221: Any Questions? w/ Betsy Beers

This episode was recorded prior to the SAG After Strike.

Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with Iheartradiots.

And Katie Tho.

I'm watching the episode that we're talking about today, and I'm like, do you remember conversation Shonda would have where it's like they would give such shit about sexual stuff on the show, but like violence or death was like fair game?

Did it matter? Yeah?

And I'm just like refreshing myself on the end of season two, which is where we're currently at. There's just guns held at people's heads.

All the time, ye constantly.

Yeah, motherfuckers are eating donuts right before they were about to get shot.

Abby's holding a gun.

I'm holding a gun, and Charlie's holding a gun at David Rosen, and then Jake Ballard has a gun because he's about to take down Charlie. It's just like Rice, why don't we And Adam Adam just did like the top gun thing. He just did John Wick prequel series, which is literally gun porn. It's like, how many fucking things can we fucking light up?

Yeah?

What is that?

I haven't seen any of the John Wicks, but I hear there's somebody just went to see it a friend of mine and said it was super violent. And it's like one of the most popular franchises. Right, there's like what five part five now or four?

I don't even know.

Fast and the Furious. I have no idea what's going on. I've never seen You're right, it's like porn yea. And my son is like obsessed. He is, but yeah, he just is like, you know, I want swords, I.

Want I want shields.

Everything is good guy, bad guy. Did you play like that when you were a little kid or no?

No, I played with like a Donald Duck doll that you would press his hands and he would walk, his legs would move. You would press his right hand and his left leg would move. Typical fucking gay shit. Like I loved all the dolls. I loved all the superhero dolls and Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck all that stuff.

Have you been in real fights in your life?

Just like two? But I don't like it, and I'm not good at it at all.

I'm not I get very scared, like I'll defend myself, but I'm still super I don't like it.

I don't like it like did you get ever get hit or hit someone in the face, like when you were a kid growing up.

I've never done that.

I did once I did. I hit someone in the face, and I've been hitting the face.

Yeah.

Was it terrible.

Yeah, it was almost like I blacked out. Like afterwards, I was like, I don't even remember doing that. It was just like a reflex to Yeah, you know, I was just being.

Protect yourself with fight or flight, like you went into like animalistic mode.

But then it stopped. It didn't. It was like a continued fight.

I would have friends that would be fighting on the street for like fifteen minutes, like taking their shirts off, like let's go, like taking you know, their shoes off.

I was like, what are you people doing?

Like, oh my god.

I remember in high school the girls fighting like way worse than the guys. The girls like fucking ripping their out and fucking dreads and shit out of their hair.

Bad bad like black girls. I mean, I said, I blacked out, but girls black the fuck out.

They don't care. You can't pull them apart O.

Can this like not happen to my kids?

No?

Fighting, fighting is bad, Yeah.

But they're still fucking doing it. I think they are.

Well, and then you know, we're brought up, especially boys, being like, fuck, you gotta fight, defend yourself, you gotta learn how to fight, learn a fight, fight. You know, it becomes like this thing that you feel you need to be good at, or that it's a good thing that you could beat somebody up.

Like that's not good. It's fucking you, it's not good.

But also like why even let it get to that? And I was kind of lucky to I was sort of friends with everyone. I don't know how, but I was like a theater girl and I was on the dance team and a few things. But I think being an adult is so much harder because my anxiety. I didn't have that as a kid, and now it's worse than it's ever been, Like my real life worries everyone, kitty.

Do you ever think I think back on the times when I first started acting and doing plays and everything and having no anxiety whatsoever. I was fearless, And I think back on those times and I'm like, wow, like I wish I could feel that again, you know what I mean. And of course there's fleeting moments when you feel that way, but you're right, there's so much crap that we're dealing with.

There's just real life worries, like I didn't worry, like and look, that is such a fucking privilege, Like obviously I wasn't worried about food or like rent or like you know, because there are kids that have those fucking worries of course.

Which is awful.

And did you say food? You know?

We have to talk to Betsy about that. She we used to host the Scandal podcast.

Yes, I was thinking about that earlier.

Yeah, And I want to ask her all about like how did she first hear that that the meeting went great and like come on board?

And was she into it from the start?

And then we had to talk to her all about reading stage directions scared.

Yes, I thought about that too, yes, yes, yes, and she was.

A comedian and an actress yes in New York.

Yeah, yeah, start Betsy Beers. Yeah, I feel like always say that I love it so much.

I do not as much as I love your last name Beers, because I would love four right now?

Who wouldn't And it's totally what eleven o'clock here, Where are you? Garma? Are you? I'm in La so morning drinking, which is the.

Best, right right, because we're coming out at the time of this recording of a three day weekend.

He we just are feeling very like, whoa, we really.

Had a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday situation and our brain's not firing, probably a level that Betsy Beers.

Is no minus minus a big sleepy pile of poo. What's fun about this episode two is it's the episode before the last episode, which, like I remembered really well because we did that table.

Read yes in front of a live audience, Yeah, in.

Front of a live audience, and when we gave the last line, which I'm not going to give away for anybody who hasn't seen the show, which probably makes no sense because everybody listens to this like, gosh, I hope you've you've seen the show, but that there's that last line. And I remember, because I was doing stage directions.

We were in were we at the Doldie.

It was some scary, weird situation, big theater. It was a big theater, right, and I remember we all had to stop because the screaming. Just for anybody who doesn't know what the hell I'm talking about, I don't blame you. So we did a season finale table read. I think it was for charity.

I think it was for charity too.

Yeah, we did this table read and they were about, oh, I don't know, four or five hundred people there, and obviously the actors had already shot it, so we all knew it was yeah, yeah, yeah, which often, by the way, we didn't we don't.

Yeah.

But it was one of the most amazing experiences I've ever had because I got to the last line, which, as we all know, is Dad. None of these people had seen the episode. We literally did it right as the episode was airing. I remember we just we all just sat there and look at each other. Yeah, while people were sweating and screaming and running up and down the aisles, and it was pretty great.

It was insane.

I remember Debbie Allen jumping out of her seat like a mad woman and cheering, and I'm like, and she's in Shondaland, and even she was like, oh my.

God, yeah, she must not have known. It was so crazy. But Betsy, tell our listeners two things. One, you used to host the Scandal podcast.

It was called Scandaled Revealed, and I forced every single one of these poor actors to be on it, like eight hundred times over the course of the period of the show.

You knew before like podcasts are obviously such a thing now, But my god, Betsy, you were hosting correct if I'm wrong, was a grace.

Then we did Scandal, then we did Shondaland Revealed, and then people became tired and had to lie down, so I got out of it, and then of course it got really popular so I can do my FM.

It just means that Betsy is always at the beginning of the bell curve. She knows what's hot before everyone else knows what's hot.

For timing's so good that she gets out just when it gets hot.

Oh that is not.

The case now wait listen, but I remember everyone talking about going on the Scandal Revealed podcast, And look, Betsy is you're so famous in life and in in Shondaland for.

Just well you were an actor.

Tell us, like, yes, you're the greatest, one of the most prolific producers in all of television history.

And you were an.

Actor in a comedian, which makes you amazing at hosting pot and the best stage direction reader at a table reader that's ever existed. So tell us what you did on the podcast. Originally start there.

Okay, so on the podcast. Originally, the first podcast we did was Gray's Anatomy. I think I don't remember if it had a catchy name, except it was Shonda and me and it was like, I don't know if it was season two or season three. But we started doing this because in those days, not that many people were doing podcasts, and everybody was really excited with hers anatomy, and Shanda, believe it or not, at that period of time,

Oh my god, she's obsessed with wrapping paper.

It was, you know, the holiday cliffhanger. And all we did, I think was talked about wrapping paper, which is.

Just probably why it's podcast banter.

And then moved from the Gray's Anatomy one to the Scandal one. That was just like a big excuse to hang out with the actors and the crew and stuff or anybody who's listening, because this is like in the call of television fame, the most incredibly great cast in the world. Like just we've been really lucky with her cast. So it's not to disparage any for other phenomenal casts, but you all were really close and also just you were game for anything, you poor things.

So yeah, oh my gosh, we were so gay.

I'd go like, Hi, here's the opening of envelope, and you'd be like, it's cool.

We'll go it's do it. It's good.

It's just it's an envelope. Envelopes are good.

I remember going into your office to do the podcast to be a guest. It was always so exciting to go into the Shondaland offices and your office and Hozo is just like, oh, this is so fun and exciting, and.

You had a cool office.

I tell the listeners, what was the history behind that Sunset Gower office?

Deal was? We were at Sunset Gower and I got Harry Cohne's all office. And none of you will know who Harry Cone was, but Harry Cone pretty much started Columbia Pictures. I think it was Columbia Oh wow. And this was during the period of time in which there were like big moguls, like the gold Winds were sort of a mogal family. That was a whole funny thing when Tony came in that office. But this office was so intense. It was like all wood paneled. It looked

No.

Oh, I remember said that. I mean you told me that.

When I was in there, I was like, oh, I mean it's classic Hollywood, classic old Hollywood.

And then later I started realizing it was used in all these movies. So like my husband and I were watching the way, we were randomly oh yeah, I love it, and the studio had is like sitting in my office and I'm like what.

Yeah.

The other thing that was really cool was like every time we'd get really short on budget money for any show like How to Get with Murder, we used it like three times as different things because they'd be like a bud just really stress this episode, I go, what can you use the office for? And we go Gentlemen's Club, perfect college President. So it was also good.

I want to hear about when you first found out like that Judy and Shonda had met, and were you like, okay.

I arranged I arranged that, you arranged.

Oh okay, so take us through that.

Yeah, how did you meet Judy?

So?

I met Judy through my agent, whose name is Larry Salz, who's great at UTA, and he had called me and said, we're wrapping this woman that I think you, I just think you would really respond to and sent me all this information and material and I took one look at it and I was like, this is such an interesting idea of what this woman does for a living in that and we were both Shonda and I've always been

She's tall, she's thin, she's very statuesque and graceful.

She still like gets to the point right away. Stuff. Yes, five minutes in she's talking and Shonda looks at me and she MAVs, fuck you, oh, because she knew she wanted to.

She was like, I'm doing this.

Wow, I'm doing this.

Yeah, like I don't want anybody else to do it.

I want, I don't want, I want to do it. And then it kind of got put on the back burner for a while because she was so busy. And then little by little by little, we have these conversations and she was sort of playing with these different pieces and eventually came up with a totally fictionalized and only inspired by version of Judy Smith, which of course was Olivia Pope.

Wow.

I know, I wonder what was going through Judy's Smith's brain while she was meeting with Seawanda.

Was she like was she in on it? Like? Did you she think, okay, they might do a show about my life?

Oh? I think she was pitching herself as a show about a life, Like she was sort of like life rights type situation. Yeah, but she really liked us too. I then became closer to Judy for a while, so as the process was sort of going on. But yeah, she I think was she was into it? And then there were some other people who were interested, but we strong armed our way in.

Nice crazy beers. I know, do you remember like the casting process.

Oh yeah, you were. You were in my auditions.

Thank yeah, you were there for me too. You were in.

Everyone I love me those rooms.

Is it your produce storial brain that loves it or is it like your I mean, you have to tell us about your acting stand up comedy situation and you even came out here.

It's a brief story. Basically, I studied acting from when I was a kid. My dad was an agent and he died when I was little. They were always like, she should be an actress, she should be an actress. And it was one of those things where everybody tells you and you're like okay. And I could memorize lines really easily, which I guess was all I thought was necessary,

My mouth is on the ground. I'm like, how dam they and all they did in those days? Because this was like in eighteen forty two when I was in college and all they did was like wrecked, but they do it like as a Western.

Oh, nobody wants that.

It was like this period of time where nobody was having any fun. Everybody was just doing like really really serious plays. And I found out that I was like funny because we did one or two things that weren't and they were sort of like, yeah, if you did anything, the only you could kind of do is like musical comedy and stuff. I was okay, fine, So I ended up doing some summer theater and then I went to New York and I joined this improv group and.

That was really, to me really easy, right, well, because you're so smart and so instinctual.

God. It was also I liked. I liked sort of the producing aspect of it, I discovered. And I also was taking acting classes, and like the acting teachers would pull me aside and go, you're not making a very good argument for your character. You're letting the other person in this conversation just and I'd be like, well, I get their point, Like I understand what point of view, Like I think they're right.

I think I'm too smart.

I think I'm being a dick.

That's why.

No, it was because I can see all the points of view, which make me a better.

Producer producer, Yes, and an actor.

Yes, Betsy, did you ever do a guest spot on any of the shows?

Did you ever, like, were you ever in front of the camera? Would you ever want to be?

No? And I honestly this, I don't know how you all do.

It Honestly, I don't know how we do it either.

Really Like, I was watching this episode last night and I'm like, I said to Bruce, my husband, who is also, of course, the legal consultant on the show, what was like? I remember intellectually, but I forgot emotionally was how much freaking story is in there?

I mean, oh my god.

I was like, Okay, so hold on, hold on hold. So they are having an affair and then she.

Likes, I'm like, who is the fucking mole?

Yes?

What is happening?

And Jake shows up with the mole? And then I was like, the mole is with the the Chiron card or whatever the hell's help draw card in that I remember Abby stole the card and put it in the safe, but I totally forgot that David was the guy who actually was the guy who stole it. Yes, the introduction to Charlie and I remember casting Charlie, like all this stuff came back. Shanda couldn't be there, and we kept seeing these people and she was looking at auditions and stuff,

So yeah, this middle aged middle age like what's his big movie father that loves.

And he looks like he's dropping his kids off at soccer practice, you.

Know, totally makes him frightening.

Which makes him so frightened when they made him a sugar freak, and the whole sort of opening thing about he's like he's having sex with this woman for the laptop.

I mean, oh my god, bird work.

Yes, we'll be right back, guys, before.

We talk about this episode, really quick.

One last question, how did you become this the Shonda and special sauce that you read the stage directions for graising down to me, Private Practice, Scandal, how to get Away? I'm sure Bridgerton inventing Anna.

Betsy was like a character in the show doing the stage directions. And for people that don't understand what the stage directions are, there's sort of the description of what's happening,

People fall asleep. And the thing that I realized, because having actually been an actor, I'll be it a bad one how difficult it is if you are actually reading with people, which I found when I would read with actors, is if you suck or you're really dep it, it's really hard for the actor to do the best job.

Right. Of course, to lift the bottom of lifting.

Number two, I learned how to do it to some degree. Pilots because I was selling the pilot to the studio network. Of it was how do I help sell this pilot? And I was like the stealth seller, and I just I feel like what started to happen was when everybody started realizing that somebody was reading stage directions and they

It's the best.

And these Scandal table reads were famous. Like, yeah, sometimes you go into a table read and it's really like respectful and kind of quiet, and everyone's sort of on edge and scared, and like Scandal was like a fucking raucous.

That was like a revival meeting yea.

And what's great about Betsy is like sometimes you would be at these table reads and you'd be watching some of the best actors. We have the best stage actors in our country, right, So you're watching someone who would you would pay a three hundred and fifty dollars Broadway ticket to see Jeff Perry and Kate Burton going head to head or whatever, trained actors, and Betsy's like right in there in the scenes doing crazy descriptions at their pace, matching their energy, resetting us.

And then everyone who's listening it was like a show.

Everyone was like oh no, or like oh shit, or like you know, oh yeh, or like there's sexy.

It was crazy.

Do you also just remember too, like we had to limit the number of executives who would show up.

Oh, because everybody wanted to come to the table reads.

You may not have known this, but there are periods of time where there was limited access to the table reads because either a plot point, but mainly because it was like we were just always overrun. And I have to tell you small brag. I was doing the table read for How to Get Away with Murder and it was this pivotal episode and Denzel Washington randomly came I guess guess he was doing fences with Viola. Oh, Denzel Washington.

My dabhood God and I'm.

Good, I could die now.

And the thing is you would you would get those scripts when we got him, like you didn't get him ahead of time and sort of go over this the stage directions.

I don't know how much everybody's talked about this, but basically it was like this crazy django where they'd start the season and they'd dig a hole. The writers in Shonda would just like, dig hole, get in the hole, dump dirt on themselves, and then figure out the rest of the way to get out of the season. And they had an idea as to what was going to happen, but it was such an incredibly complex puzzle that without a doubt, like nobody would see scripts until do you remember they were hot.

Hot Oh yeah, literally hot off the press.

Yep, we need the ticking clock like it really helped Scandal, I think for this show exactly, the vibe was everyone is stretch. It's like we're all freaking because it's all so high stage.

And you're all finding out information in real time with the audience anyway for the most part.

So yes, yeah, okay, let's talk about episode two twenty one, because Betsy Beers is one of the most, Like I said, prolific producers in Hollywood.

She's busy.

I know this is way more fun.

We're talking about episode two twenty one, which was called Any Questions, which aired on May ninth, twenty thirteen.

It was written by Matt.

Byrne, who earned Matty Byrne, longtime member of the family and has written prodigiously, even on the recent Inventing Anna starring Katie Lows.

Of course, love him.

He worked on Queen Charlotte. He's phenomenal, and he wrote this in a very Maddy Byrne way. And I think it was directed by Mark Tinker.

Yes, directed by Mark Tinker.

Yes.

Mark Tinker longtime member of the Shondaland family. He was the producing director on Private Practice and has worked on many shows and was a big factor in an old medical show called Saint Elsewhere, which we believe I swear love him, love him, but Mark's hysterical and great.

But Mark directed a few episodes of Scandal right, and.

He directed my one guest star episode of Private Practice where I just left my baby in the backseat.

You did you killed your child?

Geez okice.

This episode is guest starring, guest starring Scott Foley is Jake Ballard, Joe Morton is Mysterious Man. Dan but Gatinsky is James Novak. George Newburn is Charlie. Kate Burton is Vice President, Sally Langston.

Matt Lesher is Billy Chambers. Brian Lesher is Tom Larson, Samantha Sloyan is Janine, Alexander Griers Patrick the White House staffer, Christy Myers is Perky counter Girl be six thirteen Operative, and also John Barrowman as the Fixer.

I was just about to say John Berriman, who I think the same year we had in a pilot called The Gilded Lilies where he played hey brother and Katie.

He's a huge like Broadway.

Guy's also Doctor Who, right.

Yes, he's in Doctor Who. Yeah. Yeah.

He was in a show called Central Park West years ago, which is the first time I saw him on anything, and he's he's wonderful and he's hot as fuck and he's hot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The other thing I thought was very funny, which is the actress who plays Janine actually looks like jen Saki, the former White House correspondent, looks.

So much like Jensaki, it's yeah, okay, to remind our listeners. What happens in this We're gonna read the synopsis. There is so much, listeners, just so much that scandalpace.

Are you ready?

G yes?

Okay?

As Cyrus dodges questions about Fitz's affair, the opay team tries to track down the mole once and for all. Fitz tells Olivia and Cyrus that he's not planning of running again, which Olivia is okay with as long as it means they can be together Oh yeah, kissy kissing.

But when Cyrus learns it Fits might not have planned to run regardless, Olivia convinces him not to throw away his presidency.

Yus Charlie shows up seeking Olivia's protection, but instead almost gets killed by Huck. Luckily, after Huck gets the name of the mole, Quinn convinces Huck to let Charlie live, which turns out to be.

A bad plan. When the Citron card goes missing.

Everyone thinks they know what happened to it. Bun David Rosen has revealed to be the one who stolen what.

And that, Folks is our episode, Betsy, go watch your favorite scenes from this.

Epp Oh, I think mine? Okay?

The Cyrus ripping James a new asshole.

That is so painful, that's so good.

He had a lip quiver at the end that I was like, this motherfucker got the Emmy.

He got that the stars this role.

But don't you think that he There's two scenes in it. The two scenes that go together are the sy will you let me be a reporter?

Sy?

Will you let me be a reporter? Si? Will you let me be a reporter? And Size totally distracted, is paying any attention to him, and they're gonna be on air. They're gonna let me be on air. Yeah, yeah, And I'm going like sure, sure, shirt. And then the flip side of it, which is you see sweaty James with Mellie. It's the pet of like three scene beat.

It's like a play. Their their story is a play.

Yeah.

I came to the realization watching this episode and watching those scenes with Jeff Perry flipping out, blowing his top like he does, and I thought that is the reason that why Jeff Perry the actor is always so chill. He has that I just had an amazing orgasm vibe.

Well put you know what I mean.

He's so chill and relaxed and I'm like, it's because he got that shit all out doing these scenes and scandal like for seven seasons, right, oh.

Without a doubt. And like jeff Perry marches down a hallway pissed better than anybody I've ever seen in my life.

Do you know that?

On that shot when he's walking down the tunnel.

Oh my god, doesn't he take his jacket off?

He's amazing. I'm also obsessed with Jeffrey's hair, but that's a different issue. Oh my god, he's got this great sort of like puffy hair in this which.

He just just totally totally does. I love that scene.

I love the scene with Olivia and Cyrus outside in the park that used to be a graveyard, remember, And then at the end Olivia says it also used to be a zoo, which I think.

That what does that mean?

Well, I think I mean there's still animals there, exactly. Yeah, it used to be a zoo, so we fit right in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh it's such a great scene.

I also loved, weirdly all the voyeuristic stuff, which was fully Sorry, Jake, I know I love it, but Jake, the constant scenes have been watching himself having sex with Olivia, which is just you.

I want to make fun of him so bad. I text him that all the times. I'm like, yep, I'm on the episode where you're watching yourself throw Olivia on the counter.

Jeez, weirdo.

Sometimes we have to look down.

Katie and I have have said this that sometimes we're watching an episode where fits in Olivia or or you know, Scott and Olivia and olivia're having sex, and I can't look at the screen because I'm like, we know them, they are friends.

It's like, what are you doing?

I have to say it is it's weirder now that we've all known each other for so long.

Yes, yes, yes, I was.

Watching this stuff and I would have flashes of like, can I remember going to the Democratic National Convention with Tony what twenty sixteen or whatever it was, and Tony and his wife and all anybody.

Could see was that, Oh yeah, women were as.

Swissed with him. They got it.

They still are.

It's really wild. Wait another one, the freaking Harrison Dean oh in Olivia, Yes, where he's like end game, what is.

You're my client? Yeah?

And also this weird thing where she's passing the torch.

Yes, yes, I love that.

Scene because it's the first time she tries to patch the torch. A couple of times over the course of the series, but this, I think is the first time you see her say I'm out. And I just kept thinking how emotionally incredibly disappointing it is, how she always has to do the right thing. And they did one thing wrong, yeah, which was a big thing.

Oh, they just read a little election.

Hey, ye know, they did one thing wrong. But that over and over and over again, she has to to sacrifice that thing. You know where in the episode before where they sit and they watch the clock and the album.

Leaf time have run out.

The album leaf stuff comes in, which is just like, oh my god, and you know, Mellie's talking and she realizes that it's actually really going to happen. And then she starts this episode and she's she's like lighter. And I keep watching the costumes too, in terms of what people are wearing, like she's in a slightly sort of like it feels slightly air and then little by little by little, you see it dawn on her. And it's a genius of Carrie, like you see it dawn on her.

That he needs to get a second term and he's got to win. I know you're right. Her acting at the beginning of this episode, there's so much about her like, oh my god, I'm going to get what I want. I'm gonna not live this life. I'm going to be with the man that I love. I can have normal or whatever. Yeah, whatever that means to her. And then you watch it slowly, act by act break down. She's holding onto it and she's passing over Opa. She's done being a fixer.

She can do it. She can do it.

And in that scene you guys were talking about the zoo, she's still holding onto it. And then she starts. There's that part where Cyrus is like, don't do this to me, don't do this to us. Then she finds out about the paper that he never submitted.

That's the paper what's it called, what's it called?

The thing saying that he wants to again, Yeah.

Never submitted it because he didn't think he deserved it, and so she ends their relationship again. It's just like, they keep us on this line, man, for seven seasons.

They keep us on this They.

Super super do. But then I also am like, I was so delighted about the fact that Charlie makes an entrance and now there's a Charlie in the world as well. But also I just have to say for the record, and I will prove myself to be the idiot I am. I totally had forgotten that Billy Chambers comes back.

Oh, I forgot too. I watched it. I was like, oh, Billy, Billy Chambers, you're not alone.

I the last time I saw Billy Chambers was he was stabbing somebody with scissors.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like.

To totally forgot that Billy Chambers is in the car, which, by.

The way, speaking of table reads, sometimes y'all would do that to us too, which is we wouldn't know what the storyline of what was happening, and then all of a sudden, Billy Chambers would come back, or Greg Henry or somebody had been around in two years or something, and then they'd come back and we're.

Like, what are you doing?

Like we've learned that way that they're going to be a part of it.

Oh, and how long did it take me to understand that Billy and Tom are brothers?

Matt and Brian Lesher.

Yeah, Matt and Brian Lesher great actors.

It took me like. It wasn't until somebody said, you know their brothers.

I was like, really, wait, So we learned that Charlie took the cidetron hard but it's okay.

No, well we think he did, but it was really it was really Rosen.

It was David Rosen, yes, and he gave it to Billy Chamber because.

David Rosen is not happy with the election fraud and he keeps making it clearer. No, it's listening to him. All he wants to know is like, who's fits having sex with? And you all did this really funny thing where you keep going on that part. They take their heads and they look around a lot, or they dip their heads down.

Look down, look at each other, and he's like, oh, I wonder who's banging the president and we all know it's Olivia's that We're like, dude.

It was also this great moment where Quinn obviously knows how to dismember a body. At this point, you look at Huck and you're so pleased with yourself.

And Abby says, ooh baby, oh.

Baby, I say some shit about hacking We're like trying to send a trojan horse to Sally Langston's daughter.

That was it.

I love this Sally Langston thing. And then it's David Rosen who comes up with the thing.

Yeah, who's like, you got to get the meanest mean girl.

Which is so true. That's true.

Oh my god.

And then there's that really funny picture of this girl with this nose before a nose job that was so vicious.

They must have built that, Like it looked so terrible glue did you use like that?

It was like nozola on her face.

Wow, she was like the wicked witch in the Wizard of Oz. Like.

I was like, is that like Shylock from Merchant to Venice likes Shakespeare?

Katie Way to bring the level of the podcast up, it looked really ridiculous.

I was like, this is so insane. Wait, some fun facts about this episode. Sally says, the name of the previous episode a woman scorn.

She's doing a walk and.

Talk down the White House hallways with Jeff and.

She's like trying to find out information.

Yeah, Mellie's gonna come out tonight, She's gonna say it, and well, you know, like the Bible says, hell, haf no fury, like a woman scorned, and Jeff says something like not everything's in the bally. Yeah, we should do the whole series again and Guillermo should play in Cyrus. Okay, since it wasn't said last time, it has been said in almost every episode so far. According to the timeline within the Scandal universe, Billy has been missing for a year and six months.

This is when I'm saying till like, this is what I'm saying, What the hell? What's the deal?

Right?

I mean, where'd he go? What's he been doing?

But how exciting when he pops back up right and like, what the fuck?

It's amazing, yo.

One thing that I loved is one of the opening scenes when Jeff Perry when Cyrus goes to Olivia's apartment and is trying to get into the apartment and he's yelling at Tom and the other guy, the other security guy blowing his top again I know.

And then don't you love it when he tries to go back again and he has the assistant lie to get him in. Oh yes, he gets there, and the same thing happens this time it's Jake. It's just like that man cannot get in that woman's apartment no matter what he does.

Also, my god, how how much sex to fits in Olivia I have to have in this series.

It's like unbelievable. As I would say, I think most of us. It either makes you feel like that's incredible or I just feel bad about my life.

Yeah, I just me.

I always think, like, God, did they have to shoot that at five am on like a one day?

You know what I mean?

I alwaysistically, was it like at worked that day?

Oh?

Oh oh, teacher, teacher, teacher.

Also Beetsy Beer, thank you?

Did Josh Melina have a cold or the flu when we were filming that episode?

Oh my god, Betsy, I thought the same thing.

I remember that there was a couple of episodes where he was like really sick. When he was describing the nose. I turned to Bruce and I said, I remember this because I remember we didn't know if we could shoot with Josh because I think Josh had the flu or something.

You could hear.

This and I was like, Oh, no, someone's got a cold. And you know what's so funny in this post COVID.

World, like that would have never happened.

Things have changed so much.

Were like if you're really sick like that, Like you can't go on a set and expose all of your castmates.

But the seven years of Scandal, we used to work, oh full on fucking slugs. Oh you like, just get it done.

If you can stand and you can walk, you can act, get it together.

The only rule was you couldn't do love scenes if you like had a fever or lots and lots of snot right. So that was the only kind of waterloo. But everybody would show up like hacking. Oh yeah, just feeling sea dumbiting, he doesn't like a little diarrhea.

Gee, did you ever have to not come because you were so sick?

No?

I remember the one time I almost didn't come. They sent a doctor to my.

House to make sure you could.

Yeah, and she gave me like a shot and like a Z pack, and I was fine the next day.

Yeah, I mean fine enough.

How about when you came to work and you'd been in the emergency room the whole night before because you, by accident, were at a restaurant and had nuts and you're definitely allergic, and your whole body blew up.

Yes, And then I got a cold sore on my lip, and we had to do that sex scene in the conference room and Tom was like, Okay, it's gonna be from behind, so we weren't facing each other.

Yeah, we had to adjust.

That would be Tom Verica, our producer. Yes, of course it's an actor, and not only was like the show must go on, but figured out a way to film it.

Yep, on top of g on the conference wooden table. We were supposed to make out and have sex, and then he walked in and he was like, I'm so sorry, I'm a cold sore. So I remembered Tom being like, oh, it's okay.

He could just flip you around and the whole thing just happens from behind. I was like, okay, and we did it.

What season was that?

Was that?

Like? Season three? I don't know your I think it's four.

Idea, we'll get there. We will be back with more after the break.

We also forgot to talk about the scene with you, me and George Newburn Katie. I love that when I have him taped up and I'm about to shoot him after he gives us gives me the name of the mole, and then Katie walks in with this beautifully like dun hair and like hot lipstick. Did you notice that you were like all made up?

Well, that was the thing. One of the things that you do really notice is how shiny it is, Like the whole show is super shiny. Everybody's up. It's a really clean and pressed and you always look neat and even after sex like fits. His shirts are crisp and they come and Katie looked like, oh, just come off like guest hosting Good Morning America.

My hair was just had come out of a set of rollers.

You literally look like you're a guest hosting with Ryan Seacrest.

Yeah, it was too much. I look better on this show than.

That, honestly, Like I was like, also, I mean somebody, I think I've gotten better at acting since then. My god, it is hard for me to sometimes watch these scenes.

I'm like, what am I too doing? Like why, yeah.

I'm so good, You're so high on stupidity.

That's all in your head. We all need ourselves.

Nobody's thinking that how much chapstick lip gloss could I possibly have on b Why am I talking like that? Like why can't I just talk normal? Like what is happening? I just am over the top acting and thank god, Shanda and Betsy didn't kill Quinn off because I was like, I am a failure, Like this.

Is hysterical, you're such a weirdo, Like you're so good. And the whole point is Quinn was from the moment you meet her, she's over eager, she's performative, she's she puts that out there. That's the whole point. The same way Huck is, you know, a semi vegetable half the time until he comes.

Alive murdering people.

I mean, what's great is you get to know Huck is you go It's almost like there's a trigger that was built into him that at a particular point he has to kill, like this is all he was good for. Oh and that characters. What's great to me is as you watch the show progress over the seasons, everybody really knows how to write for the characters as they are. You all pivoted as your characters would change. That's the most incredible thing. So no shit talking about one's performance.

I say that to people all the time.

I feel really lucky, Like I think a lot of times if you're if you're an actor and you're lucky enough to land lightning in a bottle.

When you do, or if you do.

Most of the times the character you book is how they stay for seven years, like especially on a sitcom or especially like it is very rare for your character to change. And that's what I thought was so awesome about Scandal was like I got to do.

The craziest shit in the whole world.

And if you had showed me Quen season five, six seven compared to one, two, three and all the I mean the characters.

Melilly, Smelly, Melly, Yeah season two, like Mellie is she's very self righteous and she's doing that low ballomy voice, and she's wearing her suit and she's.

Very angry about everything. And then you think about where we got to where you have, and so much of it to me, in terms of the writing, is about I've always said about this company, about what Shonda creates and the writers. Everybody's three dimensional. As you start to get to know a character, you think you know them, and then something comes out, either in flashback or backstory or their Achilles heel, and everything changes about how you

That's right, and you're kind of like.

You had it coming well and also even fits killing Verna, like all that shit was like.

What, yeah, how about the season where Fitz was just a drunk, like just a mean, fucking drunk.

Sure, he's like awful to Melly.

He's after he got shot.

It's also like you meet us dad and you understand the whole thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Barry boss Wick like.

Oh, the poor Barry Poster. I mean he was like the Robert bridegrim on Broadway and there he was just being terrible. But yeah, No, it's those layers and depth and the fact that very often the plot, which is so incredibly engaging and involving, reveals not only another plot point that either traumatizes or changes the way that you operate as characters, but reveals something deeper that you didn't know existed, which then allows the character to keep growing.

We felt very, very very lucky to do that.

Wait, fortunately, before we let you go, and we're going to read some tweets at the time, was there any of your favorite memories that come to mind.

Like meeting me and Katie for the first time, Well, i'd met you.

Before, Gamo, so I was so excited to see you because it was like a creepy reunion where I, like you first meet. He was in two hundred Cigarettes, which was the first movie I produced, and Ghirmo was hysterical and really really good in the movie.

It's like a cult underground, like people love them. It's such a great movie.

So I loved Gharma like and Ghirmou did me the ultimate solid, which we talked about in the podcast, which is yes, it's a long story, but he ended up playing Angie Featherstone in the back of a cap so I wouldn't have to dye my hair carrot orange and do a double for her because she wasn't with us anymore. She hadn't die, she just had to go on to

Yeah, I'm private practice.

Yeah, And I remember Seanda said, you get to call Ghirrimo and tell me about the part because you know him and you love him. So I got to call Ghirrimo.

Yes, yes, yes, I remember that.

Yes I got to call Gaermeau. But you know what, there's so much the casting process was really fun. I don't know if they're all of these weird because we all we all would hang out together too. Sometimes I would, I would see you all.

Yeah, we went upfronts together. We went two things together.

I remember, do you remember these sacks fit the avenue window things?

Yes, Oh my god, we were Mannikins.

We took over Sacksmith Avenue and they had sacks with avenue hosted. I think was Lynn pallow Is, the costume our brilliant costume designer who worked with a lot since and we sort of took over sacks We had this big party and there were all of these scandal mannequins with clothes on in the sax window, and all the actors climbed into the windows and stood next to their mannequins. And we couldn't get out of like a hotel without bringing you guys through the kitchen.

It was Inese. Yes, we walked through so many kids.

We went through so many kitchens in those days. So I remember, like all of those times the table reads. I remarily really well, and I remember realizing when the show was going to hit and sitting everyone down because we've been through with Grays and as I mean, I remember sitting down with you all and basically saying, Okay, so your lives are going to change and you have to be prepared for the fact that it's going to get really weird. And Katie was like, what do you mean.

Oh yeah, I was like, why what are you talking about? This is what I remember, though, you guys being so giving and saying like, if you need anything, if something happens, like you get a fender bender, all the shit, you call me, call me. I don't want to find out Monday morning and the trade like you know, you guys had already been through a hit happening on Grays and

Yeah, it was like a bad season one under your belt. But the weirdest thing about it was because it didn't shoot out like a cannon when we started The weirdest thing was you were already used to it being fine to do whatever you wanted to do. You were going into like Loman's dressing room. So what everybody needs to know is like their Lomans was the store where you went in. There were communal dressing rooms. They had them in New York and different stores, And if you're from

People are going to take photos of me and your underwear on the intranet.

Yeah no, thank God said something to me. I was like, I think things are starting to get weird.

The sales, you missed, the.

Sales, sales all the time.

Listen to some tweets at a time, y'all is the best improv.

Artists and Whistler apparently.

Wait, Betsy, did you join the Twitter for this show? Like we all did? I'm not on it. Much anymore.

But I joined the tweets kate for this show specifically, and now I'm not.

Yeah wait should I be off Twitter? Yes? Do I need to get off Twitter? Yeah?

Right, I'm not off. I just don't check it or go on it for age.

It's so sad and angry.

Now, I know what I like about these is that it was a real time capsule for what was going on. Like at official JP Peace and Power Planet is coming. Me and my brother just had the ill convo trying to figure out who the mole is on hashtag scandal.

This fool thinks it's fits. Lol, Guys the.

Mole, that damn mole and then do better, y'all. At Miss Lynn ninety three tweeted, wait, what if how is the mole? I knew he blinked too much hashtag scandal.

This is a good one.

At sunny Chaie tweeted, So I just told a friend that I think Harrison is the mole on Scandal.

I think she just about passed out. Lol. We both hope and I'm wrong. Here's the thing.

People were invested, man, They really were trying to figure out who the male was.

We're so invested. And my favorite line of the episode might be. Quinn was like, if I say the word mole one more.

One more time? Yes, that was so good and you were.

Right, Betsy, Thank you so thank so much, so much fun. Anytime you just want me on to talk randomly about shit that has nothing to do with anything.

We definitely want to have you back on. We should switch the roles and have her host and you and I be the guests on on this podcast.

Yeah, because she's such a better host than.

Guys are so full of shit. Your eyes are brown.

I've never heard that before.

Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. I didn't have to work for like an hour.

This was so great And now you have so much to do. And next up we've got the finale of season two, episode two two, which is so good. White hats back on people, and I think we have a very very very another very special guest in our back pocket coming. So make sure you tune into all your friends like subscribe Unpacking the tool Yes at Girmo, how do we say it en Espano.

De Ramientas Unpacking the Toolbox and.

Espanol Adeos Gladiators.

Thank you everybody, by Betsy, thank you guys for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate, or leave us a review.

Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alce, Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is Vince De Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher. Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.