Hello and welcome to the UK column. Today I'm joined by Jose Bimorji. Jose is currently serving as Venezuelan Ambassador to Lebanon and Syria and has previously served as Minister of Industries and Production in the Venezuelan government. Welcome to the programme, Jose. Yes, hello. My first of all, thank you so much for this opportunity to speak a little bit about Venezuela and bring the the true of the Venezuelan people around the world.
Because as you know, the mainstream media used to manipulate information everywhere and the algorithms in the social media, they are playing a very bad job by hiding the the information. No by shadow. Shadow banned information that we have or we want to sell. Venezuela has been in the news quite a bit in recent weeks because President Trump has been has decided to bomb some boats, which he claims are related to drug trafficking.
And now the threat is to bomb targets inside Venezuela itself. So. So what's going on between the United States regime and Venezuela at this point? You know the difference between US and US. They is started 200 years ago. It's not from now.
It started from the moment when we got the independence from Spain. So we have, if we read the history of Venezuela and United States from the moment that we got independence from Spain, they, they start to treat us for many reason, for many reason, they will never, ever forgive us the fact that we bring the, the freedom to the, the Latin American. We start with the freedom
process. So during the first mandate of President Trump, he tried to support many coup d'etat against Venezuela. We don't have to forget for example the strong support that the the regime of President Trump gave to to the self proclaimed President of Venezuela, Juan Guaido in 2016. This aggression against Venezuela started at the Obama times, the Nobel Peace Prize.
Obama who declared Venezuela as a treat for the United States in 2014. He start boot sanction on Venezuela in 2015 and then from 2016 to 2020 during the first period of Trump, they carried out a huge pressure strategy against Venezuela that by blocking our resource, by frozen our our account in around the world, by stolen our gold from UK, by supporting the central county President Guaido, by doing pressure on more than 60 countries around the world, 60
countries around the world that recognise Guaido. And even even we don't have to forget that in 2020, if I remember well, they tried to invade Venezuela throughout Colombia at that time. And even the Vice President Pence, he was in a in the border being cuckot in the border between Venezuela and Colombia, trying to support an invasion, invasion against Venezuela. So this is a policy that started long time ago, but now they just changed the narrative.
Why? Because the opposition, the extreme opposition in Venezuela, the at that time was Guaido, this time is Maria Machado. They changed the actors, but they are always the same fraction of this small, fairly small part of the opposition in Venezuela, which is completely extremist opposition and is subordinate, subordinated to to United States. They are completely uncapable to carry out a coup d'etat against our government. No, So they don't have any capacity to do nothing.
They are completely new in Venezuela. Well, that is why the President Trump, he changed his narrative and now he's speaking about this extravagant history, about the cartelo de Los soles and the narcos state, which is completely crazy history. I think even in the United States, the people doesn't believe in this history. He's looking for the support of the Congress, the support of the internal politics in USA in order to perform an aggression against Venezuela. But he wasn't able.
And to finish with this part, it is important to mention that in my opinion, I think it's completely clear this strategy is planified. Let's see. Or leaded by Marcos, Rubio more than the President Trump. OK, but what's the reason for this? And is this because he wants regime change to get rid of a socialist government? Or is this because the US wants access to oil and other raw materials? I think it's both of them. It's both of them.
First of all, of course they are supporting a change regime in Venezuela. They, if they can't put some puppet like they have in another country, Latin America, they will feel much better or happier than Nile. But of course, the main aim or the main objective of the of any regime in United State is to appropriate of our resource. We don't have to forget that Venezuela has the biggest oil
reserve around the world. But also we have the gold, we have aluminium, we have iron, we have gas, we have rare earth, we have many, many resource. We have a lot of water and we have a lot of land. So of course, the main objective of any administration, US administration, is to put their hand on our resource. Yeah, it's, it's interesting you mentioned rare earths, because of course part of the argument between the United States and China at the moment is over
access to rare earths. So what kind of rare earth resources does Venezuela actually have? We we have some of them, we are still exploring the the presence of the rare earth. You know that the rare earth are in in a very small amount in that is why the name is rare earth. We have discovered around four or five rare earth. Of course, the most difficult part of the rare earth is not the extraction of sorry, it's not the explosion is always is also the extraction of them.
But we are they are thinking in the in the future. And you, you mentioned that Venezuela has the largest oil reserves on the planet. That that's something I actually didn't know. And looking at the statistics, Venezuela apparently is more oil than Saudi Arabia.
So I can see why that would make Venezuela a significant target for the United States. Yes, of course, we have more than 300 billion barrel as a reserve and you know most of the refineries in United States, they were built considering our oil, the medium heavy oil, they need our oil. So of course, the main interest of United States is always the economy. Behind all of the war, behind all of the treating, behind all of the strategy of United State,
That is the economy as we know. You mentioned Marco Rubio there. Why do you think he's particularly interested in regime change as opposed to, for example, others in the Trump administration? Yes, because he is completely obsessed against Venezuela, against Cuba, against Nicaragua. You know that he's the boss of the Latin lobbying in Florida and in Florida has a very important role in any election. So next year there is the midterm election in your in US.
Apparently the number of the, the support in Florida is decreasing for Trump. So he want to show the President Trump that he is able to, to do something against Venezuela. He's he's obsessive with, with Venezuela. And my personal opinion, that's my personal opinion, there is a big internal confrontation in the Trump administration. There is 2 parts. There is the deep state part, which is Marcos Rubio is part of this deep state.
And there is another part of the businessman, the new very pragmatic businessman, that is the very rich people. Marcos Rubio is not part of this establishment. And there is a big confrontation between these two parts, between the deep state and the new pragmatic rich people, businessmen. So I think it's completely, it's very clear that after Trump, one of the aspiration of Marcos, Rubio and even Vans, they want to be the candidate for the Republicans for the next election.
So there is a an internal issue and when US has some internal programme, they used to look for an external enemy to distract their population and their people. But the problem is inside United States to add some information. Why? How you can explain for example, that after the President Trump reached an agreement with the Venezuelan government, with the President Maduro to exchange some people, the the young people immigrant that they sent to El Salvador from United States.
We did an agreement to exchange those people for 10 criminals, American criminals that that they were judged and they were in the gaol in Venezuela. And after this agreement, immediately the President Trump renew the licence to the Chevron company to keep their operation in Venezuela. So how you can explain? So after these two fact, they immediately start to to treat Venezuela to send the ship warships to Venezuela to speak about the narco state.
So how you can reach an agreement with the narco state is a is a narrative of course. Yes, indeed. Now look, I want to come on to in a second to the opposition that exists in Venezuela and you've already mentioned one name in particular. But before I do that I just wanted to ask you what your view of Britain's position is in all this and whether Britain is has any role in pushing an anti Venezuelan narrative at the moment as well.
Yes, there is. You know, I think in in the war there is a new geopolitical world, let's say that is burning. Of course, this new the the new system or the new geopolitical world that is is burning the British, the British government is gains. Of course, they want to keep their hegemony around the world. And one of the biggest enemy of the new world there of Russia of China of everything that has relationship with the new world is the the UK regime. Let's say, you know, the British
regime. So of course Venezuela is part of this new supporter of the of the new world, which is necessary. This system is done. This all the system, all the Germany is done. It's a matter of time. Gramsci, he used to say that when something new has to born but doesn't born and something old has to die and doesn't die, that is the monsters and this
monster. We can see this monster in in Israel for for example, we can see this monster around the world that they are trying to avoid the born of the of the new world. But the new world will born very soon is born in and Venezuela is part of this war. Of course, anyone who doesn't want or the the new world we're do a blackmail or sabotage on on this process.
And UK is one of them. Probably UK was the supporting in a very strong way Juan Guaido and Maria Machado and they are supporting the the puppet president of of Guyana is promoting a war against Venezuela. So was the UK government who the the main supporter of this idea? Well, let's talk about the opposition inside Venezuela then for a second, because you mentioned President Obama being a Nobel Peace Prize recipient. Of course, Maria Machado has now also received a Nobel Peace Prize.
She's a recipient. Is she a peacemaker? Absolutely no. If we if we see the background of this lady, first of all, we have to say that the the Nobel Peace Prize is completely devaluated. They it lost all of the credibility around the world. If you see who won the Nobel Peace Prize from one time ago, Kissinger, Obama people that doesn't have any relationship with peace doesn't have any credibility. But in this case, I think it's the cherry of the on the cake.
No, with the case of Maria Machado, because Maria Machado, if you see his background or in Venezuela, she was calling for an invasion against Venezuela. She was calling for aggression against Venezuela. She was calling to block Venezuela, to treat Venezuela. Actually, she supported the policy of Trump to send the Venezuelan immigrant to El
Salvador to the gaol. And recently, just few days ago, before the politic party of Maria Corina Machado Vente, Venezuela signed an agreement with the Likud Party of Israel, the politic party of Netanyahu sharing the ideology. Can you imagine? Some people that share the ideology of Netanyahu win a Nobel Prize is quite crazy.
But recently, after the they announced the extravagant announced that she won the no, the Nobel Peace Prize, she called the the President Trump and she called Netanyahu the Prime Minister of Israel to congratulate him for the genocide in Gaza. So this is Malia Corina Machado. This is the the, the symbol, she is the symbol of the aggression.
She is the sign ball of the violence so doesn't has any relationship with the with the peace and is a very weak favour that the Nobel committed did against the Nobel Peace Prize.
Unfortunately, to say something in Venezuela, no one is speaking about this prize or this award doesn't have any importance in Venezuela. If you look the news in Venezuela, no one is speaking, only the boats, the boats that Maria Corina have on the social media and in the United States, most of them live in the United States.
They have, they manage the social media and they have a big boats in all social media and they are trying to replay and to speak and to keep the Nobel Peace Prize on on the news. But no one is speaking. Venezuela didn't have any impact in Venezuela. Actually, I think the impact that this Nobel Peace Prize had in Venezuela was to unite the people against this attitude. So who's behind her?
Does she have any particular support in Venezuela and is she in fact has rumoured funded or working for the CIA? No, she doesn't have any support inside Venezuela and just a very, very small part of let's say of, of the of our society supported, but very small part because Venezuela is a peacefully country. Everyone that has been in Venezuela know that the Venezuelan love the peace. Even if we are ready, we, we defend, we defend our sovereignty, our independence in a very strong way.
We have very peacefully people. So we don't like this kind of leadership. She's supported by the CIA, of course. And let's say something there is a a guy you can look for for him or you can read a little bit about him is Thor Harbour saying, I don't remember very well his name. He's the Norwegian Venezuelan origin. He's working for a foundation in Norway. And he was one of the biggest supporter of Mala Corina Machado, the the Nobel committed prize. So he paid a lot of money.
Unfortunately, I have to say that, you know, I am chemist, this is my, my origin. So I am a scientist origin and I know from from where this prize is coming or this prize is coming from who was Nobel. So I am very sad to say that this prize is using to manipulate, to promote the war, to promote the aggression, to support the aggression around the world best. But this prize has a price you have to pay to get it and Tor Harborson.
He is one of the biggest supporter of Maria Corina Machado in Norway. It's often a case, it seems, that opposition figures are supported by tax exempt foundation money, and I just wondered to what degree these foundations are being used by deep state organisations to effectively launder foreign state funding of opposition parties in countries like Venezuela where regime changes
desired. Yes, especially this part of the opposition, you know, is it's funny when I, when I listen someone from the US administration or UK speaking about the laundry money, about drugs, about the narco traffic. If you see, you can study or evaluate in which country normally the people used to laundry money or when the corrupt, the corrupt people used to send their money. I will, I will not because I'm diplomatic. So I have to be careful about what I'm saying.
I don't want to mention any countries, but you can see which country is a paradise, a fiscal paradise for the larger money. Most of them who don't say, all of them are under control of UK or or US. So how Venezuela for example, can larger money, if we are blocked in the financial system, what means larger money, clean money is use the financial system, the formal financial system to put your money that you get or you got for illegal business to clean it and put it
in a formal financial system. So how Venezuela will do to do that if we are blocked from the formal financial system? So it's just a narrative, you know, to create a narrative. Of course, today is very easy to confuse the people. I was speaking yesterday with some friends about how the social media is affecting, is affecting the information and the education of the people, because the people just read the, the, the, the, the sentence, the news, the, the
title. That doesn't look for the they don't go deepest in the information to understand what is happening. So it's very easy to manipulate the people. Actually, Mike, I got many congratulations for many good friends that they support the Venezuelan government. They are with us and they congratulate me for the Nobel Peace Prize. You know that that means that there is a big confusion,
ignorance. But we don't have to criticise, We really have to take action to take measures to avoid this kind of confusion in between the people. OK. So you're based in Lebanon at the moment, and so I'd like to learn a little bit more about your experiences in that region and what you see Venezuela's role being in the Middle East at the moment.
You spent you also spent a number of years as ambassador to Syria, but clearly you're not in the basket at the moment because there's been a regime change there. So tell us a little bit about your experiences in Syria and how you see that part of the world at the moment, and what do you perhaps see for the immediate future?
Yes, it's, it's quite complicated the situation in all of the Middle East. You know, we Venezuela, as a founder of OPEC, we have a very good relationship with all of the countries in the West Asia or Middle East, as the people used to say. We have a very strong relationship with the Gulf countries, with Syria, with Lebanon. We have a very huge call Syria and Lebanese community in Venezuela. So our relationship is historical, you know, in the new
configuration of the world. That is maybe my personal analysis about the situation. China has a key role, especially in the economy, because the the the main, the, the control of the United States around the world is the economy. That is the way how they control the world. Otherwise they they can't. And that is why Trump is focused in the, in the tax, in the what is the Iran say less. I forgot the word in English that he's trying to support everywhere. He put tariffs on, on China, on
on many countries. No, because he need, he need the, the to keep the strong in the dollar, the force of the dollar around the world. So China has a huge project, the Silk and Road project, which is very important. And this project goes from China to Africa, going throughout the Middle East. If you see with Netanyahu, the speech of Netanyahu one year ago in the UN, he was speaking, he showed to Mark well, he spoke about the blessing and he spoke
about the every countries. The every countries was the countries that maybe avoid the hegemony of United States in the region. And the blessing are the countries that support, I will not say which country because we have a very good relationships or the the politics of US state or they are a very strong ally of US state. So just look the arrow that he showed on the map, he show an arrow from the South of East Asia until Europe.
So if you see the arrow, there is a region that this arrow is going through, which is Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan. So they need to control this region. In order to write my personal opinion, Mike, in order to block China, that is my personal opinion. In order to block China, to increase the influence of US and
UK in the region. Of course, the leadership of UK, they ignore the history of the West Asia normally, but UK, the leader of the UK, they know very well the the history of the West Asia. That is why now they are playing a very, I mean the UK administration. They are playing a very important role around this region to don't mention countries, no, but around very close to to to this region. So what is the future of this region? It's not clear in my opinion.
It's not clear, I don't think maybe you can you can conclude that Israel is winning the war because they killed leadership like Nasser, Al Ali. They've lead, they've fallen down Syrian regime after 54 years of the Baath Party regime. So they they have killed some leadership of the of Hamas.
You can conclude that Israel is winning, but for me it's not clear because how you can explain, for example, if you have devastated the Gaza region, how you can explain that you were not able to find the hostage? How how you can explain that you start the war and you say the the aim of the war is to end Hamas and take control of Gaza. And they didn't end Hamas and they didn't took the control of of Gaza. So how they want this, this war?
I think the attack on Doha, on Qatar was the big trap for Netanyahu. I don't know if you saw the speech of Trump in the Knesset when he said he suggests the president of Israel, you have to pardon the Prime Minister Netanyahu. He has been the best Prime Minister during the history, the world Prime Minister on the history. So you have to pardon him. He's exposing Netanyahu and see he say that. And Trump, it's true that he's ignorant in the history, but
he's very smart in in politics. And I think he was exposing Netanyahu as he exposed the Maria Machado some days ago when when he said, I don't know her, but she was quite nice when she called, she called me. Of course he knows her, but he wanted to send a message that she's nothing. It's the same with Netanyahu. So what will happen in the next years in the middle in, in the West Asia? In my opinion, it's not, it's not clear.
It's not clear. You know, you have to know the history of Syria. Syrian people, they will never ever accept extremist government. They they used to accept or they love the secular government. They used to live in a multi confessional society during many, many years. So it's so difficult, the situation in Syria right now. I don't know how the the new regime will be able to manage this situation with the extremist fighters, foreigners, fighters present in Syria, but
we'll see. It's not this. Do you think the Syrian people will accept the new regime there on a long term basis and do you think they have any ability to remove the extremist elements from the country? It's, it's, it's quite difficult the situation because you know, immediately after the falling down of the, the President Bashar just, I was in Syria at that moment, immediately Israel start to bombing all of the militant infrastructure.
So right now Syria doesn't have a strong defence system. First of all, no, Secondly, they need now after 14 years of war, the people is quite tired because the, the economy, economy in Syria is completely devastated. It's completely destroyed. I don't want to speak a lot about Syria because my condition is just explaining what is completely clear for everyone. So the economy is is, it is so
complicated right now. So the new government has a huge challenge, first of all is to improve the economy because OK West has offer or has done many, many offer the West to Syria. But what is this offer? Where are the projects that they are ready to support exactly with the Gulf countries?
So they first of all, they need the stability and to, to, to stabilise the stability in Syria right now, you need a big reconciliation project between the society that is the, there is very, very deep pain in the society in Syria. So you have to work in and it's, it's a challenge, it's a big challenge. I'm sure that Syria is a, an historical civilisation, it's struggle of civilisation. So of course they will find a way, but it's not easy.
And what about Lebanon, because obviously Lebanon is threatened North and South potentially. So do you think is there a danger to Lebanon? In the coming months, We could see attacks from the Syrian side of the border and even more attacks from the Israeli side of the border. No, I think the the treaty for for Lebanon is the same of the Middle East. Is is Israel. Israel just bombed a few minutes ago I think I was reading some news and they bombed it Has they have been bombed the South of
Lebanon in the last days. So the treatment for for Lebanon is Israel the new government of Lebanon. He is doing a a very good job in order to keep the unity of Lebanon. There is a big treating to Lebanon from the foreigner. If you read the the article, I don't know how to call this this article of the special envoy of United States, Tom Barack about Lebanon and Syria. You know, they speak as a king. No, they speak as a king. They give just ultimatum to to Lebanon government, to Syrian
government. They say what you have to say because otherwise you will get bombed, bombing by by Israel. So I don't think the problem will be Syria. I think the problem in Lebanon is Israel is clearly is right. Coming back to Venezuela itself, what role does Venezuela have in Latin America? And I'm just wondering what can Venezuela do to provide any kind of stability, any kind of counter to the sort of narratives that we're seeing
from Western governments? Yes, you know, if you see the position of the President Petro, the President of Colombia, Gustavo Petro, or the position of the President of Brazil, Lula da Silva. In the last speech, they have spoken a lot about the Venezuelan right to to live in peace, to find the solution, to respect the sovereignty, the self determination of Venezuela. They have spoken a lot, a lot about the the peace in the Caribbean Sea, in the Caribbean
regional, you know, we have around 2000 kilometre border between Colombia and Venezuela and we have around two 2200 kilometres border with Brazil. So our border is huge. Any problem in Venezuela, of course, will affect immediately Brazil and Colombia. The President Petro and the President Lula, they speak because not all because they are defending only Venezuela, but also they are preserving the stability of their countries for Colombia and Brazil.
Any situation in Venezuela will affect all of South America, not only Brazil and Colombia, but also the rest of of not South America, even the Caribbean under Central America. Venezuela has a very important role, not only because they're a geographic location. Venezuela is in the north of South America. So Venezuela is a kind of bridge between South America and North America, first of all.
Secondly, we have a big relationship with many, many political groups in South America and Latin America in general. Don't forget that from the moment when the President Chavez reached to the presidents of Venezuela, we start to work and to configure a kind of net political net around all of Latin America. So of course the some government change from the left side to the right side, but we keep our relationship with the society.
So any problem in Venezuela will affect all of the Latin America. I want to be very, very honest and very human by saying that it's not because we believe that we are very important to know. It's because we have a very important role among among the history of Latin America. So Venezuela is an important actor in Latin America, of course. And the United States knows very well that Trump, President Trump, he knows very well the role of Venezuela.
He said some days ago, now I have gave the green light for the CIA to act in Venezuela. The CIA is acting in Latin America from 6078 years ago. No, it's not acting from, it's not recent. So he's a kind of of a play of game to say that no, we are still acting against Venezuela, but he knows very well that there is a red line with Venezuela. OK. That's an interesting point. But obviously there've been a direct attacks over the last couple of weeks.
And the question is, do you see this escalating from here on? With Trump, you never know. With Trump, you never know. He can change his mind just in 2 minutes, even though from one day to another day, even in just the means. He said something, he had a meeting with the president of Argentina. He offered to him financial help and immediately the next day he said that Argentina is in a big
problem, in a big troubles. So you'll never know what to expect of Trump but you know they his bizarre when you see that they are sending warships, submarines, missiles to the Caribbean sea to bombing the small the small boat. So doesn't make sense. You're expending a huge amount of money just to bombing a small small boat. And something happened 2-3 days ago which is very interesting to analyse. They bombed a boat and they were able to cut 2 guys, one from Colombia and one from.
Ecuador, they sent back those guys to Ecuador and Colombia. We were we were looking for the background of the guy from Ecuador and the guy from Ecuador. He was sentenced in United States five years ago. No one or two years ago for five years for for drug traffic.
And then they sent back the guy, the Ecuador, the Ecuador guy to Ecuador. And immediately the governor, the governor of Ecuador, Novoa, he gave him the freedom and this guy, they, he was catched recently by the US and they sent back to Ecuador. Why is this? It's quite bizarre. No, because he was judged in in US state for for the traffic of drug. So you cut again this guy and you send back again to Ecuador. Ecuador again send him, put him out of the gaol.
It's something strange. Now, I'll appreciate it if you don't want to answer this question, but obviously there've been persistent allegations of CIA themselves being involved in drug trafficking. Do you think that that might have might give us a hint as to why this guy was released? I will tell you my personal opinion about this operation of the of the Marco Rubio has a historic relationship with the the Nartos, especially from Colombia. No, one of the strongest ally is Uribe's Uribe.
He was the president of Venezuela and he he is one of the biggest boss of the cartel in Colombia. He's very strong ally of Marco Rubio. Marco Rubio has been financed by by the cartel. What is my personal opinion? My personal opinion why they are sending ships, warships to the Caribbean if more than 85% of the drugs go to United States through the Pacific Ocean? The biggest drug producer is Colombia and the second biggest
one are Ecuador and Peru. 100% of the drugs is is produced in Colombia, Ecuador and Peru. More than 85% of this drug goes to the United States through the Pacific Ocean. So why you are sending the the warships and this operative all big operation to the Caribbean? In my opinion, they want to control the business. So they want to warrant that the drug reach United States throughout the Pacific Ocean. That is the first, the first objective of Marco Rubio.
That is why I, I say from at the beginning that this operation is supported mainly by Marcos Rubio. And, and the second thing I say again, my personal opinion, this is a trap from Marco Rubio to Trump, because Trump ignore what is happening in Venezuela, he ignore what is happening in Colombia, in Ecuador or in Peru. Marcos Rubio is taking advantage from his Cuban origin. He speak Spanish very fluently.
So he's taking advantage of this to put Trump in a trouble with Latin American and in my opinion is a big trouble. But Trump, he knows also what he's doing. He he he is ignorant of the history, but he is smart again. OK, well, our time is almost up. I'd like to say a massive thank you for speaking to me today. That's been a hugely interesting conversation. I hope we can do this again at
some point in the future. But if people want to find out more about Venezuela, is there somewhere that they can go to get information about the country, which is a little more objective than we get from the Western media? It's difficult. It's difficult to get
information normally. It's so difficult because even if you look for YouTube, for example, let's say one, one example, biggest one of the biggest social media like YouTube, they block the the channel of the president Maduro, they block the channel of the minister of interior, Gonzalo Cabelloso. They shadow ban all of the information. So the best source is just to to look for the information coming from the Venezuelan government
because we are objective. For example, I was speaking with some friend this morning with ambassadors, friend of of me. They say what is your why you don't sell oil to United States? Say come on, we are sending oil to United States. We don't have any problem with for sending oil to United States, but they have to pay the oil. The problem is that if United States want to get the oil for free, they will not get the oil for free.
And if they give a, they gave a licence to Chevron, if they gave a licence to Shell, which is Auka British company to explode the gas between Trinidad and Tobago and Venezuela. So we don't have any problem of sending oil to United States or to anywhere else. But you have to pay if you for for free, you will not get it. So it's just a big manipulation about the information. So to tell you yes, to tell you where we can find information mics is so difficult.
Maybe I will. I will put some some web page in in my source, in my my post, in my eggs, in my Instagram to tell the people. Please if you want to see information, write information about Venezuela, look this web page. Well, let's see, let's see what happens when we put this interview on YouTube and see how long it stays on there for. Thank you again very much for joining me today, Jose. That's been a hugely interesting conversation and I hope we can speak again soon.
No, thank you. Thank you Michael for this opportunity and whatever you want or your staff, your people, I am ready to to to bring the, the true Venezuela.