Clark Kellogg Talks College Ball and Broadcasting

Tipping off Saturday at six o nine Eastern. It's number two seed Villanova, the winners of two national championships since versus the last remaining one seed, Kansas Jayhawks. They just passed Kentucky for all time wins. They are four and a half point favorite, and amazingly enough, that's the undercard because we have an epic A C C battle featuring one of the most storied and heated rivalries in all of sport. This is Michigan, Ohio State. This is Yankees

Red Sox. It's eight seed North Carolina taking on two seed Duke, the four and a half point favorite in what could be Mikachevsky's final game coaching. We know it's his last dance, although these days I never really believe anyone's retired. It's kind of hard to trust people these days. But look, these teams have played two hundred fifty seven times. Their campuses are eight miles apart, and can you believe it, they have never met in the n C Double A tournament.

That is wild, That is nuts. These are the heavyweights. Really. All four teams have won at least three national championships. And look, we had our fun with Cinderella's and upsets, but this is like survival of the fittest, and it appears the best teams ended up where they should be. Honest, I should shut up. I know you're still confused. How Yale did it make it? But what do you think

about these final four? It's incredible. Like you said, it's chalk, it's the bluest of the blue blood It's very hard to say, back to back, bluest of the blue bloods, blue blue bloods. Yeah, yeah, you're still in my heart, yell, And I know that you're gonna be most of these guys bosses one day, so you can pay them back by not giving him a full salary when they look for work after they don't make the league. I am just kidding. It's been an amazing tournament and I'm just

looking forward to this Duke North Carolina rivalry. I'm looking forward to our guests. This episode a dream come true for me. The one and only Clark Kellogg is gonna be here. I want to ask him about Greg Gumble's wig and Kenny's tattooed hairline. Please please don't ask about anyone's hairy on it's I won't, I won't. I'm just saying that show is great because him and Charles are the only ones keeping it real about what's going on above their forehead. Boy, that is, I mean, just one

of the best shows. Seeing him in studio for almost thirty years he's been at CBS, That's pretty incredible. He's gonna be such a great guest. I love how we're going from Coach K to Special K Clark Kellogg. He's gonna be so great. You've watched him all tournament long, Folks, You'll see him in the studio forget Thomas though he's Mr March. So this is this is a real treat. I wait, I thought, are we also going to cover Will Smith Chris Rock? Nobody's talking about that. I mean,

we gotta ask Peter Andrew. What the bet? Mgm thou, I am so sick of hearing about the slap heard round the world. I don't know. I don't even feel like I have a take on it, do you No, I don't have a take. I just I know that Will Smith gotten one little fight um at the Oscars and his mom got scared, and now he's got to go live with his uh auntian uncle in bel Air. I know that. I think the Fresh Prince, I think the Fresh Prince of bel Air too is coming. And

that was the setup. No, it already is coming. It's on Peacock. They have they have a reboot. I forget what it's called. It's maybe it's called Fresh or Prince bel Air. I don't know, but there I think it's called Propecia on Peacock, I know it is. Yeah, I think it's called alopecia. That's horrible. That's horrible. No more hair jokes this episode. Yeah no, that was Yeah. That tried to steal the headlines from March Madness, baby, but you can't because March Madness always wins. The final fours

come in. So sorry, Mr will Smith. It's back to basketball, especially for Unleashed. We are not an Oscar's recap show. You're not watching Bravo baby. We're on bed MGM, We're talking to Clark Kellogg. We're getting into it. We are getting into it, Twiday, Olivia, I wish we were talking Bravo boy. I need I need to have like a whole separate podcast just to do Bravo recap episodes. In fact, I should co host that with your wife, Brittany. She and I could host a great Bravo summary podcast. See

if she's up for it. Yeah, that please please, that would be amazing. I would not tune in for that. Well, you wouldn't be invited. We would we wouldn't have you on. Oh that'd be so good. Okay. We gotta get to our bad Beat winner Brad Beat all the Week. Every week we do this and you win for losing bad, but you win pretty good. And this week it's Nick Young. And it's not to be confused with the basketball player

Nick Young. This is this actual guy's name. This is not Swaggy Pee, but this is the winner of the bad Beat of the Week at Real Reel n Why he had a seven leg parlay plus two thousand seven hundred seventy five odds. Wow. He hit six of the legs, including the New Orleans Pelicans who came back from twenty and they covered. But it's always that last leg that screws everything up. So for Nick, I'm so sorry man. It was the Brooklyn Nets. They're up four at half,

they lost to Charlotte and Nick loses his parlay. That had to hurt. Fortunately, you've got a hundred dollars and bet MGM credit headed your way to U try and hit the next one. So hopefully he comes up with something good for the final four and he can listen to this episode with Clark Kellogg and he can listen to Peter Andrew at the end because that's when we'll

really break down the bedding of it. Yes, plus, want to remind everyone bet MGM gets you ready for March matchups with a special welcome off for for the a tournament. Just register for bet MGM, make your first deposit and place a ten dollar money line wager on any team in the semifinals of the tourney. If a three pointer is scored in that game, you'll win two hundred dollars in free bets. Regardless of your bets outcome. Just use the bonus code Unleashed two hundred when you make your

first bet. Enjoy the playoffs like never buff four with the King of sports Books and scoring easy win on your very first bet. Download the app or go to bet mgm dot com. Use the bonus code again Unleashed two hundred to win two hundred bucks in free bets if either team hits a three in the semifinal game you wager on. Eligibility restrictions apply. Visit bet mgm dot com for terms and conditions. Twenty one years of age or older to wager new customer offer. All promotions are

subject to qualification and eligibility requirements. Rewards issued as non withdrawal able free bets or site credit free bets expire seven days from issuance. Please gamble responsibly, Well said my friend. That is a great promo. I hope everyone listening takes advantage of that now. It is one of our favorite parts of the show. This is where we both unleash on a topic we feel passionately about this week, positive or negative. So honest, you're a first friend, go ahead,

It's time to unleash. It's time to ade. Okay o h d Let's talk a little m b A. Let's move the camera over from the boys competing attorney to the men making millions. Alright, all season long, we've been taught good about this n b A n VP race, and it's always talk between guys that don't include my guy, who's been silently crushing it in the desert down there in Phoenix. All the talk is about Steph Curry, Joel Mbi, Janice Yokich, John Moran. But what is going on with

my boy, d Booker? Is anyone paying attention to what Devin Booker has been consistently doing on the best team in the n b A with Chris Paul hurt for a portion of the season. Like I said, he's on the best team in the league, and Chris Paul hasn't played since the All Star break and the team hasn't even missed a beat. They are nine games up. You heard that right, nine games up over the GRIZ. So if you didn't think Devin Booker is an MVP can date,

then you got another thing coming. All right. Maybe you're not staying up to watch the West Coast games. Maybe that's what it is. I don't know what it is. But he's averaging twenty six point five points per game, currently ninth best in the league. He's also averaging nearly five assists per game from the two spot. And here's the best part. He's incredibly efficient. Okay, insiders know this.

Last week he dropped forty nine on the Nuggets, shooting sixteen for twenty five from the field and fifteen for seventeen from the stripe. So when Kyrie and John Morant tweet that d book is an m VP candidate and Yanni tells you on Unleashed with oh d, you better open your ears Jack and listen. Okay, the oddsmakers seem to be listening, because finally they're starting to take notice. And Devin Booker jumped up to forty six to one,

which was much higher than even a week ago. So trust me, take a little bit of that cash money you just got back from your tax season and put it on Devin Booker for m v P. Watch him down the stretch, because my man, Devin Booker has my vote. I love that light skinned brother. You already got your tax refund. It's mark Yeah. I file early, girl, I follow my going early. I gotta get I want to get that money freed up, so I can I can put some money on Devin Booker for m v P.

There you go, hey. One thing, you know, I'm in Turkey. I've got a lot of time on my hands. One thing about Devin Booker that I have loved lately. He has a really good tour of his home on Architectural Digest YouTube page. If you want to go see that. That's how I kill some time over here. I'm not kidding. This house is like the most amazing thing I've ever seen. And that's not what I'm unleashing on. Well, but you could talk about that on your new show with my wife.

I could oh h, Brittany talk talk gossip. Yeah, houses, Bravo. That's yeah, that's my second love. Okay, I gotta get back focused, because what I want to un leash on is a great tournament. Look. Every year there are critics out there that complain about the n C Double A tournament, about the committee not getting it right, or some teams being seeded wrong, or that a sixty eight team, single elimination tournament isn't the best way to crown a champion.

I disagree, by the way, if we wanted to really find out who the best team is. We probably would play series like in NBA playoffs. I like single elimination. I think it is so fun. It's so dramatic, and it's so much fun to watch. There's a reason everyone tunes into college hoops this time of year. But I love the early chaos, big part thanks to fifteen seeds St. Peter's upsetting everyone, especially Kentucky. I loved watching that one. That was fun. They made history, is the first fifteen

seed to make the Elite Eight. By the way, head coach of the Peacocks, coach Shaheen Holloway, basically earned himself two million dollars in those three tournament wins because he is now finalizing a deal to coach at his alma mater, Seaton Hall. So that's a great story. He's I think about three d thousand was his salary this year and won three tournament games as a fifteen seed, and now he's gonna be making over two mills. So that's pretty incredible.

But this year we've got something even more special. Speaking of someone who makes a lot of money, the n c Double A Final four has given us some incredible matchups over the years. Coach K has been in thirteen of them individually Final four's, but somehow we've never even seen Duke play their biggest rival in North Carolina in the tournament at all until this year. I mean, it's you could not script this any better, Hollywood, pick up the phone. This is dying to be made into the

next movie. In fact, we should do a betting game of who will play Coach K in the next movie that I mean this is. I could write that script and it would be fantastic. But on the other side is Hubert Davis. It's his first for North Carolina. I mean, the basketball gods did not disappoint us with this, and I just think it's a tough task for both coaches to bring the Steaks down to quiet the storyline in their locker room. Obviously, the colossal upset last time they played,

just a couple of weeks ago. I was on Duke's turf. Duke was really bad. At the end of the game, you know, Coach K took the mic and addressed the crowd like that. That's a part of my plot, by the way, part of the story, but it's just so dramatic. But Grant Hill has said that Duke wouldn't be here playing in the Final four if they hadn't lost that game. They got better defensively, they got tougher, they got closer

as a team. But you can also make a big argument that North Carolina would not be here playing in the Final four if they hadn't won that game. That was the last regular season game they were on the bubble. We didn't know if they'd make the tournament, let alone be seated. They were an eight seed and they won out. They've been playing their best basketball in these last couple of weeks. More confidence too, after beating Duke. Are you kidding?

They've been so confident And this is actually their two hundred fifty eight meeting in history Blue Devils and the tar Heels, but the first time in the tournament. I mean, that's just so incredible. And obviously you can't talk about Duke without talking about everyone who hates them. Um, you know they won back to back titles in two You have Christian Lightner the shot. There are people who still wear shirts saying I still hate Christian Lightner, I hate Duke.

People think they have arrogance. There's always a kind of unlikable, punchable face on the roster, the players slapping the floor on defense. If you love Duke, you love that, And that was a big storyline this year too, and just the grace and alan nous of it all. So I've got to admit in my household we veer on the anti Duke side. My husband lost to them in the National Championship Game in I think that's a good reason.

But I cannot wait for this game. You know. I'm a sucker for a good storyline, honest, and you couldn't have written this one any better. So hats off to the n C Double A Tournament. March Madness has been so memorable already, regardless of what happens after this, and I can't wait, and I bet our guests can't either. So let's get right to Clark Kellogg now and see what he has to say about March Madness. You see him all throughout March Madness, breaking down every single game,

one of the best in the business. CBS Sports College Basketball Analyst Special K Clark Kellogg, Clark, thanks so much for being here. I've got to say, leading up to talking to you today, my dad was so excited. You guys are partners on NBA two k and at CBS over the years, and he said, and I quote that you may be the nicest person in the business. He just loves you and we love you for coming on. So thank you so much. Oh, it's great to be

with you, Olivia. I love your dad. It's some Unfortunately we didn't get to work together this season, but we've worked together quite a bit over the years, and I've always enjoyed not just our time together on the microphone, but all fair. We have a lot of neat conversations about our families and what's going on. And love the vibe that he brings, the energy, the enthusiasm of passion, and we're kindred spirits in a lot of ways. So

I really appreciate him saying that. But I love your dad and love hanging out with him and two K has been great for us to journey together with two So it's been a cool relationship. What's it like working with Kenny and Charles behind the scenes? Isn't as fun as it seems, your honest, it is exactly what it appears. Man. I tell people all the time, if you don't have your laughing muscles in order and in shape, you won't last because you're laughing the whole time. Charles is just

a naturally gracious and funny guy. I don't know if you've had a chance to cross pass with him, but I played against him in the NBA. We've worked together now for several years. We've crossed paths through the fraternity of the NBA, even when I was no longer a player. I was working for the Pacers for a couple of decades after I had to retire from playing, and would see all the players as I was doing road games for the Pacers on television as a commentator, and so

we've had a long history of crossing paths. And then the last seven eight nine years we've worked together and it's just been an absolute blast, great basketball knowledge, tremendous humor, a lot of mutual respect, and as is the case with any group of sports fans when you get together, part of the fun of being able to watch games is to talk about them and debate players, coaches, strategy, and then you have fun. And him and Kenny are like to like big brother little brother, back and forth,

bicker in the whole time. I'm laughing. I'm laughing like six of the time, just laughing because those two guys, so it's been great. And then Ernie stirs the pot. Okay, Ernie loves He's like a big sibling who knows exactly which buttons to push, and so he'll spend him. It's just off and running. And Greg does the same thing in his own way because he likes to jab me. Because Greg and I, Greg Gumbel and I have worked together for almost twenty well, he came back, I became

I was full time and night. So yeah, it's been twenty twenty five years that Greg and I've worked together. So he tries all of his stand up comic routines on me first to see if in fact they work, and then that way you can take him out on the speaking It's it's it's a right man. It's so much fun and seven it's almost impossible to call it work. It really is just so much fun. Yeah, that's an all star cast there, And really, sports journalism, sports broadcasting,

television in general, it's a tough business. It's really hard to sustain success. What have you learned from almost three decades in television? Maybe that's a kind of bigger life lesson. You know, it's interesting, Olivia. I'm grounded. My faith is really the foundation of who I am and who I

attempt to be. I gave my life to God through faith in Christ in November of eighties six, So I'm coming up on thirty six years of being a christ following, and to me, it's all about seeking to follow the mandates of Scripture and how you live and how you treat people and how you work to the glory of God. So that's my audience of one and the key has been to be me, to be genuinely me, to learn from my mess ups, to appreciate and esteem the other people that I'm part of the team with, and to

enjoy it. I mean the joy that I have for for life and for what God has graced me to do as a basketball player, initially realizing the dream of getting to the NBA that was cut short because of injury after only five years, and then to have a chance to stay in the game connected to the game in this way, I'm just exceedingly grateful. And so that to me is a really primary value for me is gratitude, and that has served me well, not just in my

professional life but in my personal life. And that's how I try to approach it. I'm grateful. There's stuff, there's tough stuff going on in our business, certainly in the world, in our relationship. I mean, there's any number of things that you can see that are part of the difficulty of life. But where you have opportunity to rejoice and be joyful, I think you should do that as often as you can, and I try to walk that that talk. Like you mentioned, you know, you got injured after five years.

We've seen that happen to a few players like Jay Williams, Bobby Hurley. We actually had Frank commission Um and he was talking about his knee injury and how disconcerting it could be. What's that feel like when you feel like your dreams are slipping away? And how do you remain positive when you know life throws you that curved Yeah, you know, I go back to my faith, you honest.

It was during my injury time that I came to a personal relationship with Christ and that was really the anchor that kept me moving in the right direction despite the heart ache. It was a devastating, but I was twenty one when I got drafted back in I was twenty six when I retired, and I had a promising career that ended because of my knee troubles um. And yet I never thought basketball was the end of my journey. It was a means to an end. I knew there

was more to me into life than playing basketball. I was thrilled that God gave me the ability and that I had shown that I was capable and could have had a long career, but on my path ended up being cut short by injury on the court. And I'm thankful for all of the people in my life. My wife Rosie, we've been married, coming up on thirty nine years. We dated to three years I was in college. She's

been an anchor in a rock. I've had unbelievable people in my life, parents, extended family, mentors, teammates, friends that have helped me try to keep a good, positive perspective on where I am and where I might end up. And hey, life isn't always smooth. And I was grateful again, I go back to gratitude. Yeah, I had to retire at twenty six with a promising career in front of me, but I got there. I actually was there and proved that I belong and was probably destined for some better things.

On the court had I stayed healthy, but I wouldn't trade it to lose playing basketball and gain an internal relationship with God through Christ. I take that any day. That's really beautiful testimony, great words for anyone to hear. I think part of what you're saying really relates to March Madness of No one knows the future of a lot of these players, so it's so fun to watch

them at this stage. And we're seeing star players on Star Final four bound teams go down with a minute left in the game, and it feels so unfair and sad. But what do you think makes that special? To turn it positive about March Madness of? So many of these players will not go pro or will not have the careers maybe they envisioned. Now what makes it special in March? Well, Olivia, and you honest, I think there are so many dimensions in the human experience that are embodied in March Madness.

The wonderful highs you see from achieving a goal, and for some that goal is simply making the field of sixty eight. For some of those schools to Longwood Lancer's first time in program history, they're part of the field of sixty eight. For others. It's going from winning a game to winning two, or getting to the second week to the to the second weekend. I mean, there are

just so many elements of the human experience. Achievement, competition, disappointment, heartache, unpredictability, uncertainty, camaraderie, relationships. Outside of the games, the bands and the fans have an experience that special, whether it's watch parties or being of a tournament run or just being in the venue with other fans. So there's so many levels and layers

of the human experience. Some of the stories that we discover and uncover away from the game a blind radio broadcaster, a kid that is part of a team he's got developmental disabilities and the other team allows him to score three four buckets. I mean, those kind of things resonate on a human level. And that's the magic of March Madness is because across the spectrum of our challenges, our joys and everything in between, you see elements of that

in this three week run to a championship. And whether you're a Rabbit fan, whether you're a journalist, whether you're a broadcaster, whether you're a coach, the parent or the aunt or uncle or cousin of a player or manager. There's a connection that touches here, that touches your heart. And when you have things that are life giving and touch your heart, it's memorable and it's impactful. And that's what, to me is the essence of why this tournament is

such a cultural phenomenon. You can't explain it. You only can say that it will always deliver. It will always deliver. A needs to clip that and just make it there commercials. I've said it. I've said it. I've said it countless times in our seminars and anytime on interviews when people give me the runway, I've said that and shared that. And that's really how I feel. I mean, I felt like I was in college bas church right there. That was beautiful. You worry, honest you were, That's what just

happened there. Yeah, speaking of amazing storylines that capture our imagination. St. Peter's, their run was incredible. Not to talk too much X and OS just yet, But what do you think went wrong? Were they overwhelmed by a better team, where they intimidated by a powerhouse team. It seemed like everything went wrong. It seemed like the game they were playing kind of went out the window when they played North Carolina. Was it North Carolina that got them out of that rhythm?

What do you think went wrong for them that they got beat so bad after such an amazing run, and what went right for that amazing run. Yeah, I think a couple of things. One the unpredictability of sports is that sometimes you just have a bad day. I mean, you can't make shots. The ball is falling, it's inline, it's online, and it's somehow spits out. I mean that happens whatever sports. Your plan. In tennis, the ball is not being hit in the sweet spot of the racket.

In golf, you're missing six or eight foot puts. I mean that happens. But I think the bigger thing they actually were able to play their game. In the first three games they played primarily from the front. They only trailed by six points twice. They trailed by six against Kentucky late in regulation, I think, and then they trailed by six right before halftime against Purdue but got a

bucket to cut it to four at the half. Never trailed against Murray State, and that allowed them Janice and Olivia to play the way they're best suited to play. To let their defense dictate the control pac and then let those four guards and the big guys too that can create and make plays and make shots do it from a position of on the lead, and that put pressure on those higher seeded teams and they were able to ride that. Carolina was the only team that jumped

out to a significant lead early. I think it was a combination of that and the size across every position for North Carolina by cot Manic Caleb love Leaky Black. The size and the start of Carolina is what did the man. As a a matter of fact, leading up to that game, I told everybody, I'm anxious to see what St. Peter's does when they're uncomfortable, meaning if they're down by

more than two possessions. And Carolina jumped out I think either nine oh or nine too, and they could never find Then they missed some shots, and then that was the other part. I mentioned that they had some shots that have been falling that just didn't go and into one game circumstance that can happen. I mean, we see it all the time. So I think it was a

combination of those factors. They got behind early in the size and the quality of how North Carolina has played really just warmed down and never gave him a chance to to find a rhythm. Well, now North Carolinas headed to the Final four going to New Orleans. They've had a lot of success in history in New Orleans under team Smith, but only one one seed has made it to New Orleans to two seeds. Obviously, do you think that the best four teams are making it to the

final four? Of everyone you saw this tournament, I do, I really do now that I look at it. In a matter of fact, we all felt there was gonna be chaos, that the teams on the top four seed lines we're not gonna stay as they were seated. Just because there's so much compression across college basketball. With the transfer portal, teams are able to get older and better,

far quicker than they used to be. So that's why you saw so many of the different types of upsets and not many of the top two seed lines advancing. We've got what two two's and a one, and then we've got um who's our other team Villanova than uh Carolina, North Carolina, North Carolina. So that's fairly unique. Yeah, that's fairly unique in terms of the makeup of the final four. It's power stacked because of the pedigree of those programs

and the championships that are represented. But I think the compression was a huge part of seeing what we saw during the first two weeks and what we have remaining in the final four. They're just a more good teams and not much gap between the good teams and not many great teams. With these four, I think have earned their way there. And it's a shame that is without Moore, who tore as an achilles in that game. That's your reference a little bit ago, so we know Villanova's without

Justin Moore. He tore us achilles and that was so painful for everyone to watch. He's the team's second leading scorer, but he leads in minutes and he always guards the best perimeter player. And they've had this strong six man rotation. Now they're down to five because their bench it's pretty

non existent. Like a lot of teams in March, they really shortened the bench, and I saw stat that really startled me that players seven through twelve on Villanova's team don't even average ten minutes or two points per game. How much does that concern you? In their meeting with Kansas. Well, I've adhere to this philosophy for a long time, in my days in the NBA as a player and then as a broadcaster, and certainly as I've covered college basketball

for over three decades. I think a team is most dangerous in the first game after losing a key player, and I'll tell you why a couple of reasons. One, the opposing team exhales just a little bit. One of their key guys is not there. We're good. They shouldn't be able to beat us without one of their starters, and Justin Moore is more than just another starter. He's an indispensable, valuable piece at both ends of the floor.

The other reason, and probably the more prevalent one, is that the other guys, in the absence of a key teammate, relish the opportunity to rise up and do more, and typically played better. Will that be enough against Kansas, a team that's played at a really high level all season long and has added Remy Martin to the mix, who's been outstanding in the tournament. I don't know, but to dismiss or discount Villanova because of the absence of Justin Moore is the wrong position to take, and in the

way the Villanova Wildcats do things. They're always developing players. They have a system where guys come, they're recognizing and understanding that they're gonna wait their turn, but they're always being prepared to play. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see somebody from that Villanova roster in that seven to twelve man you talked about Olivia that hasn't played much step in and play a significant role in ten

twelve whatever spot minutes he might get. But the other guys, Caleb Daniels in particular, certainly Jermaine Samuel's, Colin Gillespie Slater, I see all of those guys raising their level and competing at a high level. Mentioned how tough Kansas is gonna be. Obviously they're the only one seed remaining. But I live in Kansas City, and I feel like Kansas has gotten here the quietest. I don't know if people don't like to give them credit due to the ongoing

investigation and in fractions or what. Why do you feel like Kansas is kind of quietly again getting to another final four. Hey, it's very simple. It's very simple. There's only so much room on the Marquee m m somebody has to be left out, Duke, and Coach K was gonna swallow up any Marquis this year. That was inevitable. That's like the Cleveland Cavaliers having great teams in Michael

Jordan's in Chicago. So somebody is gonna be left out and shortsighted, and it happens to be Kansas, a number one seed that perhaps has been the most consistent of any of these teams from start to finish, and then you factor in adding Remy Martin who was injured and not up to par most of that time. Bill self told us on selection Sunday night, this is the most whole that his team has been and he feels really good and they showed it in the second half against

Miami that Kansas team could win it all. And that's the way they're probably gonna have to play to win it all. But they're more than capable of doing that. Duke in North Carolina not a bigger rivalry in sports. They have never met in the tournament Coach K's final season. Do you think God wants to see this game in the tournament? Hey, divine intersections are real in my world,

and I'm not sure where that would land. But clearly, clearly this is of monumental, humongous significance that in this season, the last lap for Coach K, his duke team has grown up in front of us. With each passing tournament game, they've shown another level of maturity. We know the talent. I didn't think they would get to this point Olivian, honest, because I thought youth would. At some point, youth and perhaps the pressure of being part of Coach K's last

hurrah would get to them. But it's been exactly the opposite. After the loss to Carolina and Cameron in Door, that was too much when you factor in the rivalry, the quality of the opponent, the pressure that I think those young men felt with all of the former Dukies in attendance, and I mean, it was just it was a major, major deal, and to try to even figure out what they were feeling emotionally is beyond me being able to

do justice too. But since then, they've grown up and they're playing with confidence, joy and dare I say, love for each other, love for their coach, love for the opportunity to gift him something that would be super special to be part of. And that's what they're thinking about. That's how they're playing. And I think they've got the best player in the tournament and Paolo ban Carol, so I think Duke wins it. I'm excited that matchup is

just my goodness, first time in the tournament. What's this state? Oh my goodness, It's gonna be absolutely insane. And I'm already having a tough time trying to tamp Kenny down. We're just gonna be almost it's gonna be almost unbearable with that dude for the next couple of days. You know, when you look back at their meeting a couple of weeks ago, as you mentioned, it was it felt like it was for all the marbles at the time. Well,

now it actually is. And I saw that Grant Hill was making a case that both teams needed that outcome. Duke needed to lose, Carolina needed to win to make the tournament to get that eight seed. They were a bubble team at the time. We kind of forget that. What makes this time around different for both teams, especially Duke. You you said maybe they're playing a little bit differently now and coach k is adjusted a bit. Yeah. I

think we grow through each period. We go through and each game is a new entity in and of itself. You look at what happened in the past for contact, but the next forty minutes they play will be a whole new story. It won't hunt back to what happened in Cameron. But I do think as you journey through, whatever your journey is, that you have to go through some of the bumps. I think rain and sunshine are needed for growth. As a matter of fact, God lays

is out that way in creation. Grass and trees and flowers they don't just grow because of sun They need water and rain too. And sometimes trees need the winds of adversity, the real winds to be able to get their roots anchored. In Hubert Davis went through it as a first year head coach in North Carolina. It was a little bumpy criticism was coming his way, which is ridiculous to me. But nonetheless you go through periods of questioning, figuring it out, having some failures, the same with Duke,

and that's all part of the journey. And I'm excited about this matchup and I hope both I think both teams will play play relaxed and confident and put together a show that we'll be talking about for a long time. I hope relaxed. Yeah, yeah, I think there's there's a there's a there's a relaxation that comes when you get between those lines, once you when you're outside of it. I've always used this phrase, lose yourself in the game, and I was telling some of our coworkers, some of

our camera folks and technicians. When I got between the lines, it was a long time ago, but I felt the crowd and heard them, but there was no distraction from the crowd. There was no distraction from anything once I got between the lines. There were butterflies in the opening introductions, but once you get through that first period of sweat or rebound or shot attempt, it's on from there and you're lost and what you're trying to do. And I

think that's the case. I think most players would say that. I'm definitely rooting for North Carolina because I grew up with Nick fans, so I'm with you. But Davis, you know, he played for the Knicks. Behind the scenes. Is Charles just picking Duke because he wants to get under Kenny's skin? Is he just going with Duke. I'm sure there's an element of that. You know, they're like big brother little brother, So you know, anytime you can jab your little brother,

then you want to jab him. So I think there's an element of that, But I do think he also is kind of riding the wagon I'm on. As we've watched this Duke team continue to show great maturity, and there's an energy and a joy in both the players and coach k that is palpable. You can feel it, you can see it, and you can hear it and comments in the postgame press conferences, his interactions, I mean, and that's special, not that it doesn't happen with other teams,

but this is his last time around. This is a unique set of circumstances. And to see that kind of bond, that kind of power, that kind of growth take place, and to see the joy that they're playing with, I think it's gonna be a really hard combination to keep from winning that championship on Monday Night, because they've got talent to I mean, it's not like this is all some kind of emotional smoking mirrors. They got. You know, they got three or four guys that look for sure

like NBA players going forward. So the talent and the power of love is a pretty strong combination. Not to mention that guy sitting on the sidelines who knows a little bit about what he's doing. Is he the best coach of all time? I'm not quite ready to go there, ye honest, he clearly is on the short list of roll Call. You know, it's the same debate with Michael or Kareem or Lebron. You know, it's a it's father

for a talk show and barbershops and the like. I'm not ready to go there, but he's clearly, I mean, he's the list is and not just in basketball. I think it's in all in all sports. You would put him on a very short list of the greatest coaches of all times. A matter of fact, you can't put have a list and he's not on it. That's how I look at it. Whether you put him at the top, that's a matter of personal preference. But he's there clearly and remarkable his impact and influence on on the game.

You mentioned all the talent Doukas. I think a lot of people think they are the better team. But North Carolina's style is very modern, very NBA style. It's almost position lists. There are times with all five players on the perimeter. How do they match up when we get

down to XS and os. I think they match up well. Okay, yeah, obviously great points you make, Olivia, because Carolina does play a lot of four out Baycott is the one guy who typically stays anchored inside, but everybody else, particularly Manic, there's a real problem match up because of his size and ability to shoot it. He gets in there for both. I mean, they're and Caleb Love is just a dynamic

to guard who's got size and deep range. Yeah. I think they match up well, though they have to be disciplined on defense, but it's gonna be I think it'll be an up and down game. I'm imagining seventy five will be the low watermark for both teams. I think it's gonna be somewhere north of that just to terms of possessions and and scoring. But I think they match up well. Duke has shown some zone defense on occasion, which has served him well. Did so against Texas Tech.

I think it helped him a minute with Arkansas. Wouldn't be surprised to see that be part of the equation at some point. But I think we'll see a lot of exciting playmaking on both sides. In conclusion, are you saying it's Villanova Duke and Duke wins at all? Coach k rides up. I'm saying this Duke and can do coming through and Duke wins at all, that's my Duke and Kansas. Yeah, I mean, I think Villanova is gonna compete.

I don't know if they can beat Kansas. The way Kansas is composed and the fact they have inside outside balance and they'll have eight probably eight. I think Bill has been playing right around eight eight and a half guys, and I think that might at the end of the day be a factor. But I like Kansas because of their total package. But I wouldn't be surprised if Villanova prevailed.

I wouldn't. But I'm picking Kansas. I picked Kansas and Duke to get to the championship game with Duke cutting down the nets in the storybook ending for for Coach KH, I love it. If not if they lose, Do you believe that he's really retiring. It's tough to believe in sports now when someone says they're retiring. Yeah, it is, You're right, Olivia, My guess is yes, he would. I mean, there's so much that he has to enjoy. I don't

know him that well. I've interacted with him several times over the years and have great admiration and respect for him as a growing and evolving leader. I think that's his greatest attribute. He's never stopped pursuing what it means or looks like to be an effective leader. And so that's a lesson for all of us. We all have sheres of influence and opportunities to lead, and and leadership is really influenced at its core. One of my mentors told me that, and I really believe it. It's influence.

How do you influence others for good and for their weston for the good of all. And he's about that and you can see it so many ways over the years where he's modified and I think his Olympic experience has fortified some of that, and the fact that he's always eager to learn and grow and evolve as a leader. He talked about it a little bit in an article I read this year. He took a look at himself after that loss the North Carolina and how he needed

to serve this group better. That speaks volumes to what he's been able to do and as a real cornerstone. I think of his um forty plus years of success to think of how he's evolved with the Game of One and Dun's of n I l of all the way the game has changed so much when he's still able to relate to kids he's recruiting in high school,

That's that's pretty impressive. I've got one more question for you, Clark, because I think there's a fifth character in this Final four story, and that's the city of New Orleans itself. Do you think inc there might be any kind of voodoo energy where anything can happen? Are there any curses that these teams should be weary of. Well, I wouldn't necessarily say curses, or I wouldn't name them, but clearly there's an element of the mysterious that is part and

parcel of the history of New Orleans. And you can go down any road you want to with that because it does exist and it's real. Whether or not it plays out in the games, I'm not ready to jump there, but it is somewhat apropos that as we come out of a COVID impacted tournament, not having one in twenty having it in one location in twenty one with the elements between the lines that New Orleans would be the

backdrop for this particular final four. Last question for me, You've been following college basketball, like you said, for decades, so closely this tournament. What is your favorite moment? Was Christian Leidner from Grant to win it, Chris Webber calling the fake time out, Carmelo carrying the team, Danny Manning When you look back, what was the most amazing thing

you've seen in this tournament. I love all of those, and it would take me a minute to kind of rank them in order, but there's only one moment that goes to the top of my tournament moment list, and that's when our son Nick was part of the two thousand twelve Ohio University team that was a thirteen seed and made a run to the Sweet sixteen and took North Carolina, a shorthanded North Carolina team Marshall and Kendall.

Kendall Marshall the starting point guard that got hurt in the game prior, so he wasn't available, and the Bobcats took North Carolina to overtime with a chance to go to the Elite eight, and Nick played well in both games.

To get there and played really well in that game, and to me, that's the greatest basketball moment in my history, whether my plane, my accomplishments, there's nothing that will ever compare to what I was able to watch and witness and feel seeing him have his one shining moment that tops them all. From me, that's really good. Well, you

have a busy weekend ahead of you, Clark. This is gonna be a lot of Thanks so much for joining us, Pleasure, and if you aren't already following Clark Kellogg on Twitter, give him the follow at Clark Kellogg with two gs CBS. It was so much fun talking hoops with you. Thank you so much. Yeah, pleasure. Great to visit with you, Olivia as well as you Janice Um. Enjoy the tournament from wherever you happen to be. This should be fun and I'm looking very much forward to the next few days.

I'm a big fans and thank you so much. Now to take a different look at these amazing games coming up this weekend in New Orleans, let's bring in our good pal bet MGM betting expert Peter Andrew. Peter. You gotta help us out here because it can be almost more overwhelming now that there are fewer teams and fewer games, because the stakes feel bigger. So what's your advice for

people betting the final four. It's tough. It's in a in a different year if it wasn't so Chalky per Se or so blue blood, and I think you feel better about things. But I mean, you have the most underrated one seed in Kansas. I think in the tournament you have do Furst, you and see you have a our house team in Nova. That's one in the past couple of years. It's tough, and that four and a half I think on both games is gonna stay pretty flat. You may see a move half a point, but I

think you just you go with the hot teams. And I know, you know you can make a case that u NC is hot, but Duke looks incredible right now? Would they hang almost eighty points up on Tech? You have a really really good team you have in Chero, you have obviously coach k playing his last presumably two games of his career. I think you have to ride hot teams in this. It's a tough one though. I mean, if you go with Duke q n C, you saw you and see what they did, and Coach K's last

game with Cameron, they took it to him. But I think Duke comes back with a little bit of an edge here playing so well. I really like Duke minus four and a half in that first game, and then in the Kansas Nova game, Justin Moore out with an achilles injury for Nova Kansas, like I said, a hot one seed, they were the under the radar. Everybody talked out Zona, everybody talked about Gonzaga. They were really really good team. So I think I'm going both favorites here

minus four and a half. But I think these games are relatively close. You know, you can easily see a two point game, and I can see a six or seven point games, So it's gonna be somewhat close. Uh So, maybe you look for an alternate line, maybe you tease it a bit, but I think you're gonna have two really competitive games in an amazing game. Whatever happens on Monday, where are you watching it? You're watching on the big

screen there. I would like to say that I was going to the super Dome this week, but yeah, I'll be watching at home. We are launching in Canada this week for bet MGM So I'm on a flight to Toronto Sunday night, which will be super exciting, and then we have a launch on Monday, which is gonna be amazing. So bet MGM is finally international. Nice time to start

betting your looty's and two ds. I've got to say North Carolina plus four and a half looks very attractive to me and apparently to a lot of people because that's getting six of the bet scent of the handle over at bet MGM. Uh do agree with me there at all? Pete Jannice, do you want to take North Carolina plus four and a half? Yeah? I will. I want to, especially because a couple of weeks ago, as we were going into March Manus into the first first weekend, I had said U n C is a sexy number.

I think there were one to one to win at all. They'd have to go through one seed to get even close to where they are now in the final four. So this is an awesome team to watch. They looked really really good last weekend and last week so yeah, I'm that's probably the game I'm more iffy on. I think I'm definitely going Kansas four and a half. But the back and forth there for two q NC is real, like I said, especially after that that a c C

game a couple of weeks ago. And then another thing that catches my attention with some of these numbers is the under unders hit big in the Elite eight first half unders specifically, we're really successful since the Sweet sixteen, and I just feel like with a week about to prepare and to scout these teams, you can see really good defense. So I kind of like the under in in both games as I'm looking at what they are. One thirty two and a half for Villanova Kansas, but

one fifty one and a half. That's a high number for North Carolina and Duke. So I'm gonna like just say it publicly. I'm taking North Carolina plus four and a half and I'm taking the point total under one one and a half in that same game. Do you think that's a wise move? Pete makes me feel good about it. I hate agreeing that's taken under, but I'm so with you on both of them. You know, the Duke North Carolina is a little bit elevated on purpose. I think they want you to take the under. I

think God's honest truth, But I really like it. I think teams are gonna come out a little bit nervy, especially when you know you talked about UNC and Duke, especially after what happened. I mean, this whole storyline. I can see it being a very slow start. You saw that with a couple of games last week too, So I'm riding the under train with you. I love it, all right, Pete, I just gotta as so basically you

saying bet MGM is officially taking Looney's and Tunis. Now, we are officially taking Looney's and Tunis come Monday, for in Ontario only, so hopefully more provinces to come, but for right now it's Ontario. So raptors, fans, leaves fans, We've got your back. Nice all right, Very exciting, big week in sports betting, Pete, thanks so much for your time. As always, it's going to be an amazing final four, certainly sexy billing of a final four. Thanks guys,