On this episode of On Cam Ready, how you can become ready to create your own narrative podcast. At Star Seed And don't be a perfectionist because you can get too bogged down in it. That is Louise McLaughlin. She is a documentary producer and host of the podcast You Look Like Me, And she's the guest on today's episode. Hi, I'm Jamie Maglieta and this is on Cam Ready.
You know, if you are thinking about starting your own podcast and you're just not sure how to get started, be sure to check out the PDF, LinkedIn, my bio, and the description here. We try to help you think through all the steps you need before you start your own podcast. As ATV Producer with 20 plus years of experience, I help you brainstorm ways to develop your idea into a show. And if you need more help, reach out. Because I also offer consultations. Visit my website at on
camready.com. OK, now back to our guest. This conversation focuses on podcast creation, burnout and balance. Louise is a news and documentary producer. She's also creator and host of the internationally chart topping podcast You Look Like Me. It examines identity and family secrets through the lens of donor conception. Here's a clip. Neil, it went to voicemail. Fucking hell. I hung up. Why is that so stressful? Oh my God. I planned what I was going to say.
I'm going to say Hi Neil, my name is Louise. I'm calling with a very strange question, but hopefully it makes sense to you in a minute and I hope you don't find it offensive, but I was just wondering if you've ever donated sperm. Oh my God, what a ridiculous thing to ask. Maybe I shouldn't be calling him. This podcast wasn't something she jumped into quickly, you know. She brought life to the topic after writing about her own experience, and the way this podcast got started is so
unique. It's like a once in a lifetime opportunity that happened to her and her story is so inspiring and worth listening to. If you have an idea or you have some value to offer the world, be sure to write about it and share, because you never know who's reading. That's the one piece of advice I'll say you must take away from this conversation. All right, So now here's Louise. Louise has credits at CBNNNBC, Vice and BBC.
We recorded this conversation in November or actually December of 2023. With us now is Louise. Louise, how are you? I'm really good. I'm looking out my window into pitch blackness and hoping that the lighting is holding up. But yeah, no, it's it's really cool to talk to you. And I'm yeah, thanks for having me. You know, back story, we met in London and we worked together a while back at CNN International.
So for those who are who are listening and aren't familiar with either of us, we've both worked at CNN and she's actually freelancing there currently as of this recording. So, you know, just before we get into podcasting, do you mind just sharing a little bit more about how you decided to develop your idea into a podcast show and how you were juggling it all with your work at CNN and VICE and just your career in general? Yeah I mean I think I had I'm I'm kind of an ideas person.
I love like coming up with all these concepts and then I think sometimes I have too many and I don't have the follow through. But I I was just, it felt like it was really lucky timing in that I had actually just started a job at NBC. But the pandemic hit. And I had this idea from an article that I had written. It's, you know, my life story, but I had never really planned to take it public.
And then I wrote this article. And I guess, you know, when you work in news and you're like doing news of the day, you don't get that instant feedback. So you don't really know how your stories are landing or if you're making an impact. And I wrote this article which was about finding my biological
half sister. And I, you know, I got feedback from all over the world from people who were also Derna conceived like me, who were saying, you know, I've never heard anyone put how I feel into words before. And I had thought that I was writing this really personal essay that wasn't going to land and no one else would get. And I was just so surprised that it really connected with so many
people. And I was watching media coverage of kind of fertility issues and we have a fertility week over here in the UK each year. And I was noticing that there's a lot of conversations around people trying to conceive and people using donors, but there's no donor conceived people being included that those conversations. And I, I think I like went on a Facebook group and I was like, this is so frustrating, you know, our stories deserve to be heard again.
I had had the positive feedback and someone approached me and they said, you know, I think you did a great job with that article. Why don't we brainstorm? And you know, I'm, I'm happy to financially support the the first few episodes and let's, let's see where it goes. And this happened smack when the pandemic happened. And so I had this free time that honestly, you know, I I have struggled to carve out since not working at home and since not
kind of having that free time. So it was kind of, yeah, it was a mix between the story that had been bubbling under the surface, this very kind person seeing a need for these stories to be told and also just taking a chance on me off the back of that article. And then, yeah, just just a lot of things coming together, I guess. And what you're saying is not a common story.
You don't really hear many people come forward and say someone came out and wanted to financially support my story, my narrative, right you're you created this podcast. And for those who haven't listened beyond the clip I played, it is a narrative podcast, right? You're pulling clips and interviews and you're weaving together a story to really help people better understand your voice and and your your perspective, right? And I think it is just incredible.
It's almost like a a miracle that you had someone come forward because if they didn't, do you think you would have ever gone out on your own and and done this like a creative podcast? Yeah, I remember when he approached me and we were talking about the best way to do it. And the conversation was kind of, you know, well, I've gone out and I've done the print article and it did well. How can we elevate this? How can we change it? How can we grow it?
And pretty early on we were like, well, we don't have the money for TV. So, you know, do we do a YouTube series? And then, yeah, the idea just came to do the podcast and it was kind of a new world for me. I I did a bit of radio in college, but it wasn't really something I dabbled in. But yeah, I mean just even saying, would this podcast exist? Had they not approached me? Would the podcast take the form that it took? Had they not approached me when
they did as well? Because when the pandemic happened and I was recording, I found my biological father while I was recording and the fact that that happened when the podcast was off the ground and I kind of then obviously, you know, picked up that microphone to capture those moments and wouldn't necessarily have done that otherwise.
Yeah, it was just a lot of things came together and I don't want to downplay like I know, especially as women like we're so quick to say, oh, it was lucky and it was, you know, fortune and it was timing. You know, there's obviously a lot of hard work that has gone into the podcast to make it what it is, but you couldn't plan for that kind of timing either. And I I, you know, I'm very aware of that. It it expanded not only your story but also your personal
brand. You know you've been, you've become a speaker. I saw it at some fertility festivals. I wouldn't say it was a festival. Maybe it's like more of a conference. Fertility fest. Yeah, but you know, I you have become more than your article, right? And what drove you to write that article? I mean, as journalists, we all are compelled to write and share our stories in different ways. But what was it that really pushed you to put your typing to
action? Yeah, I mean that's actually a really good question I think, you know, when I found out I was donor conceived, it was such a taboo subject and it still is in many ways less so than when I was 13 and found out. But there was always this kind of, you know, don't tell, you know, don't tell friends, don't tell family, no one knows. And that it was just kind of the way it went for for decades.
And I had signed up to multiple DNA sites over the years and when I was 26, I matched with my first match, my half sister. And I met her and it just answered so many questions that I had had brewing for, you know, 15 plus years. Where did I get this part of my personality? Where do my cheekbones come from? And it was just magical, you know. And she's such an incredible person that I, you know, holding the secret, just didn't feel like the honourable thing to do
anymore. I needed to honour the relationship that I had with her now, and I don't know why honouring that relationship meant OK, we take it fully public, you know, I don't know if that was almost like a rebellion against thinking that I had had to keep the secret for
so long. And I don't think I really thought it through, you know, It was, it was like a personal essay that, you know, I almost saw it as like A blog post, even though I do look back at it and go that's probably the best thing I'll ever write, you know, It's good feeling crafted. Your story, did you already know where you wanted it to be published? Or did you publish it in like a forum and then it get picked up? So it got commissioned.
Yeah. So, yeah, I yeah, I don't, I don't know what what pushed me to take it that public, but I do believe that I would have stopped there had the reaction not been what it was. But yeah, it was. It was really just the catalyst of finding my half sister, Jess and just kind of wanting just to, you know, it. That was. I can't explain how monumental that is when you're looking for a family member and then you
find them. And I had given up at that point, You know, I really didn't expect to find someone. So maybe this was like my journalistic version of, you know, screaming it from the rooftops maybe. Maybe that's what it was. I I would agree. I mean I think that as journalists we're all mission
driven, right. And I think once you found your sister, maybe there was a sense of purpose that you had to help others, you know just keep going and to connect and to to advocate for all those that are not heard and have had to keep quiet. You know, I think it's it is a remarkable experience and something unique, right? And everyone who wants to be on camera or to start their own podcast is hoping to tap into something that you've uncovered,
right? A very unique storyline that other people can relate to. And the way you shaped it so that it was something of a advocacy effort, right? Where you're really advocating on behalf of other. What is it that you say you say donor? They can see people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think it's I think it's great
and it's very powerful. And you it is an award-winning podcast so you have to really think you know those that are listening that this podcast is definitely worth checking out and I actually used it as an example when I was teaching at Harvard as at their podcasting, one of their podcasting classes and all the students loved that you brought to light your story first as an article and then shaped that concept into a podcast story narrative and they they just really did enjoy that
you were able to basically conceive and give birth to a podcast from an article and many people listening may be in the same situation. They may have written a personal essay and are hoping to shape it, hoping to maybe expose an element of their life that they haven't really ever been able to talk about to help connect with other people.
So when you started to shape the podcast and you're thinking back, do you remember some of the steps you took to really come up with your your narrative scope and your plan for this storytelling mission? Yeah, I mean, absolutely. The, the article, like I said, was, you know, really a personal essay and there was no advocacy involved in that whatsoever. That was like me putting my brain onto paper.
But when it came to do the podcast, the person who approached me had kind of gone, you know, I want to do this for he's also done a conceived he said I want to do this for our community. So already we kind of wanted to wanted to do something that would elevate our voices and kind of hit home in a way that we thought would be beneficial. And I got in touch with a producer and I know a lot of people don't have, you know, the benefit of having a producer.
But because this was was funded you know I was able to reconnect with someone I had worked with previously on ADNA themed podcast that I had been an interviewee for and I remember chatting to her originally and she said the line you know do we want what do we want here? Do we want this to be a vanity project And I remember being like oh you know kind of taken aback and she was like I don't mean that as a bad thing by the way you know a van it. We can we can frame it around
you. We can frame it. This is my story. This is me telling it and I straight away was like no absolutely not. You know this is this is something that elevates other voices and even in like the the intro that you or the promo that you can still hear on Spotify, you know that's that's kind of like the mission statement that's running throughout it's you know we're getting voices from around the world and that that kind of changed as we went when I found my biological
father. But I think we still held, held true to kind of honouring those voices. And then we just used my narrative as kind of like this thread that kept listeners coming back and kind of like we got those cliffhangers because of the way my own story was moving. But we still had those other
voices. And it actually shaped where we went because I either copied my story, so, you know, if I found a half sibling, I would speak to other people who had found other half siblings, or I would go the opposite way. And when I found my biological father, I would then interview people who hadn't ever found a biological parent or had and had been rejected, which was the opposite.
So I would either talk to people who could kind of, you know, back up what I was saying or who had had completely opposite experiences. Had you know, and while we're talking about this, I'm still sitting here thinking, do you still talk to your half sister and your father? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. We're growing relationships all the time. Yeah. Wow. And again, we're talking about Louis the McLaughlin. McLaughlin, right. I'm saying it. McLaughlin. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't say with the accent, you say it with no, But I think it's wonderful that you still stay in touch with them. How? What have you learned from building that relationship? Oh my God. So much. So much.
Like is, is there something you didn't include in your podcast that you would you would want to tell the listeners now that maybe are listening to your own podcast and are are potentially wondering about Has anyone reached out and asked or is there anything that you would want to follow up with that's worth sharing today that could help anyone who's listening to your own podcast have maybe closure or better understanding
of where things are? Yeah, I mean people, people reach out all the time, which is amazing. You know, like, again, that kind of feedback that you get from a project like this that you don't get from like day-to-day news. But I think actually I've just come to the end of Season 2 and it's almost the opposite. As I grow my relationships more, it makes me wary of being public about them because I want to be true to the audience and I want to be true to the story.
And when I met my bio dad, you know, it was all this like swirl of excitement. And you know, since I started, when I started the podcast, I only had my half sister and now I have biological father found. I have a biological grandmother and I have 1/2 brother and an additional half sister. So that's growing and finding them has been amazing.
But we're now like a unit. You know, we have a WhatsApp that we are all on. And you know, it's like any relationship, like any family kind of family. You know, not really. But you know, it's not all perfect. And I don't want to get to a point where I start, you know, I'm not out to air things that aren't perfect, but I'm also not out to pretend that things are perfect. So I think it's just, yeah, the more personal it becomes. You just have to.
You have to balance between taking the story to the audience and then choosing not to at the same time, if that makes sense. Yeah, it does. And you know, what I'm curious about is, as you started to weave all these sound bites together, were you interviewing people on camera or on the phone? Like how did you go about collecting your sound for the podcast? Yeah, literally the way we are now. Definitely camera on if you can. I just think you connect better
with people. It's it's so much nicer to do it in person. But like I said, this was a podcast born in the pandemic like and there were international, you know, I wanted it to be a global podcast and again, we did not have the budget for me to be flying out to, you know, far-flung America. So, yeah, I mean we've, I think as journalists we've all just adapted to making this work. And is it as amazing as in person?
Probably not. But you know, we we've done it and you know, you do get great interviews out of it at the same time, especially when the connection is good. I have had versions where the connection has not been great and that has been a struggle. But yeah, mostly. Mostly it's been OK. And So what I'm hearing is you have recordings on camera that could potentially turn into a video podcast. Maybe if I went back and got retrospect. Yeah, retrospective permission.
But yeah, I don't know. I don't know what new that would. Yeah. What newness that would bring. But yeah, I mean, who knows, You know, we in the second episode, there is audio of me seeing my half sister's face for the first time. And my my flatmate recorded me sitting at a table when I had that DNA match when I found her for the first time and she sent to me for WhatsApp message and obviously her photo pops up and he's got the camera on me. And I had never planned for that
video. That was obviously amazing and one incredible thing to have. I had never imagined that that would then be turned into audio that would then become part of this podcast. So you you know, you never know where things that you record are going to go. Really, do you? Yeah. And I think with the movement right now to video, audio with YouTube monetizations and now YouTube also taking on the RSS, more people are starting to incorporate video.
I think it does make it a bit harder to incorporate it because if you are having more personal stories and maybe people don't want to be on camera for, you know. So it may be a little bit more difficult to get those emotional interviews that you were able to get by not having the camera on, but I mean, I'm all about if you can repurpose it, I bet you have more legs on that. And it's always worth sharing and connect with more people and maybe even start a documentary.
My gosh, my head's going in all different places. But I think, you know, it would be really great if we just went through a few tips for people that are trying to put their idea to action and really want to develop their own show. So what maybe are three tips that you would share to help
someone get off the ground? Yeah, I mean I think doing it on something that you are passionate about, it's so obvious, but you know, trying to guess what's popular is just you're just not going to have the the passion behind it. I don't think it's it's amazing how people like an audience and listeners can pick up on whether you're genuinely interested in what you're talking about. And again, you know, for me it was just being able to incorporate those different
voices. But I think there's so many different ways that you can do a podcast.
You can literally sit down and have a conversation and record it and not edit it at all where you can go down the route we went and we kind of made it into, you know, a documentary style where we've got those, like those teasers and those cliffhangers and that narrative running through, but then other people coming in. But I would say, you know, I've listened back to my first episode and I go, Oh my God, people are being directed to my podcast and they're listening to
that. Like, and I look at even listenership rates. And, you know, obviously I feel like every podcast will have most people will listen to the first one unless one goes viral and then drop off. It's just the nature of it. But yeah, I look back at it and I'm like, oh, there's so much I would change. But I think that's OK. I think it's OK to not know your exact style on the first episode, you know, because my podcast developed so much and changed so much as it moved
along. And some things worked really well and some things didn't work so well, and I didn't know that until I made it, you know? So would you say like your top three tips? What I'm hearing is like understanding your style, your concept and the direction of your narrative. Or how would you describe your 3 tips? Like if you were just say these are my I would. Say just get started and don't be a perfectionist because you can get too bogged down in it.
I think there's a there's a fright outside on my street that is not a tip. I would say be passionate about what you're doing because and just be genuine. Just be, you know talk to your audience like they're, they're along for the ride with you, you know, and they're invested. And it's it's, yeah, it's quite an intimate relationship again, compared to to other mediums. I think people, people really do connect through it. Yeah, it's.
I think podcasting has become so mainstream and it feels like everyone has a podcast, so I don't like it. It feels weird to get like emotional about it because I feel like everyone's doing it. But it is a special medium, you know. And as much as it feels like so many people are doing it, it's not as saturated as it appears because so many people as you and I have talked about burnout,
right? You know, after they call, it's called Pod Fading. You know, they do 10 episodes and then they can't do anymore because it's a lot of work. You know, What advice would you give someone who's hoping to do a narrative podcast like yours on how to juggle the workload with the production and your job? Yeah, I mean, if they. Yeah, if anyone finds out, I would like them to tell me. I I found it really, really difficult. You know, I did.
And what worked, you know, I had AI had a different editor for season one, and then someone who was down and conceived came on and kind of worked with me for season 2. But they weren't really, you know, they weren't over my shoulder. And I kind of had to go to them and I had to be like, oh shit, we really need to get on this now, which was different to the first time around because my producer was, you know, so on it. She was like, Louise, where is the next episode?
Where is the next episode? And I feel like I had to get that external pressure elsewhere and put it on myself. What I found really useful was going on to social media and being like, we've got a new episode coming out in two weeks on Wednesday. And, you know, we didn't like, we didn't have it ready. But then everyone would respond and be like, that's amazing. Can't wait. And you'd be like, oh God, it's like, now I've got to do it.
Yeah. So, yeah, it's just making those like external pressures I guess and kind of like almost like tricking yourself into just doing it. I'm sure other people have better ways. But yeah, I. Really. Yeah. Those are good tips. And now you keep saying on the second season. But I'm wondering, I mean, I remember you posting something about how I think you weren't going to do it anymore. Are you? Have you changed your mind? I It's TBD. CBD.
Yeah, yeah. It's I I'm not opposed to going back, but I don't want to continue it for the sake of it. And I want it to remain at the kind of standard that we built it to. And I I would like to see it. You know, you were saying about like documentary or like I would like to see it move to a different medium. I think it has potential to carry. So I don't know. I don't know. There's been a lot of changes like for me, work wise outside the podcasts, but I'm definitely not.
I'm not closing the door on it at all. But I'm not pressuring myself. I want, I want to be excited by it and I want to. I want to want to do it. And it's emotionally, I think, because it's such a hefty subject. And the bigger your audience gets as well, the more you feel like you owe it to them to do it right. And you don't have that when you start out in your earlier podcasts in your earlier
episode. Sorry. So I think, yeah, you can, you can become more critical of yourself as you go on and kind of strive for perfection. A bit too much, maybe, And it is easy to lose the not the joy of it, but the enthusiasm to get up and do it. And I think that's not where I wanted to be with it and I think that will come back. But yeah, I'm giving myself a
break for sure. I I understand exactly like I had to push mine to a biweekly because trying to do it every week it just became like a job that you don't want to to fulfill every week because it's so much work and such a big lift. So biweekly at least gives me some breathing room, but even still, you know, I was dealing with, I mean thankfully I've been able to stay on the BI weekly, but I was dealing with personal issues.
So I I mentioned it earlier and you know, having to have personal challenges come up, you really need to plan ahead and you really need to have things in the can ready in order to avoid that burnout. So some of the the advice I usually will give people is you know, really you want to map it
out. I always try to record multiple interviews at once for over 2 weeks and then I start editing and launch them as they go so that I can focus more on the marketing, the SEO if I need it, I'm more YouTube. I personally don't focus on the podcast platforms as much currently because I've been focused on testing out YouTube ahead of the RSA integration and trying to put this on YouTube as a visual podcast has been my priority.
So I don't even know. You know, I think I had like 800 downloads at one point when I looked last, which is great, you know, but it's not. I'm not sitting there every day looking at my analytics on a podcasting platform. I do use Anchor. It is free for anybody who's looking for hosting platform, but you really do want to pay for the platform so that you get all those opportunities to increase your SEO. Have your transcripts included.
So that helps with searching. There's a lot that goes into it, so it's important to have a schedule. So as I was saying one way, if you guys are listening and you're thinking, gosh, how do I avoid burnout? How do I get started and become on camera ready every time? This podcast is due. Planning it out like ATV producer, having backup plans just in case and really having your routine so that you can always fall back on it and you it starts to move like a machine, you know and that will
help. And it's hard like as as she's saying right, guys are listening, she has a narrative podcast. It's a lot of work, it's emotional. So it really depends on your topic too. For me, I love conversations and I want to just make sure that more people are hearing from the experts and that are within my network like yourself and getting to really learn from this. These TV insiders like yourself too. Being on camera, you were thrust into this like spotlight
essentially behind the scenes. Now in front of this, in front of the camera, one of the things you kept bringing up was authenticity. On LinkedIn, I recently had someone reach out and ask, you know, how do you maintain authenticity when you're talking on camera? I like this individual I guess feels as if he is not sounding like himself or he he struggles with coming off as genuine.
I personally just feel like because of our our background and correct me if I'm wrong or if you disagree or not. But because of our background we're not really afraid of cameras. Like I don't look at the camera and feel like I need to be someone different. How do you how do you present on camera and stay true to yourself, Louise? Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I I feel like being in TV can go like one way or the other in terms of like being authentic and seeing a camera or not
seeing a camera. And you know, when you're surrounded by kind of, you know, the broadcaster voice and the broadcaster stance and the hand movement, and obviously you don't have to think about that so much over podcast. But I remember when I was in college, kind of, I was doing an internship in radio and I was being trained to be a news reader. And I was trained and I was trained and I was trained and I never actually got put on air because I couldn't nail the voice that that the station
wanted me to have. And I really, you know, I really beat myself up about it actually, because I couldn't understand what I was doing wrong and why I didn't sound like everyone else. And now I am so glad I don't sound like everyone else. It's that's the beauty of doing
your own project. You know, I like I said I had AI, had a producer, but it was like this was kind of my baby that I was creating and no one was going to be like actually, you don't sound BBC enough or you don't sound, you know, as long as I'm eloquent, as long as people, you know, know what I'm saying. I, yeah, I I sound more polished. Definitely. You know, I listened back to the first episode and I'm like, OK, the confidence maybe isn't there or just, yeah, just small things
or just like the pacing. But I became more myself. I didn't become, you know, I actually learned to just speak like I speak, but a bit more. I don't know, a bit more. I don't even know what the word is. Maybe it is that you just became more confident in who you actually are and you were able to show that under the pressures of the lens or under the pressures of being on a mic maybe. Yeah, I think so. I just broke away from, oh, this is how I meant to sound.
And I just went, oh, this is how I sound, you know. And there's like there's things I do that I haven't heard anyone else really do. Like I'll I'll kind of, like laugh through a sentence in a weird way or something. But I kind of just, I don't know, I like it. It's just like and it obviously worked and it's not it. It was really cool to go from, you know, that that college student going, oh, I'm never going to be able to do this.
And then flash forward to 10 years later and this podcast that I've come up with is, you know, internationally acclaimed and I'm the same person. Nothing's different. My voice is the same, you know, It's just that I I was allowed to do it and I was allowed to not have to squeeze myself into another mold. And I think that's, yeah, that's the power of doing your own project.
And a lot of what I'm hearing her say is like confidence and being comfortable with who you are, embracing some of maybe your unique qualities to really help you sound as authentic and genuine as possible. And I would agree with it all. You know, my husband was said that on the first podcast I started in like a year ago now, my husband said I would sound like I was a music theatre junkie or someone on camera, you know, who has had a musical theatre background.
And I was like, really? He's like, you're sounding like you're on in a theatre. I was like, oh really? Gosh, I got to stop. So then I started to listen back. And I think it's also important to listen to how you sound to get a better sense. So you're like, OK, I actually, I thought that was the voice I needed to the point you're making. I was trying to fit myself into a box, but I clearly wasn't
doing it the right way. And now I just need to embrace how I sound and just be comfortable enough to talk the way I would talk to you if we were out having a coffee somewhere. And that's kind of how I keep going at least. Yeah, yeah. No, exactly. That's exactly my experience as well. Well, I've really enjoyed our conversation. I think we've provided everyone
with some great tips. But before we go, are there any like last minute thoughts that you might want to share with people who are looking to develop their own show or are just trying to look for some more tips on how to become on Cam Ready I'm. Sure. You asked me to loaded. Yeah, I mean, I I can only speak to like my own sticking points. But yeah, just going back to, I am such a perfectionist and I find it so difficult to do something if I'm not 100% perfect at it.
But you just have to. Unfortunately, unless you have like a full production team behind you and a wad of cash, which you know we don't have that luxury most of the time you just got to do it and you just got to see what works for you, see what works for the audience and just give a shit, you know, just give a shit about what you're talking about and and give a shit about your audience as well and how it lands with
them. And yeah, like I said I I think this medium is just a relationship like a two way relationship more than other mediums are and I think that's really special and really beneficial and. Yeah. And I would agree. And well, the importance is how this lands with your audience. And I hope this landed well with everyone listening. So please reach out, let us know if you have any additional
questions. If you want any more information on Louise, check out the description and there's a link to her website as well as to her podcast. Louise, thank you so much for joining us. Yay, thank you so much for having me. So good to chat. Thanks so much for watching and if you are interested in developing your podcast idea into a show, I have PDFs to help you get started. Really, I'm using these PDFs to help you think like a producer.
Once you start thinking like ATV producer, the creative juices start flowing in. The development process kicks into gear very easily. So go through my workbook and check out the PDF. They're both LinkedIn, the description to this podcast and if you need any more information about the guest, you can also find a link to everything about Louise down there as well. Thanks so much for all your
support. As we go into the new year, I just wanted to say I will be looking for more guests in the Atlanta area as I'm going to start utilizing a studio in Atlanta. And I want to make sure that I highlight people and professionals that are focused on helping you become on Cam ready in the Atlanta area. So if you know anyone please reach out e-mail me. Jamie at on camready.com. Thanks again and have a great day. I'll see you online.