Hey, Maya, welcome to UK low carb,
Hi
It's good to have you here, because you've done a few fasts with us now. So you've been a member, the wolf pack, you've been on a few of those kind of extra, we used to do a bit of a meet up on a Monday evening with a few people, we haven't done those since Christmas, you should do that. Again, I really enjoyed that. I think that's probably to get out of the habit of doing something, it becomes a bit harder to, you know, to pick it up again, we
should definitely do it. We've been in a few of those as well. And I thought it's about time, we got a proper Maya episode to find out your story. And the great thing about this is I don't really know your story. So I feel this is like a real proper exploration for me as well, which is exciting. So I've got lots of questions. I've seen many amazing photographs in your life, which makes me think a lot about you know, nutrition, about food about keto, the whole
shebang. you're someone who if it's right before COVID lived in, was it Thailand some of the year and the UK some of the year? Do you live in other parts of the world? And how long have you doing that for?
Yeah, so basically, I've not been here this long since 1997. And it's not exactly the easiest experience in my little world, I have to say. So I have I'm incredibly fortunate. And I live in the town that I was born in, and I live probably about 50 yards from where I was born. And so and it's a very small town. So it's kind of like my whole living room. The whole town is like my living room. And, and I've ended up recreating that kind of intimacy in the two other places that I also live.
So I I go to down solar in India, which is in foothills of the Himalayas, where the Dalai Lama lives. And I've had the same room in the same guesthouse for 21-22 years when I'm when I go there. Wow. And, and I also go to Thailand, and I've been based around the fasting Spa in Thailand since 2002.
I see so so you effectively spend what is it is like equal thirds? Or is it like one half your life here when
one half here and one half spread between the other two? But usually, I would go to India for one month in between, on the way to Thailand, and on the way back from Thailand?
So I see. Right. So you, yeah, if you're in Asia, you tend to? Yeah, like hop to one or the other. Okay. So how did that all happen? That I mean, when you hear someone's life is so different to yours, you just think like, wow, how did it all come about in the
first place? And what is life like living in three different countries in a year that is so exotic To me, it blows my mind, because I don't really leave this part of Blum and Cambridge here at the moment, but also, especially in COVID, let alone travel that much at the moment. So yeah, like, how did it all come about?
Um, I have hippie parents, and I live in a hippie town. So you don't have to be completely normal as a so I'm not particularly rebelling by being like this. It's kind of normal. No raised was it? It's kind of how I was raised. Yeah. So but basically, essentially, when I was about 13, or 15, or something, if I saw a picture of Tibetan monks, I burst into tears. And so I just felt
ridiculously homesick. So I would just think that when I had enough money, I'd go and see the Dalai Lama and see what this was about. So when I got to 1997, I got a little bit of money. And so I went over to India. And, and he used to do 10 days of teachings in the temple, right now to that new year, time, and also March the 10th, which is today's uprising day. So it marks a day where all the Tibetans stood up against the Chinese, and many were killed. It's a very special day there.
So I be there kind of now. And he used to do 10 days of teaching. So I'd go and sit in the temple, and listen, and I try and time being there with when he's teaching.
I say, okay, and the bus people were there from all over the world. But if this is such a significant date, there must be a lot of people that you probably see every year do you
not so much so, so. So, in India, most of my friends are local, so they're either Indians or Tibetans or Kashmiris. It's Yeah, it's less about Western people. But there was, yeah, but yeah, I mean, yeah.
So this is the Dalai Lama? No, do you say like,
definitely not?
Oh, it doesn't know it's not a you have a chat with Dr. Lama is more that you're there at an audience bit like one or two people audience years ago, there were 1000s of us. So there's, like, you know, it's like a big crowd. That's amazing, though one experience So, okay, so this life then between those countries, what sort of food would you be eating? You know, between them, I guess, the food that's local
to the people. So if it's a In a Buddhist context would be vegetarian but is that what you were used to eating when you're there?
Yeah, so I'm I was born vegetarian. I've been vegetarian whole life grown up again hippie town. We have amazing quality food, organic, anything you would want locally grown, everything shipped in whatever just a massive array of amazing produce. We've got riverford Farm two miles down the road, which is, I think Britain's largest organic farm and a well, they have farm shops in town. And we've got it's only about 8000 9000 residents in tot less.
But we've got about 50 independent cafes, and they all very proudly sources local organic free range as possible. So Wow. It's fabulous. And then in Thailand, I was in a fasting spa for most. Yeah, so best parts of the winter since 2002. And that people go there and they do seven day cleanses. Using a protocol of bentonite clay psyllium husk drinks, buckets of coffee out there. And,
okay.
And lots of people go there and go vegetarian and vegan and tautness is any amount of vegetarian or vegan food you want basically.
So you were raised being vegetarian rather than vegan but then Have you gone vegan? More recently?
No, I'm actually started eating chicken,
chicken fish, as well. I think
I yeah, I've eaten a bit. I used to eat fish about once a month anyway, so I'm trying to up it actually. And there's one stall on top of this market where they do suffer from fried chicken and my body wants it so it gets it. Yeah.
So so you you were you were vegetarian? Did you ever flirt with veganism at all? Or have you always just gone for vegetarianism?
Yeah, vegetarianism, and I used to do one month juice fasts for, so I'd be in Asia, and then obviously, I'll be absolutely craving fresh vegetables, because in India, you know, the water that things are washed in can kill you. So a salad is pretty much the most dangerous that you can eat. So there's lots of curry, but I wouldn't get any kind of fresh anything. And I'd come back here after my sort of winters away, just absolutely craving fresh
everything. So I would juice fast, basically, for a month in May
1 cow that was juice fasting, I've never done it myself. I'm pretty hungry.
No, no, not okay. Well, I think you still go into some form of ketosis. The thing for me is the longevity of any of the things I've done until this hasn't been there. So I would, I would go and have this fabulous experience of fasting of some kind of faster or another. For some reason, there's no education about ketosis in the setting where I've always been, which is extremely strange to me, now that I know about ketosis. I didn't find out about it. until two years ago,
basically. So everyone goes into ketosis when they fast, but if you don't know what it is, then when you break your fast anything, and you know, they encouraged breaking the fasting through fruit, and several days of fruit, and and then you would like introduce an egg, or the protein on day three or something. And I used to think that was fabulous. And then obviously, after a few months, from that experience, I'd be back to square one or until the next time I did some kind of
interim intervention. So this idea of keeping the flow flowing of health that is relatively recent, rather than yo yoing in and out of what seems to be very healthy, but then I have a rebound. My I'm not a vegetarian, ethically, I was just born it. So I always had been so I would crisps and chocolate and chips and fruit and it was coming out of my ears and toast and Marmite and you know, just potatoes, whatever.
But so a fairly normal diet. I just didn't eat me, which means I was actually really lacking in effect. Yeah,
I mean, this is what I find really interesting about religions and philosophies is that I don't know the answer if you help me this, is it that they generally like the Buddhist tradition is following it from a spiritual point of view as to what's clean for your body a bit like someone who's Muslim or Jewish wouldn't eat pork. That's not a nutrition argument anymore. Well, might have been 1000s of years ago because it might not have been as healthy to eat because of food
poisoning. But in these kind of traditions, is it like a spiritual dictation that fruits good for you? Or is there like some nutrition based evidence behind it that they think that you should have For instance, you know, fruit as a replacement for food when you've been fasting
not, to my knowledge anything Buddhist to be vegetarian, a perhaps more modern day well, when we have more of a Western influence on it where we think, you know, we're more thoughtful about how it will or opinionated or or ethically driven whatever our version of ethics is. But Tibetans are mountain people, they yak, that there's no veggie interesting they'd have had, they'd have been key to butter tea, you know, it matters. Yes,
yeah. But uh, yeah, actually the meat on the plains very high up little grain little sampler, so it's a barley. But they all they all eat me and, and also Buddhism in in maybe Tera vaada. Like the monks in Thailand. They go out with their arms bowl, they have to eat everything that goes in the bowl. So if someone puts
pork I've been part of that giving out the in low Luang Prabang when I was there, giving out the rice and whatnot to the monks. Yeah, me, there's a gratitude thing is that they have to get they have to eat when they're given. They can't be picky and say, I'd rather not have that.
No. And also maybe non attachment and also maybe working with whatever state you are in rather than we're very precious. As Westerners, we have the luxury of, of very strange behavior. Compared to people who don't have the luxury to, you know, the beggars can't be choosers, you know, but we were quite intellectual with how we view how we eat. We're not we're very detached from our bodies, I think.
I think so. And also our food sources. So people don't think there's anything bizarre about having food flying across the world to eat in this country, because they want to have asparagus in January. And that's just seen as completely normal, or even, not just food.
I mean, you know, giving somebody flowers which are grown in a country where they're having water crises, and yet the water being used to grow your flowers to get somebody on Valentine's Day when somebody in that country hasn't got water to drink. I mean, there are a lot of ethical questions that people in this country I think, are blind to because they don't realize the impact that they're having on the planet. Yeah. Yeah. So in that case, then what
was this transition point? And I'm really interested in this lifestyle of different countries. Anyway. Just before we get into keto, are you a good cook of different cuisines from like India and Thailand? No, you're not? No. Oh, really? See? No, we never interested in that at all is not not something you wanted to do. Because I wish I'd taken a cooking class in Thailand now when I was there, because I really I adore Thai food. But I wish I'd done a class a class on it.
I'm discovering extremely strange things about myself through this process because it's, it's so refining and I saw some that will mean somebody put up where they said if you go keto, you either become the most incredible cook ever or a lump of cheese and some olives is perfect, and I'm absolutely the love of Jesus. Love food. I am one of my weirdest aspects of fasting and, and all this is I adore watching cookery programs. And I'll I'll try and time my fasts, though that I'm in really
good ketosis like day three. And I get to sit down watch James Martin, the Saturday morning show, and it makes me so happy, but I have no desire to do it. And I don't know why. It's just interesting.
I mean, I must admit, I'm a bit of a I do love cooking anyway, however, I also love simple food. And you know, I don't I think they're a little bit more costly, but I've been having some pumpkin seeds, toasted with for the crunch with some cheese. And I think it's a lovely little milk to have is so so good. Okay, so let's talk about the transformation then.
So when you're in these countries, and you live in the UK as well, what was the moment that you had this discovery about ketosis about the keto diet,
I had a crisis, which I guess is very normal for people. So I'm 47 now, and I do before last, so like, nearly two years ago, I was in the states with my mom and my brother and I was having loads of chronic pain and I wasn't really paying attention to it because unless it's a headache, I can pretty much
ignore it. And I've got a fairly good narrative that I'm a really strong, healthy person and you know, always have been and so was ignoring it basically, and hit a crisis point and also like menstrual stuff, or started going weird. So I looked up perimenopausal and had this horrific realization I was getting older. And one of the things that said is linked is chronic pain. And it just brought it very in a space of about a week created a complete crisis as I suddenly went. Hang
on a minute. I've been doing so many weird things to avoid pain, Allied and I hadn't noticed. And I basically just, I've actually been in pain for about three years, at least three or four years and it was a, I'd have neck pain and shoulder pain, hip pain, lower back, it would go all over the place. It wasn't all the time, but it but if I'd been in a car for 20 minutes, then for three days, I probably couldn't go in the car again, because there might be micro movements are being bounced
about were horrible. And this thing about it being possibly linked to being perimenopausal, and that meant I was getting older, was awful in my brain, and then also we were in the state so our sugar, you know, the quality of food there is probably the worst I ever have is in America, because even if you're getting organic, the soil quality, the nutrient density that the quality of it, compared to Devin is it's it's markedly notable with the lack of taste, if not so, and I got into this
thing of having like, my brother loved these kind of mock or coffee with syrupy stuff in it, and I was having loads of those and so the pain got really bad. And I just thought, when I get I had this really weird or I'm gonna sound so stupid, but I had this really weird dream that told me that I needed an Outlander retreat. And I outlined that story series on Netflix and it
allowed under the spotlight.
Yeah, exactly. And so I guess that was like two days before I left America and I came back and the next day I watched every episode of Outlander, on my sofa was fasting. Because I just thought, I know water fast is the best way to reset my body. I'm like, I'll listen to I had the time. So I listened to this weird thing in my dream. So you need it. And I was like, Okay, I'll do that then.
Please ask you did like the program, Outlander. Because if you didn't like it, that'd be a really annoying dream when they Oh, seriously, I hate this program.
But what really happened was I I didn't know how long I was going to water fast for and I was being quite strict with it. So it was only it was only salt water at cider vinegar. And I got to about day seven. And by day, 470 percent of all my pain of disappeared. While I got a seven a my mum turned around and she said, I'm going to join you water fasting. And I was like, okay, because she'd never done that before. I'd only done one like that before, but she'd
never done it before. And I at this point, I'm now really worried about how we break the fast because that's obviously that's more important than how you fought over the faster completely. So I started doing a lot of research because I now knew there's like precious cargo on board. She's She's doing it now. And so I started seeing Jason funds work and Jason Fung kept talking about this thing called ketosis, which I've never
heard of before. Which if you've worked with fasters, and fasted for like 17 years or something, it was injured, isn't it? Yeah. But it was completely insane.
Yeah. not interesting, though. But you can I know exactly what you mean, there like you can have an idea of the world and everything and you do something like fasting for the benefits and whatnot. But it doesn't mean necessarily understand why your body wraps weight doesn't want to doing but when you do understand it, so empowering.
All the difference in the world. And and that's the first time I understood that day, three of the fast when all the energy comes back and pains go away, and you feel amazing. And obviously the mental clarity. I learned that was ketosis and I and I kept studying and haven't stopped like, this time later, and just basically learned that I could keep eating in a way that was 70% of the benefits of
the past through my food. Yeah. So my mum and me broke on the same day she got today, she broke on day eight, and I broke on day 16. And since then, we've both been keto. And that includes a month in India. And for me, also in Thailand, managing to keep it up as well. So
when you then traveled and I want to talk about your mum in a moment, too, so I've met her through our meetings. So I do know a little bit. But when you're traveling to those countries what how easy or hard was it to try and keep the carbs out? was it was it tricky? Was it fairly straightforward?
Um, the hardest place personally, is Italy. Because Italy seems to have the complete image of everything I would find emotionally comforting.
Yeah, does. Italian food is particularly special, isn't it?
So beautiful. So and gelato is so beautiful, but it just pulls all that childhood love of pretty cute, colorful, delightful delicious. Sweet curry does that Korean rice doesn't do that it's not my upbringing. It's not like, it doesn't have the same emotional content for me. So it's much easier for me to be keto in India, despite the rice and the bread and everything. Yeah. Then in because we can have lots of omelets, it's
missing out when you're in those countries, Rose, Italy is a sense of, Oh, I want that so badly, and I can't have it. So I'm denying myself and then you feel like you want it more.
I'm not very good at denying myself and I will fast to remedy. So when we were in India, we didn't do a lot of anything. But we did what we wanted. And we suffered. And then we came back, and we both went fasting. And we both did a three day waterfall. I
completely agree the you know, I think we've said this in texts back and forth, like fasting is medicine. And when I was ill a few weeks ago, the bug and I couldn't eat. But actually, I felt so much better after it because I thought, Okay, I think in the past, I would have thought I've not eaten something, I'm going to break myself because there's this weird idea isn't there in society that if you don't eat all the time, then you're going
to suffer in some way. But now since this last year of doing the faster the random the group, I've realized, actually, this is my body's way of saying stop, heal yourself, repair yourself. This is your medicine. And then you can really feel the benefits of fasting and afterwards, you feel like okay, I'm in a better place. I'm at the beginning of the fast I've actually healed myself without the mental
healing. Is that also saying if you found this is it helping you with clarity and the state of mind?
Yeah, and I now fast before I have something that I if I, if I'm going to need to think I like to fast a couple of days before the thing. So that I'm clear. Yeah. And so for me, there's lockdowns, a hell realm that I don't it's not something I'm dealing with particularly well. And, you know, I I'd love to think I have these brilliant Buddhist philosophies. But at the end of the day, I'm just complaining a lot about my life not being how I'd like it to be. And I'm not a natural introvert.
So yeah, the first lockdown I found my natural introvert, she's lovely and everything. But it's not my order now. Very much.
We spent too long together.
Like this, she doesn't like being asked to be here all the time. It's not her natural state. So. So yeah, it's and also I can't constant I've learned, you know, we're all learning stuff about ourselves, not me. I'm trying to write this book. I've written this book, but I can't actually write unless I'm in cafes. So doing editing, doing anything I need. So funny to say
that I've had the same revelation. Recently, I said to someone that the thing I miss the most, which sounds really lame, considering all the things we have missed out on in life, but the thing I miss the most is going with my laptop to a cafe, being around people who mean psychologically, I'm a complete Well, I'm an extrovert and everywhere, so I'd say but you know, I just need people around me. And I'm the sort of person as a teacher, I struggled
with some holidays. And as a single bloke, because I was like, I don't really seen anyone all day, I just need to talk to people, I really need that energy. And go into a cafe for me and just not not being with anybody being by myself. But having the buzz of people around me and activity, I find that really gets my you know, creative juices go and I can sit down and I can really get so much done. Whereas I'm going to when I'm in a room like I am now by myself, and it's quiet, it
kills me a little bit. It's really difficult to try and concentrate. And I try putting something on to distract myself in the quiet and I find him just listening to that and not doing my work. So it's not the same at all does it?
Totally, totally with me. And even somebody sent me you can get a cafe sound app. And so you and my mum did it for me the other day because she was miserable. She may, she said I've got a surprise. So I went up to her house, and she'd made broccoli and Stilton soup. And she had she had this all these cafe sounds You're
so lovely. really gorgeous. She's so lovely. So I want to ask you about Karen actually, because you know, you've done this together two years ago, you discovered this together. Were you close before this anyway, and has like the keto the keto journey, given another dimension to your relationship?
Yeah, definitely both. So we were close. And yes, it's added is added fabulous. That because she so her her sort of part of her like health history. She's had angina for more than 20 years, right? I live on a very steep with tightness is on a steep hill. And so she usually has to stop three times between the bottom of the hill in the middle of the hill, which is where I live and she lives at
the top of the hill. So it's kind of one, one long Street and she would have to stop three or four times because she has radiating pain. her left arm, right? So this is like stable angina. She's unmedicated. She's never taken my medicine for it until her cholesterol shot up again. So we're on just under two years of this. So basically she she went down and had her bloods done and her, her thyroid was right out of whack and her cholesterol so they put her on
statins immediately. Right? Now from my perspective, she started showing very quickly signs of mild cognitive impairment she's she was forgetting most of the important words in the sentence like the WHO THE where the wall and I Wow, I was having to fill in every everything. She was in a very good mood. She thought
this was very funny. In my mind, I'm having like a total meltdown, because I'm seeing a definite deterioration of intelligence that I'm really freaked out about and how long we talking I mean, that she started doing the drugs to understand happenings are pretty instantaneous. Well, she, she started them, and then she came off them about nine months later. So I'd say it took three months for her to start for me to start observing something really weird going on.
Right? Okay.
Um, she genuinely didn't really think there was a problem. She thought everything was funny. And I was just sitting there having to do the work of two people in every conversation getting very, very progressively more stressed. Because because there was a for me there's a crutch she did. She denies this completely. But there's a Crux point where she didn't know where Plymouth road was, which is where she's parked. for 2015 years and, and she, for her, she she says, This
isn't a big deal. For me. It's like tightness is a tiny town. It's a really, really huge deal and loads a
lot of the back of her hand, so why wouldn't she know sewing?
And at this point, I'm thinking, well, we're going to I have to start thinking about what's going to happen when this deteriorates really bad, and it totally freaked me out. Anyway, so once she started this fasting, so I've probably lost my track a bit. But once she started with the fasting, basically, and then ketosis, three weeks into that she came off her, she came off the statens on day, one of the fast she she'd also had seven years
of really bad sciatica. So she had 20, something years of angina, seven years of sciatica. So she had radiating pain down both legs. And she, when it was at its absolute worst, she could only take three steps, and then she'd have to poke some points in her leg, then she can do another three steps. And then she'd have to do the same thing again. Right. So really, really tough. And because my pain started going on day four, that's why she wants to try it.
Okay, right. So that's what we're around to it.
Yeah. So she put two banisters on her stairs, because she can only get up and down her stairs by using both supports. Again, by day four of her water fast, it went away, and it's never come back. And this is now nearly two years. Wow, that was the physical side of it. So So the other thing is about a month into this, I turned round two. And I said if you've noticed you're enjoying as much better as you went, Don't talk nonsense. And I left it and about a month later she went, I
think you might be right. And literally, if she's in ketosis, she doesn't have angina is 95 was our and when it's a condition that is untreated by anything. Therefore, you can really see when a change has made a difference. And if she starts eating a bit of sourdough bread, within about three or four days, the angina is back. But now she turns around and says I'm either going to fat faster, I'm going to fast for a few days, because because this is a medicine and it's a laser.
Oh, and it's a skill and it's a muscle that you develop. Fasting, you know, as well as the ketosis.
Yes, this is brilliant. Well, so did they actually trip you must have had what a tough experience. It was eating sugar and stuff. And we were a mess. But
but that's a year and a half down the line or, or a year and a bit down a little
one off, isn't it? I mean, you know, like you're not gonna beat yourself up about that. I guess it's just a reaffirming lesson. But that's what's causing the angina. Yeah.
Brain I'm just going to say quickly, when three weeks into this whole experience, and you know, like, you know, with the ketones it takes a while for them to build up enough to go into the brain. And three, tends to be a like anyone I talk through doing this, they start ringing me up talking very quickly. At three weeks, they've been playing like lunatics. Usually I'm very, very enthusiastic about everything,
and can't stop talking. There's like the three week in my opinion, there's a three week point where ketones get to The brain a police point,
I suppose.
How awful. And she rang me up at eight in the morning to talk about potassium levels. And it doesn't happen for either of us usually and talking and not even saying hello, but just going straight into calcium levels, it was I just sat there, okay, something's really different.
So my brain is now ticking along 100 miles an hour on better fuel than it's ever had fully in that case, or the thought of the ketones kick in. I love that. Okay, so you're saying that you will actually have got closer then. So you've been on a journey of discovery together, right? So the fasting has been massive for both of you for about the meals and things because you said you're not mastering to cooking? Is she into cooking? Or is she also the same as you
know, she's more she's more into cooking. And we live in separate houses. So it's never so we meet and spend time together every day, but but we're in the day, she doesn't really eat very much either. And so we and I mostly fast a lot in the day or do 16, eight or a bit longer. So we tend to have a little packet of like almonds and olives and a lump of cheese with us or something in case we get caught out. And we don't want to eat wherever we are. But
we want a little something. So we don't end up like thinking about stupid things like sandwiches, which we don't anyway, but we just have something with us. And she always says a pot of salt. Because she always needs salt. So but yeah, she's she's, and sort of partly my encouragement as well. But she's really getting into steak and it's really good. And it's it's palpable. The difference when she hasn't had any steak for a few days. It's really
interesting. And I'm also thinking I should start eating meat and Okay, this is
a big moment then, isn't it? Let's talk about that. Then Firstly, fought for your mom. So was she eating a vegetarian diet as well? Because you said you've always been vegetarian. Because that because she was an your father. Yeah, originally,
we were all veggies when they got when I was like 12, my mom and my brother started eating meat. And then my dad stayed veggie. So she usually would eat chicken. She's never been very good at eating. Like she would go along. She She used to smoke and drink lots of tea with lots of sugar. So she, she she wasn't very, she's like, what's happened in the last year and a half is completely different to the rest of life.
So she really not when we were kids, when we were kids, she was a really good cook and everything. But when all the family dynamics shifted, many dynamics shifted. But now he is actually really clearly looking after her body in a way that she never has. And it's fascinating to see from the outside.
Wow. And then for yourself, then you said that you're considering meat now. So can you tell me about that journey? Because once you know about ketosis and about the keto diet and whatnot, you said, you know, you tried to experiment a little bit? So you said you're eating fish once a month? That was that the first thing you started from vegetarianism? Or you Germany doing that now? And again?
No, I was generally so pescatarian. So I basically, like mostly vege and then Id fish about once a month.
Okay.
So now I fish probably three times a week,
right?
And I've got a weird thing that happened, which I can go on about if you'd like or not. If you'd like, you'd know I want
to hear this. I find it really fascinating. It's really different to me. And I find that it's always interesting to learn about. I hadn't stories,
I had a bike crash in 2008. And I came off a scooter. And I hit my head and that was in Devon. And in Thailand, I'd be dead because I never used to wear how I was gonna ask you where it was because I know of people who have had accidents in other countries. And it's been a very different experience. Yeah. So I looked to all intents and purposes, undamaged that actually I'd hit my brain. But I never stayed in hospital. I came out within a few hours, and I
never had tests. But what I did have was no short term memory for eight years. 2008 until about four years ago, I whenever I met anybody, I would have to tell them I have I might not have a clue who they were next time I met them. And
but there's no like medical input at this point. I mean, you said your article for a brief period, did the GP or anyone pick up on this? I
didn't know I didn't. I didn't know I was wrong. for about six months. I thought everything was completely fine. And about six months and I suddenly went Hang on a minute. I got very angry for about six months and I used to punch my father when I saw and I thought this was completely normal. And then about six months in I suddenly went Hang on a minute. I never used to think this before my crash and here's what
Is your dad thinking like, this isn't normal? What have I done?
Poor bloke? Yeah. Anyway, pacifist, very gentle man.
Um, luckily,
so, so I didn't know, I think we've mild brain damage you don't know. And it's very obvious to anybody else except
to say that is because it's mild. So you're functioning in every way, normally from the outside. But it's just a one thing that's not quite in tune as you used to be before.
And also, I wasn't very damaged in the accident. So I kind of broke my I broke my shoulder or I broke my hand or something. But it was it was minimal. And it only needed a bit of a splint because it was just a little. It's like an I it was a impact crash rather than a scrape along the floor crash. So damage, but I wasn't very damaged. And certainly not enough that anybody would have thought I was really messy. Yeah, my head, my head was
wrong. And what ended up happening, it took me two years to have some sense of humor about it, and to work out how to cope with being like that. So I used to tell anyone I met, if I'd met you, and we talked for five hours, and then I met you four days later, I'd have no clue we'd ever met. I'd know nothing about I basically, I used to take photos of everything, because it was the only thing that proved that I was there for a pretty
vulnerable day. And I mean things like transactions of money, you wouldn't have a memory of doing it. Or, you know, somebody could con you out of money.
very strangely, I became better at numbers. And I was very good at equipment and times. And I would never forget those but people I couldn't remember, which I guess is
probably the part of the brain that you're been, you know, they've been damaged, they're dealt with that particular element, whereas the other parts working fine. The brands work a bit harder.
Yeah. And also, I'm an acupuncturist, so I wouldn't know my patient, but as soon as they said anything about their case history, I would know their whole case history. Wow. It's an extremely strange experience. It was an extremely strange experience. And essentially, is an incredible thing.
The brain is really an interesting thing to study, isn't it? I find it fascinating.
What changed was about four years ago, I was at this bar in Thailand, where where I was wintering, and one of the ladies there started talking about going from being a vegan or a vegetarian into eating meat. And the more she was talking about how she felt eating meat, the more my whole being started looking at her going, I want that feeling. And now I've been veggie my whole life. And I ordered my first
meat dish at 42. Well in a rafting spa, where people don't eat and go vegan, by when I like, I'd like garlic pepper, stir fried chicken, please. The dish and for two months, I ate it 23 times and my short term memory came back.
Wow, what a crazy difference that is incredible.
And then I stopped craving it never ate it again until about six months ago where I started craving it again.
So it was almost like a medicine that your body just knew what is right for it and said, Look, we need to make the protein the fats when we don't know what it is, but the body knows. I honestly though it's true. I think your body doesn't know what it needs. I think it tells us all the time.
Yeah. And interestingly, I would eat it on a I would put it was only one dish I wanted garlic, pepper stir fried chicken, and I put it on top of a load of like green mango sometimes salads or green mango chili papaya. Not not sweet, not sweet at all really unripe and then I put a load of olive oil over it. Well now this is not this is not how I have ever eaten or would ever thought to eat better. You knew something didn't your body was telling you something there.
Yeah, that is really really clear. I love that story. And I was gonna ask you about your your motorcycle accidents. I need to tell me about that previously. So we You said you started six months ago going again for a meat dish? What was it that what clicked in you that at that point? And what was that to heal the thing?
I mean, it's just hilarious from a you know, I kind of have an opinion about myself. And then my body goes and does it chooses its own completely its own decision. And I just sit there going, whatever you want to do. No, I'm not. Anyway, so it's trying to do it again at the moment and I'm having quite a bit about it. But basically tartness market has this amazing. It's an amazing market and we have loads of good food stores and good cheeses and good olives and it's just
fabulous. And there were these guys who are doing this stuff, right? They're doing this stuff from chicken that they're frying in the oil that they have the artichoke hearts in and stuff like that. So it's good oil and I just My body just went I'm having that now and I went up and I just went Can I have a box of chicken please no salad no anything with it no sauce no nothing and I sat on the side of the road and I ate it and went back and got a second box when well that was unexpected
yeah love that again though your your body obviously needed it didn't it and that's why you said you're thinking about going further into meat then so what is this because you're now saying your mother is getting results or she's feeling better on steak and you're thinking you want to try it and if you do, is there an emotional connection with not eating steak? Because I imagine I do imagine I can be completely wrong here that you know people who are going for vegetarianism
might try fish first. Then chicken then read me there just seems to be the I
cope with the idea of red meat? I would I would like to try eating meat for a month Yeah, there is no way I'm going carnivore that is like my brain is cannot cope with that
quite extreme from where you're coming from as
that is wait. That's way beyond my emotional mental, whatever. But But the moment, you know, called creep is a thing. Yeah. So I think cortisol interrupting how well ketosis work works is a thing. This this third lockdown has been beyond stressful for me and so like not sleeping. There are so many things against me just riding it out well. And though I haven't been eating loads of carbs, but I'm definitely processing what I am eating. I'm much more keeping it in rather than everything
kind of flowing nicely. And I think what I'll do is I'll just make sure it's sort of eggs, fish chicken as much as possible and cut out all my little extra cheese. I've been eating shedloads cheese, and that's if I'm free, viciously guilt free, beyond delicious, utterly wonderful cakes.
Thank you and thank you. Thank you for people who have sent our way as well. I feel like I like dotnet has become a bit of a hub for us. If I'm in a cafe. I'm gonna have to open a branch there I think because you know, yeah.
So yeah, I think I might have to do a month without all my high calorie dense delicious
I think that's right. I think you know what, you have to do that sometimes don't you? So I've been having at the moment bone broth soup, which I well bone broth USA, which in my head it has been so such different experience the reality. I really thought that this would be some sort of water with nothing in it. I don't know
why. But actually the nutrition value in it's ridiculous I've been making with oxtail, which my local butcher in Tesco, bizarrely it's got and I want to Okay, this is gonna sound disgusting, but when I took it out, and it's cold, it looks like dog food because it's got so much gelatin and, and fat in it, and you heat it up. And then I put some Worcestershire sauce in it. And it's just the most gorgeous meal ever. It's beautiful. And I think I can just I just feel like it's good
thing to eat. And it's, it's good for me and I love having it. And it's really cheap as well. That's the other thing with good keto food. It doesn't have to be mad expensive, does it with carbs are always overpriced what they are, because they're so cheap to make. You can actually have some really good feeling keto meals, and it doesn't break the bank. I love that about keto, you know, because you just don't feel as hungry. So, that journey towards meat, then there's going to be
quite a big step for you. Right? I mean, to have like, you know, cow, pig or lamb.
I don't think that I'll do that. Honestly, I don't know that I will do that. But I might just really make sure that chicken and fish is my staple. Yeah, for me is like, that is so not what I've been like my whole life. Yes, yeah. And also I I noticed when I started eating that chicken off the market, so it's changed. So the first year of keto was like 70% fat, and I just was like loving the fats. And then and then a year, my body went, I prefer more protein
and it felt more lean. And I've never been someone who feels lean in the slightest, but my body composition started to change. And I prefer it so I'm going to experiment a bit more with the keto being more protein based than fat based or I naturally began to do that anyway.
Yeah, yeah, well, it does sound like I can imagine the protein was probably part of the thing your body wanted when you're trying to heal yourself. You can imagine that
area like and I'm not a vegetarian and meats and lentils. I don't like lentils, you know, I haven't ever cared about protein ever. So I i'm sure I've no doubt I've always been protein deficient.
I think there's a lot Like that, and I just, you know, I don't know what your thoughts on this are but when I see people talking about veganism as healthy, I just think what What a ridiculous thing to say. You could do veganism in a healthier way. I do believe that but he would also be incredibly unhealthy. And because of that brand, veganism does not mean healthy either way, actually, it can be very easy to be a very
bad for your diet. And I don't see, well, I personally don't think it's sustainable throughout the whole of somebody's life to veganism without being depleted of something in some way. Because I just think that's the way it is.
It's I if I talk about vegans as a thing, then I'm in danger of offending quite a few people. But as a thing as a mental state, I worry greatly about the kind of fascistic view of equating the planet with a massive advertising campaign between the people who sell grains and packaged foods who are absolutely reveling in. This is plant based, and it being an absolute Sham for help out that whole total confusion of stuff
together. And I do wonder if that lack of you know, like, I'm benefiting from eating a bit of chicken, my brain is something that now works better than it ever worked because I have increased fat, and I've increased protein and I've decreased massively my vegetable and fruit consumption from someone who only ever ate huge bowls of salad with Yeah, but loads of good stuff in it. But my desire now for roughage is once every 10 days or once a week and it used to be my every single day
for difference. That's huge steps you've made there then.
And so my observation of the people who are vegan and angry and vegan, and opinionated is I think I'm obviously not being PC about it, but I think it's partly a mental or brain imbalance that people are not getting the nutrients they need. And so having to have, you know, like I have to have so much more food as a carbohydrate eater because the nutrient density is so like little compared to fats and protein. Yep. And I think the brain is it desperately
wants to get what it needs. So you know, if it makes you eat 10 tons of fruit to get the tiny thing it needs because the sun for water and sugar and fruit and there's so little nutrients compared to someone who eats us a like ethics aside, I can't lie about the fact that liver is the most nutrient dense You know, one of the most nutrient dense foods you can have in a blueberry just isn't by comparison. Yeah, completely. Right. And every, every living my life, you know, so yeah,
but look at evolution, you know, the animals are eating that are herbivore like elephants and cows and whatnot. They have huge digestive tracts, and they have to be eating continuously, just about to break down as much as they can from their food. Whereas the animals
anyway, like cows have got four stomachs. They turn in fat and digest the fat.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then, you know, you look at like an animal like a lion or a tiger that hunts every a few days. And then fast in between, because it doesn't have to do is get the nutrient rich food from its protein source. Yeah, I think you're totally right. And I think it's really exciting because I just think that you're still on that journey, which is really interesting. There'll be interested in a year or two, where you are and what you've
done. And I think that's really incredible, because you know, what, it took a lot of bravery to also understand that, you know, you had to try and learn what your body wanted and, and try to respond to that, because you must have a lot of inbuilt ideas about health and vegetarianism, which are probably based on hearsay rather than attritional evidence. And a lot of people are like that,
aren't they? You know, when you talk to somebody who's vegan, very rarely do they tell you the actual science behind why it's good for you, but rather, it's a belief system, which is, which is not really nutrition based. It might be environmental based, or might be, you know, another type of science, but it's very rarely nutrition based. And I think that's, that's really brave. You actually asked that question.
It's definitely an interesting process. I can take Yeah, I can really have a funny story.
Yeah, go for it. Not funny.
Funny, tragic.
Oh, wow. Okay.
I the fasting spa that I used to work at had a new manager who's a fruitarian. And this is when I was kind of beginning of keto stuff. And I was very enthusiastic about all of this, which I still completely AM. So I don't know why I'm pretending I'm less so. But anyway, I was very excited and somebody and he very proudly put up that he had taken a diabetic person and He fasted them and he broken them, help them break their fast with fruit. And my whole brain just went, Oh my god, that person
could die. That's quite
strong. But rush that yeah.
So I sent him a message saying could try avocados. Yeah, it's not to steak really fast, but you can try avocados you could try fat you could try anything other than fruit for a diabetic. Yeah, master the fence at this. And at the same time someone had sent me a newspaper article from Paignton zoo, which is about six miles down the road, that they had weaned their primate section off fruit. Because modern day fruit is so much sweeter than the fruit they should be eating that they
will get diabetes and urges. Well, Brian has been turned away from monkeys and zoos now. And chimp primates. Yeah,
yeah, they've even this is this is our local zoo. They've even wean them off starchy veggies as well, and basically got them on greens. And they their comment was, the coats have really improved, and they're no longer angry and don't show signs of neurotic behavior. While I forward the best news to their staff. He'll find this really interesting. Anyway, I got banned.
He'll say do you think gonna say I don't. I can see how that can happen, though. You're in the right. You're saying evidence. But clearly, you know that there's something going on there that's policed based on belief, isn't it? There's no evidence as to why they're doing that.
That's, that's dangerous, isn't it really is really, you know, take us on on argument take us on on evidence based arguments, but don't just come up with a belief system and say it's better, because I believe that I'm offended if you have a difference of opinion. That's ridiculous. But that's the world we live in. I think humans always been this way. But think the world The world is you know, within a sophisticated, but
we're quite often not. Now, Maya, just want to say, I know this is not so good for a podcast, but for anyone who might follow you on Instagram. Or if you're on Instagram actually makes Facebook I'm thinking a lot but anyone who follows you online will know this statue behind you because I've seen it. Can you tell us about this piece of artwork you've been working on? Because he watched the video saying this? Okay, he's not holding up a hand. I hope it's a some sort of clay hand. You work in this
amazing statue. This has been your project over lockdown, hasn't it?
Yeah. Basically, I've never sculpted. So I did a two week portrait, sorry, two day portrait course about three years ago. And it just happened that at the beginning of the first lockdown, I saw a lady who's a sculptor did a five minute I'm in my studio sculpting and I just thought I'm going to do that. So I've just been removed to absolute chaos. And, and I'm having a go and it's quite processed because I'm totally unskilled. So it's,
it's incredible detail.
She looks fabulous. But things like I put the I don't know how to do an armature. So I put the arms on and they've consequently fallen off because they're far too heavy to stay on. So now the sculpture with no arms, but her arms can handily but pardon the pun.
So how on earth you can attach them or do you not know is there like
bonds. So until next time, I'll have to try and learn how to do an armature for the next one. Maybe
the arms have to be like a bit more supported by the trunk. So they should have to have a handle stomach or something. I don't know. That's how they do it.
I have a mouth because we're all muzzled at the moment. And she has no arms because she's helpless. It is now a total take on this year.
This is a new so she's exposed to the world. She hasn't got a cover. Yeah, like that. Very clever. Okay, so there you go. So check that out. And you're on Facebook. Is that right? Is that the best way?
Facebook's Maya Sutherland so it's just my name. And Instagrams for my jewelry. I'm actually technically a jeweler. But this this year, I'm one of the 3 million excluded and I make jewelry from black diamonds, emeralds, gold, and 2000 year old beads when I can get them in India. Oh my goodness. The beads. I've got beads which they were drilled and worn one BC to 100 ad. And wow, I love that. And I put them with black diamonds which of diamonds but black modern day and 18 karat gold and emeralds
and rubies. And
wow, incredible. So hopefully we'll get to that soon to rebind Maya, and that's really lovely. Now before we finish today, I just want to ask you that sort of more recent part of your journey because you've told me before about your work with the public health collaboration because you're a newly ish minted ambassador for the phc. So when was it you you joined them as an ambassador did your training and also I know lockdown has happened? So that's probably changed things
somewhat. But what was your plan locally with regards to your work for the phc
Yeah. So it is disappointing. In one way, it's disappointing in the way it could have gone. It's disappointing. So at the same time as me join, joining the public health collaboration, like the same day as I have my interview with Sam, someone here who is a What are they called the people who liaise between doctors and patients. My brainwork. Social prescriber says prescriber
Yes, the only Lester he does.
The same day, I got an email from the social prescriber who I know who said, I got this idea can you help? And so it turns out that he, he wanted with our local GP wanted me to help with a pre diabetic group of patients. So there was a lot of excitement about that, and planning. And it was meant to start a little bit earlier than Jan, January, but January officially, and unfortunately, you know, the whole world is
vaccination insane. And so people's actual health that is, you know, going to make them susceptible to COVID-19, if not everything else, is not given the capacity. And he said, he said that, unfortunately, the the patients who he was going to get to me are way too old for zoom and all this onto one thing, and it would have been very different. Yeah. So that's a shame. And there were, you know, there were a few people that I could have worked with.
So at the moment, that's just not happening, but it
will happen. You know, it's just, it's just on pause at the moment, and it will happen, you know,
privately, you know, I've got a friend of mine who I talked to, and she's no longer diabetic, after three months, another guy who's whose wife got him to contact me and really looked at his sugar is the first person who's ever showed me their actual blood sugar, he's diabetic, and his sugars were all over the place. It's the first person who's just sent me their list of numbers. And I looked at it and I went, Oh, my God, he went low carb that day.
So clear,
erotical over a radical over normal, you know, normal, normal, and he's blown away by it. I mean, it's fabulous. So it that it works is fabulous. I put up a our local topless Facebook page with the whole COVID thing.
You know, as everyone on social media knows, people have gone incredibly toxic with social media, the the platform to sit and vent at someone who doesn't wear a mask how you wear a mask or doesn't like about, you know, just the whole polarization of humanity gets played out on these, Facebook, Twitter and whatever conversations. And so our little tautness site got very toxic, so I've come off it, but just as it you know, one person said, I've been in a coma for COVID. And he was probably
20 stone or something. And I just thought, you know, it's bloody awful, you've been sick, and it's bloody awful. Obesity is one of the main contributors to a bad viral reaction. So I just put a thing up just said, if anyone wants, free consultation, or whatever, and I've got four people just immediately, it's good. And that's making a difference.
To those four people, I honestly believe though, the world the world works is one person can have an impact on a few people that can have an impact on more people. And actually, you know, no one person is is so important that they affect everybody. But we all individually have a huge impact on each other. And I think change happens that way sometimes. And I honestly believe grassroot change is also
the most effective as well. So if you're able to make it from the grassroots up, it will have way more impact than if you're trying to change things on policy down point of view.
But also we have the GP, then at all the GPS, actually in my local practice, you know, they they are interested and they want to implement and they they said, you know, we're very rare because nobody offers pre diabetics, anything pre diabetics, they get the care once they're diabetics.
Yeah. And the expense kicks in at that point, too. So let's save the expense and the misery for those people based by helping them beforehand. Yeah.
So it's an unfortunate set of circumstances, but the willingness is there, which is happiness, but
well, Maya, it's been really lovely having this conversation. I feel like I know you so much better from that and so many questions I had, which overfill? Yeah, I mean, your life is so exotic. It's amazing. I just hope that this time next year, you're not here. And you're like enjoying yourself with die llama going through on
the 10th of March next year. So remember this 10th of March next year, you'll be sat there having the talk listening to those wise words and you feel like you're free again, to live the life you want to live. Let's hope
it hope so.
I say where's the statue? Our prison garden. I'm out of it.
I'm Next year, can it please be before that?
Yeah, hopefully before hopefully before, he reflected on a year over there, so that'd be amazing. But thank you so much for sharing your story and like you're saying the best way to collect news on Facebook right so what's your name on Facebook and which groups are you in?
It's Maya and ay ay ay ay ay. and then Sutherland su th er ma n d. n o groups. You can just if anyone wants to contact me, they're welcome to
Yeah, great actually on the UK Low Carb group think, aren't you? Yep. So you've been part of the Wolfpack and hopefully we'll be again i'm sure with your fasting experience would be very good for a mentor to have alongside as you're fasting. So Excellent. Well, have a great day. And yeah, and yeah, thank you for coming on the show today. It's been great.