Jair

What did you know about Mexico? Like what did you think you were walking into? You know like personally I was like thirteen years old when I got here. So like m in my teenage head it was like oh cinco de mayo every day. It was like a good two months worth of cultural shock. Just like really strong, like kind of like like don't even come in here, this is my territory. Like subconsciously you could feel that, you know, like like you're not welcome here. You're a fucking green goat.

In the US, we hear a lot about Mexico. And usually those stories center on immigration, if it's not about beaches or cartels. And there's a reason for all of that. People migrating from Mexico to the US is about as American as apple pie, baseball, a crush can of course light flying out of the window of a Ford F-150 on a highway. And it's been happening since the US and Mexico had a border. Mexico has had an incredible impact on culture in the US.

You know, beyond tacos. It's the country that gave us the Caesar salad, crystals as part of your spiritual beliefs, and the territory that eventually became the state of Arizona. Our fates as countries are very tied and intertwined. But what happens when those Mexicans who cross the Rio Grande or Rio Bravo as it's known in Mexico go back home?

Because that's the reality. A lot of people don't stay. A conservative estimate would say that there's over six million people living in Mexico who have returned from the U.S. I've heard some say it's closer to ten million, and that might raise a lot of questions for you. Were most people deported? No. Why would anyone choose to leave the US? It's complicated. And what happens to them after they return? Well, I'll try and answer that. I'm Alexandra Rivera, and this is United Stateless.

Since 2018, I've spoken with dozens of people who have returned about their stories. Especially those who were young enough to be Docker recipients in the US when they were there. While no two are alike, a lot of them have certain similarities. Like the vast majority of people told me the decision to leave was made by their parents. It could be that there was a relative in Mexico who was sick.

or that there was someone in the family that was facing possible deportation in the US. But generally speaking, I found that a decision was made to either bring a family together or keep a family together. But family isn't easy. And changing cultures in such a dramatic way at a young age can have a big impact on kids.

Hello, uh I'm Jay Jair in Espanol. Uh so I was actually born here in Mexico City, uh, but my parents took me ever since I was like two or three years old to the US. and uh they took me to Michigan. Jair's dad immigrated to the US on a work visa, and he and his mom joined him a few years later on on tourist visas, which they eventually overstayed. A few years after that, Jair's little brother was born. And uh yeah, then I basically lived my childhood in the US. Jair had a very American childhood.

He would run around his friend's backyard until he was covered in grass stains, listen to Soldier Boy and dance around in his bedroom, go on bike rides and explore every inch of his neighborhood. I know right now it's gone to shits. But my school is really great, like honestly. And also just uh the attention, you know, like one of the most important things in education is

s for a tutor or a superior to actually give you that attention. And I think I definitely had that and it's like one of the things that I hold on to dearly in my as my childhood memories. Because when I came back to Mexico, like that wasn't the case at all. I was around thirteen or fourteen I think, and uh my parents got divorced unofficially. Jair's parents split up when he was thirteen years old. And he was given the choice to stay with his dad in the US or move with his mom back to Mexico.

This was a big decision for someone in middle school to make. Because since Jair overstayed his visa, he wouldn't be allowed back in even to apply for another one for ten years. And even after all that time, there's no guaranteed that he would get it. So if he left the US, he might not ever see his dad again. But if he stayed, he might never see his mom again.

He ultimately decided to go with his mom back to Mexico. But here's the deal: the transition wasn't easy. I don't know because they bully you a lot. I mean just like those simple, simple words, like the most simplest words they would catch on to because I had that. Oh they were like, oh, ni siquiera sabe decir hola. Dice hola. After a lifetime of being the Mexican in Michigan who, you know, spoke Spanish and drank caritos and ate taquis. Jair came to the uncomfortable realization that he was now

The American in Mexico. That's an important thing to talk about because like you know, it's like a cultural shock. And of course when I got here, like there were s a lot of th a lot of things that I didn't understand and there that they didn't understand from me. So like we both thought we were weird as hell.

I don't know, like they were wearing skinny jeans and like we were wearing baggy clothes. And then like uh I remember like my cousin actually had his hair slicked back kind of like like really eighties style. And uh at that time like you know, we were actually you know, I was playing Fifty Cent and my my cousin was playing like banda here in Mexico, which then I got into because like it's a great band.

Mexico is not only home to skinny jeans and a memeable haircut known as the Edgar, it was also home to his mother's large extended family. In the US, he had known his immediate family and an aunt who had immigrated, but that was it. But now he was being thrown into a full Mexican family. My mom did tell me that that here in Mexico their family was really close. So I was looking forward to that. So how was it like meeting your grandparents for the first time?

It was just weird because like, oh, she's your grandma but we don't have any memories together and uh like you gotta build those memories, you know? And it's like I see how like my cousins and other families are so close to her and like you can hear the love in their voice when you when they talk to her and whatnot. And for me it was just like, Hey grandma Um but yeah, like now I guess we have a lot more memories together and we have a pretty good relationship.

But just like at the at the start it it's super weird because you're calling family somebody who you never actually had memories with as a family. So So it's kind of like, you know, meeting another new person. You you have to put your boundaries and kind of like progress slowly. The fact that Jair was basically a stranger to his mom's family wasn't the only thing working against him. And then like they kinda started hating on me because like they thought that I was stuck up.

because I spoke English and whatnot. Like I know for a fact, like a lot of people that live over there in Mexico, uh sorry, in the US, like for example, my dad, I know he would be like uh he would expect to be praised when he comes back to To Mexico, you know? And I didn't know that because I was just a teenager. But like that's something that I found out. Like people actually

expect that because you're from the US you're a lot better which is totally not true. And you know, my mom didn't help at all because she was kinda like an it girl. Like with the little Chihuahua And she was like, Oh my god, why is this taxi taking so long? And I was like, Mom, people are hating on me, could you just like not do that here? Like my grandma um made her work at a gasoline store just so that she could bajarle the huevos como it was again meh.

She was like, Okay Cabrona, like I'm gonna take all your money and you're gonna work at a gas store so you can see what it is.

This is a super common experience. Many people I've spoken with have had similar disconnects with their family in Mexico as Jair had. So to understand why, I talked to Camila Lopez, a family psychotherapist in Mexico City. Within in Mexican culture, our identity has a lot to do with our families. I mean they are like very close to each other. We don't have like great boundaries among the the the the people that that are within the family. Um of course the family is something very important.

like very important as as in your identity, as in your relationships, as in your role, not only in the family but in your life. In the US, people are encouraged to have their own identities outside of their family. I think that since they're very young American people, they're pushed to get to know yourself, go out, live for college, or I don't know, live somewhere else. And I think that makes the identity of American people a very personal one.

How many almost mythic cultural stories do we have of that lone person who doesn't work for the family business, moves to a big faraway city, and strikes it rich doing something their family doesn't understand or approve of? That's very American and the antithesis of how a lot of Mexicans view personal identity. I think that what happens is like those poor people that migrate and go somewhere else to work

They live like a paradox or like a double message. That is on one hand, you're seen as a hero or someone who who is like who has like a lot of credit for going to the outside world to work and to you know uh do a better life because these people generally bring money back to their families. Okay. So they're like a big part of the family economy. So they need them and they are regarded as heroes.

But on the other hand, at the same time, they feel this rejection and this like you are the one who left. and you are the one who betrayed us or maybe you are not that Mexican anymore, right? So yeah you talk like americano, this is horrible, like where are your Mexican roots? So they also feel like they've like if they had betrayed the family.

And they live constantly with two with two realities at the same time. And that emotionally takes a toll on people, right? Because I am the hero that went away, but at the same time I'm this lever. And I betrayed his family. And uh apparently like I wasn't even gonna go because my dad was just like temporarily over there. No. And then um oh I just did like a little like in Mexico we say no.

When like and but you don't really say that in the US, so like you know. There's things there's things that I've added now to my vocabulary where I where I try to say it in English and it's not right and when I say it in Spanish it's also not right. How was your Spanish when you returned? I guess it wasn't as good as I thought it was because like they would always make fun of me. But that was a good thing because I I learned how to speak Spanish.

really good um faster because I didn't want to get bullied. Jair grew up speaking Spanish at home, but like many people who grew up with two languages in the US, he wasn't fully bulletproof in Spanish. I think for a lot of people who don't speak a second language, it's hard to imagine what fluency looks like. It's kind of a tricky thing. Just because Gyer spoke Spanish at home doesn't mean he could live in it the same way he lived in English.

His home life was in Spanish, but his schools and friendships were in English. Like he might have been able to tell his mom how much he loved her, but he might not be able to take biology class. There's also people who grew up understanding Spanish but can't actually speak it. And some returnees come to Mexico with almost no Spanish. But no matter what your level is upon returning, there are many ways for people to make fun of your language skills. And uh here in Mexico we have this thing called

So that's the first thing that they that they did to me, you know? Alburiándome every single day. An albur or doble sentido is equivalent to a pun or a double entendre. Okay, just like this really But it would be like totally unknown to somebody coming from the US. It's like You know? But it's basic Mexico has a lot of words. In Angle. So like Just arriving to Mexico you see a lot of those names. Worst thing is like But like just arriving. Oh no, where is that? And then everyone out of nowhere.

And you know it's the context though. middle school Mexican middle school You think like Like it's a Why because they bully you a lot, but it's everyone versus everyone. Like when I first arrived I took it personal. And then as time progressed I realized that that's kinda like um I don't know, a Mexico thing, you know? Like, oh, you're getting bullied, but that's because we love you. If we didn't bully you and we didn't talk to you, that means we don't like you.

Even though Jair loved school in the US, it wasn't really something that was working well for him in Mexico. Like it lacks a lot of things, you know, it la i in inside the classroom, like sometimes you don't even have like chalks to write on the uh not to mention other materials. The teacher was just like in his own world.

Um, like other students had to help each other and whatnot. And I don't know, maybe that maybe that's the same thing over there in the US, but my experience coming from there, it wasn't like that. So like my perspective was like, Oh, they over there they They do give you specialized attention and not here.

When I was 17, I just like had that great idea like dropping out of school. And just like um like working. Yeah, and so basically I I started working at Teletech. Teltech is a call center, and call centers are a big thing for a lot of binational people. There are several large companies based in Mexico City that hire fluent English speakers to handle customer service lines for companies in the U.S. Thank you.

It's an interesting way that the US's xenophobia and deregulated capitalism have played out. People complain that immigrants were stealing their jobs and that they couldn't understand the people in India who were on the other end of the line when they were bitching that. There weren't enough chips in their bags of Lays. I guess what those folks didn't count on was that if you deported a bunch of native US English speaking adults with an American education, the jobs might follow them.

Like it's crazy, but that was my way of of staying close to the culture that I grew up in there in that call center, like everybody. had some sort of the same situation. So that was really cool in the sense that like like just like coming from a from this three year background of being with With just my partners at school that like didn't understand the culture that I grew up in and like the language and all that.

it was like whoa like like I thought I was never gonna like be able to speak speak my lingo and be able to talk about certain stuff anymore. I thought I I was just doomed to be on online forums, you know. Jair finally found people who understood him, who he felt like he could relate to. This came with the double-edged sword of having to deal with complaining Americans all day long. Oh you son of a better get my cable turned on and blah blah blah. I was like, whoa, what the hell?

Did anyone ever ask where you were calling? The first time that they actually asked me that, it was really funny because I thought I was gonna you know, they were gonna hang up on me or c or call for my manager and they were like telling me their stories like, Oh man, I'm going to Cancun That's so cool. And and I was just like my heart my heart was peeping. But I just talk with a more American accent when I don't want them to like ask that.

And it's cool because like I can switch to so many different accents and uh just like seeing how people react to your many accents is really cool. Call centers aren't always the greatest places to work for a lot of reasons. The benefits usually aren't great or non-existent, the pay isn't amazing. It's not really a career where you can move up. In that way it's a l little slice of the US and Mexico.

Credit card company call center. And and we had a match We couldn't take more than five minutes. So So this lady called Calling for a car charge. And uh I basically like was giving her the information. She like she like breaks down like at minute four, right? When when I'm about to end the call. And uh and I'm like, what's wrong ma'am? And she starts telling me like oh this is my husband's card Uh th those charges that you just told me about.

And I'm like so what happened? So she starts telling me like this whole story that she basically had suspicions like from a few months ago that her husband was like cheating on And that's when I knew like okay, I'm about to up my whole metric for it like today. Not only was Jair absolutely about to blow his metric, He was also not legally allowed to give credit card information to someone who was not the card holder. The woman had given her husband's name as her own.

So I was like, I'm about to get fired. So, so at that point, I was just like, Okay, this lady's not gonna hang up, and uh, she's telling me. like together for a couple of years. Um we had like a really good marriage. We have some kids and uh and this guy just like Shit. Like she started like breaking down like and she's telling me like Yeah, I'm gonna move with my um with my sister.

and uh I'm gonna take all his cards and I'm gonna like them all and and like at this point she's giving her like both confession you know yeah uh and calls are recorded so I was like that's not a good thing ma'am I don't think you wanna tell the cops everything You know, I think I would really like to go to Mexico now. So like she starts planting this like And I'm like, Yeah, there's a lot of cool places here in Mexico and they actually accept like I tried

professional the time they accept his credit card. Yeah they accept your credit card. And she's like And we did like travel to the And I was like at that point I wasn't like into that digital nomad thing yet. So it was like No. Um but now I think about it and I'm like So you did not take her up on it, but you kinda wish that I kept her contact, at least.

Fortunately for Jair, he has a passion outside of customer service. And that's music. So when did you fall in love with music? I mean, whoa. Uh that's a funny that's a cool thing because um that's one part where I always had Mexico in me through my parents. You know, like um Whoa, just like that opened a whole bunch of memories because um they're in Michigan. Um, you know, we as minorities always try to find places where we can have our essence and and, you know, our our roots at.

And we had a Mexican store, which was like part a barrotería, which is like liquor store, but Mexican liquor store and part record shop. So whoa, like man, they imported the best C D's from Mexico to to over there. That those were the days. Like I remember my dad used to take me to the record shop. Um he would buy me like some ducis, he would buy me like some Mexican treats. Um and he would while while I was picking my candies in the store.

Um he would go to talk to the guy at the record shop, like hey que nuevos si dis tienes para mi. He was like hey over there at Univision, they just announced that that um Camila is dropping a new record. My dad used to listen to Koda. My dad's a really rock fanatic. So he knows all the the you know US, Australian stuff. But he's also into Mexican music and he's also into Mexican rock like El Tri.

um, El Aragán, all those like like, you know, rock bands, man Um I inherited like I guess a whole scope of music and not just one genre, which I think is really important as when you want to dedicate your life to music. When Jair dropped out of school, he also threw himself into learning how to make music. He needed a way to express his feelings, so he turned to writing poetry and lyrics.

So I've been like writing lyrics since I was like 13. I feel pretty confident like in in my writing process because I can I can like you know structure a concept. Um I can basically put them down into bars or verses. And I I remember when I was like 14 years old. I picked up a dictionary. Because I was like, okay, I'm running out of work.

And so I I'm I'm going through the whole dictionary for like a whole year just because I really want it you know, like like that's I think um from from harsh times that's what really kept me like um grounded and focused is just wanting to excel. in this creative process, you know? Um even like if it's only for myself, that's something that I really appreciate. And then from from there like I was like I wanna sing. And I was like, oh shit, I don't really I'm not really the best singer.

So I moved on to rapping, right? And uh I think I found a home there because like just like a lot of rap music relates to to my struggle, you know. This was a challenging time for Jair. After he left school, he was on his own. But his mom's health was in decline. He felt a disconnect from his dad, who he hadn't seen since he left the US, and who was becoming increasingly critical of him. He was still this person who felt like he was split in two and belonged nowhere.

What are your musical ambitions in Mexico? That's something that I've been trying to figure it out. Figure out especially because of my cultural background. Um Normal rapper comma. But that didn't make a lot of sense in Mexico, you know? Because I mean, rap has been for a long time here in Mexico. It's had the same impact as over there. the impact that it's gonna have um it's just starting and it's gonna be real cool What I would really like to to talk about

It's like this whole immigration thing, like, gave me a perspective that obviously I wouldn't have had before. I I had a concept. Um and like the concept is like bring the boy back. And it's talking about like like hearing out the people who who got here to Mexico and they have no way around to the US anymore. like, you know, they were really struggling to get by over there in the US and they were

actually having victory in that. They were like, oh you know, like now I got my G D. Now I'm finally gonna be able to work here. And then oops, nope, you're back to Mexico. And and damn it's like like you had to struggle with with US hating on you, you know? And then you come here to Mexico and if you don't catch the vibe quick, then they're also gonna hate on you. So it's like a double loss, you know? So like I really wanna talk about that like

like the sentiment of bring the boy back home. Uh maybe not to actually bring you back physically, but just like for people to hear you out, you know, like like this is what I went through. This is what's happening to so many people. What feels like home right now? What feels like home? Whoa. What feels like home? I mean Like I'm I'm between two worlds. To be honest, like here in Mexico, I have like a couple of friends.

But not many close people. You know? So like the closest things I think are like my brother, uh, my girlfriend and uh well my ex girlfriend. And some like two or three friends. Which if you're hearing this US officials, this is what happens. Like we become children of nowhere. Jair isn't alone. There's a whole population of people living in Mexico who have a similar story to his. But what exactly is this country that they're going back to?

So yeah, you could say that y that it's a a city of lots of country. Because you have the best of everything, you know like you can go to the best art galleries next to that place there is favelas. Next time on United Stateless. This episode was written and produced by Alexander Rivera. Story editing by Alexander Rivera and Caitlin Pierce from Rough Cut Collective. Audio engineering by Fred.

Sound design by Fernando Hernandez Becerra of Esto Noes Radio. Music, courtesy of Sony Music and Music supervision by Zach T. This podcast was done in collaboration with Blue Remedy Media. Follow us on Instagram at United Stateless Podcast. For more information and opportunities. To donate to organizations that help returnees, visit our website at www.unitedstatelessproject.com.