Unapologetically Black would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the lands where this podcast is being hurt or watched across this great island continent now known as Australia and across the world. We would also like to pay our respects to elders past and present and acknowledge that this always was and always will be Aboriginal lands.
Welcome to Unapologetically Black with Ginny, Mara and Will.
Hello, everyone, Welcome to episode one of Unapologetically Black. I'm so excited to be here with my co hosts Mara and Will.
How are you, guys? How was your weekend?
Yeah? Good, amazing, Well, not amazing, I'm lying it was amazing amazing. For you know, when someone says how are I'm good, thank you, and you really are. I don't have time to tell you how I really am. So we do have a little bit of time, but I'm mindful of time as well. I hosted a birthday party for Tiger Lily and I had ten seven year olds for twenty four hours and my titter girl, Elizabeth Walker,
big shout out to you, helped me. And I'm talking about slumber party, sleepover, disco, high tea, the lot tea. It was it was high tea, but she just wanted sushi, just sushi for high tea, seven year old sushi, hi te So we did that and we went all out. So I bought a new house, some beautiful Sunshine Cours. It's on a big block, nearly two acres and it's got everything from a tennis court and I mean champion sized tennis court. Yeah, we roll basketball swimming pool at Chacuzzie. Okay,
imagine being a seven year oldist basketballs. It was like, oh and then she's got the you know, her present was like a trampoline and a swing set because she just didn't have enough. Oh when the people came and set up the tepees like proper slumber party. But I did havelottresses for the kids until one it to me my hair dress I said, what do you mean you don't have anything organized on a Thursday morning getting my head done, I'm like no, It's like, so where are
they sleeping? I know, some mattresses on the floor. That's how black fellows do things. Yeah, she goes get on Facebook and have a look at these party people with teapees. So thanks to Gabby, my hairdresser, within an hour. I had this amazing party planned as if I'd been planning all tiglerly life. So yes, Elizabeth and I pulled it off. My teddy Jarka and La La and Matt came up to Budroom, beautiful Budgroom on the Sunny Coast on Kabycaby Country and the catering and just helped me set up
and welcome parents. Because me and Elizabeth were still running around parties started it too, were still at Bunnings Corey Side, so Elizbeth at Butnings and I took a video of us running through bunning so let my husband know that we weren't having a mimosa down at the club. So I let you took a video just to let them know that we're not having you know, catch up auntie time. So get there as amazing. The kids get dropped off
parents or go. And one of my good friends stayed and was having a yarn and basically just talked about you know why a lot of my family are not kind of at the party, And I said, well, most of them don't actually come to the Sunny Coast. There've been once or twice, but it's just you know, it lacks diversity, and let's just be honest. Now, the Sunnay Coast is very white, and you notice that as a as a Poston of color, as a black woman, abash a woman, you notice that with five black kids and
a Fijian husband, we stick out wherever we go. So anyways, my friend, literally, you know, I was trying to understand why, you know, this is happening in terms of why do we feel uncomfortable as black fellows living on the Sunday Coast. I have been there for three years and things haven't
really changed. This is just how it is, right, just one of those places where the older, you know, the demographic the people that live there are you know, at least sixty seventy eighty and up to one hundred because there are a lot of them are retirees. So how to give you context because when you know, I was explaining that not many people come to visit us, and even our experience that morning at a cafe was kind of very uncomfortable. My friend said, literally, well, yeah, I
guess it's because you're white presenting. And I was like, white presenting, a white passing, white presenting, And then I looked at Elizabeth now. Elizabeth Walker's great grandmother is Annie l Daru Nu Nu call Kathwalker right. If you haven't heard of Kathwalker or Juna knuckleor you should google art. She was part of the mob back in the days that led Australia to the last successful referendum, and she's also part of a documentary that features Dad. We'll talk
about that in the moment. But I was like, for the as time I was, I was shut. I literally had no I had no comeback, and Elizabeth looked at me and I kind of looked away, and then she didn't know because she didn't know how well I knew the mum. So it was a moment where I just I was like, Okay, I've got no words.
What does she mean by white white presenting?
Though?
What because you have a nice house, to that big tennis, call in that jacuzzi, and maybe what does she mean?
Elizabeth said, well, obviously you know you're educated and if you look at success, but listen, this is what Elizabeth was trying to get me to understand. Because I was still like afterwards, got hey, we're hosting a party here and not get caught up in what just happened, right, so and it is on the weekend, like we do this ship for a living. So I didn't really want to get into it, but we kind of, you know, sidestep that and just kept going. Anyhow, Elizabeth was talking
about societies measures of success. Do you know I've never spoken about this to anyone before that I've reached or ticked all those boxes. I've reached all those different you know, getting married, you know, buying a house and having a successful business, and all of these things are what society measures you buy or define success. She's like, so maybe that that's white presenting.
What by being successful, you're now white presenting?
Yes, And I am from Redfern and I you know, most of the photos and stuff on the internet are usually linked back or somehow connected to my dad. And my dad was quite political and you know out there with everything from the protest movement, the land rights movement, Like my grandmother's brother was the one that was organizing the eighty two Commonwealth Games protest, which was a pretty full on protest in Brisbane. So all I kept thinking
in my head is has she never googled me? And I'm not a big nahdor you.
Should have that, but google a big note.
But if you google someone and you saw my family, that you can't get any blacker. And if you don't know my family, then you might need a Google Tiger Bales and then that will open up a whole can of worms and then you'll know what you're gonna get when you meet me. But I'm a bit toned down.
I just think what I find funny throughout yar is like, like, why why do.
White fellows kind of give themself permission to even say it?
Though?
What comes with like, I just understand it?
First? What does white passing mean? And one why do they even feel like they have to say it? Because it's by doing so it kind of implies that blackfellows aren't smart, not successful, And it just I find it really interesting, not ambitious.
Yeah, and maybe that's a question you should ask her when you when there's time and space for it.
Maybe that's Listen, you said something that spark let's catch up. It sparked a thought in an episode on a podcast. Yes, well, what did you mean by that?
Because I'd be interested to hear what their answer is. What does what exactly?
What I thought it was?
My I'll be honest with you.
You thought it was the way you like, I always.
Thought white passing because our mobs say it.
Right, colorism.
Right, there's black fils that we know, bless them that have found out they were black recently. Some of them really know who they are and where they come from, but they're white as a ghost, and a lot of white Australians seem to think, you know that they're not Aboriginal or they're not real.
Right.
We get arcs all the time like how Aboriginal are you or what part aboriginals? So you know, put that shit aside, but it is important. But I've heard a lot of our own mobs saying that I've had a different experience as an Abiginal person because I am white passing. So I've heard it in that context because of the white skin. But we don't say white skin. So for people that are listening to this podcast, we talk about
fair skin or light skin black fellows. We don't say, oh, they're white looking or white featured.
To go back to kind of the thought process behind Lizzie bless Her, like, do you think it comes from a place of ignorance? And I kind of just look at that because I was watching a video the other day on TikTok and I don't know whether you've heard it before, but it's.
It's called like I Could be Ninja.
Have you heard of her?
Can I play it for you?
Because I think it kind of speaks to the point around like ignorance. And it's a video of this woman from the US and she's a white woman with blonde hair, blue eyes, and she it's like, I want to be Ninja and like, I'll just got to play it. So she's a white woman from the US who's made this song about wanting to be Ninja, and she's then gone on to like make a full video about it, and
she's done it at the UNICEF kind of charity. And I find it really interesting because it's like ignorance is really bliss.
So with the like I'll be honest with you, my husband will agree, a lot of this shit goes over my head. So when she says I want to be Ninja, now she said I want to be Asian.
I think I want to meet. The story is that it's the fact that she's a white woman singing she wants to be Ninja, and she's like the whole point around is exactly like Ninja is very much.
Like Turtles Ninja, I'm dead. What's kind of take.
Away the ninja?
The way she was singing the song in an Asian accent. She wants to be Ninja. It's the act of being Chinese or Asian, because it's like it's the point was is the ignorance of this woman singing a room singing as an Asian woman in this room with her, and the point around it is like the ignorance how blicicit is? Do you think that's kind of what happens in exchange when white fellows say that to you or you're white presenting or white passing, Like, do you think that it.
Was a compliment to me though as well?
Is it?
No?
No? I think for my friend she felt like I think, and I don't know if she even thought about that, right, but I kind of got it as a compliment where I didn't know whether to say thank you.
Slapper.
Yes, but let me do let me say this that in three years of living in a very white neighborhood, the first family that Tiger Lily you met at kinder, the first family to come up to us was his family. The first family to invite us into their house and to have my daughter over and to even let me use their nanny. So to me, this person is someone that I would say is a good friend of mine,
and I didn't want to offend or upset her. And it was a seven year old birthday party at the same She's looking after her baby and I'm looking after kids. And I got my deadly sister Elizabeth here, and I got my sister and their cooking, like it was all all this was happening. And then I'm like, I found myself. Do I want to go black Cart? Do I want to go black Cart? Or do I save my energy?
Because the next day at four o'clock, I was on a plane to Sydney and with a client Monday delivering training. So you've got to.
Look, I think it comes like the whole point, right, It's like I don't believe she was Probably she probably had good intent, but it's like, why did black felt have to then go to educate people?
It becomes our burden and carriers.
Say, oh, actually, what you're saying is quite offensive, and I think it speaks to the whole point of ignorance.
And I know, but just let's let's just be real here that that ignorance, has you know, supported me to buy.
Well, exactly the house that I love, had a woman very successful, that jacuzzi, the sushi, the tennis court.
Is it? I don't sell washing machines or taller paper, right. I deliver with my elders and a very deadly team of blackfellows. We deliver cultural capability training, which could also be seen as anti racism training. And to buy a house and the first time on the Sunny Coast in a very white, exclusive neighborhood. I would say that sometimes I'm not appreciative of the racism in Australia, but I kind of think, well, you know, my next house might
be coming sooner than later. Right, thank you? We're talking post reference.
That's a big that's a big weekend for your mara.
What was your weekend?
Like?
Well, I was just going to say, it's funny that you brought that up because on Thursday was I doing Thursday Thursday Night? Okay, so little You guys don't know this about me, but in my spare time, because I'm a very busy person, my way of like unwinding is I stream online?
Are you a gamer?
No? I just talked to randoms on the Internet, so.
Apps online and it started in COVID and I because I moved to America, right, So I was in America, COVID happened.
I don't you're married?
Right?
You listener and he knows.
Yes, you're married. Married forced her husband and marry a right days.
And so when when I was in the US, I was so bored and I was like, what can I do. I'm not leaving the house. And I came across one.
Of these ads that was like stream online and meet people and blah blah blah. Anyway, so I started streaming on this app and I met some really cool people.
And they've actually become my friends.
In fact, one of my earlier episodes, unapologetically Bike I called it we have one of the people that I met on there, that I met online, and he's one of the coolest people I've ever met. He's a black Nigerian follow that lives in London, and he was telling us his experience about being black in the UK and the perspective. But so, I've met some really cool people
on there. But it's funny, I feel like I have two personas, Like I have this little streaming situation and then there's me outside of that, and I never really intertwined the two.
I never you know people what I do.
And so there's only fans, right, that's streaming, just.
People watching you, only fans.
I'm not but thinking streaming, right, like tell me you watch they're looking at you.
What are you doing?
Just whatever? Just usually just talking. You could be at the.
Desk and set up with a light so you look good.
Yeah, sometimes and then.
Sometimes most of the time, I'm also working, like I'll be painting or something.
Mara Mara. Make it sounds like it's a bit more like per than it actually is.
Right, all these people are gonna be like, what are you doing?
My husband, I'm going to take up streaming.
I would be a bit confused.
So it's a platform that you just stream your day and you could be like doing painting or your makeup or cooking to people.
Yeah, and TikTok from.
Yeah, it's like it's exactly like TikTok live and you can do battles and stuff like that as well make money and stuff.
You can make money. So I make money on that, and I have made money, which is nice, just a little.
But now you've pricked interest.
When there's money, yes, and I listen.
It's been so much fun for me because I don't as an Australian living in America at the time. It was just so much fun. People loved that I had a different accent. You can imagine, like it shows you who's nearby. So I'm in Macon, Georgia, the countryest town in America, and here's this Australian like everyone you know and a audience.
Yeah, like you just you come online, there's a whole audience. Can you see everyone?
I can see them come in the room, like their.
Names, so you know who's in the room. Yes, Oh my god. You take me back to like alamack chat. When I first got onto the internet. I was in grade nine and alamack chat you chose what want to go into ice, to go under the hot tub?
Oh, that's an episode of freaking.
And there my space came after.
Back now, yes, so it's like that, but it's all videos. So you just see me and I'm sitting there doing whatever I do.
So many like viewers.
Do you get you're a few hundred built a loot tune in to watching. Yes, but this is what it's funny.
What's the handle of watch.
We don't mix the two. Have you find me to get it?
So a lot of my audience will be Americans, right, and that's what they love.
They love the accent.
They love you know that I always get the Steve l when kangaroos, spiders, snakes in that order.
Yes, And anyway, so.
I've known, like after years of doing this, I have like a few little friends that live throughout the world that often come and see me and hang out. We've gotten to know each other. And on Thursday night, I got really drunk on my stream. I barely I don't barely drink anymore, but I was home alone. I thought, you know, I'm gonna have a wine and that turned into two bottles of wine and half a bottle.
Of bloody tequila.
Where was my invitation?
Three four hundred people?
And literally I had a few apologies that I had to make the next day.
Because listen, this what this got. This guy that I've been friends with for a really long time, I want.
Well, you know, he said to me, because I was drunk, you know, a little bit intoxicated, and he was like.
What's how's everything going?
I said, Oh my gosh, I'm my new I'm having another podcast come up, and he doesn't know I had.
A podcast because I never mentioned it.
You know, these people know me as Ginny online and then I have a whole audience, the black followers over here. Yes, yes, so two different personas than God. I hope they don't find me on here now.
But so basically, he I said, I'm starting a podcast. We're recording on Wednesday.
And he was like, wait, he's a rapper quote unquote, and listen, I'm going to drag you today because you deserve it. But he said to me, oh, you have a podcast and I said, yeah, I do, and he goes, what's it called? And I said, unapologetically black. This is a black American man. And he just went do you have co hosts? And I said I do, and he goes, are they blacker than you?
He didn't know you were black. He has, well, it's or you're white Australian.
Yes, yes, oh my god, talking about that. Do you remember after your boat boat at Nadock? What your boat your Nadok event my boat your boat? After Nado?
We were going, we were hanging out.
I went to be my fortieth birthday party.
We went out for a last it's going to make sense in a sec we were leaving a pub and we were going going out. I then proceed, hey, let's go you black follows who was in front of us to American people, both African American.
They both turned around and went.
What do you mean? And we were like, no, no, it's nadock week.
Black fellow's means something different here in Australia. It was just a language thing, right, it speaks his kind of They don't understand it, and he didn't even realize that you were.
And it's a real thing because when I first moved to the US, I was like, I don't know about you guys, but you watched like we grew up in that watching hip hop Tupac and as black follows in another continent, in another country, I feel like, and they're watching their civil rights movement. A lot of other countries that have black people in them look to America as sort of pioneers in such a way. And I was like, when I moved to America, I thought, oh my god, this is gonna be cool.
I'm gonna meet cool black people, and.
I did, but I also met black people who were like, you're not black.
Stop calling yourself back. It's embarrassing. And so he laughed in my face and listen.
Triggered trigger, trigger, triggered trigonometry.
Was like a brown person over there, No, he's you know that you're not brown.
He said what is your ethnicity?
And I said I'm Aboriginal Australian and he was like okay, and I was like and he I was like those are they are black people in Australia and he.
Was like, no, they're not.
And so we had this whole moment and it listen, it turns on your stream.
Yeah people, Yeah, so you're doing.
This in front of you, got in the box, he was in, he was.
On the podium, he's.
In the video with me and streaming with him.
Yeah, And we were having a whole situation and it honestly just triggered like twenty year old Jinny that just would training on the.
Time, was you drunk two bottles deep with a half bottle? Someone telling me that the people in Australia? What was that was?
Actually got popped out the day I was watching have you seen the documentary one four about the group from over on Western Sydney?
I did see their show. I was that was my kid's first concert.
Yeah, this one is a big night again.
But they did, they did.
They popped onto the skater the scene with their wrapping.
And it was interesting because in the documentary they were talking about in the US they never thought there were black people in Australia because they thought us to be tall, blonde hair, blue wide or dude. And that's kind of how their home and Crocodile Home and Away, Steve Irwin.
But you know, it's it's interesting because I meet a lot of black follows and I said, black fallows internationally like brown, black, melanated.
People, and generally they get it, you know, but this foller didn't.
And he and it just triggered me so bad because he couldn't stop laughing about it, like he was laughing in my face. And again two bottles of Muscado DTA and a bottle of half a bottle of tequila custom egos.
Did is there a worm in there? Because it's my favorite?
Didn't? Girl?
It should have, because I want to. I would have just been like, all right, let's go, because then let's go. I was, and I literally argued with this man for like forty five minutes trying to prove myself.
I just recorded anywhere. No no, no, God, I ended up what really living life as a black woman having to always kind of not fight for your existence. But yeah, constantly, no, I'm this, I'm that. Hold a minute. Sometimes you start to think, am I that like, because you've just told me that I'm not in a like you said. It's triggering because there's a lot of those early childhood memories where people have told us that we're not average, we're not who we say that we are.
And I think that that's the thing, right.
I feel like in Australia, it's you meet black follows in either it's all the same story almost you know they're either too black or they're.
Not black enough. And then I go to this.
And then I go to another country and I think, you know, this might be nice for me, a bit of a change because.
They embrace me as their black sister.
No, that's not even what I love going for. But do you know I noticed as well. And I don't know if you mob get out of the country very often, but I feel like we.
Don't have that much money. Look a five kits in toe.
But I feel like the only time I've ever referred to myself as Australian.
Is when I'm not in the country. I would never be like, hi, I'm Australian.
I love that you mentioned that, Tedda because just looking at some scripting recently for a co production watch This Space, I had to look at the word ossie and go, oh, that actually excludes people like me and my children who don't actually identify with the Aussie culture or even my kids. Just recently they ticked the box but it was Fijian for a I was Tag's date Cup team. They had to fill in the form I'm a thirteen year old. You know these filazies Andy pick up your mom. Don't
worry if you don't. You haven't registered me. I'll do it myself, yes, sweet as. And they do it. They pay, They got credit card details, they got what is it called pay Apple payer on their phones. I'm like, hold a minute, how did you get my card on your fagers? The moment's easiest punch your numbers into my Wow. Anyhow, this is a true story. So yeah, Lemecki had he took Fiji and I was like, wow, is that interesting
that his dad is a Kiwi born Fijian. His mother's aberage ko and on a form where it has picked your nationality. He went straight to Fijian. But he's been raised by a black mother, like an aberge or mother. That takes him back to my wedding in Fiji, when I went to talk to the elders about this wedding that my husband knew nothing about. True story.
She tricked him.
The first thing that he heard was when I was sitting there talking about it. And because he was adopted at birth, my beautiful husband has gone through this whole kind of journey and process of finding out who he is. And it was a psychic that told me to take him back to his island. He hadn't been back since his month passed twenty something years ago. True story. Yah looked after my kids, our kids, and Tiger Lily was three months old, and I just said to Peace, I've
got a plane ticket. We're going to feed you in two weeks. He's like why. I was like, we're going to go find your people. He's like, what do you mean I did. We jumped on the plane. We went to this foreign country. What it's not it's an island, but you know, foreign place and we love the country though. Yeah, yeah, but we rocked up and we went and we just jumped in a car and we drove around and you know, his sister, Melissa, beautiful Melissa, I rang her straight away.
So I was in contact with one of his siblings and she was helping us as like our kind of translator, because Peace does not speak his mother tongue. He can understand it, but he can't speak it. So it turns up to his you know, his country and with me. But he didn't know that we're going. And when we went to the village to meet with his family and elders, I'm not joking. Sitting with the elder in the circle, he looked at me and he said to me and he touched my arm and he was like, are you
a white woman? And pieces looking at me and I look at it.
And I'm like, no, this is the elder.
The elder in Fiji in the village who's about to approve our wedding, is trying to figure out what I was. So I said, no, I'm a black woman, and he has a black woman. I said, yeah, I'm a black woman. I'm black Australian. That's the first time I said Australian.
Wow.
And he goes, oh, like indigenous. I said, yeah, he goes oh. He says, you're like a strong Fijian woman.
But isn't that That's the thing.
It's like you don't realize it from the outset what that looks like. And so I've definitely come across lots of those people lately and it's been testing me. And usually I have the time in space, you know, and I will want to go through that comment. But this follow was laughing in my face and I dragged him for days on this street me up and I literally yeah, he was like, well, hope there's black people.
And here I am.
Make me bring back my honey and my sisters. My brothers are going to bring them are back and show you how black we are.
It's crazy, it's wild, but I mean, yeah, isn't it nice.
I think that ignorance is bliss stuff sometimes.
It I think that's going to be the title of this episode. Ignorance is bliss unapologetically black, and I think that is enough for our guess.
Again, good enough actually was quite boring anyway, it wasn't it.
It wasn't The nearest one is yours?
Maybe next thing I am I in next episode, you hear about my weekends. Now, look, it wasn't as good as said. You had a much much more robust weekend than I are. A bigger weekend.
I literally robust. It's a good word for a bloody Wednesday.
How we have conversations about racism? I wrote that one.
I was relaxed because I talked about me being a care But my nieces have moved out recently, so I've kind of regained a bit of my independence back. Even I've got a man, but I babysat my nieces and nephews, the twins, and what I realized for that I never want kids.
So that's my takeaway from weekend.
Yeah, I love it. That's it.
That as excited as it gets for me these days.
Thanks Will, thanks for sharing.
Sorry we took over, but yeah, ignorance obviously is bliss at times it works. But we hope you guys join us next time for another episode of Unapologetically.
Book Yes and don't forget to rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts from.
And tuning in next week to hear more about my weekend.
But what about it? Also? Do we want people to start like writing to us, writing reading like, can they write in share something with us? If you want to, you can slide into Ginny's DMS. I'm married, Are you're married, We're all married. Don't slide into anyone's d ms. Just be real and tell us what you want.
I want your number, where you live.
Just just say is no. We are all taken and it's not complicated.
Well, this this took a real time.
We can't wait to We can't wait to come back with some more juicy black stuff.
Thanks for listening to Unapologetically Black, brought to you by Black cast Our Voices and produced by Cliff Curtis.
Juicy Black Juicy black Stuff. That's going to be the name of the episode, Juicy Black Star