46. The Great Mormon Showdown, A Debate With Jacob IsBell

Murder. Mayhem. Mormons. Why not? You know me and my favorite subject, but let's make it a little dicier. Literally. I found another Exmo and we are together collaborating to make bloody tales just for you. Blood Atonement, a new series from Unfiltered Rise and Hellfire Agency where we take you down that murderous path. You're not gonna wanna miss it. We'll see you there. Ladies.

And gentlemen, hello again, and welcome to another episode of The Unfiltered Rise. And today I have with me a firecracker of a guest, Jacob Isbell, disciple of Christ Channel. And how are you today? I'm doing quite well. Speaking of unfiltered, I have my unfiltered apple cider vinegar inside of my Mason jar spring water from the North Ogden spring. So just for the unfiltered occasion. Thank you. Yummy, I hope it's not gritty. Is it good? No. It is. It is a little bit of apple

cider vinegar inside of there. Can I talk about myself? Can I talk about myself? Yeah, let's do it. A channel on YouTube called Disciple of Christ. One of the main things that I do on there is people's faith journeys, but sometimes I get cantankerous with others on YouTube as well. One Jacob Hansen of a thoughtful faith, one of the corporate Mormons. I will be wrestling him. Not a verbal sort of spat sort of thing. A physical hands on.

One another wrestling match where I get to take home one of his limbs. It will be general conference weekend. Roy UT Powerhouse MMA, all 5 foot six of me and my beard will be taking on Jacob Hanson. And if you buy tickets and show up in person, you can tell me which of his limbs you'd like me to take home with myself. So Jesus did get physical. I know that Jacob of the Old Testament did wrestle an Angel, so I'm just trying to follow up in that vein of things. I'm a Jesus dude.

I've been a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ, the Latter Day Saints, and I got myself kicked out of that church for learning for myself that Joseph Smith was not a which is controversial to say the least in XMO and Momo circles. True, we got a X, MO and a pneumo, right? You call it, call it Pneumo. Yeah, Quaiku. Quaiku is the one who coined that term.

I think it works quite well and and the pneumo is I would say like the like the actual fundamentalist like what was being taught in the days days of Joseph Smith and and I I'm quite convinced that it was the pure doctrine of Jesus Christ. There's a lot of stuff that has been added on afterwards which I which people should be leery of. Right, right. No, I agree. And I mean, you know where I stand on it, we differ quite a bit.

But I think that it's fair to get all the aspects out, especially against mainstream because we both know that's not true. Yeah, yes, and. Would you say that your audience is primarily latter distinct background, whether they're active or or not? I. Bet they're mostly Christian. I'm I bet you they're mostly Christian. But I know quite a few have written me and said that they came out of the church. So, I mean, we probably got quite a few Expos, probably more than I'd.

I'd never heard of a new MO before I I met you. It's it's a very recent term that that's been that's been coined I would say this to my to the Christian audience that is listening or latter whatever brand of latter day St. X latter day St. that you might be.

Most of what I do is try to help people turn to the Savior Jesus Christ and I think that that's found very clearly inside of the Book of Mormon and the and the the teachings of the Restoration. But there's a lot of horrifying baggage that's just a part of the corporate church today and and I think that's what makes most active members of the LDS Church incredibly insecure regarding their teachings.

It's and it's it's sad to see that happen because there was only one or two generations ago some pretty strong intellectual horsepower going on from the church, and that has vanished. Right. Yeah, it it's definitely been watered down as the years have gone through. And I mean, I remember a time growing up in the church, the mainstream Mormon church, that Joseph Smith wasn't a polygamist. All of a sudden he is a

polygamist. I'm not really sure when that changed, but it it was not always the case. I can at least speak to what's inside of the correlated material. So before I was even born in the 1970s, the correlation department of the Church really wanted to make it so. Anybody who's getting a publication from the church is all getting things within

certain bounds. In the 1990s, all of the different lesson manuals, teachings of the presidents of the Church, there was one from Joseph Smith and from Brigham Young and many others. None of them ever acknowledged polygamy going on. The closest that they got was some of the men who had multiple wives at different times because they became widowers and ended up marrying again.

President Hinckley was pretty clear with the educational department of the church saying that's one of the things to wear. If we ignore it, it's likely to go away. They did not understand the implications of the Internet. They clearly didn't have prophetic vision on how people will be able to find original sources and circulated and make sure that that those who are interested in a particular topic now have a much better ability to learn for themselves closer to the source, if not the

original source. So I know you were saying on our last time together that you don't do the Masonic Temple rites either, right? Is that part of your church or I can't remember. I don't have a church. In other words, for me, like people call us pneumos, I am a disciple of Jesus Christ. The biggest you tell me would now be an appropriate time to kind of give the background, Oh, what my background has been, because I think that that would make sense, I think. People need to know, yeah.

Like when people, when you're asking like what about this, what about that? It would it would be important to understand this. I was my father's, a convert to the church. He in his 20s, he was in the military and it was a it was a special event from him. He recognized the Spirit intervening in learning the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. Among other things. It means that myself and my four other siblings, we were raised active in the church.

Myself and my three brothers were all returned missionaries. I had my initial come to Jesus moment at age 15. I had to change certain things about my life. I recognized the voice of God via the Spirit, telling me to abandon my old life and to follow him and and I did.

I never looked back. It was a very sincere trying to turn my heart to Jesus, and I even remember lamenting because I knew I couldn't be. I knew my own weakness even at 15, that I wasn't strong enough to be a disciple the way that I wanted to be a disciple. And I I recognize now it's it was awareness of the weakness of my own flesh, me and a teenager and and and whatever you're dealing with growing up.

But I was, I was a very enthusiastic missionary as a teenager, teaching and baptizing friends. And then from ages 17 to 19 to when I became a full time missionary, I was living in Southern California. I went out with the missionaries in my ward and as well as the Spanish speaking missionaries, a few different sets of them every day for for about a year and a half. I'm I'm telling you, if there's 30 days in a month, I'm probably out 25 of those days with the missionaries.

They got me a key to their apartment and everything else. I read my stuff. I was an abnormally prepared and enthusiastic sincere missionary when I was when I was in the mission field. I'll I'll just share the first time that I actually heard the voice of the Lord, like specifically a sentence because I felt his prompting since a young age when I thought in my first area, when I thought I'm going to have 100 baptisms my first month and then 1000 plus

every month thereafter. Because the only thing that I had to go off of was the testimonies that I read in the scriptures. The the the power of the Apostle Paul and others in the New Testament, the sons of Messiah in the Book of Mormon. And those are the missionaries that I identified with. So when it's going nowhere in Devil's Lake, North Dakota, and I'm about a month into this, I went to my bed earlier than my companion so he wouldn't hear me

cry. And I went to my bed and I knelt down and I started to pray, asking Heavenly Father why am IA failure. I felt my heart just just weep because I wanted to be the kind of missionary that I read about in the scriptures. And before I could indulge in the sorrow I was feeling, I heard nine words directly. I am happy with the work you are doing and it called me. It was it was like the voice of the Saviour telling the the sea

to be still. I felt it calm my soul completely and I could not feel sorrow because I realized, well, if he's happy and that I that's all that matters.

Later on, when I was, when I was about 20 years old, about one little bit less than one year into the mission, I recognize I don't understand the Atonement, the way that I need to to testify of it. Like, I believe conceptually, the atonement is what saves us from physical death and spiritual death in in other words, the the the death of the body and the being cut off from the presence of God.

I understood that conceptually, but I recognize there's some spiritual knowledge I don't possess regarding the Atonement, and I also recognize I don't care enough to really ask my Heavenly Father in faith yet. And so I started to pray every day. Heavenly Father, please help me to have desire to understand the atonement and that would be my prayer morning and night. And and I had already learned how to carry a prayer around in my heart.

Heavenly Father, please help me to please help me to desire to understand the Atonement. And I prayed for desire and I think it took a few weeks in a row. But then I felt my heart change. My heart longed to understand the Atonement of Jesus Christ and I could feel it growing and it only at that point that I allow my prayers to change. Heavenly Father, because I knew the desire was there.

Please help me to understand the Atonement and I could feel that prayer growing and working as I was a sincere, active missionary. It was around Christmas time in Ames, IA, which is a university town. Kale Sanderson was a wrestler there at Iowa State University at the time. My ex husband's from there. There was 4. Of us. Dude, it's it's. I love the people of Iowa and the corn. Oh, it was.

It was around Christmas time that that I simply went to bed a little bit earlier than the other three missionaries that were there in the apartment for no particular reason. And as I knelt down just to say my nightly prayer, as was my habit, I got carried away in a visionary experience. This is the first time I had ever experienced anything like

this. It enveloped my whole body and it enveloped my whole mind and I saw in high definition detail not only seeing but I, but I could feel things permeate my whole body. I witnessed a small portion of what the Saviour sacrificed on behalf of me personally.

What I saw in it, as I was in that visionary experience, was similar to a a very famous painting of Jesus at night next to the olive tree in Gethsemane and I could feel permeate my whole soul, the intensity of his love towards me personally. You probably can relate to the feeling of if you have a child, and they are, their life is dependent upon your pleading on their behalf, the kind of intensity and love that you

would have. I felt that on my behalf permeate my whole body and I heard specific words asking, pleading, saying I need you to live, I need you to live. And it was somebody who was pleading on my half on my behalf personally, and I don't think it was all that long of an experience, but it was one of those to where the space-time continuum became inconsequential during that moment. And when that visionary experience ended, I realized I

can testify differently. I could now say I know that the Atonement of Jesus Christ is real. I know that the Savior of Jesus Christ lives, and that he atone for me. And so those are like some of the foundational things that landed me on the rock of Christ at the level that I could handle. Then I'll Fast forward to where, like that level of enthusiasm that that I'm expressing. I've carried it with me always. 2018. Yeah, 2000, 2015, Leading up to 2000, 2015. I'm living in Albuquerque, NM

and I am so determined. Heavenly Father, how do I help my friends that have lost their testimonies not only of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but they've lost their testimony of God and of Jesus Christ and everything. And my prayer was Heavenly Father, How do I reach them? Well, I know the big issue is the history of the church, in particular what is attributed to Joseph Smith. And as I dug into that history, it got ugly, it got gross, it

got uglier and grosser. The history that's attributed to Joseph Smith, for example, there would be an interview on Mormon Stories to where here's the accusations made against Joseph Smith, Teenage girls, married women, things like that. Very salacious nature. How do you reconcile that? And when there would be an LDS apologist like Brian Hales doing

a response interview? Pretty much the only thing that would happen is they would confirm everything and try to put a spin on it. Yes, that's true, but we need to look at it this way. It was horrible and I did not know how to reconcile. I would recognize the Spirit to testify of certain truths when I was a missionary regarding Joseph Smith as a true witness of Jesus Christ in the Book of Mormon as a true record of Jesus Christ. How do I reconcile those truths with this behavior that I'm

learning about Joseph Smith? It was disgusting and it did not get better. It was the lowest spiritual point in my life. I did come to, I did come to the conclusion, all right, Heavenly Father, I feel like there's more that you're going to teach me and I should keep moving forward. And I did keep moving forward like I didn't feel any impression to leave the church,

even though this was awful. I continue to go out with the missionaries where I was as a as a young dad with kids still happen at these young missionaries that I love so much. 2019 I was the Elders Corn president of my ward in North Ogden where I the same place where I'm still at right now and the short version of it I had a friend challenge me. Why do you think Joseph Smith was a polygamist? And I thought it was a done deal. When I searched what the Church teaches now, patterns are

sticking out. 90% or more of all of the sources used to claim that Joseph Smith was a polygamist are from 30 years or more after his assassination, and they come almost exclusively from the polygamists who took over the church after Joseph Smith's assassination. And then, when I read for myself the teachings of Joseph Smith. Strict monogamy in all forms, strict public condemnation of polygamy in all forms, using his political office to prosecute those practicing polygamy.

Using his religious office to excommunicate and publish the names of any using polygamy, I came to a conclusion and the Spirit says, write down your reasoning. I wrote down a document. When I finished that, the Spirit says, kneel down and pray. I knelt down and I prayed about this and there ain't no fluff to this prayer.

Like I spent two days writing the document because the Spirit told me to and I kneel down and I say Heavenly Father, I've paid the price to put this information in my head. I've come to three conclusions. I don't believe Joseph Smith ever taught polygamy. I don't believe Joseph Smith ever practiced polygamy, and I believe doctrine and covenant Section 132 is fraudulently attributed to Joseph Smith. Have I discovered the truth? I ask this in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

And when I finished that prayer like it was 12 O 4:00 AM on on Sunday, January 12th, my wife was asleep on the bed back behind me. I was there at my desk with just one dimly lit desk lamp. I finished that prayer and I'm still knelt down by the chair and I felt a change in my body. This was the first time, first and only time that this specifically has happened to me. I felt an expanse of my body. It felt like it started at my arms and then it went over my my

entire body. And I'm thinking, what is going on? I knew that something was physically different. I'm not seeing angels in the room or anything like that, but I realized something's different and I did not want to offend whatever this experience was. And it's I talk into a microphone already. I've been doing a political podcast. I'm good with words. I know how to describe stuff.

Now I'm at a loss and at about two minutes into this where I didn't dare get up from my knees or do anything that might offend whatever this experience is, I'm trying to think, how would I describe what's going on right now? It felt like an intensity of peace. It felt like contradiction couldn't exist in my mind, even though nothing was happening yet.

And then at about two minutes in, I started to think about what I had been reading regarding Joseph Smith's teachings on marriage and monogamy, and it flooded into my mind quickly and gently. And here's how specific it felt. It felt like it was above my eyeball and below my eyebrow where the information would flow in. And the things that I've been studying. It now makes me think about when Jesus taught.

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father shall send in my name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to remembrance. That information that I had learned because the Spirit told me to, was now being brought to my mind and put in order and locked into place to where it was, Oh wow, the level of clarity. And this would go on for minutes in a row, where the information I would think about would flood into my mind and the Spirit

would lock it into place. I started to think about a different subject, the suspicious coming forth of Section 132, which claims to be Joseph Smith's revelation on polygamy. That had information flowed into my mind. Replace the other stuff and it would be available for me to contemplate in as much depth as I wanted, for as long as I wanted, for just minutes in a row. This process went on for more

than an hour. It's past 1:00 AM in the morning and I realize holy cow and I ask a quick prayer of my heart. Heavenly Father I I I I knew the implications to where regarding this. If Joseph Smith wasn't a polygamist, that means those who took over the church, they're serious implications about their honesty. Heavenly Father, am I supposed to testify this to my elders quorum because I was going to be in front of them in a few hours? And the Spirit says to me quickly and gently, Yes.

All right. The Spirit brings to my mind an image that I could see in this part of the peripheral of my mind. I saw myself dressed up in my 3 piece suit at church and I saw how much I valued being perceived as a leader in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I knew I was being shown that because Jacob that could permanently go away. Are you OK with that? I knew that's what I was being asked and I only thought about a moment. I read I'm OK with that.

The next day I testified to my Elder Score and that's a longer story in and of itself. I know how to run a good Elder. I'm sure that didn't go well. OK, so I love these men like I do. So it's probably about 40 plus men inside of the room, six former bishops, the high councilman's inside of there, a couple of others. There's a couple of lifelong employees of the Church Educational System and probably about a dozen or so young bucks that are my age or a little bit younger.

I teach them about keeping a journal of impressions, hearing the voice of the Lord. And then I ask in the last 15 minutes, why do you think Joseph Smith was a polygamist? I had a friend who challenged me on this, and I took them through the uncomfortable standard history according to the Church. Then I shared about what I had learned, and I shared about praying, and I shared about the answer, and I stood, and I testified with it with as much. I stood with as much gentleness

and openness as I could. But I I told them, I testify in the name of Jesus Christ, that Joseph Smith never taught polygamy, and I testify in the name of Jesus Christ that Joseph Smith never practiced polygamy. And I testify in the name of Jesus Christ. That Doctrine and Covenant, Section 132. He is fraudulently attributed to Joseph Smith, and I let it sit in the room for about 10 seconds as people are like grabbing their faces.

The high Councilman has his head buried in his hands and he's never spoken to me again since then. Oh boy. I'm open to the possibility that I'm in error. I would welcome correction from any of you fine brethren. I've already sent an e-mail to our state presidency so they can interview me and determine whether I'm worthy to continue as your eldest born president. Brother Silverio, will you give us our closing prayer here? Let me put the landing gear down because this is going to be

enough. I felt jubilant. I I knew that my Heavenly Father had asked me to do that, and I did it. I did it fearlessly, and I felt like I kept the right spirit with me as I did it. My wife was like, what'd you do? Oh yeah. The whole, the whole rest of the day, I'm jubilant like I I could, I could feel happiness in my heart that wanted to jump. The next morning my alarm clock goes off on my phone and I pop up no snooze button, which was not my habit.

And I say good morning Heavenly Father because it feels like he's standing there. And the spirit says kneel down. And I kneel down and the spirit says give things for this and I give things and a vibration starts in my heart and it goes out my whole body and it's like I can feel it out my arm hairs and my fingertips and my toenails and everything. And it says give thanks, now give thanks, now give thanks. And 0 things are originating from my own mind.

The spirits tell me like one right after the other what to give thanks for and then it transitions and the spirit says, now ask for this, now ask for this. And I'm being told my sins one after the other and how to plead forgiveness for them and it's it is now so permeated. And then the spirit says end in the name of Jesus Christ and I do and I stand up and I and and it's hard for me to share this without just being overloaded with emotion.

I I felt my whole love for God. I'd love God since I was a little boy. I felt that love get replaced by his love for me. It permeated everything. I felt such an intensity and such a power of love that the only thing that I wanted was it for was for it to reflect back to my maker. And then it and it stayed with me for four days in a row, guiding all my actions. I didn't know what a baptism of fire experience was because I'd

never had one like that. I had had other times where I where I felt being forgiven of my sins and I felt cleansed and I and I felt ready to keep moving forward. This was a whole different ball game and I've never been the same since then. I'm not so arrogant as to say, bam, everything regarding being born again. I've achieved that 'cause I don't feel like it's anything

I've achieved. I feel like it is a it is a pure, powerful, godly gift that I was allowed to have a a piece of. I recognize a small piece of what it's like when heaven touches you here on earth and and I long for my heavenly home as a result of experiencing that. So As for the principles of the church other than the polygamy, I know where you stand on that

for sure. But and and it's very similar to the RLDS like the Reformed Church, they also definitely believe that that's not something that Joseph Smith practiced. So I mean it's not completely out there for people that don't know the Mormon church. There's reorganized church and and they don't believe in in polygamy either. Many attribute that to Emma will never 100% know. But she did on her deathbed die saying that that he was not a polygamist and then she never

wavered. I always just call her a ride or die gal. I'll. I'll edit that for you. You know the word the but ride or die B, you know, 'cause like, I mean that's a girl that really loves her dude. If not, like if if it wasn't the truth, like whatever, she was still down. And I think Emma was that way in general. I think. I think she really did love Joseph and and there was a lot going on there, you know. But even that was with her son. She could have been more

transparent. I mean it was just her son. So I don't know. Let. Let me mention this I I think of the way that Brigham Young wanted to characterize Emma and Joseph. He would repeatedly, over and over again talk about how Joseph says she was the wickedest woman ever. That and she just wouldn't repent.

It becomes pretty obvious that if Brigham Young's characterization of Emma is accurate, she sounds like somebody who would have quite an incentive to throw Joseph under the bus posthumously when he's not there to cause any issue if she were to do that. So of course. At that point, he's gone. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, what's the point? But like at that, at that level, like with for you, like you gave up like you said a lot to leave the church in a different way

than I did, I left the church. I mean, let's face it, there's only three ways. I never heard of your way mostly I thought there was two ways. I thought you left the church and became like Christian somehow, some kind of something, or you completely give away everything and you don't want to believe in God at all, 'cause you feel duped, right? Like a lot of people go to that level and atheism.

And that's why I do this channel, because I would watch people fall away, fall away, not fall away into a better situation. It was like a a weird worse situation or Gnosticism or whatever. But it just it it was never great and I definitely wanted to get that out there. But I'd never heard of something like what what you're doing and. So it's happening a lot.

So I'll, I'll say this, I I was totally willing to be the Lord's lone soldier 'cause when I was an active travelling musician, that was easy to do. I I felt a connection with the heavens to the point to where I keep copy of the Book of Mormon in my backpack. And I would meet people at the bus station or other places. And I and I felt like my Heavenly Father knows my whereabouts and he can keep me

active in his work. When I testified of that, I thought, man, I'm just going to be the Lord's lone soldier, nobody else. I ended up publishing my experiences and find out that other people had similar experiences. Mine is probably the most dramatic that I've as far as like a a public testifying sort

of thing. But the Lord's been waking people up for years within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and the reoccurring theme is the warning in the Book of Mormon that secret combinations will be among you

striving to take power. You are commanded to wake up to your awful situation that's happening among If you're meeting Latter Day Saints who are all about following the Savior, rest assured the Lord's waking them up regarding the secret combinations that have taken over the corporate structure of the Church. So for you, for what you're doing, for you and your purposes, do you still believe in, like, the Word of Wisdom or like that?

You know, all of the things that people think of when they hear Mormon, we know we're not polygamy. That's the first thing they think of, right? The second thing they don't drink coffee like I mean. I would say that my focus has become very, very specific and structure. I'm going to share my screen if I can. Sure. Here we go. Let's go to present share screen. Oh, let's click this button. Boom. Did it? Is it going? Oh, oh, oh, you're going to be able to show it in a little bit. OK.

But in other words, here's this is a a reoccurring thing inside of the inside of the let's. See I'm going to push share screen but then it will have me share screen. Let's do. It do you see the screen that I'm seeking to share at the bottom? I know I don't. That's why I'm like, let me minimize and see. Here we go. There it is. So right now 35 Chapter 11, This is one of the most common chapters that Latter Day Saints missionaries share with people as they're teaching them.

Jesus Christ teaches His doctrine of it, and this is the doctrine of Christ. Some people call us the doctrine of Christ group and all they're saying there's no official organization. I'm not a leader of anything. What I do recognize is Jesus says, faith, repentance, water baptism, baptism of firing of the Holy Ghost, and then endure to the end as he nails that clearly as can be. In 3rd Nephi Chapter 11 he talks about how jealously he guards

this doctrine. Jesus says, Verily, verily, I say unto you, this faith, repentance, water, baptism, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, endure to the end. This is my doctrine, and I bear record of it from the Father. That whoso will believeth in me, and in the Father also unto him will the Father bear record of me, And he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost. That's an ordinance that takes place. That's the born again. Experience the fire and the Holy Ghost.

That's how we become born again. And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record of the Father unto him, of the Father and me. For the Father and I and the Holy Ghost are one. And again I say unto you, you must repent. OK, He hits on it, and I'm just going to move forward a little bit. But Jesus says, this is my doctrine. Who so buildeth upon this builds on my rock? And who so shall declare more or less than this?

Think about whether it's a whether it's saying the Word of Wisdom is a requirement for salvation, or these things that we do in the Temple are a requirement for salvation. Or these performances, or those performances whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine. The same cometh of evil and is not built upon my rock, built upon a sandy foundation and the gates of hell are open to

receive them. So, like, I find that to be a mandate to anybody who pretends to believe the Book of Mormon. If they're adding to or taken away from the doctrine that Jesus Christ just laid out there, they are idolaters and they are required to repent otherwise. Holy horse, Honky. I feel like saying bad words, holy, absolute bovine excrement that they believe the words of Jesus Christ. And here's why I'm so passionate about this. I love people so much.

And you've had a similar desire to where when people give up on faith and everything, when people give up on that, it's sad to see. And there's probably hundreds of thousands if not in the millions of young people who are now adults who at one point were feeling the Spirit testifying of

certain truths. But when the corporate Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints tries to attach this other bull crap and saying that's just as true as this other stuff, it causes people to have not only faith crisis, but to give up on God altogether and. Absolutely. The people trying to mix that bovine excrement with the doctrine of Christ, I want to punch them in their freaking face for their betrayal of Jesus

Christ in this gospel. So when and I I say this with all niceness, like I'm not trying to, you know, I know that you debate. I know you debate and I appreciate that you love a debate, but also I like to be respectful of everybody on my channel and I like to, even if I completely disagree with them, I don't like to, yeah. You and I like each other enough that we're allowed to. Do we do so in Ecclesiastes? There's multiple verses that talk about that dreams can be deceiving.

OK, so Ecclesiastes 34, seven or Ecclesiastes 57, either one. And these talk about, yes, these talk about whether or not you can trust your dreams. You know, we've got to remember that. And for me this is really important because when I left the the church, I found more myself studying the Bible and it and it brought forth many things for me that were confusing. So 34 seven is 1 and it says for dreams have deceived many and they have failed that put their

trust in them. So like to be careful, right? We have to we have to be careful and not only for your dream or I'm not just discounting this is more about Joseph. I didn't know you had a 34 seven. Let's see. I don't think there's A and so. Or did I write it down wrong maybe? Like, I totally agree. Maybe it's 3/4 through seven, but it's we can go to this other one, Ecclesiastes 5 seven. We can just go to that one. I I totally believe in that principle that you're sharing. Absolutely.

And not about your dream, because I didn't know about your dream. Actually, I was talking about just. You know, for me it wasn't, it wasn't a dream. It was like visions that I was having. Specifically, I I completely believe that that that visions and revelations can and do come from dark sources, probably more commonly than they come from divine sources. And So what? What would be my method for checking such things?

I would some of the things that I've come to understand regarding Satan and his minions who are quite active in a literal sense, trying to mirror the structure of heaven here on earth where they still claim power over this lost and fallen world, they I do recognize a certain amount of puffing people up with pride. Wow, you're so great and they generally lead to a perversion of the gospel whereby somebody themselves, you can become an ascended master.

That's what you're meant to do and there's there's a lot of the power is in you and where the pride is. In other words the humility is no longer there the same way that Jesus perfectly showed Father. If it be possible let this cup pass from me. But nevertheless, not my will. Thine be done Jesus, his will to the will of the Father in all things. If there's revelation we are receiving that doesn't have that same accompanying spirit of full submission to God, I be.

I highly suspect that it is a deceiving spirit. So, you know, when we spoke last, I kind of and I didn't know about your dream. I just knew about Joseph and the channelling that occurred with the Book of Mormon, and it was very similar to that of John D and And it's very occult in nature. And then you add in the treasure bag and the sigils and all the things that we kind of spoke

about last time and it's hard. It's actually impossible, Not hard for me. Impossible for me to believe that it's another addition to the Bible, right? Because it says we shouldn't. That first part regarding channelling what? What is it? What is it that you view as channelling as having produced the Book of Mormon? Well, he puts his head in the hat and they use a seer stone very similar to John D He used

Obsidian instead. But also the the little letters that they used and that they submitted to have be verified that the guy kept. They were actually very similar

to the Enochian alphabet. And you know the channeling that went on there, he would call out these symbols almost identical as Edward Kelly and John D and so and they're not the only ones but it makes you wonder where you know Joseph said he not only saw, you know, Moroni but his dead brother and like up to 24 different apparitions and or dead people. And then you start to wonder is this a diviner? Is this the truth? Is this you know, is this I believe he's he translated a book.

I do believe that he was channelled these words into his mind. I don't know about plates per SE, but I do believe he saw something. I'm not like those people that are like, oh, he was high on mushrooms and had a good trip. Have fun? I don't think so. The. Reality is is that the volume which which purports to be

translated from golden plates. It exists and it's it's been given to the worst enemies of Joseph Smith from the get go and and it's produced now for me. I've read the Book of Mormon dozens of times and I read from it rather regularly. The things that have, and I'm not trying to make this, let me argue with an anecdote. I'm just but but I think it is. It is distinct that well, why does somebody like myself or others who are having waking up type experiences?

Why does this connect with them so much? I recognize instead of just believing, maybe this is God intervening for you. But like the Bible says, we shouldn't have another book, even if an Angel comes down and hands it to you. Because some of the questions.

That I've learned from from you as well as others who are who are quite different, Evangelicals and Christians who are quite critical of the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints. There's plenty to be critical of my myself as well I'm I'm quite critical. I do not hear opposition to the teachings of the Book of Mormon.

And I would think that if the Book of Mormon came from a deceptive source, perhaps a similar source as John D, and I appreciate you give me a a a good foundational understanding of his history, then I would expect there to be some of this, some of this ascended master become your own God sort of thing mixed inside of there. Well, there was for a while. With the teachings with Kolob, we were all gonna get our own planet. Well, I would say this.

I would say that is something quite distinct and separate from the teachings of the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon has 500 plus pages to be examined and criticized and and evaluated. And the when there are criticisms of the teachings of Joseph Smith, I just don't find from Joseph Smith's greatest critics, prominent today, teachings of the Book of Mormon being criticized. I did. I never had a problem, honestly, with the polygamy part. I know that sounds horrible.

I have a problem with children being married off. I have a problem with people being married off against their will. I have a problem with a lot of things that have to do with that. That's more fundamentalist, as you well know. But as far as the polygamy part, everybody always hangs their big hat on it. And I always feel like that's not even the worst of our problems here.

We've got just other stuff. Let me just point to Joseph Smith. He's the one who produced this volume here, and it nails it big time. To where Jacob of the Book of Mormon. Again, this purports to be centuries before the coming of Christ. This is parallel to the time of Jeremiah in the Old Testament to where the people are starting to grow and Jacob hammers them on the subject of polygamy. So here's the teachings of the Book of Mormon on on polygamy.

But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord, this people begin to wax an iniquity they understand, not the Scriptures. They seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms because of the things which were written concerning David and Solomon. Solomon and David had many wives. It was abominable. I'm going to just paraphrase.

He absolutely clobbers the having more than one wife in any form, and even specifies you will not do like the people started to do again in Jerusalem. They got destroyed because of embracing polygamy again. Oh, absolutely. I feel like they were, they were tortured. I mean, King David said it was terrible idea. I think the people that choose to do that get their own punishment here on earth. Having that many wives. You must be crazy. Like their women are hard. Admit it, Jacob.

Yeah, I've, I've been married twice. Not at the same time though, but but in other words, the Book of Mormon stays true to this. In other words, this is I find the Book of Mormon to be strictly in harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ and his prophets. From the Old Testament, From the New Testament.

I That's one of the reasons that I consider the Book of Mormon to be scripture in the quite literal sense to where these were prophets of God. Similar to what we find in the Old Testament, sharing the word of the Lord as they obtained it through the same manner because they practice the same religion and it was on this continent anciently.

So on the part in Galatians 18 where it says, but even if an Angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed.

So I mean so or an addition. There's another one that I can find that says if anything brings it in addition to the Bible and the thing that I have a hard time with because I see a good spirit in you, Jacob. Like, I I know you're a man that goes for God. Like, I don't doubt that just because you believe in the Book of Mormon, but it makes me almost sad because that could all be used for the glory of God in the Bible. Like you have something that you you. I mean, you do you.

Like, I don't know. If you watch yourself, you're very charismatic and you, you know all of that. I know you're trying to go for God. Like, I get what you're doing. And I don't doubt that at all. I I don't. I think that. You are you open to the idea that there are branches of the House of Israel who have records outside of the Canon of the Bible? I believe in many extra canonical books like Jasher and Enoch and yeah, for sure.

In other words, if the Book of Mormon is what it purports to be, then it is the records of a branch of the House of Israel, and the same way that the Lord's covenant people will be restored to the lands of their inheritance in what's considered the Old World. The branch of the House of Israel has covenants regarding this continent that right now the Gentiles who have been blessed upon above all other nations, the Book of Mormon, specifies they are ripening in

iniquity and will be swept off, and that branch of the House of Israel that once inhabited this land will be restored. I find those covenants to be true and faithful and given from given from the same God of the Old Testament and the New Testament contained accurately in the Book of Mormon. But the old books like Jasher and that were in the Codex, right, Like and they they were taken out like they were interrupted. They weren't like added later.

You know what I'm saying? They were part of of the actual full books and and people decided, hey, we should take this out, 'cause we don't want to explain Genesis Six. I think that's what happened. No, but really, like, I think that they just wanted us not to have a full history, whereas this is a completely new book, you know, this is like not part

of the. Codec if if it was produced by Joseph. If it is a record that was invented in the 1830s, I am in complete agreement with you and and I I feel comfortable just referring to what the book of More imports to me because it's not my it's not my job in this conversation to say you need to believe the way that I do. But I do feel I need to clarify what it proportions to be so people can add that into the equation it claims to be.

At the time of Jeremiah in the Old Testament when Jeremiah exercised faith like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who were promised a land and posterity. Lehi was promised that and it happened here and God continued to give promises which were recorded in the scriptures anciently and they are once again crying from the dust. So in other words, if this was a new thing invented 1830 AD, you and I are agreement that it shouldn't be taken seriously or even paid attention to.

But if this is the ancient voices from the dust that God is keeping his covenants and getting people to wake up to his covenants pertaining to this land, it is completely pertinent. I recognize I I hopefully give off a a loving spirit of someone who loves God because I do and I have since and I have since I was a teenager and I had that

initial come to Jesus moment. I still find myself willing to have my world turns upside down if that's what it takes for me to follow God. In other words, I do pray regularly to have false traditions abused. I find the Book of Mormon to be true and faithful, and since that baptism of fire experience that I shared about, I never had a love or even a whole lot of understanding of the Old Testament other than like knowing the stories. Right, right. Of course.

The Old Testament has exploded. Like my enthusiasm and my excitement for the covenants that are continuing the Old Testament have have just grown exponentially because of what I've been through, and it helps me connect the Book of Mormon to those same covenants. I find the same God of promising his people throughout the Old and New Testament to be the same God speaking throughout the Book of Mormon. And I think that your testimony is unshakable. And that's why I bring these things up.

Like, we're we're friends. Like you said, past this, we're going to talk again. We already know. But yeah. And then I worry like because we have all these things that don't compiled together well, like Joseph Smith was the one that started all of the temple rituals six weeks after he became a Mason. And he's the one where that sits with, you know, and he's the one that, you know, Willard Chase's account and his affidavit in court and then the treasure digging and the folk magic and

the House of a BRAC. It gets heavy. Like these are more my problems than the polygamy. Like I get that it's important as well. And then if if we, you know, think of one more thing, Muhammad saw an Angel and you know, that became a religion too. And yeah, Crowley saw an alien, not an Angel, and that became a religion too. So we have to remember that these things can and are used regularly by deception, whether or not in this case we have no

idea yet. But I'm talking about like in those other cases, we absolutely know that Thalima is not from God. Like we know we are certain of that and there's no doubt in our minds. But that's why I bring up these things. Because if you if you have a true and honest testimony and and you don't believe in the temple rites, He's the one that well it. Like I find here's what has happened to me in in understanding that Joseph Smith was not the source of latter day St. polygamy.

It has caused me to really question, well is what is he the source of, especially the Masonic aspects of this the endowment that was introduced by Brigham Young. It included the oath of vengeance to where avenge the blood of Joseph Smith. How could Joseph Smith has have introduced such a thing? Brigham Young doesn't claim that God gave him the temple ordinance, he says. Joseph Smith came to me, envisioned and gave me these things that were introduced, the slitting of the throat and all

the other things. I find about as much historical integrity in the claims of Joseph Smith that being a Mason at all as the historical record shows that he was also a polygamist. I'm suspicious of it. You won't find anything from Joseph Smith himself.

There's going to be people after his death now and that's part of the reason to why I don't consider myself an advocate for Joseph Smith. I am an advocate for the Book of Mormon. If let's say that it were shown to me and I'm forced to like re evaluate things Joseph Smith and polygamy, well I think the scriptures are quite clear that polygamy is to be condemned especially when people are using David and Solomon as their justification.

But, but there's nothing, there's nothing from Joseph Smith that has anything but condemnation for polygamy. There's nothing from Joseph Smith that has any approval of Masonic elements. There are those who took over the church who says, oh, I think they recognize they lacked credibility in the eyes of those that they wanted to lead. So let's borrow upon the good credit in the name of Joseph

Smith as he introduced this. So yes, if Joseph Smith was the one who introduced Blood Atonement type doctrines, I'm not going to say that I understand it better than him. But I'm saying the way that I understand it right now, I have no problem condemning. I don't believe it.

Because I I know he was the one that on May 3rd, 1842, Joseph Smith prepared the second floor of his red brick store in Nauvoo to represent the interior temple, as circumstances would permit to give people their endowments. So. Let me give a recommendation for people following up. I claim specifically Michelle Brady Stone. I consider her a friend and a sister. She's got the podcast called 132 Problems on YouTube. She has multiple different parts

on the temple. I think it is part number 2 on the temple, the claims of the Utah LDS endowment coming from Joseph Smith. To say that the claims are weak is the understatement of the year. In other words. And she dived into in the episode that I'm thinking of 132 Problems YouTube. Michelle Brady Stone Temple Part 2. The Claims of the endowment being presented in the Red Brick

Storehouse are highly suspect. In fact, it's overwhelmingly pointed to those claims being dubious now because the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, they're considered authoritative on this history because, well, we were founded by Joseph Smith. I understand why it's treated as authoritative, because I treated it as authoritative my whole life, as soon as I get into the process of where's the original source. These people are absolutely full

of horse stuff. OK, so I I if I remember correctly, wasn't it his journal that they got this from? If I now that's off cuff. I don't believe the Red Brick Storehouse comes from his journal. I'll say this my friend Dustin Grady gave a really good presentation available on YouTube if you were to type in Dustin Grady Endowment. He gives a great breakdown of what we know regarding the endowment while Joseph Smith was alive from the teachings of Joseph Smith.

The short version of of that presentation is Joseph Smith was preparing the Latter Day Saints to receive an endowment of power similar to the one manifest in Acts Chapter 2 on the Day of Pentecost. That's the endowment of power to where God says here's power from heaven and it came in cloven tongues of fire and and fell upon those worthy and ready to

receive such a thing. There was recorded an amazing outpouring of the Spirit at the dedication of the Kirtland Temple among many of the Latter Day Saints, but they did not receive that full endowment of power the way that it's described in Acts Chapter 2. That's the endowment that was taught by Joseph Smith, not Masonic slitting of your throats

and keep a secret unto death. And so, even though it's noted that and and it has the dates, that he was indeed a free Mason, do. Do me a favour, click the button so it's no longer sharing my screen. Oh yes, that's OK. I thought we were still on it. I thought we were still maybe gonna. I didn't know. Click.

The button and go back again. Yes, whenever you need it, we can do that and I. I don't want it to sound like an excuse to where you can't trust the source of this, because there I have learned the hard way. Well, we can't trust a lot of things. And that is disheartening, like, but that's part of why. Like, when I get prayerful about it, I don't get the spirit telling me at all I need to be an advocate for Joseph Smith.

The closest that I get to it is like, hey, I got guided to examine the historical record and I at least learn for myself that Joseph Smith is not the author of LDS polygamy, of Utah, Mormon polygamy, and that's all about that. But even then, there's certain things about Joseph Smith that I don't feel any desire or even duty to stand up for.

The Kirtland Safety Society, that failed bank, There's no evidence that I can point to that God was directing him to do that, and it failed in such spectacular fashion. I don't believe that he himself was trying to get rich from it because he suffered greater financial loss than than he than he could have if he were trying to take advantage of others. But again, Joseph Smith doesn't save you or me. Neither do any of the apostles of the Scriptures.

It's only in as much as they point the true and accurate way to enter into covenant with God directly, then they should be taken seriously. I believe Joseph Smith is one of those who pointed to the doctrine of Christ by which we can be individually become the sons and daughters of Jesus Christ, and he presents us to the Father. And the only reason why I bring it up is because if indeed like the Bible says that if a prophet is wrong, actually he should be

put to death, right? Well, so so if he was wrong, like about the money or about the temple thing or about whatever it is, then it makes me go back to question. And that's why I have you on to pick your brain because I'm less, I don't care about being right. I just want to know things right. Like I just want to have discussions so that we can figure this out. Because even if we never do, like it's so great to try. You know, like, I mean that's all we can do. Yeah.

Yeah. And so I I always try to be so respectful and especially because I do like you and consider your friend, like I don't come at you like this to be like snarky or I'd listen to your. The reason why I I say this because I've watched some of the other stuff and they just pull you apart. Kinda. And I don't like it. I I'm not a fan. It's OK if you guys like it,

but. For I've got a personality that can handle it. In other words, I recognize that you're that you, that you don't want to tear me down. But I am. I am somebody to wear the model. I don't have any tattoos, but if I were to get one, it might very well say say the truth no matter what 'cause I if we view Jesus Christ as the truth, then it is the truth no matter what.

So I I highly value the sincere tearing down of whatever false traditions people can do it in a way to where it actually destroys people's foundation in a way that it never gets built up again. I am. I view myself quite regularly tearing down false traditions of others, but my Heavenly Father has guided me, so I'm no longer allowed to use the sledgehammer when tearing down false traditions. I get guided spiritually on how to use the framing hammer instead of the sledgehammer.

And so I I do. Try. It leaves less pieces, leaves less splinters. Less less, because there's there's ways of destroying falsehoods to where people are left with nothing to build with. Right. And and no matter what, I can see that you really do dedicate your life. You're really trying to to go somewhere with God and I can see and feel that from you. So I don't I don't have any thoughts to want to splinter you, right.

Like that's horrible. Let. Me say here's what I recognize is happening and this is part of why I don't get worried about people believing all the things that I believe right now. Because because of my personal recognition that the Book of Mormon is prophets of God. Having received and recorded covenants anciently that are

playing out today. That great feeling of freedom is inspiring men and women to wake up to dedicate themselves to God. And they did not participate in the mass mandates the the all the jibby jabby sort of crap when President the head of the of the church corporation he might as well be Klaus Schwab or Bill Gates his policies are their policies because President Nelson the skull of Bones alumni, President Nelson worships. The and Alan Key and Alan Key 2 Secret Societies.

In In other words, say this openly now. Cardin Ellis of Ward Radio used to be midnight Mormons, as well as Jacob Hansen, Brad Whitbeck, These millennial Latter Day Saints. The corporate Apologists, They will simultaneously be so enthusiastic. President Nelson is a prophet of God and they fold like cheap laundry. The moment you ask why are President Nelsons policies identical to Klaus Schwab, Bill Gates, and every other satanic globalist that we know of in the

world? It's because President Nelson worships the same God as Klaus Schwab. He shows you that in his policy. This is this is a repeated in the Book of Mormon. The words of Isaiah 29 to where the Lord's people, they They draw into me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, so there's no excuse for those Mormon millennials. That's why I'm really looking forward to wrestling Jacob Hanson. Just what? I'm going to be there, everybody. If I'm going to be there.

Me and my husband are coming. We are.

We are booked. Word. I feel like, 'cause I feel like I I feel like it is such utter horseshit for Jacob Hanson to to claim that President Nelson is a prophet of God while he becomes so in like, I'm gonna just put together a compilation clip and clip this by itself as he becomes so scared of him and to talk about what comes from Jesus Christ. It I I I want to say this as repeatedly as possible because for one thing, I care about Cardinalis and Brad Whitbeck. Jacob Hansen.

He's more annoying, but because I care about them. It's because he's another Jacob. They they need to continue to be absolutely ashamed of their cowardice in talking about whether President Nelson's policies come from Jesus Christ or not. They need to stop pretending that they belong to Jesus Christ Church if they cannot answer whether President Nelson follows Jesus Christ. Yeah, yeah. If they can't stand for that, I mean that it makes it hard to really honestly trust them.

I know that sounds kind of cruel in a way, but like when I speak to you, I don't think you're trying to mislead me or you're telling me how you feel about something that is affecting you your way and I can respect that. If they could do the same, then they should be able to raise their hand to the square Jacob to say that he is the one. If they are doing that, then that is. I would totally, totally support you if you were to say Jacob. How?

In other words, when you're bringing up different scriptures, I recognize you're giving a form of saying, how is this in harmony with the word of God? Like, if you you can and should hold me accountable.

If I'm teaching things that are clearly out of harmony with what Jesus Christ teaches, I not only respect that, I applaud it and I wish more people would do it. Corporate Latter Day Saints like Jacob Hansen and Carden Ellis, they do not want to talk about what Jesus. Christ, when I've watched them with you on a few things, it's more about like, being right. I don't really care if I never am right or you're never right. We're just talking about this because we've both been deceived

regardless, right? At the end of the day, we both feel the same way about the mainstream church and that is hello and that is very important, right? Like, I mean at the end of the day, like we have to say, OK, this is you. You stood up and and left a life that you know you didn't have to do that they. Actually didn't lead. They excommunicated me and I'm still. Like you knew, right? I mean, you. Dang, you knew. I'm still waiting to be excommunicated. I want to be excommunicated because.

You you want to come to church with me? Yeah, let's do it because you come and. Hang out with. Me. Right. I need to have that happen, because then I won't be married for time and all eternity to the guy that left me in the dust for his girlfriend. So that would be lovely. But that's no reason to do with why I'm not a Mormon. Like, people are fallible. Let's be honest. If you ever leave any kind of church because of a person that's on you, like that's that's not that's silly, you know?

Knock down my green screen, 'cause then you'll see all my food storage. I just see the kiddos. They're cute. I I have so many kids that it's always funny to me. So I'm like, yeah, that's fine. Usually when people have kids and I'm on, they'll they'll end up in in waving or something, 'cause I think they know I'm a mom. They're like, this lady seems like she knows where food is. No, just kidding.

Yeah, but that's. What's like you and I are probably in far more agreement regarding things that should be condemned in the corporate Church of Jesus Christ the Latter Day Saints and the reason I call it a corporation is because it is. That is how it is legally identified. And and the doctor. Let me share one from the doctor and covenants if you could share my screen absolutely. 11 more time No.

You're fine. Because it's quite clear, like what the gospel, what the Church of Jesus Christ actually is. I'm pretty sure it's 610. Come on, let's do this. Maybe it's 10/6. Oh, I'm getting. I'm getting my sections wrong. I'm pretty sure it's it's section 10 where it says what my church is. I'd see. This is why I need my. Hey, you're better than me. I always know what they say, but not where they are. I'm like, oh, that one

scripture. Stop sharing my screens so I don't make a so I don't make an answer for myself. In other word, the Doctrine Covenants teaches quite clear that those who repent and come unto the Lord and they're baptized. That's his church. And if anybody teaches more or less than that, they are not of Jesus Christ Church and so like so, my stake president. They're really cute. I'm sorry. Yeah, I know, we're supposed to be serious, but they're cute.

But see, they got a My wife is 6 feet tall from Peru. Oh, wow. It's yeah. So I got little brown babies. Oh, these these stinks feet. Is the. Wow, that's what I was. Saying here's the reason that I got excommunicated the stake president Cam Ryan when when I when I told him like, hey, here's what I learned regarding Joseph Smith not being a polygamist. He instantly says what would President Nelson say if he was here. He didn't care it like he like the same thing that I shared

with at the beginning. Here's people understood my background. He points to the picture of President Nelson on his wall but what he's saying like why would I care? What does he have to do with? This. Yeah, that's just the guy, like.

And his his position was if you and this is literally I'm paraphrasing his direct or M Ryan specifically says if you don't believe what's published on the church website, you're not following President Nelson. He zero times talked about Jesus Christ until he got embarrassed, like literally in the when they held the disciplinary council, he spent five freaking minutes talking about exaltation through the brethren. And because I don't believe that, it's like, dude.

What That's what the problem is. That's like what the That's the biggest focus point out of everything that happened. Like, literally my Bishop, Key Glenn and the state president, Cam Ryan. They don't ever talk to me. They I used to be the Golden Boy of the stake where Cam Ryan was playing videos of Pete George and assignments. Look what he's doing in the North Ogden 15th Ward, and it

turns into an apostate. Just because I'm required to believe in the doctrine of many wives and concubines. Otherwise President Nelson's going to frown on me in the afterlife. He's. Disappointed in you? You take that bull crap and shove it where the sun don't. Shine. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, and not only that, but I've noticed, like I'm very careful at my work or other places. Like if somebody finds out I have a podcast, they and they say, oh, I what's your podcast?

And I always say, well, hold on, Are you an active LDS member? Because I'm not trying. I'm not trying to hurt anyone. I'm not, I'm not trying to black pill somebody that's not ready. It's not nice, you know? And if they're ready, then they'll find us, right? Like they'll find you, They'll find me. They'll find a way. God will show them the way. But like, so this happened to me at work and I, I simply said to this guy, are you LDS?

And he said, well, yeah, And I said, I don't, I don't think out of respect for you, I don't think you would like it. But. But 'cause I'm an ex Mormon. And you know what? He said, Well, I would expect you to have more respect for me. And I said, what? It was such a weird conversation. I was like, what this guy to this day now, every time he sees me, like, just like with your church people, he will not make eye contact. He walks straight by me. He's so mean about it. All I did was ask.

He doesn't even know what my stuff is about, 'cause I didn't tell him the name. Can I can I give you a hand? Can I give you give you a help? OK, right. I was sick. Start praying. Start praying. Specifically, Heavenly Father, do you want me? Do you want my outreach to include active Latter Day Saints? And if you recognize the response from God being yes, then start praying. How do I do it?

Because, like when I have that baptism fire experience, I'm already enthusiastic to the point of being overbearing and obnoxious. Well, I wouldn't say that. It's pretty fun. I'm I'm much better now than I was. So in other words if you're outraged is to be the Latter Day Saints, here's how to get your mandate from the Lord and get instructed by him. I remember about six months after that experience, it's coming up summertime of 2020 and and I'm forcing conversations

every chance that I get. And I would say 19 times out of 20, it's people who never want to talk to me again. If there's social media, they'll block me. If it's in person, they'll avoid ever having contact with me. Oh my God, conversation of time. But but there would be about one time in 20 to where somebody would have a fire light in their own heart. They would call upon God for themselves and they would have experiences and their life would change. Dude, one in 20 is 5%.

That's pretty darn good. And so, so I'm prayerfully. So I've learned how to like, prayerfully present my heart and my mind to my Heavenly Father for correction. I remember praying, specifically Heavenly Father. I feel like I'm damaging a whole lot of relationships. If you want me to go about it this way, I'm totally willing to do it. Because one and 20. That ain't bad, right? It's still, it's still saving.

And that's the point. Like, I still feel like, I mean that's why it's so important for me on the occult end of this, like because we have to go for character, right? Like I'm, I'm like, OK, what about the House of a Brac stuff? What about this magical stuff? What about this? What about that? Because if it plays in or the Masonry, if it plays into it, then do we believe the book that was brought forth from this family? Yeah. In other words, is the Book of

Mormon a part of that? I don't find any connection to it other than being able to say, well, this is the history we're attributing to Joseph Smith. Let me I want to give you stuff so you can start reaching your latter to Saint. Because here's what happened to me as soon as I prayed, Is this

how I'm supposed to do it? My Heavenly Father, I could feel him telling me like chill out and listen to my voice the next time that it was a potential conversation that I normally would just force because I wanted to right? I I would either from that point forward I I describe it as the

red light or the green light. I would either recognize my Heavenly Father, give me the the normally saying something to the effect of don't worry, this one is not your responsibility and I would leave it alone and and just talk about mixed martial arts or whatever, whatever was fun to talk about. Yeah. But then there'd be the times where the Spirit would say, don't hold back and I have the

green light. And as soon as I paid attention to that, nine times out of 10, it is overwhelmingly positive and it and it causes somebody to reflect. Now what I point out to the Latter Day Saints every single time. Almost almost every single time. I'll ask, Hey, when's the last time you've read the book of Jeremiah and Latter Day Saints do not read the Old Testament. They check. They. Definitely do not, yeah. It's been a while and I I'd say can I give you the brief rundown?

Oh sure, because we're already having fun in the conversation. I've got a little bit of trust established and I would point out the book of Jeremiah is parallel to 1st Nephi chapter one. It's quite likely that Jeremiah is the prophet that Lehi heard in first Nephi chapter one. You have millions of the Lord's covenant people. The temple is in the heart of the nation, with sacrifices

going on day and night. The leaders in charge of the temple in the synagogues are the most powerful and respected people in the entire nation. They have a long history of prophets and of prophesying. They can give reasons for all of their religious observances. And yet, what's God about to do? He's going to have all of them destroyed, scattered or enslaved if they don't turn their hearts to God.

That's chapter one of the Book of Mormon because it represents the status of the Latter Day Saints today. And when I hit them that clearly and and they realized, like, because I, I very prayerfully asked Heavenly Father, how do I teach it in a way that it's too simple to misunderstand.

The covenant people of God in Jeremiah is like I'm singing in the choir and I'm going to the synagogue, Jeremiah And in Jeremiah chapter one, which is parallel to book of to 1st Nephi chapter one, the first chapter in the Book of Mormon, chapter one, he says, the Lord says all of my people have gone astray,

all of them. And then in chapter 2 the Lord says the people that you call prophets are prophesying but the child sacrificing power of Baal. That's Jeremiah 2 verse 8 and we are shown that because it represents the Lord's covenant people again today, outwardly they will say God this and God that's, Jesus this and Jesus that, while they are participating in the darkest of evil rituals that have been from the get go. And if we don't wake up to that

awful situation, if Latter Day Saints don't wake up to that, it's because they do not believe what is taught in the Book of Mormon. So, and that's part of why I get so passionate about it, is to hold Latter Day Saints accountable for turning their hearts to God rather than this absolute bull crap fake worship of the Brethren. Right. It is very not very patriarchal situation. I do believe Brigham Young brought that forth because I do not believe Joseph Smith was

like that. I do think he was more of an equalitist. He was, you know, not. Yeah he was. He brought women into if, if OK if. I don't know with for you. I don't know if you believe this. But if he was the one that introduced the Masonic rites, OK for the temple endowment, he's the first one to give him to women. He was equal across the board in my opinion. I mean, that's just one thing I can say. I know you don't.

I I know you believe that. I am not informed enough specifically on the Masonic history to have as to have a conclusion regarding Joseph. I But he was. If he did that, he was very equal. Yeah. I mean women I. Strongly suspect that the Masonic elements are attributed to Joseph Smith the same way that the polygamist elements are all right. Gotcha. And I mean, his wife, he everybody kind of knew that he was partial to her and she did have a say so in things like

everybody kind of knew that. And so I don't think he was some crazy patriarchal person like how Brigham Young was. I really don't. If you want to see Latter Day Saints squirm, just tell them. Will you read out loud all of Doctrine and Covenant Section 130. The one and only document in the world seems to be Joseph Smith

teaching polygamy in verse one. This is the principle and doctrine of many wives and concupines and and you start to ask, OK, so do you have a testimony that God authorizes one man to take wives away from one man and give them to another. Do you have a testimony that Jesus Christ is the author of that and it and it becomes obvious like even the even the the corporate apologist like a like a Brad Whitbeck and Cardin Ellis and and Jacob Hansen.

They don't need what is taught in the doctrine covenant section 132 and if they do they keep it a secret, especially from their wives. I've been see and that's that's been a sad thing to learn regarding men of the church in general. Oh we know that this is true but clearly we can't say it out loud. No if it's from God you can say it out loud unless you're given instructions otherwise. But generally this sort of like secretism regarding doctrines that's how Satan works.

You keep it secret into the nation, then you rule with an iron fist. Right. And I do think that dynamic changed a lot when Brigham took over the church. I mean you can clearly see it and and the Reformed Church, the the RLDS like the reorganized one, I mean, I don't think it's even close to the same as far as the oppression and how long it took to kind of make things more equal in that church as it did for the mainstream, right.

Like, I mean they were able to go forward a lot quicker because they didn't have that weird iron fist business going on like you're mentioning and Brigham was the king of that. They don't call him bloody Brigham for nothing. I mean, he's a situation, you know, as. I try to put things together. I recognize the men of God who have legitimate experiences with him. They waste and wear out their lives teaching other people how

to do the same for themselves. Yeah, well, and here's one little nod to your polygamy part. For Brigham, he was supposed to go forth and replenish the earth and have all these children with these women. But he failed miserably. Less than one kid per wife. Less than. Like, I'm triple, triple the the Replenisher that Brigham was. Right. And that's not normal, like why he's a A1 and done like

obviously. Even think about this the the whether it's the closeted LDS polygamist of today or whether it's the actual practicing fundamentalist polygamist. That method is the animalistic base nature throughout the mammal Kingdom. It is that small group of alpha males who will be the only ones in charge of reproduction at the expense of any others who aren't as strong. That's the system that Brigham Young was setting up, but the system from the get go where Adam and Eve are placed in the

garden. It was them Twain cleaving unto one another having nobody else. It was repeated in Doctrine and Covenant, Section 42, verse 10 to where cleave unto your wife singular and none else. Because like as a man it I've known since I was a teenager and probably even before that. Like how attractive ladies are and the the the base nature of just there's no way around it. Primal. Yeah, primally. Men are visually stimulated. We're built that way, and it's nothing to be ashamed of.

But we have to. We have to remember God requires us to be disciplined. We are not part of the animal Kingdom. If we are to be sons and daughters of God, we learn how to discipline ourselves and hold it in the right order. Be and be. I've had to learn to just be completely forthright with my maker regarding my natural shortcomings, and I recognize he doesn't condemn before. Like he knows the way that I was

built. Nope. Quick anecdote When I was the young men's leader of the teenagers in Albuquerque, NM, years ago, talking to these young teenagers who are who are in the first few years of hormones exploding and and spontaneous erections and things like that, I would talk to them quite openly. It's it's and I and I knew how to put at a level that they would understand that would be appropriate. Where I'd say, hey, have you guys ever seen a male dog?

When he gets a whiff of a female dog who's in heat, who's about to reproduce, he's like, yeah, does he have any control over his brain going wild? I recognize. No. It's like you guys are built with similar sort of responses. You're not to be ashamed of that. But are you dogs? And. And so we understand.

And I would and and I could tell there was so much relief that they don't have to be ashamed how their body naturally functions but also felt like a sense of confidence in yeah, learning how to discipline, learning how to control it. That's why I I don't have any sympathy for those who promote Brigham Young's animalistic tendencies. Yeah. Yeah, it was. I I definitely believe it went off the rails regardless of what happened before that. It went way far off the rails at

that point. And then, you know, it just kept going. I mean, of course it did money wise and everything. I mean, a lot of people joke with me when I talk with them about Mormonism and they're like, it's like the mob. And I'm like, you're not wrong. I mean. I've got a couple of friends who

are contractors. One of them's an older dude, one of them's somewhat younger and they have the kind of projects that they take on from time to time is $490,000 to put a below ground basketball court in a general authority's home because what else is he going to do? What happens over and over again is in their general authority's so-called ministry duties on

behalf of the corporation. Oh, you know that this temple is going to go in or these projects are going to happen and they build shell companies and give the contracts to themselves or those or those who are associated with them so that they become rich and richer and richer through their cult, so-called building up the Kingdom of God. In other words, it becomes the back door deals by which they

enrich themselves. I would if if people can't visit in person, at least go to Google Maps right now, look up the Draper UT Temple and just scroll through the streets surrounding that temple. It is all luxurious millionaire mansions. And as you go into some of these coves, you see the palatial mansions that surround the temple again and again in Utah and in other places. It'll be we know that this luxurious building, this temple

is going to be built. So they buy up all the properties around it and enrich themselves. That's the Kingdom that they serve and it's it ain't going to last much longer. No, I I definitely think that there's been an awakening as far as the mainstream LDS church goes. I do see that, and I I always hope for people to come to God, you know, just read the Bible like you said, Talk to God, pray, you know, get real with it. Like get on your knees, you know? I don't know.

LDS people in general don't like to talk about the gospel. They just like to repeat certain things. They should ask their bishops, Hey Bishop, can I obtain a saving relationship of with Jesus Christ outside of the church and the bishops if it. If they realize that they're going to be held accountable for the answer they will never say yes. In other words salvation does not exist on a personal level and that was my my stake

president. He was with his counselor Mark Mahlen as they were about to call me in for a disciplinary council. This is like their pre interview to see if it was needed when I just asked like. Can I obtain a saving relationship with Jesus Christ if I don't believe President Nelson is a prophet, 'cause they kept just pointing to President Nelson 0 Jesus. No, you cannot. And I turned to his counselor. Is that is that true? And yes, it's true You cannot.

And they they are literally double down in testimony representing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints above my stake, saying I cannot be saved by Jesus Christ unless I have the proper opinion of President Nelson. That is the exclusive reason they called a disciplinary council is because they couldn't get me to. Oh, President Nelson, please save me.

Right. And then the fact is, is I I mean, yes, he may be the president of that church, but that doesn't mean just like the Pope of the other church, just like many other leaders, the absolute power corrupts absolutely. And there's never been a time or a place that that doesn't occur. It is just how things are. I mean, I wished it wasn't, you know, but so far it's 100% usually, you know, it's pretty good odds it will, it will corrupt and so. I'm looking for it right now.

Let's see in second Nephi Chapter 9 where Jacob the the younger brother of Nephi. He's given his talk to the people regarding the Kingdom of God and he points out. Do you want me to add it? Yeah, add it. I'm fine. With that, there we go. Specifically, But in other words, This is why I love the teachings of the Book of Mormon. There we go, verse 41. Oh then my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous.

Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him. And the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel, Jesus Christ, and he employeth no servant there. And there was another another way, save it be by the gate. And he cannot be deceived. For the Lord God is his name. In other words, there ain't no President Nelson or Saint Peter or anybody else that's standing there at the gate. It is exclusively Jesus Christ.

And have we learned in this life to hear and follow his voice? President Nelson cannot follow him. For me, it has to be me personally and again, like Cam Ryan, like he he is so my stake president. I've never met a more insecure man when it comes to discussing the teachings of Jesus Christ because his God is President Nelson, that's the only one that he would point to. He has never once talked to me about Jesus Christ or the teachings of Jesus Christ zero times.

Same with my Bishop, Pete, Glen. That's That's unfortunate, because that's the whole problem with Mormonism in general. And see and and I'm hoping that people can identify. It's because the corporation known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints institutionally rejects the teachings of the Book of Mormon. Latter Day Saints who believe and who know what the Book of Mormon teaches and embrace it, They follow Jesus Christ exclusively.

They exercise faith that Jesus Christ alone is the only way for salvation, but but instead, yeah, they abandoned that. There's no man, yeah, There's no man between you and God there, where there should be and whether you're a woman or not.

But I I feel confident teaching the doctrine of Jesus Christ from the scriptures, the Old Testament, and the New Testament. It's there, but I feel like it is the clearest on how to give God our broken heart and contrite spirit and be baptized by fire and by the Holy Ghost. I find those teachings to be the clearest in the Book of Mormon. And I think that as long as people recognize, like the power of any religion, we're not just going to say Mormonism.

It could be any religion that's high up, big, fat, powerful, wealthy. Just you don't have to look far. I mean, they get into some weird things. It gets ritualistic. It gets all about money. It gets to be political, yeah. When you start lining up with the World Economic Forum, like we've got problems, you know. You see the new Director of Communications for the for the LDS Corporation, it's a it is a a recent World Economic Forum alumni. Wow. And and why does that not surprise me?

Because because satanic people like President Nelson, Skull and Bones, Owl and Key, they recruit from among their own ranks, President Nelson and the new communications director. They serve the same God as Klaus Schwab, Bill Gates, and the rest of them. Yeah, no, that's not, that's not what we're supposed to be doing. Like, that's not that's not going to align with God's plan for anyone.

I'm pretty certain. To eat the bugs is not what God really wanted us to do. Out loud when I say those things, hoping that my that my corporate Mormon friends want to talk to me about. I know that they won't want to, but they realize it is indefensible to claim that President Nelson is a prophet of God while squirming and hiding at at the idea. OK, Do you trust other members of Skull and Bones, in other words? In other words, they are guaranteed.

This is another thing that's just so clear in the Book of Mormon. If you build your foundation on those, it's guaranteed to collapse. Yeah, it's definitely not not the path you want to take you you're. I mean, regardless of what path you do take, I don't think that's the one. Like, let's be realistic here. God didn't put us here to do what? Serve others. And you know, we're supposed to be serving for real, not not being under a foot, having our back being stomped on.

It's supposed to be a service like help helping up, right? We're supposed to help each other up, not stomp each other down. That's that blows my mind. But not, not so much with the Mormon church. But they're not hiding a lot anymore. They've kind of gone away from that and it's weird to me. I think they've made the they have officially made the deals by which they plan to enter this new age of humanity. So they they care very little about what they may have

proclaimed as truth in the past. Wow. Yeah, that's actually scary. With the power that they do have and the knowledge and different items that they own because of the fact that they're so involved in genealogy and, you know, people's family bloodlines, it just really makes you wonder what they're up to. I don't. I don't think it's good. For those who are wondering what they're up to, I will recommend first Nephi chapters 11 through 14. Yeah, it's not good.

I don't think so. So with that I I think this was a good talk. I I was really happy that you came on and I wanted to be respectful of you and actually get your story. You could have been far more cantankerous, and I would have loved you all the more for it. I. Know I I actually appreciate where you're coming from because at the end of the day our enemy is very similar, right, We're we're all against the Cabal, so. We'll get a hangout in the same FEMA camp.

Right, Maybe. Well, I know we might get a hangout soon. Where's that going to be again? April 6th? It's. Going to be April 6th, powerhouse MMA. Find me on Facebook. Facebook. I'm going to be putting the link up a very soon so you can buy tickets. There's going to be food, There's even going to be like scriptorian contest. So if you feel like you're a beefcake and and your scriptural knowledge, there's going to be some of that.

But get on out there powerhouse MMA April 6th, look me up on Facebook and I'll send you all the info. But yes, you show up and you can decide which of Jacob Hansen's limbs I will bring home with me. Ouch. I feel bad for him. Well, we will be there and let them know one more time where they can find you without limbs, without Jacob. 'S limbs on YouTube look up disciple of Christ or on Facebook, just type in Jacob Isbell, Capital B in Isbell and and I will.

And if you send me a friend request, I will be messaging you saying I can be forgetful. To what do I owe the pleasure of your friend request? And he will probably accept it because he's a very nice guy, so you'll want to follow him for all this fun stuff. And we. I mean, who wants to miss a fight? Who wants to miss that? Not me. Participate in one. Well, I got your back.

You can tap me out if you're. When people ask what would Jesus do, Just realize overthrowing the tables of the money changers and violently kicking out the religious Snooty that is among the realm of possibilities. I completely support Jesus's method in getting the the evil money men driven out with violence. And there it is folks. Jacob Isabel. And he's what you call a new MO. Find his channel For more information and I'll be dropping the links below in the show notes as well.

Thank you so much and have a blessed night. Blessed. Blessed. See, That was fun, wasn't it?