Session 5: Awakening to the Moment
Positive Affirmation: Address this moment with a sense of wonderment and innocence, for it is the doorway into your deepest joy.
Seamus: I would like to begin this session with the following passage from your book Be Love: A Book About Awakening. “Life is not about being positive. Being in the moment helps you remain calm if life starts to fall apart. A positive person is not always a realistic person. Being truly in this moment is about being honest and real with what is happening from one moment to the next.” When you say, “Being truly in this moment is about being honest and real,” what do you mean by that?
Ned: It is about giving up the fantasy of ones mind. We have a strong propensity to escape the moment to be entertained by the commentary of our mind. When we are willing to let go of the need to change what is happening around us we become more honest and real with it. Whatever is unfolding around me is what I need to accept. Resist the urge to get lost in the fantasy of your mind. In the past, I would try to squeeze the moment into what I thought it should be. I would try to change the moment to match my minds' assumptions. At times I would reject what was around me because it didn’t match the fictitious reality stuck in my mind.
I would ignore subtleties or certain facts about what was happening. I think we sometimes do this with friends whom we have outgrown. We start to ignore the behaviours and mindsets of our friends, especially when they are out of sync with our own ideals. When we do, lose the connection with the moment. It is easy to turn a blind eye to maintain the comfort of an old friend. However, our heart always knows what is best for us. For the heart is always honest and in line with our purpose.
Seamus: When you are saying that you would ignore certain subtleties that were happening around you, do you think they are subtle or are they are more obvious than maybe you gave them credit for?
Ned: I think they were obvious. I think this happens a lot. Another example is when we have changed and grown apart from our partner, we sometimes ignore what the heart really knows to be true. We ignore what is happening in our relationship. Also, we may we ignore what is happening in our relationships with coworkers. For example; if someone at work is harassing another employee, we may turn a blind eye and even go along with the charade in spite of the fact that we do not feel that way.
Seamus: I am wondering, if when people turn a blind eye it is because they do not want to deal with confrontation. Do you think that is what it is? Also, do you think people undervalue the detriments of keeping friendships that no longer serve us?
Ned: I think, often, we stick around out of habit. We can find great comfort in an old friend. My point, that, by being honest and real with the moment, we are required to be more authentic. Workplace harassment is a great example of that.
I think we often defer responsibility in the moment because we are not really connected with that moment. Nor are we connected to the repercussions of what we say or do sometimes. I feel it is more responsible to be honest in our response, or our lack thereof, to what is happening around us. If you are not in agreement with something happening around you maybe it is time to say something.
There have been many times when my honest and authentic engagement with the moment inspired me to say something loving. This is another way we can be honest with the moment. For instance, I was in a restaurant a few nights ago and I recognised the waitress that came to the table. I remember her coming into my store in Ingersoll. I always had a nice feeling around her. She radiates a certain positivity. So, I let her know by saying, " I have always observed you to be such a loving, positive person. I want to share that with you." Those words were on my heart, so I decided to express them to her, even though I didn’t really know anything about her. The next day I received a Facebook message from her, it read, "It is really nice to hear those simple words that you said. Those simple little comments that you made, landed on me quite tenderly." It was something maybe that she needed to hear in that moment. An honest authentic engagement with the moment places us more deeply into the wider parameter of what is happening around us.
Seamus: That is interesting because I wanted to know, what is the benefit of staying in the moment.
Ned: The benefits are more than you may realize. When you show up for your life you start to notice all kinds of things. Your life radically changes by showing up for it. I am not missing so many moments of my life. I am capturing all these subtle gifts and miracles that are surrounding me, Life is no longer passing me by. A teacher of mine teacher used to talk about his head not being in the same place as his body. I think a lot of people can relate to this. He would get up in the morning and before breakfast his mind was already thinking about work. By the time he got to work he was already halfway through his day. Then by the end of the day, he was already home, in his mind. When he got home from work his mind was already back at work worrying about the next work day. His head and his body never showed up in the same place at the same time. I think this is a pretty common scenario.
This story illustrates how the mind always desires something different than what is unfolding in the moment. The mind tends to interrupt the moment and seek something else on which to focus. However, when we enter this moment fully and keep our head and body in the same place, we begin to catch the sanctity of this moment. It is hard to convey this in words. Once you have this experience personally you will have a better sense of what I am talking about. To sum this up, my authentic engagement with moment has given me a greater reverence for life.
Seamus: When you are describing the mind and body being in two different places, is that just a product of being discontent with the moment because you don't like what is currently happening around you? What if you really dislike your job but you cannot necessarily quit right now because you rely on it for your income? I think it is a natural tendency to daydream or to be absent in the moment.
Ned: When we learn how to be present, by setting down our mind, we sometimes find that our work is not the prison we have made it to be at all. Again, it is a tendency of the mind to want something different. If we learn how to engage in the moment, we might find that the moment is different than we otherwise thought.
If we engage in the moment, often the most mundane tasks are transformed into blissful experiences. I experienced this when I worked in a factory. I always I felt I wanted to escape. My mind wanted to be somewhere else but I was stuck in a hot, stinking cardboard factory.
At the time I was learning the art of meditation. I began using my job as a meditation. My job at that time was to stack bundles of boxes. I began to practice becoming intently present. I would see the bundle, I would feel the bundle in my hands and I would be conscious of moving the bundle as if it had no weight. It became my Zen art of stacking. I would stack them as perfectly as I could in the process I felt very alive and in those moments. Trust me, there is nothing entertaining about stacking thousands upon thousands of cardboard boxes. But, when I practiced staying in the moment at work, my job not only got better but I started enjoying it.
I practised this a lot in the factory. I found that the fastest way to escape being there was to put myself there fully. What I was really escaping was my mind. When I became completely present, my mind disappeared. This is one of the qualities of being present. The mind is longer the object of our affection. There is too much happening around us to be distracted by the limited chatter and perspective the mind offers.
Seamus: That is funny because I would think to enjoy your experience stacking boxes, you would have to use your mind to cultivate a positive feeling inside yourself that makes you content doing that. You might think of things like, "Well, I drove here today in a nice car. I'm alive. I can breathe. I can talk to people. This weekend I'm going to the cottage. I got a wife at home that I love spending time, within three more hours I'll be there." Some people might use positive thinking to get their way through a day but what you are saying is you did not think it all, you were just present.
Ned: When I became fully present, if there were thoughts I was not aware of them. I just completely put all my attention on what I was doing. It became a beautiful experience. This is a practice I still use today. I try to maintain a constant awareness of the moment. I take in what is around me, you never know what life is going to present. Life becomes an adventure when we throw ourselves deeply into the moment. We never know what is coming next!
Seamus: Yes.
Ned: I don't know what is around the corner.
Seamus: Absolutely.
Ned: Why would I want to? There is so much good stuff happening right now that why would I ever need to leave this moment?
Seamus: That is a great way to start this session, awakening to the moment. We talked about a few ways to stay in the moment. Now, talk to me about why we lose touch with the moment.
Ned: We lose touch with the moment as soon as we become too engaged with our mind and emotions. The moment never ceases to exist when we don't stay present in it. We lose track of what is really at hand. Our thoughts and feelings are insignificant compared to what is unfolding right now.
Seamus: Earlier you talked in detail about staying in the moment and I brought up the fact that, what if we use our minds to facilitate positive thinking, et cetera, et cetera. Do you have any other suggestions that you could provide us to help stay anchored in the moment when our mind starts to run amok?
Ned: Yes, for starters you can use breathing techniques. I know a lot of people use them to be more present. “Squared breathing” is something taught at the police college. To do this you inhale for five-seconds, hold for five seconds, exhale for five-seconds and then hold for five seconds. Repeat.
Another technique is “Alternate nostril breathing.” To do this you plug one nostril and breathe in through your nose and alternate with the other nostril while breathing in. Again, you continue to do that for a period of time. You can find a more detailed description online if you wish to try this breathing technique. I find these breathing practises help me stay fresh with the moment. I encourage bringing these practises into your daily life.
One of the things I learned from a great master who came into my life one day was to practice mentally running through my day before I drift off to sleep. Just do a quick run through your day and try to recall everything that happened. That is a good indication of how present you were throughout the day. Another technique is after meeting someone, review the conversations you had with that person. Try to bring more awareness to what others tell you and what you are sharing.
Seamus: That is very interesting because you did not mention that in the book. That is very compelling because as soon as you said that, I just quickly went through my Rolodex for today, recalling how my day went. Mind you, a lot of how my day went was spending it with you in this room doing interviews, but there might be like little intricacies that I have forgotten. Little things that might take me a moment or two to recall. That is a great tip! I like that a lot. Now you say in the book, “What is happening in this moment is no accident.” So, are there no accidents in life?
Ned: Okay. This is a very complex question. There are many factors that create our life. Firstly, when you think of Karma you think of cause and effect in your life. The collective agreement is that if you do unkind things, misfortune will eventually come back to you. However, there are several lines of Karma running independently in your life. They all work together simultaneously. This is something that I have learned from my own experience. Here are three lines of independent Karma. Your souls' karma, your bodies' karma and the karma of your actions and creations.
1. The Karma of your souls' destiny; We come into this world with a purpose and a reason. That Karma needs to be executed over the duration of ones' life. If you believe that we have more than one life, then it needs to be executed over the duration of all your lives. That is the Karma of your destiny.
2. Your body has its own independent Karma. It is independent of your souls Karma. Which I will explain in a minute.
3. Then you have the Karma that results from your choices and your creations in your life. The cause and effect karma.
Your body's Karma. I remember asking my teacher “Why do good people get cancer.” I think this is a question that a lot of people may have especially when good people get sick. It has a way of challenging our faith a little bit. You say, "Why them? Why not the person who is committing crime or harming children?” My teacher said that our body has its own Karma. When we come into this body we knowingly accept the Karma that comes with our body. It does not matter how good we are, or how terrible. Your body has its Karma to live. That answer helped me to understand why good people get sick. Even cancer. I think, that is one reason why some go through it.
Your consciousness is another factor. Your degree of consciousness creates a range of potentials to show up in your life. Within your level of consciousness, you have your highest and your lowest potential. The amount of time we spend in higher states of consciousness, causes a natural inclination towards loving and purposeful decisions. When we are turned inward to the silence, in holding that space, we are resting in God. This inward time raises our consciousness and again it helps us make choices that are loving and positive and in alignment with our purpose. What comes into our life is the result of the choices within our current state of consciousness.
The more we point ourselves toward our highest potential, the more conscious we become. That effects the range and reach of our potential. We create a wider range of potential and have a further reach within it. It is our free will to make choices in a positive direction or a negative one.
Here is another angle as to why life has no accidents. The mind perceives things as good or bad. It does not have the ability to see a wider view of life. What it perceives as misfortune may not be as bad as we tend to think. Sometimes terrible things happen and those events result in something great.
Again, are there accidents? If I break my leg, maybe there is a wider range of purpose involved in that. Maybe because I broke my leg I had to go to a rehabilitation clinic and while I’m there I meet my perfect mate. That is the thing about life. It is so random. It appears to be random. There are many moments happening in our lives that just do not make sense. The mind then labels them good or bad.
Another layer in my beliefs is that angels are around us. In my past, I never gave this much thought. We hear about angels a lot from the new age spiritualists. I thought that it was just this big airy, faerie fluffy thing. What I have come to realize is that sometimes we get these little nudges. My understanding now, leads me to believe it is angels. There are times when angels are pushing our chin to look left, look right. These little nudges that we get, are angels lining up the moments in our lives. I am not trying to convince anyone to believe in angels, but I do feel that some things indicate a much bigger plan.
The last thing I will introduce which really messes the mind up, and may be hard to get your head around, is our future moments sometimes show up early.
Your mind may have a difficult time making sense of this concept. This moment here now is the past of the future. Sometimes things that are going to happen down the road start to happen before they actually happen, which blows my mind. It blows most peoples' minds. But it happens. It happens because life is not a linear event. We talked about this in the first session. Life doesn't unfold a to b to c, rather it unfolds d to w to p and so on. The mind only assembles life to appear that it is unfolding in a linear progression.
Seamus: Its quite an illusion, right? Because that is what most people will assume is the truth, is that our life works in a linear progression.
Ned: We tend to manifest what is in our range of consciousness. Here is how our consciousness affects what is happening in our lives. If I am focused on thoughts around phobias, fears and my misfortunes, I may draw more of that into my life. This is the premise of what I was talking about with the new thought movement. There is a build up and a resonance to all the things on which we place our attention. Ethos develops around our life and in accordance to our line of trajectory. That is why it is so important to learn how to direct our focus. When we become in sync with the moment and our focus becomes laser sharp, we can start to manifest our reality exponentially.
Things start to fly into our lives. My observation has been the more I sharpen my focus and narrow my thoughts into one direction, the faster the results start to show up. If you are thinking about terrible, awful things, you may be a magnet that draws more of that to happen. When I was unconscious, my mind was so scattered. It was impossible for me to focus on anything. What you focus on becomes more important as you move further along your path. With more focus you begin to become more conscious of where you are pointing yourself. Your trajectory becomes a very real and powerful thing to play with.
“Life is an adventure best understood by living it one moment at a time.”
Seamus: Now would you say that there is a direct reason why some people become so numb to life? Why aren't more people elated by the gift of life, what are your thoughts on that?
Ned: We become numb in life when we are trapped in our routines and when we don’t live up to the potential of our souls’ purpose. Internally, we stop engaging our soul and fix our attention on the mind and settle for a lifeless path.
Seamus: Is there a practical way to prevent our minds from determining outcomes and keeping us from being present? Is this just a simple matter of putting your mind down as we discussed earlier?
Ned: It is and again, pardon me for repeating myself, but it is a practice. You practice holding your attention on what is around you. Also, it helps to become innocent with the moment. Being innocent helps us to surrender and to plunge ourselves into the moment. If we are addressing this moment with innocence, it prevents us from predetermining outcomes.
Seamus: Something I want to talk about. When we use the phrase the innocence of a child, there is likely no other human being that is more present than a child discovering their world for the first time. What is your definition of innocence? Some people might say innocence is when you maintain good actions consciously, but is there more to it than that?
Ned: Yes, there is a lot more to innocence than that. That is the outward appearance of what innocence is.
Seamus: Which is the common understanding of it I think, right?
Ned: That is right. Innocence is the true and pure radiance of your being. That is what real innocence is. If somebody is truly innocent, the radiance of their being is shining forth from them. I had an apprentice, Aimee Allen. She was such an innocent person. She had a certain beauty about her. It was her innocence. She had this special quality about her and she still has it today. When I see Amy, I feel a reverence for her. Her husband is a wonderful man as well. They both have an innocence about them. They are honest and good-natured people. That is due to their innocence.
Innocence is a reflection of your soul. When we are innocent we are not caught in our mind casting judgments, assuming, projecting assumptions. We are not trying to control what we think things should or ought to be. We are just completely aware of the radiance of who we are, and we are completely present with this moment. There is nothing more beautiful than innocence.
Seamus: I must question how self-aware a child really is. I don't know if they are.
Ned: It does not have to be a conscious awareness of knowing your soul. It is a being. That is the wonderful thing about aging is that if you can bring the innocence of a child into the wisdom of an elder, then you have a dynamite combination.
Seamus: Absolutely. In the book, you talk about how people typically interpret their environment and they process it through two filters, the mind and your emotions which is a common theme here. What is subtracted out of the raw experience of the moment due to those two filters?
Ned: Let us back up and talk about how we process the moment. I think this is a common understanding but maybe people do not realize how this all works. Here is a classic explanation. We process our environment like you said, through our mind and emotional state. In my book, I created a chart it shows we receive external stimuli from our environment You are sitting here, you are my external stimuli. Then we process that through our emotions and our mind.
If I am happy, I may perceive you as happier than you really are. If I'm in a panic, I may perceive you in a much different light. If the last time we met you hit me, I am going to have a real attitude about you from my memories of our last encounter. Our memories, thoughts, feelings and our mood colours what we are seeing before us. We begin to filter out what we are experiencing. This takes us away from an authentic engagement with the moment at hand.
Seamus: That is so interesting. I'm glad that you rewound that a little bit and broke that down for us. I don’t think we should assume that everyone understands how their world affects them.
Ned: If you just pulled a twenty hour shift your emotional state is going to be different than if you just slept for twenty hours. It colours your experience and it changes how you filter what is going on. What is filtered out of the raw experience is reality, the truth of what is actually happening. We can lose touch with what is when we perceive the moment through our minds and emotions.
I was giving a talk once. I was asked "What is the big deal about 'the moment,' I hear all this stuff about, 'you should be in the moment,' who cares?" On the spot, this whole teaching just popped into my head. I said, “Imagine If you were to watch a movie and you watched one minute and then you fast forwarded twenty minutes and watched another minute, fast forwarded twenty minutes? By the end of an average movie you would have only watched four to six minutes.”
If you only watch four to six minutes of any movie, how much would you really know about the movie? That is what we do when we lose touch with the moment or when our filters take hold of what is happening and colour and change it. We get sucked into our minds or our emotions and we are out of the moment.
When we only catch a minute of what is happening around us and then get caught in our mind or emotions, we blink out of the moment to experience the chatter going on in our heads. When we blink back in, we may only capture another minute of our life. If you continuously do this throughout your day, you will miss out on what is being offered to you. That kind of paints a picture of the life that I was living before I learned how to become mindful, before I learned how to authentically engage in the moment.
Seamus: Through your actions and emotions, do we augment the future? This can cause people to have a wrong perspective on you. It may take a while before they can adjust to another way and thinking and how they engage with you.
Ned: That is right.
Seamus: There is another way, to experience the moment as well and that is through our soul. What I'm curious about is how that is achieved because I think what you are about to explain, is what people are going to want to attain.
“When you step into this moment now you exit the temporal and enter into all of eternity,”
Ned: Okay. This is a large concept that may be a lot to take in. I am saying in my book that, "We can also interpret and process our environment through our soul." If we rest in our soul and allow it to process our environment, the response the soul offers may be much different than the mind assembles. Your soul has a different relationship with what is going on around you.
If we rest our attention and our focus in the soul, we have a different relationship with what is going on around us. The relationship is different because my soul, as we talked about in Session four, "My soul is made in the image, and it is God." If the essence of my soul is actually God itself, it is part of everything outside of me. Therefore, your soul relates to what we perceive as external stimuli as itself. There is a unity between us and what we are perceiving. My soul is part of all the objects in this house. If my soul comes from God, and God is everything, the totality of all that is, then, that your soul is everything including your enemies.
It reminds me of the Bhagavad- Gita, it is a classic Indian text, the story takes place on the battlefield. Krishna and Arjuna are riding into battle when Krishna pulls open his chest, and reveals the universe to Arjuna, causing Arjuna to become enlightened, After Krishna reveals himself to Arjuna, Arjuna suddenly realizes that all the people he is about to slaughter are part of his soul. Arjuna and opponents are one, they are his family, they are him. Now he has to go out and kill himself and he is in deep conflict over this.
When we process our environment through the soul, we arrest our conflict with what is going on, because we see ourselves in it. We see ourselves in everything that is happening around us. The heart cannot conflict with itself. Here is how to practice this concept. By staying anchored in your heart, you are rising above your mind and your emotions. You simply take in what is around you.
You remain present with what is happening around you all the time. Resist the urge to have a commentary in your mind. Just witness what is going on without engaging your feelings. When you notice your feelings, let them go and place your attention back on your heart.
When we are processing our environment through our heart, we allow the knowingness in our heart to rise, without coaxing it or without a commentary. When the heart reveals itself to us, we just know. That makes our life more purposeful because we start getting messages from the soul on what it is we are to do. We are surrendering in that moment to the soul and when we surrender to the soul, it gives us a wider perception of what is going on. We are able to see and recognize our purpose.
Seamus: It is a big concept, but if we look at it like the practice you just explained, it is actually very logical.
Ned: When I was trapped in my mind and out of the moment, I found myself at odds with the world. This practice removes that feeling.
Seamus: Yes, absolutely. I think we still need to mix that with critical thinking and common sense as well. For example, if we get a bad vibe off somebody and maybe they are a bad person, someone to steer clear of. They might affect you in a way and you become protective of yourself and defensive. We just apply common sense, right? Do not let it affect the moment, is that what I'm gathering?
Ned: Yes, do not let it colour or change your engagement with what needs to unfold. My engagement with my soul has changed my outlook on life. It has changed how I perceive the world.
Seamus: There is a quote too, this is in conjunction with what we are discussing here, it reads, ‘‘When you step into this moment now you exit the temporal and enter into all of eternity.'' Can you explain that?
Ned: This very moment, extends backwards and forwards, we tend to think of this moment to be this suspended temporary slice of time. The moment is the totality of all time, backwards and forwards. This moment is not a small sliver of many moments pieced together, there is only one moment, and it is here now.
This was a concept in my mind for a long time until it became my experience. I have noticed that the future reaches back into this moment now, and this moment now can reach into the past, so that we can change what happens in our past. We can change our past from this moment. Now, if that does not rattle your mind. I don't know what would.
Seamus: Well, there was an example in the book about a university study about some students taking a test.
Ned: That is right.
Seamus: I want to use that as an example.
Ned:Yes. This concept first came to me during a meditation retreat, I went to see my teacher and I sit down on his porch. And he said, ‘‘You know, time isn't what you think it is''. I said,'' Oh, really?'' he replied ''Well, what you do now can change the past''. I was like, "what? That is crazy, that is absurd.”
But he said, ''No, really, what you do now can change the past, this moment is not so temporary.'' He continued, "but don't try to figure that out, you will just drive yourself crazy. Let that go.'' It was as if he had dropped a kōan on me. (A kōan is a succinct paradoxical statement, question, or story, used in Zen practice to evoke "great doubt" to test a student's progress in Zen practice.) The next thing you know, somebody ran up. They needed the Maharishi more than he needed to explain this concept to me. I walked away scratching my head thinking how is this possible? Has he lost his marbles? This moment now cannot change the past.
For years that bounced around my mind. Then I was sitting at a second-year psychology class at Western University. On the first day the professor comes out, and says, ''You know guys, time isn't what you think it is''. Well, my ears almost touched the ceiling, because this is how Maharishi started the conversation many years ago. The professor said, ''If you guys study after the exams, you will do better during them.''
I thought Oh my goodness! I cannot believe he is saying this right now. It was blowing my mind. I have been thinking about this for years. The professor went on to talk about this study in it the students were given an exam and then told to study afterwards. A second group studied before the exam and then took the exam. The third group studied both before and after the exam. The remaining group were instructed not to study at all.
After repeated testing, the results were conclusive. Those who studied after the exam did better than the ones that did not study at all. The third group (studied before and after), had the very best test results. This empirical proof that if you study after an exam, you will do better. Therefore, the concept that this moment changes the past is a reality.
We can sort of skim over this reality because we are locked into the concept that we are moving forward in life. When life seems random and it drops things into our lap that we do not understand, we will say everything happens for a reason, and that allows us to accept what happens.
Seamus: Yes, that is very common. “Everything happens for a reason.” A lot of people say this.
Ned: I can attest that everything does happen for a reason. If you can allow this concept to live within your mind it will allow you to accept the most random things that don't fit life's unfolding scenario. The explanation for why things are happening in your life could be the future showing up early. Maybe the things happening now are to support a later reality.
Think of this Seamus, maybe the reason that I was your landlord, at one point in your life, is because we are doing this podcast.
Maybe that is why, Amanda said,'' Hey, there is a place for rent above the tattoo studio''. Maybe because we are sitting here right now is why that happened. Had we not decided to do this Podcast, maybe you would have never lived above my store. We just don't know.
Seamus: Excuse me. My head it is just like "pheew." That is crazy man, that is crazy to think that.
Ned: When I started to understand this concept, I started to experience how the future was showing up in the moment. It started to make a lot more sense. There is something to dig into here. My mind works more in a circular fashion than a linear one.
I see that life is unfolding in a circular manner. If we look at the Fibonacci sequence, it is in a spiral. Life is moving and changing, it works in a circle. There is nothing linear about life. All of life is a circular motion. Different points of that circle will show up in the present moment. We do not need to make sense of this in the mind. All we really need to do is stay in our hearts and move from one moment to the next.
Seamus: In other words, it is not necessarily our responsibility initially to understand all the concepts, but just understand the practice which is simple right? The concepts are wild. I think we are not used to hearing stuff like that.
Ned: I intentionally want to bend people's minds just to stretch them a little bit, bring some elasticity back into the mind. The mind is a wonderful tool to play with. It is a tool, we pick it up and we set it down. To cause you to think outside of the box, go from what you do not know to what you do.
Seamus: The last thing I want to touch on to conclude and summarize this last little bit of what we discussed is this. If our mind does not have the capacity to fully grasp what is happening right now, how do we experience the moment at hand?
Ned: With our heart because it is open and accepts what is. That is how we process the moment at hand. If you really want to experience the moment in its fullest and all its glory, rest in your soul and witness it from that position or go into the stillness and witness this moment that is eternally unfolding now.