The Life and Myth of Bo Jackson with Jeff Pearlman

Jeff Burman joining us to discuss his new book. He has so many bestsellers. This one's called The Last Folk Hero, The Life and Myth of Bo Jackson and Packer fans will also love Gunslinger about Brett Farve. I've talked about that one on the show before. I love that book. I just started reading the Bou Jackson book. It is amazing. He interviewed over seven people and there are incredible stories in there. I'm really excited to talk to him and here some of his stories. Jerry, you go back a

little ways with Jeff, don't you. I go back with Jeff. He It was is one of my favorite writers I've read all of his books. I used to try to option all of his books as a producer years ago. Now I think they're all optioned. Yeah. Anytime I know there's a Jeff Prolman book in the works are coming, I sort of put it into my schedule to make time to read it. And also now audio wise, it's a great way to listen to a book too. It's

kind of how I consume. So he's kind of the goat when it comes to some of these sports books. He really is. Oh. Absolutely, Yeah, as Walter Peyton book is really good. Yeah, we have so much to ask him. I'm really looking forward to this interview. Um. I'm also really looking forward to hearing how your Thanksgiving. Once I was thinking about you look, it was great. It was great. We hosted twenty seven adults and six kids that I

did just discover something that I did not see. So we had some tables in the basement because just overflow of people down here, you know, the living room. There's a little kitchen area and then there's like my gym. It's not a big jim, but it's a nice little

the end. Today, I'm doing my best version of a workout because I'm tired and I'm looking at the floor in my and I'm thinking what And one of the kids, I don't know, maybe it was my own, who knows, just had some kind of permanent marker scribbling on the floor in certain like the whole length of the beam from mirror to wall. And uh, yeah, I'm just gonna, like I said, I'm just gonna sell the house. I'm

just gonna put it on the lort sell. How I say, at this point, after that party for Thanksgiving, we start over well, and I know the Giants game was a huge part of your day. How did you fare? It sucked, to be honest, because they fought so hard and they're just undermanned at this point, the injuries are too far gone. I think Dable has been doing a really good job of getting the most out of Daniel Jones. Quan sort of been running to the ground a little bit. It's

a lot of a lot of carries this year. But I'm proud. I'm very optimistic and happy. I am not mad at the Giants one bit, even though I would have loved to have seen them win that game. And I think I might have a little unleashed later about some Thanksgiving football stuff Oh okay, I'm here for that. How about the NFC East All four teams would currently make the playoffs. It's amazing. Nuts, Yeah, I think they should have been the Washington contenders instead of the Commanders.

They came out of nowhere. They certainly look like they're a problem. Then you look at Jalen Hurts, you know, not that it was the hardest competition of the week. I will say when you look at Jalen Hurts and you have to really give him his m v P chand a hundred and fifty seven on the ground, he's in territory now where he's almost by himself. I know.

Which if you had told me this a couple of weeks ago, we wouldn't have believed that because everyone was hot on Josh Allen for like the first half of the season and now running away with it literally literally running away with it. Um. Also in that game, Packers Eagles betters could cash in on the over in the first thirty minutes. That game was just gunfire. That was

so exciting to watch. How much are you but are you watching all start to finish to the Packer Because that's why I respect about these Browns fans and I come across there and and they screwed a lot of people with that win. I think there was a lot of bucks, parlay's and money lines and teasers that they almost screwed or did screw. But they still watched the games, all these Browns fans like there's something to watch. Are you watching these Packer games still? Like we could still

get in mathematically? Yes? And you know I went to the Thursday night game last week against the Titans, and then this Sunday night, this past Sunday night. How could you look away from that game even if you weren't a fan of either team. That was a great game. And then the excitement of Roger's leaving and Jordan's love going in and he sparked something in our rookie receiver Christian Watson got another touchdown. He's really found something in

the last couple of weeks. I mean, it's it's You're going to see it on every talk show this week, right. Should Aaron Rodgers call it a season? And then we start the charade of all off season? What's he gonna do? What's the team gonna do? You know, as a Packer fan, I'm getting really weary of that I'm getting really run down on this topic. But you've got to ask it, you know, after Jordan's love comes in and does all right,

what do you think? I mean as an outsider, as a as a non Packer fan, So as a non Packer fan, it's so hard to I don't want to say the word tank, but it's so hard to say, all right, let's phone it in the season and make and actually get a really good draft pick here. Because there's such physical violence in football. I don't think you could just phone it in because if you phone it in,

you can get seriously, seriously hurt. So to that degree and there and there their athletes, they're glad eat there's there's no phoning it. I would like to see if Rogers really is banged up and we're not seeing the best of Aaron Rodgers, and I know he has the thumb thing. I would just like to see Jordan's love play. Then it is a lost season. I'm not saying you need to put such imponisma one and you could trade Jordan's love or you could trade Aaron. I'm not even

going that far. I just want to see Jordan's love play because they are going to have to make some decisions this offseason, and look, would it be the worst thing in the world. The Packers only one one more game the rest of the year and had a really good draft pick, And I don't think that's the word thing. Although Michael Lombardi, friend of the show's coming and joining

us next week. I listened to his pod and he had a very distinct like, no, Aaron Rodgers getting a hundred and ninety billion dollars, he needs to play if he could play. So I trust his take more than mine. I just want to see Jordan's love play and see what he could do. I know he came in in the third quarter. He went six for nine, one thirteen

and that touchdown of Christian Watson I mentioned. I agree because he's in year three and the Packers need to decide what they want to do with him going into year four of his rookie contract. It's it's a business decision. And how can you cut a guy, trade guy, whatever you're gonna do with him if you really haven't given him a shot. And now this season that could be one upside of this season is that we can see

what we got. Yeah, Like, it's a tough spot to be in and the Packers and you Packer fans are really not used to ever even having this talk. That's why I don't mind all the sports talk we're gonna get about this, because you don't see it with Aaron Rodgers in the Packers. You just don't because you're always contenders, You're always in the mix, always a threat. So I do think this is a rare opportunity where you again, he is banged up. It is confirmed Aaron Rodgers is

banged up. It's not like he's a and playing so well, or else we wouldn't have this discussion. He says he's playing Sunday. He does. He just came out and said he's playing Sunday. Rib injury aside, thumb injury aside. I don't know what kind of skeleton is going to be playing quarterback for the Packers this weekend, but Aaron says it's him. And listen, when it's the Chicago Bears on the schedule and you've gone out of your way to talk about how you own them, I maybe would say

the same thing too. I'll play this Bears game and then you know what, don't they got the Chiefs? Jordan Law, you go go ahead, go ahead to head with my homes, get in their kids. Another team that will certainly not be making the playoffs is the l A. Rams. I mean, my god, how the Mighty have fallen? After winning the Super Bowl. Now they're three and eight and there's no

word on when Matt Stafford will return. And to make matters worse, the Lions owned their first round pick, So I'm not I'm not sure Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey are gonna want to stick around for a rebuild. And Jalen Ramsey got burned by Travis Kelsey this weekend and he didn't look good. He's kind of hot and cold. What do you think of the Rams? Look? Travis Kelsey burns a lot of people that that connection is just undeniably the best ever. I'm sorry you'll disrespect Aniel the

great tight ends. That's the greatest connection ever. What do you say with the Rams? They got their Super Bowl, they got that amazing new stadium. And it's weird because I looked this up because I was wondering should the Rams be in l A. I was trying to do this whole reconfiguration. Wouldn't be better if the Raiders were in l A. And then maybe the Chargers were in Vegas, and then where do we put the Rams. I do know they have a strong l A fan base for

the I mean strong using that word liberally. But then I looked at their attendance and they are like top ten in attendants because I think all the other teams fans show up for their games. So I guess the business model does work if you're okay with six of the place being filled with the opposing teams fan. Look, they got their championship. It's amazing. They have no draft picks. I know they went they tried to go in on McCaffrey with some late draft picks, like in a few

years from now. I don't know what how much more could you do? It might be time the Aaron Donald will probably retire. Jalen Ramsey. You probably gotta trade him to a contender and maybe you could get a first round pick or get something they got. They're gonna have to just reload. It's gonna be really hard to do

that without your draft picks. I mean, the Lions potentially may get like three and six overall this year if this continues this way, Yeah, I know, And then then they might be ready next year, you know what I mean. They there's a lot to like about the Lions, and there certainly was this weekend as well. So yeah, if they get a couple of pieces, what's not to like

about them for this coming season? Yeah, it's We talk about the NBA a lot with the Lakers and the Pelicans and and trading for the star player that maybe brings you that instant success, but long term doesn't bring you any So now if you're the team that traded the superstar, you're kind of sitting back like it's my time. Now. We see it with the Pelicans. Now, you gotta we make fun of Houston Texans on this show. But the Browns stink this year. They stole that game against the Books.

That's gonna be a good pick for the Texans unless the Browns really go on the run, which I don't see happening. Obviously. We know what position the Seattle Seahawks are in with the Russell Wilson trade. So it's bad for the Rams, but they got their championship, and I just think it's gonna be a tear it down and rebuild and it might take a very long time. So let me ask you theoretically, and you can plug in

any sport, any team. If your team went all in to win just one championship like the Rams did, how many years of irrelevancy would you be willing to trade for that? Five years? Ten years? I mean, how much is one championship season worth you? Okay, Wow, it's a wonderful question. I will say I would do five years for the Giants, five because it's been five years. It's been longer than that, five years for the Yankees. For the Knicks, I will trade my lifetime for one championship

because it's been my lifetime. Yeah, you give me one, because I do think one Knicks championship is worth three anywhere else in the NBA. For the fans, I would take gone thirty years of irrelevancy for one championship, because we've been waiting and been irrelevant waiting for one championship for my entire life. How many of those games would you be at in the playoffs? Oh? As many? As as many as I could be. It's as many as Bree would allow. Yeah, if it could be all of them,

I'd be there for all of them. I've actually I've been the one Knicks playoff game in the nineties and it was an incredible experience and it hasn't been many of them in modern day. I did not go to any Knicks Hawks two years ago, so that I would go to all of them if I could. That'd be fun to go just to see Trey Young. He's so fun in those playoffs. Yes, not for you, Not for you. No great villain, though, great villain. Love a hell. The NFL slate is so good this week, Jerry, I'm really excited.

It's kind of a sneak preview for playoffs. Really obviously at the end of the show we dig deeper into it with Peter Andrew. But real quick as you're looking at the slate, I mean Thursday Bills Pats. Bills are minus four and a half favorite. We have the big return of DeShawn Wis Utson in Houston. There's a lot to like on this late What sticks out to you Bill's Pats on Thursday. That's a great Thursday night game. We deserve that Thursday night game that has playoff implications.

The Pats are in them, must win obviously, my Giants and Commanders, although that might not like the World on Fire offensively, that's a playoff game, because right now they're, like you said, all four NFC East teams are in the playoffs. But and I'll definitely peek in under the Sean game to see what he's got. That being said, the two games I have circled as my heavyweight fights Dolphins Niners. I know, obviously it's a f C NFC so you can't really say it's a playoff preview, but

these should be two high level playoff teams. What a fun matchup. I just cannot wait to watch that game. And then your Kansas City Chiefs, who are on a nice little run revenge game, except this time they're going to Cincinnati to play Joe Burrow in the Bengals, and Joe Burrow, Joe Barrow's kind of got the swag back that he found last year. It's starting to get it's Joe Burrow time. That is gonna be in saying game.

And then just as like a little dessert, little palate cleanser, Chargers Raiders is always just like a psychopathic game, like you just don't know. I dare you to pick who's gonna win that game and be right, yeah, And Vegas is expecting both of those games to be close. Chiefs minus two and a half, Chargers minus. To look with the Raiders, I mean they put it on display this past weekend. There are pieces of the Raiders to like, mostly Josh Jacobs, but there's something there at the Raiders

that just feels like they're never dead. No. Yeah, it's last year they won so many close games and everyone wondered if they were for real. This year, they've lost all those close games, but they're starting to pick it back up. When you look at the roster, you certainly they have blue chippers all over the place. So yeah, I think we're gonna see They're not gonna go quietly. I don't think the Raiders are gonna go quietly, although they're the most dysfunctional. By dysfunctional, I mean you just

have no idea. Bipolar, a bi holer team, you just have no idea what you are going to get. Okay, So I've been excited to ask you about this game because you live there Michigan, Ohio state, and you have ton of Ohio state family members, and I'm just curious if you have confirmation that Columbus is still standing or have they just completely burnt it down. I would say it felt like a funeral in some ways. A lot of people looking at the ground muttering, a lot of

my in laws certainly upset. I've definitely a lot of fun Ryan Day like, there's just a lot of that. It's hard for me because I like college football a lot. I watch college I don't have a team, so I don't. Yes you do. We've gone over this Coastal Carolina, Coastal Caroline, which I kind of stopped following their record after week three. I think they were three and a at one point. Let's check on them. Let's see old Coastal Carolina. Yeah,

how are they doing well? When you type in Coastal Carolina on Google on the wait, give me a second, what's the name? Hey, they're six and two, tied with James Madison up in the Sun Belt. They're doing all right. Here we go. See they're nine and two overall, six and two in conference. So I felt two losses. I get it, but no, they it's a it's a real thing over here. Some of Breeze cousins go to Ohio State and I did a little temperature check their the

vibes are not good. So I understand because Briand coached a horrible game. He coached scared. They had punts on the Michigan forty three in their own forty nine. They were so timid. They were terrible on both sides of the ball. And think about this with Michigan, they were the underdog, they were on the road, they without their

best player, and Jim Harbaugh coached a beautiful game. Like everyone's saying, it's it's his best game he's ever coached, and it's a lot of college coaches best game ever coached. They were dominant from the start. They adjusted so perfectly. And now Harbor is too and oh in the last two years he started oh and five in this series, so it's crazy. Their quarterback J J. McCarthy, remember we had Pat forty on early on the season and he

was walking us through the Michigan quarterback controversy. Well. J. J. McCarthy said that they knew Ohio State would try to stop their run game, so they went deep. They aired it out obviously, right, you don't need to be a scout to figure that one out. And he was so impressive. Michigan tipped a tail, was so impressive. But now Kid McNamara, who was the backup. Remember he was going to be the starter. He has entered the transfer portal. So in

college football, you never know what you're gonna get. Yeah, and you talk about Pat Forty, I remember asking him specifically about the two quarterback that and he did say, though he made that great point with Harbaugh that you know he's just getting the guy raps for the transpportal, which just tells me that this t is also fighting hard for Harrible. And then the run game, which did

not get going right away. I mean Donovan Nevers finished with two sixteen yards or something like that with two TV. It was just a beating. It was an old fashioned butt kicking. And I'm excited to see I mean Michigan, I think they should have no problems when the next week and uh, it's gonna be a poor Ohio State. They we've gotta exp're spending, right. This is a good lesson for expanding because it really is just one bad week and they're on the outside looking in and probably

will stay that way. Right, And I'm going to talk more about that in my Unleashed because don't say poor Ohio State. They laid an egg. This is what happened. So now the college football playoffs, so far as we go into conference championship week, Georgia one, Michigan too, although there are a lot of people who make a good argument Michigan should be one, TCU three USC four, So unless we have a major upset on Saturday, those are set.

Seating might change a little bit. But um yeah, I'm worried the playoff committee may screw this whole thing up because the only playoff implications are really the Pac twelve in Big twelve games. So it's interesting. Can I go ahead and get right to my unleashed because I can't hold back any longer. I feel like you're warmed up and ready to go. Let's do it. It's college football.

Teams playing in their conference championship game should not be penalized for a poor performance or even a slight loss in an extra game that other teams don't have to play. It's a twelve game regular season. This is the week thirteenth game. And you're telling me if Georgia went twelve and oh, if Michigan went twelve and oh and loses in this game that some other teams aren't having to play, that someone else can get jumped. So those two teams,

they're safe, they're fine. It's USC and TCU who could grew everything up here and let teams who didn't play in this weekend slate sneak into the College Football Playoff, rested, recovered, healthy, right, everything about it? So, Jerry, this is the ninth college football playoff, right, and historically three times we have seen an eleven and one team get in the playoff without

playing in their conference championship. I think that's crazy. Most recently, a great example was when Alabama got in because number four undefeated Wisconsin lost in the Big Ten championship game and Alabama was able to sneak in there and Wisconsin then just had the one loss in Week thirteen. So the other two contenders for this year's scenario, as we talked about Ohio State in Alabama, they don't play this weekend. Ohio State and Alabama, by not winning their division, gets

a bye. And it's it's not right that they still have a path. Like I said, we've seen it happen before three times, and Alabama has two losses. I don't think you should be punished for having to climb that hurdle. So I think this weekend should only count for seeding. If you g A loses, they're still in. If they lose close and Michigan does really, really well, they could switch. I could see Michigan go into one. I'm okay with that.

Like I mentioned real quick as a tangent, people making the argument Michigan should be one Georgia should be too right now is because Michigan's best win, which is over Ohio State, is better than you as best win over Tennessee. Michigan's second best win is over Penn State, and people think that's much better than Georgia's best win over Oregon. So see Jerry, This this stuff is confusing, and it does come down because people say they passed the eye test.

If they really can't think of a reason why they want a team in the playoff, they'll just pull up some of that bullshit. So I don't want USC to lose, TCU to lose and Alabama or Ohio State get in because they didn't play a game this weekends. And I'm okay. Last thing, I'm okay with Utah beating out us See for a spot because it is a rematch and Utah had already won it, so I can say that the Pact twelve championship, that can be like a play in game.

But again, all this stuff is very confusing, and I just don't think another conferences lost in their championship game should let a team from another conference slip in. That's a great only I felt, I'm gonna go on the record and say, and you've had a lot of bangers for your unlease, I'm gonna go on record and say that one do the breakout for that, I think we have to bring. I think we have to do the

Instagram to where their breakout for that. On least, because I felt you there, I think you're right and I did college that they're just trying to figure out the way that they're limping to the expanded playoff, I think is what's happening. But I'm with you, I am a it would be very very strange. Well, let me just ask you this before I do my On least, who

do you think Georgia would like to avoid? Say they stick with the number one seed, which is more than likely, who do you think they want to avoid for that? For see, who do you not want to see rolling in it? Well, look usc top to bottom. They're not the strongest team. But Caleb Williams is a bona fide star. He's the clear cut favorite for Heisman. He can pull off amazing things. He's a jaw dropping quarterback. So I

just don't trust going against it. And here I'm speaking as a Georgia fanal of bias too, but I think that's probably who you g A doesn't want to face. TCU doesn't scare me so much, but USC and Caleb Williams would be a handful for any team, even the nation's leading defense. Well listen, my on least is not nearly going to be as passionate as yours and filled with logic and things that actually track. But that being said, you know, at this point, I'm all about circumventing the expected.

Let's try to rid ourselves of some of the traditions. I get it, some of them we like to hold onto. And this is counterintuitive to the game we watched on Thanksgiving, because the Lions were very, very entertaining on Thanksgiving. That was a great game versus Builds, arguably the best game of the slate. That being said, can we get off the Lions and the Cowboys always playing on Thanksgiving? I get that, I get the tradition. I love it. It's been long enough. Maybe can we have one of them

play and they alternate every year on Thanksgiving? Because I really enjoyed Pat's vikings. It was really nice to see just that kind of matchup. So maybe we have either Dallas or Detroit play and for that year, and then the other two games are filled with just teams we've never really seen on Thanksgiving before, and then next year it will be Detroit's turn. Do we really have to have both the Cowboys and the Lions every year on Thanksgiving? So half break tradition, Give me one, and now listen

to this. This is the one that you're gonna roll your eyes out. I get the three game. Maybe we dropped the two because it is hard to watch three games on Thanksgiving, So maybe we dropped down the two games on Thanksgiving, and then may maybe we put the third game on Friday boom a day. We're all all just sitting around recovering, and we're all just like, oh, why do we eat so much? Why do we drink so much? I'm so tired, I don't want to move.

What better thing to do than to have like a nice one pm or four pm game imagine that Bill's Pats game was just four pm the next day. You'd be psyched on Friday. I'll tell you why, because college football kind of owns that Friday. They could have Saturday. They own Saturday. No, that's a that's a big day in college football. I guess that's my colleague. Well, the main unleashed part was get rid of one of the Lions or the Cowboys and have them. They could just

alternate every year. You guys don't get to own Thanksgiving forever. It's not cheap shot at Lions fans. You guys have stunk for a hundred years, and this year you're very fun to watch. I don't understand. While you deserve to be on thanksgive you've done nothing to deserve to play on Thanksgiving every year. I disagree purely for the sake of tradition. I'm a sucker for tradition. I don't even know why those two teams play on Thanksgiving? Do you

know exactly? I know more? Right, I know more about college football than I do about why those teams play on Thanksgiving. Oh my gosh. Well, you know who knows a lot more than the two of us is our guest Jeff Perlman. Let's go ahead and bring him in. From the eight six Mets to the nineties Cowboys, and from Walter Payton to Barry Bonds. He's the author of some of the best sports books ever written. We can both attest to that. His latest is called The Last Folk.

He wrote the life and myth of Bo Jackson. It's the best seller, and he is going to have so many good stories for us today. Let's bring in Jeff Command. Okay, Jeff, this book is another incredible read. I'm so glad you sent me a copy. I've started it over Thanksgiving break. As always, you go into such great detail about the man, not just the athlete. You talk to their family, their ends, everyone. So when you're writing these books, does it feel like

you're almost thinking like them, living with them? Does it feel like you almost take them on? I wrote a book years ago about Walter Payton. It was called Sweetness, And there was this moment one night I took a run. I've told my kids about this. It was so weird. I was taking a run. I was living in New Roshell in New York. I was running and I felt like Walter Payton was running next to me. I was deep in it all, and I just like, I almost

feel like having some delusional conversation with Walter Payton. It's so weird and it sounds like I was on drugs and I really wasn't. And you actually get to that point when you research and research and research and all you do it's not a healthy way to live. Like all you do is think about one person all the time, nonstopping. My wife is like I don't want to hear any more about bow Jackson, and my kids like I don't want to hear any more about bo Jackson. But all

you want to do is talk about Bo Jackson. So yeah, it's very immersive and very weird. The title is a great one. Is the title something that you work off of from the beginning, like in your mind you kind of know, or is it you have to do all the research, start putting the words on paper. The last folk hero I mean that is that that's the first person I really could think of as bo Jackson. Oh well,

I appreciate that. It actually wasn't. Um. What happened is there's a really great writer named Joe Poznanzi who's doing a lot about baseball through the years. And at some point he referred to Bo Jackson something he wrote as the last folk hero, and he was actually referring to the the famous sort of Bo Jackson throwing out Harold

Reynolds at Home Plate in Seattle. And if you watch, which is great, and if you watch a replay, and you probably would't even be aware of this unless you watch it, we never actually see Bow release the ball like um because it was shot with one camera, so the camera goes to Harold Reynolds drowning. Third. You never

see Bow release the ball. And Joe is writing about how with Bo, so much of what he did and so many of his feats we don't actually have literal documentation of, and even this famous play, we don't see it all. And he said, he really is the last folk hero because nowadays even someone like show Hey Otani. Way before he came to the Angels, we had video of him in Japan, even though we're miles and miles away of doing things. And with Bow he ran a four one three forty at Auburn, we don't see it.

He ran a four one seven on grass with the Raiders in Camp, we don't see it. All these plays he did, these things he did in high school. He went back to back state to Catholan championships at Alabama. We don't have any video of it, so a lot of it really feels like folklore when it comes to him. Yeah, I mean the size and speed he's it's like he's built in a lab. He's faster than Tyree Kill, like

you mentioned, and he's thirty pounds bigger. So when there's so much to marvel at in both football and baseball, was their story that did come up that you found out not to be too? That was a myth. Yeah, Actually it's kind of funny. He wrote an autobiography in called Bow Knows Bow, and he did it with Dick Schapp. It was a book I loved when I was younger. Right, It was like a definitive sports biography for sure. It went to number two on the New York Times list.

It was like a big seller. And I was pitching this book my book two different publishing houses. I talked about this thing, but wrote about in his book, which is at at Auburn. He went over his first twenty one in baseball with twenty one strikeout, So over twenty one and he struck out all twenty one times, and I kept saying everyone, his recovery from that is just amazing. It's it's amazing, it's it's amazing. And I would interview people from Auburn baseball from back then and they'd say, yeah,

over twenty one. Over twenty one's crazy over strikeouts. But then I started digging through the old like Auburn wonderful sports information department sent me all the box scores first game Illinois State two for five. Whit wait what I mean? So they're also like in the same book he wrote about his first ever college football run. It was a game against wake Forest is freshman year, and in his book he plowed into the line for no game. Well,

no game. Why watch a video of that game and his first run is a handoff up the gut for nine yards. So I'm not saying he's lying in any way, shape or form, But I do think memory is a tricky thing and one of the important things about biography and me hopefully biographers as you go back and you confirm and you reconfirm, and you check and you check and you find out that things that you thought were

actually art, it's fascinating. Yeah, that's something I've spent hours on YouTube watching just Bo Jackson throwing people out because he would throw the ball and the ball would actually still be picking up speed as it would enter either the first basin or the third basin of the catcher's glove, which I always thought was insane and something. I think that adds to his legend. And I'm pretty obsessed with

this and I'm trying to work on stuff. I don't think we'll we'll probably and they we'll never see a dual athlete again, right, fair to say, or at least baseball football. I know Dion did it, and he was healthier than Bo Jackson, so that certainly helped him. But yeah, I don't. I just think if you're an amazing football player, you're gonna go play football. And we've seen people toy with the notion of like Russell Wilson, I got drafted fifth round. I don't think we ever see that again.

It's kind of a bummer. I've written about guys, you know, wrote about a breath Fire biography, wrote wrote a Walter Payton biography, wrote a bo biography. I don't know, Dwight Gooden and Darryk Strawberry growing up in the match. Always different guys, and what they all sort of shared from their boyhoods is they went out in yards and beat the crap out of each other, and they play tackle

football with their buddies. They were leaping over ditches and climbing over fences and finding making up games in the yard, finding rocks and throwing them and finding stick all that stuff. And nowadays out here in southern California, it's ridiculous. Like some kid is seven years old and even shows slight talent pitching. Well, the next thing you know, there's some guy who used to pitch for Trip Away Wallah Walla, and he's he's a pitching coach. Now we need to

get them with that. And but Mom, I want to play basketball. No, no, no, we're gonna have you because those two other kids up the block, they're already in this program that's amazing and it helps develop pictures, and all of a sudden, we've wiped out, just wiped out generations of should have been multi sport athletes. And what I think we've done along with that is really killed much of the joy of childhood, which is playing killed the carrier in new yard, which is playing pickup hoops,

which is playing multiple sports. So they'll probably be other ones who come along, but few and far in between. That's a really good point, especially all his parents. I think that's important to remember. My husband always tells us story his neighborhood players. They played his game called Sam at the goal line and he just had to stand there and just get tackled. Why do you think both first picked baseball? Oh? What's It's actually a good story.

So he um Bow was drafted. So Bo was playing baseball football at Auburn and he was very good at both. But you know, he was a Heisman Trophy winner in football, and he was gonna make a lot more money in football. And it says it's a senior year at Auburn. He has already won the Heisman trophies playing baseball, and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are coming off of a two and fourteen season. They suck. They're going to have the number

one pick in the draft. The owner of the Buccaneers, Ukulver House, sends his private plane to Auburn to pick Bow up the morning of the Auburn baseball game, flying him to Tampa Bay for a physical and then flying back for the game, and back in the day in the SEC, you couldnt be pro in one sport amateur and another in any way, shape or form. So Auburn is playing Alabama Birmingham that night at Auburn, the coaches hal Barrett and he's like, where's bow And another is like, yeah,

he flew to Tampa. And I was like, he did what to Tampa? On the Bucks plane, He's like, please tell me your kid, and please tell me your kidding. Wasn't kidding. He actually lost his eligibility from that flight. The funny follow up is the Buccaneer. He swears off the Buccaneers. At that point He's basically like, f the Buccaneers, I'm never playing for this team. Blah blah blah. The Buccaneers get the number one pick, they draft bo anyway,

the owners convince he's gonna be able to sign. One of my favorite moments in the book and favorite moments of reporting ever, is um Both flies to Tampa to meet with the Buccaneers after the draft because his agents say you should. Steve Young is a quarterback for the Bucks and the owner of the Buccaneers, Ukulver House, says to Steve Young, let's come with me. I want to take Bow out for a state dinner. Help me woo bo Jackson. So, Steve Young, it's your culver House, it's

bo Jackson. Uculver House excuses himself in the table and bo Jackson leans in the Steve Young and he goes Steve to see you know, there's no fan way I ever signed with this team, and Steve Young all right, man, my work just done. That's just heat. So he was The Buccaneers really forced his hand and made him say, to hell with you. I'm not playing for you. I told you I wouldn't play with you. And then the

Royals came along and made him a really good offer. Yeah, And on paper, though with the Raiders, it certainly seemed like it was the perfect fit. Right. My first members of bo Jackson are honestly tech Bobawl like so many other kids my age. It wasn't always the perfect fit though, organizationally for him, right, because it was a little hazy for me being a kid watching. But I just always remember they were talking about Bow and the Raiders not

necessarily being a match made in heaven. Well, the issue was they already had. Marcus Allen was also a Heisman Trophy winning half back and really good. It's funny Marcus Allen was much more beloved as a Raider than Bo Jackson. The players on the Raiders loved Marcus Allen, loved everything about him, and when Bo came along, Marcus Allen actually shifted to fullback and did it willingly. And if you watch that Monday Night game where Bogo is crazy, all

those blocks are set up by Marcus Allen. So it wasn't an ideal fit as far as sort of two half backs be lined together. But Marcus Allen was such a freaking consummate professional that he made it work. And the funny thing also is, since we're here, since Olivia, you have the Packer ties. The Green Bay Packers draft Tony Manderts number two overall, and that's like the draft where the only guy you didn't want to draft Tony Manners. That's that's Dion Sanders, Troy Aikman, you know, Barry Sanders,

the whole thing. Packers take Tony Manderts number two. He holds out because he doesn't want to play in Green Bay, and Al Davis calls the Packers and offers Bo Jackson for the rights of Tony Mandricks and the Packers turn them down and Bo Jackson stays with the Raiders. That would have been a good deal for the Green Bay Packers. He would have Bretton Olivia. That's gotta hurt. That's got hurt. I'm sorry. In nine, I think that was my grandpa's first year with the Packers. So I wonder if he

was in that draft room. I'm hoping not, but we're gonna say he wasn't. I think my research wasn't. There was out getting a burger the whole time. Okay, I'm curious with Bo. Do you think there was a good fit for him in the NFL? Maybe if he could have played for one city like Dion Sanders in Atlanta. I think he was made for a small market. He wasn't a guy going out, he wasn't a guy partying. He was married to that point, had kids that kind of sewed his oats at Auburn. I actually think a

market like Atlanta would have been great for him. A southern market playing in front of sort of yet a big family, playing in front of relatives. Kansas City and baseball was a great market for him. Kansasy's like the perfect city. For a guy like that size wise, so you know, Chiefs just small to mid major. He was not a big city guy, Adam. He was drafted out of high school in the second round by the New York Yankees. And it's actually funny. The Yankees draft him

super high. We're really into him, thought he was gonna be a mega star. The scout was a guy named Gus Pelouse. He goes to knock on his door and Bo Jackson won't to answer the door. He calls Bo Jackson won't pick up the phone. They call Bo Jackson's high school coats and say, um, we want to fly you and Bow to New York for Yankees Red Sox. We just want to fly you there to show you what we have to offer. Bo's high school coats goes to Bone. He's like, Yankees, Red Sox, we can go.

You didn't want to do it. Was terrified of New York, had no interest in New York. Didn't even know the Yankees and Red tie more rivalry Green Bay. Weirdly, I don't know about the cold, but market wise would have been a gray market for Bo Jackson. The other thing that always stood out to me with Bow as a kid, I mentioned tech Mobile, but then you know, and me being like a sneaker head and all those campaigns that Nike started doing when they really started picking up steam.

I always think somehow, too, we always still hear boos and stuff like that. It's somehow we almost feel like we talked about it enough for like what that campaign wasn't what that shoe was it was if you remember back then, it was either like Jordan's, which were super high and clunky, and that's really it. I mean, I also loved like the Michael chang Reebok pumps. Outside of that, there was nothing, And I just feel like you never

really got enough credit for. However, the I don't know what he had to do with the actual impetus of hey, I want a cross trainer, but that campaign and that shoe I think is part of what we see a lot today. Still. Oh yeah, it's one of the biggest. The whole bow Nose campaign is one of the biggest

ad campagne of all time. One of the greatest moments in marketing in sports crossover history is um So Bow made his only Major League off Star game and he was starting and Tony LaRusso was a manager for the American League. He had both lead off just for the moment, and it was in Anaheim. Beautiful day, picture perfect day. This is when people watch the All Star Game like and mass like it was a national viewing audience. In the booth Vince Scully and Ronald Reagan. Bo Jackson leads

off second pitch of the game. He hits a dead homer straight to center. Feel beautiful trotting around the bases, looks like a god. That same game, in the fourth inning, Nike made this major ad by to premiere the Bow. You don't know Didley ad with Bo Diddley and all the other and so they were all the Nike executives had met up at Mickey Mantle's restaurant in Manhattan to watch the game because this game at everything to Nike.

This was the big unveiling of this ad campaign. Bow hits a home run and in Mickey Mantle's restaurant, all these Nike ad execs are going crazy. They're jumping up and down, they're hugging, they're screaming. All the other pagents are sure like what, well, I don't know what that was going on here, but it was a great moment of synergy. Sports marketing, everything coming together and that campaigns is skyrocket. And the funny thing also interestingly of it,

Bo was not very charismatic. Bow had a severe stutter. And if you watch those ads he's in that ed, he says nothing. In all the ads together, he probably says six words total. It's not about what he said, it's about what he symbolized. The craziest thing to me with Bo Jackson now is that he just disappeared. He's a grandpa in suburban Chicago. I know you spoke with him, but he didn't want to be interviewed for the book.

Why do you think he's so private? What do you know of his life now or his thoughts on the book or on his career. So the thing I love about him, and in a way the thing that worked for this book, like if he were like now, like doing color commentating raider games, there'd be much less mystique to him. Right if he was out all the time, Hey, I'm Bo Jackson. If he was always commenting on I'm better than Derren Kenry or I'm better than Mike Trout, like, it would kind of ruin the illusion of it all.

And the beauty is really the illusion that he was here. He was this prominent guy. Poof he gets hurt and he kind of vanishes, and that's sort of the appeal of it all. He lives in Burridge, Illinois. He owns a bunch of companies, shovels his own driveway. He's been married for almost forty years. He's three kids. He recently had a grandson. He does autograph signings every now and then. He's super, super insanely guarded. I spoke to him at the beginning of this project for about thirty minutes on

the phone. He was lovely. He said, Um, I get asked to do things all the time. I'm not I'm not gonna help you. I don't have a problem with you writing the book, but I'm just I'm like, he just doesn't want a big neon sign over his head, saying I'm Bo Jackson. It's like kind of respect to be honest with you. I never take any offense, and I kind of respect the dignity of it. But have you talked with him since it came out? No, this is why I've been told. I haven't ready talked about this.

The book comes out and there is a part when he was in college at Auburn when he was kind of engaged, sort of kinded to two women at the same time, and whatever, you're three years old. I'm just saying, like, we do, we do. People do do stupid things. When you're twenty three years old, when you're writing a whole biography of someone's life, you do have to at least sort of and you find out these kind of things you got to write about it. It's not sles, it's

it's the thing. But I was told his wife wasn't crazy about that, So yeah, what's I get? I actually do get like I of course, so he tweeted out something like, if a biography is unauthorized, blah blah blah blah blah, you need to get it from the real source. I interviewed people for this book, bo Jackson, that book Boe knows bow he um he wrote to a dick Shop, which means Dick Shap wrote it. Any interviewed bow a million times for Dick Shap donated all his notes, everything,

all the audio recordings to the Auburn University Library. Someone made me aware of that. So when I basically had five d pages have typed out bo Jackson interviews most of which have never been used before from when bow is interviewed by Dick snap In. So I busted my ass on this. Yeah, and I want to talk about some of your su because oliving. Jeff and I have talked over the years, because I've been a fan of

his work forever. I've always been saying, this book's a movie, this books a show, this books the movie, this book show. It just was such a no brainer to me and to and to you too, I think, Jeff, but it really when I heard about Showtime, I'll tell you, like, the first thing I went through my head was amazing book to make into a show. I cannot wait to see how they executed it. And I always wondered, like, can you actually cast Magic Johnson? Can you cast Kareem?

Can you? And I was just as an actor too, I'm just curious, like I just want to see how that goes. And what a delight because everyone in that show. I never for one second bumped on the fact of like, ah, that's not magic. I just was in. It sucked me in. I thought the performances were great. And what makes me most happy now is I want this to be a run on. Jeff Pearlman books, because I always said, eighty six mets that's to me, the greatest sports story that

we have not seen really on screen. That always been I'm a Yankee fan saying, no, I know, Olivia, you probably have some gun slinger stuff. So yeah, what was that feeling like seeing one of your books be really be put on the big, small, big screen because it's HBO. Wait, so I know, like I mean serious, like I know this is like kind of old hat for you to a certain degree, Like you've been through it, You've been through TV, You've been on different shows. I've been very successful.

But I feel like for me personally, there was a moment. I really mean this, Like, first of all, people option your stuff and you never think anything's gonna come of it. And someone will give you a little money and they'll say, oh, I know someone who knows someone. You know how it is. It's always like nonsense. And I had that happen a lot. So when this happened, there was a huge moment for me. And they had this premiere party in l A and

my wife was out of town. I took my two kids or both teenagers, and there was this moment my son at the time, I think was fourteen and my daughter was seventeen, and um, they had a they had a cigar bar. They had a rolling your cigar bar. My seventeen year old daughter goes, we should smoke a cigar. We're totally smoking. And it was me, my seventeen year old daughter, my fourteen year old son, the actor Mike

Checklist and his family and we're we're smoking cigars. I don't even smoke cigars, and certainly my kids don't smoke cigars at least not that I know of. And we're having this moment and it's on a show based on a book I wrote. It was just one of the greatest moments of my life. It really was one of the most rewarding emotional moments of my life. And that it's like, my parents don't care about sports at all, my parents, but they see this and like you could

see the pride in them. I know it sounds corny, but it's really true, like the pride that they have and it means something to them. And even just people you went to high school with, their college with, who are like, oh my god, oh my god. It's cool that it brings some light to people, especially during the pandemic, during that rough spell, it just really brought something to people into me. So it was it was freaking amazing. It was great, And I think it's gonna be more

of that because now the seal is broken. We've all seen you can cast magic, you can't cast you can cast Therrel Strawberry, you can cast Dwight good In. Uh, you know. I I think I just have always been a fan, So I'm excited to see. I don't know if you have a preference of if you could pick any one of your books to be made next. I don't know if you have a preference. But it's funny the one book that has never been optioned, so different books get option that's not a bragging point, like that

just happened. You write books, and people option books. The one book that's never been optioned is my Walter Payton book Sweetness. And I just consider his life to be so dramatic and obviously coming from rural, rural Mississippi, becoming the superstar megastar in Chicago and then really falling into this post career depression and then having this kind of curates his battle at the end of his life with bioduct cancer. It just feels really narrative to me, but

nobody has shown any interest that would be the one though. Actually, in a weird way, I love that speaking of rural Mississippi. What drew you to Bret fire story? Because Gunslinger has been one of my favorite books before you and I ever discussed that. Yeah, it's actually funny. I don't want to write a five book. Here's what happened. I Uh, my dream book was a book about the USFL, the old United States Football League from the nineteen eighties, and I couldn't get a deal. Ever, I could not get

a deal for the USFL book. Nobody. My agent, who's great, literally said to me Jeff, because I kept bringing it up, He's like, nobody wants an f the usf AL book. And I was like, I know I can get a deal. I know I can get a deal. So publishing company Holt Mifflin I pitched Fire because I thought he is iconic, he's a really interesting story, etcetera, etcetera. But I said, I'll do it, but I want to be able to

do this USFL book. So I took a little less money for five and they let me write this USFL book, and the USFL book made the New York Times list, which was like a real vindictive moment for me, nothing various moment for me. Far was fascinating. Five ended up being one of the most interesting books I've ever worked on. And one of the weirdest moments in my career period is um I d mned his his sister Brandy on Facebook before I went to Mississippi, and I said, Hey,

my name is Jeff Berrema, working a book. And this is before Brett even said anything to me. And I was like, I'm working on this book. I'm gonna be in Mississippi's or anyway you want to get coffee. And she said, well, DM me when you come down. Well, I go to Mississippi, I mean the Kill, Mississippi where breats from and um I d m her and She's like, well, my mom and I are at the house. Why don't you just come by the house? Now Brett Farve has not agreed to talk to me, right, But I'm like okay,

and I uh. I go to the house. It's Brett's childhood home on like Farv Lane in Mississippi Kill, Mississippi, and I'm sitting there with his mom, Banita, who's lovely, his sister Brandy lovely, and and we're talking and at one point his mom says, so, has is Brett talking to you for the book? And to me, this is

like this is the kiss of death. This is the moment where they're like, oh, well, I go no, I don't know if he's going to hern he hasn't agreed to yet, and she goes all right, and she literally sent me home with his scrap books. She sent me home New York with scrap books which I borrowed photocophy sent back. It was unbelievable ball and I remember this.

I was driving away from their house and I called my wife, Katherine, and I'm like, I just had a great experience with Brett Farre's mom and sister and she's like, Brett hasn't agreed to talk to you. And I was like, yeah, but they're really cool. They don't mind. And she's like, don't you think that's a little weird? And I was like I don't know, and she's like, it's really weird. And then later on I was like, oh, that is really weird. She's like, imagine if someone's doing a book

on you. You didn't want him to, and your mom and dad just decided to talk anyway. But it worked out. I mean it was great. You know what this is like fast forward to now, this is what it's like to have your parents on Twitter. People ask the stuff all I think my mom tweeted Elon Musk the other day something. I know. It's just like, well, that's like when your parents are on to that's the modern day version.

Mama far with the scrap books. That's as well. I've got to ask, since not everyone's read the book, what is your favorite story? And obviously the narrative on Brett Farve has changed since you wrote the book, but what is your favorite Brett story from that book? Well, what I really love is, um, this isn't a story about

kind of a whole thing. Is when he was playing in high school in Mississippi, his dad, IRV, was a coach, and Um, they had a halfback named Charles Burton who was really good, but he was just your prototypical high school halfback. He was like five nine, probably a buck sixty. And here's your dad fire and he's dedicated to the run. We're gonna run the ball, We're gonna run the ball. You literally have one of the ten greatest quarterbacks in NFL future quarterbacks in NFL history on your team. And

he threw the ball six times a game. Times of games he would not throw and every now and then Brett would disobey and launched some eighty yard and it would be this magnificent moment. In the stands would go crazy, and his dad would be furious at him, absolutely furious at him for disobeying his orders that we're going to

run and gain four yards. And I just found the dynamic between Brett and IRV, this old school, hardcore, disciplined we're gonna do this coach and Brett, this wild stallion who just wanted to launch the ball quarterback, and that, you know, it's why you wound up Southern miss because nobody knew about him. Literally nobody knew about Brett fire He was didn't exist in a college football landscape. Are you keeping up with what he's going through right now?

And what are your thoughts on it now that you're pretty close to his story. I'll be totally honest about it. I'm horrified and disgusted. I mean, Brett Farve, you're from Mississippi, right, you're from Mississippi. It is a dirt poor state. That's not me projecting it. It's factually a dirt poor state. As a poor state in America, there is money that is designated for welfare recipients. That is money that's needed

by people. That's not some some pork government pork to have that money diverted and to be involved in some kind of scheme where it's diverted to pay for a volleyball arena at your alma mater because your daughter plays volleyball there. If that's true, which it appears to be, it doesn't just hurt my heart as a guy who wrote that biography. It just discussed me as a human being.

So not a huge fan of that one. And kind of on a lighter note, I know you're also not a huge fan of the current Packer quarterback Aaron Rodgers. In fact, i've heard you compare mc Kanye West. I've got to note what is your experience like with Aaron Rodgers and what kind of gets your goat about him? All right, I don't know. I don't hate Aaron Rodgers like. I think he's a great quarterback and guy. So when I were I'll tell you when this is not the

personal reason. But when I was working on a five book, I actually I knew he was playing at a golf tournament and I met him off the greens at a golf tournament and I was like, hey, I introduced my He literally goes, because, yeah, I know who you are. And I was like, I don't think you know who He's like, I know who you are. I was like, I'm working on this fire biography. He goes, oh, yeah, I'll definitely talk call my agent, reach out to my agent,

and we'll set up a time. I called his agent repeatedly, got blown off repeatedly. Then the book comes out and there's a moment in the book when Aaron Rodgers first met Brett five. They were in the Packers like cafeteria the first time a camp together, and Rogers says to him, hey, grandpa, and it really rubbed far of the wrong way. And I got that story verified and verified and verified and verified, and Rogers denied it, but I know it happened. And

I just find that kind of stuff annoying. So honestly, God, I have no animals store him. I think he's a great quarterback. I don't think he's a bad guy. I don't see any reason he's a bad guy. That kind of stuff annoys that out of me as a as a writer, for sure. And think of just in your daily life. You grab coffee with someone and you're telling him a story that happened a couple of years ago,

and someone else says, no, that didn't happen. How frustrating in your profession that you have to deal with that I had. I'll tell you something I had. I won't name names, but people can look it up. Regarding that book, the five Book, there was a wide receiver who I had in the book saying something and he cursed. He cursed in the quote okay this is you can look this up because it's google b and I had it

happened an he curse. This guy goes on Twitter and called me a liar and said, anyone who knows me knows I never curse. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. I get a he am from another packer. I can't even make this up. I get dam from another packer who says, hey, call me. A very well known packer. I call him and he's like I just want you to know, Blank, the guy is totally full of crap. Everyone knows full of crap. He's always been full of crap. Don't believe him. Don't get bent out

of shape over this. So these are the journeys you take in this wacky world of sports biography. Oh my gosh, and we going to be the recipients of all this nonsense and we love it. I'm having weird feelings because that sounds like my conversation with my wife where I'm like, wait, didn't you say I did not say that? Like, wait a minute, I was sitting right there when you said it. No, you don't. You're misremembering. She accuses me of misremembering. Are

we married to the name? Person? We might be? Might be? Might be? Oh, thanks for letting me go further into that story. I just I know I wanted to hear your thoughts on that. What's the word about season two? Showtime? Do we know? Do we have a date? Is it's happened? I mean, do you? I don't. Well, I could have played. I tried to figure it out. I don't think I would have fit. So I'm I'm not mad at you for not for me not being on showtime and it was cast amazing, So I'm just ready for season two.

All I just want to say, episode six, season two, I play a reporter briefly, and I filmed it two weeks ago, is what I want to say to you, Jerry in particularly, I was there for eight hours, maybe nine. They shot the same scene a hundred times. Right. I got home that night, I had a wig glued to my head, okay, and sideburns glued to my face. I was taking a shower the next morning and my head is just like a tomato because I had an allergic reaction to the glue they used to would hear it.

So I actually had to rush to Urgent Care because everything was swelling on my waist. And I don't know, like I mean serious, wait, serious question for you. I know it isn't my show at your show, but like average number of takes per scene in your life would be what you did a TV show, So I will say TV typically they would You could say they do more because it's a different director every episode or most like every other episode, and they want to make sure

they cover everything. With Entourage, for instance, we did a lot of like Warner Is like only one shot. But we'd have to do that like times, because if you have one screw up on the line, you've got to start over again. You can't just pick it up. Yeah. There, every now and then there's these directors where I will lean over to a fell act and be like, Yeah, this person is just gonna shoot every possible angle and just figure it out. They figure it out later in

the edit, you know. They let me shoot as much as I That's like for you would be like, I'm just gonna get as much information as I can. I'll figure out the book later when I get there. That's sometimes what happens with TV. Let's just get as much coverage as we can and we'll figure out what the scene actually looks like later. Not all the time. I did a story years ago for a TV guide years ago about a TV show called Love Monkey, and it

was with Tom Kavanaugh, Jason Priestley. Okay, and it's my first time on the set and they shoot the same scene times. I'm literally why I'm there, And at first I'm exciting them, just bored. And at the end I was sitting down to interview Jason pretty saying, I said, um, I'm gonna be honest, man, this seems kind of boring. He goes, bro, you have no idea, And I was thinking about that over and over again shooting my scene

for the eightieth time last week. I think a big underrated part of acting in general is just how to not make it feel like it's Take sixteen and brokering out your energy. That's why there's coffee too. Coffee gets me through some of those, uh, some of those moments. I can't thank you enough for coming on. I'm super excited.

Congrats on this book. Whenever I know there's a Perlman book coming, I sort of trying to clear my schedule as much as I can because I I gotta get to it quick before people start spoiling it for me. So yeah, my Christmas is kind of set. I think I'm gonn actually a babysitter to read this book to taste us where the kids aren't screaming while I'm reading. But yeah, the last folk here, the life and myth of bo Jackson. Couldn't think of a better topic for

a book. And thanks for coming on, and I hope we get the talk against that means you're writing another book. We're written another book. Yeah, that'd be great. Thank you guys so much. I appreciate it, of course, Yeah, thank you so much. Okay, it's time for one of my favorite parts of this show. Let's get this some Week thirteen wagering and more with bet MGM betting analysts, our odds on favorite Peter Andrew. Peter, how you doing. Have you recovered from the talking to I sort of gave

you last week? It felt a little bit sweeter after the Niners, the Chiefs, the Bills, the Dolphins all took care of business. I think the the analogy I have for last week is I just needed that little blue single, and now this is when the batting average comes back up. I was to seventeen. Now I'm back my way toward. So it needed to happen. You just need that win under your belt and then you can keep going to seventy. I don't think there's one player on the Yankees you've

got at two seventy. You've got to seventy. You're you're like an All star. That's a good point I'm talking. So yeah, you hit your safe play. It came through. You had all the favorites in the world last week. Bills, Dolphins, Niners Chiefs to win. You basically were even for the week. But now I think, and I said it earlier in the show, I think week thirty, this slate is unbelievable.

I think it's gonna be hard to pick and hard to handicap and pick winners because I do think this is a little sneak preview of the playoffs in a lot of ways, because a lot of playoff teams or potential playoff teams facing off. So Mr Blup's single what do you got for us this week? Week thirteam, So you'll notice I've taken a little bit of a different

direction here. There's a couple of teased point spreads, but I've gone a lot overs and unders, so totals to me, I think he's the player this week because is there's so many close games. Start first just Thursday night, we'll get out of the play the the one game part of that that's finally gonna hit. I think this is a safe one but still really really good value. So we saw Harris go out last week for the Paths,

so Montre Stevenson is the the premier back. Now He's probably gonna playing about of snaps any time touchdown for him Isaia McKenzie on the Bills, he has been a red zone target even with his size. I think that kind of size and speed up the middle. I think, you know, had a really good week last week on Thanksgiving, got him to score any time, and then I've just taken Bills minus four and a half, so cover the spread those two anytime touchdowns. That's plus a thousand, so

ten bucks. One unit gives you ten bucks after that steak in winnings. So I think it's a nice little wet the beat kind of gets you into the football week. So to start things off, I like that. I feel good about all three. Okay, so that's you got one unit, tend to win one ten, so you've got nine left to go. So I feel like that was the appetizer. That was a little bread and soup. Now let's see it we got coming in hardcore. Yeah, so three units

on each of these other plays. First one, Giants commanders under forty one. I think Heineke last three out of five weeks under twenty points. Uh so their offense has has been struggling. I think Giants have a little bit extra rest because of the Thanksgiving Day games, so they're essentially on over a week of rest. I think that defense will be ready to roll and Giants offense is

gonna struggle. I think Slaton's probably their only target in terms of the pass threat, and we all have seen over the last couple of weeks what the defensive line for the Commanders can do. So I see a low scoring game, probably see the Giants win in this one home at MetLife, but I can certainly see a twenty to thirty seventeen kind of game under forty one. That's the play there, Finns Niners. I think this is wildly miss priced in terms of the number of forty six

and a half. I get it, Niners number one defense in the league. This to me is a high scoring game. I think Fins probably have proved have the best offense, if not second or third best offense in the league, right around the Chiefs and the Eagles. I can see them putting up thirty points this game. I think it's gonna be relatively close. I can see a field goal game here, but this is not going to be a thirteen nothing Saints Niners game like last week to re

kill Wattle, no joke. Most they're already talking a little bit trash about his old team going back to the Bay. I can see this one being super high scoring. It kind of reminded me of SATs Niners a couple of years ago, where it was like forty seven, forty five, something crazy like that. So I see some points here and then last three units. Pains me to do this,

But Dolphins plus ten, I think they keep it. Like I said, close ten points for arguably the second best or third best team in the a f C going to San Francisco. I think that's a real fair number to hit. Brown's minus one, returning to Shaun Watson. Oh, by the way, against the Texans former team, who are horrendous, they're an easy one. That's a layup. That's a layup. So pushing that down from seven to one is seems very very logical. And Brown's team probably not in the playoffs,

but they're fighting towards it. So it's a must win for them, especially against probably the worst team in the NFL. And then Chiefs at the Bengals over forty five and a half, So tease that down. That to me is another high scoring game. You got the Bengals who have who have clearly righted. The ship Chiefs are playing as good as anybody this year. Kelsey's on fire, Mahomes is on fire. So to say that there's not gonna be forty five points the game is I think kind of crazy.

So taking the over there the others obviously minus one ten, that one's plus one forty, so that's seventy two. I really like the card this week, And like I said, I've stayed away from some of these points spreads because there's a lot of really really close games. So feel good with with the extra six points on the couple of those. But but all in know, I think totals of the move this week, Jerry, is there anything there that is a red flag concern for you? I won't

say red flag. I like what you did with the Dolphins Niners and like kind of focusing on that game. I do think there's some points and if you're right on the over, then you're probably right that that game will be less than ten. And even though you're a Niners fan, I mean, all right, so if the Niners went by seven, I'm sure you won't be crying. You'll still be very happy. If I had to flag something, I'm not even flagging it. I'm just that Brown's minus

one at Houston. I know, like, I don't think on the Texans. Again, not hot on the Texans, but we're talking about a quarterback who hasn't played football in two years. I'm not saying I'm hot on the Texans. And by the way, if the if Houston beats the Browns, that only makes the Browns draft pick more valuable, which Houston owns.

Not saying I like the Texans at all because they are the worst team in football and I think they've completely given up there now shuffling around quarter I'm just that one's got my attention a little bit because I actually do think it's gonna be a close game. But I do think the Browns prevailed. Other than that, I'm with that, And I like that you picked the Giants commanders under don't pick the Giants anymore, Pete. Here's why.

I just don't want anyone just keep us underdog. I don't want to you want like the Giants win when everyone thinks we're gonna lose. I don't like when people get people got on the train and we've lost two in a row. I don't I don't even like that I would get off the train, just let them, let them win in peace fair enough. At some point they have to be taken seriously though. I get your under the radar comment, but like, they're not the best team,

but they're a decent team. There there's the most injured te sure, so I get it. What about if I can shift to the other New York team. What's your take on Mike White going into Minnesota. This is a game that I kind of I didn't put it in here, but I might take Jets money line. I think they're probably a five or six point dog, but I think I might take them money. So you want to hear

what a maniac emotional better I could be. I was perusing bet MGM when I'm making my picks, and then also someone sent me the trailer for like the next episode of that show White Lotus, which I'm a fan of, and that show creator his name is Mike White. So to me, that was a clear cut sign that Mike White and the Jets are gonna Look. I have a lot of Jets fans of my life. I love to

make fun of them. It's really hard to make fun of them because they are really really good and look I think Mike White played a little bit last year. He had and then he played a little bit and got destroyed. So curious to see what happens. But yeah, it's it's a great story and it's a bit hard lesson for Zack Wilson. The one thing I would say

about Mike White is this shows to me. I don't want to bash Zack Wilson, but look how bad Garrett Wilson has been in the weeks that Zack Wilson started the first couple of weeks, when Flacco was playing two touchdowns, ten plus receptions, hundred plus yards, Garrett Wilson, who's arguably one of the better wide receivers coming out of the draft last year, five games of nothing, it felt like then Mike White comes in, ninety yards, two touchdowns, ton

of targets. They're using him any which way, like it's exploiting your talent with different guys. That shows to me that Zack Wilson is way too just kind of single minded in terms of what he's trying to do. And what I really like about Robert Salo, which you know he was getting a lot of heat and remember the whole I'm keeping the receipts and everyone kind of laughed, like, all right, keep him, do whatever you want when him,

we don't care. I think the Zach Wilson benching, yes, his play maybe warranted the benching, but I think that press conference was like the final thing. And I think when you see your coach hold the star young quarterback accountable, like, hey, you can't go up after a bad game and basically said you weren't responsible for that I did. Coaching wise,

I think he fully has that team behind him. It pains me to say that we just did basically a two and a half minute segment on the Jets for no reason at all other than the fact that they're good and they're a great story. Hurts my soul. Last thing, did Zach Wilson play his last game? Barring an injury to someone else? Did he play his last game as a Jet starting quarterback? I don't believe so unless we get a really truly magical look. Mike White's a great story.

I think he's very talented. He makes the easy throw. It was against the Bears, let's not forget, and they're not really even fielding a team at this point, so you can make a believer out of me beating the Buffaloes and the New England's and you know, some tougher competition. So no, and he's what twenty two do you give up on that? Twenty three or twenty three? Like, I don't think you could fully say it's it's over. I gotta get like he's allowed to make a mistake and

grow from it. So my answer would be no. Yeah, I feel like he'll be like a Sam Donald Like I feel like he's going to kind of disappear on us here because I think his character has shown he's lost the locker room. Teammates clearly don't want to play for him. They want to play for Mike White, like you mentioned that Garrett Wilson example. But I think that Robert Sala doing this was the right decision as an

organization that's ready to win now. But it certainly didn't do Zach any favors because this is kind of to do that to a young quarterback's confidence is kind of a final stab. We have to stop talking about the Jets. I'm gonna have a heart attack on the air. Literally gonna have a heart attack on the air. Alright, Pete, let me just say I do like what you got on the menu this week and uh, if this happens, you might have to graduate from blooperpete to uh bloop

single to you. Maybe it's a double, maybe it's a triple. Maybe you touch them all. So thank you as always, Peter Andrew, good luck this week. Thanks guys, h thank you Peter, and thanks everyone for listening. Make sure you follow but MGM across all social media platforms and subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode, because next week is a really good one. Jerry too. We have Michael Lombardi joining us. I know you've been campaigning

for him. He's been fantastic on the show before. That'll be fun.