BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. It is a dark, cold night creeping ever closer to the witching hour. If you are here with me now, you have hopefully watched case three of the new TV series of Uncanny, Shadow Man. If you haven't, go and watch it quickly now on BBC iPlayer. if you dare. This was one of the scariest episodes of Uncanny yet. It is the story of Julian and his multiple encounters over many years with a tall...
dark figure with no face. Now Julian tragically lost his father when he was a young child and his mother when he was in his early 20s and so the immediate assumption is that this could be linked somehow to his grief but so many other people. see the figure too in so many different places around the village of Crofton where he lived and there is other phenomena too he hears heavy breathing from something unseen which horribly reminds him of his mother's breathing before she passed this is also
heard by his friend Martin. And a cabinet in Julian's house seems to unlock itself every single night at the same time his mother died. He comes to feel that whatever it is in the house... is taunting him. So how do we explain all of this? Do you have questions, theories and need to get together and take a moment to say what the hell just happened in this case? This is our chance. We will be hearing more from Julian, more from...
I'm Kieran and Evelyn, and we also have a special celebrity guest expert for our deep dive into this unsettling, chilling case. So come on in, because I'm Danny Robbins, and this is Uncanny Postmortem. Thank you. Blimey, here we are, episode three of Uncanny Postmortem, and what a case we have to talk about. If your heart...
are still racing after hearing Julian's experiences, then do not worry. Holding your hands and mopping your brows is our celebrity guest expert, writer, actor, comedian, star of The Change and Ghosts, Bridget Christie. Hi. How are you? Very well, thank you. Very excited to be here. You are a fan of Uncanny Affair. I am a huge fan. I just burnt through every single episode very quickly and The Witch Farm and The Batsy Poltergeist and yeah, I think it's fantastic.
Crucially, where do you stand? Are you team believer or team sceptic? Sceptic. Okay. But I have seen and heard things my entire life from four until last week. So are you a sceptic who teeters on the edge of possibly believing them? I believe that I've seen and heard what I have, but I don't believe that they are ghosts. I want to know more. Tell me what you've seen. You know...
disembodied hands, men riding through windows on a horse towards me, people levitating, voices, all sorts of things. But I just, I don't trust myself. Disembodied hands. Okay, I woke up, there was a hand here cut off at the wrist. So when was this then? When I was four. But I mean, it's just, you know, I have a very vivid imagination.
I think as well at that time, my parents are Irish and we had ghost stories, but there are things that are very, very hard to explain, but I still put them down to coincidence and contagion or... electrical faults. I will tell you something that happened to me on tour. I'd done my show in Taunton and we were late coming down and I went to this family-run B&B. And I got there and sat down on my bed, and here, right in my ear, I heard this. Like that, as loud as I've just done it.
right in my ear and I jumped off at the bed and I actually thought, I was like, okay, I've just done my show. Maybe they were at the show. Maybe it was a ghost that had gone to see my show and didn't like it. And now I was staying in a house. But I heard that. Let's talk about what Julian saw, Shadow Man. This was an intense episode. It was intense. It was disturbing and intense. My heart really went out to him. What frightened you most? When...
They were having an evening with friends and they looked out and they saw the figure run. I didn't like that. I think that was frightening for me because I imagined it scurrying away and I don't know why it would scurry away when it was usually just... appearing in the corners of rooms and things. You're right, we expect ghosts to shuffle creepily, to move slowly, but actually something moving at pace feels far more threatening, doesn't it? Yeah, I didn't like that.
All right, we're going to be getting your opinions throughout the show, Bridget. We've got some really interesting new evidence to look at. But first, let us meet the person at the heart of this case, Julian himself. Let's just remind ourselves of what he went through. I have met a lot of people who believe that they might have experienced something paranormal. I don't think I've ever met anybody who's been so affected by it. It changed me as a person.
And I'm still cautious. Every single day, this comes into my mind. Every single day. How many people have you told about this in 70 years? The full story? Nobody. Why not? Because I'm scared of it coming back. Julian, everybody will have been living that with you and they'll all want to know, how are you after that? Strangely, I feel better. Talk me through why you wrote to me. It was almost out of desperation and frustration of just having this inside.
And the email was sent literally just to purge this. I never expected a response. I didn't have any even concept that this would actually be of interest. We heard Kieran talk about grief and how it can be this powerful, overwhelming thing, and it can even make us hallucinate at times. Have you...
questioned whether this could be your imagination. By that point, I'd lost all four of my grandparents, my dad, my mum, a couple of friends as well. I knew the feelings of grief. I was very... used to all of these emotions and yes I did consider that maybe I've completely lost my mind here and I need help but then when multiple other people who hadn't been actually told
any of the details, started to experience it. I was actually happy. It's a strange thing to say that, isn't it? Yeah. It's that incredible vindication that you're not going mad, you're not imagining this. But the flip side... is that it means that it's potentially real, and that in itself is bloody terrifying, isn't it? It's possibly even worse than it all coming from me.
All right, really interesting. And as ever, Postmortem is not just about talking about the things that we have seen and heard in the episode. It's also about the things we haven't seen and heard, the new evidence as well. Julian, I want to talk to you about some of the other times that you saw. The Shadow Man. We heard you talk about it at the graveyard and also in the garden, but that was the tip of the iceberg. Yeah. One of the weirdest ones was at the junior school.
And this happened, I believe it would have been July, August. It was summer. It was... completely light outside. And this is where Stuart was present, the friend that we heard talking in the programme on Zoom. He was with you this time. Stuart and another friend, yeah. I didn't actually see it this time. It was stood directly behind me. And they were frightened.
Yeah. And so this is actually an instance where you didn't see it yourself. It was standing directly behind you and they saw it. I had no idea what they were talking about. Tell us about the one at your friend's house. Actually, this is maybe the weirdest one. So there's a group of us... Five, six, maybe seven of us at a friend's house. His parents were away. And we'd gone into his bedroom at the back of the bungalow, just messing around with his bass and his guitar and whatever.
And we were coming back into the front room and the lights were off. And as we went to flick the light switch, there was a very tall man sat in the chair facing us. And this is just sitting in your mate's house whilst you've been milling about having an evening? Literally, like, sat like that. But not a shadow. It was completely jet black. The weird thing is, we flicked the light on in panic of, like, who is that?
My first thought was, oh, his dad's come home early, we're in serious trouble here. And it wasn't there. We also heard about your aunt Blanche seeing it at the hospice, just as your mum was about to pass away. Yeah. What we didn't talk about there is that you saw it too at that point. Unfortunately, yes. So she basically told me that she doesn't like the guest bedroom upstairs. And...
It feels weird, it's uncomfortable, and there's, like, shadows moving. And I literally didn't pay any attention. You know, my mum's just died. I'm in complete shock. I don't know what the hell's going on. So I'm just like, okay, that's whatever. I was actually kind of a bit annoyed with her, to be honest. Like, why are you talking about this? I'm not interested. And then she...
A taxi was about to come to pick her up to take her to a hotel because she wasn't going to stay there anymore. And she refused to go up to the room. She sent me up. And again, I'm kind of slightly annoyed. I don't really want to do this. I've got other things on my mind, but... Okay, I'll go and do it. And got up to the room, and I don't even know how to describe it. It felt really weird. Like, you should not be in this room.
Grabbed her bags really quickly and started to come down the staircase and I just felt there's something behind me. And I looked and I couldn't see anything. It's a very dark corridor. It was just the emergency lights that were on. So I ran down the stairs. And then at that point, I could just sense something was coming down the stairs. So I ran down the long, straight corridor.
And I got about halfway down, turned around and looked, and yeah, this black shadow, I saw it come down the wooden stairs. You saw it following you? It started to come down the corridor. And I freaked out. I ran so fast that I came through the double doors where everyone was waiting and literally, like, flew into people.
Another aspect of this case, I know so many people will have found just deeply unsettling, is that breathing. We heard Martin talk about the night that he heard it too, but he was not the only one. No.
And this was really the start of things in the house starting to sort of spiral out of control. But my female friend was staying over to... support me basically it was the night before the funeral and she was quite close with my mum now she was originally staying on the sofa downstairs after about 20 minutes she came upstairs saying Like, I'm not sleeping down there. It's like, fine, like, you know, get into my bed, like, whatever. And I initially thought that she was asleep and snoring.
And then she nudged me and was like, what is that? It was literally right in between our heads. I don't know how else to describe it. It was like a sort of throaty wheezing, like... But you're hearing this as if this thing is between the two of you. It was. It was right between us. Bridget, we talked last episode about the idea of hearing voices in the charity shop case. There's something almost...
more unsettling about hearing, breathing. I think that feels almost more frightening. Yeah. It's very difficult, this case, to kind of explain things away. I often think that things are memories. of things that we've heard before and then they kind of get misplaced. Well, that is a really interesting point in this case because you said that this breathing felt like the sound of your mum's breathing towards the end. It was almost identical to...
That sort of last 24 hours that she was alive, that as the body's shutting down. I have heard things outside of my head, right next to my face. multiple times, voices, whatever. I think that's me remembering sounds and voices. I agree with that, but my friend was not present at all at the hospice. And I really hadn't, really up until we started filming this, hadn't spoken about the breathing because it was so personal. You told me about an incident where the police came out to the house. Yeah.
tell me about that so i'd just had enough at one point it must have been midnight one o'clock in the morning and i just got in the car forgot to even lock the front door and i drove from wakefield to scarborough what was in scarborough just not my house and that was the first place i thought of i could you know sit by the sea and just you know it's far enough away
Came back to the house at about 4 or 5 a.m. It was late and was greeted by a police sergeant and a PC stood outside. And what had happened is someone had... called the house repeatedly i hadn't answered they'd come around okay the lights are on like what is going on here they panicked the phone the police they came out just to make sure everything's okay and they've been there for about two hours
So they told me off a bit and I explained the situation. Everything's fine, I just drove to Scarborough at one o'clock in the morning. The police sergeant then took me to one side and said... After about ten minutes we had to leave your house. There's something very badly wrong with it. What had they heard or seen? That's literally all he said. No exaggeration, I actually tried to hug him. I was that happy.
OK, I want to talk about another piece of new evidence now. We heard from Julian's friend Martin in the programme. We also heard briefly from his friend Stuart as well on the Zoom, somebody else who had seen The Shadow Man. But we actually met up...
with both Martin and Stuart when we went to Crofton. Stuart said something during that encounter that I know pretty much knocked you for six. It was something that he'd not said to you before. Just have a listen first to what Stuart said and then we'll talk about it. Are you getting reports from your friends saying that they have seen this figure around the village? Yeah. We explained the shape, the style, the stance of the figure we saw, and Julian's mum, Len, said that sounds like his dad.
how we explained it and how we were stud. I've never heard that before. Hold on, because this feels like a massive thing. I was talking to Julian's mom in the kitchen. I even did the stance of how it stood, and she explained that it sounds like the stance of his dad. And you've never had that conversation before? No, I didn't know about it. all this either so I didn't you know so it's a lot of new things coming to light. Bloody hell. How did you feel about what Stuart said?
Initially, I was a little bit insulted and shocked, but thinking about it, I do feel there is some connection there. How do you mean? I don't think it is my dad. I don't think I was being haunted by my dad. Plus he was very short. But since we filmed that I've been in communication with... One of my dad's relatives in New York. And I wasn't really aware of this at all. But before I was born, my dad would regularly have drinks.
and then mess about with the Ouija board for hours and other occult practices. And you feel that he made contact with something? Something went wrong to the point of, in panic, you... ran across the road to the Catholic Church and got one of the priests to come in to help with what had just happened in the house.
This is a story where mystery piles upon mystery. Much more to come from Julian and Bridget, including some big new revelations. But it is time to check in with the two people that we look to to try and navigate the good ship. uncanny through the turbulent waters of the unknown it is our experts
I am with writer and parapsychologist Evelyn Hollow and psychologist and sceptic-in-chief Dr Kieran O'Keefe. Kieran, I'm going to come to you first. You like to use that term head-scratcher about our cases. This goes beyond a bit of scratching. It does. And I guess the theme for me that makes it real head-scratching is throughout the case, we've got this gang of children. It's almost like a Stranger Things episode where they're kind of spread all over the village and people are...
fighting this Shadow Man. And even though the focus is on Julian, and even though I attempt to explain it in the episode, it is a head-scratching moment because we've got so many people seeing this thing. We touched on it briefly, but there are certain things that exist out there on the internet. like Hat Man and Slender Man, these things that have become memes, these figures people claim to see in their bedroom. And this does to some degree play into that territory.
It does. So normally it's associated with sleep paralysis and you know people lying in bed they feel locked in and when they open their eyes they can see a figure or shadow in the corner of the room. Now most of the time it's just yeah it's that. It's shadows, it's shapes and we map. that being a person onto it you know we're always looking for patterns our brain is wired for danger
But in this case, it happens in the daytime. It happens outside. It happens when he's not asleep. It's seen by multiple people who are all awake and wandering around and things like that. So it's not sleep paralysis. So what is it? But, Kieran, there are potentially deeply rooted psychological reasons why we as humans see these figures.
Yeah, absolutely. If you think about evolutionary psychology, it helps us understand how our brain reacts when we experience fear. Effectively, our brains are hurriedly looking for a reason why we're scared. And so therefore, if we're looking in a dark corner or it's low level light, what is our brain doing? It's going, why do I suddenly feel scared? And it interprets it almost kind of. turns a shadow into a thing that's scary, which is a shadow man. And I think that's what's happening here.
One detail that got almost overlooked in the main show, but I think is important, is that cabinet in the corner of the room that seems to open itself at 2.11 each night. How do we unpack that? We've worked on several cases where something has consistently happened at the same time and we always look for an explanation whether that is an environmental one or a supernatural one and we talk about things like the witching hour and all these concepts from historical folklore.
the significance of numbers and every single culture has a different significant number that attributes either to something positive or negative but that isn't what's happening here for Julian it's personal and that the time that this really unexplainable and strange
that he's actively fighting, that he's actively trying to stop. He's being logical. He thinks it's a broken cabinet. He's trying to fix it. It's always happening at the same time when his mum died. So how can that not be personal for Julian? How can that not have significance for him? Kieran, why would a cabinet unlock itself at 2.11 every night? I think we need to go back a step and think about the cabinet first.
So why would the cabinet be opening? Yes, it could be a dodgy cabinet, but it could still be that. It could be earthquakes or earth tremors or vibration. You know, there could be any... Earthquakes in Crofton near Wakefield? Yes, absolutely. We can look back and know that in that particular area, in that county, there are examples of earthquakes.
But also it doesn't have to be that. That's one possible explanation. Another one could be vibration. There could be vibration from other courses. Even... Heavy traffic, for example, going by can cause vibration. All I'm throwing in there is a little bit of doubt, but... No, this is 2.11 in the morning. How much heavy traffic is there at that point? And also, if it is an earth tremor, is that really happening every single night?
You're absolutely right. And that is the most fascinating aspect of it. All I'm trying to do is explain why the cabinet might open. But the time makes it really intriguing. Really fascinating. If it is repeatedly happening at 2-11, that is amazing. And the fact that it's synchronistic with his mum's death at 2-11 is amazing. But are we seeing a scenario where he's remembering the hits and forgetting?
the missus. It happens at a particular time around two o'clock. There's the significance. If it doesn't happen at two o'clock, he forgets that it happened because it's no longer significant for him. And we see that a lot in paranormal circles and skeptics use it a lot. lot. We remember the hits and those are significant. We forget the misses.
Can we talk about the radio that plays itself? It feels almost comic on one level. It kind of feels silly, and yet it's a frightening idea, this object that is so familiar to you that you use every single day sitting in your kitchen. behaving in an impossible way um how can the radio play itself it is a genuinely odd moment but
There are other cases I've heard stories of similar sort of things happening. For example, Lucille Ball, Hollywood actress, she recounts a story where she had some dental work done. And she started to hear radio broadcast coming through her metal fillings. Now that's incredibly odd. But the metal fillings don't have batteries. They're not plugged in. So how is that happening? So there are accounts of similar sort of things happening, so we can explain it. Just finally...
The breathing, it's one of the most sinister moments in the show. We've just heard some new evidence from Julian about how it wasn't just him and Martin that heard the breathing. You introduced us to a concept, I'm going to have to remind myself of this, patulous eustachian tube syndrome. definitely the name of my next band are you actually suggesting that julian's print had that too
Well, it's possible. You know, it would be an incredible coincidence, I get that. But if it's not that, what else might be going on? Well, it could be psychological in terms of sharing and almost influencing the other person. into thinking that they heard something. So it could be that. There could also be other environmental explanations and I'm only throwing possibilities out there.
We haven't talked about ergot poisoning, for example. There's an example of an environmental explanation. Effectively, this... mushroom, this fungus that can appear on rye and similar sort of cereals, now that can affect people to an extreme level.
nausea, diarrhoea, vomiting, but at a lower level and over a prolonged period, it could potentially create hallucinations. It's a really interesting one, isn't it? It was cited in some instances in medieval times, I think, of mass hysteria, mass madness. mentioned in the Salem Witch Trials as well.
Exactly, yeah. Some recent research has flagged up the idea that potentially the community that persecuted these innocent young women were consuming mouldy bread, potentially, and that from that they were getting the ergot poisoning. was creating these hallucinations, creating this kind of misjudgment of what was going on. Evelyn, mouldy bread. Could that be a factor here?
No, you don't eat moldy bread and then see ghosts. That's just not how that happens. You would have so many other symptoms, you know, diarrhea, nausea, potentially rash, vomiting, things like that. We're also talking over quite a long period of time in this case, and everybody would have to...
to be eating the mouldy bread, including people that didn't live in the house. You're telling me there's an entire village eating mouldy bread for 10 years and having no other symptoms apart from the fact they see ghosts. I love it. I sometimes feel like a marriage guidance counsellor here. LAUGHTER Paranormal breakup. Look, thank you both. We will agree to disagree. So many interesting things coming up in this case. So many more to come.
Loads of interesting thoughts there. Keep all of your emails coming in to uncanny at bbc.co.uk. Let me know if you are feeling team sceptic or team believer. The one thing that I will say on this. is that there is no right or wrong here. We are dealing in opinions. And the beautiful thing is that it is OK.
to hold different ones. We can agree to disagree. We can change our minds and we can do all of that without the need to tell people who feel differently to us that they are idiots. That is the uncanny way. But whatever you feel, there is one thing that is in... no doubt here. The impact of all of this on Julian. So let's get back to him and our celebrity expert, Bridget Christie. Julian.
Is there part of you that would like to have this explained away? If Kieran could come up with a legitimate explanation that was scientific and wasn't paranormal, I'd be over the moon. We had these two big possibilities, didn't we? That it could be somehow connected to people in this case, somehow connected to you or your family. Or it could be connected to the house. And a crucial moment...
in that theory, was going and talking to the person who'd lived in the house after you. Now, I know you can't say too much about what she told you. She asked you not to, but she talked about... A couple of occasions where she'd experienced activity and it kind of rang a bell for you. Again, without sharing the specifics, it matched up in the right way that it was linked.
You seemed really different after you talked to her. You seemed so light and so relieved and so free. It felt like a weight had been lifted. If you look at the last period that I was in that house... It was just negative. Every negative emotion that you can think of. And it's almost like the slate was wiped clean when that new family moved in and it just completely changed it. That's how I...
see that this hasn't continued in the same way. Bridget, I know that people out there will have so many questions they'd like to ask Julian. You have him here in front of you right now. What would you like to ask? Did anything happen to you before your dad died? Did you ever see anything or hear anything or have feelings in the house? I remember... I would have been about six years old and I remember being woken up by my dad screaming downstairs and apparently something had appeared and...
screamed in his face in the front room. To your dad? Mm-hm. And then he told you? Well, actually, it was my mum who told me. He never spoke about it, but he was... And sort of in the last six months, nine months of his life, you would constantly hear him banging around downstairs. You just didn't sleep anymore. The armchair with the photos, could you just...
Talk me through that one again. Did you come down and the chair was in the middle of the room? No, I was on the sofa and there was a noise. The chair that's by the back door has been pulled. It's pretty much into the centre of the room and there's a stack of various photo albums just balanced right on the edge of the chair. This was one of the moments that really, really got me about this case, I think, Gillian, because...
There is so much going on there. You've got an object seemingly moving across a room, a massive, big, heavy object. Crucially as well, that photo album, that was something that was in your mum's closet in her room, and you'd heard the figure walking around that room previously.
Yeah, I heard you. I don't know how they got downstairs, but they've come out of the drawer, through the wardrobe door and downstairs, and then balanced. Bridget, how do we explain this? If it had happened to me, I would just assume that I had... forgotten that I'd moved the chair and then heard it move. It's hard. We're grasping at straws here. We're struggling. It's a moment that feels so full of threat, really, and it's...
It's probably where you felt most at risk from this thing. It was absolutely terrifying. I couldn't physically move. What do you think that was? Because it looks like sit in the chair and look at these photos, doesn't it? What, an invitation to have a look at the photos? I don't even think it was sit in the chair. I think it was look what I can do.
Or, now I've got your attention. Did you ever square up to it? Did you ever lose your rag at any point and... Actually fight back against it? Yeah, fight back, yeah. I tried it one night. and it had the opposite effect of what I was wanting. It rose to the challenge, basically. Oh, it didn't stop, it got worse? Yeah. I, you know, just out of frustration and anger...
I'd just lost it. I threw my old Nokia up the stairs towards whatever this thing was, started shouting, and that was one of the worst nights I had in the house. It just went off the rails that night. Almost like you've stirred the hornet's nest. It felt like it was almost tying with me. We heard in the episode about...
Those granny ghostbusters who came into your house and tried to cleanse it for you. They weren't the only people who came in and tried to sort things out, were they? There's somebody else as well who came and had a go at trying to remove this thing. So the local vicar, and he took a lot of persuading to even come to the house. This was the vicar who had been present at your mum's funeral? He was the vicar who did the ceremony, yeah. He buried my mum.
I phoned him probably two weeks after the funeral, gave him an update. He just seemed very confused by what I was saying. I called him again a few days later. He said that this is very common and normal and it's just grief. Don't worry about it. It'll pass. Called him again, said, it's not grief. Other people are now experiencing it. It's getting worse, etc. And it took a few months to actually get him out to the house. This is, I guess, a sign of your desperation at this point. You weren't...
religious particularly, but you just wanted or needed someone to come and do something. It felt like it was his job. This is what you do. You do marriages and christenings and you also... And exorcisms. You also do exorcisms or blessings or whatever you want to call it. I got him out to the house and we arranged a time and place I was to not be in the house. So I sat in the garden while he came in and did it.
So the schedule at that time, because it got so bad, was Martin, predominantly Martin, but sometimes other friends would come round at about 10 o'clock at night. They'd help me get the house locked up, it's all secure, and then I'd go round and sleep on their sofa. The vicar would come round, done his ghost-busting work. Martin came round about ten o'clock, sorted the dogs out, went round to his.
slept on his sofa we came around about nine in the morning to unlock the house we came in and i think i noticed it first i was like what is that on the wall And from the front room, past where the kitchen is, around the front door and all the way up to the top of the stairs, from floor to ceiling, was just little horizontal lines. just in no order, just randomly everywhere, of blood. What? Still damp, still wet. Was it blood?
Blood's very distinctive. And it was starting to... Congeal. Yeah. This is such a horrible moment. I spoke to Martin about this when he came to meet me. I just want to play you his side of things. So we walked in and Julian walked in ahead of me and there was what appeared to be blood that had kind of been smeared up the stairs. Blood? Red liquid.
It could have been blood. Well, reddy browny liquid, I suppose. On the banister and up the stairs, and then on the wall as well, opposite the stairs. As if somebody has cut themselves. That was my thought, yeah, that somebody would maybe cut themselves and as they've walked down the stairs or they've put blood all over him. That is not what you want to find when you walk into a house first thing in the morning. No, it's not, no.
It's quite incredible. Bridget, how the hell do we make sense of this? Oh, I mean, this one. I immediately thought that the vicar had been flicking something around. You know. Some kind of... Holy water. Red wine or something. OK. It was blood. I mean, regardless of what you believe, it's very disturbing. This feels like...
An escalation of some kind, whether we believe it's a ghost or whether it's a real person somehow doing this and torturing you. This is a huge progression. The timing as well, where I've tried to fight back. I've brought a holy man, a religious man, to bless the house, to get rid of whatever is happening. And just my interpretation, it really pissed it off. There is another possibility.
And I don't know what I feel about this. But is it also possible, because if this was happening to me, I'd want to find a rational explanation, is that... When my friends saw that I took comfort in them also experiencing things that a friend might say that they had too, it's a possibility. What you're saying, that somebody would say that just to make Julian feel comfortable?
I've done it myself. I mean, all I can say to that is you have not met Martin. I mean, Martin is the most resolute bastion of scepticism. I mean, he's more sceptic than Kieran. I mean, he doesn't necessarily believe that it's a ghost. has his own theories on how we can misinterpret things. But he saw that shadow figure. He heard the breathing and he saw the blood. Yeah, he did. And various other people as well. And...
It makes it more complex for me because it would be so much easier if I was imagining all these things, but various other people saw things and... I get your theory, but for this to have gone on for so long and so many times, it would be almost cruel for them to keep up this. And I don't think Martin is like that or any of my other friends.
Julian, this is one of the most intensely personal stories I think we've ever had on Uncanny. And I think everybody out there will be feeling this huge amount of empathy. How do you feel having come face to face with us again? It's been a real challenge, but I feel lighter, I feel relieved. I've got thousands of questions in my head, maybe even more than when we started, but... Feels pretty good.
is all we have time for on this episode of Postmortem. But I've got a feeling this is a case we will be talking about for quite a while. It will leave long shadows. We'll be doing an update on it at the end of the next episode of Uncanny. questions of theories into uncanny at bbc.co.uk or find me danny robbins on social media as ever these episodes are one half of a conversation you provide the other half can you
Help us solve these mysteries. Uncanny will be back next week at 9pm for our final episode of this series, followed by our fourth and final post-mortem on BBC Two, iPlayer and right here on BBC Sounds. It is an absolute cracker of a case. Until then, sleep well and don't have nightmares.
Uncanny Postmortem was written and presented by me, Danny Robbins. It was produced by me and Simon Barnard. Our editor is Nick Price. Sound design is by Charlie Brandon King. Music is by Evan Sykes. And our theme tune is by Gazelle. This is a Baffle Gab, an uncanny media production for BBC Sounds.
Hello, Greg Jenner here. I am the host of You're Dead to Me from BBC Radio 4. We are the comedy show that takes history seriously and then laughs at it. And we're back for a brand new series, Series 9, where we're covering all sorts of things from Aristotle to the legends of King Arthur to the... We'll see you next time. We get great comedians. So if you want to listen to You're Dead to Me, listen first on BBC Sounds.