106: The Trail w/ Tony Goldwyn

said like she's a house there. But I also think I could email my person and be like, can a freak in hotels? Right? Host us in Cabo, Like, but the whole cast, the Scandal cast to come. We'll do a photo shoot whatever you want. I'm not going to be in a bathing suit, but I will be in a cover up. Yes, hell yeah. I think what you'll all hear as we continue these episodes is like it really was such a special group. Yeah, like we really like we were really like a family, like and it

stayed that way. Years have passed and we're still super close and we all love each other and yeah, and that's rare. We are so pumped for today's episode because the biggest fucking deal is here today. Did you U still love the episodes he would direct us on, oh all the time? Yeah. And you know we always talk about like how great it is having a director that's also an actor because they know how to talk to us, they know our sort of you know, when we when

we're feeling extra vulnerable or like insecure. He's just so so loving, so so great working with him. He's so great that almost sometimes he's too good because I've had so many Have I told you this before. I've had a couple actor friends, No, actually more than a couple audition for various projects as he's directed in the last ten years since I've become his friend, and they always text me the same like I got it, Katie through so amazing, I got it, And I always want to

be like, you did it. That's just Tony, Like he's he's so sweet, and he always takes the most time and care in the room with the actors like that, you end up spending like forty five minutes in there and you think like, holy shit, I got this part, and I'm like, no, that's just Tony oh man, all right, we're done with the logistics because our one, our only, Fitzgerald Grant the third is here. Yay, We're so forget man. We're so happy to have you, Tony. Thank you for

making the time. We love you. The scandal Rewatch podcast has just sneakingly become me and Garmo's way of like hanging out with all of our friends. Yeah, I know, man, Before we talked about the trail, Tony, can you tell us how in the hell you got this part? Man? It was just luck. It was luck. I swear it

was the weirdest thing I had. I had met Sean Dune Betsy because I directed one of the first grays anatomies and it was like one of the first television shows I had directed, and so I got to know them, like what it was before Grays had aired. I think it was the third, second or third episode of the show. It was a third, but it shot second or something like that, or the second and it shot third, but

they had made the pilot, which was unbelievably good. And then so I think like Betsy had liked my first film or something and said would you want to do this? And I saw the pilot, I was like, oh shit, this is like super commercial but also really original and amazing actors one of my period. Yeah, so I met them and then met Shandu. I thought was brilliant and unusual as you guys know, and like just such an in. I was like, Oh, this woman's gonna be successful, like

you just knew she knew what she was doing. And then so I did. I think I did a couple of episodes of Grades Anatomies as a director, never acted, and then she asked me a year or two later to do a private practice for them, and then we like, didn't you know, I don't think we saw each other for years, and out of the blue I got a call saying Shanda is doing this show with Kerry Washington

and once did you want to play the President? And I had and I had been dying to work with Carrie because I knew her a little bit, like through politics stuff. And then but I every time I would see Kerry Washington in a movie, I'd be likes that amazing actress in that part, like who the hell is that? She looks familiar? And at the end, I go, oh my god, that's Kerrie Washington. Every time I saw her, she was totally different. So I'd been kind of looking

to work. So I heard Shanda carry. I literally didn't read the script. I was like, I this sounds like something I really want to do, and then I read it and thought, oh man. But it was cool because Shanda I called her up or she said, let's talking and she said, look, I don't know how big or small this thing is going to be, or I mean the role. She said, you can be in it a little bit if you want, You give me in it a lot if you want. I don't really know where

it's going. You know. There was the intimation of romance at the end of the pilot in the script, but you know, when they kiss in the oval office. But I thought, well that could get interesting. But I wasn't sure because it would inhibit me from directing films, you know, And I was like, I'm not sure I want to do it. I was so stupid, you know, Is that what you wanted to really like do at that time? Tony? Did you want to keep directing? Were you digging that

I wanted to keep directed? But can I be totally honest, I had just directed my film Conviction. Yeah, and it was one of those things you know in Hollywood when you have those moments, anyone's like this is the one that's going to be huge, and it's like whatever. Anyway, it wasn't. It was like the movie didn't open and didn't do business. So I was like, oh, okay, that movie was so hard to get made, and I thought, oh my god, I don't know if I like I

want to keep directing. But that was that took. It took you like seven years or something to get it off. Yeah, eight years to get that movie off to go. I kept coming to life and falling and parting him in life, and it was by the time we made it, it it was it was you know, I loved it, but it was it was exhausting. So then I thought I should be smart to think about like doing a series because television is transformed, and like I should just be not

an idiot anyway. So then literally right after that was when I got this out of the blue call from from Shawanda, and then we talked and she was so chill about it. She was like, what if you want to do seven, you can seventy. So I said, of course, and and um, I was sort of thinking about it. My manager Jason was like, you're doing this those things, I don't care what. Stop thinking about any your say you say yes because this could be a huge hit.

It was like, yeah, okay, okay. Did you have any hang ups about like being a president, Like had you always wanted to play a president or were you like, wow, I'm gonna go Like I mean the presidents. I think of Pullman, Martin Sheen, I think of like you know you're in that. You know now you could if this show was a hit, which it is or where is it? Like it was like, whatever, great, I didn't even think about that. I thought it'd be cool, Like I thought,

what an interesting character. Yeah, and I saw this really potentially interesting relationship with Olivia. I thought, if that goes somewhere, that could be really interesting. But honestly, you never know what the hell anything's going to be. And the thing for me was that first day of rehearsal when I met you guys. Oh it just clicked right, I said,

oh shit, do you remember that? Like, wait, take us through it, because this is another question, like memories from the pilot, what do you mean like rehearsal when we were in that stage and it was like taped off. It was one of those rare things I've experienced so infrequently in my life and in my career. We all just connected. Man. It was I felt like I was with my best friends from high school all of a sudden, like you and then Darby was just cast that day.

I remember showing up and being like, Hi, I'm DeBie. I just got this part, you know, and hearing your story Katie about how you auditioned and you know, and amazing story about it. You got it, and you know Jeff who I knew it a little bit, but it had been admired for so long and Kate and Kate Burton was later right, Gee and I have this long history of but but there was that day of all of us connect. I don't know, I just remember it

being this rehearsal period. We had like a week of rehearsal at at what I'm called Prospects Studios, and I don't know, I just I that was one of those things where I thought, oh man, it was that's incredible chemistry we all had. It was so fun, don't you. Yeah? Oh my god. It was like it was like theater camp. Like it was just felt like really everybody connected and fell in love and really trusted each other and was so into the script and the stories and the greater

good of the show. Like it just felt like we were part of something bigger than ourselves. Yeah, and it feels like they took such a chance, right, It felt like it's like a crapshoot, like putting this cast together. And of course Linda Lowey is brilliant and she made it happen. But even my audition, I auditioned once and then I booked her. I think a lot of us just auditioned once, if even auditioning at all. But just the fact that it worked, right, that it worked like

that could have gone downhill really quickly. Nobody could have chemistry, or we could have you know, not liked each other, but it just it clicked. It worked. It was like like you said, it was like magic, so crazy. So you never chemistry read with Carrier or anything like how did you know? Wow? Like did you know that the relationship was going to be fire? Like because I'm convinced

the show. Look, the show was amazing, but like the thing that hooked people and when I realized the show was a hit was when you became in your fifties, which I want to ask you about a full on fucking sex symbol. So thank god you listen to your manager. But when I first walked into our you know, Scandal was a real slow burn. It wasn't like an overnight success.

We really had a short first order, you know. And I remember walking into some press event in the middle of second season next to you, Tony, and girls literally screaming at you like you were a beatle or something. And you never chemistry read you never auditioned, So we never knew that the fitz Olivia thing would be what

it was. No, and Shanda, I don't think she knew that she wanted it to be necessarily the only thing I like, I said, I had really admired Carry so much and wanted to work with her and the thing I felt with Ry, which I frankly thought with all of you guys, but I really felt it with her, and our relationship was primary. We just connected as actors like Kerrie and I never had to talk about anything.

It was weird, man. We never like Jeff and I connected in a different way like Jeff and I was like every day, especially in the first season, we would spend, we kind of latched onto each other and would talk about lactor stuff, you know, like our back Well, what do you think that, you know, we give each other books about politics, and that we just were doing nerdy actor talk. Oh my god, yours, I'm obsessed with this.

We had that kind of a relationship with hilarious. But Kerrie and I, like with scenes, we would never even discuss them. We just had the same perspective on everything. So we come up and we do it. Yep, pretty much. Wow that we just had the same orientation towards stuff and the same kind of way of working or something. I don't know. So I remember feeling, oh, this is just easy, this is just works, this this creatively we

so that we literally I don't think we ever discussed. Yeah, it was almost like, let's not look too close at this because it's working. Like, let's not even like try to examine or take the specialness out of it. Let's just just because it was so trippy for us too, because we were in our opa world so we didn't you know, our characters didn't encounter you guys that much.

And we would talk so much shit and good stuff too, about the White House, the White House must be so boring, right, we're so much we have so much fun here at it was way more boring. But then there were the moments when you would come and direct us, which was so much fun. And I mean it was like like wrangling cats. I bet right, like we were just when first it was like becoming a kindergarten teacher. We were

not getting trouble. You would yell, but like you were like and you weren't the only one like you fully Verica. They'd be like, come on, kids, stop it. You guys have attention, stop it stop never stopped talking. So I would just go action. Yeah, I told you that's that's the way to do it. Yeah. And Katie's brilliant at that. She would be talking about the story and then she'd go right into playing Quinn. I don't think that's brilliant.

I think that's just like I don't have a lot of stakes as an actor, which I can't do, Like literally, if I do that, I'm gonna be like a mess on the play. I can't I have the I I can't have that facility. I know. How did all of the memorization scandal, pace, all of that come to you? Was that easy for you being word perfect? Like, did you that wasn't too hard? I enjoyed it because it's

very much like working in the theater, isn't it. I mean, yeah, here's the other amazing thing about Shanda I felt on that experience. She was so clear from day one what was important to her. There was like those are the ground rules? Great? Like she said, I remember that talk she gave us. She said, I will, I will take any input you have to give me. But I what did she say? It didn't end up sticking, but she said I needed twenty hours after the table read give

me a note. I do not want something on set, and what I write is music to me, so I need you to say the words exactly as I write them. And then it was the whole thing about speaking fast, which she kept on us about it. But so I thought that was like a really interesting technical challenge, and it was like and so I was down with it. I really enjoyed that technical challenge. You know, we're so many other sets that you work on as a film

or television actor, and that's great too. People are ad libbing all the time and paraphrasing, and you know that that has its place with certain kinds of writing. But we've talked about Tony how how we've gone on to other projects and they have to literally be like you you have to slow down. Can you slow down a bit? Because now I'm just like, but like every single time it makes the scene better, I think even better and stuff beyond scanned. I'm like, y'all got to pick up

the pace. Like it's so they're just sitting there not remembering their lines. That's why you're waiting. They're sitting there making a dramatic choice, but really is because they don't know what they're saying next. Yeah, I know That's how I feel better. I love that you and Jeff are over there all studying politics and Shita were like winds

were like making dance routines. Literally the crew. Some crew people are like, get is starting to get pissed off at us, Like I remember sometimes he'd be like because we get into like the giggle like you know thing too where we couldn't stop laughing and they're all like, we've been working for fifteen hours together. Yeah. I remember the first time I directed Josh Millne because I'm such a like acting nerds and Josh this whole thing for those who don't know. First of all, Joshua is brilliant.

He's just a brilliant human being. So he has this incredible facility for everything he does. He has total disdain for craft of acting, or at least you know, potentially so, so I think he really loves it. But but he Josh would be like, um, he never would look at his lines until he was in the makeup chiller that morning and you look at it once and he'd have it all down. And it's just the way his brain worked,

and every actor works differently. But so in I think that first episode I directed, whatever one it was, it was in the heat of the relationship between Josh and up yeah, between David and Abbey, right, so, and it was a very fraught relationship. And I remember giving Josh a note once about something about his emotional like need Abby.

I said, Josh, I really think, you know, like if you try it again, that's great, but try it again, and I really want to feel that, you know, some some psychological thing about you know, his feelings for Abby. And he's like, yeah, whatever, but completely disrespected me. He's like, I'll just just mean, just do it faster. Oh, my god. Oh he totally blew me off and I and I was like, okay, well, and of course he was great, but yeah, Josh is so funny. We will be back

with more after the break. We have to talk about where you came from, which is like, obviously you have a very long, beautiful, amazing career in so many mediums film, TV, tons of theater. Also, by the way, I love that it scandal our vice president president. We used to talk about this. Did you guys talk about this that our vice president president were like Hollywood royalty, like just between Tony Goldwyn of Metro Goldwyn Mayor and then Kate Burton

of Richard Burton. I was like the royals all up in our show. But I wanted to know did it feel crazy to you to like be I remember looking at some magazine and you were like in a bathtub, and I was like, oh my god, like this person like this is crazy, Like had you already written off? Like oh, like I was a movie star. I did ghost like in my three days, like or was this a shock scanned me? I was a shock And I was also glad I was kind of a bit older because I had a great sense of humor about it,

and I could just really enjoy it. Yeah, when I had my first success with Ghosts and I was like twenty nine years old or whatever, it was amazing and fun. I was so grateful because I'd already been working for five or six years and you know, struggling and all that. I was very grateful, but I was super stressed out

by it because I didn't understand what that like. All of a sudden, when you have success in our job, you go from being completely ignored by everybody and then everyone's kissing your ass and shining right on you and telling you you're a genius. And it felt fraudulent to me when I was young, so I didn't quite know how to handle it, and it was kind of stressful, whereas with Scandal, I was fifty and I couldn't believe it. I was like, it was also a lesson, and you

can't plan shit in your life. You could have goals and you can try for things, but it's just to have a give yourself a bit of a direction that hopefully follows something you are passionate about or want to do. You can't plan shit, So I could not have planned for that all the years I wasted thinking Okay, it's gonna go this way. Yeah, so that whole time I was just like, just enjoy this ride. Man. It was um So, the whole thing of like, you know, the sex symbol factor of fits was it was. It was,

It was fun, it was amusing. And I mean, didn't girls like ask you to sign their bodies? I feel like women were asking you to sign their bodies. People did some intense ship tell us. Yeah, oh I well. The two that come to mind was when I was directing the pilot for The Divide up in Toronto, um we uh or maybe the series, I can't remember, but we were I was in the look a Break from Scandal and I would get stopped on the street as

we all were, by people wanting a selfie. And this girl I told her the story, This girl takes a selfie and she's giving a selfie. She tries to make out with me and I avert my mouth and she licks my neck. She licked my neck full on, like licked like like you like you licked um, like you like Katie's neck? Yeah, like right and yeah, someone like we both lick and then she licked me in another episode. Yeah, yeah,

it was like that. I was like, whoa. And then she got herself and she walked away, so I was like okay. And then the other intense thing is I'm not so long ago. A few years ago, after scandal ended, I was doing Network on Broadway and a woman had been waiting outside the theater to get my autograph and Brian Cranston comes. I guess I hadn't gone out. Maybe it was like I don't know. I was hanging out in the theater and Brian said, did you see the

woman with the tattoo when you when? And I was like, he said, Tony, there's a woman who wants to meet you, who has a tattoo of you on her arm. Oh my god, like what? And I ended up I ended up going by, I mean, maybe going out later, and she wasn't there. And then the next day it was a Sunday, I think, the matinee and I came out of here and she was still there and a guy comes up and says, hey, could my sister meet you? You know, she's a big fan of yours. I said,

of course. And because people that don't go to broder as, you guys both know, like people who wants weight the actress come out, Yeah, and he and this sweet young woman who must have been twenty five years old comes up to me and she's like, you know, I really admire your work and I'm such a huge scandal fan and I whatever you're I don't know if she was like, and I want to be a filmmaker and you're whatever. Not for profit work you do just means so much to me. And so I got a tattoo of my

face on her arm? What is it fit? Its picture? Is it just you in a T shirt? It's just you know, it's kind of like me. It was like my so like a headshot, but it was like, I guess, but it was me. It was it was so I said, oh, and I she asked me to sign her arm, and UM, you did, did you? I said? Of course? But what I meant I was like, whoa, that was pretty intense commitment.

I mean, God bless her about whoa. There's that double standard at Shanda Land, which is like, I want to ask you about that, the double standard at Shanda Land for you all listening, you know, early on, it's it's very known that I think Shanna came up to me and was like oh, I wrote you a sex scene. If you want me to rewrite it for you to be in a turtleneck, I will, And I said amazing, And then she was like, but also here it's a double standard and the guys have to take off their

shirts a lot. So did you know that going in? No, But it was I was okay with it, you know, um, I mean again, I just sent to Humor about it and Shando again, she was pretty straight up about it, like she didn't play games. She said, this is important to me and I obviously if I had said I refused to do something, she or I'm comfortable, she would have respected that. And it was it's not like full on nudity. It's taking our shirts off. So it was, you know, like Scott and I had our like every

every table, he'd be like, okay, dude, you're up this week. Yeah, you know, he's just like trade off which guy was gonna thinking shirt off? It was pretty funny. I remember thinking, thank god, I just play Huck, who you know rarely takes a shirt off. But you guys had like that pressure of being like, oh my god. And then the next episode I have a sex scene. I gotta take my shirt off. I remember you always eating salads with two no like tender green. Remember that was like I was, honestly,

Scott was more like intense about that Scott eating. Yeah, I think Scott worried, you know, worried more about it. I just, um, I don't know. Look at my my attitude towards you're genetically blessed. Let's put that out there. Thank you Tony Goldwin's as from above for giving Tony Goldwin a six pack that cannot be taken down by a meal or of one. Right, so I would have

my meal recastaurant. But but also it was it stressed me out too much to stress about it, so I I just stayed in a like a baseline level of fitness, which made me feel better and able to work long hours anyway. So I was like, all right, this is what this job is. So it was so I didn't even get too spartan about it, because I think Scott

would like literally starve himself. Oh yeah, like not even that would suck me up, because his genetic ancestors blessed him in some ways too, just not with the Tony Goldwin stomach, which like that is just like how you're built. I sort of feel like Scott Fowey is a pretty good looking fellow. I don't know. Oh, he's the best. He's absolutely gorgeous. I love you both to piece it.

We talked a little bit about, like, um, the beginning of your career when you started, do you remember what the first I think I know what it is and I'm really excited about it. But do you remember what your first movie was? Your first movie? Oh? Yeah, I know why you're excited about it. Yea, yeah, Briday the Thirteenth, Part six, Yes, Jason Lives My first movie, part Jason Lives. Yes, And I got killed in the first like five minutes of thing. Yeah. I think I was the second. I

was the second person in the movie murdered by Jason. Fuck. Yeah, you played Darren Robinson, and I like that's some bad acting if you watch. Gillermo recorded it and texted it to me yesterday, the clip which I will now fall word to you and we will post when this episode because of me standing there with a gun going back off scum back. Yeah, and then Jason stabs me in

the heart with a pole. He impales you with like a fucking huge ass pole that he just also like stabbed the wheel so that your car couldn't and broke the headlights. Exactly. You're adorable, But what a dream you were in a Friday at thirteen movie. Like that's a huge for horror fan, man. I mean I was. I was so excited to have a job that. Yeah, Like I think I maybe got paid a thousand dollars for a week and I thought it was anit of fortune. You know, I was just so happy to have it.

Let's talk about the trail that is this episode's rewatch, which is I feel like, change the course of scandal actually because it was the first episode that really spent a lot of time and then flashback and we became a show that used that as a vehicle a lot. It aired on May tenth in twenty well, and it was written by Jenna Bands right. It was directed by Tom Verica. And let me take you quick through the

guest stars of the episode. We have Brendan Hines as Giddy and Wallace Bellamy Young as First Lady Melly Grit. Holy crap, Bellamy Young was still a fucking wasn't even regular year your pipe and smoke. Matt Lesher as Billy Chambers Kate Burton as Vice President Sally Lankston and Josh Malina as assistant US and Josh Melina was against o God was assistant US attorney David Rosen. And then we

have Dan Bucatinsky as James Novak. Brenda Song is Alyssa the legal secretary, John Burke is Paul Moseley, and Samantha Sloyan as Sassy Stafford, the sassy staffer who ends up in a future episode. She ends up having me the storyline thing, Yeah that's right, yeah, gee me or you hit this synopsis. You hit it last time, you hit it so good last time. I feel like I feel like I should hit it this time, but could do

it also after me if you okay? So the synopsis is after Fitz shows up at Olivia's apartment and asking her to listen to the sex tape. The episode flashes back to show Fits his campaign tre to the White House and the blossomy relationship between Olivia and Fits. Meanwhile, Gideon Wallace investigates Amanda Tana's past and David looks into Amanda's death. And what a great episode that was. That was definitely one of my favorite all times and Verica's

first episode. Yeah, yeah, it's it's for one of the first times that Carry's wig changed from And this was our first like whole episode where the big storyline is a whole flashback. It's the whole how you know Fitz became president, how Fits and Olivia started their love relationship, their physical relationship, And it's Tom Verica's introduction to Shawn de Land and he was listening became our producing director, and now he's the producing director for Bridgeton and the

upcoming Queen Charlotte, and he's shondaland Staple and family. So he obviously did a great job on So Good, And of course he ends up directing like a million episodes

of Scandal throughout the seasons. Yeah, as did Tony. Yeah, and the big highlights of this episode that I want to talk to you about is this is like, this is the episode where you say just one minute, like you're on the campaign and you're like just you just pull her out of a room and you're like standing and all You're just like, we just need one minute together. And then this is also the episode that has my favorite, one of my favorite Scandal scenes of all time when

you and Olivia are on the bus and you. Fitz says, what kind of coward was I? Yeah, that I didn't wait for you? Yeah, I think that's my favorite Scandal scene that I did. Tell us, why how did you prepare? Tell us about that scene? Which just so was so beautifully written? You know, Yeah, that was great. Now that that episode was so Tom Barker did such a brilliant

job directing that. It's the first time she calls you fits too, like you she keeps yeah, yeah wow, and you like just call me and the one minute thing and that theme that developed a musical theme that became Olivian Fits theme. It was beautiful. And it's also the episode where you guys have your first real like yeah, sh in the hotel room and no hotel, that crazy hotels sex scene with the micro thing under the bed, the bug under the bed. Yeah, there's a bug unto

the bed. And now we've we're starting to put all together that the the sex sounds that everyone's being sort of relate. It's so funny that I'm remembering that. Yeah, it was the first sex scene that Carry and I had. I mean, you had to really take it was a ten PM show. It's like, she's in a bra, she's in a white bra. She's like it's like you pick her up and she's around your body. I mean, it is fucking on. It was pretty hot. Like yeah, yeah,

for for not being fully nude, we might as well. Yeah, and carry and I were so It's so funny because we were so like it was the first time that we had done the sex scene together, and so we was so like careful with each other, and you know, six months we're like, yeah, whatever we've done as a thousand times. Yeah. There's also that memorable line where you say take off your clothes, which just hits so hard. It was so sexy because there's like a there's like

a moment before you say that line. Were you just staring at her and then you say take off your clothes. Oh, it's so good, it's so good. Were you nervous that day? Were you, like, I mean, I know, you've done tens of thousands of sex scenes in your life, so it's us and those things. I was sort of nervous because

it was Carries in life. I was nervous not for Carrie but for our relationship, Like I want as actors, you know, you're like trying to be you know what it's like, I'm respect Yeah, you're just trying to be um developed trust with another person because it's so intimate doing sex scenes with people. For those of you listening,

Tony Goldwin has a real knack. And I had heard this because I don't know if y'all remember this, but in the season episode one hundred, which this podcast hopefully will get there, Quinn has a sex scene with fits. It's just a quick makeout and then up to your knees for a quick ass blowjob. But listen, I had heard in the grape vine, and all you actors listening this is tell me if this is just a rumor

and not true. The rumor was that Tony Goldwin is such a great sex scene partner because if there's something that you're insecure about with your body, he'll like block it with his arm or cover it up. Is this made up? You're looking at me like this is made up? Maybe I did that once. I don't I don't know.

I don't even know where heard it. It might have been Bellamy, but I had heard that, like, oh god, it's so relieving when you're with someone who's like respectful but also like like, oh, you're like maybe Bill me, it's I I am. This is clearly a memory that I have made up for you. You're welcome, Tony Goldwyn. Yes, it's true. You know you gotta be you gotta be so protective over your partner. I'm enacting with people. You got to developed trust. Trust is like the most important

thing anyway. But when two people have their clothes off

or or you know, it's just so weird. So that kind of and I remember that with you know, I think when when bellamine out of sixteen, I may be wrong, you'd have to ask her, but I think it was her first time ever being basically naked on camera and doing it and we have this scene, sex scene in the shower together and she was it was so challenging, you know, it was so she felt so vulnerable, I think, you know, so I remember feeling like I really got to take care of her, because yeah, because I have

done a lot and I've directed a lot of sex scenes and it's such a weird thing that we do, but all, you know what, they're important because in real life sex is such an important yea life and relationships and people are so weird and proved about it in terms of our culture and everything that, if done right, it's such a it can be such an interests, such an interesting dramatic situation, you know what I'm saying. So

I always find it really challenging. Yes, And it's also the part that I enjoy the most about shows like It's Why, like that, The Will They Won't They? They which you and Carrie mastered over years of like I think you know, they kept keeping you apart, getting you together, keeping you apart, sending her down the road with other people, sending you down the road with other people, and then bringing you back together. I mean, the sex lives of Fitz and Olivia were a huge herpeat of our show.

Oh yeah, we'll be right back, guys. Do you remember anything about like the trail? Yeah? I remember a lot about it. Okay, we've got homeless Hawk makes his first. Is this your homeless Huks first? Yeah? This time? Can you tell us about Huck? That's oh right, we also Huck. Right. The hardest thing about playing Homeless Huck was that I knew I couldn't eat all freaking day because of that damn beard, Because you can't, you know, all the hair

gets in your mouth. Or that was just the biggest struggle to being like, you know, they'd come around with trays of these delicious looking sandwiches and I'd be like, I can't fucking eat that chick, and I'm homeless. Hard that was the hardest part. Quinn has her Quinn has her grilled cheese sex scene with Gideon in this episode, and I remember being very nervous as well and getting like seven thousand sprays. Yes, I remember like too, it was your first That was your first sex scene, wasn't it,

you know? And the show? Wasn't it your first one in the show? Yes, my first sex I had done show, But I remember you being super stressed out about that. I was really stressed because I probably hadn't done a sex scene where like people this many people would watch it like I done tons before, and like indies and plays where no one gave her rat's ass. But like

I felt stressed. I got a thousand spray tans a thousand because someone told me if you can't and it would cover up like butt ZiT and like all this stuff. And then who was more nervous than me was Gideon Wallace, right, who is now married. Do you know who Gideon Wallace is now married to Tony Goldwin. Are you ready to fucking fall off your chair? Yeah, he's married to Tatiana Maslani.

No way, they got married during COVID. Oh my god, I'm saying I'm saying this for your fans because I saw Tony Goldwin in Network on Broadway and his character is paired up with Tatiana. So you've worked with Tatiana closely and had sex scenes with her as well. Oh, Network, She and I were the She and Brian Cranston. She Yeah, she played the Fay Dunaway part um Gideon. Yeah, Brandon is the sweetest guy. Yeah. Oh, Tatiana is the best. She's awesome. She's such a great person and brilliant actress.

But he was really nervous that day, I remember, and then I felt so barrassed because we had the sex scene. And Tom Verica was like, Okay, it really seems like Katie Quinn is like mauling Brendan very easily. And Tom said something like, if this was like a point system, we kind of wanted to be like one one, you know, two too. You don't want it to be like Katie's doing it all and Brennan's just sort of and I'm like, I'm so sorry. I just like I'm I'm an aggressor,

like like that's just how I do it. Yeah, I just well, I'm just a controlling person. Like I'm just like, Okay, we're gonna do this, like let's go. Like I have a lot of energy. Obviously you all know that for better or for worse. Um, and i'd sort of overtaken him.

He was very nervous, I remember that. But we got it done and then literally the next episode he dies with a scissor in the next so yes, yeah, this is what this in this episode too, It's one of the first times that I remember thinking, oh shit, like this show is going there. Like the fact that Billy Chambers stabs him in the neck. Can you know you see a huge spurt of blood come out. It was like, oh wow, this is an intense like show. It's it's really going for it and going there, which I loved.

It's dark. This is also the episode where Mellie says we see the beginnings of her being the political animal that she is, because she comes in and does a speech saying that she'd like she basically fakes a miscarriage. She says like, oh, it's because I lost a baby, and we start to be like whoa. This woman is like yeah, a beast, like she will do anything, yes for the office. Yeah that's right. Yes, these were my notes. What kind of coward was I to marry her and

not wait for you? Fave line ever she calls him fits they hold hands, ladies and gentlemen. It is on take off your clothes, he says. Tony Goldwyn's body is insane, carries in a little bra ask grabbing, straddling. Whoa ten PM show people, billy me? These are my notes when

I love it. But what's so sweet and how this episode sort of wraps up is that then they cut to you both in present day and you do the one minute again, but we see how broken and far like you're just holding her on the couch, right, gee? Is that right? Because I bring her the tape to look at to listen to the sex tape that it's

her or not a man that ten or whatever. This was huge for TV, I thought too, because it was the first time that you say, let's do the you know, one minute, but on screen on camera on television, we actually wait that full minute in silence of them to just holding each other, him holding Olivia. It was so so powerful. Yeah, Shanda said, it's going to be a full minute. Yeah it was. It was great. It was

great in that in that yeah, right exactly. And remember in season one, didn't in season when we shoot in a real apartment, Yeah, when people could barely move in the hallways and we're over in this tiny apartment which eventually they built in a set on a stage, which was much easier. But um, yeah, yeah, did you take anything from said Tony? Did you did you take anything like a piece of clothing or like so much? First of all, I guess ABC's are so many clothes. I

mean yeah, yeah, thank you god. It was like we fudged the rules a little bit about all the wardrobe that we uh, whatever's heard for our body, it's either sneaking a basement to never be warned. He literally had my name all of my suits said on the inside because Brooks Brothers made made all my suit a lot of my suits, and they said especially Taylor made for Fitzgerald President Fitzgerald Grant the third Wow, like it's so guy, still have a bunch of those suits are really good?

But they like it, isn't that a cool thing? So what were they going to like give them to some other actor to wear? Uh so clothes? What else do I have? You take anything from the oval office, like a piece from your desk or anything that was on it. No, we all talked about that. There was nothing. Yeah, there was nothing. I really there was like a battleship, but I thought I'd be stupid, so I don't think I did. I don't tell Tony what you got. And we got

so much swag. That's the best. So when when the series ended, I uh I always admired the window panels, the flawed, cracked window panels in Opa. Yah. Yeah, So I I hit up Mary Howard, who's one of our producers, and asked her if I could have one of those windows, one of those panels, and they freaking sent it to my house. It's it weighs like a ton, but it's the most beautiful piece and it's hanging in my in my in my house at the entrance, and it's just

like one one pane with the framing or one yeah. Yeah, it's like poster size, like a movie poster size. But it's great, gorgeous, Yeah, I love that you. That's such a cool And then I also as an opportunity man because I didn't do that either. I also took Huck's leather jacket. I'm wearing it right now. Oh that tucks. That's pretty awesome. Yeah. Do you have any scandal memories

that jump out at you? Also, you're going to have to come back on like, if we are doing this for a hundred and whatever episodes, we're going to be bothering you again. Oh hell yeah, anytime, anytime. It's so fun. But what was like? I want to know. I want to know a couple of things. How do you feel about our WhatsApp scandal chain? We text each other constantly,

Happy Birthday, Happy holidays. I miss you the best. Are there any major memories that stick out in your mind about maybe the beginning, the first season, the second season? So many things? God? Yeah, I mean that Thursday of Rehearsalarity told you about that was like a magical thing where you just feel the chemistry between people going to the end. When we were in DC, our last episode ever, yeah, the best. For no good reason, Seana said, we're shooting

this episode in Washington. We just had a party and remember when Carrie rented a bus friends all the go uh look at all the monuments because her favorite thing to dear one of you know, of course carry the intellectual for one of her favorite things to do in DC was to go around all of the different, um, you know, her favorite monuments, and she took rented for those didn't know the story, she rented a bus for us, like a tour bus thing, and we all piled in

at night and drove all around DC and like we're drinking partying whist pig, yeah, whistle. I bought Georgians nuwburn and I bought a bottle of whistle pig whiskey which we which we up really loved at the hotel bar, which cost me like four hundred. God there they're like, oh it's gonna Georgia. Oh my god, it's gonna cost them. Jo like, let's do it. So no one recognized us. We were all together, but it was dark so we could be with tourists. People didn't. It's so fun. It

was perfect. It was raining out a little bit, so there were really weren't many tourists around and it was probably really time the Scandal cast could have ever done something like that and not being crazily mobbed. Mobbed isn't the whistle? We went the title of our of our WhatsApp Yeah, it's chain, aren't we called the wid That's right, that's what I already what I just call you guys. Yeah. And then Shanda arranged a private tour of the African

American Museum just opened. So incredible, so lucky, lucky all those New York the New York Upfront trips and the White House corresponding trips and shooting in DC, and just like so many dinners, like we used to Oh, we

haven't talked about that actually yet. We used to give a gift like every year, I think we would just take the writers that all the actors would take the writers out to dinner, right, yeah, and classic Perry style, every actor would sort of get up and like say like a rousing speech, as if we were in like some Irish like Limerick pub kind of thing, like we'd all get up like I want to say this, and I want to say that cheers, And yeah, it was

quite unique. I've forgotten about that because you know, for people that aren't in our business, writers are sort of notoriously underappreciated. Yeah, and particularly staff writers, because in television, you of your showrunner who becomes the big you know, hefean Is generally gets all the acolytes and on a successful show, and Seana certainly deserves those. But the writers, you know, work their asses off, sometimes feeling not seen,

and so I forget how it evolved. But they were just so grateful that we would have this party every year with them. Yeah, yeah, it was such magic, such magic. Oh wait, can you tell us really quickly because we didn't have you on for this episode? You really know how to chop wood like that? Right, that's right when you chop wood? I actually I actually do not know how to chop with Really, it's unbelievable. Didn't Sean to email you like, is there any sports or something you

can do? Yeah? She was cruel to me. She said something like can you play What does she say? Can you play basketball? Or something? I know? She said, what sports can you do? I said, Shanna, I can chop wood. I was kidding so that you route in a wood chopping scene. And then she would say, well, what what sports do you play? I said, look, pretty much anything

except basketball. I cannot play basketball, and then uh, this is another like somewhere in the middle of our of our whole thing, I said, I can't play, but I do not play basketball. So all the slow hold um Lynn Powlo are brilliant costumes that her texts me one day, do we need to schedule of fitting for you to come in and try in your basketball club? Like, oh no, god, She's like, what didn't Sean to tell you you have a basketball scene in the next episode with you Scott

fully playing basketball. I was like, oh my god, it was like an amazing basketball player. We played a high school basketball and something. I was like, what is happening? So then I called Mary Howard and she said, oh, yes, yes, of course we never knew anything about what was happening in the next episode. It was we always found out at the last minute. So I made them get me

a basketball coach. You know, for like ten days of cramming and I I had blisters on my god, we could I could play one on one with Scott, you know, we had a full on basketball team. Was ridiculous. Killed it. Oh wait And also some fun facts. Stephen Finch does not appear at all in this episode past present. He's

not really at all. So that was Ian's left. Oh yeah, but what's crazy because he came into Olivia's life later, yes, yes, yes, And then Gideon was up all night working on the phone right outside the bathroom, oh, right outside the bedroom, and Quinn leaves to get coffee as Gideon calls Billy, which means Billy needed to drive to Gideon's house, have the conversation and stab him all before Quinn got coffee nearby. Yeah, well, you know we always stretch shit like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

we always would stretch shows like that exactly. All right, y'all, let's get into our favorite tweet time. Y'all. We like to wrap up our episodes with we read some tweets that were put out that night. Oh my god, we must have just found out. This is crazy. But at Kasia zero two, one zero and eleven twenty twelve road, I'm so happy, happy about Scale ABC being renewed for a second season. Doing happy dance right now? Who? Yeah,

we must know, right, no idea ye season. Yeah. Rebecca Theodore of A, shown at film Fatalis It, retweeted a Dawn navette uh one time for the hotel scene. I haven't seen a love scene so hot with a black lead on primetime TV. Overdue, well done hashtag scandal. Yeah, this is huge. That ship was so funny. How the world has changed, right, Yeah, I mean now you wouldn't think twice about it, and it was only totally it ten years ago. Ten years ago exactly. I'm willing to bet.

I know we were the first black female lead of a network drama in thirty seven years when we aired. But I'm curious if there had ever been sex scenes between a black woman and a white man on network drama primetime, Like, I don't know, and I wonder a certainly I would doubt, and if it was like a regular relationship as opposed to the thing I called one episode or something, Yeah, isn't that insane? And now, thank god,

I feel like that's why Scandal is. I mean, it was so special for so many reasons, but it really was the beginning. Yeah, groundbreaking. Yeah, and thank god you and Carrie were so hot together because that was missing. Okay, screaming at Scandal right now throws my wonderful pistachios at the screen at the end of this damn episode from Rebecca, Theodore Vashone and then, oh, this is interesting. At Ramsey says, o MG, carry Washington has a small hand compared to

mister fitz hashtag scandal, don't go there. I don't know what that means. This other tweet, Queen of Sandy says, reported dude from Scandal was a fool. You can invite someone into your home alone and tell them you have career ending dirt on them. That's so true. That's a very very good point. Scissors in your neck, that's And then we have our first hashtag from at x y z z in other news, this episode of hashtag scandal is my favorite so far. Hashtag one minute. Yeah, oh man,

this is oh Tony, you are the best. We love you and this was such a blast. And thank you for being our Fitzgerald Grant the third, forever and ever and ever. Yeah, thank you guys, Um Katie, How freaking amazing was it having Tony like I couldn't believe it. We I think we went over like a lot because we can't stop talking to him. So great. The dude is the greatest. He's just the most loving. Yeah, talented,

like smart Yeah. And Friday the thirteen Part six, he's in Friday and his first job, his first movie, And isn't it so inspiring that he was someone who had to really hustle for it, especially in the beginning. And yeah, and then even still when he thought he was and is this big fancy Hollywood director took eight years to put together the movie of Conviction and then it ends up not doing what everyone promised him it would do,

even though it's still an amazing movie. And then his entire career took a complete right turn back to being an actor. Yeah with Scandal. Yeah, man, thank you, Thank you everyone for listening. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode as much as we enjoyed talking about it. Next week, if Tony Goldwin blew your mind, which he did mine and he's the best, we've got a show in store for you people. Next episode one oh seven is titled Grant for the People, and we've got a very special guest,

maybe one of the most special guest. Yeah, and it's the last episode of the season of season one of Scandal, So tell your friends come listen. Thank you guys for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate, or leave us a review. Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex AlCH, Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and

editor is Vinceda Johnny with music by Chad Fisher. Scandal is a production of eight You See Signature, and you can follow along by rewatching Scandal on Hulu. Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.