None. Sadie Morrell, thank you for joining me in the trenches. Thank, thank you for having me. I say trenches, obviously metaphorically, but there is an information war. I mean particularly around milk. I mean, just about everywhere you go in the world, you cannot drink unpasteurized milk. Well, not in the states. We've been working on this for 25 years. So the milk is regulated by the states, not the federal
government. So what we've been doing is working on the state level to liberalise the laws. We have a website, realmilk.com, and the when we started there were about 30 sources of raw milk in America and now there's about 5000. So it's very available in America now. In other parts of the world, it just depends. But we also list, we list sources in Europe and other places. What is your background? I'm an English major, of course it totally qualifies me for what I'm doing.
Actually, actually, actually, no, wait, hold on. That does qualify you because I think people who get stuck into the academic paradigms get, they get restricted by the lanes in which they are put That's. Right. Well, you know, the other English major who's made a name for himself is Joel Salatin, the famous farmer. So I like to say that neither of us is qualified for what we do. But no. But I'm a writer and I wrote a book called Nourishing Traditions that sold very well,
and it's been quite influential. And I've written other books besides. But Nourishing Traditions was what? That was the first volley in this war against the low fat paradigm, the the pasteurised milk paradigm. Well, let's just start with the absolute basics, because somebody told me recently that just drinking cow's milk as a whole is not a good idea. You know what, Jeremy? I've been around a long time and I have yet to see a person turn into a cow by drinking cow.
When we look, and of course we look at the work of Weston Price, and the healthiest people that he studied were those who had herds, and we're drinking raw cow's milk or raw goat's milk. We have the example in the Scandinavia of the people who drink reindeer milk. They're very healthy. We have the Mongolians who drink
mare's milk. We have people in Africa who drink camel's milk all over the world, for thousands of years, people have drunk the milk of various species of animals and they're healthier for it because milk is such a complete food. I was in China a few months ago and I drank camel's milk and it wasn't too bad. Yeah, camel's milk is saltier than other milks, which I think is kind of interesting. Yes, but it wasn't too bad. I won't drink it and on purpose.
Well, cow's milk is just so absolutely delicious when the cows are eating grass and when the and when it's full fat, it's just, it's like an elixir. But then, Saddy, why is there a war on unpasteurized milk? Well, it started back in the 1800s and we really didn't have a problem with the milk at that time. The milk in New York and the other cities was filthy. It was coming from confinement dairies in the cities who and the cows were eating the swill
from whiskey production. So they're very poorly nourished. And they actually added chalk to the milk to make it look white. And the death rate among children in these cities was 50%. Now wasn't only the fault of the milk. There were no sewers. There's no clean water. I mean, the cities were just squalid. The festering heaps of horse and mule manure. And all of this was called the milk problem. It was all blamed on the milk and certainly it was partly due
to the milk. And eventually we got things cleaned up. You know, the car replaced the horse and they put sewers in and they cleaned up the water and, and we got refrigeration and we set up a system of bringing clean milk from the countryside into the cities and the death rate went down. But then pasteurisation came along as a supposed solution to this and the the problem had
already been solved. But the people could see the monopolist could see a way of monopolising and controlling the sale of milk by pasteurising because it forced the farmers to sell their milk to the dairy company by law and they could no longer set their price and and the dairy companies were the ones making the profit on the milk. I'm very glad that you are in line with Weston Price because Weston Price has done incredible work over the years. Well, so Weston Price. He died in 1948.
The. Year. Well, I mean the whole foundation. Oh, and the foundation? We set up the foundation in in 2000 to carry on his legacy because really, he's the one who's shown us what kind of diet supports true health in people. Yeah, he was a dentist, wasn't he? Pardon me. He was a dentist, wasn't he? He was a dentist and for 10 years he went to different parts of the globe looking for truly isolated, what do you call
primitive people? And he found fourteen groups that had superb health, no cavities, broad faces, naturally straight teeth, robust physiques, ease of childbirth in the women and absence of chronic disease. So these people don't exist anymore and it's certainly not true of our society. But then the question is, well, what were these people eating? And the diets were different everywhere. Some of them did have milk, of
course, it was raw milk. But the Eskimos and the South Sea Islanders, they didn't have milk, but they were equally healthy. The cultures that didn't have milk made a point of eating bones. They crushed up the bones of small animals or fish or birds and added the crushed bones to their food to get calcium.
The the the common denominator in all of these diets was that they were very high in minerals and very high in what we call the fat soluble vitamins AD and K. And where do we get those vitamins in all the foods we're being told not to eat the eggs and the yolks of the eggs with butter, organ meats. Blood was a very good source of these nutrients. And I see a little grimace there, but you know, a blood sausage is fixture in European diets ever it was. So it's much.
Easier, but I think I think I'll I'll be OK with the steak and and and saturated fat. Well, but The thing is, The thing is the steak is fine and if you always want to eat meat with the fat, but you're not going to get your fat soluble vitamins from the steak, you need to eat liver once a week, just like our ancestors did to get the vitamin A. Yeah. I mean what you're touching on there is sort of ketogenic, low carbohydrate, almost almost
carnivore type diet. Well, not the way it's practised today. And these, they don't understand the importance of the organ meats and the fats. And you do need carbs. There were very few diets that didn't have carbs. The ones that didn't have carbs, 80% of calories were from fat. That's a little bit hard to do, but we need carbs for thyroid function. So it's not it's it's low carb, but it's not no carb. What's the name of that? Is it a Swedish?
Swedish explorer about 100 years ago who went and lived with the Eskimos. Stefansen, Stefansen. Yeah, that's him. Yeah. Incredible results. Yeah, but he's stressed how important the fat was. And he, he said that when traditional cultures kill, like kill the Buffalo, OK, the first thing they did was eat the brain, the liver, the marrow, which is 90% fat, and the tongue.
Then they they kept some of the lean meat, but most of it that was just thrown away to the dogs and they kept all the fat. So on an old Buffalo you'd have 50 lbs of fat and then the meat was smoked or dried, preserved in some way, and they always ate the meat with the fat. So just for clarity, raw and unpasteurized milk are the same thing. That's right. But but unpasteurized comes from Louis Pasteur, who hated germs. Yes, right. Well, he was. He was quite a a manipulator
actually. And a fraud is, is what you're wanting to say. Yeah. Well, I don't say fraud, but he was very political and he was determined to get his view out there. And we is very, there's quite a bit of evidence that he cheated on some of his studies and he was out to smell vaccine. Yeah. He, he saw a lot of money in it. Yeah. His counterpart at the time, I think, was Antonio Bechamp. Who? Yeah, who I've whose work I've read and I've find extremely
persuasive. Who said that we have these microzymes, the tiny, tiny little specks, and they're sort of potential life forms. And then, depending on the circumstances, they will turn into, you know, different types of bacteria. But now you've said that the CDC and the FDA consider raw milk the enemy. But to what end? I mean, how do they gain from from demonising it in? The pockets of the dairy industry, the dairy industry, it's huge, it's very powerful.
The executives earn salaries in the 1,000,000 while the farmers are going out of business. And in the last 20 years they have not raised the prices that they're paying the farmer. So the farmer's getting the same price for his milk that he got in World War 2 and he can't make World War Two. He he's getting $1.50 a gallon. I've heard prices as low as $0.65 a gallon for the farmers and they can't, they can't survive and the farms are going out of business.
I think it's the rate of 16 per week. And it's just decimated the Country Life, the rural life in America. So what these farmers learn or realise is they can they can actually make a decent living selling raw milk and many have transitioned to raw milk. So here in South Africa it's still illegal to sell raw milk. Everything has to be pasteurised. But you can, you can get around it by going to say a farmer and you say look, it's it's for animals.
And then they'll sell it to you or even give it to you. Yeah, so I have a farm here in Maryland and we sell milk for dogs and cats. And quote unquote. There are a lot of cats, dogs and cats around here because it's our best seller, you know, people are lined up for it. And we have a number of states like that, New Jersey, I think Florida, North Carolina. So there's a few states where that loophole is definitely being used. Now, I've been told my whole life that raw milk is bad for
you. Well, you've been told it's dangerous and it'll kill you. So we have a gal who looked very, very carefully at all the statistics. And since 2000, with probably 10 to 20 million people drinking raw milk, there may have been 2 deaths. One of these deaths I don't think existed at all, and the other death I think was due to something else, but they blame it on raw milk. So they say there's been two deaths, but there's been 5 or 6 deaths from pasteurised milk.
So it's not like in pasteurised milk, it's completely safe either. But what is the argument against raw milk? What is the actual argument? Well. That it's dangerous, that it'll kill you, that it's. No, but like, why? Why what? Like what's in it that's going to kill you? These bacteria in it and the bacteria are dangerous and they'll kill you.
But The thing is, well, we produce raw milk that has no bacteria in it. It's very possible to do it in a clean way, but even if it does have bacteria in it, they're not necessarily pathogenic bacteria. And we know now that you need good bacteria in the gut, and the bacteria in raw milk help populate the gut with the good bacteria. So it's all based on an outdated paradigm that bacteria are bad. And we now know that you can't live without bacteria.
But the the bureaucrats are stuck in their old beliefs, I guess. But is it actually evidence that the bacteria in raw milk is toxic? No, I mean, bacteria can turn toxic. Let's just say the milk is extracted in very, very unsanitary conditions and the milk could turn to the bacteria could turn toxic. But, and that's why you need to know what you're doing when you're milking cows. You know, not everyone is qualified to, to be a dairy
farmer. Not, not everybody has that kind of personality to be very meticulous. But we have plenty of unregulated dairies in this country that are producing perfectly good milk. And nobody's getting sick, and nobody's certainly nobody's dying. OK but the counter argument might be then. OK, but then do people get sick from pasteurised milk? Yes, and they do. In fact we had a case, it was in 2007.
There were three deaths from milk that had been completely, perfectly pasteurised and there were three deaths and a lot of people sick. And you know the other thing, Jeremy, which they never tell you, the largest outbreak of foodborne illness in history took place in 1980, four, 1985, and it was from a dairy that was pasteurising the milk it was from. Pasteurising really, What happened? And it was hundreds of thousands
of people got sick. I don't know if there were any deaths, but oh, they just get carried on and maybe looked at some of the sanitary procedures or something. But the pasteurisation did not protect the public. The process of pasteurising milk though, does it also reduce the nutritional value? Yes, and this is what we've been saying and we know that all the enzymes are killed when you pasteurise milk and every vitamin and mineral in milk.
And of course, it's a very nutrient dense food, has a enzyme that attaches to it and ensures complete assimilation because milk is designed for a baby that does not have a digestive system that's fully online yet. So those enzymes have to be there. And that that's what makes milk so good for people with compromised digestion, people who are, you know, have a lot of health problems, low energy because all the nutrients are absorbed. Now you've got two things going
on here. You've got pasteurisation, the old type of pasteurisation, which was a slow heating to 160° and that's bad, but it's not nearly as bad as what they do today, which is ultra high temperature or high temperature pasteurisation. That is a rapid heating pass. Super heated stainless steel plates. It takes the milk to 280°F. That is so hot that not only is it destroyed the enzymes, it's destroyed all the proteins in the milk and that's where you get allergies, you get
anaphylactic shock. They've been there are 20 to 30 deaths per year from anaphylactic shock to milk. And that's because these proteins are foreign proteins for the body. And you know, there's the body really doesn't have a very good way of dealing with them. So if I'm correct, the process of pasteurisation it's basically just heating up the milk and then cooling it down quickly? Well, it's either heating it up slowly or heating up very
rapidly and then cooling down. But it's the heating, it's not the cooling that's the problem. Which kills everything. Yeah, which really kills everything and that's why milk drinking is associated with all these problems, allergies, asthma, respiratory disease and digestive disorders. And of course, the parents take the children off of milk. They say my kids allergic to milk. Well, they are. They're allergic to pasteurised
milk. But very often they find that the children can tolerate raw milk beautifully and thrive on it. Well our kid is 17 months old and he's had raw milk and he was fine. And he also had breast milk, right? Yes, He's never actually he's Yeah, well, he's never had formula. Yeah, only breast milk. And he's thriving, right? He's never been sick. Yeah, I have 5 grandchildren all brought up in raw milk and they've never been sick. Oh, and unvaccinated, I might add. Yeah, same with me.
Unvaccinated raw milk, cod liver oil, Those are the three. That's the triumvirate for making sure that you have healthy kids. And it's, you know, they're much healthier than I was. They, they don't have allergies, they don't have asthma, they're just perfectly normal, healthy children. And that is the, the, the right of a child is to be healthy like that. You just know how have to know how to do it.
And then to make matters worse, not only is the milk pasteurised, but then they mark it hard, low fat or even skim milk. Yeah, I mean, pasteurised low fat milk is a poison, absolute poison, because it will not only not give you the vitamin A you need, but it will deplete you of vitamin A you're getting from other foods.
How will it do that? Well, when you need, when you eat protein, the body releases vitamin A from the liver because you need vitamin A to process the protein, to assimilate the protein. So I'm very concerned about these high protein diets that don't have enough fat in them, that don't have cod liver oil, where they're not eating liver, they're not getting vitamin A, not eating butter. And that's that's the danger I think of these carnivore diets.
They really don't understand how traditional cultures ate meat. They threw most of the meat away in an animal and ate the fat in the organ meats. And I, I know it's, it's hard for us because we don't have the taste for that. It's actually easier in Europe to do this because there's a lot of liver sandwiches, liver Pate, blood sausage and all these nutrient dense foods if you'll eat them, you know, but we don't have those things in the States. So you have to try harder.
Yeah, that gentleman who lived with the Eskimos that we spoke about, he only ate, I think seal meat and and basically fish and then some vegetables once here and there because of, you know, the the conditions were not conducive to to, to, to plants. And he was perfectly healthy, but he had a berries. They had berries in the summer. Big treat. But when you say seal, I mean the seal, of course, is a very savvy animal. And they ate the fat, seal fat.
And it was also the highest food in vitamin A that Doctor Price ever tested. So it's very rich in vitamin A. The problem is that people don't want to eat a cute animal. They don't want to eat what? A cute animal. A cute animal. Yeah, I mean a seal. The seal's cute. I. Don't know I I wouldn't want to eat a cat or a dog but. I can. I think I could. Eat a seal. But you said that most of the nutrients get lost in the pasteurising pasteurisation
process. But I mean, not only do they get lost, they get completely destroyed. Well the enzymes get destroyed and some of the nutrients are destroyed. B2 riboflavin is destroyed. Vitamin C is completely destroyed. Now, when you think of it, someone. B12. What? B12 also. B12B6 So some really key nutrients are completely destroyed, others are diminished. But let's just think of somebody driving camels across the desert. The vitamin C in the milk is what's going to keep them from
getting scurvy. Yeah, not eating oranges. Yeah, I mean it's, you're getting the all the vitamins that were in the grass or in the foliage that they ate. We, we can't digest leaves like those kind of leaves, we can't digest grass. But the animals have 3 or 4 stomachs and they do it for us and they give us this beautiful, delicious, I don't know, concoction of grass in the milk with, with fat, with fat so that you are digesting the protein.
Sorry but could be horseshoe back to the original comment that well that's because we shouldn't be drinking milk from an animal. Well, that if you want to, you know, I would say suit yourself, but I wouldn't. I don't think there's any religion that tells you not to eat drink. An. Animal Why don't we drink human milk? Well, some people do. You know, John D Rockefeller drank human milk. He got it donated, or he bought it and he drank raw human milk. He thought that was part of the
reason he lived so long. It's not a, it's not a thought that I like, but it is nonetheless A valid question. Human milk though, and sometimes they drink human milk up to the age of 5, so I mean, there's certainly nothing. And it's highly nutritious. Oh my goodness. Yeah. If the mother's eating well, yeah. I mean, how do you, how do you push back when you have a system, a state imposed system that is against raw milk? We have just done it persistently, quietly. We've never given up.
We've created a very strong demand. What's interesting to me in the early days of this, the state regulators were always coming after these little farms and trying to shut them down or taking their inventory and throwing it away. It was terribly wasteful. And they stopped doing that now because they were we, we embarrassed them. We, we, we got in the news, we got on the Internet, we came to the trials and testified and they, they just were very embarrassed by this.
And it's just stopped. All of this harassment has stopped. Raw powdered milk for for babies. I don't know. You can't do powdered milk raw, I don't think, or. Formula, shall we say? Yeah. So there's several problems with formula, but one is that the milk is highly processed, powdered, and that destroys the proteins. Also, they only put, there's very few formulas that have whole milk. They put skim milk in the formula.
And now if you're feeding formula to animals, the third ingredient that's listed on the label is animal fat because they know that these animals can't survive or thrive without animal fat. But human babies don't get any animal fat in their formula. They skim milk and vegetable oils. It's and that's just because the skim milk is cheaper. If you do drink skim or low fat milk, I'm guessing you need to counter that thing with a lot
more saturated fat in your diet. Yeah, so eat a lot of butter. Which begs the question, why are you? Why are you taking the butter out of the milk? You know. Yes. But here's the thing, the it's my back door. The the industry has figured out how to maximise their profit on the butter fat and they don't make a lot of profit if they just sell butter or if they sell whole milk. If they take the butter fat out and put it in ice cream, the they make five times as much on the butter fat.
So what they want you to do is be on this horrible low fat diet all day long and by 8:00 in the evening you're just craving fat and you go to the freezer and get the half gallon of ice cream and you eat the whole thing. That's what they want you to do because that's where they make the money is an ice cream. Do you think those authorities in government know the truth or they're just being paid off? The accountants in the dairy
industry know the truth. It's all it's all about maximising profit off of this this product's milk. The other thing, so the things that make the most profit are ice cream cheese and whey powder. And whey powder is the you know what they do with the whey from making cheese, and that's extremely profitable. Bodybuilders love it. Yeah, they shouldn't be.
Drinking, taking it, it's, it's very toxic to the kidneys, but it's pushed on the bodybuilders, you know, people have schemes, sales schemes and it's pushed on these people so. You might be at an advantage now with Bobby Kennedy in his position. Bobby drinks raw milk. In fact, he's we've supplied him with raw milk a few times. Yeah. And yeah. So do you think he's going to? Attack this or is the Is the dairy industry too strong? See this is all.
First of all, this is regulated by the health departments or the agriculture departments in the individual states. It's not regulated by the federal government. So all he can do is encourage it and but there's nothing legal that he can do to kind of free up raw milk. And actually, Jeremy, we don't need to. We've really accomplished what we set out to accomplish. Just for example in. Maryland.
Here where I am, I got the first pet milk permit and now there's about four or five dozen in the whole state. There's raw milk everywhere now in Maryland. But did you say, did you say pet? Milk. Yeah, Dogs and cats. OK, so it's still not quite. There yet it's I mean, you still have to put it under the guise of animals. Well. We haven't changed the milk. It's a loophole, there's no question.
It's a loophole that we've taken advantage of, but and that's because we could not get the cooperation of the Department of Health. They they, you know, stymied us every every, every step of the way. So we tried something else. Does pasteurisation. Only occur with cow's milk. What about goat's milk? Well, they they can. Pasteurise any kind of milk. There's not a lot of goat goat milk consumed. I I've never seen goat milk in the stores.
I guess. I guess there's a. Little bit, but yeah, they make goat cheese with the goat milk. I'm not a fan. Though I find the. Taste just a bit too sharp. Yeah, the battle against. Pasteurisation. I mean, how old is this? Maybe like a century. So for the yeah, the first. Mandatory pasteurisation was in 1913 in New York City and there were people there who were in favour of raw milk. They thought it was healthier, they thought it was just a safe.
But the argument they used was, well we don't have the money to inspect all these little farms. If we had just the pasteurising plants, we could just inspect there. And that was the reason given for making pasteurisation mandatory. And I had my own inspector when we first started out. She said, Sally, we, we just can't afford to regulate and inspect all these little dairies. Then that's why we don't want to
do this. So it's just the, it's, I don't want to say the laziness of the bureaucrats, but it's, it's all it comes back down to money. And how can they afford to inspect all these small dairies that you would have if you were doing raw milk? But for the. Entirety of human existence. They they've been drinking raw milk. That's right. That's right. We're making cheese. Or fermenting it in some way? Is it safe to freeze?
Raw milk, yes. People who can't get out to a dairy very often, we advise them to buy what they need and freeze it and the enzymes are maintained. What What we don't recommend is freeze drying because even though there's no heat involved, there's a study that showed that the proteins are just as warped and distorted with the freeze drying as with heat treatment. How do you? Verify the source of your of the safety of your raw milk. Do you just have to kind of do do a lot of homework?
Yeah. So the raw. Milk should be coming from a farmer who's milking his own cows. OK. And there are now very accurate tests you can do on the farm. We test every day. We test our milk every day and we test for what's called coliform, which is the benign bacteria. But if you have a high coliform count, you might have some pathogens. Well, our counts are 01/2, I mean. If it gets any higher. I know that something hasn't been cleaned and we fix it, but to me this is a game changer.
This this coliform test because you can keep track of what's going on with your milk and, and, but I mean, OK, so let's. Just talk about the layman. If you are just visiting a farm, I mean and you eyeballing, what are some of the things you should look out for? Well, you should look for cleanliness. You should look for Do they test? Do they clean out their parlour floor every day? Not a lot of farmers do, yeah. So they should and. Taste how? How long does it last in the refrigerator?
It should last two weeks. I heard the other way around. That that if it lasts too long, that's not a good sign. Well, because then because it because then. Because then it's got additives potentially. Well, it should last. Without additives it should last because it's really clean, right, right, right. OK. Right, I got you so. The way in which the cows. Themselves eat also does that make a difference yes so we. Call this a campaign for real milk. And by real we mean full fat,
non pasteurised and pasture fed. Grass fed. Because grass is the natural food for a cow. She's uniquely designed to digest grass. Grass and Clover so. Our cows are out on pasture all the time now. At this time of year there's no pasture, but we give them hay when they come in, we give them a little bit of grain and we give them some alfalfa pellets. And the actual milking. Itself, is our machines fine? Yeah, we, yes, we use. Machines. But as long as they're clean. Oh yes, we have a.
Way of cleaning them. They get cleaned every day. And the cows. Not not only grass fed, but they should be fairly free of antibiotics and other injections. Oh absolutely. And there's no. Need for them we, we've never used antibiotics. We use homoeopathic herbs and and things like that. But if the cow is producing very thick milk, we take her off the line and we let the calves drink from her. So I think what I'm what I'm.
Yeah. So the picture I'm trying to paint you is it's not just the milk that's in the bottle, but it's the it's the it's, it's the lead up to that that bottle well. We we milk into cans. I mean, there's nothing that touches the milk and there's no exposure to air between the the teeth and the can. That's it, Just goes right in. And then we. Put the can. In a kind of. Cradle and we first of all we philtre the milk and pour it through a philtre, and then we put the can in a kind of cradle
and. Bottle that way. And then it's immediately chilled. So the exposure to air is possibly 10 seconds and then the top goes on and then it's chilled. And what about heating milk That what on the. Heating. Milk on the stove or in the microwave or whatever? Well, you shouldn't use a. Microwave. You know that you're trying to trap me here. You shouldn't use microwave because it destroys the food if you want to heat it.
Like set it in a container C set in simmering water and heat it up. You can go to 110° but no higher. And so if you're you want raw yoghurt, you don't go fast. 110 Yeah, I'm asking that. Actually, I mean, I was being a bit facetious, but with our with our little boy, we still warm up milk, but we warm it up in water. Yes, right, right. And it's still you can touch it, yes. I mean, it's not, it's not hot. It's not hot, it's just warm.
So if you think of Fahrenheit, the Fahrenheit system 0 is an extremely cold day and 100 is a very hot day, right? Can you drink more raw milk than you can pasteurised milk? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, you can drink raw milk exclusively and in fact it's called the raw milk diet or the milk cure. And that was done in hospitals back in the early part of the 1900's. The Mayo Clinic with a very famous hospital today, started off by administering the milk
cure and it was very successful. The diet was just about four quarts of raw milk sipped slowly throughout the day, like 1/2 a cup every every half hour or something. And it was very successful for detoxification and for nourishing, very successful with kidney problems. Help people lose weight. It treated. Cancer with the raw milk cure. So yes, you can drink an.
Exclusive milk diet. I think another benefit of pointing out the benefits of raw milk and knowing that the shops don't want to to stock it is that it kind of encourages you to support local. You know, go and find a farmer yes. I mean there's a subliminal positive net benefit there because the farmer will be much happier with you coming direct to him. Yes, yes, but if you. Can't you know, like, let's just say California, My daughter lives in California.
You can go to a shop, a food store, and buy raw milk in California. They don't all really. Wow. And there are. About 13 or. 14 states in America where you can buy raw milk in the store so. It's all. It's all over the. Map about what's possible then for ours, the pet milk, they have to either come to our on farm store or we can sell it at farmers markets. But there's a weird kind. Of subliminal propaganda going
on here. Because if they say no, no, it's fine, you can buy raw milk for your animals. Yeah. What are they saying? What are they? What are they actually saying? They're saying, well, we don't care. Safe and healthy for animals. Yes. Yeah, well. The implication? Is that? The animals have a stronger immune system or something. Yeah, that's the implication. It's just ridiculous if you. Think about it for more than 10 seconds. Oh yeah, the whole thing is.
Ridiculous. But there it's been the, well, the subject of intense propaganda for so long that most people just accept this that raw milk is dangerous without, you know, without really thinking about it. OK, so the moral. Of the story Sally is what? Don't believe the government, especially when it comes to food. It's not just the raw milk, but you know, they've been on this relentless campaign against butter, against animal fats, against lard, against tallow for
over 100 years. And this is basically destroying our children, destroying everybody really, because you absolutely need these animal fats. And especially for growing children, you, you need them for normal growth. I mean, butter is the fat in all mammalian milk for the growth and development of mammals. And we're mammals, and the idea that children shouldn't have butter and animal fat is. Very. Destructive. It's why we're seeing such high
rates of infertility. It's why we're seeing children grow up and not be and be confused about what sex they are because they haven't been able to make the proper hormones, because they haven't gotten the nutrients that you get in animal fats. It's been a disaster. It's. It's been a complete disaster and thank goodness there are people trying to turn this
around. You know, in the last few months, butter consumption has really gone up in America because of Bobby and, and the work of many others. Just trying to get it into people's heads, you know, and also, I mean, I've found. That cooking in butter and pig fat is so much tastier. Yeah, yeah. So I I don't use we. Don't use. We don't use. Any seed oils at all? Yeah, no. And then neither do. We we just use olive oil and that's a fruit oil.
So coconut oil, palm oil and olive oil, those are fruit oils and they're much more stable than seed oils. And the seed oils were not in the human diet before 1890 when they developed the stainless steel roller press. So they're completely new to the diet and they they create a real imbalance of the types of fats on the cellular level and they don't provide the nutrients that the body is expecting to get from the animal fats. I'll give you an example.
A little boy loves sausage, so we'll easily give him a sausage in the morning that's all chopped up scrambled eggs. And And even. Look, we don't, we can't really buy raw milk. It's very difficult to find here. But he does get full fat cow's milk and he is so healthy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. I have a grandson who's 14 months raised on raw milk and he's just amazing meeting all his milestones. Never been sick. Perfectly normal in every way. What? What greater gift can you?
Give your children and and to give you the your child that gift you need to think things through and if. Do your own research on this. Subject you go to realmilk.com, our website, and we have lots of articles there, but you have to learn not to believe everything you hear. I was changed. In terms of my dietary trajectory, oh, I don't know. Two in the early, early 2000s by a gentleman by the name of Gary Taubes. Do you know? Oh, Gary. Yeah. Yeah, you.
Know we had him to give a little talk and we all went to a restaurant afterwards and nobody ate any potatoes. And again. Gary, listen, meat. Meat is a very healthy food, but I just think you can overdo it and if you don't get enough fat with the meat you're going to get in trouble. And also I. Tell you, you have a little boy, you try raising your boy on an all meat diet. They're going to go out and cheat. They need they need some carbs. You need to make dessert for them every now and then.
You know that the sweet things need to come from the parents. Can anybody? Honestly, in their heart of hearts tell me that there is anything better than bacon and eggs in the morning. Exactly. Exactly what a wonderful breakfast and bacon is a healthy food. It's full of B vitamins and the fat and bacon is the most big fat is the most similar to human fat with any type of fat. And it's but it's just so. Delicious if you do it in butter or lard.
And remember how they did, how they demonised it in the 80s. Oh yeah, yeah. Because they wanted to sell vegetable oils, everything was low fat. Yeah. But you really weren't eating. Low fat? Not if you were eating ice cream and you were putting spreads on your toast. You know, but ice cream. Is full of sugar Well. Of course, horrible. That's not the right way to get
your animal fats. You want to get your animal fats, you know, in meat and put on vegetables, maybe put on potatoes, bacon with your scrambled eggs. Then you won't crave sugar. But generally keep those. Carbohydrates low, yeah. 20% of calories I think would be a maximum. Because I mean also if. You are fully carnival. Nobody will ever invite you around to the house because I know you won't eat anything. Yeah, I know. I know it's a very boring diet. Yeah. It's not the way we were meant
to eat. We're really meant to enjoy our food and and not. Stray too. Far between extremes, you. Know you know when Jesus? Cured people, he said. Go and sin no more. And that word sin is doesn't mean that you've done something horrible. The word is harmatria, which means it's an archery term which means to miss the mark, to not be right in the centre. And I think people are missing the mark. They're either way to carnivore
or plant based or junk food. None of that is where we need to be. We need to be in the centre, centre ourselves on good wholesome food with plenty of fat, home cooked and delicious. Did you ever? Read the China study I've. Written quite a bit about the China study so. You know, I'm probably. One of the few people in the world who's actually looked at the printed version of the China study. Because it was printed on very large format, like 12 by 18.
You can't copy it in a copier and it's in libraries. This is the data that they collected and it's never been posted online and so I never. This data is not posted online, so you can't work with it and 1st. Of all, it was a. Terrible study with lots of variables. It was done in very poor
districts. It wasn't really the way most Chinese eat, but Mary Anning and I actually analysed this data and I wrote an article about it called the China study or Chinese Diet. They really didn't find much of it. Just give you an example. The highest egg consumption was in Singapore and now that was also the place with the highest rate of tuberculosis. So old, what's his name? Author says well, egg consumption was associated with tuberculosis, but it's
meaningless association. They eat more eggs in Singapore because they're wealthier and they have more Western influence and they have higher rates of TB because it's a very polluted industrial city. There's no correlation between eating eggs and getting TB. I'm. Trying to think of his name. The author. Yeah. Yeah. Colin Campbell. Colin Campbell there. There we go. Yeah. But what I don't understand. I've debated him.
Oh, really? Yeah, on, you know, on a. Podcast. What I don't understand though. Is. I mean, I've been to China and also Hong Kong and they eat a lot of rice. Eat a lot of rice, but Hong. Kong is the highest meat eaters in the world. The highest meat diet in the world is in Hong Kong. They. Cook in. Duck fat and pork fat. At least they used. To. They're pushing the vegetable oils now. It's a diet that had lots of meat in it.
But also I mean I. Guess you could argue their rice is less processed than western rice. No, they put TALF. Not. Really. They. Put talf talf and powder Talf and my colleague Mary Annie thought this was why there was such high rates of stomach cancer in China. India also, I believe. Lots of rice, yeah. And stomach cancer, I think. Also the highest rates of diabetes I believe now in India,
I mean. They don't do this today, but in the old days the rice, they, they mix the rice with the lentils and they fermented it, you know, soaked it in water at least overnight. And then they grounded up and they made their idlier doses and a little pancakes with this combination of rice and lentils, but it was fermented. So what is? Causing the obesity crisis.
Just too much sugar. And too many carbs and low thyroid function and thyroid needs vitamin A and people aren't getting enough vitamin A the. Addictive Substances. That they're putting in the foods MSG, MSG. Destroys the hypothalamus. And the hypothalamus is the gland that submits that emits appetite suppressing hormones. There haven't there was a very interesting study they did in China on MSG and they this was
rural Chinese families. They weren't eating junk food and some families put a lot of MSG in their food and others didn't. You know, you can buy MSG in in little bottles in China. And the families that use a lot of MSG were definitely heavier. It's a very strong correlation. Would you say fats? More important than? Protein. Yeah, absolutely. I. Absolutely would. So the way we look at it, the diet is no more than 20% of calories as protein and even less when you get older.
But for growing children, yes, and athletes, but no more than 20% carbs, about 20 to maybe 40% if you're an athlete or growing child. And then the rest fat. So this is a diet that's going to be 60 to 70% calories as fat. Now this is calories. This is not by weight because that's much more caloric I drink. Ground coffee with cream? What about cream, by the way? We haven't spoken about that. Cream is a wonderful.
Food. We we make cream on our farm and real cream is hard to get, but yeah, it's wonderful food. It's very rich. Yeah, very rich. It'll offset the bad effects of the coffee. Oh, you're not a coffee fan? No, I do enjoy. My my ground coffee early in the morning when the sun's coming up, though. Well, I'm sure you do. I'm sure you do. But really, your body should be able to wake up and get going without coffee. Just a glass of glass of raw. Milk.
I was a coffee. Drinker Yeah, I drink a glass of raw milk in the morning or or a couple of a mug of broth, chicken broth. But I was a very sick woman in about my mid about my 30s and I went to this holistic Dr and he had me do a foods food log. Of everything I ate. And he looked at it and he said, you know you will never be well if you don't stop drinking coffee. And. So that was a challenge for me and it's the hardest thing I ever did in my life.
It took me about a month of headaches but once. I got over. That my health just blossomed, all my rashes went away, my fatigue went away, my sometimes lack of emotional balance that just settled right down. It was the best thing I ever did. But I mean, what is it? Then about the coffee, is it the caffeine? Because then what about decaf?
Oh, you could probably. Decaf, all of this, a little bit of caffeine in decaf, but to see what the caffeine does is it it's like a hammer to your adrenal glands and your adrenal glands start pouring out adrenaline and cortisol and that keeps you in a state of fight or flights. And we were not designed to be in fight or flight all the time. You need the rest and digest hormones and eventually your
adrenal glands get tired. It's called adrenal fatigue and it gets harder and harder, first of all to get into fight and flight or or to come back down to rest and digest. And I read something very interesting recently. If your body can't produce enough cortisol, the adrenal glands are worn out. You know what it does? It makes cortisol out of testosterone, so it lowers your. Yes, it lowers. Your Oh no, that's not good. Yeah, yeah. I also find that.
And it's difficult to obviously pinpoint this, but I'm fairly convinced that coffee gives me heartburn. Yes, it's. Possible. Yeah. Now the heartburn is from not having enough stomach acid so I don't. Know what the caffeine is? Doing. But yeah, you need to. So that's interesting. Eat more salt and. By the way, high meat diet you do need more salt. You're you're, you're. Heartburn. Is because you.
Don't have enough stomach acid and the stomach acid is what tells that valve to close so the stomach acid doesn't come up your oesophagus. But why do doctors? Say you've got too much stomach acid yeah, they're they're wrong They. Just don't understand it. It's not enough stomach acid. But then how does an antacid? Work well it. Lowers your stomach acid Most people still get heartburn and because this has to take. Them all the time, those those drugs.
Have terrible side effects. For one thing, they have a lot of aluminium in them. Yeah, well, I, I took for about 15 years until I stopped in 20/20/20, I think. Proton pump inhibitors. Oh yeah, they're terrible. Drugs, omeprazole I think. Was was the main 1? So what? You can do to eat. More salt because you make. Hydrochloric. Acid out of the chlorine in salt, but you can also take a bathing hydrochloric acid supplement. I've got a couple of my children on those.
I have three out of four of my children are, you know, driven, ambitious, and I have one child who's very relaxed. They, he doesn't need any of those things. Hydrochloric acid. I I've seen, I've seen those pills. You can take those. I don't like the idea of taking a pill though. Well, I mean, it's better than. Protein pump inhibitors, yeah, for sure. But I. Mean just normal salt, putting more salt in your food.
Yes, that's where I'd. Start and then if that doesn't work, then I would take a hydrochloric acid. Eat butter. That's what I always say. Eat butter. It's the healthiest fat on the planet. It's got so many good things in it. You know, one of the things in butter is something called a rachidonic acid. And what do we do with arachidonic acid? We do a lot of things, but one of the things we do with it is we make our own endogenous cannabinoids.
Our bodies are designed to have marijuana being produced all the time. We have receptors for this, and this makes us relaxed but motivated. That's what you want. You want to be motivated but not hyper. You want to be relaxed and motivated. And that's what we get from the arachidonic acid in animal fats, especially butter. Butter is also a unique source of something called butyric acid, which is very important for colon health and for digestion. If it's grass fed, butter it.
Will have conjugated linoleic acid in it, which is the strongest anti cancerous substance it's ever been tested. It really protects you against cancer. So there's just as many wonderful things in butter that we can't get elsewhere. And to me that that if you don't do anything else, eat butter. Butter is better. Butter is better. Before. Any accusations come your way, you're not receiving any kind of funding from the meat industry and the Weston A Price.
Foundation doesn't receive that kind of funding and I don't get any salary for running the Weston A Price Foundation. I would vector your listeners to our website, westonaprice.org and hopefully they'll become members and receive our quarterly journal, which is very popular, become a part of our family. We also have realmilk.com for
finding raw milk. I'm not sure there's any listings for South Africa, I'm afraid, but I know that there are raw milk farms in Africa, maybe not in South Africa. No, no, we've got them. We've got them, yeah. We've got them that you just. Have to, you have to fight. You have to fight for the animal label. That's that's how it works, Yeah. Well then. That's fine.
But yeah, and my website, isnourishingtraditions.com, I haven't posted it in a long time because I'm working on a book, but there's a lot of interesting stuff there. I. Will also say that Western Price website changed my views on polio back in the day. Interesting, interesting. Yes, polio was caused by lead arsenate and DDT. Yeah, pesticides. They're both nerve toxins. Yeah, there was no virus. There's no virus. And the vaccine didn't change anything. What changed?
It was they were banned. And then so they started selling these pesticides in places like India where they kept having polio, you know? And it's it's that. Article that I found on the Western Price website that led me to a book called The Moth in the Iron Lung. Yes, yes. By Forrest Moretti, and he's just written a book on raw milk, by the way. Ah OK, I must contact him. Yeah. Yeah, he'd be a good one to interview. Yeah, I have spoken to him. Before he's very quiet though.
Yes, he's. He's a. He's a he's. Like a he's a hermit. OK. Sally Morrell, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for joining me in the trenches for having me, Jeremy.