201: White Hat's Off w/ Joshua Malina

scripted stuff, only for like host type thing. Well, when i get like eight pages of monologues, now, I'm like, oh, guys, especially if it's like da crap speaking of DA and lawyerly speak, we have the fucking most mischievous guest today coming on, and he's the best lawyer speak motherfucker actor I've ever seen in my life. Oh yeah, can you believe this motherfucker at how easy it can? I hate him? I know, I know, and he and I'm drilling like legal talk and making it feel like it just like

comes off the tongue. And also it takes me days to prep that, and this ship came in like yesterday. Yeah, it takes me days because I need to be confident, like confident, ye, but this motherfucker, I mean you've said this before. Oh my god, He'll look at that shit in the makeup trader and time and it's easy. And he's not even shaken. He can't be shook. He's well because he could give a shit too. He's like, Oh, I don't care, I don't care. I just want the page.

I mean, this is his middle name should be. I just want to pay paycheck. Had you ever had auditions where you have to like pick up sides or a script? Oh the time? Are you kidding? All the time? Real? When I first moved to LA I would have to drive to my agency and there would be a basket in the lobby if it was after hours, and they would leave your script in a manilla envelope with your

name on it. Oh yeah, I remember that. At the time of this recording, I would just also like to say, this is the seventeenth year to the day anniversary when I moved to last Oh, that's a long time. It's a long time, Like I can't even believe it. But I always remember getting off at Lax being like, what did I just do? To blow up my life like this renting a beater, piece of shit, fucked up car, and I got on the four oh five and the ten scariest drive of my entire life, and I had

a Thomas guy to get around. Some big ass nerd created the Thomas Guide. I was like, don't even come at me with this thick book of fucking coordinates, Like what are you talking about how I used to try to get a round audition? Oh? Hell no, I'm a geographic dumb dumb. I'm a bad driver, like very bad, which reminds me. Also, you and I, You and I are cut, we have the same We shot the pilot and it's raining, and you're in a you're so hot, you're in a leather jacket and you're in a jeep

wrangler that has no top. Oh my god. Remember, and you're like, can I follow you to get on the one oh one? And I kept saying like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it, I got it, I got it. And I see you in my rearview mirror, like following me, and I don't know where I'm going, and I just remember I keep pulling uee's and you're pulling UEI's and it's s raining as shit. Yeah. I was like, it would be worse if it was just me, girl. I was impressed at all. I was like, do your thing,

take your time. Now. There are a few controversial players that we have had on the podcast that we're going to have on the podcast. Controversial players. This one is a controversial player because he is a polarizing motherfucker. This is the number one fucking polarizing. Like you either are on board with his antics or you are afraid, which makes you mad at him. Yeah, I fucking teeter talk. I'm back and forth like I love him and I laugh and I enjoy it, and then I'm like, I

cannot believe you freaking did that. And I'm so pissed at him, Like I go back and forth. He's kind of scared of you. I could feel that too, because I'll go off on a motherfucker. Yeah. See, he never fucked with you, no, yeah, yeah. And I feel like it's because he was always a little bit like, oh, you don't do that to Guermo, like you don't there, he didn't do to you what he's done did to me, or because I'm such a fucking easy target. But here's

the thing. He's the most talented dude without trying, which is so frustrating. Yeah, like Josh Mullen is the smartest person in the room, Oh yeah, but also a quick win and a quick intelligence, Like I people ask me a question and I have to be like, give me twenty minutes to go try to understand the question and think of what I'm gonna say. Sometimes, guys, we would do cold reads of our scripts, and I would be fucking mortified that they would find out in a cold read,

like how exactly dumb I am? But like I wouldn't know how to pronounce a word, or there might be like a turn of phrase or something that was like a colloquialism. Same like quickly look at Quinn's lines to make sure there wasn't something that would out how like unintelligent I was. Because there were so many fucking smart people in our cast, Like do you know that Bellamy Young and Josh Willna went to Yale fucking Yale, dude,

like real kidding, And Shanda went to Dartmouth. Half the writers or more were like journalists, perfect like unbelievable talent. Do you carry went to GWS? Right? That's right? Obviously She's a political animal and just ridiculously smart. Where did you go, Katie, Well, I went to Tish School. You you don't got to be smart to get in there. Well, listen, it's not easy to get into No, you have to have done well. But it has something to do with smarts.

For me, I just was good at school, and if I wasn't going to get a great grade, I knew how to do extra time in the teacher's room to make them like me and give me an like I was working that shit from jump. But guys, we have teased one of the most controversial and polarizing guests to have ever been on the Skin and Rewatch podcast and on Scanal. I love him. I think he's so amazing.

And we are talking about episode two oh one called White Hats Off, which aired on September twenty seventh of twenty twelve, and it was written by Jenna Bands and directed by our very own we love him so much,

Tom Verica. Whoa, whoa, We love you, Tom Verica. It was guest starring Wendy Davis Is Kimberly, Mitchell Reese Rios as reporter number one, did Norah Walcott as Reporter Number two, Erica Schaefer as TV newscaster, j Jackson as local newscaster, and then we have Jimmy Kimmel as himself, Jackson Hurst as Congressman Jacob Shaw, Gillian Armanante as Moira, O'Donnell, Mara Soden as Doctor Brown, and I wanted to add Shelley Morrison as the judge who played Rosario in Will and Grace.

I mean, come on, this is the synopsis. This was our first episode back. I mean, after we shot the first seven episodes of the first season, we didn't know for sure if we were going to get a second season, right, We didn't know. Six months after Quinn's arrest, Olidia and the OPA team are confident they'll win her case, as David Rosen's evidence is mostly just Quinn's motive, her cheating ex boyfriend, and the fact that she fled. The OPA

team helps a congressman navigate a sex tape scandal. As Quinn's case begins to crumble around her, but Olivia refuses to let Quinn be found guilty, probably because she and Huck were the ones actually behind Quinn's new identity. I remember literally spending all summer with people asking me if I knew who Quinn Perkins was, And I was like no, because because if the cliffhanger at the end of season one is Olivia telling Quinn, do you want to tell them who you are? Or you want me to tell you?

Tell them? Right? Yeah? Do you want to tell them who you really are? Or should I should? I? Yeah? So people held on to that for how long before we came back? Well, this aired September twenty seventh, in twenty twelve, and I think our last Scandal episode was like May. So it was like the summer that I got married. Okay. I have this memory of two hundred and fifteen people going like, who are who are you? Who is Quinn? Yeah? Who is Quinn? And I'm like, I don't know, I don't know. Yeah, I hope I

have a job. I hope I have a job. And probably the writers didn't fully know exactly which direction they we're gonna go either, I would think, right, I mean think they knew it? Yeah, I don't think they knew at all. Every episode with Hollis Doyle until this point he has seen eating or mentioning Gettysburger. Gettysburger. How good does a burger sound right now, Fox, I would rush

a burger right now. Like, uh, I was watching Anthony Bourdain last night and he's eating a cheeseburger at just like a you know, one of those like stands outside he was in, like I don't know, he was like in Jamaica or somewhere, but it was just a greasy cheeseburger and it looks so fucking good. I mean, come on, oh god, I love it. There are three fucking continuity errors in this episode. Photos of Elaine show that she's blonde, but in Truth or Consequences, the actress playing Elane is

a brunette. A brunette. Oh this is the best. Yeah, Jesse Tyler is not Adam Shapiro at this time. It's some other dude that they took photos of and they whoopsie doodle. Yeah, they didn't know Adam was going to play play the role. Yeah. No. After Olivia and David leave the court, the next scene shows the Monument of Iwajima with the Statehouse in Washington omnument in the background. But the Ewigima monument is not in DC. It's in Arlington.

That's messed up. Yeah, that's advertise. That's that's that's that continuity that didn't happen. Were there any winning scenes from this episode? Yes, and you're in it. Oh, scene where you end up firing Olivia and she comes to see you in jail, right, and your other attorney that you hire is there, and Olivia's like, give me a moment, please, and You're like, fine, give us a moment, and you're their face off, you know, you and Olivia going at it, and you stand up and we see Quinn's fury, like,

come out. You were so good. You were a fucking powerhouse. And that's oh god, I thought I was horrible. Oh I was gonna ask you, have you ever flipped out like that? I love you've done that right? Oh yeah yeah, well that scene where you flip out on Olivia, Man, I fucking loved it. I was like, hell yeah to say that. So that's I really think gar I really think all of Josh's room scenes are fucking unbelievable. Oh so good. That courtroom stuff is really really fun, fun

to watch. And and again we mentioned to do and hard to fucking do. And can we say how much I love how much we love a Gillian Armonante who played your defense attorney. Oh, she's so great in this episode. And I looked her up to and she she had been in two epic movies. One was Dog Fight with a Lily Taylor. We have you've ever seen that film? And no great movie? I see nothing, I watch nothing, I do nothing. And then she was in Girl Interrupted with Winona Ryder. Yeah, Abby is into watching the sex

daye herself. I wrote there's the your ornamental not instrumental yes, which is a big winning line from the FSA you are ornamental, not You're ornamental not instrumental. Oh so good. Oh my god, fits Olivia. It's so slow and they say hello and high. I love that this whole time. Huck and Olivia have the best poker face, like they're the ones that Quinn and moved her to a whole different state, right yes, and changed her identity and they

know this throughout the whole episode. And those two have the best like poker face, like they're not letting anything show and not until the end of the episode do we know that all of Quinn Perkins is Huck and Olivia. And Huck is like she took everything we gave her, We're good to go, or something like that. Yo. It made me also think, like what would I have done

in that situation. Would I have been like fuck, yeah, I'm gonna do this, or what I would have you know, like flipped out and ran outside of the littletel crying like Yeah, I don't think I would have done it. I don't think so either, Like I feel like that's such a tell about Quinn and who she is. She just was like, Okay, I'll just be a new person. Yeah. One of them many reasons we're bringing Josh Milena into this episode is because he's about to embark on the

craziest season two like so insane. But also this is the first episode where Josh, Melina and Bellamy Young our series regular. That's right. I can't believe that they weren't always regulars either, because they're both so good, so present, their storylines are so important to season one. They were just guest stars. Garmo in a sliding doors. Josh or Bellamy could have booked something or been offered something, oh for sure, and we would have had a different first Yeah,

and they would have been unavailable. Like when you're a recurring guest star, there's nothing in the thing that says that you're loyal to that one show. Yeah, yeah, we'll be right back. Guys. Oh my god, wait, the most the one the ownly whoa facial hair. I know why I did, Handsome. We were saying that you might be the most controversial Scandal gas. As far as controversial, I think I am the closest to having gotten fired without

actually getting fired. True. I got called to uncomfortable meetings a couple of times because of pranks I played. I believe it. I'm not surprised. I also told Guillermo before you came on, I was like, I think there's very few people that that Josh was actually afraid of on Scandal, like fucking with them too much. And it was like Shonda, Betsy, and Guermo. I was like, they're the only three people Josh fucked with but for some reason actually respected some

sort of line based in fear. I think that's true. Well, I'm only scared of Guarmo because I watched the show personally. He's a pussycat. Watching a few episodes of Scandal and I was like, I gotta wade for that guy, and you were like, this motherfucker's crazy. You know, he's fucking scary. He's fucking scary. Wait, Josh, so the West Wing podcast, when did you start it and when did you end it?

March twenty sixteen, and then I believe the final wrap up episode was on my birthday January seventeen, twenty twenty, so it was about four years. Just shy of four years. Oh wow, we did a live show of the eighth Theater. Oh the Ace. That's huge. Oh nice, the theater's fucking massive. Yeah.

Fun fact about the season one of Scandal. I was a guest star in all seven episodes of season one, and I remember Kerry One saying to me, so, I'm in every episode of season one, and you're in every episode of season one, but I'm a series regular and you, Josh our guest star. What does that mean? I said? You know how, at the end of the week, you get a lot of money. At the end of the week, I get very little money. And that's what the difference is,

Isn't that always a bitch? I've been in the positions and then you always feel bad and your agents are always like you either got to walk away or you know, just accepted and keep doing the job. Oh, by the way, that happens now more than ever, usually I would just stay and keep doing the job for no money, because you don't want to lose a job. Yeah. No, I wanted to work for Sean to Rhymes. I had done episodes Practice and Gray's Anatomy. You did you did a Grayze? Yeah?

Oh yeah? Were you adorable? Wait? What did you play on Grays? I was young, I'm Gray's I was Leslie Grossman's husband and she needed a fecal transplant and I had great lines like no poop, no poop for you. You came onto the right podcast, Josh, because we talk about poop a lot. We talk about shitting like nobody's business. But wait, Josh, two things one. We wanted to have you on this episode two oh one because congratulations, this

is when you became a series regular. So now you can continue your story of why the first seven were you a little bitch? And then the first episode of season two, why did it change? And my other story I want to say really quickly is that when we shot the pilot, you walked onto the set and it is the only time I think I've told you this, and your head's about to get big. It's the only time in seven seasons that I saw Shanda Rimes get starstruck.

She loves you so much. Josh Wilena walked on and she was like, yeah, oh my god, I'm freaking out. I'm freaking out. I was like, I'm kind of freaking out too, but she was like, I'm totally freaking out. Like I love Josh Willna. She was a big West Wing fan, right, yeah, and really quickly you played Seth Hammer on Grey's Anatomy. There it is, that's right, Seth Hammer. It was Hammer time for a week. Why did you become a regular? How did this happen? Well, here's what happened.

I had been offered episodes of Private Practice and Grey's Anatomy because in fact, I think Seanna's a big West Wing fan, and she couldn't have been nice to me when I worked on that. My agents called Shonda Rhimes has a pilot. I'm like, well, doesn't she just want to give it to me? Like she keeps offering me episode And the answer was no, she doesn't just want to give it to you. She wants you to audition. And then I went in and I remember, very awkward,

this is really weird. You know, there's like usually a chair for the actor, but there was just an open space and then there was a chair like next against the wall, and I went and I just kind of sat in it next to the wall. And then I was like, well, this can't be right. And they were like, no, no, that's a weird instinct and why you stand up and do the scenes? And I did them and I felt like it went well, and Hynda Rhyme said, well, that's all I need to see. Oh wow, which you could

take one or two ways. And I remember calling my agents and going like, either I've ruined my relationship with Rynda Rhymes or I think maybe they're gonna give it to me, like because she said that's all I need to see. Do you remember what the scenes were? I remember one where like I talked about her spidy senses or something. Oh yeah, yeah, so it scenes with Olibya. Maybe when she knocks on your door and you have the dartmouth sweater on and you're so cute and you're

wearing like a darknesth sweat. Cute, you're very sweet. I think that's exactly what it was. And then what they said was this you got the pilot, And I was like, I'm thrilled, and there's this amount of money and I was like, wow, that's pretty good. They said, wait, wait, wait, but you can choose how many episodes do you want to be in for the same amount of money what?

In other words, what it came out to was seven times minimum, right, So they were like, if you want to be in the entire season, you just have to work for minimum in every episode, or you can think a really nice big check for one or a pretty good check for two. And I was like, oh, I want to I don't care. Yeah, I want to be in all of them. Did you feel like you wanted to be in all them? Because then you were like, that's going to make my character like you need needed. Yeah. Yeah,

it made it. It It seemed like the greatest chance of becoming a regular. And in the end, we actually made a contract where I signed up to do all seven as a guest star, and there was already in the contract that if they were to go to a second season and if they wanted me, I would be a regular. And I was just desperately like waiting, Wait, was Dan Bukatinsky auditioning for David Rosen as well? Yes, he was no way. Unfortunately, didn't get it, but he did get

an Yeah he did, Yeah, he did. He also did auditioned for Hawk too. Yeah. Well that shows one of the nice things about Shanda, which is that she is like Aaron Sorkin. She has people she loves to work with, and she'll give you your shot and figure out where she might be able to slot you in, Like she loves Dan's work, and like, all right, this role, maybe that's not Claire, this isn't Oh, I think we found the one, and so we're lucky to be in her

in her sphere of players. When you came on board and started to like, see why I say you're controversial is because our cast is incredibly gushy and huggy and kissy and lovey and texty, and Josh is like not was the West Wing cast like really cool and like whatever? And then you got into our cast and you were like, this is insane. These people love each other way too much. But they have to stop hugging at every table read

nobody fucking cares stop. Yeah. I think the West Wing was somewhere on the spectrum between my like let's never talk to each other or touch each other and the scandal ethos of life. Let's just have a big friendship. Origin somewhere between those two is west Wing. It was probably right in the middle, got it. Speaking of texting, though, I remember Josh did love texting on other people's phones, That's true. And what he would text was I'm horny.

I'd put it on Twitter. Oh my god. He never did it to me, but you've done it to Katie three times. Now, let's set the scene ten years ago. I don't think I even had a lock on my phone, to be honest. I mean, I was just that naive and trustworthy. I just remember chasing you and being like, give me back my phone, and he'd get on my Twitter account and he would just tweet from my Twitter account I'm morny. And then I would just get like days of like, why is it Adam taking care of that?

Just mortified. But that's just the beginning. Have you been a prankster your whole life? I have, Indeed I have. When I guessed are in other people's shows, I'm usually well behaved, but then once I start feeling comfortable as a series regular on something like now I'm bored, let's have some fire, and I usually feel like I won't get fired and unscandaled a couple of times it was like, Seanda and Betsy needs to talk about. What did they talk to you about? And were you like really scared?

The first time, I finished filming a scene and Ad came to me and said, hey, don't change out of your wardrobe. You need to go straight to Shanda and Betsy's office. And I was like really, And I said what about and She's like, I don't know. They didn't say, And I was, as I was walking there, was thinking, can't be getting a raised. It can't be good. It seems unlikely that this is good news. And when I

got up there, it wasn't good news. Jimmy Kimmel, who was a prankster himself, had sent me all these codes that allow you to send a text or an email as if it's from a specific person's phone. And I remember writing back to Jimmy like, this is great. Do you think it would be a bad idea to write emails from Shonda Rhymes to people? And he said no, I think that would be a great idea, but I would wait until Scar handles off the year right now. No, I was like, it's April Fool's Day, like, how can

I not do this? And I just wrote an email to Tom Verica, our executive directing producer, and I wrote him an email from Shanda that just said not cool. Tom must have lost his ship. Well, as it turns out, he was in the middle of renegotiating his contract. This is just bad timing renegotiating. Josh, Are you fucking kidding me? Yeah? I figured he'd see it. He knows it's April fools will probably call me and be like, dude, did you

do this? Or he'll call Shana the laugh. But weeks passed and I was like, oh, maybe it didn't even go through, like a VI should worry about. Then I got this thing like go see them in their office and I sat down and they started saying, like Tom Verica got an email. I was like, oh, not cool Tom, Yeah, and they were like, don't impersonate. How did they even find out that it was you? They didn't. I think they they just went through. They were like, it's gotta

be Josh. Apparently there was a whole like Disney ABCNE investigation. Oh my god. I think they like, I don't think they forensically traced it to me. I think just someone said like, who's the asshole, who's most likely to have done this? I remember vague things after this came out that they were like, holy shit, Shanda thought she had been hacked. They had hired like people to look through with the server and make sure that no one else

was emailing up. The definitely escalated into something I didn't anticipate, as pranks sometimes do, and that was a bummer. And then the second time, which was really bad, was when Porscherosi, whom I love and played my love interest on and off, she was leaving. She was filming her final day, and so I took I can't even remember whether there was a sunscreen or vasoline, and I put it under the door handle on the driver's side of her crazy expensive car in the parking spot next to mine. Every day

I'd be like, oh a Lamborghini. Oh you've been wow, unbelievable. Look this is my love language. I wouldn't do it to somebody I didn't like, but I expected to hear from Porsche like that night or the next morning, like you got me, and blah blah blah. Never heard anything again. Weeks passed again, I finished filming a scene and somebody was like, you have to go straight to there. I'm like, no,

not this again. And I remember I went up there and I was nervously eating candy from the little candy jar waiting in the empty room too, I guess Shunda's thing. And she walked past me and the first time ever, she gave me a death stare, and I was like, oh my god, this is really bad, like because usually I can see she like kind of even though I'm a rasper, but this was dead. This was thousand yards stare. Like I just I ran Cole. I mean, I'm sweating

actually just telling the story. And I went in and I think I said, what is it this time? Like fray ice and they were not having it. They were not laughing, and I think I then said, please tell me this isn't about portions, car door handle, and they were like, yeah, as a matter of fact, that is what it's about. And again, bad timing didn't occur to me. The final scene she was filming spoiler alert, Can I give this? Maybe not? Okay. I believe she died by

being beaten to death with a golf club. Oh yeah, so she was leaving the show. I'm sure that had some emotion in it. She had filmed getting killed by golf club for seven hours, and at three in the morning she went to her car and she got a handful of asoline and she thought like, wow, somebody hates me. And I was like, whoa, no, And I remember saying that you're absolutely right to be upset about this. The last thing I wanted to do was upset her. I've

talked about doing this thing. I thought she would know immediately. Here's what I can tell you. I can tell you that I'm going to walk out of this office. I'm going to text Porsche and I give you my word, it's not going to be long before I come back with a text that's like, oh my god, you got me. And they were like okay, and I walked out and run.

I'm so sorry. I'm the one who did vassily and you know I love you, and it literally she wrote back like, oh my god, I love and I want back in and I was like, does this get me off the hook? I showed them my phone. God damn you, Josh, my guy. I remember Betsy saying essentially, we are accomplished women who have more important things to do than field phone calls from Elen DeGeneres, who's mad that her who

I was like, you know what, You're absolutely right. This is a reflection on the fact that I am not the complience. I have nothing but free time to do these kinds of things, and it really shouldn't spill over into your busy days. I'm terribly sorry. I would like to continue working here. Please accept my Oh God, and Josh. Because you are you, you will always get off, like I just think. I mean, I just even if it's by this the skin of your teeth, you will get off.

And I don't know why or how you've made it this far. I mean, that would scare me enough where I don't think I'll skate that close to the edge ever again. Because I was thinking if I have to call my wife and go like I lost my job as scandal and when she says why, I say, well, think kick out of this, and she would have been right, like, what's wrong with you? Grow up? You're in your fifties. Okay, next question, how the fuck did you? Okay, first of all,

I know you shit all over. Well, you're really interesting all over, like like being being an actor and like you know, you're not actorly in that, but it's really bullshit because I do think somewhere in your heart you of it. Oh no, I do love it. I'm not. I watched this episode and I was like, I'm always thinking, I'm going to think for the first time like that was pretty good. Not watching I was like, my voice is terrible bad ourselves though, because no one else is

thinking that, Josh, you're you're so good. Yeah, I'm not trying to make you say Oh, We've been saying it, yo. We've taped how many episodes already, and we are constantly saying how great you are. And this episode doesn't even it doesn't even show the caliber of your work. That episode when you wake up and there's a dead woman in your bed like you were, that was brilliant in that episode, such great work wrote you like amazing. I mean,

whether or not it's to your taste. They wrote for you sex scenes and murder and fucking jury shit and like you're a school teacher and you're afraid and you're like you got to do a lot of Yeah. Absolutely. For the first few episode I thought I was on a procedural. I was like, this is where you basically give the same performance in the same character for seven years hopefully or eight years and nine years and nothing changes.

Then like whatever. A few episodes in, I was like, what I read the script like, she's having sex in the shower. Yeah. I was just like, oh, this is insane. And then a few more episodes later, I'm like, oh my god, I'm part of the insanity. There's still by the way, people who can't believe, like there's a woman who's been tweeting the last couple of weeks like not another sex scene with Josh Malina, like, Shanda, what are

you doing? I was like, if you think you were surprised to be seeing me have sex, or do you think how surprised I was to open a script and be like, I'm having you and Abby. Abby and David Rosen were like the first couple I feel like on the show where we were like, oh my god, these are two lead characters that were going to put together like in a sexual scenario, and you guys had such I was surprised you guys. Oh, you guys were really good, but you were also like that that mean big brother

who would do shit to Darby. Like on set, I remember we'd be rehearsed you're opa or wherever we had a scene and she would be holding her side. If she was sitting on a chair that had wheels, you would grab her and wheel her like fifty feet away too, or you would smack her sides like, oh josh, there are definitely people listening. Now we're laughing as if it's great, and there are people listening to how going he is, but you're Shanda's always talking about her No, Ashole apologies,

like how did this go? I'm telling you we've talked about this on this podcast. You won't listen to it, so it doesn't matter. But let me tell you your face. No, we talk about how fucking good you are. And my question is I don't understand how you're that good when you don't try and I try so hard, And how do you memorize lines in the makeup chair? Yeah? Why

does your brain work like that? Like we just watched the episode that where we're like, you sit and you have this amazing monologue where you're like, stab, stab stab, Oh, how I love to stab And it's a whole monologue that's iron and Harrison like stop talking, stop talking, and you just go on and on and on. But like, do you never prepare or the night before look over stuff? What's your process? That's a good question. Just because Shanda listens to this, I want to defend myself. I take

it seriously to on a certain level. I do try. I read a script once to be like, let's see what the story is. Although if I'm probably honest, I read my scenes first. I do that too, though I do that too. Now that it's all delivered Electrono be, you can just search En Rosen Rosen, like, Okay, that's all my stuff. Now, let's figure out what's going on. And then when it was scandal, I would always send the script to my dad and then I'd be like, so explain to me what's going on. Oh my god,

I should have done that. Me and Katie should have done that. Send it to your dad, because sometimes we would be like, what's happening? Yeah? I was like, my dad and my mom are like my biggest supporters, and they always watched it and they kept track of it. I'm actually at their house right now, and I would often say to my dad, so, like, talk me through, like plot wise, I don't know why am I in court and I'm defending who what I you remember in

season three and you killed that? And then so they watch everything you ever do, like backwards and forwards, just because they love you and they're so proud of you pretty much. Yes, that's true. They're very very supportive Jewish parents, so sweet. I do have a very good memory for dialogue. I don't know what I have for Lench yesterday, but I can remember dialogue very quickly. Has that changed since

COVID or in Age? No? I don't think so. Now and now I'm doing plays, I realized how much I had trained myself to learn dialogue quickly and forget it quickly, Like if if I did shot this dialogue on Monday, I knew it cold, but on Tuesday Garol had that too, like an amazing short term memory. You can plug it in and then the next day it's fucking gone. The minute we walk off set, when that scene is done,

it's out of my brain, like it's gone. And Katie would be like, let's try to do that scene we did like last month, and I was like, Katie, what are you talking about? I can't even remembering what I would do it for fun. I memorize long haul though, like I'm such a theater bitch. But okay, if you had a big monologue on Scandal, would you learn it the night before or always in the makeup chair? Like

what were you doing? I would definitely familiarize myself with it the night before, feeling that and not just out of laziness, but like some some smart person once said to me, like, you want to learn your stuff for TV, but just shy of knowing it cold so that it'll appear like you're finding it a little bit, like you know, seem like a human being. Yeah, it doesn't sound like they memorize something. So I got I'm very good at finding the line where like I got it pretty much.

I'm gonna sleep on out and gonna wake up and in the makeup chair, I'm gonna nail it down and I'll probably run it with the other persons also in the makeup chair. But I do remember one awkward day where we were all looking at our sides and I said something like, you know, you guys reminded who's Christine? And everybody just slowly looked at me in there like are you kidding? Like the whole season is about this character, Like I don't know, I just remember being really embarrassed.

I was like, oh, you're being see or you were like really no, I really don't know. I was like, I don't understand this scene. Why are we also obsessed with Christine or whatever it was? And they were just like, what is wrong with you? I was embarrassing. Wait, do you ever think about like what do I want in

a scene? Or what's my moment before or anything? No? Right, like you just I just think you have that same actor chip in your brain, like like you're really good at text obviously between Sorkin and this show, like text is not an issue for you, and you're I'm telling you, Josh, your work in these two seasons. I'm so jealous because I know you're not right like my action or my objective or my like you know, thinking about beats or shifts. You You're just there. Yeah, I feel like I have

a good instinct for it. But the truth is, usually when I watched my work, I'm like you were fine. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not usually like you, Like I'm horribly insecure. But maybe if I did some of those things you're saying, I'd be better than Maybe. I know. I that's what makes you so good. That's not part of your process. Do you think that is? Like, I think there's some effortlessness to something that's so difficult, you making it look like it's so fucking easy. Yeah, this

is for ladies and gentlemen. Josh Melina is about to be starring back on Broadway. He's been on Broadway before. If you can catch him, you should. In leopolch Doad written by the one and only fucking Tom Stoppard. I already have my tickets. I'm going June tenth with eight family members. Katie, I want to go, come with me June eighth. I'm going to see any gladiators listening. June eighth, I will be at Leopolchtads screaming and probably crying. It's

that script is remarkable, It's amazing he's writing. I was seventeen, almost eighteen, and my dad's best friend was and still is Manny Aisenberg's famous amazing producer who produced Tom Stoppard's The Real Thing on Broadway. So I got invited to opening night and as a seventeen year old, I was suing and I was just like the writing like blue my mind is writing is unreal, and that literally forty years later, I believe him. See, this is why people

keep you around. Really quickly. Since we're talking about some pass work, I'm gonna rattle off some of Josh's credits, give it because I live it this up and I was like, oh my God, Like, there's so much and so much epic projects that he's done. A few good men, the American President, Tracy takes on clock Watches with my buddy Parker Posey, The Larry Sanders Show, Sports Night, The West Wing, Stargate, Grey's Anatomy, I Carly and my favorite Big Bank theory of course. But I'm also like a

huge horror film fan. And you haven't been in a hart Phone, but you were in a thriller called Malice that Aaron Sorkin also wrote. Correct. Yes, but I was in one horror movie horror comedy called The Knights of Badass. Oh, and I think Steve zn was in it, Peter dank Lidge. It was comedy horror about a bunch of Larper's live action role players. I'm gonna watch it tonight and I'm coming over and I'm getting stoned and I'm watching it

with you. Yes, it was low budget to begin with and then they didn't get the full effects budgets, like there's I know the director is not happy with like how it turned out, and I spoiler alert, have my jaw ripped off as I'm being filated by a wood tea. Well, listen, I went out Amazon Prime and I bought Malice because I wanted to watch it. When I looked up your credit, Josh plays this really cute like resident doctor or nurse

who comes out and speaks to Bill Pullman. But it's a really fun like old school like eighties thriller movie. Well the funny. Patrick Marber, the director, when he was talking to me about potentially doing the role, said, and you know it takes place in Vietna, but we've toyed with doing Viens or German. We didn't do that, and it opened in London, so everyone, you know, he said, you don't have to sound British, but you can't sound America.

Can do in Mexican like everyone isditionalist. So you're not even doing like heightened American, like like the Gilded Age or something. No, it's pretty fifty years ago. You couldn't get a foot in, you couldn't travel without a permit. That's really good, Josh, it's really good. Thank you. We will be back with more after the break now that I'm trying to jog my memory about like David Rosen's journey. Okay, so you auditioned for the role. Yes, Shanna was into you.

You went, got called to the principal's office a few times. You had love interests with Abby Porsha and were you also with um Artemis. Yes, our missus lovely A Susan Oh and Zoe Perry and Zoe Perry and off camera but dirty, dirty Susie whatever her name was, with the way, we didn't when we have Shanna back on, got to ask her like, I don't think there's a single character on our show that went through that many Like, what's that about? For sure? That is just Shana going. I

can do anything on television. I can take the least attractive oldest member of my cast and have him have more Susan. I'm telling you that's exactly what it is. You were successfully pranked by us and the Jimmy Kimmel Show. Remember, Oh Kimmel happens to be in this episode. Yes, Kimmel is in an episode two one, that's right, and he's interviewing the congressman Jacob Shaw, who's the case of the week, and we love Kimmel, but he approached us like by the end of Scandal, they were like, we want to

get Josh. And they spent so much money on this prank, Like, well, first of all, I had had an idea and I remember pitching our pr people like Bachelor has all these watch parties, and the Bachelor people show up, they're surprised. They love it, like everybody's having their wine and popcorn Scandal watching part parties. Why don't we like surprise a few people and like maybe it's a nice way to go out with the final season. And they did it through Good Morning America and Tony was the first and

this was all part of the Yeah. Then they were like, Josh, you have to do one of these And I actually really didn't watch, like I don't want to do it, but it really speaks to your horror, which is as much as Josh, Willie's a prankster, smartest person in the room keeps his life interesting by like really pushing boundaries with people. But Josh, you with fans is ridiculous, Like you give them all the time in the world. You're

nice to say. I mean, I know you're very nice to say that, and I know it comes from like I can't believe anybody's happy to see me, so I'm like, gotta keep your fans happy, like so you keep in business, and like also just appreciation for people who are appreciating me, Like Scandal fans are the best I did enjoy. So the prank was about them asking you to show at

the end of this run. You know, they asked me and Josh to come to a Scandal Roch watch party and they we knew they would be watching Scandal and we would walk in and it was up to me to convince Josh that he should use a confetti blower thing. And when we call in, god one of those guns a confetti cannon. I remember, we go in, they're watching Candle Can See and we pop in with our with our camera. Boom, I pulled the confettiti hey, and like

everyone's laughing and having fun. And then I see the mom in her chair like seemed really startled by the confetti can clutching her chest for this and she's actually clutching her chest and I'm starting to think, like, oh, that was this is bad. We really, we really scared this woman. Then I'm like, oh, no, she'sn't. Actually she's a medical discomper, and I will admit it was nice enough to like I definitely I went over and I think I held her hand and I was trying to

calm down. The one thing I did was also cover my ass because I'm thinking that if she died, did I kill her? Is this like second agreement? Voluntary? Man? And you can see me in the actual video of

the press. I'm only being quiet because I can't believed this. No, I'm saying, and I say to her something like they handed me the thing, or yeah, it wasn't my idea, sort of like I'm trying to lay down my legal case for when And then next thing I know, I hear I hear a siren and like an ambulance has been called, and I'm like, oh my god, this is actually happening. And the paramedics burst through with the COT but one of the paramedics is Jimmy Kimmel, and my

mind is like, what's going on? And I'm like, why You've got me so bad? They throw me into the stretcher. I'm deeply embarrassed, but also usually really that I didn't kill this woman. And they wheel me outside, and unbeknownst to me, they were concerned that I would not fall for it and they wanted to back up freaking frank. So there's a fire engine in the driveway and I get sit up and they blast me from the what Oh yeah, they blasted with a fire hole the old

lady actress. I had been there all day rehearsing for like three hours, like different ways the scene could go. I have never done a prank in my entire life. I am so wildly uncomfortable with making people upset or feel bad or like pranking to me is like I'm one of those people that gives it up right away. I'm like, I'm just kidding, We're just so. Then I remember the garage door slowly opening and there's like video village is in there, and we all have earbuds in

like all the actors in a scene. The older woman who pretend to have a heart attack me, we had earbuds in case. The director was like, oh, it was insane. They spent like a billion dollars. It was insane. And

also I remember before we did it, our publicist. I think it was Chris and Anderson at the time, calling you and saying, do you know if Josh has ever had a heart attack or if someone recently that he loves has had a heart attack, because we want to do this, but we also like don't want it to go horribly awry in case it like God, we don't know, like maybe his aunt or someone just had a heart attack and he's just going to be Oh, that's actually

very unwell. And I remember thinking afterwards I wish I had been onto what they were doing. If I figured it out, I could have then pretended myself to have a heart attack and see if I could survived it. I would not have the best man ever. But unfortunately, it turns out that the fact that you do practical jokes and pranks for thirty years doesn't mean that you're any less gullible than anybody else. Because I fell for it completely. I remember actually texting Kimmel when I was

going to bed that night. I was like, well done, and he rubbed back to me like was that real? Did you really fall for that? Like he actually almost couldn't believe it. I was like, dude, that was a h but how could you not? That wasn't just like a run of the mill fucking thing. I mean that was like actors who would rehearse if we were doing the drop in for Kimmel's, if you would have America my mind. But I don't think good Morning America is

doing this. Nothing occurred. Luckily you have Kimmel's phone number. Fucking Katie has sean to rhyme's phone number number. Wait really quickly about this episode? What was the parts and you watched last night that you thought you were uh yeah, in the courtroom. I have memories of shooting this episode

because it was a lot of me. It was a lot of a lot of people sitting well, I strut around doing things, and part of it was literally vocally, I was like, I don't sound like you want to you know when you're like, and isn't it true you want to be one of those you say what the hell? Hell? You keep saying what the hell when they let Quinn in this episode to jog all of your listeners memory, this is the episode where who is Quinn Perkins? Who is Quinn Perkins? But wait, okay, so you thought your

acting was bad? You say what the hell? A lot what did you feel like when you read this script? Not about this episode where Darby us to put her hand in your mouth or you're something like that. I felt very similarly to the way I felt when I finally watched it. I was like, I don't know what's going on? Is this supposed to be sexy? Is this some sort of BDSM? Is this? And I was hot? I read it, we shot it, I watched it, and I still never figured out what Josh I can't um Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait,

there's more, There's more, this more, okay. This is the first episode that marked both Bellama Young and Josh Molina a series regulars. You guys went to Yale, but not at the same time. She is younger than I, so she she knew who I was. She did not, She did no, I think, because I think we were actually maybe in Guys and Dolls together. The idea that she may have had a smaller roller or been in the ensemble and I had a lead. It's funny because I can't sing and she has a beautiful voice. Did you

do a ton of plays in college? Josh? I did. Yeah, I'm an undergraduate theater said he's major. Every now and then people think like, oh, you went to Yale drama school. I'm like, no, I went to the other one and was a drama made. I went to the knot because they just drama school, but I knew I wanted to be an actual already, and my parents were like, for the love of God, get a college degree. Also, what

it was your degree in. It's not like it didn't help me at all with acting and wouldn't have helped me in anything else. Do you remember what the first play was that you did? There? I do, I did. Christopher Durrang's sister, Mary Ignatius explains it all. Wow, do you have any memories from the first two seasons that stick out? Do you have any memories from the pilot? I remember shooting those scenes at the door with Kerry

and scene in a bar with Kerry. Most of my stuff was with Kerry, and I just remember liking her a lot, like like I just remember vibing like she's cool. First of all, Like whenever the number one person on the culture it is cool. It's like, yeah, this is a very good sign. Did you feel like at the end of season one, like we're definitely going to get a season too? Did you feel like it would was going to be one hundred and twenty four episodes show.

I just remember early on thinking it was a procedural approach, and procedurals, if they hit, they last a long time. Yeah, they last a long time, and they're they're worth a lot in syndication because you can play him in any order and it doesn't matter, and people can pop in and watch a rerun or whatever. And then once it started turning into this insane show that was burning through plot, I was like, oh my god, this episode has as much plot as a full season of another show, Like

this cannot sustain. So I started getting nerves. Even as the show was getting like better and more interesting and crazy and it was fun, I was like, this is gonna this might be a death sentence. We'd already shot the president by like the thirteenth episode in it, It's like,

what the fuck are I gonna do? No, exactly. I underestimated the fiendish creative mind of Shanda Rhimes and her writers because like they never had any problem coming up with seven plots per episode that were completely insane, and like, oh, they can keep this running as long as they want, Like this is why I'm not a writer and they are.

But then I also remember when it was like taking off on Twitter and I was like again literally like butterflies on my stumble, Like I think this maybe turning into a thing like everybody's talking about and people are stopping me in the street, Like it really was a fun ride with an incredible group of people, Like to get one of those in a career is like more than you can hope for. I remember thinking, is this going to be like a Graze Anatomy situation? Like are

we gonna go for like twelve thirteen seasons? And then you know, obviously Shanda knew there was a beginning, middle, and an end to the to the show, and she let us know that it was ending it. But I think we were all so bummed, right because the network wanted us to keep going. I was like, wait what, I know. I was definitely. I even remember as Shanda was telling us in the conference call like that she

was ending it. I was text neighbor and we're like, god, yeah, you were texting me like oh yeah, like how could you we have the white whale? We have the fucking white hat. Yeah, you're the best. I'm so excited to see you. Yeah, this is so much fun. I realized how much I'm missing that. When I don't see you, I don't miss you at all. But now that I'm seeing you, I really I was like I did like

them more than they realized. To our gladiators, I haven't earned it a dime since the show went off the air, but thank you for that brief window in my life when I didn't have to worry about money for like five years. It's awesome all because of you, guys, Josh, you had the best. We love you. Love you, guys. Tell George we love him and we'll be bugging him asap. I'll tell him he's not on the show. Twe tweetie, tweet, tweet, tweet,

twet tweet. Oh my god. People were fucking pumped from these tweets because this was the fucking season two premiere at ABC. Scandal fans tweet so ready for at Scanal babyc premiere hashtag one minute, don't hate hashtag, asked Scandal, and Lisa at Belenoir tweeted homemade shrimp hashtag I'm fancy retweet call me dolla. What y'all bringing to the Scandal watch party? So she made some cocon A shrimp and

brought it to a Scandal watch party. A m at Everybody Loves DJ wrote, I'm ready to find out who the hell Quinn is tonight hashtag scandal ugh real yah at two Underscore, tol says, what the fuck is Quinn Perkins? Hashtag Scandal, hashtag gladiers in suits? Everyone's talking about Quinn at Chrissy B. Davis wrote, I had so many thoughts as to who Quinn could be. Will be happy to

finally find out tonight hashtag scandal. I like that, And then Aaron at Aaron J. Cruise tweeted who of the Scandal cast is the most like the character they play? Hashtag asked Scandal. That's when we were doing that hashtag asked Scandal And then we would, you know, answer as many questions as we could, Yes, we did. Hashtag as Scandal forever. Who do you think is most like the character that they play? Fucking I think Carrie Washington as Olivia.

I think so too in some ways. In some ways she's Olivia is not goofy, right, and Carrie's got a lot of Olivia popiner. I think I and Quinn have a lot of smarties. I think Josh Molina and David Rosen have some stuff. Everybody has a little bit of it, you don't, I mean, you know in the in the being quiet and sometimes wanting to be alone, and I could see that being you know, similar to myself and to talk. Yeah, but howk you literally make your voice

and the mask of your face different. Oh yeah, Like you do things as your face is garmo that you don't do on your face as huk. That's so true. That's so true. Like you have a mask that actually like changes, which is fucking amazing to behold. Yeah. The next episode is called Grant for the People People. I don't remember what the fuck happened. I have no idea, but y'all are going to want to listen and stay tuned because you know it's going to be a good time.

We gotta go watch it now, so we're ready for the next episode of this podcast. Any Gladiators that don't think Josh Willne is hot enough to have a sex scene leave him alone. He's so hot. I think he's sexy, sexy. I do too. Also, I'm so jealous that he's going to have lunch right now with George Newburn of the Century City Mall, we should go crashtass ship right now, he invited us. Did you get that text? No, I haven't even looked at my phone because we're doing a podcast.

He texted us yesterday saying, Yo, I'm not sure what time you guys stopped recording, but I'm going to have lunch with George Newburn if you both like to come. Oh I didn't get that, but whatever, we don't want to go anyway. That is, yeah, but yo, Josh is so freaking smart and talented and fun to talk to, Like we could have done this for like three more hours, you know, Like he's so much fun. I love all the best, and he really was an important energy on Scan.

He really wasn't important. He has so many great episodes where his work is superstellar. So we're definitely going to have him back. Yes, absolutely. I love you all so much. Thank you for listening. Thank you everyone, Thank you guys for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate, or leave us a review. Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey,

Alex AlCH, Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is Vince De Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher. Scandal is a production of ABC Signature, and you can follow along by rewatching Scandal on Hulu. Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.