A good opening question is why is this such a difficult nut to crack? Well, I think there are many reasons, but most of all it's, it's China is culturally distant. It's geographically and culturally distant from most of the Western, especially Anglo English speaking world, right. You know from where you are, you are, you are. Even though South Africa is part of the BRICS, we're still a continent apart. And you know, forget about America. It's like this whole Pacific Ocean.
And a lot of people, there's just a lot of general ignorance about China. And because of that, I think to fill in the blank, it's easy for propaganda to take take its place, to take place of like real information. A lot of people, they will have 4 very strong opinions about China. Even though they may have never been to China or they don't read Chinese.
So they, they receive a lot of so-called, you know, receive wisdoms from their media or from, you know, quote UN quote alternative news channel they trust, which might not always be the, you know, most objective and impartial. That's what why we're here, right? Because I'm, I'm trying to provide some Chinese perspective as a person who was born in China, you know, back in 1976 after one month after Mao died. So I grew up in China. As good old days. Yeah, like good old good old
days. Like I I grew up in China as the first post Cultural Revolution. Chinese, Yeah. I can tell you all about the good old days. And so I, I have, I have my perspective. I, I grew up in China in the 1980s. I have a very happy childhood. You know, I, This is why I've always have very fond memories of China. And I, I, I, you know, I've been visiting, visiting China on and off. Last time I was there, it was this year, in fact, in, in April, April and early May.
So, and every time I, I go there, it's actually like a visiting a different place because the, the pace of change in China happened so rapidly. I remember the the the former Czech president, what's his name, Pavel Havel, he said China changed so fast for us, changes too fast for us to be astonished. And I think that's exactly it, because a lot of the people, they may have heard from someone who been to China maybe in the 1990s or in the early 2000, but
that China is gone. That's that China doesn't exist anymore. That's. Like because it's it's. China had changed so fast, it might as well be like a generation ago, right? Like my, my little cousin who were more than 20 years apart and her, the world she grew up in in China is completely different world from the one I grew up in. And, and she is actually the, the zoomer population of China or the late millennials in China. They are the first generation in China that grew up in with
abundance with like. They can take abundance for granted. When I grew up in China, let me tell you, I I had to live with ration papers. I live in an age with rations where you need ration paper for everything, for rice, for sugar, for cooking oil. And my, my, my, my auntie would send me to at that time. You can't just go to a supermarket to get rice, you go
to government. Government approved rice station to get rice with your ration papers and I I, I get most of the ration in the family because that was a growing teenager, so actually get the most allotment of rice. And I will be the one who tasked to go to the government rice station to haul back like, you know, 20 kilos of rice back home. Yeah, of course, I back then there's also no car. So I I did it all. Like on my back and walking up and down the mountains.
Back in the days, yeah. No, I'm not. Kidding. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding about up and down the mountains, by the way, because I live in, yeah, I live in Chongqing. Chongqing, for people who don't know, it's a very mountainous city. The whole city is built on top of the mountains. So there's a quite great variation of elevation within the city. So like the, the Rice Nation is actually like, it's like I have to climb to go to the rice station and come back down.
So I I was not kidding about going up the mountains to get rice. Yeah, call just before we go any further because you know, we have to bring this up. You and I are obviously both funded by the CCP and we, we are we are government shells. So everything that we say is, of course, Chinese propaganda. Yes, I'm, I'm still waiting for my checks to clear from Xi Jinping. I told him to put put in the mail last time, but you know, I'm still waiting for that to clear.
Yeah. Also, I deliberately said CCP because we know that that is the, that's the dog whistle. If someone says CCP we we already know that we have to look at them with the, with the, with the, with the, with an evil eye. Right, it's true. I mean the official English translation is Communist Party of China, so CPC. I mean in Chinese it doesn't really matter but I think in English they every time they mention CCP it's like. CCP is going to take over the world. CCP is sabotaging your
government. CCP is listening to you. But you know what? That's the point. That's the point called when the the term CCP originates, I think out of the West. Not If someone says CPC, you know that they probably know something about China, right? Correct. That's fair. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, I, I have a Direct Line to Xi Jinping, right? I get my, that's where I get my instructions, they told me. To go to Germs Show this week, you're going to you're going to
receive your. Or else you're going to be shot. Yes, yes. But that's the other thing about trying to that's the other thing about trying to debunk myths like this. So I'm fascinated by by China. As somebody who is an African, the whole world fascinates me because we are so behind everything, right? And for the longest time called I believed all the nonsense about China and, and it's only in recent years we are decided. I wanted to challenge my own understanding what I had been
fed. And it's almost like it's completely inverted. It's easy. It's easy to to believe because, you know, otherwise a lot of people just don't have any information about China. So you kind of whoever fills that blank sheet is going to, you know that. And usually that's the mainstream legacy media or some quote, UN quote alternative media that turns out to be founded by like NEDUSAID or, you know, all these three letter agencies.
And, and those, those, those are ones that actually doing the most numbers on, on place like YouTube, because they're also kind of tell people what they want to hear. Because especially as China start to rise and China's grow in importance in the world now there's a lot of copium that's been produced about China, especially in the West.
You know, like they, they don't want to, you know, they, they don't want the, the automatic is almost automatic rejection to reject anything positive about China. People kind of put a like a negative spin on it.
There must be something kind of like there's there's there's must be some dark insidious reason behind the rise of China and there must be like some bad, potentially ominous impact of rise of China. And I think it's also serves to distract from the political realities at home, particularly in the West. I mean, especially in USI work. That's that's a place where I live for almost 30 years.
And and I think for most Americans living in the US, it's obvious to them the place is dysfunctional. I mean, we have a freaking TV reality TV show. Host as a president and then, and then. But what they don't want you to? See, is that OK, that China is doing something differently, you know, rather than plowing trillions of dollars into funding wars around the world that you can actually invest in your own infrastructure and education and propel the country forward?
They don't want you to think about that. You know, instead they, they put out the information to convince you, yes, yes, United States might be bad, yes, yes, Europe might be dysfunctional, but China is much, much worse, much, much darker. Do not look to China as an alternative. Don't do it. You know, it's, it's bad. It's it's, it's worse, in fact. So I think that that's the purpose of those propaganda.
And This is why I highly encourage people to actually go travel to China, you know, to, to, to let your lying eyes convince you, you know what, what is reality? I mean you. You. You, you kind of travel to the periphery of China. Hong Kong is part of China now. It's still a little bit different from mainland China, but at least you got there. You know, you, you, you, you have, you have seen. You have seen what the yeast is like. Unlike most people. But Carl, you know that
someone's going to ask. Yes, but why then did you leave China? Why are you living in the US? OK, that's, that's a good question. That's a fair question. Well, my dad traveled to United States in 1985. He was the first post Cultural Revolution generation of Chinese students that was sent abroad. So back in the 1980s. Then Xiaoping said, OK, we, we got to send Chinese students are brought to learn because like China has fallen behind in in science and in development.
So we need to go to to send students to the Western countries to learn advanced technology, learn the, the, the advanced management methods, you know, whatever. But he and he also said, I understand most of them will never come back just because in the 1980s China was very poor and obviously you can get much more paying jobs in the West. You say it's okay. It's okay that most of them don't come back. Even if 20% of them do come back, that would be a net plus for us.
You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's better than 0. And so my dad did go to United States to study for his PhD and they brought me to US in 1989. So 1989 was the, the year of the Tiananmen Square protest. So my dad did not agree with the government, how the government handled the Tiananmen Square protest. So they decide not to come back to China. And then they brought me to United States. So that's, that's how I, I ended up in US as a teenager and like I was 13 years old.
And, and one thing that start to change, though, is by, I think most of them, my dad's Chinese classmates, they also stay in the US after they graduated, they went to the, you know, they got green card, got citizenship, this they joined the US corporate world. But after about 10 or 20 years, many of them kind of hit like. Hit the the glass. Ceiling or or or bamboo ceiling because they find themselves can no longer rise to the top to the top management for various
reasons. And then then this coincided around 2000, early 2000 to 2010 when Chinese economy start taking off. So many, the most ambitious one do return to China because they realize in China the sky is the limit. They can, they can be CE OS, they can be founder of companies. You know, there's not, none of that restriction they face in the West. You know, like example, I I think for people might be familiar with is the founder of TSMC Taiwan Semiconductors, Morris Chen.
I mean, this, this he's he went to Taiwan by very similar circumstances. So, so Morris Chen was born in China then he when he was a little kid, you know, he, he immigrated to the United States because the communists won on mainland and he was, you know, he was a very important top management in, in Texas Instrument, which is a big tech company in United States. But after a while, he realized he wants a top job. He wants the CEO.
But after, afterwards, even though after all everything he did for Texas Instrument, he realized they're not going to give him that top job, you know, And so, you know, whether because he's Chinese or whatever, but he wasn't going to get that top job. And at that time, the Taiwan government approached him and said, hey, we're going to give
you tons of money. We're going to give you a lot of tax incentives for you to open the semiconductor business in Taiwan. You know, using your experience in the industry and your connections in USI think we can make a success. So that's what he did. So now Taiwan Semiconductors is like the one of the most valuable firm in the world because they produce the most advanced semiconductor chips that everybody needs. But this this same kind of process was playing out with
mainland China as well. A lot of the Chinese talent went back to China, China because that's where the opportunity is that that's where they can, you know, they, they, they can get higher achievement. And this is kind of the fundamental understanding the West about China stealing technology, quote, UN quote. I mean, I'm pretty sure industrial espionage does happen. I mean, that that happened everywhere.
But the real process of knowledge transfer is these Chinese students who were sent out by Deng Xiaoping back in the 80s, even though Deng Xiaoping knew most of them will not return within his lifetime, but many of them did after 2220 tens when China economy start taking off and they brought back the knowledge and you know, the experience again, working the Western companies and that, that's, that's kind of the main, main driver for, for kind of the, the, the, the, the, the
technology transfer that did take place between China and West. And I don't know, I, I, I feel like I went off on tangent because we're, I'm worried I'm you're just going everywhere. But but it doesn't. Matter No your your your espionage comment is actually very good because the Chinese hyper what what do you call them hyper fast rail railways trains that they are currently building yeah yeah apparently a lot of that tech comes from Japan now I don't really have a. Problem and Germany.
Yeah, I don't have a problem with this because it's better for people. Well, well that that technology is not stolen. That was bought. It was when so back in 2000 O 8, when China started to this massive banishing of their high speed rail project, they invited different Western companies to bid for the project. So including Simon's from Germany, the including Japan, including Bombardier from Canada. And the condition is, OK, we're going to give you this huge
contract. But our condition is you must produce in China. You, you, you must, we, we might, you have must have given like license production in China and you must do technology transfer. So this is all about the table like as a, as a condition for market access to China, you got to do technology transfer. And and all these company, they kind of weigh the pro and cons, but they couldn't say no to shit tons of money.
They say OK, yeah, well, I mean, not only transfer that, that, that, that you know that that will take time, you know that the money money we can get it now. And So what happened is China was able to absorb this different technology from Japan, from Germany, and after 5-10 years they were able to indigenize the technology. And now China is exporting high speed rail across the world. But from the very beginning was very above the table.
It was like any foreign firms who come to China, you have to do now technology transfer is part of the deal as a condition for giving you the market access. Now China was able to demand that because China was big market and a big giant pool of cheap labor. That's the main draw for a lot of Western multinationals to do business in China age but. They're all slaves, Call. Yeah, it's all slaves. Of course, of course, of course. I mean the that is that kind of. Mean kind of persist to today,
right? I mean, China, it got to where they are because they're all slave labor. I remember reading a tweet from Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert comic, right? I, I, I love Dilbert. I used to read Dilbert. But he said she a decent guy. He, I mean, he's, he's a well educated American, right? He's you can't say he's ignorant. He's a well educated like, like you can't consider sort of public intellectual in in United United States.
But he said, you know, so the oh, oh, when, when everybody move on to robotics on automation, you know, China is going to be screwed because they're going to be screwed out of their advantage in cheap labor. Now, this is just ignorance about China because if you actually look at the statistics, China employed more industrial robots today than the rest of the world combined. And and they. Actually, you know their.
Factories, they have like lights off factories like entirely automated assembly lines at putting together EVs, putting together cars. So, so China is well prepared for, for automation. It's much more prepared in automation than say United States because US don't have manufacturing anymore. China they're actually applying robotic AI and and robotics in their advanced manufacturing. This is why China is presenting a bigger threat now to a lot of
their Western competitors. Is This is why you can get more China threat articles in the West because of that, you know, they talk about Chinese over capacity made in China 2025 how China is going to like, you know, take over the world because it's the government subsidized everything. It's unfair competition. But look if Chinese government. Trump's going to save the world. Tariffs call. Tariffs are going to save everybody.
I think, I think only, only only some segment Americans believe that at this point, but you know, because there's, it's such low information. I mean, I don't, I can't speak about South Africa, but I, I went through the, the American public education system. I can tell you the American public education system is crap. They they, they like, like like.
Mark Twin said you know if you are, if you well, he said about newspaper, he said, you know, if you if you don't, if you don't read newspapers, you are ignorant. If you if you read newspapers, then you're misinformed and. But this is how American education works. If you don't go to school, you're not educated, but if you go to school, you're mis educated. So, so you're there's no win situation. And, and but we have. This is why how we got Trump in
the office. This in the 1st place, but the The thing is there's a lot of projection when the West talk about China, they're they're talking about China as a country per SE. They're talking about China more as a foil as like a projection of their worst fears, right.
And like when a lot of time when especially United States, when they talk about China, it's almost 100%, you know, projection, you know, when they talk about China as a, as a, as a dystopian surveillance state, for example, right? And with the social credit system? With the social credit system, right and, and, but in reality, Trump just authorized the private company Palantir to access all the US government records. Like look first of all as as a person who hold US passport at
this moment. I don't care if China get my data because China don't have jurisdiction over me. Chinese government can't do anything to me. But I've been more concerned when the NSA read my e-mail and and volunteer have all my data because they can't get me, you know, they I have to pay taxes to Uncle Sam. They can. They can get me for one reason or another and. And and and and and and also the social credit system is not a thing in China.
It's it's a myth. There's there's no such thing as social credit system. I mean, you might. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Sorry, Carl, let me just let me jump in there because this happens all the time. I have, I have these discussions constantly and this is the response I get. Well, you don't live in China. How would you know? OK, fine. So let me speak to somebody who's in China. No, you can't speak to somebody who's in China because they're in China.
And so therefore the government, the government is watching them. Right, right. It's like that. This is the thing when I talk about about China to people and and people will insist that no, no, no, Carl, you don't, you don't know what's really going on in China. We we, we know more about China than you because we have the Freedom of Information, because we have a free. Internet. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, look, look, I I lived in US for 30 years.
I can access the same information as you do, except I actually grew up in China and traveled to China speaks the language. Right. And so it's because sometimes I think what it is, is people are being conditioned to think about China in a certain way. If you challenge their long held belief, it's like you're challenging their identity, right?
I mean like for, for you know, people who are open minded, such as yourself, Sir, you know you, you know, you sometimes you, you, you receive information, you are able to absorb it, you know, even challenge your pre-existing biases. But for most people, I think, you know, when they find their, their long held belief get challenged, they get very defensive because it's almost like a challenge to their, you know, whole world system. Suddenly their whole whole
belief system get challenged. It's their challenge to our identity. So they get very, very defensive about that. And and so again, I just say just travel to China. People like just go, it's very easy now for people in the West, especially if you're in the European Union, you know, many of the EU country, you get like 30 days visa free visit to China, you know, but unfortunately for. The BRICS.
Condition though. On condition though, there's an armed Chinese soldier who will be with you 24 hours a day and he will only take you to places that are designated. That's correct. And if you go? Off the course they will shoot you and they will build your family for the bullets and for the next 3. Generations. And so, you know, for, for, for the people you know, who, who could afford to travel to China, who you know, can get visa very easily.
I, I do highly recommend you go check it out for yourself to see if it's really like how they portray it in the, you know, you know, mainstream media, you know, go ahead. When you when you and I were in Hong Kong last year, I saw absolutely no social credit system. Right. Well, Hong Kong is a little bit different germs because Hong Kong function under what's
so-called 1 country 2 system. And that's, that means when, when Hong Kong was handed over to China in 1997, returned to China in 1997 from being a British colony, one of the condition was that that that China promised was that they will keep Hong Kong system as is.
So, you know, whatever Hong Kong operated under, you know, under British, they wouldn't they will leave that alone, you know, so, so in effect, you will just be the British and colonial governors that's leaving the the other part of Hong Kong. They will they will leave it alone. So, so Hong Kong do it is a little bit different in the, in the fact that like many Chinese citizens from mainland to travel to Hong Kong, they actually need to apply for a visa.
They they actually need to apply for a travel permit. And and then they have, once you're in Hong Kong, there's no great Firewall. You know, you can access Internet, whatever free. So, so, so there's some difference. You know, obviously China, they do have censorship. They do have the great firewall, but I think. I mean, it's not utopia, that's the point. Yeah, yeah. It's just it's. Like people need to real. Country. Exactly exactly you have.
It's not official, it's not totalitarian, it's not some sort of sci-fi dystopia, but it's also not utopia. Exactly. You if you go to China, talk to the normal Chinese people, you'll find plenty of Chinese people bitching about the government, just like you would in South Africa or United States. That's because that's what people around the world do. They will bitch about their government and, and, but, but you know, after that, you know. They're not going to get
arrested. You know, people think, oh, you know, they're going to get thrown into gulags. Or or like this is going to be in labor. Those are the squares on the on the cameras that follow you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Apparently that's everywhere in China. The Skynet, the Skynet, right? The yes. And and so I OK, so one thing, there are a lot of cameras in China that that's for sure.
I mean, this I when I traveled to China, I was surprised because coming from the USI was actually surprised by the prevalence of cameras. And I did ask about it like my cousin who you know, who lived there And for her, her biggest complaint about the camera is like, like he, she gets a lot more, she gets a lot more traffic tickets now because the cameras will catch her speeding. And that's her, her biggest
complaint. But I guess like in, in China, they have a different relationship with technology as people do in the West, because, you know, a lot of people think certain camera surveillance, they think Black Mirror, they think like dystopia. And, and, and I think rightly so, because our government do a lot of shit. No U.S. government, I know for sure, I don't know about South South Africa, but I know U.S. government do a lot of shit with surveillance. You know that, that that
happened. We, we only start to know about it because Snowden, because the Snowden leaks. And now, now they're completely open about it when they say, oh, we're going to hand over all your data, government data to Palantir. It's private companies. So they're going to, and Palantir is the same company that work with the US Pentagon, right? They they also do things like how to provide targeting.
Information on the battlefield, they're the same one who is going to isolate who is going to like identify dangerous element in in the society, right. Like that, that's more scary to me personally, just because I hold US passport, whereas go ahead, yeah. In South Africa we do. In South Africa we do have a few cameras, but they're all stolen. And the ones that are still standing on the side of the street, they've got bullet holes in them, so we're all good.
But, but I'll tell you one. Thing in China it's very safe. I mean you can walk in the street at at night in big cities. Women can walk out late at night in big cities, little children play outside after dark. It's just a compared to most cities in Europe. America, I'm not even going to compare to South Africa. I know it's bad over there. So compared to most other places in the world, China is very safe. Listen, I often joke with people. They say to me, yeah, but China's a communist.
Hello. Listen, whatever China's doing, please bring it to South Africa because that'll certainly enhance whatever, it'll enhance our country. So listen, if it's communism, please bring it. And I mean, but that call, that's one of the things that I realized over the last few years is that you can't apply one word as a descriptor for an entire country or entire nation. The idea of communism or capitalism or any ISM is largely empty because these things are so nuanced.
And you can't, you can't just say, well, this works in America, so therefore it will work in China. You you're dealing with different cultures and different different histories. And when you talk about isms, you know, different people have different ideas. You know, like in in America, people think like Joe Biden is a. Communist, right? There are people who think Joe Biden or or AOC's are communist. So so you know, it's kind of hard sometimes it's hard to hard. You know, it's hard.
You don't even know where to argue. So, but just I, that's why just go, go, go to China, see for itself how people live. I mean, I think it's undeniable people are living much better life in China now than say 40 years ago when I was born. I mean, I can, I can tell you all about the time I I had to go get ration papers to buy anything and, and, and, but, but it's, it's, it's just a fact that that people are living better.
You know, people say, oh, what? It's because because they're, they're exploiting slave laborers. This is the Chinese miracle is built on exploitation. But look, it's the fact that everybody in China is doing well and doing better. Like when, when 90% of Chinese own homes, I, I saw a statistic reported from 2017, 70% of Chinese millennials own their own homes, 70%. And, and that was like what, five years ago? No, no, no more than five years ago, 2017.
Now it's, it's eight years ago. No, I, I did my math incorrect. Yeah, it's eight years ago. It's eight years ago. And, and that that means today that that number is probably even higher because not like now even the, the young, young, young, young, youngest millennials are already in the in their 30s, right late 20s and so. It's. That's not the. Case. I know that's not the case in in the West. You know a lot of people. Yeah, that's also, that's also another mental barrier.
So I'll keep interrupting you, but I hope you don't mind. But that's also another mental block that that I find so many people have they go, well, how does a communist country have such a preference for private property? But it it is like that. You know, you know, I will tell you something. I was I was shocked when I find about eminent domain laws in United States. You know when in the in the two early 2000 I was talking with when I first started working in USI was talking by his
colleagues. I was like what I thought this is a land of free. How can you just claim? How can the government just claim because they need it? They can take away your property there. Well that's eminent domains. Well, in China, you they have what, those so-called nail houses? So you sometimes you have like a highway and some how you have to split off because there's a big house in the middle because, because the owner refused to move because it maybe they were
waiting for higher compensation. And, and when the negotiate failed, the developer to just decide, OK, screw it, we're just going to build around you. And it's very common. There's they even have a developer turn for you in China, they call nail houses These, these, these people that refused to move. So, so, so you can have like like a farmhouse that's in the middle of the huge.
Mall parking lot because the the farmers didn't want to move so so now now he got a huge parking lot in his front yard and and also another thing people don't realize, you know, especially people in the West Chinese. People don't pay property tax once they bought the house, They, they're, they don't have to pay annual property tax to the government, you know, so, so, so they, they, they own that house till they die, you know, but but people say, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, you don't really own
the house. You, because you are, you know, you only have the rights for 75 years. Well, technically it's true, but what actually happened is when you sell that house to somebody else, it's 75 years again, that, that, that, that the clock it gets, it gets reset. And, and also you, you can pass it to your children. And in the, in the most cases, it just, you know, like that's not even a thing that they're not going to.
Because actually we don't know because we haven't run against the clock yet to 75 years to see actually people getting their property taken away. But so far what we have seen is if. You own a house and you just try to sell it. The owner. The new owner. Get their 75 years right. I mean, so, so technically you can sell your children for a buck. They, they have it for another 75 years. So that's another issue. And you know, they don't pay property tax.
So even if they lose their job, you know, they're not going to lose their home. They they, they're not. Going to get yeah, that's that's. Important. But I think something that that I'm learning more and more and more call is that you have to choose your battles. So if you want to be a political cartoonist like I am and you want to make a career out of criticizing the government, then living in China might not be the
best option. OK, If I'm an activist and I and I want to do a street protest every month, China might not be where I want to be for that. For example, during COVID, living in South Africa was pretty great because our government is highly inept and very useless and they weren't able to effectively lock us down and and mandate things. Now, I know in China they were a lot more efficient at that, and in Canada and in other countries. Are you telling me? Are you telling me South Africa
is a libertarian paradise? Is that what you're telling? Me maybe even, maybe even more an anarchist paradise because there is a look. Like I said, it depends on it depends on what you want. If you want a sense of freedom, then you kind of require a more chaotic society, like like many African countries, right? But it comes at a cost. You have very broken infrastructure. Trains are unsafe, public transport actually is unsafe. My wife can't really walk around on her own at night.
So it depends on what it is that you're wanting ultimately. That's true. That's true. There's always a trade off, right? I mean pros and cons and I think the fact that speaks for itself.
There's like hundreds of millions of Chinese who have traveled abroad, but most of them return, you know, many of them travel abroad for, for travelling, for studying, but many of them do return to China. So, so that, that, that means they, they, they apparently find it acceptable or, or, or or better to, to stay in China. Another thing is like people say, OK, but, but China is still very poor, you know, in terms of nominal dollar terms compared to US.
You know there's still compared to low income to the income level to United States. Well, that is true in nominal dollar term, but the the money goes. But South Africa? South Africa. But but but money goes a long way in China. There is a power purchase parity. You know, like you, you can get This is why people develop the the Big Mac index, right? Could see how much big index Big Mac cost in each country and how much they make.
But in in China, the fact is people are on average Chinese holds, they save like 34% of their income. So Chinese household saving, it's like some it's insane. It's something like $22 trillion. It's it's huge compared to like household savings, say United States, because these people somehow are able to save quite a lot. This is why China is a creditor nation. It's it's loaning money everywhere as opposed to a debtor nation like United States, which is $37 trillion in debt.
So, so you can say, yeah, China is poor, but somehow these people are able to save and they're able to own homes and they're able to afford to travel abroad, send their children to study abroad. I think they do OK. You didn't quite finish your thought earlier about the social credit system, though, in China. It's not a thing. There's not much to talk about because it's not a thing because, because, because the assumption is right.
If the, if the camera caught you, you know, maybe spitting on the street or something and then you're going to be blacklisted from bank loans or something. No that it doesn't work that way. It, there's no national data system in China for that kind of to, to, to, to, you know, to, to build a social criticism, you're going to need a national database, right? To, to, to monitor everyone and to, to log that in. There's no national database in
China for that kind of thing. But there are areas times like for example, there was a recent viral event of a women who who took somebody's seat on the train. Like she doesn't have because in China on the train there's different classes. You can buy either seat seating tickets, you can buy sleep sleeping tickets where you get beds, or you can buy standing only tickets. So this woman apparently she has standing only tickets, but she decided to sit in someone else's seat.
And when that someone who came to claim the seat, she refused to give it up. And even when the conductor tried to intercede, she refused to give up the seat. So in that case, she might be get blacklisted by the train company. I mean, but it's not like there will be a national database. She will be like blocked on bank loans or anything else. She will just be blacklisted by the train company. But but that's that's understandable that that happens anywhere.
I was we were talking about the cameras and I was reminded of that. I think it was ABBC article from a few months ago where they're talking about China sending a rocket into space, but the picture was a surveillance camera on a surveillance camera on the street. Did you see that? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just ridiculous. It's just ridiculous. Is there somehow implying there's a Chinese surveillance
camera on the moon or something? I mean, first of all, but I mean, nobody's even on the moon right now. OK, let's let me remind people nobody is on the moon at this. Point and and even I don't think I don't think there's there there was American NASA program Artemis that was going to go quote UN quote go back to the moon.
But I don't think that's going to that's even going to happen with the way NASA is. But but you know what actually, so in couple years, the only space station is going to be Chinese when the Internet, because the International Space Station is due to retire in couple years. Well, it's supposed to due to retire. We don't know if they're actually able to retire it. But if that happens, the only space station right you're going to be staying up there is going to be Chinese.
And it will be whoever the Chinese decide to invite over. And Americans don't, don't get to go because not because Chinese won't invite them over, but because there's a law in, in U.S. government. the US Congress passed a law, the Wolf Wolf Act or something, that prohibits NASA from cooperating with with China on space. So This is why China had to create their own space station in the 1st place because they refused China to join the ISS International Space Station.
And yeah, yeah, so, well, they do. They do. Have cameras. They do have cameras on space station. They do have cameras. China is coming up in the world as a very powerful economy, and the American empire doesn't like this. Well, I, I think that that's, I mean, Marco Rubio of all people acknowledged wearing a multi polar world now and then. You have, you have, Joseph.
Borrell, you know, the, the garden guy, the, the, the, the garden and the jungle guy basically declaring, yes, the, the, the, the what age of Western dominance is over. And I think we, we're gonna, we're, we're kind of at the last stage of the dollar hegemony right now. This is why. But do you think? Sorry, do you, but do you think Trump is going to welcome multi polarity or do you think he's trying to slow it down? No, no, I mean like Trump. Trump just labeled BRICS as an
anti American alliance, right? I mean the only thing that. Led to that outburst is because of Brazilian President Lula during the BRICS summit said OK, we we need to have another alter alternatively trading currency. He didn't even explicitly mention U.S. dollar. He just says we need a new trading currency, otherwise we're going to end the 20th 1st century like the way we started the 20th century.
That's actually pretty stark warning because, you know, we started 20th century with two World War wars. And and because of that remark, Trump wanted to slap 50% tariff on Brazil and 10% tariff on all BRICS countries because he said, oh, that's a anti American alliance. They want to he he what he said, he said they wanted to de standardize the US dollar, right. And but he's already slapping everybody with tariff. Like what? What more can he do?
And the more he slapped tariff people, more people going to move away from the dollar. Go ahead. Yeah, but the counter argument is that he's playing 5D chess is that by slapping on tariffs, he's he's ultimately strengthening China and other countries. Oh, he is. He's definitely, but I don't think that was intended. I don't think that was intended. But you know, I, like I said, Trump is my president for
accelerationism. He's a he's a president for accelerationism, for US empire, imperial decline. Make China great again. Make China great again, I mean. He is. He's a peacemaker germs. I mean, he's actually making upbringing all the countries coming together now, now, now he just slapped after he slapped but tariff on India. Now the Indian Prime Minister Modi is going to go to China. Putin is going to go to China. So, so, so Trump is a great peacemaker of Eurasia.
You know he give that guy a Nobel. Peace Prize already you know he deserves it. The American Israeli connection is very fascinating. That is certainly the opposite of peacemaking, and China seems to have a very neutral position. Or does it? Well, yeah, I mean, so China used to have closer ties with Israel because Israel in the 80s and 90s function as the sort of back door, a back channel for China to access Western defense
technology because. There's there's no. Wall between US and Israel, right? So whatever is US goodies, Israel is going to get it. And then because China couldn't get it directly from US, so they go through the back channel, which is Israel. This is how a lot of the Western tech, especially American military technology flow to China is through Israel.
Because Israel, they, they will sell to anybody who, who offer money and, and, but that chat, that door has closed in 2000 to 20 tens because Americans actually told Israelis, OK, you got to stop that. You got to, you got to stop selling military technology to China. And so that's one rare instance where US actually told Israel what to do. So so is United States, they do have option to reign in Israel if they really want it, right.
It's just they chose not to. And and and and and and in other aspect, Israel and US function as almost like the same animal. And for so for for Chinas perspective, now China have to balance out its relationship with other neighboring countries in the Middle East, like like Saudi Arabia, Iran, you know, China is friendly with both Saudi and Iran.
That's how China was able to broker the Saudi Iran peace deal for so so China's relationship with Israel actually, I think take a hit after October 7th because you know, that's just it's just not not cool to be seen to stand with Israel anymore unless you are in Washington. You are you're in the US Congress, but your, your your political career depending on it.
And so, yeah, I mean, I think what US is doing, you know, including its relationship with Israel, what US is doing is lighting fires around all over the world. So that makes United States seems this land of calm, like those Oasis of calm among the world, light on fire. So all the money, all the US dollars that's been storing elsewhere, like parking Gulf countries, for example, that have no choice but to flow back to United States in foreign stock market bonds or real estate market.
This is why Trump travelled to the Gulf country recently, right? And like, because he want their money. I mean, it's, it's obvious he want them to invest in United States. And, and the way to do that is to, to start a war in, in the region to convince them, OK, your, your money is not safe. Better put in the US bonds, U.S. stock market. You'll, you'll get better returns and you'll be safe.
I think that's what's going on. I was just in the UAE two weeks ago and the amount of Chinese cars that I saw there is phenomenal and and not it's not this cheap junk that might have been the case 20 years ago. We're talking high end vehicles and those are now arriving in South Africa car. I can tell you I've already been test driving a few Chinese cars. I think my next car is going to be Chinese.
I've I've got no more time for, for European cars that are now just focusing on, on, on electric all the time. I'm we don't, we've got riding blackouts. How are we going to charge our cars? So, so, so at least the Chinese vehicles are still bringing out diesel, you know, and hybrids, which are also great. Yeah. And great quality.
That's the point. Yeah, I mean that that's a lot of the Americans don't even realize that because Biden put 100% on on, on Chinese EVs and, and, and so there's no, no, no, no, no Chinese car that's sold in United States right now. Like I, I, I bought a Chinese car in Indonesia just recently. I highly recommend it. They're, they're, you know, when Elon Musk used to laugh at BYD like more than 10 years ago and back then he was back then, he was totally that.
That was totally legit. Like he had the right to laugh at BYD more than 10 years ago because BYD was making shitty cars back then. I remembered it was a dating show in China and like the the the the. All the women and they were brutal. They were making fun of the guys that driving BYD. It's like, no, no, I'm not going to never going to date a guy driving a VYDI was so embarrassing, right so.
So, so, so Elon Musk was correct to laugh at BYD 10 years ago, but things have changed so drastically in 10 years now BYD is probably going to be the world's biggest automaker in, in, in, in in 10 years time. I think so, yeah. I'll tell you what the yeah, I mean, here in South Africa BYD have got exceptionally good 'cause I'm just not interested in in electric vehicles. But but I really do like GWM and have all yeah, those calls are outstanding.
They sell a lot in Russia. They sell sell a lot in Russia because because they're more rugged. Yeah, yeah, and and and I'm a good fan of. GWM. Yeah, and and. Because the Western company, they voluntarily gave up all that market, they pull out of Russia. So. So it's all Chinese car new. All the new car in Russia is in Chinese now.
That's. That's, that's the other thing about Russia. I was when I was over in the UAEI was hanging out with the with the Russian guy and he was saying when, when they sanctioned, when America sanctioned Russia, he says. It didn't affect us because we just took over all those businesses with Russians and now we have better quality. Yep, Yep, that's exactly what happened. I mean, I, I went to, I went to Moscow, their stores are full. Their, their, their shop, their
shops are full. And it's not, you would not know that's a, that's a country at war. And, and, and, and people, This is why like Chris, not Chris Tucker, Tucker Carlson went to Moscow a couple months after I, I went to Moscow and he was amazed. It's because Americans don't travel, man. They, they, they don't know any better. And they, they really think, you know, people like John McCain and, and Lindsey Graham, they say, oh, Moscow, Russia is just
a giant gas station with news. I'm like, if that's a giant gas station, that's, that must be the most beautiful gas station I've ever visited because it's Moscow in summer is beautiful, man. Yeah. You know, again, it comes down to propaganda and it sounds like we have anti American sentiment and we don't that's that's not the case. I I don't dislike Americans. When we talk about America, we generally refer to the deep
state or the US government. The whole the whole framework, the structure that I. I can, I can attest to that. Germs is not just, you know, trying to cover his ass. He's a great lover of American pop culture and American Music in particular. You know, because you, you, you are like a connoisseur of, of, of American pop culture and so. Yeah, British, yes. And I mean, my ancestry comes from, you know, the UK and Europe.
I'm not anti any of that stuff. Americans seem to think that the whole world cares about them and loves them. And and and by the way, the in the Gulf, they're quite advanced like, you know, like I wouldn't I? Dubai is insane. Dubai. I mean, like, I love the, because I remember I, I was, I did a transit through Dubai to go to Russia and you know, because my, my Internet in Indonesia is shit and I was trying to upload this file for like many times.
I keep on failing and I go to Dubai airport using Wi-Fi Zoom. You know, they, they, they have, they have real 5G. It's like so fast. So I was, I was very impressed. I I fell in love and, and you know, to speaking propaganda, you know, even I wasn't immune before I went to Russia. You know, even though I, I am aware of the propaganda being waged against Russia, I thought I'm, you know, pretty cognizant
of propaganda. But when I went to Moscow, still, it surprised me to see how vibrant the place was in the in the summertime. And I then I realized. This is because all the image I see of Moscow is always gloomy images like in the winter, it's dark. There's like, there's never like a sunny day in Moscow in the, in
the mainstream media, right? And, and so we'll actually go there And then when the birds are chip chirping, it's sunny, people are are walking around in in beautiful summer dresses. It's just. AI was not expecting that. I I always surprised. So, so, so propaganda effects everyone. And I think it does take effort to kind of deprogram yourself, right? But that's why people listen. That's why people listen to our show, right? That's the way people listen to
you. Germs, Yeah. What's the moral of the story called? I don't know, I think the moral of the story, just keep an open mind. Travel, travel, go, go see for yourself. Like don't believe, you know, you know, take everything with a pinch of salt and and have a little skepticism and and then I think you do that very well. You do that very well and keep an open mind. Always be skeptic and verify yourself trust. But always verify. But also remember, Chinese
propaganda is also real. You don't want to elevate China to this, to this country that now does no harm. The Chinese government also has a deep. Statement germs Chinese propaganda is shit man. The Chinese. For Chinese state media, I mean, like, I don't, I don't know anybody who could be falling for Chinese propaganda or should be scared of Chinese propaganda. I mean, they're, they're like if you look at. The official Chinese state media like People's Daily, right?
What they what they tweet out X it's easier. Pandas or like high speed trains or execution of crop. Music. Or or with horrible music and with and, and execution of crop officials. That's it. That's like, I can tell it's almost like they, they, they rotate these three stories, right? Pandas, trains and and the execution of crop officials. How can how can I follow you? I'm a prolific ship poster on X. Just my name. Carl Zah again. It's a lot of ship.
Posts so don't take me seriously unless it's true, then do take it seriously. And I do have a YouTube channel, Carl Zah. Again same, just my name Carl Zah. And I have a Patreon site where I post more stuff on Chinese history. I'm doing a chronological retelling of Chinese history from like the very beginning. Now I'm up to like 3. There's 316 BC, so equivalent in the western history is like the period after Alexander the Great just died so.
You know, I, I. Still have like 2504 hundred years 300 years to go taking my. Time. It's not. It's not that much work. I'm going to. Live a long time, germs. I'm going to live a long time, yeah. All right, calls are. Thank you for joining me in the trenches. Thank you.