Hello and welcome. This is my second UK column interview of 2026. I'm Mark Anderson, correspondent based in the US for UK column and I am very glad to welcome to the show today Orlean Curla of California. She's a long time Eagle Forum President and member in that state. California is the other left coast, along with the East Coast. There's two left coasts in the US, as the joke goes. But she's been fighting the good fight for a long time.
And it was in 1995, Orlean, as I recall reading your books and talking with you, that you first began to realise that very strange things were afoot with regards to water policy, with with regards to drought, with regards to the weather, the nature of the weather even. And it's been a long learning curve for you. And you've been showing up at meetings, you've been doing a lot of things to try and get people to see the light as you learned what was going on you.
You've tried to help others. You've done a very good job of it. A number of proposals and propositions on the California ballot. You've had a lot to do with some of those, some past, some didn't, but you've really made a difference. That's always impressed me in about the 15 years or so that I've known you. But welcome to the show, Orlean. Thank you very much, Mark. It's a pleasure to be here.
I've heard wonderful things about this UK column and it's great that that Britain has such a wonderful organisation and it's nice to be back with you. Indeed, yes, we're trying to make a real difference beyond exposure seeking solutions. Anyway, a good place to start is just a little bit of background. I know I gave some there, but I think you've been a teacher.
Tell us just a little snapshot about yourself to supplement what I said and maybe add to it. Well, I actually grew up on a nice Idaho potato farm in a little town called Roberts, Idaho. So I understand the plight of the farmers that people are facing across the world now. But I, I loved those wonderful, conservative, nice people that I grew up with. And my father was the mayor of the town. My uncle was a state senator. And so that's kind of how I got started being interested in
politics. That's what we spoke about it every dining room table, evening meal. And I thought everyone grew up in a family like that, but I discovered that was not the case. Anyway, I when we moved to Santa Rosa, CA, it was my husband who got a job at Sonoma State University that brought us here and our youngest son was born the day after we arrived. I have five sons and one daughter and when our youngest son was in the 6th grade, I thought maybe I can go back to
teaching. So I had taught in Idaho Falls when we were first married. I taught speech and drama and journalism. It was really the journalism that got me interested in writing. And after teaching 20 years, then in when I was in 19 or 2010, I decided to retire and started writing even more books. But my, my first book that I really was very interested in
was a very huge one. I'll show you that this is called USA Transformation and it's parallel to the European Union. And that was what really woke me up to what was going on in the world.
But in 2006 is when I started really finding out about United Nations Agenda 21, because we discovered that was right here in Santa Rosa. And they were making it so that anyone that had a Creek in their property, we have 7 acres and a Creek running through it. That that Creek was supposed to have 100 foot set back on both sides. And you couldn't plough the land, you couldn't use it. And I thought, what on earth is going on?
And I discovered this is all part of the agenda 21 plans for us to have total control of our lives and our water, the air we breathe, everything, our transportation. And so I started doing more and more investigation about it. And and that's when this California water crisis but came out. And in this I mentioned How I Met this wonderful lady, Rosa Corey. And I know the UK column, Sandy Adams has mentioned her, that it was her book Behind the Green Mask that woke her up.
And it was actually Rosa Curry that found out about Agenda 21 from me because she started attending some of our meetings and heard me speak about it. And she was fighting the battles inside our cities while I was fighting them out in our rural area. So we would join forces and help fight each other's battles, and that's kind of where my whole beginning of battling, fighting, fighting has started was back in 2006. Anyway, Arlene, thank you for that additional background on yourself.
And we can sprinkle more of that throughout the interview today if we need to. But anyway, I've been looking at, I've been looking at the aforementioned books, California's water crisis, Agenda 212030. Hopefully that'll become Agenda 3000 and never happened, right? And Inferno, Enigma and I, I noticed that when I read through these two books, there was a strong continuity. One thing led to another, which led to another. You, you're very talented in peeling the onion, as it were.
And in the book about California's water crisis, which by itself is really unsettling to read, that this kind of arrogance and this kind of mismanagement can happen in any government, be it local, state, regional, whatever it it notes here. And I took some notes on this. Author Orlean Curla asked an important question of the California water agencies at a Grange Hall meeting back November 19, 2015. So just past your 10 year anniversary there in Bennett Valley near Santa Rosa, CA.
And you asked this question, what if California has plenty of rain and the drought is literally declared over? Will the state of emergency, this, these are declared kind of frequently, Will that state of emergency be ended? And will all the regulations end? And will, will the, will the water agencies like yourselves who you're speaking to, will they go away? And the agent in charge replied, of course not. California will never receive enough rain to end this drought
or crisis. And we, the agents who are overseeing this will never go away. But I'm, what I'm getting out of this as I look through this, is that a crisis is a very good business. Some of us recall Rahm Emanuel, a long time mayor of Chicago, who was involved in the global cities movement and he wrote a book called When Mayors Ruled the World.
And the the idea was that cities would become much more involved in global governance, kind of local globalism or what's called globalism, and they would sort of invert everything. And the cities would network together and basically step outside the legal framework of the nations they inhabit and network together to bring about grassroots globalism. And so Rahm Emanuel was famous for saying never let a good
crisis go to waste. And this seems to be what's been going on in California. They've never let a good crisis go to waste. That's right. And they keep creating new ones. They love those crises to keep working with. I do quote him in my book. And what was interesting, when I first wrote the book I had on the cover, it showed a lake that had been totally, you know, drained of its water like Folsom.
And then when I updated the book, we had a state of so much rain that there was flooding all across. Going to Reading Hwy 5. All of the trucks were underwater and and it didn't matter then. So now they use too much rain as a crisis. So you they go from drought to flooding and never let the crisis go away. Yeah, I recall travelling about 3 years ago in West TX out toward El Paso, toward New Mexico, and I picked up a newspaper, the Pioneer Times I
believe it was called. And I was somewhat astonished, although not blown away to read that the Texas Department of Licencing and Regulation would rather routinely list the applications for licences for cloud seeding. And all told, the licences that were shared, the information about the licence applications were shared as a legal news
notice in that small newspaper. So the companies wanting to do the cloud seeding could say that they, they, they made the minimum requirement of public notice by publishing that legal ad in that rather obscure paper that probably hardly anybody ever read, at least not in large numbers. And some 30 million acres or so, or at least up to that were
targeted for cloud seeding. And what I find kind of paradoxical is on the one hand, you could, you could logically and in in an advanced way, you could plan on cloud seeding to mitigate an expected drought. You know, we know this time of year is going to be going to be dry. We have to keep the water table up, the aquifers from which the irrigation systems draw. And so therefore, we we need to encourage a little rain, bring up the water table, and then the
irrigation will work better. Things won't become overly dry. The crops won't fail. Otherwise, if you don't do that minimal cloud seeding, in my mind, it's almost like a planned fail. Let's just let the crops fail. Let's let the almond trees dry up into nothing. Or here in South Texas where I live, the orange Groves are
suffering something terrible. Even right now, as I speak, we're having an extended route here in Hidalgo County and the Rio Grande Valley, South Texas. But that's what's strange, right, is that there's all this technology to mitigate drought. And OK, on the other hand, we can have too much rain, then you wouldn't want a cloud seed if you're anticipating too much rain. Or is the cloud seeding causing
too much rain? But the bottom line is, is that there is this kind of tool kit of different ways to modify the weather, cloud seeding being one of them, and it could be used for good. It seems to me and I this was in the book that you just showed it could be used for good. And yet we don't see a pattern of stewardship that suggests that the authorities are doing the right thing. It always looks like something nefarious or inexplicable is
happening. And they don't even want people to know that cloud seeding is possible. I try to keep it very hidden. And but we do know that it, it really started with the Vietnam War. They were using cloud seeding to create enormous rain so that the the Viet Cong could not travel. There was too much mud on the ground. And they've been using it for a
long, long time. And as I mentioned in my book, PG and E Pacific gas and electric car electrical providers here actually have a room on the 6th floor that's called the weather modification room. If they were not capable of doing such a thing, why would they call it that? Yeah, PG and E, for the record, is Pacific Gas and Electric in California, correct? Yes. Yeah, that's a very large utility there. Yeah, the the 6th floor, it almost has that Kennedy sound to it, right, the 6th floor.
And at any rate that that is somewhat shocking in the sense that they would be that open about it. And yet at the same time, there's this kind of general sense of denial that weather modification can exist. It's worth mentioning at this, at this juncture, that someone spoke to a think tank recently and they talked about NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. And this person representing NOAA said that there's no substantive, meaningful, impactful way that human beings
can modify the weather. But if you go to Noaa's website, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, part of the federal government, it lists at least nine, maybe 10 ways that the weather can conceivably be modified. And the reason it lists them is that it says that if you do these without a licence, any of them or any combination of them,
you can be fined $10,000. Well, how can you be fined $10,000 for multiple ways to modify the weather unless those ways of modifying actually exist? Exactly. And as I mentioned earlier, they they have a patent to allow all of these various methods to be used. You can't have a patent for something that isn't possible. Yeah, exactly. Multiple patents. The Patent Office of the United States will not grant you a patent for something that's theoretical. It has to actually work.
Look at my new mousetrap. It has to actually catch a mouse. So, you know, yeah, these are the things that make it so inexplicable and and disturbing. Unsettling where you see what we're talking about, and yet you've been to many meetings. I've been to a few myself. And if you bring up even the most tame or innocuous ideas regarding the weather that it could be modified by human beings whatsoever, you're looked at like you have 3 heads. Well, everything is are improving.
We have several states in our nation now that have passed laws that there will be no chemtrails seating over their skies. Florida is one of those. And you know, maybe 10 years ago you it was impossible to even mention chemtrails without being laughed at that the fact that they even have legislation that has passed prohibiting this is, is remarkable. So we have made a little progress.
Yeah, it's being recognised, just like in Florida, the addition of fluoride, the fluoride to so called take care of your teeth in water, in public water. They're finally recognising that the principle is wrong. You shall not mass Medicaid. It doesn't matter whether fluoride helps your teeth when you put it in the public water or not. You cannot mass Medicaid. You cannot make everyone take something at the same time without their consent. So it doesn't matter if it works
or not. The principle is wrong. And I would argue, and I, and I know you've made this argument, that here again, if you're putting something into the atmosphere, no matter how innocuous, whether it works or not, whether it, whether it is what you say it is or not, if you do it without disclosure, it's wrong on its face. And it it seems like what we do in the air, just like what we do in the public water supply, ought to follow that same principle. Definitely.
At any rate, the you also mentioned in your California water crisis book that fast track to the winners of 2017, 2019-2020, 1 and 2025. We talked about that question that you asked in 2015, and they said that the, you know, no matter what happens, even if the heavy rains and whether there's a drought or not a drought, they'll never drop the crisis
mode, the crisis status. You mentioned that the real agenda behind water crisis is what are the goals of regionalism and Agenda 21, which became Agenda 2030 under the UN Sustainable Development Goals. There's seventeen of those. How does geoengineering play into this crisis and that.
Let's get into that. How does geoengineering play into this never ending crisis that you were told would never go away by those California officials and then talk about the Klamath River where you have hydraulic energy sources being subdued or destroyed. First of all, yeah, how does the geoengineering that we're we're definitely pounding on here. How does that fit into the the greater agenda?
Well, geoengineering is just another fancier word for weather modification and being able to manipulate the weather. And in my book, I do show the various ways they can do this. One of those is by HARP. HARP stands for High Area Aurora Morales. What's the project? And this is it still exists. It's in Alaska. I show a picture of it. So it can be turned on and send these very powerful electromagnetic waves into the upper atmosphere. And through that it can heat up
the air. It can then move clouds. It can especially move and work with the chemtrails that have already been sprayed over a certain area. It can create horrific winds out of nowhere and it can create periods of drought. It can create periods of horrific hail and rain. And this is all under the big
title of geoengineering. And so definitely it plays into either creating storms or creating droughts, whatever the a prescribed agenda is. And I'm sorry to say it is an agenda and it works really well with Agenda 21, which desires essentially to get people off their land and move them into the cities where they can be more easily controlled.
It's all about control. And your second point that you wanted me to talk about was the amazing things that have happened on the Klamath River. So the Klamath River at one time had four dams, one on the Oregon side, 1/3 on the Northern California side. Between the years 2023 and 2024, these dams were all removed and something that we had all been fighting against for probably 15 years when they first started to come up with this idea, they actually had federal legislation
to allow it to happen. That never was passed, but it was through the environmental groups that they finally got this to to finally be done and PG and E was going along with it. And I'm so sorry to say one of our wonderful congressman, Doug Lamalfa from Northern California was the outspoken one fighting against it. I quote him in my book and show his picture.
He just passed away January 6th. Sorry, I get all emotional because he was one of our favourite people and really a courageous man standing up against this. And he predicted exactly what would happen if these dams came down. And his prediction is exactly correct. The environmentalists were saying, oh, we're going to be saving the salmon and those poor little salmon that couldn't make it upstream because of the dams. Those salmon have been doing so well.
They've never been endangered. We can get them at every restaurant we want to order them and yet, thank you. I'm saying that they're they were endangered. Well, bringing down the dams caused hundreds of thousands of salmon to die. You would see them flying on the side of the banks of these sad looking Klamath rivers and the salmon need to have a gravel on both sides of the rivers to be able to spawn. That is totally gone. It's just covered with horrible thick mud.
And the poor little animals that would try to get to the river to drink, they were got stuck in that mud and there was no way to rescue them and they just died. So many little deer and different animals were just stuck in that mud. So it was a terrible disaster and terrible outcome for not only the fish, but for other wildlife. And yet the goal is to continue to do this because bringing down dams let's these evil people control water even more.
And as I mentioned, Agenda 21/20/30 is all about control. 80 dams in the past few years have been brought down across our nation. Those people are not even aware of that because it's done very quietly, no big fanfare, and they continue to try to bring down more. And of course, it also takes away the reservoirs that are there, that these wonderful, beautiful lakes, reservoirs that have been created. If you do have wildfires, you need to dip into those reservoirs to fight them.
They're gone. So it's it's been a disaster for Northern California. It's been a disaster especially for the farmers and ranchers that relied on that water coming through the Klamath River. The Klamath needed those dams to regulate it. Otherwise, it has periods of flooding, periods of drought, and with a dam, it continue. It regulates the constant flow of the water. These dams also had the best hydraulic power, clean energy,
that's all removed. And one of the dams even had a fish hatchery that produced 6,000,000 little salmon fish every year. Of course, that's all gone. So it's been a disaster in every sense of the word. You know, what you're, what you're describing shows the utter hypocrisy of the people that advocate removing dams, the very things that they say are good, you know, helping
wildlife. And you mentioned the fish hatchery and all the, the deer and other wildlife, both land, land dwellers and, and the fish themselves. All of it came to harm, all of it went downhill and all of it turned out wrong. And yet these people will say, you know, we're, we're environmentalists. We believe in improving the environment. There's nothing there whatsoever that speaks of improving the
environment in any way at all. You know, also the, it's worth mentioning or emphasising that you mentioned that hydroelectric power could and was being generated by the Klamath River dams, at least some of them. That kind of that kind of power is also what they call renewable energy, you know, clean energy. So even there they couldn't even bat 1000 on that, they couldn't
even get that. And so it, it just shows it, it just shows the utter bankruptcy of the arguments of those who are making these blatant and unnecessary and very damaging changes. And and as you say, some 80 dams and probably even more than that, that we don't fully realise have been completely torn down or torn out. It's a wonder they don't take out the Hoover Dam. You know it's is that the last standing major dance? On the schedule. Have you? Are you? Serious.
And yes, and it's probably happening in other countries too, because this is a worldwide agenda. Boy, there's something to keep an eye on for some subsequent articles to this interview perhaps, and and maybe some further books or updates of books that you might do. But anyway, the the water crisis alone, it is so disturbing.
You mentioned Operation Popeye as it was known in Vietnam, where they shot flares into the air to make it rain, including on the Ho Chi Minh Trail. So North Vietnamese and Viet Cong forces couldn't travel well. And that was declassified relatively recently and finally made known. And I'll mention as a quick footnote, Ron Avery, a videographer and kind of political philosopher, a friend of mine. He and I went to a 2017, I believe it was American Meteorological Association meeting.
And we were asking questions on the exhibit floor about high tech companies wanting to get involved with the weather with regards to the military. So in other words, on the floor where all these companies advertising their wares and their technology and their gadgets, we will help the Army predict the weather. We will help the Navy use use their knowledge of the weather to fight our wars.
And all of it was not quite saying that we will modify the weather in a militarily favourable way, but it was knocking on the door of that and we were asking questions. And I'll just mention this is a little anecdotal thing before we move on to another tier on this that we were actually they attempted to kick us out of a weather or excuse me, the American Meteorological Association conference, most of
it pretty innocuous. And because we were asking questions about weather mod and the questions were not hardball, they were pretty softball. They threatened to throw us out. Isn't that amazing? They do not want the truth revealed in any way, do they? Well, we weren't, we weren't as Privy or or as knowledgeable then as we are now. And so the questions really weren't that hardball as I said
and even then. And I just told the guy I have press credentials, I'm not going anywhere and he dropped it. But anyway, it just shows the sensitivity. This is why I mention it to anyone that asks even the most basic questions about these things. But anyway, the other book that you wrote and not that these are the only two books you've written several Inferno enigma. Now there there's a a definite pet. Yes, there's a definite pattern here. You know, from why is it raining too much?
Why is it not raining enough? Why do we have a drought or floods? And then, as you mentioned with the Klamath River, they even got rid of the all important reservoirs that the dam system would work with or kind of, you know, work within a in a synergistic fashion to create reservoirs with which to fight fires that might break out.
And so they're destroying not only the dams, not only hurting wildlife, not only hurting farmers, but they're actually lessening or harming the ability to fight fires, which harms everyone, farmers, wildlife, people's homes and property, leads to death and destruction. So removing those dams was kind of the ecological nuclear bomb, if you will.
It's it's affecting everything. So therefore, when you look at the whole continuity of everything, too much rain, not enough rain, things are getting too dry, the ground's getting too hard because we haven't had enough rain. Therefore the the ground's not as porous. So it's almost like the rain is hitting concrete. When it finally does rain, it doesn't soak into the ground well. Therefore the water table, the the reservoirs, the aquifers are not being regenerated to help
the irrigation systems. I mean, look at how everything is adversely affected. And then you do get fires. But not only do you have what are called conventional wildfires, you also have fires, as you've documented here, that have characteristics that are very strange. And so as if it isn't bad enough that there's extreme comprehensive water mismanagement, oh, no, that's
let's not stop there. Let's also enter a world where fires are showing burn patterns and intensity that make no sense, especially to those that have experienced conventional fires. And you yourself at your own home in California experienced a fire. Take us there. Start there with your own fire and now take us on the journey with looking at these fires that we've seen in recent years. Right.
So in 2017, October 9th, my husband and I and we actually had three house guests with us. We were out walking on a Sunday afternoon and suddenly this horrendous wind came up out of nowhere. It was like a 50 to 60 mile an hour wind and I, I couldn't believe it. It was almost like it blew us off The Walking path. I said, this is really worrisome. I wonder if we're going to have some kind of a strange fire.
What had also happened? I'd noticed three days before this fire, really heavy chemtrails. You saw them everywhere, and they were just continuing on. And as I write in my book, these chemtrails are dropping off and aluminium oxide, which causes fires to ignite really quickly and especially covering trees. So anyway, we went to bed that night. And at 2:30 in the morning, the
winds were still blowing. Our daughter heard a knock on the door, and her window was right over where the front door is. And so she opened the window and said, what is it? And this fireman said, you have to evacuate. There's a fire coming over the Ridge behind your home. And so our three houseguests were already packed, ready to go. So they immediately evacuated and my daughter, thinking that this was not going to be too much, had a shower because she
had to teach school that day. But anyway, by the time we finally got ourselves out, it was 1/2 an hour later. We grabbed some supplies and each of us took a car. Thank goodness because what happened to the cars that were left, It's just horrible. But we before we left, I had my husband give our home a blessing and we prayed really hard and,
and we left. Well, we went to a our, our daughter in So we were there and a good friend who was able to go through the Little League field to see where our property was, he called us and said your home survive while all these other six homes around you were totally destroyed. He said you could actually see where the fire came to your property line and stopped. So of course we thought that was miraculous and so grateful.
But I personally believe it also had something to do with the fact our home was the only home that did not have a smart metre. And as I write in my book, I think there's a direct correlation between these smart metres and what I truly believe was causing these fires. Direct Energy weapon. Because there was no way that this was a wildfire could do it. What happened? Every single home was destroyed, totally down to its cement foundation. Everything crumbled. All metal melted.
All glass melted first, then melted. A normal house fire does not 'cause that we had a normal house fire back in 1984, but did not melt our refrigerators, did not melt our washing machines, and did not crumble the cement foundation. But every single home. And in Santa Rosa, 5600, homes were destroyed one after the other, and everything left looking the same, with the cement foundation totally gone. Everything melted. And the cars, if any car was left, they look just the same,
totally gutted out. And some were absolutely too straight down to their foundation. Others, at least this steel frame was a little bit there. But these fires were even melting steel. And a forest fire does not melt metal. A forest fire maybe at the most burns 1000°. It takes 3000° to melt metal and steel. So you knew something else was going on. And as I write in my book, the only explanation is a something coming from the sky. And so many people actually saw
5G laser, blue laser shooting. And where do these lasers aim for? They in the thick dark clouds, they wouldn't know or tissue, except the smart metre gives out this pulsed radiation constant and they have that to aim for. And then the smart metre itself is made from a lithium battery and lithium is highly explosive. So it goes from maybe 100°C to 6000° Fahrenheit, not centigrade, 6000°F in just
seconds. So the smart metre explodes and continues that through the the copper wiring through the house. And so you immediately have the house burning from the inside out. And that's what I truly believed happened. Let me pull over there. What would you say to those? And there are a number of people that have looked at the water issues, have looked at all these matters, but they stop a little short about dude, directed energy weapons. DEW.
Yes, the military does have noted directed energy programmes, the US military included, I believe, other militaries. But some people will say, oh, come on, you know, lasers from the sky, directed energy weapons. That's the stuff of Star Trek. Flash Gordon. It's too futuristic. We're not there yet. Of course you're going to get denial from from the government. But maybe in this case, they're telling the truth. You know, maybe they're not
there yet. We've heard John Brennan, former head of the CIA, the Central Central Intelligence Agency, address the Council on Foreign Relations. That's documented where he talked about weather modification in a somewhat vague and futuristic way. Like someday we'll be there. Someday we'll be able to do this. Someday we'll be able to do
that. So there seems to be this knowledge gap or this perspective, different perspectives where some people will readily say, yes, directed energy, but others don't grab onto that or they don't feel there's enough proof of that. What, what would you say based on the experiences of yourself and others to that?
Because I get a lot of that. So it is more and more the fact that people are beginning to recognise that something was very different from these fires and it was not only the centres of fire. I go into the fire that happened in Paradise where 19,000 homes were destroyed, all looking the same, and the same with Lahaina and Maui where 2000 homes were destroyed, all looking the same. And then I, I go into the fires that happened the next year in Texas as well as Canada.
And then I end up with the fires that happened in Los Angeles and, or they had 16,000 homes destroyed again, all metal melted down to the cement foundation pulverised. And you cannot say that these are normal forest fires. But and, and then the other thing, what kind of a forest fire zaps every home and leaves the forest standing? All the trees were standing around these homes and trees around our neighbours homes we're standing.
So I know it's a horrible thought to think that any government could possibly be doing this, but 32 nations have Direct Energy weapons and you go into a government website, they are very proud of them. They show what they're they're amazing different I instruments look like that are causing this in my book. I show a picture of right there on the Maui island as a second Air Force Base that uses Direct Energy weapons and they were just awarded for creating this
really large one. And if you go to the Lockheed Martin website, they're the biggest government agency that helps produce these weapons. They have videos that show their technology, what they're able capable of doing, how they can either shoot from down below and destroy any kind of a drone up in the sky, or they can shoot from the drone down to the ground and and cause fires even or destroy weapons. They can shoot ships on the ocean and destroy them.
So of course they're saying that these are all being used for protection for people, but the fact that they're being so widely, these fires everywhere, and that's really the only explanation for them. And and then in my book, I also let people understand why I truly believe these were planned fires, because they wanted that land for something else. You can't have a planned fire with a little forest fire that chooses its own method and where it's going.
In my book, I show there was a section of Santa Rosa called Coffee Park that the city, the Board of Supervisors had already planned a certain section of it and had a map laid out in June of 2017. And then lo and behold, in October when this fire hit, that exact same map was destroyed. A little bit over the edges here and there, but you can't have something already planned out and follow a map unless this was a directed energy fire. And that's, that's the only
explanation. And more and more people are finally beginning to realise this, as painful as it is, but to be able to talk about. Yeah, I mean, if I look at it like a detective, I, I grew up watching Colombo and Sherlock Holmes serials and whatnot, Colombo would say, but you know, how else could it happen? I mean, in other words, there's only so many ways that you could make that happen.
And you have plenty of photos in actually both books, especially the Infernal Enigma, Inferno Enigma, excuse me, but both books, you've got several pictures where, as you described, the fire patterns are precise for each house. It's very surgical. And then you get to a street and the entire fire stops and there's barely any, if any debris on the net on the street. That is sort of where everything ends. And then the houses across that street are perfectly intact. That's right.
That was in Coffee Park and the other. You also show you also show pictures. Sorry, sorry. Go ahead. For them to get to coffee park they're supposed to forest fire, had to jump 4 lanes of a super freeway and then start the fire again. It just it doesn't make sense. Yeah, and, and again, looking at it like the detective, if the trees aren't burning much, if any of the trees, then how can the forest fire travel from one place to another?
What is fire? Fire is basically a plasma of burning material and it it feeds on itself and it has to have something to feed on. You can't have a campfire without wood. You can't just say voila, voila, make fire. So there has to be fuel for the fire. And if the if the trees aren't burning, how could it travel, much less have the intensity to take out all the homes in the same absolutist total way that
you're describing? So the detective runs into the wall and says, there's only so many ways this could happen. Now, someone might say, let's keep exploring this. I'm not totally satisfied with the directed energy theory. We'll just call it that. But the important thing is that this needs to be thoroughly investigated and not that it hasn't been. You've done a great job yourself, but those that are experiencing these things, those
that already have unfortunately. And if, if this happens again, I've always contended that soil samples and partially burnt wood samples, partially burnt metal samples, anything remaining needs to be taken to a lab and given a very, a very complex set of testing, a lot of testing needs to go on.
I'll just put that out there. And so I would just say to those sceptics that maybe kind of stop after the water crisis thing and they're hedging a little, a little bit about what they're hearing right now in this interview. The main thing is the line of inquiry. The inquiry needs to continue. Then we can all be satisfied that the evidence is is continuing to be accumulated and we'll all find out what the answers are.
But a good detective at this point, based on what you know, would say directed energy cannot be taken off the table. It has to be perhaps the predominant theory or the predominant presupposition of what probably happened. But we'll keep looking. If I could also add one other point, There were trees that burned, but they were burning from the inside out and I show several pictures of that.
How can a tree burn from the inside out unless there was a ZAP, a directed energy weapon that hit the ground. And as you know, water carries electricity. So the water in the ground was carrying this electromagnetic current energy fire that then goes through the roots of the tree up inside the tree and causes it to catch fire and burn from the inside out. And then the other interesting thing is no plastic garbage cans burned.
So if this were a normal fire, our fire back in 1984, everything plastic burned and melted, but no plastic garbage cans burned. As you know, a microwave fire does not burn plastic, but it metal in a microwave it destroys the the microwave but but plastic does not burn. And so in my book, I show one picture after another of all the plastic garbage cans that were left standing.
And a lady and her husband in Natra had a fire come that destroyed their entire home, but all their plastic lawn chairs were still there. No plastic melted. Isn't that a phenomenal thing? No, that that is uncanny because plastic would have a much lower threshold. Generally speaking, when confronted with high heat, it would be by all our normal experiences, it would be among the first things to kind of collapse upon itself. Put a lightweight plastic cup too close to a gas burner on
your stove and see what happens. It just kind of, it just kind of crumples and melts and dissolves, if you will. And, And so yeah, that these are among the many anomalies and we can all put our detective caps on regardless of what level we believe, regardless of what, if we think the evidence is satisfying for directed energy or not, the main thing is to keep looking. Don't stop looking, don't stop investigating. And then we can all get together. It won't be a divisive issue in
any way. And and keep finding out, peeling the onion and find out what's going on here. And if I could add just one more thing, many people believe that that is why in Lahaina, they turned off the water. And the water agent in charge said, oh, well, it's a matter of equity. And before we can allow the water to be used for everyone on the island, we must first have a discussion of equity, which was ridiculous.
And the same with Los Angeles. The reservoir there that they could have dipped in to use water was totally empty. And some people believe had they tried to use that water on a on an electrical fire, people then would have been very suspicious that this was not a normal fire because the water would not put out the fire. It would just make it worse. So they just got rid of the water so no one could actually see that water tried to put out a fire.
Oh, so yeah, you're saying that had they use conventional water firefighting techniques and use water just like if you look online or go to your fire department and get some public information books, you know, if you have a kitchen fire or if you have an electrical fire, do not use water. And most of us grew up knowing that that in an electrical fire you need to use some sort of special extinguisher that has a
certain kind of foam. So in other words, you're saying that had there been plenty of water with which to fight fires, but had the fire been mainly electrical in nature or origin, then it would have been all the more obvious that the fire wasn't conventional? That's right, they would have known that this was like a microwave fire. That's, that's very interesting to consider for the detectives among us and we can all be good detectives here.
Now looking at your Inferno Enigma book a little more closely and some some of my notes here. I've been doing a lot of reading lately and really enjoying your work about about the Maui fires in Hawaii in particular. Here's just some of the questions. Why was the power turned off in certain areas so no cell phones could be used? Why were no alarms sounded in
Maui? Not even any warning from police or firemen with their bull horns, which is just, you know, that's not even electronic or maybe they have a little electronic speaker on them. What kind of brush fire burns hot enough to melt metal and glass? We've went over that. Why was there a police blockade in Maui? So no cars could leave until the cars were all, you know, seriously damaged by this paradoxical kind of fire. Why was the water turned off and the reservoir not filled, etcetera?
And then of course, the grand question perhaps of them all, the actually there's two Were the fires caused by man made climate change, as the media and governors have been saying? Or could it have been something seemingly exotic like directed energy weapons? And were these planned fires? Were they done for a land grab to turn certain areas into, you might say ripe acreage for smart cities, 15 minute cities? And I talked about Rahm Emanuel and how the global cities thing
works a little bit. Never let a good crisis go to waste. In other words, what were the Maui fires? The ultimate crisis to not let it go to waste. That's right. And the fact that they will not let any rebuilding go in these certain areas that had already been designated to be their smart cities in in Lahaina, they are saying that they cannot rebuild because the coastline is too unstable. How many hundreds of years had homes been on those coastlines?
And they've been just fine, but suddenly they are too unstable, so no one can rebuild. And so instead, the governor has made the statement that we're not going to let foreigners or anyone else come and take over this land. We're going to take over it ourselves. So the government now owns that land and the government can then do whatever they want to do with which I believe they're going to turn that that whole area into a big smart city as they had
planned. They I show a a map that they had planned this back in, in I think 2015, 2012. It's called smart. It's not smart grid. What is it? You probably have this picture of that right before you. But anyway, they, they had planned this just as they had with Santa Rosa with this certain area. And then when you go to, to to Los Angeles, they're saying the same thing that they were not allowed to rebuild along the coastline, that they need it for
buffer zones. And so the governor of California and that the mayor of Los Angeles, they're all saying the same thing that they cannot rebuild. They have to have it as buffer zones. They had already planned to have this area as a big smart city as well. So this. Let me ask you this, Orlean, because this is a very revealing question and I don't want to presuppose what the answer is.
Would it be an accurate statement to say that in addition to the areas you just mentioned where they're not allowing rebuilding, would it also be true about paradise? In other words, is it pretty much across the board that wherever these inexplicably uniform and totally destructive wildfires, quote unquote happened, is it pretty much true across the board that in most or at least or possibly even all of those areas, rebuilding has not been allowed? Would that be a true statement? Yes.
And specifically their strategic areas that they had already designated as to be used for something else. Some people think that they wanted Paradise to be used as to bring the smart train through. And fortunately we've been able to stop that, this bullet train that the governor has been trying to push. But others think there's gold up in Paradise and they would like to develop it for her mines. And there's definitely other plans that they have for all of
these cities. And what I write about in in Santa Rosa, the Coffee Park area was already planned to be their redevelopment area and they were planning all the people moving out, 1200 people leaving and selling their land because they were going to have such a hard time rebuilding. Also, the insurance companies will not usually cover the cost of rebuilding the cement foundation because that has never been necessary in fires before. So the insurance costs are so much higher and people are
finding that out. But fortunately 1 sweet little lady in Coffee Park started this movement and got the people working together and loving each other so much that no one wanted to leave. And and so they did rebuild and they were rebuilt together and they would pass on really good
tidbits to each other. And every Wednesday night after, as soon as the fires happened, as she's a a single mother, a teacher would get all of their neighbours together and have roast hot dogs and have wine and talk about rebuilding and giving each other encouragement. So nobody sold their property. So Santa Rosa had to figure out some other areas for their
redevelopment zone. So that's one of the things I say in my book, if we can learn to work together with our neighbours and support each other, maybe we can fight this and we won't have to give up and move away. Of course, where the government has already taken over that land, as in Lahaina and parts of Los Angeles, it's going to be
really hard to do that. Isn't that interesting that the most basic, the most, you know, commonplace kind of human association, getting together at the kitchen table, having some coffee, having some wine and just talking about we love our town, we love our neighbourhood, we love our homes. We're going to rebuild. And you're you're putting your foot down, but you know you're not, you're not raising any
firearms. You're not, you know, you're not engaging in any kind of revolution that people would typically think of a revolution, you know, unarmed overthrow of these evil governors. You're simply wanting to live where you've always lived and enjoy it. And it it worked in that case. And possibly it, it could have worked in paradise or, or other areas. But the media, right? The media pretty much agrees with what the government is saying. You know, these are just, you know, random fires.
Maybe some guy put out his cigar in the wrong place. You know, let's show Smokey the Bear on TV. This is all just conventional. Who left? Who left that campfire unattended, Right? And and yet we're supposed to believe that an unattended campfire or a, a power line that went down when it was when there was drought conditions or lightning hit, maybe dry lightning or there was a rare storm in an otherwise dry area and lightning started a fire somewhere.
And that that resulted in these massive, uniformly destructive fires. It just doesn't hold water, pardon the pun, to use those kind of explanations. And you know, we have, we have different belief systems and many people believe things at different levels. But it's just really heartening from my perspective to hear that the neighbours got together in that instance and fought back in the most basic way, you know, to help each other and, and actually make a difference in that way.
But anyway, the, the overall issues that we're talking about here do really beg for solutions. Do you feel at this point in time that the machinations that you've seen, the, the extreme drought, the floods tearing down the dams in the Klamath River and maybe some 76 other dams across the country, 4 dams in Klamath and, and these paradoxical fires, Plastic ought to meld and it's not the fire so uniform and uniformly destructive, suggesting at least the possibility of directed energy.
Are you seeing any of this relenting? A lot of this happened between between 2015 and 2019, but there's been more recent things. Is this relenting at all? Is public awareness beginning to inspire those that might be engineering these things to to maybe back off a little? Or are they just sharpening their knives quietly and this might come around again? Or is it not relenting at all? What what's what's the reality right now?
I do think because of so many podcasts popping up and people having their own ability to talk about these things, I think people are becoming more aware. There's a a lady in Southern California who started her own website and she's been speaking about this and, and lots, I think over 100 different podcast editions. And she definitely believes that these are directed energy weapons and is very forthright about talking about it. Her name is Peggy Hall and I do
quote her in my book. She gives 10 facts that are similar with every single fire that could not make any sense if they were not coming from DDEWSS dues. And then there are other, there's a couple that started a website, they talk about it as well. So I think more and more people are listening and becoming aware. It's just how do you stop this from happening? As we mentioned, there are some states that are passing laws against chemtrails.
Maybe they could also, if they believe that, maybe they could also believe there are such things as fires started by Direct Energy weapons. Maybe they could pass laws against that. But we do need to become more aware and we need to have the courage to speak out, even if it's on a subject that is not very popular.
I'm sure the whole subject, you know, we, we tend to grow up thinking that our government loves us and we kind of think of them as parents, that they have our best interests in heart at heart. But if you find out things like this, you wonder what on earth has gone going on. And I do believe all of this is part of Agenda 21, Agenda 2030.
And in my book, at the very end, I mention the Fabian Society in England and how much power they've had over the government in England. And very influential people belong to it, former prime ministers. And they have this stained glass window where they show the founders of the Fabian Society all hammering. Well, two of them hammering on the earth and one of them blowing the the bellows to heat up the earth.
And, and I thought, is that what they thought by by these fires heating up the earth that can actually cause amazing changes. And that's what their motto is to remould the earth according to our heart's desire. That's at the top of their stained glass window. Are they trying to remould the earth through these fires to bring about their heart's desire, which is pure socialism, communism, and more and more
control? And I, I truly believe that that's part of it. That's the whole purpose behind the United Nations and their agendas is total control of our lives. And they're very happy to tell you about that. And the big thick book that they published about Agenda 21, they mentioned that it's all about control. They want to control our the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat, the clothes we
wear, our transportation. And by using the myth of climate change, they can constantly make us so afraid that we're using too much carbon and and that we've got to get rid of our carbon dioxide and we have to have even the control of our lives to carbon credits on our our little. Credit cards. And if we do use up too many carbon credits, we will not be able to go shopping. We'll not be able to buy what we need.
And also, if there's social credit score, like in China, if you are not a good citizen, if you dare to speak out against the government like I'm doing right now, or expose these things, then your credits will be taken away on your social credit score, on your credit card and you won't be able to go shopping or buy what you need. So this is all about control. And the more you investigate it, the more you've realised that's that's the answer. And big governments like to
control their citizens. And that's what socialism, communism is all about. And we would like to keep our freedoms in our nation as long as we possibly can. That's what has made our nation the great country it is. And it's so sad to see these freedoms being taken away and that's. You know, I'm, I'm reminded Orlean, I'm reminded I, I happen to watch a lot of westerns. I watch mostly older TV shows when I watch TV at all.
And in a lot of the westerns, the there's some sort of malefact or some sort of dark character or maybe a group of them, and they might burn down a town or a village or they might run some Indians off their land. And I think a lot of people mistakenly believe they were just being mean to the Indians.
But in many of the themes, and, you know, art imitates life, oftentimes many of the themes of these Westerns, the guys doing The Dirty work are working for some kind of guys in suit smoking cigars in a smoky room somewhere. And they're clearing the land for a railroad. They're clearing a land to drill oil. They're clearing the land to mine minerals.
And in the more sophisticated scenarios and some of these dramas, they're they're devaluing the land so the governors with their cigars and their buddies in government can get the land on the cheap. And so it's nothing new and it's been recorded both in fictional format and non fictional format. And often times fiction imitates non fiction. You know, there's a there's a cross pollination there.
It's nothing new for brigands and and pirates wearing three piece suits to go in, get their kneecappers, send in the guys that do The Dirty work, devalue land, get the minerals, get the gold. You mentioned gold possibly being a factor, which sounds like something out of the past, right? But so it, it shouldn't be surprising to any of us, particularly when you look at the history of the American West, that dark forces and, and manufacturers and mountabanks and things like that.
You know, people with with very, very deep agendas are going after natural resources or land and they want to play dirty. And so, so the only question remains is how sophisticated do they want to get and just how down and dirty do they want to
get? And so are we seeing, and I'm only putting it in the form of a question, are we seeing that Wild West mentality now with high technology, which yesteryear was done with, you know, guns and cannon maybe and fire, but now it's it's simply more sophisticated. But we're simply seeing the more that things change, the more they stay the same. They're just using different tools. Could it be true?
And I I did want to mention one of the other thing I in my investigation of the fires in Texas and Canada. So at one time, and that's why I wrote that big huge bat book. I mean, get a copy of it. Anyway, I think it's behind me, but oh, here it is. That's OK. So. So this one. Oh, OK, that's fine. By stealth and deception, USA
transformation. And it's parallel to the to the European Union. When I wrote that, they were trying to push through a transatlantic corridor that would cross from Canada all the way down through the United States, through Mexico, all the way to Panama. And Phyllis Schlafly, the lady that started Eagle for him, got wind of it and started writing about it. She had a syndicated column and at that time it was just called Security and and Prosperity Partnership.
But they were just like the Common Market. The European Common Market was morphed into the European Union. This security prosperity partnership was a trade agreement between Canada, the United States and Mexico. And they were going to slowly morph it into this North American Union because she got wind of it and started writing about it. And then other people joined the battle, like Lou Dobbs started talking about it on his
television show. They've had to backtrack and but part of the plan was to have a huge transatlantic, well, NAFTA superhighway because NAFTA was behind this, pushing it. And so that kind of came to a screeching halt. The NAFTA superhighway was supposed to start in Texas, going right through the centre of Texas, through some cities and areas that they would have had to totally transform and get rid of. And so that came to a halt. Well, these new fires that started in the Panhandle,
there's a new plan now. It's no longer called the Trans Texas corridor. It's now called the Ports 2 Plains corridor. And it's going through a part of the north part of the Trans, the northern part of Texas, the Panhandle where the the farmers were more and they wouldn't have to go through major cities that was not going to be so wide. But I truly believe that this plan is continuing on. And Joe Biden signed this into law on in the year 2022.
And 200 other organisations even elected congressman were supporting this. So this is the new plan. It's called Ports 2 planes and it will be I-21 now instead of what it was be going to be before going through the the Panhandle of of Texas on through all the way on the way up to Canada and Canada in the meantime was all beings also being transformed with all of their fires. So that area is now open for their corridors to be built.
So I think that's another sneaky part of this that most people are not talking about. And then the trans, the new Texas corridor will go all the way through Mexico, down through all the way to the city of Panama.
And that's where China gets in. China has always wanted to control the Panama Canal. And they were actually building a bridge to go over the the canal to make this this whole transportation corridor even easier than it would go across Panama on through South America. And as you know, some of us believe they've been trying to have a one world government for the longest time. And having this, all these countries connected through their corridors and their
trading makes it so much easier. And, and when you notice the maps of all of this, there are no boundaries. All the borders are gone. And I show those maps in my book. So anyway, I believe that is what the Canadian fires and the Texas fires were all about as well. And so many poor innocent little farmers were wiped out. And those fires, all their cattle were killed. Their entire cattle industry
has, has gone. And it's it's very sad that these evil people don't mind destroying lives, destroying animals and destroying property to fulfil their dreams. Yeah, there's, there's a lot to unpack there. We can begin to summarise. I did cover the Trans Texas corridor in fairly recent years and I'm familiar with this transnational nature of the corridor.
And even now, you see, if you drive north, it'll say future trade corridor to that effect, and it'll show 69 Hwy 69, where 69 doesn't yet exist, but it exists further north. So it suggests that there'll be a connection made.
And then there's a highway that goes out of Little Rock, AR and it goes northeast toward 57, a major highway that goes through Illinois into Missouri, suggesting that that secondary highway in northeast Arkansas will eventually become part of Interstate 57. So there's a lot going on there. And, and it really takes a lot of effort to make it part of 57. So they're really going out of their way to to make that happen. A lot of expense and it takes a
lot of time. One thing I will say is what you're describing there appears to be going quite slowly. I think they've been running into some roadblocks there because I drive that way a lot and I don't think they're going as fast as they'd like to. So there's a little bit of good news there. I agree. I think there's some really smart Texans that find out about it. One of those is Margaret and Dan Byfield that head up the American Stewards of Liberty.
They live in Texas and they've been, they fought the Trans Texas corridor early on and they're the ones that actually told me about the bridge that China's building. Yeah, there's also a Terry, Terry Hall who runs the turf group Texas United for Reform and Freedom. My. First book. That's right. Yes, yeah, Terry. Terry is a lot like yourself, just a undefeatable, you know, untiring activist Terry Hall and yourself and the other person
that you mentioned there. Anyway, as we kind of wind up today, Orlean, this is all very interesting. Those watching this interview of course can believe things at whatever level they want. But the main thing is we all have to keep our eyes and ears open and keep investigating and keep an open mind and find out what the ultimate causes are.
Because this is all whatever technologies are being employed, whatever exactly is being done, this is all going in a direction that doesn't look good and so far has shown little else than destruction and total tragedy in many cases. And, and so if history is our teacher, so far we're not seeing
anything good come out of this. We're seeing that the maybe the old warning or the the announcement of your Many years ago in Popular Mechanics, there was an article where the military claimed it would control the weather by 2025, the year 2025. That was an article in Popular Mechanics and perhaps that's what has been unfolding. Maybe, maybe not. But in in different degrees at different levels, that appears to be the case.
There's a guy named James Lee or Jim Lee that runs climateviewer.com and Climate viewer.org. I believe those websites are still up. He's got some insights into all of this and the history of weather modification, which believe it or not, goes back more than 100 years, the very first attempts at at modifying the weather. And anyway, Orlean, what are what are the main websites where people can look up your work and read it and decide for themselves?
So you can find all of my books on Books for truth.com and then also the National Eagle Forum carries my books. So you go to eagleforum.org and just look under books and you'll see my name. And then some of my books are actually on Amazon. And I, I decided early on that it was kind of more beneficial to be my own publisher. So I, I published my own books now and what's so nice, I can then update them whenever I want to.
When you go with a professional publisher, that's not possible, but you can find my really large one by stealth interception on Amazon. I've. Also mentioned that. Islam pardon. I wanted to mention that that's important that you use your books in a very journalistic way. When it's time for a new headline or an update, you do it generally speaking. And that's very important. People are not getting something that's just cemented in stone
never to be touched again. They're getting an ongoing compendium and ongoing accounting chronicling what's happening. And that's what's really important about your work. And as you say, self publishing is the key to that. I. Was able to add the chapter about the Klamath dams coming down, my book about the water crisis. I was always warning people how terrible this would be if they
did come down. And now I've been able to add that yes, everything had had been prophesied about that came true and what a disaster it is. So I do try to keep them up to date, especially on something as important as that.
Indeed, the final statement I'll make and then we'll we'll get off the high, We'll get off the Texas superhighway here is that it seems to me that if you were someone wanting to carry out these agendas, and I'm just kind of doing a hypothetical here that you would engineer the climate to change. You would change the climate in these more deep seated high tech
ways. But then you'd blame it on random climate change that they attribute to everything from Cal flatulence to your your charcoal grill to the very automobile you drive. So change the climate. Yeah. They tried to blame the Maui fire on a hurricane that was 500 miles away. Oh my goodness. Yeah, it. Came from that, but they'll blame it on anything but the truth. Yeah, so.
So by deliberately changing things, let's say hypothetically speaking, then you can blame it on the other thing and try and give that theory more credibility because it's the passive climate change, if you will, not the more deliberate engineering one, but the passive one. That's the one they use or cite, CITE site to justify Agenda 2030 and beyond. So if you're, if you're Sauron in Lord of the Rings, you know, you're the guy with the the ring and you're the ultimate source of the evil.
That conceivably is the kind of scenario that you'd want to put together. That's very good. I love that movie. We've seen it about 20 times. Yeah, you. Definitely, you definitely like it if you've seen it that many times, Orlean, if you have any final statements. Otherwise, it's been very enjoyable, you know, ferreting this out and getting this out in the open and sorting it out as best we can.
Do you have any final thoughts? Well, I just would like to thank you, Mark. It's been a pleasure to be here with you. And my final thoughts are for anyone listening to this, just how important freedom is. And we have to to stick by our actions and whatever we can possibly do to preserve our freedom. As Ronald Reagan said, it's a very vanishing thing. If we do not especially want to preserve it for the next generation, we shouldn't take it for granted.
And I know right now in the UK, the poor people there do not have their freedom of speech anymore. If they dare to write anything on social media about how they
feel. It's terrible that so many Muslims are in the country, they can actually be arrested and that freedom of speech could vanish here as well if we don't diligently try to protect it. So I'm very happy that an organisation like this, UK forum Begin exists, the UK column, and thankful for all the writers and people like you, Mark Anderson, for being part of it and trying to express the truth and get it out to everyone listening. Thank you, Arlene, for those
kind words. Well, everyone, you've been listening to my second UK column interview for 2026, Orlene Curla. Thank you, Orlene. You're welcome. My pleasure.