¶ Welcome to Ungovernable Women
Hi , I'm Portia Mount , creator and host of Ungovernable Women , formerly the Manifesta Podcast , the lifestyle and career podcast for aspiring women . Our new name reflects our mission to reach even more listeners with stories of women who are breaking boundaries and redefining success .
I have a favor to ask you , if you haven't done so already , please rate and subscribe to the pod . Wherever you listen to your podcasts , it boosts our rankings and helps more people discover us . Thanks for tuning in . Welcome to Season 5 of Ungovernable Women , the career and lifestyle podcast for aspiring women ready to break barriers .
I'm Portia Mouw and I'm thrilled to be back . We've got a new name , but our mission remains stronger than ever helping women find their purpose , lead high-impact careers and meaningful lives . This season , we'll bring you the stories of women who forged their own paths to success . It's our time to shine . Let's dive in .
We are truly living in unique times right now and I cannot imagine a more timely moment to be speaking with our next guest .
¶ Introduction to Dr. Charisse Mullins
My guest today is Dr Charisse Mullins , known as Dr M , and she is a transformational life coach , holistic counselor and empowerment and breakthrough strategist , and we're going to get into what all of that means in our conversation and empowerment and breakthrough strategists , and we're going to get into what all of that means in our conversation .
She is the founder of Count Em three successful companies , and I mean . Her story is so incredible , and through these ventures she's delivered actionable strategies that help her clients unlock new levels of access , leadership and financial freedom , and so we will also link to her website in the show notes so you can connect with her .
She's got some amazing books and products , and you'll get a chance to invite you to take a look at those . Her latest book is called the Invincibility Code . Love that name how to Shift the Trajectory of your Life and Crystallize a New Reality . She's helped countless people get out of their own way and align with their true purpose .
She's been featured in major media outlets , including Forbes magazine , and broadcast outlets including CBS , abc and NBC . Welcome , dr M .
Hello , hello . Thank you so much for having me . I'm excited about being here with you today .
I am so happy to have you here . You know , in the green room we were just talking a little bit about just the very unique times that we're living in , both challenging the challenges and opportunities . But before we dive into all of that , I wanted to start with talking to you about transformation and empowerment .
I think those words are used a lot these days , but you have lived it , you understand it at a DNA level . So what was the turning point in your own life that led you down this path of helping others evolve and step into their power ?
¶ The Giver's Turning Point
One thing I want to say is when you're a giver , you're always giving to others . What happens when the giver needs someone to give to them ?
Say that again .
What happens when you're always empowering others , you're always giving to others and there's no one there to give to you . So that was the turning point for me . I went through a point in my life where I lost everything . I was going through divorce . I lost everything .
I went from not worrying about the price tags on things to literally sleeping on the floor with my children trying to figure out you know , basically trying to figure out what I was going to do with my life . So at that point I realized that giving is a good thing , but you have to give to yourself first .
Yes , and I think , as women , we forget that right , especially as women and as Black women , like we're used to doing for others , but women , but all women , and as Black women , we do it a lot .
Yeah , we do it a lot , we also . We do that because we're taught that when you give , you're going to get more in return . But what you have to learn is you have to learn the wisdom in giving , and so that was my turning point .
I'd given away everything that I had , I'd given every ounce of my energy , and when I needed someone to give to me , there I was looking to the left and the right and there was no one there , oh my God . And so that was my turning point . My turning point was understanding that it's okay to give , but you teach people around you how to treat you .
Say that again . We're about to have a sermon . Everyone here , in case you haven't noticed , we're about to like . It's going to be a sermon that we're jumping into here .
You teach people how to treat you . So if you teach them , you come second . You're going to always come second and that's going to be the norm that you come second . So my the point where my transformation came was rock bottom . How do I give to myself the way that I've given to others ? And that was a lesson in itself .
That is so powerful and I'm curious , like so how did you , what did you do ? Like , how did you , like , what did giving to yourself look like to start ? Because , honestly , I think some people again some women especially don't really know . It's not just going to get a manicure . That we're talking about , right , we're not talking about a spa day .
That's not what you're talking about , I don't think .
¶ Learning to Give to Yourself First
No , when I'm talking about giving to yourself , I'm talking about the understanding of what you really are and your uniqueness . What I mean is , when I talk about this , I'm talking about what do you really like ? That's a question that I wasn't able to answer At first . I know it sounds crazy , but I could not .
It doesn't sound crazy . I'm sitting here thinking about that . What do you really like ?
for example , I could not think like do I ? What is my favorite color ? Do I really like this tv show ? Do I really like eating here ? Or did I ? Or did someone else tell me that this is what you should like ? Do I really want to go and do this for others ? Or have I been wearing this cloak of guilt ?
I should do this because and so what I had to come to the conclusion , you know , just come to the realization of some of the things I was doing , portia , I just didn't like it . Certain people I was hanging with and doing things for , I really didn't like them . And that's what I mean when I say who are you .
Your transformation comes when you can look yourself in the mirror and say you have been being fake , you haven't been being real with yourself . And if you can't do this with yourself , there's no way you can be authentic with other people . There's no way you can be authentic with other people .
And it's nothing wrong with looking in the mirror saying I don't know who I am . I really do not know who I am . I don't know where to go from . Here . I got an idea of the things that I like .
I think I know why I'm here but I really don't know , and I think that transformation is about coming to that understanding and it being okay , not needing the approval of someone else to tell you . You know , if you do this , I think you'll be okay . No , but what about those times when you come in and you're going against the grain ?
Especially , as you know as a Black woman , you go against the grain a lot .
We do Like . Whether we're trying to or not , oftentimes it's just what happens .
Yeah , we go against the grain because we're told that this should be this way and we're looking at well , a little bit of innovation could be here . This could be a little different , that could be a little different .
But when you're taught that you're better when you're quiet , You're better when you don't , you know you don't come with all this stuff , all of these ideas . Just be quiet .
Yeah .
Just fit in , Exactly so . I think transformation and empowerment is about understanding that maybe I was sent not to fit in . Maybe I'm here to stand out . Maybe I'm here to help drop something in somebody's mind that they didn't think about before . And be okay with that . And just be okay with hey , maybe I am .
Maybe it is 100 people on this journey over here , but I'm just supposed to be just one person walking this journey . Is that okay with you ? Ask yourself stuff like that . Am I okay with being told I'm no longer going to be invited to the in-crowd parties ?
Maybe not . What I'm struck by is that in that self-discovery , you shed a lot of old things , right , you shed old beliefs . You shed , maybe , people you thought were your friends . Maybe you even shed family members who don't accept the person you are becoming . The more you become yourself , the more you may have to shed some people and things along the way .
Did you experience that , and is
¶ Shedding Old Beliefs and Relationships
that something that's common with the clients that you work with ?
Oh my God . Of course I experienced it because I'm from North Carolina , I'm from the Bible Belt , so when I started experiencing that maybe I'm more spiritual than religious , maybe I'm more I want to seek you know what God is , rather than being told how or what God is to me .
That is not very Southern at all , Charisse . I say this as a Californian also living here in the South .
That is not very Southern at all , it is not very Southern and so you find yourself losing a lot of friends . You find yourself in a position where people feel like , hey , you're going off a beaten path . I even had someone to tell me oh my God , are you possessed ? Is everything okay with you ? Yeah , it just got really serious and I said you know what ?
I think I need to step outside of this to find out who I really am , because I've been in this realm since I was five years old , being preached to , being talked to about how I should act , who I should hang with , what I should dress , what I should say and all of that .
And when I sat back and thought about it , I said it could be and I know this may be a harsh word it could be a little cultish for someone to tell you what you should be thinking , how you should be thinking it , giving you check boxes of approvals of if you're good enough . So what it instilled in me is just a spirit of unworthiness .
For so many years I was just . I felt unworthy of the goodness that life had to offer me .
That like hits me in my chest so hard to say that I think that would resonate with so many listeners too .
You grow up with this and you carry this weight on your shoulder that I'm really not worthy and , no matter what I do , it's never going to be good enough , and you don't realize how that impacts everything you do .
So if you're looking for success in something and deep down you really don't believe you're worthy of it , you're not going to manifest it , no matter how hard you try .
And how could you right , and I can imagine too this like feeling of unworthiness then translates into like we're always trying to please other people , we're trying to make ourselves likable , lovable , worthy of it's .
So it's external right , and what I'm hearing you say is we start by getting to know ourselves , understanding who we are , and sometimes it's as fundamental as , like what do I like ? Do I really like all these things I've been doing ?
Do I really like to do them , or is it something that I've been told or I've just gone along because that was the easy thing to do ? And so what I'm hearing you say is you have to really fundamentally challenge some of your core beliefs . Sometimes , if you don't really understand , if you can't answer the question who am I Like ? What do I like ?
You got to start with the basics first .
Yeah , you start with a basis of aligning your values . In my book , the Invincibility Code , I talk about my top 12 values . Now , they don't have to be in the same order as mine , but you definitely have to identify your core values so that you can adjust your actions . If you don't know your core values , you're going to live by someone else's Amen to that .
You're going to live by someone else's values , and so it's not about is something wrong with the Bentley or the Lexus ? Yeah , it's about identifying . Why do I want the Bentley or the Lexus ? Why does this resonate with me more than it resonates with you ? And that's the problem .
We have other people's preferences because we don't know what our values are , and so when I start aligning mine , I realized that happiness was a top value of mine , integrity was number two , freedom was number three . I had been trapped so long I didn't realize that I wasn't happy because I didn't have a sense of freedom in my life .
You don't even know what freedom was . You don't know what freedom is right .
When you're being dick-tagged to every day of how you should act . Oh , that's deep , that's not freedom . And so when you look at freedom in everything , it should be a freedom to think , a freedom to speak , a freedom to act according to your values . And what is that ? And when you identify that it makes everything in your life so much easier .
I'm giving you an example , Just as an example , if you have friends and they're always asking you to do things right and you think I'm obligated to do it just because I've been knowing this person for a long time , or they're my friends , if you stop for a moment , you may realize that some of the things that you've been doing for people you don't really like
doing it , we just do it because well , she's my friend and I'm obligated . No , you're not . It's okay for you to say you know what . I've been thinking about it , sarah , and I don't think I like doing it . I don't think .
Do it yourself . Do it yourself , but that's big right , like it's big to . You know I can . This resonates for me so deeply because I know so many women I know I was in that camp too of like somebody asked me to do something and one . I didn't want the confrontation of saying no , but then I would say yes and I would feel kind of resentful Charisse
¶ Aligning Your Core Values
, of like I would do it , but like my I call it my inner monologue . My inner monologue was like why am I doing this for this ?
You know what I ?
mean Like I right , and so it's like well , that's not healthy either . If I'm not doing it with joy , if I'm not doing it with a sense of openness , then why would I say , why am I saying yes to things that I really want to say no to Right ?
And that's the , and especially what I'm hearing you say is like but the way we can maybe circuit , we can short circuit that as getting really clear on what we and I'm a huge believer in core values as well because then all the incoming , it's easier to sort out the incoming that's coming at you , cause you'd be like yes to this , no to that .
It's easier to sort out the incoming that's coming at you because you're being like yes to this , no to that , whatever , because you know where you stand . But I know so many women who are like , yeah , well , you know , I just feel like I should do it because I've always done it . And well , why , why ? Why are we saying yes to all this ?
excuse my language shit that we don't want to do . Exactly the stuff that you really don't want to do , exactly the stuff that that that you really don't want to do . And you sit there later saying , oh my god , right , exactly .
And then we're like trash talking , we're trash talking it later now . That's not aligned . That's not aligned is it ?
let me listen I'm talking to myself too , by the way , just so you know you know , I told someone the other day I told , I told a lady , the other woman the other day I listen , what do you think a person is doing when they're asking you to do something that you don't really want to do ? And she said what do you mean ?
I said they're exercising their power of selfish . You haven't done it yet , so you walk away resentful because you haven't activated that power . When you activate that power , you realize oh , it's so much deliciousness and saying no to things , it's so delicious , it's like no , it is delicious .
I've never heard it described that way , but it is very delicious . There's deliciousness in saying no and I'm going to this . I'm going to remember this , this part , forever .
Yeah , yeah , it's delicious . And when you realize that , oh , I did that with no explanation , right See , sometimes , when we say no , we go , oh , because I feel guilty .
Guilty . I got to . I'm going to give you the whole story about why I couldn't do it . Yes , because I feel guilty , because I feel guilty sometimes . Yes , yeah , I'm going to give you the whole story about why I couldn't do it . Yes , because I feel guilty , because I feel guilty sometimes .
Yes , yeah , I had this conversation with my children a couple of years ago . I said going forward , when I tell you no , it's just no .
It's just a no , like , I'm not going to explain it .
I don't owe you an explanation . I do not .
So say no without it and say no . Normalize saying no and not explaining yourself , right ?
Because when you look at guilt , when you look at guilt vibrationally , it's very low . To feel guilty about something is saying you're not exercising your power . Yeah , low vibration , exactly why would you feel guilty about doing something good for you ?
So if I tell , you no , it's not a bad thing , it's just good for me . You just have to adjust , yeah , and I get to do more of what I want to do . Right , when I say no , it allows me .
Listen , this is the reframe we all need , because it is like Therese , I know you know this , but like I and even the especially the women I coach saying no is a struggle . Like we've seen the books , we've seen the articles , we all know that no is a full sentence and yet we still can't say it .
We still can't do it . I was at an event and I and I did an exercise and I told the women in the room turn to the woman to your right and just say no . It was women that came up to me after the event and said I just had a problem even saying no to a stranger .
Wow , I said see , this is why this exercise is so powerful If you can't say no to a stranger , to a stranger , yeah , she said . One lady told me I just could not do it . I don't even know you and I can't say no , wow , I can't say that to people that I do not know .
I'm going to have a hard time gauging , helping people gauge their expectations when it comes to me the people that I know . So it's not about being right and wrong . It's about assisting people with gauging their expectations when it come to you . Yeah , that's really what it is Assisting them with gauging their expectations they should know .
Well , I'm not going to ask Portia this because I already know she's probably going to .
That is deep right as opposed to . I'm gonna ask portia because I know at least she'll say when everybody else tells me no , I know she's never gonna say no to me exactly and that that was .
It was a turning point for me to transformationally , financially , having to adjust to people doing whatever they wanted to do with their finances and being calling you saying can you assist me ? I had to say no , I'm okay with you not having what you need , because you made a choice to do what you wanted to do with your finances .
And now you want to come to me , but for so many years , portia , I did not know how to do that . I would just say , okay , I'll help you , I'll do it , I'll help you . I had to realize you know what that is is . It is spiritual , emotional and financial abuse and people have a hard time accepting it .
You are being abused when you cannot say no to people and they're constantly asking you to do things that are not making you happy . They are emotionally abusing you and whether or not you want to accept that or not , we can talk about that in another segment .
No , I mean , I think again like you're dropping some gems here because I think that we think of sort of spiritual . Because I think that we think of sort of spiritual , emotional , we think of abuse as being the physical right , like we all understand what that means . I think we are starting to understand what emotional and financial abuse look like .
But I bet there's a lot of women walking around who if you laid it out for them , they would be like Ooh dang , like that's , like that's me , I think . I don't think we're as educated on that at all as women .
And I think it's really tough for us as women to look at it , because , as mothers as you know , people that guide homes we're always providing , we are always nurturing .
Always , I always joke , I'm the COO of everything . Like , it's like , you know , like , and it's , it's really true , right . Like . Oftentimes , when you take mom out the picture , the house , like the house falls
¶ Emotional and Financial Abuse
apart . There's a reason why the beehive collapses when the queen isn't there . The queen keeps the beehive functional when a hive collapses oftentimes .
There's a lot of reasons why hives collapse , but one of the reasons is when the queen if something happens to the queen and I think the equivalent is like mom , right , when the family can collapse when mom isn't there .
And that's the case for us , even in corporate . I mean , you're , you're , you're running these , these , uh , you're in directors , you're executive and executives in these major positions , you're keeping the high flowing , you know and and behind the scenes , not getting any of the credit , but making everything run everything , every credit , but making everything run .
You're making everything run and you have to stop to say , you know , are these people that I'm doing this with ? And let's go back to family , because this is the thing . Yes , Especially with family , whether it's sister , brother , mother , dad , it doesn't matter are they taking me for granted ? You know ?
Am I just saying yes to them to , like you say earlier , to prevent conflict . I don't really want to argue with my sister . So , okay , yeah , you know , I don't really , even though I don't really here just take the money , or here just I'll go do it .
I'll do it myself . Listen , that is yeah , I'll do it myself . Let me , if there's one thing I have worked hard to eliminate out of my own , like lexicon , it's I will do it myself .
I will like I will slap myself on the face if I feel myself getting ready to say that no exactly , exactly , and because what you're , what you're teaching people is if I don't get it right , of course she'll do it sooner . She'll do it sooner or later , right ?
Teaching people how to like to your point . So this point that I love that you've made is you teach people how to treat you , and so that's kind of what I think .
What I find a little scary about that is it's the accountability of like I'm responsible for how , how people like I don't know how I feel about that , sharice , because you know , like it makes me feel some kind of way to think I'm treating , I'm teaching people how to treat me , and yet also it feels like I have more control over it than I think I do .
Exactly , and I know , when you look at it like that , you want to say no , because they do this , and that no , no , no .
Exactly . I'm trying to tell you all the things that they do that I don't like , and it's why it's their fault . That's exactly where I was about to go is . Let me tell you why it's their fault and why they are trash people , why they're trash humans and why I'm victimized by that . But I'm hearing you say something different .
No , no , no . First of all , you're not a victim , you're a survivor . So don't allow anyone to victimize you . It doesn't matter who it is . So the first step is to accept and acknowledge that this behavior is continuing . Because I am allowing it ?
Let me tell you a lot of people I know don't like to hear that , but it's very true , isn't it ?
Yeah , yeah , yeah it is . I'm allowing it because people are only going to do what you allow them to do . They're not a tree and you're not a tree . I tell this to my children all the time . You're not a tree , you're not planted . You can get up and move . You can make a different decision in a split second . You can make a different decision .
And if you're going a hundred miles down the road that's why they have brakes on cars you just hit the brakes , put the car in reverse , turn around and go in a different direction . And you should have the power , have the strength , to tell someone . You know what .
I did do this for you last week , but I was thinking about for why I don't want to do it today .
I've just aligned my values .
I've identified my values and I've realized that happiness is important to me , freedom is important to me , integrity is important to me , and if I'm not being in integrity with myself , sorry sister , I can't be in integrity with you . And with that being the case , no , you can't . No , I can't do this for you . It's a hard no .
It's a no for me . That is so powerful , and so I guess the thing that I'm also really struck by Charisse is there's a deeply spiritual component . Everything you're saying is very pragmatic , spiritual component . Everything you're saying is very pragmatic , right , it makes a ton of sense .
But also you balance the practical and the spiritual , and I'm just curious how you bring those two worlds . How did you learn to bring those two worlds together ?
worlds together , and how can we do that for ourselves as well
¶ The Spiritual and Practical Balance
? Okay , so for me it was just a transformation of understanding what I am , not who I am .
So when I came to the understanding that I am a spirit having a human experience not the other way around I'm not trying to figure out how good I am , I'm not trying to figure out my worth anymore so the realization came to me that if you have the ocean and you go out and you scoop a piece of the , put the ocean in a cup , you just have the ocean in
a smaller container . You're still the ocean , you're still the ocean . So if I am , all that spirit is , I am all of the goodness . I'm already great . Everything that I have is already in me , I already possess these things . So I don't need someone outside of me giving me some good checklist for an approval to be these things .
So when I came to that , I understood that I'm not my labels , I'm not my titles , I'm not the certifications that I've gotten along the way . I'm so much bigger than that . And so when I came to that realization , I understand well , it's okay to walk my own authentic journey .
Then , yeah , it's okay for me to say to Portia oh , that works for you but not for me . It's okay that if you do that , but I don't have to do that to be happy , I don't have to do that to be whole , I don't have to do that to be fulfilled , that to be fulfilled .
You know , I'm the type of person where if I get a good book and I have some good music in the background , on low , I'm good .
I don't have to go out every weekend and do all these things . You don't need to be in the streets .
I think that came from age too . I'm about to tell about age .
Listen , listen . You better talk about it , because I tell people I had that moment in life and I , like , I was in the streets at some point , you know , years back . And for those of you who know me , don't don't blow up my DMS about this . I don't need to be in the streets anymore , like that's just not my thing , you know .
But you know , god bless it to those of you who are still in the streets have fun , have all the fun , have all the fun and look cute doing it . And look cute doing it .
How I mixed the spiritual with the practical is having and I hope this is not a fit , so what I'm about to say but having just common sense , the common sense of knowing that it is okay to be you and you are where you are and that is enough . And that is enough . And I'm not talking about stopping your growth process , I'm not talking about that .
I'm talking about being able to look at yourself in the mirror and and I have a two-minute mirror technique that I like to get people to do just stare at yourself for two minutes .
Most people can't do it most oh gosh , this is like we're not doing tiktoks , we're not , we're not doing reels , right ? This is not like you're doing an instagram reel kind of mirror thing is what I hear you saying .
The mirror thing I'm talking about is standing in that mirror and look at yourself and say positive things to yourself Reinforce you , strengthen you For two minutes , set a timer . You would be surprised people who come back and say , dr Moses , I can't do it . I only last 10 minutes .
I was going to say I bet you a lot of . I know many therapists do this exercise . I can imagine some people can't do it , can they ?
No , no , I've had someone that called me and said I only made it to 20 seconds . I didn't have things to say to myself . I didn't even know how to continue to look at myself in the mirror , and it's really deep . Myself in the mirror , and it's really deep . It can be a total awakening to realize , well , what is going on with me .
When I see the goodness in everyone else , yeah , when I see myself , I see myself . Am I really seeing the reality ? Am I really seeing reality ? So one of the spiritual and practical things that I like to do is how are you really truly saying this ? So mixing those two together is understanding . Oh so I'm just having a human experience .
I'm so much bigger than these things that I am experiencing . It's not the other way around , and when you come to that , you realize that things are always working out for you . But things are always working out for you even when you don't see it .
I believe this . I believe this . I believe that things always work out for me . Everything's always working out to its greatest good , greatest and highest good .
I believe this . I believe that to the core of my being , that even when I cannot see it , I'm always at the right place at the right time to meet the right person to shift the trajectory of my life . And that's what I say all the time your shift is coming . It doesn't matter where you are right now . Your shift is coming . If you genuinely believe that .
Amen . So I think I'm struck by a couple of things . One is how much unlearning has to happen for us to get to that point right you talked about . Like you know , I'm from California . I grew up sort of I would say I was more like a holiday churchgoer . I didn't go to church on a super regular basis , even though my parents belonged to a church .
I moved to the South where , like religion is everything , people want to know what church you go to . They're inviting you to their church , everything's built around church . I moved to the South where , like , religion is everything , people want to know what church you go to . They're inviting you to their church , everything's built around church .
But I felt , always felt , reject . I always rejected that .
What I , what I felt was the dogmatism and the prescriptiveness of traditional organized religion and but having many friends , including my husband , who grew up at Pentecostalal right , grew up Pentecostal , it's just , it's very and so you know , listen , this is not a knock on anyone's chosen religion , but it really is about the fact that , like when we grow up in
certain traditions they imprint on us very deeply and if you move away from that , there's a lot to unlearn , especially if that , if what you've learned is harmful to you , right ? Not all religion is harmful , but there's some aspects that are not the best for us , and so I'm struck by how much you have to unlearn in this process .
You have to unlearn a lot , because you know , being from the South , it's always been a like you say , a dogmatic thing that you're unworthy . You're just unworthy , no matter what you do . You're just unworthy . You're at the low end of the totem pole and you're always striving to prove yourself .
So you have to unlearn that if you're truly all that God is and this is what this is also also indicatable , as they say that we are one then I have to unlearn all of the things
¶ Navigating Change in Uncertain Times
that I've been taught about how bad of a human I am . You have to start there , you know , and so , starting there , it can be very difficult . You'll find yourself vacillating between the two . You know a lot . You're like I think I can do this , I think I'm working yeah , one moment , then another moment , oh , I'm not working .
And so it's sort of like riding a bike yeah , you get on and you fall off , and then after a while , you kind of get it when . Okay , I've fallen off this bike quite a few times . I can ride it now . I'm going to be okay . I'm going to be okay . It's nothing that you bring to me that's going to change my mind about the way I see myself .
You know , it takes time , though .
And what I particularly resonate with is the spiritual being having a human experience . I think that is a really powerful reframe and I think the other reframe that you've given that I think is powerful is that everything works out for its highest good , not that it works out according to what was in our project management plan or on our planner , right ?
Let's just be just be clear , like we all , you know , we talked about like you want to make God laugh , talk about your plans but that those things work out . You know the way they need to and you know , in the green room , you and I were talking about just how really chaotic and uncertain things feel and I don't know if you're .
You've got a number of different businesses . You've been very successful as an entrepreneur and CEO and a business owner and we talked about the fact that , like you know , I know for me , like some of my business some of my business , not a lot of it , but some of it has shifted because the political environment has changed .
Right , I'm a speaker and there was actually a conference I was going to go , I was going to be one of the keynotes and that the person who was putting on this conference they'd been putting this conference on for over a decade , lost all their corporate funding like literally overnight , and they had to send out a note telling everyone hey , listen , this is not
happening anymore because we don't have the funding , but we're going to regroup . And I just thought , wow , this is really happening . And so one I'm curious , as you're talking in your own business , what are you seeing ? But also , how are you helping your clients sort of make sense of something that's really hard to make sense of ?
Let's just be clear it don't make no sense . What's happening ? Let's just say it don't make no damn sense . And yet , if we ground ourselves in reality , it is happening and so we have to cope . We can't just shut it out completely , but we also can't become a victim to the constant onslaught of negativity .
So how are you dealing with that for yourself and what are you saying to your clients as well ?
Okay , so let's address one of my businesses disaster recovery Okay .
And talk about what that means , what disaster recovery means to .
Disaster recovery is we assist . Assist uh states , cities , municipalities recover and rebuild that infrastructure out okay , so this would be a government contract , essentially right .
Or or like a state or some kind of state contract , right state government state government contract .
Okay , the current climate , what is going on ? right , my car , my car and they're like oh my God , are we going to lose our funding ? All of this is going on right now , and what I've been saying to individuals or women who are impacted by this , or just my clients , is going back to what we said earlier .
We're going to activate the power of no , but in a different way . We're going to be very intentional and very selfish right now , and what I say to them is in the face of all of this , it has nothing to do with you , do not look at all of this as something to fear . Change is inevitable .
It's the only thing that's constant in the world , and what we have to do is regroup . Look at this from is this a personal attack on me , or it's just change ? Is this contrast that's coming before Contrast ? Yeah , like , is it contrast coming before something great ?
So , where you have some people who are saying , oh my God , they're changing this , they're ruining my life , I have a Zoom I'm going to be on in a couple of days that says , oh no , we're going to look at this as a change and how are we going to shift our trajectory and still win in this climate ?
So it's all about tell the people how are you looking at what's going on ? Are you looking at this is a deliberately a deliberate attack against me , or are you looking at what's going on ? Are you looking at this as a deliberate attack against me ? Or are you looking at , oh , it's just change . I've gone through so much in my life .
I know how to shift with change , so it's all about perspective , and so anything that we're dealing with right now I say this to anyone do not look at it from a standpoint of fear . Nothing is greater than you . This is going to pass .
Some of these things that we're dealing with , we'll look back at it and laugh , and some things we absolutely will not laugh about .
Yeah , I'm not laughing now . We're not laughing now , but I do . Well , actually , some of it is laughable , but not in a good way .
Yeah , I was telling someone the other night . I said for the first time I actually get up and I look for what is my laugh of the day . With this climate , like what is my laugh of the day and not really don't take things too serious .
Don't take it too seriously , don't take it too personally . I resonate with that and you know it's like . On the one hand , I think there's a a like . You know , for the first month or so I was just like I can't deal , let me just turn it all off .
Then I went the opposite direction where I was like glued to the news and that wasn't healthy either , because I found myself , like I call it , like my reptilian brain , my monkey mind was like , really , you know , you get dysregulated by just the onslaught of bad news , and then it , you know you get dysregulated by just the onslaught of bad news , and then it ,
you know . But I agree I resonate so much with like it is change , change is always happening . It is not all good . I also think that I was talking to a client of mine and they're , you know , it's a public policy institute and they deal with racial and economic justice .
And one of the things that I'm struck by is like when you know your history right , you know your history , we know that really . Like not without being falsely positive , right , like toxically positive incredible things happen in chaos .
Things happen in chaos and it is those of us who choose to lead in and through chaos and to meet , help , meet , guide people through it and meet them on the other side of it . And so that's the framework I've chosen to be in , as opposed to like and I definitely had my woe is me . Oh my God , what is happening ?
Let me not be like I was all zen about it , but when I thought about it and I thought about just you know , because I read a lot and I understand , you know history somewhat it's like we have had incredible things happen , especially as Black people , but you know , I would say you know many marginalized groups as well Like we can do amazing things in adversity
if we can put it in perspective . And also , what I love , what you're saying also , will , is hold the center of who are you ? What do I believe ? Who am I ? Why am I here ? What are my values ? That , to me , is really powerful anchor in this time where just it just feels like crazy time .
I don't know , maybe , maybe I'm just , maybe I'm talking crazy right
¶ Abundance Mindset and Manifestation
now .
No , no , no , you're not , because you have to understand that . It's deliberate . If you have a bunch of darts stalled at you , you have to focus on what am I doing right now ? Yeah this is not the first time that my life has been torn to hell .
You know what ? This is true , isn't it ?
This is true , and when you look at it and say I've dealt with bigger things than this .
Yeah , yeah , yeah .
When you look at it , as you're a small potato compared to my power . I'm not going to allow your distractions to get me off course .
To knock me .
off course , I'm going to anchor myself in my truth and things are still going to work out for me .
This is the message right here . This is the message .
Yeah , I'm going to anchor myself in my truth . I think about a big ship with a big old anchor right now . That's what we need to do . We need to anchor ourselves in our truths and do not be moved and do not be moved .
I get chills thinking about that because I think what if we all , collectively , like in our community , believed that right ? Collectively , like in our community , believed that right ?
You know , it's all the everything is flipping around us , but we're like , we hold steady , we hold firm , and that to me , is just a and with the belief and I think this maybe gets at . Some of you talk a lot about manifestation too and your writings and the belief that it will work out . Is that part of the manifestation Like how you know ?
Again , that's one of those words , by the way . I believe deeply in manifestation . I have seen it work for me . You can't see my office , but I have a vision board . I do , and I do the old school vision board Like I don't do the digital one . I have to build mine and I and Charisse , I've been doing one for three , four years .
Everything I have put on this vision board has come true . If I hadn't experienced it for myself , I would tell you you are speaking insanity , but I believe it . And so I wonder , as you , as you talk about , believe everything will work out for you . How do those who maybe are kind of newer to the thoughts around manifestation like how do you do that ?
Because it seems kind of woo-woo out there new age nonsense , but it is real , it's real . So how do we like for those who are just kind of tuning in and thinking like , oh , I'm kind of interested , I've heard the word , but I don't really ? You know , it's not an Instagram post , it's real . What does that mean ?
What it means for me is really understanding what abundance really is . I love that word , yeah , yeah , abundance is more . When you think about manifestations , you think about them as a whole , not just a car , a house , money and all of that . You know what I'm saying . But when you hear that word , you hear manifestation .
That's the first thing people think about . Oh , you're talking about me getting a lot of money .
Right , I right this house . Yeah , it's a thing , a material thing yeah , right , no .
When I'm talking about manifest manifestations and abundance , I'm talking about understanding I love . You've used this word a few times , yeah I'm talking about understanding , and if you like the word understanding , you can use that too I love interest .
Now , I love it , let's , let's . I want to go with your word . I prefer it . I feel like it's a different .
It has a different vibration to it so if you , if you , when I talk about it , I'm talking about understanding of the fact that nothing that I desire is truly outside of me . So when I'm talking to someone that has never heard this before and they say what are you talking about , about this abundance and manifestation thing ?
Do you truly believe that what you desire came from some part of the sky ? It's not really real . I can't have it . No , because if someone else has it , they are no more deserving to .
You gets back to the deservedness and worthiness , Gets back to the deservingness and worthiness right .
You get next to the deservingness and worthiness , and that's the time that we're in right now . The time that we're in right now is not to fight , it is to build . We're in a turn right now where we shouldn't be fighting .
We should really embrace abundance of what we really are and build and collaborate with those with that understanding to manifest the things that we desire you . Fighting is just a distraction . It's just a distraction Because , if you look at it from well , this has nothing to do with me .
This . Just I can't even tell you , I just have these chills and there are a few things I want to just kind of maybe zero in on . So because you said something , a couple of things really profoundly .
So one is like this abundance mindset which is like it's about building , it's about collaboration , finding your people out there , finding your chives out there , and building because that's the force multiplier .
I also hear you saying it's about it's back to what we talked about the very beginning , which is like believing you are worthy , like you are already worthy , you don't have to earn it , and I think that is a very kind of rebellious , if you .
I'm going to say it's a rebellious thought because we're living in a time right now , where everyone's telling us there's not enough of anything . There's not , we have . There's not enough of this , we got to cut this , we got to pull back that , we have to get rid of this . We're going to we're .
These people are taking things away , and so your message is very rebellious in that it's the complete opposite of that which is there's . Not only is there plenty , there's more . Like you deserve it . You deserve it and , if you can believe it and you see it in others , like it's available to you , like that , to me , is incredible .
I like that word that you choose , that word that you chose rebellious . It can be looked at as a rebellious mind .
Yeah , it is because it's not status quo . Right To your point earlier , it's like maybe I'm not going to think like everybody else , I'm going to think like this is what I believe , and that , to me , is kind of rebellious , in the best sense of the word .
Well , I think that distractions are deliberate because thoughts are things . That's right . If people can get you to start thinking on a certain track and thinking a certain way , they get you to crystallize realities based on what they do for you .
But if you can say , but if you can keep the mindset of abundance , of I'm healthy , I'm wealthy , there's more than enough in the world .
There's more than enough . I can get my share . I can get . Yeah , it's available to me .
I don't have to compete with anyone .
Yeah , that's right .
There is no competition , there's more than enough . You can have your share , I can have mine . We can be doing the same things . We both can get rich . We don't have any competition because there's more than enough . If you can practice that mindset and maintain that vibration , all of these things , you soon fall away and you realize I was worried for nothing .
That is deep . That is deep . How do people practice so ? How , like , what's a practical thing that people can do to ? Is it journaling ? Is it , you know , daily affirmations ? Is it all of those things Like what's a really you know for someone who's listening to this going like , hey , I'm okay , you've got my attention ? How do I practice that ?
How do I start ?
So how do you start ? Let's go back to what we were talking about , because I will have people listen to this and say , well , I've done those affirmations , they don't work . They don't work . Well , they don't work because you don't know what you are .
No shortcuts , no shortcuts .
Right , there's no shortcuts for this . You have to genuinely deal with how you're seeing yourself to activate this . You can't use somebody else's . Well , I'm just going to write this down because Portia told me to .
No , that won't work .
Your belief starts with believing in yourself .
Right here , do the work first with yourself .
Do the work with yourself , and what you'll find is doing that work . You will find that you are gaining confidence . You'll find that you know that . You know that you know that what you're saying is true . Everything that everybody else has been telling you about yourself is a big old fat lie .
I already know , I know .
And when you know this , you you release thoughts yeah that crystallize into these things and after a while , portia , you'll just start saying this is funny , this is , this is not even a , this is like a miracle , but things are happening for you , yeah , yeah . It's happening so fast that you're like wait a minute .
So I would just want to encourage everyone Do not be distracted by all these things . Yeah , stay focused on what you are .
¶ The Invincibility Code
Know that you're greater than all these other things that are being thrown at these darts that have been thrown at you , and really embrace abundance in all that . It is not just the material things , because I say to people all the time what are you going to do with a car when you're mentally stressed and sick ?
Listen .
What good is the Bentley when you're mentally stressed and sick ? You can't do anything .
Listen , when your blood pressure is up and you're pre-diabetic and your hair's falling out and you gain 52 pounds like what does it matter ?
none of that matters . So when we embrace the understanding that I'm , life is happening to me , not the other way around . You're not creating anything . It's already created . Everything that you desire is already done . That's the reason why I say things are already working out for you .
Yeah , it's already in motion . It's already in motion , it's already in motion .
The only thing you have to do is keep your confidence , and that's what distractions do they have ? To throw you off your game . It's true , isn't it ? I'm serious . They throw you off your game and then , the next thing you know , you start believing something different and all those things start manifesting in your life . So there's the lack , the poverty .
Now it's our phones , it's , it's everything .
And so what I take that to , what I take that to mean also , is , like , everything we allow into our heads whether it's social media , whether it's the people around us , whether it's television , whether it's anything like you , we have you got to be on guard about what you allow into your consciousness , because , like all of that , you're right .
Like if you're fed a steady diet of you , ain't shit , or we're falling apart , or this country's falling apart , or these people are taking your opportunities . Eventually , you start to believe that and we essentially put that back . And I do believe thoughts become things . I tell this to my kids all the time .
If every day you told yourself I'm stupid , guess what , guess what happens . If every day you tell yourself I'm no good at math or I don't do this very well , guess what happens . You make that true , and so what you're saying is so powerful , Cherisse , in terms of just like , really think , like watching our thoughts , and it's just incredible .
Okay , so this is . I could literally talk to you for two more hours and you know you and I were talking about earlier . I said , you know , because we , we this was on our original recording date and I said , but you know , something tells me this is the right date and I again no accidents . Right , there's no accidents .
Everything happens when it should happen . So this is the fun part , because we've been talking about some really deep thoughts . We've been having a deep conversation here . So we always like to have a little bit of fun with our guests to wrap up with our lightning round . So my first question for the lightning round for you is what is your superpower ?
So my superpower is invincibility . Oh , I love it so quick . I think we all should adapt that , because invincibility is about bending but not breaking . It's about having a fortified or a fortress in your head about what you are , who you are and where you're going .
And if you get knocked down seven times , you just get up , dust yourself off , re-hit the reset button and go it again . We go , let's go again . We're not giving up because we know we're going to get to that goal . So invincibility .
Because it's already . It's already in order . I love that . I love that . I think my last question for you is what's a motto or phrase that defines your personality or mindset ?
And maybe you've answered it , but like what I did already , but I want to leave it . I want to leave it with everyone because I want you to have the confidence in knowing that things are always working out for you , no matter what you're doing .
So my power phrase is I'm always in the right place at the right time to meet the right person to shift the trajectory of my life . Someone I'm going to meet . I don't care if it's in a grocery store , I don't care if it's at some meeting or some event . I'm going to meet that person and we're going to collaborate and we're going to take our lives
¶ Closing and Final Thoughts
to the next level . So that's my phrase right place , right time , right place , oh my gosh .
Dr Charisse Mullins , you have been a gift today . I'm so grateful to you . I cannot wait for our listeners to hear this . We are going to link to all of her socials and the show notes and to her website . She's got some really great resources on their website . Please check them out . And to her website . She's got some really great resources on her website .
Please check them out . And , dr M , so lovely to have you here . Thanks so much for the gift , the gift of your time , truly today . Thank you so much for having me .
I'm so grateful for the opportunity to be here .
Thank you so much Thanks for listening to Ungovernable Women . Our producer and editor is Megan King . Our social media manager is Destiny Eicher . Be sure to rate , review and subscribe to our show on Apple Podcasts , spotify or wherever you listen to your pods . Your ratings help other listeners find us .
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