This episode was recorded prior to the sag After strike.
Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with Higheartradios and Katie Wos.
I wish they would have hot dogs at premieres. I'm always like, oh, you know, hot dogs. It just have popcorn and so or water.
Stak gass hot dog with everyone stresses and fancy ass clothes.
And you're like stuff in your mouth with popcorn.
Oh, I've never eaten so much popcorn in my entire life. My mouth is so shrended today, and I'm so hungover when I'm sick or hungover, and I have a regular Coca Cola, like this is the most delicious thing the planet.
Especially like a Mexican coke.
Yes, yeah, my mouth is watering my kid sometimes if it's special and like Mommy and Daddy having cocktails. I make him like a mocktail. Oh yeah, and it's like specially. I make him like ice water. I mean ice ginger ale, some sprite and then it splash of grenadine and a cherry.
It's like Temple. Yeah, I used to love Shirley Temples.
What origin story of why a Shirley Temple is Temple?
Can we look this up right?
Idea?
Look, the drink was named after iconic child actress Shirley Temple. Legend has it that when she was out to dinner at a nice restaurant with her parents and other Hollywood types who were all enjoying cocktails, the bartends and made her a special alcoholic drink so she could feel fancy too, which is what I do for my kids. Yeah, I feel bad because it has soda in it, and I really don't let my kids have soda. So it's like once in a while.
Yeah, it's a little treat, a treat.
Yeah, it's a little it's a little treat. Well, today's exciting. This is a very exciting episode for so many reasons, you guys.
Like people have no idea, who the fuck is about to come on?
Yeah? Who the fuck is about to come on?
A BOS?
But also it's like my favorite number. We're talking about episode two two two.
Yeah, since the last episode of season.
Two, last episode of season two, and there was only one person that we could even remotely like, it was so clear who the guests should be for this episode. It was it was not not a competition, it was not not an argument like, there's only one person we could bring our gladiators today, am I right?
Gie?
And we were lucky enough that he said yes, and he's here.
He's here today, and you might know him for the plethora of work of oh my god, of acting performances that this person has delivered throughout that.
Can I just rattle off a few of his credits right quick and see if people might guess? So he made his Broadway debut and hair. He was nominated for Tony in nineteen seventy four for Raisin in the Sun. He was check these credits out, mash Sanford and Son, what's happening? The brother from another Planet? Who's the boss?
Justice League? A different world? Speed one and two? And most recently, God friended me, Oh my god, he is and of course wait wait wait, but of course the fucking Terminator to Judgment Date, which is one of the best movies. It's better than the original ever.
I mean this actor. When he started coming around, we were like, I mean, I think Kerry Washington gets starstruck never and I'll never forget him coming to our first scandal table read because she was full loor. Yeah, he is the one and only people. He is. There is no other. He is all scandal. He is our king, He is the one. He is the only Opa Pope.
Y'all.
Joe, what hello, Joe Martin? How are you, good man? How are you?
I'm doing great?
Jo Morton, Oh my god, thank you so so much for doing this with us?
Are you kidd And I would have not What am I gonna do?
We just did like the biggest drum roll and g was talking through your credits.
First of all, Hi, Hello, we missed you man. It's been forever.
It has been forever.
Listen to that voice. It is like voice. I mean, if he could just break into a popa pope monologue right now, I could the lines that have stuck in my head of I am the hell and high Water.
Yes, I would veno you money right now if you did that.
You couldn't afford it.
I couldn't afford it.
I know.
It's like three hundred and fifty bucks. Like strike, y'all, Yeah, we're on strike. Joe has not aged ever, Like, what in the actual hell is going on? I don't understand this.
I mean, well, I keep telling everybody I have this painting in my.
As like when I wrote Scandal from ten years ago. I you know, me and g look very different. You look exactly the same every episode.
God, no, you have not changed. And the only thing different about Yoma was the beard.
Yeah, it's very true, very very true. Wait, Joe, can you tell us how in the heck this came to be? Because I don't even think I really know this story. I don't want either here how you got the part, and also that you were acting with all of us for months, I mean not me, I didn't realize need to do in Gida neither. But and you knew who your character was. We know. Tell us how the part happened?
All right?
So I came out to La. It was a pilot season, so I was looking for a gig, and I went out specifically looking for a very smart bad guy. Since most of my career I purposely have been playing good guys. So I get to California. I opened up my computer and I had not yet seen Scandal. I knew about Carrie, I knew about Scandal, I hadn't seen it. So I turned it on, watched the first season and thought, oh my god, this is a great show. So I thought to call my agent and said listen, could you, you know,
let's get ahold of ABC. Let's see if we can get like a you know, a six episode arc or whatever.
Before I made that call, O man, before I.
Made that call, my agents called me and said, ABC wants to talk to you about Scandal. What I thought, Oh my god. All right, so I forget which producer was called me on the phone. We started talking about the show, and he said, so, what's going to happen is if you decide to take this gig, is that the very last episode of season two will make it clear, by the very last lines of that episode that you are Carrie's dad. I said, you got, I'm in. He said,
but you cannot tell anybody. You can't tell anyone. You can't tell anyone. So, I mean, after I got the gig, I really thought I was going to just kind of end that season. I actually I had actually made plans to go back, come back to New York and do Romeo and Juliet on Broke. I was supposed to play
Juliet's dad. So we start, you know, shooting the show, and Carrie used to I'm up to it all the time, and said, you know, I've never called I mean, I've never called my parents and said, you know so and so was on the show.
He said, You're the first person I've ever done that with. She said, so, I just hope we have some scenes together.
Oh my god, that is Hilaierus cannot even Carrie knew carried it no either, No.
Tom knew.
Obviously, Seanda and Betsy knew, but they were the only ones who knew. And so at one point Scott and I started to become really good friends. And I told him about going to Broadway and said, so, when you're done, you're going to go back to Broadway And said, well, maybe not.
I think something.
More interesting has come up. And he said, I said, but I can't tell you what it is. So and he, you know, being Scott, didn't pursue you just left it alone.
And of course by the time we got there. But the time we got to that last do you remember the table?
Oh talk about it all the time.
Carrie doesn't know, and she says, Dad, in my head, in my memory of it, And of course I don't know. Did she like jump up and start running around the table, like what happened? How did everyone errupt?
I remember all I remembers everybody started screaming. Everybody started screaming. I don't know that she she may have run around the table or maybe given me a hug or whatever. I don't remember.
I really somebody has to have that on tape, right, I'm sure I'm sure there were several people taping that table.
Read we got to get our hands on somebody. Yeah, Betsy may may have something on tape. I mean, I'm sure we have the footage of the fox read yes, yes, yes, sag but but yeah, that's that's how that all happened.
Wow. And the first when we first see you all of season two, like did you ever ask? Like who? Because right now we've been recording all the episodes of season two and it's always like Joe Morton as mysterious man credit, like and did you know?
No? The credit was? I forget what they called me. I think they oh, well, they probably used.
Out is it Albatros?
No?
Right?
Albatross was somebody else?
Because all I remember, really, all I did before we got to the very end was sit on the bed and hand Yeah. If older supposed to Jeff, go kill this person, go kill And that's really all I did. But knowing what was coming. So when we finally got to shoot that scene at the end of season two, we shot it several different ways because neither Carrie or I knew what our relationship was.
We didn't know.
Whether we were estranged, whether he had been in contact with one another.
We had no idea what was going on.
And so Tom, who directed that episode, you know, we shot different kinds of ways and obviously led it up to Tom and Shonda and the editor to figure out what this was all about.
That's right. I remember carry being like the one word dad, Like how many different variations you can be? Like do we love each other? Or am I pissed to see him? Am I sad to see him?
How long has it been since I've seen him?
All?
Exactly?
Oh my god. So then we've talked about this, I think a number of times on this podcast, but we need to talk about it with you, so we I don't know, was it the sag After? Where was this huge public reading of this thing?
That was that sag after at that theater?
And it was the same day that episode was going to play, because remember we all sat in the and we watched it.
Play in New York.
That's great, and I don't know how they did it, but they managed to keep I guess people were not watching it on their phones whatever in the audience. And so when we came out to do the phone reading and that moment came up at the end of the script, the audience did exactly what we all.
Did at The audience leaped to its feet, screamed and hollered.
And I remember who screamed and hollered the loudest.
Do you remember who that was?
I think I know was it was it DA or the initials DA?
Absolutely, absolutely absolutely she screamed the lad.
She did.
I remember. I remember seeing staff members in the back of the theater cheering and coming out to see the last little bit of that table read, and they were so excited too, and there were people that were working there in the theater. It was mayhem.
It was just like collective goosebumps. Right now talking about it, she says, Dad, the whole audience erupts into screams and to their feet, and then we are like screaming back at them. And I just remember, like it was just like, yeah, two minutes, which is a very long time of just like screaming and clapping and shock and it was just like, I don't think anyone everyone I know who's even in the audience that night, doesn't forget that moment. It was
so wild. Wait, have you'd worked with Debbie Allen a million times before? Right?
Well we met well, gosh, nineteen seventy three. Well, when we first met, she was in Raising.
Yeah, oh that's right, and she was in the chorus, but she was the understudy for Beneath It. By the time we got to New York, she was playing the part of beneath It. So we go back that far nineteen seventy three.
Oh my god, you were nominated for a Tony for that play, right.
I was, yes, the one, the only Joe Morden. Okay, so Joe, now we know you're her dad. And the part develops how it developed, which is just I mean, top five most amazing written. What a gift an actor gets to play a part like this, I mean on television, it's just so wild.
Oh.
Absolutely, When you look back at all the seasons, are there things that stick out of like favorite scenes or favorite lines that you just really looked around and were like, this is this is a rare thing.
There were so many things, I mean, obviously that first episode of season three, which I always call my audition because if you remember now, they all at the end of season two, all I did was, as I said, sit on a bench, hand out folders and say go kill this person that person. And then suddenly at the end of season two she says, you know, I say hello, and she says hi, Dad, everybody goes crazy. So the first episode of season three, I have a two and
a half page monologue. Oh that's where that no, that's where that hell and the high water comes from monologue, because we continue on we're in the car. We're in the car, and we drive to the airport, we get out of the car, and that's when I do that that speech.
So when I got that speech, first of all, I was I can't tell you so.
Over the moon about the show and about what she had written. I mean, I'd done a lot of television by that point, and no one had ever written a.
Two and a half page monologue for me to do.
And then that whole thing we mapped out of walking around her and then walking her to the airplane, and the Helen high Water comes.
Out and blah blah blah blah blah. It was.
I think, of all the episodes that I did, I'll never forget that particular.
It was amazing.
There's a point where you get down low, like, you get like down under her like sort.
Of well she puts, she gets, she gets sheepish, right, and and that's what I'm saying.
Don't look at me.
Yes, well, let's know it's it's I want to make sure you understand exactly.
What I'm taking.
Guys.
We're getting an acting class right here, right now. Scandal got down low, down low. What Joe Morton gets to do? I don't know if I Oh my god, you never saw the episode, so of course I did. I just don't. We haven't done season three yet, so we just have only rewatched seasons one and two.
The only reason I remembering my memory is because I was watching the last episode again for like the fifth time, and then episode the first episode of season three came on and I got so into it I couldn't turn it off. And then I saw that scene.
Brilliant this, like, I think, what was so cool about Papa Pope? First of all, for everyone listening, monologues don't exist.
Very much on televigience right, No TV.
No, there's just I don't know, but it's not a thing. And it was a thing on Scandal, but it was really a thing for popa pope. But your cadence and rhythm was so different than let's say mine, If I got a monologue, it was like, let's just fly by the seat of our pants and talk as fast as you can, and you do Scandal pace for listeners who speak really quickly, but you also had your own popu pope thing, Like, how did you Was that intentional? Did it just occur?
It's definitely intentional what I thought I was seeing, and I believe I was seeing in those monologues, but very specific rhythms.
She would write very specific rhythms in a very specific way. So what I thought was, well, this is a lot like doing Shakespeare. So that's what I decided to do.
I thought I'd do have a classical play whenever he got into his monologues.
And it's something now I've had to.
Yeah, we talk about that.
All the time.
It's like everyone says to me on every job I've booked since, like you can slow down.
No one can understand it, not even it's not even the pace, it's it's that it's that kind of rhythm. I did it on our kind of people. And who was it that Mars Chestnut said to me said, why do you Why do you do it that way?
I realized I'm doing I'm doing game.
We all had to kind of unlearn, like you have to learn the Popa Pope. I had to unlearn the like, oh my god, I talk really really fast and I never ever ever pause and I don't ever let there be a beat. And I feel like with hawk gear that crazy.
I had a specific sort of cadence too, like a very.
Like you definitely speaking definitely did oh my gosh, wait, what is popa Pope's whole name again?
Eli?
Oh my god?
Or command command Rowan God Rowan?
How about Maia Pope? We gotta talk to it and you figured it out like this is gonna be your wife, like that whole fucking relationship was unbelievable.
Well, Shanna said that she was gonna, you know, bring his wife on. So then we talked a couple of times about.
Who I mean, I wanted, you know, Flicia Rashad because I'm thinking she's going to be the same kind of crazy that that that Rowan is and then she brings Candy on, who is a different kind of crazy altogether, and it just works perfectly because she's so oppressed with She's beautiful and she's wiry, and she's you know, she's all that stuff, and it worked perfectly.
And then and then she wrote for us, I guess I kidnap her.
I'm trying to, but I have her in like a hospital situation undercapture, and you see us for a moment, come together.
I think the episode after that, I put her back in prison.
Right, you guys didn't, Yeah, you didn't have very many scenes together together, right, we did not?
Yeah?
No, you know what, Germo and I I think maybe we could be as good of actors as Joe Morton if we We talk a lot on this podcast about how much food and eating Garmo and I did at the craft service table. And I always think about how Joe is so disciplined.
Oh yeah, you've talked about it on the podcast.
Like you're so disciplined, And I think about you when I'm on set, like I think about because one time I said, well, what do you do? Like what's your behavior on set? And we started having like a lot of heavy scenes together in really long days. You would say like, oh, you know, I'm really careful, Like you would snack, but you wouldn't have huge meals because you're like,
I don't want all the my entered. You know how sometimes you have a big meal and then you just want to take a fucking nap, and yet you still got to shoot for twelve hours, you know, yeah, slump. And so you were so disciplined and great about like keeping your energy up and like all of that, whereas Gemo and I are just like, oh yeah, we're just going to have like a full Thanksgiving.
You know.
But that's also that's also the difference between I mean, how old was I when we were doing How long ago were we all working together?
And in two eighteen was set. The last we shot in March of twenty eighteen was when we went to DC, so that was.
Five years ago. Yeah yeah, okay, so you have to remember so for the for the what uh how old were you guys? Oh my god?
I yes, I was like thirty seven. So you're saying us youngins we could have a Thanksgiving feast, whereas like.
You could, I could not no, not no more.
I mean, but for me, you know, it's obviously it's an individual thing. For me, it was if I ate a large lunch, I was out for the cab for the rest, for the rest of the day. So I learned that and I thought, all right, so you know, I can have a piece of fruit here, a piece of fruit there, of small lunch and then and I can I can go all day long. You know.
Well, well, I'm impressed and at Germo and I when we're still doing this podcast in forty years and we book a job, I'm gonna be like, still not as good as Joe Morton. I'm still We will be back with more after the break. Today we are talking about episode two twenty two, called White Hats Back On, which aired on May sixteenth in twenty thirteen, ten years.
Ago years ago.
Oh My Gosh was written by the Shonda Rhimes and directed by Tom Verica.
And it was guest starring Scott Foley as Jake Ballard, Matt Lesher as Billy Chambers, Dan Bukatinski is James Novak, Joe Morton as Eli Pope. We've been reading you as a mysterious man every episode, and then Tom and Mandy is is Governor Samuel Restin, Kate.
Burton is Sally Langston, Greg Henry as Hollis Doyle, Georgian Nuburn as Charlie, Charmila Davar is Lauren Wellman, and Christy Myers as B six thirteen Female Operative.
And we're just gonna take you through a quick, quick synopsis, like real quick about jog all y'all gladiator's memories of what was going on in scandal pace Ready.
Gee Yeah.
With the news that Billy Chambers is the mole, the Hollis Melly Olivia Cyrus brain Trust brings in its newest member Fits as they try to finally put an end to defiance.
Meanwhile, Fitz demands that he and Olivia be together as he runs for second term, and Olivia comes up with a brilliant way to fix the image for him. As long as things work.
Out, Governor Resin reservices with blackmail against Fits to get onto the VP ticket, and the OPA team, with a focus on Hugg and Quinn track down Billy Chambers. Quinn takes her first spin with torture, and Abby finally puts it all together. David Rosen has the card just a light little plot twists mind their hugely chalk filled episode, like absolutely freaking massive. Gee, I mean obviously the scenes. I mean, we're gonna talk a little bit, Joe about
the actual episode. This is the first episode that Quinn really tortures somebody.
Oh man, that's right.
I barely even remember doing it. But do we get Billy Chambers on the tarp and Huck can't do it? Right?
Huck, Yeah, a sort of has a mental and emotional breakdown and he just can't do it with the drill in his hand, and Quinn sort of, you know, tries to console him, and she's like, it's okay, and then she takes the drill from his hand and she looks down and she's like, I'm gonna fucking torture this guy, and she tortures him. You do it so brilliantly, and then that blood spatter on your face. I still as you're.
Spatter on my face. It was so fun.
Joe.
Did you ever have to torture anyone on the show? Did you ever torture anyone? And I don't remember I torture anyone. I mean I remember, as Huck feeling tortured whenever I had scenes with you, because I knew how was you were command.
I think probably the closest I came to torturing anybody was Scott was Scott's.
Character, right, Oh but that but that was more more mental.
It wasn't physical. I don't think I've ever I mean, I think I always told, you know, go out and do something. You're the one who kills everybody on the.
Bus, that's right. Oh my god, Joe, I forgot about that.
Yeah, so I did a lot of that. I think the only I only killed two people myself.
That was my ex girlfriend and and U Joe girlfriend.
Remember she came on They were using her to get information from me.
Uh and they said, you know she's so she becomes like a vulnerability and in the middle of the scene, I pull out a.
Gun and I just shoot her in the head.
Oh my god.
We had been lovers when we were much younger. We went on digs together. That's after I get the giant dinosaur.
She comes in.
We are the flame is kind of restored, and there's a moment which I literally seduce her into a closet and pull out a gun, threaten threaten her.
Threaten her by saying, you know, you need to tell me what's going on. Who hired you? Blah blah blah blah.
I find out remember that guy who was setting up he was he was blowing things up all across the country.
Remember that character, right, Yes, yes.
It's that same guy. So he's the one who set her up against me.
He then we the three of us haven't seen together, and he makes it clear that she will always be of vulnerability in my life for the rest.
Of my right. As soon as he says, I they got my gun and shooter.
Hey, you did shoot her.
It was Tanya Pinkins who played the part.
Oh I was Oh my god, yes, from All My Children. She used to be on All My Children, which, looking at your credit, Joe, you did one episode of All My Children, didn't you.
I did Another World, Yes, Another World World, And then I did.
Because uh, Ruben Santiago had a character in one of the other on one of the other soaps.
He had to go off to do something.
They asked me to take his place. That's the other soap I worked on. I mean, this is we're talking about.
Yeah, sad soaps too. Gee, did you ever do soaps?
No?
I never did a soap. I auditioned for them all the time, but I never did it.
Were so fun, like so fun crazy.
There was a time in which the first soape I did, I was actually doing Raisin in Washington, d C. So that meant I was doing the show at night.
Or are you hitting me?
I did that a lot. I did that kind of thing a lot.
Wow, God, Joe, what is anyone's favorite scenes of this episode? First of all, we finally get that Cyrus has had a heart attack, because there is no way that this character can exist at the level of steam coming out of his ears for this many hours and not wind up in an ambulance. Right, Oh my god.
And that's well, that brings us to one of my favorite scenes is the scene when Cyrus is in the ambulance. Oh, it's amazing, and he's being so like, he's just being crazy. He's out of his mind. He even asked the one guy give me your gun, I'll shoot him, Like he's just flipping out. And he's on the phone with Fits and Olivia.
You in an ambulance, yeah, and he's like yeah, whatever. It's so so so funny. We also get the end of like Jake and Olivia, you know, like that they have a beautiful storyline where Olivia is saying goodbye to Jake and that she's really choosing Fits, and but they did have something, and Jake knows that he's going to go be put in the frickin' hole. Oh my god, it's awful and it's so good.
What else, g oh my god. Well, of course the torture scene, when you torture. Oh well. And one of my one of the scenes that's really stuck out is the one where Fits and Melli have a scene together. Yes, and she's like, come, let's go, honey, we're back together, like you know this is going to work, and he's like, no, it's not. And Olivia has has come up with a brilliant plan for fixing an image. Yes, yes, yes, and and and Tony Goldwin has this wonderful monologue and it's just it's so great.
It's so good.
This is why this show was so great. It's never ever what you expect. It is never what you expect. I mean the end of this episode when we get Fits going back to Mellie and laying his head.
On her map, because of my favorite moment, it is.
No man's land. I mean, he knows that Jake and Olivia we're sleeping together, now he knows that his he was never meant to be president of the United States. He is a freakin' pawn. He's a pretty boy pawn who is lost on an island with nobody, and so he goes back to Melly and puts his sad sack of a head like interlap, and it's just like Tony's got the He's got that like one. He's so good at it, like I don't think I've ever played that sort of a color, and he's really good at it.
Is I think a lot of his career has been that.
I mean, you know, if you go all the way back to the Whoopi Goldberg film, yeah, you know, he plays the bad guy in that, but there there is that moment of kind of oh, you know.
Yes, I don't he's great at it. My god, he's really really great at it. Had you two ever worked together before we did?
We did some small film in New York and that's been I think that's the first time we met. It was one of the first times, because I think we met up at Williamstown once before. But in this little film, we had a couple of little scenes together.
I don't really remember it, but but.
Yeah, Joe, do you remember that scene you had with Tony I to remember what episode it was. Wasn't he like in a chair and you like call him white boy?
Oh that's the that's the boys scene, the boy?
Yes, yes, what is that again?
That episode was called the door marked Exit, because that's what that speech was about. Is that one of the reason you're with her and the only reason you're trying to push my buttons with her is because for you, she is a door marked exit. You think that you
can just walk out anytime you feel like it. And so that whole speech was, you know, your your daddy's rich and the mom's good looking, because you are a what was his last name, Fitzgerald Grant, You are a grand But it's that whole speech was putting him down. I mean talking about memorable moments for a block. I was the one who was the one in the chair.
I was in you were in the chair.
I was in the chair. I was in my undershirt and peopled to the chair. I'm and I'm you know, just reading him up and down.
What a little nothing like a little rich boy, a little rich baby boy that can't be a isn't a man?
And then that Christmas, I sent him a like a bag. It looked like a bowling bag, but honor it, said, I didn't write it.
This is how I found.
It was a bag, but that big a bowling bag, said boy who for Christmas wrapped it up and sent it to him.
Oh my god, that's freaking hilarous' amazing, that's so crazy And also like what am I mean? Tony's not like that at all, But like I always think it's really wild that our president and vice president on this show are Hollywood royalty. Like we had Betsy Beers on for episode two twenty one and she was saying, like, you know, talking about the old studios or whatever, and You're like, yeah, remember Metro Goldwyn Mayor, I mean that is yeah, I
mean Goldwyn he is Hollywood Royalty. And then our voice president, our vice president being played by Kate Burton, who's Richard Burton's daughter, who was like, I mean, it was like the two of them were totally you know, historical, just like you.
I had a conversation because.
I was offered to direct a film that was a black version of Eat, Drink Love, uh, and his father would have been the producer, So I actually got a chance. I brought it up to Tony said, do you remember He said, I kind of remember my dad talking about it because I figured there was another director was supposed to do it, and he passed it on to me. I met with Tony's dad, so yes, I can actually say I had with mister Goldman.
That's unbelievable. One of my favorite all time memories of my life. Of my life, I had my first baby. I was coming back to work for the first time in an episode that Kerrie Washington was directing Is. I felt very supported shand the land carry directing. You know, a mom and I've been kidnapped in Papa Pope's house in the basement and were oddly and sort of beautifully
like raising this baby together. Yes, And we got to dance to a Britney Spears song and they called in Debbie Allen to do a favor and just do a little choreography rehearsal with me and Joe and I'm holding in the in the shot, I was going to be holding Quinn's baby and doing this like hit me baby one more time choreography with Joe and they and they were and I was like, well, my son is here and they were like, well, you can just bring him
and Debbie I was like, I can, that's allowed. Debbie was like, yeah, bring him to the rehearsal, hold him like you're going to be holding the real baby. And I had such an out of body moment where I'm like, I'm dancing to Britney Spears with my firstborn child on a hit television show with Joe Morton, studying choreography with
Debbie Allen, and I have a videotape, Adam. I made Adam like videotape it just so that I could have it forever, because yes, nice when it comes out, it is the most like I just was like, I am the luckiest like to get to work with you, to get to work with Debbie Allen in such a like absolute, like obscure, an amazing thing holding my kid where I was sort of transitioning into this like new identity of being a mom while still being an actress. I just like,
it's one of those memories I'll take with me for forever. God, we had some crazy shit to do. I have a memory of like I had to throw a chain around your neck. I think I don't even know well that that whole episode.
Right, you're down the basement, and then I'd make I make Kerry believe that I've killed you. Yes, yes, yes, all that takes place in the basement. That was That was a wild episode.
Seanda wrote it. It was so so so wild. Oh my god, we're gonna have to have you back on when we get there.
You know why. It's making me think about it, but it makes me think of that episode that Gamo did.
What you girlfriend tries to drown.
You or yes, yes, yes, she puts me in the trunk of a car and pushes it off a cliff. Yeah, another crazy episode. One of the memories that sticks out is Joe and I were in an episode together and we were doing a lot of stuff together, hucking and rowan, and we were, you know, in our chairs waiting for them to set up the shot, and I was talking about I had just bought my house or I hadn't just buy a butt it like a year ago. But we just put in a pool and I was like, Joe,
I have this pool in my house. But I feel almost like I don't know, I can't. I feel guilty, like I feel like I don't deserve it. So I don't go in it.
In that pool for like a year. That's how mad deserve it.
Joe was sitting at his chair reading his book. You know, he had a close because he was listening to me and he and I said, so, Joe, I just don't know, man, I just I feel guilt. I don't know if I deserve the pool. And he looked at me and see, he said, did you pay for that pool? And I said yeah, and he said get in the pool.
And that was it.
Do you remember? And I was like, you're right, you're right, You're right, And now I get in the pool all the time.
It's funny about stuff like that, how you know your life changes and you think kind of like I don't deserve.
To have this. I don't deserve to be part of this. Yeah, but you know you worked hard to get there.
Yeah, you know you're not there by mistake, by chance, you know you when you you know, I mean, I think one of my music partners we're talking about something that you know, when I got nominated for an Emmitt, you know, your tendency is to almost distance yourself from that, yes, because it feels like it's too much. It's like, oh oh, that's great. And I kept saying, but you know, having a nomination was just enough. It was fine, blah blah blah. So that when they announced my name at the it
was like took me a second. Jane Lynch because I remember her face. She had no idea who I was, she said, and Joe Morton like she was shocked.
I was shocked. But I think what happens is you you you distance yourself so that if something goes.
Wrong, if something yes, you're not able to fulfill where you are, You're not that disappointed.
So true, that's what happens.
Such a great point.
We'll be right back, guys.
Okay, back to this episode really quick. So we find out what did David Rosen do with the Citron card. The amount of shenanigans that this Citron card has has has caused, and so I mean it is the only logistical, concrete evidence that the freaking election election, but the Citron card. We find out that David Rosen has neurotically put in fifty thousand combinations of what the safe could be in Olivia Pope's office to break in and get the card. Yes, and he in turn gives it.
To Billy Chambers, who gives it to But.
Then finally at the end of the episode, it is given to Cyrus, and Cyrus at his desk takes us a paperweight of Lincoln and smashes it ship out of this card and we can finally put any evidence that the election was ever rigged down the drain right.
Yes, yes, in the real world, which they could do that.
I mean, isn't it weird? God, the Shonda Land the scandal, like secretly kind of weirdly knowing what was going on was very weird.
I mean that's you know, that's a question to you guys get a lot as well as what did we end when we did? And I always think it's because of the actual election that Chanda thought, you know what, I'm done. Yeah, that that Bellamy was supposed to take over, was was going to become president once again, and then that's where the show was going to go.
And then once mister t got yeah elected, I think she was done. I mean that's yeah, that was my feeling.
What was crazier in real life than on our show, Like shit became crazier in real life. It's nuts, absolutely, Yeah, even now to watch to watch old episodes and they're talking about scandals that happened to you know, senators or whatever on our show, and I think that's nothing like way worse is happening with politicians in our world right now, and people are like, Okay, cool, yeah, let's make them president, no worries. It's it's nuts. Yeah.
I feel the same way, Joe. I think there was like some article about other political shows that were on at the time, like Veep, like our show, and they were all sort of saying, like, when the lights are on in Washington, it's very wonderful to have a political show, like you know, the years that West Wing was on, and then as soon as the as soon as there's sort of a darkness over DC and it's very very you know, divisive, and times are tough. It's very hard
to keep writing a political show and making one. Oh wait, I just read this fun facts talking about that safe. Abby states that there are twenty thousand, seven hundred and thirty six possible safe combinations. But later, when David is shown accessing the safe, he is only able to enter four digits zero to nine, which means that they're actually only ten thousand combinations that he would have tried.
Who the hell thought, who the hell came up with this fun fact?
That was?
That wasn't even fun?
No fun, it's the funnest the funds.
I love it.
This is the other fun fact. Given the broken chain of custody and how easy the sytron card is to hack it realistically, wouldn't have been proof of anything at all, should it have? Actually time to light btw tweets of the time and before we read some of these, Joe, you definitely joined Twitter for this show, and you definitely had quite the Twitter persona.
He did so great.
Yeah, no, that was fun.
I mean I hadn't done any social media before then, and then when I joined the show, and then I found out, you know, you don't have to do it, but you could do it if it's fun.
So then Christina and I just decided that what we would do for Sine is my partner.
For those of you who don't know, she's the best, she is the best.
So we decided we would get go as far into it as we could. Tony actually walked out to me one day he said, so, all that stuff you say about me and you just it's just fun.
I said, yeah, Tony, I like you, but I'm not.
Because everybody listening. It was kind of like like a pop up hope. It's like you were tweeting as if you were pop up hope.
A lot of the times I was tweeting in character.
It was awesome and I can't believe you could do that.
It was so.
Well, it made it more fun that way.
That way, yeah, you know exactly, the personally, this.
Is so amazing, Like some of these tweets are the times absolutely kill me? We have at Sweet and Lovely two two nine retweeted, what the fuck Billy Chambers is the male and David is his male? Oh my fucking god, hashtag.
Scandal this dude's betto metro Dos tweeted if Scandal, if the Scandal story arc was anywhere near to Olivia, Pope would be dead in jail or on Fox News covering the New Black Panthers. Oh shit, hashtag hardball.
Wow man, she would she would be the new Oprah.
She would right, yeah, hell yeah, I agree, she would be the new Oprah. At Funkydneva, oh yeah, who used to tweet all the time. I felt so bad for James. I was distraught for a men after that scene. Miss Cyrus is a beast hashtag scandal, which is true? How James and Cyrus? How he ever stayed with him? Cyrus was a terrible husband to him?
Absolutely right, okay. Miss Funky Daneva also tweeted Quinn needs to step up her fashions next season, Hunty, I'm over her, and this I'm over her and this Lauren Hill tax evasion realness, she is serving.
It's so true. I agree with you, Miss funky Geneva, who's also like rolling on these fucking amazing tweets at Miss Funky Geneva also tweeted, Scandal writer season three, can Harrison have a love interest so we can get some shirtless scenes man or woman? Hine hashtag scandal and.
Then moful Chronicles tweeted, I volunteer to be Harrison's love interest hashtag scandal.
That's so funny. Oh this is so cute at real. Queen bees Hx tweeted, got my hashtag high mug from at scandal obsessed on the perfect Day. I can't wait to drink out of it tonight. That was so cute. I remember that was a major because you know, Tony and Carrie always had those scenes where they just said hi, to each other.
Yeah, that's where the cup came from.
And so it became a hashtag because.
They would give themselves a minute, right.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, okay at Drea E. Hall tweeted, you can't trust anyone anymore hashtag scandle has me shook lol. So true, so true, trust bodies so true.
These are so great.
Right.
I did want to ask you Joe about this amazing show that Joe worked on. I'm not sure if you guys are still doing it called Inside the Black Box.
Oh, we are still doing that absolutely.
Can you talk a little bit about that?
Absolutely?
Inside the Black Box it's basically a show that brings on a list of black actors to talk about what he means to be an actor of color, an artist of color. And we have We've had Felicia m We've had Debbie on yes right on the show.
We've had just a whole bunch of people.
It's so good.
Forty to sixty actors who are on camera. So what we do is we then do either theater games or improvs or whatever. Yes, it gives them a chance to showcase their talents and to that to that effect, four or five of them have now agents have gotten jobs and how yeah, we are beginning to become a destination for casting agents looking for young black actors.
This is like inside the studio.
It's it's it's it's the same idea.
The difference is we are not in a prosceni and we actually are in a black box and we are more or less.
Surrounded by these actors.
And as I say again, different from the actors studio, we actually give them a chance to show fast their talents, which is kind of key to our show.
We want to you know, you know they talk.
About Disney actors all the time. One day in the future they'll be talking about it tv B.
Hell yeah, I saw clip Joe and there you guys. They're interviewing this lovely actor, this this awesome dude, and he's like, forget the actors studio, man, I'm here with you guys. And I thought, hell yeah, this is so groundbreaking.
I want to letters it BB it t BB inside the black Box. That is awesome.
And here's another just a fact about it inside the black Box.
So at the end of season one, which I think happened around my birthday, we finished the show. We finished our last episode. We only shoot ten a year and suddenly our students breakout and song. That song became our theme song for the show. Way they started singing the song, I ran back to the producers and I said, wait to record it. So my partners and I, you know, put our studio together, brought them out to New Jersey.
He created what happened in the studio that day.
And so when you go on to the show, that theme song that you hear is sung by me, my partners, and a couple of the students. That it was written by four of them.
That's such a great story.
YO.
For those of you who don't know, Joe is also an amazing musician. Yes, he's right. Talk about that a little bit, Joe, Like, what have you been doing for years?
Years and years? I've you know, been playing or whatever.
And so during all that crazy time when mister T was in the White House, my partner Kenny Leman and I wrote a piece called Wake Up America.
Which is basically I remember that, yeah, it's.
Not Republican, it's not democratic, but it basically is talking about the importance of unity and that it's you know, it's it's it's not us, or then it's us.
The United States, so you can find that on YouTube.
Come on, Joe Morton. He is a legend, He is the goat, he is the greatest of all time. He is a friend, He is wonderful, and he is forever and ever and will be our Papa Pope, yes and only.
And just to put this out there, there is something else that Katie and I are kind of working on. We can't really talk about it.
Working on that. We hope will will happen in fuy.
We hope working together very closely on something that would make everyone very happy, mostly me.
This so much more, guys, Guys.
Next up episode three oh one, It's handled. We will finally get to see this amazing hell or high water getting down from the one and only pop U Pope and so much more coming up next. Thank you Gladiators so much for an incredible first season of Unpacking the Toolbox.
Thank you, guys. We're so happy. Was having so much fun doing this.
Oh my god, Joe, thank you for wrapping up episode two two two and the season finale of season two with the most iconic dad moment that might go down in history, is the most iconic and scandal all of the episodes, any more still to uncover. Thank you for being on g Thank you man.
I love you, guys, you guys, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Guys.
Come back and listen to the next season, y'all.
Yeah, come back. We love you. We couldn't do this without you. Having a fucking blast.
We're having such a good time.
For another season so that I can learn better.
We're gonna learn how to say it in Spanish. I bet Joe can probably say you don't you speak a little bit of Spanish?
Joe, Adam, I mean, I'll be I mean, what's your name, Germo? If you could joice memo my mom.
Raido, Manny Girmo, like she says all her kids names.
Memo me how to say it so I can. I will than absolutely absolutely is not my fault.
Unpacking the Toolbox, y'all.
We love you. Joe Morton, Thank you, Glad.
Thanks Joe, love you, Joe. Thank you guys for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate, or leave us.
A Room Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alcea, Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is Vince de Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher. Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.