Oh my gosh, it's happening. This is really happening now. It's like I'm compelled to do this. I, I don't even know what's come over me. How can you look at hope and think we're far right? I just don't, you know, you look at all of our social media, you look at the website, you look at our ethos, our, our values. It's it's just. A ruse. Katie, Joe. Whereas I never ever was afraid. Ever. KJ. Yes. Welcome to my garden, The secret. Garden. Beautiful. I've never been here before.
Yeah. No, you haven't, have you? No. But it did to this area. I've never been and. You had a bit of synchronicity on the way as well. I did it's it's. Just why you were late. It's there's a few reasons. Because I got. Lost. I always get lost. It's fine. I'm used to it. I just go everything. I, I, I arrive when I'm meant to arrive. And actually, if I hadn't got lost and, you know, taking the journey I took, I would never have bumped into Katie Ann.
And that's just the universe telling me that I'm I'm, I'm on the right path. Yeah, are you? Do you believe in fight? I believe that we have to just surrender sometimes to yeah, to the universe basically just guiding you and supporting you and synchronicities will happen along the way. Yeah. And they and as you, as they happen, it kind of it's, it's, it's more sort of confirmation that you're on the right path.
So let's well, I was going to say, have you found that with hope, with hope, the whole hope project? Have you found that synchronicities have of help, help too long on that path? But before, before you answer that, really for those who we should talk a little bit about hope, because I guess that's it's what you're known yes, for and it's and it is a big passion of yours. So tell everyone a little bit about hope. It's A and then we'll get back into the synchronicity.
I suppose it, it is my life to a certain extent because it, it means so much to me and to my family. You know, it's, we're, we're all involved in hope, but especially Tommy, you know, if I didn't have hope, I don't know what Tommy's life would be like, right? It would be very, very different. So for those who don't know that much about Hope, there might be one or two people out there who don't, so give a little. I know, I'm just presuming everybody.
Knows about it well, because it's so much a part of our lives, isn't it? And yeah. It is weird, isn't it? When you have something like that that's, you know, it's, it's just like the norm and then people don't know about it and you're like, what? Yeah, so there'll, there'll definitely be people watching who either won't know what hope is or won't know much about hope. So give people a little overview of of how it started, what? It is, yeah.
So I suppose we need to go right back to 2000 and 19 really, and the announcement of the lockdowns. And you know, previously to that, you know, the, the, the even the talk of a lockdown happening was just something that sent me, my mum, my sister, my auntie, all of us that were aware of the agenda, shall we say, just spiralling into, Oh my
gosh, it's happening. This is really happening now in our lifetime, in our lifetime, which is just was just a really weird thing because I'd heard David Icke speaking about it for years and years and years. And obviously had been down many rabbit holes myself already down, you know, the big pharma rabbit hole, vaccination rabbit hole, 911 rabbit hole, the chemotherapy, chemotherapy rabbit hole, just so many things that I've been researching and knew about already.
So we just all immediately said, right, OK, we've got to do something. It was just like I had to, you know, I felt like I had to be proactive. I couldn't just sit back and just watch things happening. So my mum and myself and a couple of friends decided that we would start a cooperative. Before that, actually, I'd started a Facebook page with a friend called Hastings. Stop and think where we were just, you know, encouraging people to question things and, you know, a nice.
A nice name actually. Hastings, stop stopping the thing. Because it's, it's quite gentle, isn't it? It's quite feminine. Like the, you know, if that was a bloke setting up a Facebook page, it'd be like, you know, Armageddon approaches call to arms. Also not the you know, the shits hit the fan. Yeah, the shits hit the fan. Yeah. So that's that's nice.
But we had, we had a really nasty character join the page and start, you know, antagonising people and it just all got horrible as social media does. So I decided to put, just put messages out and said if you're really serious about, you know, making a change and doing something then and building community, then meet me on the
beach. So I started meeting people illegally on the beach and in at the back of downstairs of a cafe in the centre of Hastings. That's where I met amazing people like Chris Coverdale, who, Oh yeah, I absolutely adore and. Yeah, I've not met him, but he always comes across. You should definitely paint Chris. You know what? I hadn't even thought of Chris, but that would be brilliant. Yeah. He's lovely. Yeah. So, yeah, so that, and then the meetings just grew and grew and grew.
And throughout that time, it was very exciting, shall I say, to, to, to meet whilst, you know, having to hide your cars and, you know, pull the blinds down. And it was just, it was just such a crazy time. It was really, really bonkers, you know, with that. And then, you know, all of the protests and the marches. But getting, getting back to hope, we, I met Matt and Sadie and they're four gorgeous children on the beach. And our friendship just grew
from there. We started to educate the children together, you know, go for lovely walks in the woods. We had a friend's apple farm, Martin's Apple farm that we used to go to and and do forest school with the children there. We had the police called on us and we had to play hide and seek with the children. Mad times for being outside so. Some children really suffered with that, but some really thrived, didn't they? Yes. You know, I think some children really, really relished that
excitement. But I know that a lot of children didn't. They didn't like it. I think it, I think it depends on what sort of environment they're in. So if, if, if your parents are panicking and being very, you know, afraid and fearful, then they're going to pick up on that. Whereas I never ever was afraid ever. And I know that sounds really, I don't know, I'm not trying to sound big headed or anything, but I just, I never had a fear
at that at that time. I never, I never do have any fear of, of, of, of them and what, what they want to try and, you know, force us into. It's just not something that's ever crossed my mind. So, yeah. So we, so we started educating at Sadie's house, you know, other parents houses, smuggling the children in and it was fairly exciting really. Then the Co-op fell apart.
Really. It's it's, it's one of those things that with a cooperative, everybody gets a say and, and I know that sounds like true democracy and I suppose. It is. It's democracy. But that's a big question, isn't it? That's a big question. You know, if you have a room full of 100 people and you're talking about one topic, let's say, should we allow vaccinated people into the Co-op or should we not allow vaccinated people into the Co-op, for example?
Every single person has to have their say and naturally, you know, even though the point has been made by someone else, everyone will want their, you know, their their moment to speak. And, and so meetings would go on and on for hours and hours and hours with the same people going away and doing the doing all the work. Yeah, you know, it's it's. And a lot of hot air. And a lot of hot air and a lot of going round and round in circles and never really achieving anything.
So for me, when, when the Co-op was, was shut down, I, I, I, I didn't want to go back to that model. I knew it wasn't really going to help. So we went for the CIC model instead, which is a community interest company. Oh, OK. So we can we, you know, myself and Sadie, we are the directors, but we have a core team, as you know, that really are at the centre of making decisions. And we always ask if they're big decisions. We always ask for, you know,
people's opinions. But ultimately the buck lies with me and Sadie and it has to be like that for for us to get anything done, for us to achieve anything, you know? I think that's the case with, well, with a lot of freedom people. They have this sort of utopian idea that if we're all aligned, we can all come together and
create these communities. But actually, I think like any good business, it's usually one or two people's idea and they have the vision and then they find people who want to support that vision and then it just becomes a solid thing. Whereas if you have just like you're saying, if you have so many different voices all saying, well, it should be like this. It should be like nothing ever gets done. No business ever succeeded like
that. And I'm not saying business is the be all and end all, but it's the it's the mark of, you know, if you're profit driven and you know, you want to succeed at something, that's the model that you it's usually one at the most two really. Isn't it like a partnership? Yes, yes, I mean. Matt, Matt's definitely there as well. You know, I, I he's like a. But then he's in a relationship with Sadie, so there's a whole.
So they're they're they come as a pair really, you know, but it's a it's a, it's a, it's a really weird thing. You mentioned profit there, but both, both of us are really bad at business. We're terrible at business and it's not obviously what has driven us to create hope. And I think that has its advantages and disadvantages. Its advantages is that it's it's coming totally from heart. There's no, there's never been off. We do this, we can make loads of money.
It's that's just never, ever ended our minds. We can vouch for that and I know how the how it works. But it's but, yeah, but I'm sure we've made plenty of silly mistakes along the way as well. You know, we're learning as we go along. Nobody's given. Nobody's given us a handbook and gone. This is how you build community, especially in these times when community is pretty alien to people. You know, we're not, we're not used to that. We're not even used to really existing in big families
anymore. So it's, it's a whole new way of learning to live and cooperate with people and yeah, be, be understanding and compassionate. And especially at these trying, in these trying times. Everyone's going through it big time. There's everyone's struggling at the moment. I think it's tough.
So, but it was, it was a, it was a when I never forget my husband when I was when I was meeting people on the beach, he said, said to you, it's like, it's like you think, Jesus, it's like, no, no, it's not that at all. I can't I it's like I'm compelled to do this. I, I don't even know what's come over me. I'm literally just half to do it. And it was such a stressful time. Actually in our house. It was a really stressful time because that's all I could put my energy into was, was, was,
yeah, it was. That was building community, making a change, doing something. Yeah. So is that something that you took my focus? Lastly, you still, because I know you're very driven and for example, when we asked if you'd like to join the band, you know, it's a big consideration because you do so much, you know, you had to consider did you have the time to do it? Well, luckily, luckily for us that you thought you had. But is that an ongoing concern juggling? I know you've got a very
supportive family. I've got a star. My family's amazing, absolutely amazing. I, you know, I couldn't do they deserve all the credit really, because there's just no way I could achieve anything I've achieved without them. So they do deserve all of the credit. But I, oh, I, I, it was straight away I was like, yes, I want to be in Victorious. Absolutely love Victorious. And it's been so lovely already that we've, you know, I've sung, you know, guest songs with you.
So it felt like, you know, something that would be a natural progression. Yeah. So yeah, going back to Hope, how did the vision form of actually a place for home education because we haven't actually said that to people. So what let, let, OK, what is hope in its current form? What is it? Hope is Sussex, Hope Sussex Community is literally that. So I would say the site operates as a community centre and we have our home educators, home educating families that come and
use the facility. They, they have, we have classes there with independent tutors, amazing independent tutors who are all really happy to be out of the education system. And so they, they're, they're taking classes and also just socialising the children. It's also, it's also about the adults being able to chat with like minded people and, and again, feel like you're putting into something, you're making a difference. You know, you're, you're, you're
leaving a legacy behind. Is, is how I feel. And we have the best people there. We do, we really do. And that's and you know, and, and there are obviously people that come that weekly. We have a health clinic PHA, which again is so important for people to be able to get low cost treatments. So really, really grateful to all of those practitioners that are part of the PHA that'd. Be where you'd get your latest shot, is it? Is that right? Yeah, yeah. Get your latest shot of glowed
or silver or what else is there. There's hydroxychloroquine, the natural stuff, I think so. Yeah. So there's there's the PHA. And again, I'd just love to expand every single branch really. Our allotment is another one. The food side of things is really important, but that's run by a real dedicated core group. And you know, they work their butts off. They really do. And it's looking amazing down
there. So we're, we're looking like we're going to have a really fruitful year harvest this year. So there's that and there's, there's the event side, which really, I mean, I absolutely adore the event side, but it is a constant juggle for myself and Sadie because the, the running of the homemade side and then the running of the events side are both really, really demanding. And we're constantly going, OK, we have to run the events to bring the money in. The homemade side is what's is
at the core really. It's the reason we started Hope Sussex. So for us, we, it, it is, it's, it's big, it's a lot, it's a lot of work, it's a lot of work, but it's, it's, there's, there's I can't, there's, I can't think of doing anything else. There's, there's no, there's no other option really, if you like. And the rewards are massive. The rewards are huge. When you see the children having a wonderful time at Hope, playing, being free, you know, that's, that's, that's just, you
know. Well, it it. It's makes my heart just swell. It's just the best thing. And that's what it's all about. And especially my Tommy, when I see him, I hope, you know, having having the best time and being accepted for who he is. So for Tommy, if, if, if we didn't have hope, his options would be mainstream. And I mean, Jake, Can you imagine Tommy in mainstream school? He's 13.
He's 14 this year. That means he would be, you know, nearly at the end of first year in secondary school that it would just kill him. I know it would. It would be he would be bullied, he would, he wouldn't cope with it. He just wouldn't be able to. So the other option is a special needs school. And he's he's not stupid. He's not, you know, I think that would. Just wouldn't be. Right, either that just wouldn't work for him either.
I think he just needs to be accepted for who he is in a loving environment and to be able to learn at his own pace, which he cannot hope. So it's, it's the biggest blessing for, for us as a family. Yeah, it's a very, it's a very natural way of of community,
isn't it? Hope it's it's very relaxing in some ways, although there are structured, you know, the tutors come in. But in a way, I mean, I can say for Mackie as well that it's all the stuff around it really, which is just so nourishing for everyone, adults and children, in a way that, you know, we've put off coming for a long time. Rachel was you must come to hope. And it's too far away, yes. It is far, I know.
But you know, the rewards have just been incredible and on so many different levels, it does feel that, you know, when you set something up, it just it just has its own momentum and people just come who are right. And I can imagine Netherfield becoming this hub of. The locals, yeah. I know, I know there's challenges with the locals. I've heard some things and you know, people get in the wrong end of the stick and and listening to the media too much
and you know. We've all experienced that, haven't we? I think we've got things. Unfortunately, those people probably won't be listening to this and and getting the the true picture. That's the problem, isn't it? People get stuck in their perceptions. I mean, you can't. I don't know how you can blame parents for wanting to protect their children from what's happening. At the end of the day, that's all we're doing as parents is going. I want to be the best parent I
can be, you know? And I know that something is deeply wrong with society and the way society is going, I know something's deeply wrong with the education system. I don't want my child to be subjected to any of that.
I want to protect them. That's surely a natural instinct for a parent so. But most people wouldn't wouldn't see, no, sorry, not most people, those who have been indoctrinated into the, you know, by the the press and you've had some hit pieces done about hope and all that kind of stuff. But the people who? Fall for that they they're not seeing it from that perspective, are they, though? They're seeing a bunch of far right. How can you look at hope and
think we're far right? I just don't, you know, you look at all of our social media, you look at the website, you look at our ethos, our values. It's just. A ruse. Katie Joe, It's just stories. I love your slogan. What's that so far? Right, right so far. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Brilliant. Yeah. T-shirts. T-shirts available on the website. Get yours now, right? So far, yeah. So it's, yeah, it's just another, it's just like being
called a conspiracy theorist. Like it's like being called a homophobic, transphobic person. I mean, I just, it's, it's just another, it's just another, you know, name. They're just trying to put us in that box really, aren't they? And the only badge I will wear is that is the anti Vaxxer. Badge. You know, I'm the same actually. I'm really not ashamed to speak out and say I'm an anti vaxxer. I'm not either, you know, I don't, I wouldn't necessarily describe myself as anti anything.
It's, you know, it just has connotations of negativity, but essentially. See, I, I, I don't feel that because I've researched vaccines so deeply with every child. I mean, obviously my, my background is that my mum's brother, three years old, developed a leukemia after the measles vaccine and died. Oh right, I didn't know that. Yeah, so it goes right back in my family, the questioning of vaccinations. And I used to.
I've always grown up seeing a homeopath and my homeopath when I fell pregnant with Molly, she said to me, you really need to research vaccines. She didn't say to me, don't, don't, don't vaccinate research vaccines. So she gave me loads of books and I'm sorry, but if you do your research, there's just no way you'd let them, you know,
vaccinate your child. So I, I, well, I did that with every single 1. I did that with Poppy and I did that with Tommy. I just went back to the to the same books, you know, and the informed parent is a fantastic website. I don't know if they do any talks anymore, but they went to a couple of their their their talks. Oh. Is that what's her name? Is that English? Is that an English organization? Yeah.
Yeah, I. Think she, I think there was the one who's promoted a lot in the Aneka groups who used. To probably. It's pretty clear cut, really. Yeah. When I say anti I, it's just the word anti. But yeah, no, absolutely 100% I, you know, vaccines are they're. Not safe, they're ineffective, they're not effective, you know, and and it's again, all about profit for big pharma and keeping us. I'll, you know, so I'm, I'll wear that badge with pride with Molly. She got whooping cough.
Oh, yeah. And it wasn't very nice. But she's so, you know, it's it, it did the world of good really in the end, because she never gets coughs. And, you know, it's like a, it's like an immunity. Yeah, there is a theory that with every infection, let's just call it an infection, the the body goes through a kind of a real growth spurt intellectually and it that that the challenge of the infection pushes a child to develop. And people like children have I. Agree with that.
And if you suppress the infection, then maybe they they don't get that chance to. I I would say that's, that's definitely true. I've I've witnessed that as well with, with my children after they've maybe had a fever. Yeah, they have like a growth spurt. OK. So that's the, I would say I've actually witnessed that, right. OK, so that is definitely true. But it was the doctor. Oh my gosh. Because I, I didn't, she didn't have any antibiotics or
anything. I used homeopathy to, to, to, you know, to help her and just let it run its course. But the, oh, the doctor, yeah. Oh, I bet you wish you'd had her vaccinated now. No, actually no. But they oh gosh, went obviously spent a lot of time in hospital and that's that's a challenge when you have a child like Tommy, who's who's born and straight into special care and has, you know, you're in that allopathic environment and then you're trying to treat them as holistically as possible.
And never forget the pharmacists going crazy at me because I'd gave him, I'd given him some Monica and he went, you're going to give him a heart attack. I was like, no, I don't think I will. I think he'll be absolutely fine. Thanks. I've. Been What was his reasoning with that? Oh, he just, he just didn't want me to use any, anything apart from pharmaceuticals.
He didn't really give a reason. He just said that it was dangerous, which is quite amusing, really, when you think of the side effects from yeah, from pharmaceuticals. It's just. But that's OK, That's all right. Because they've got they've got the side effects documented and they can say that these are, you know, so it's, it's all right If, if you get ill from pharmaceutical drugs. Yeah. It's, it's bonkers. It's such a bonkers world we live in.
It really is, isn't it? The invert, the inversion everywhere. It just, it drives you mad. Your head just starts going, you can't cope with this anymore. I mean, a clown world, as Trevor John says, that song is perfect. It is a clown world. How was that when Tommy was born then? Did you feeling then that you had to be drawn into this system that you was very wary of? I believe, yeah, I, I can see, I look back at my life now and I look at big challenges and I think they've prepared me for
what I'm doing now. They've been, they've been a preparation 100%. So that was obviously probably, I would say the biggest challenge of my whole life was, was trying to, I mean, if it wasn't for me and my mum, my husband, I don't think Tommy would be here. I really don't think he'd be here, you know, So I've when I felt pregnant with Tommy, he was a surprise. And when I found out, I instantly knew something wasn't right. It was really bizarre.
Yeah, I knew in my gut I was like, this isn't right. I don't feel the same way. And it wasn't that it was a surprise because I love children. I just keep having kids. I could just knock them out, have loads of kids, but it there was something. And. And so then and, and with the girls, I didn't have any scans, didn't have any scans at all with the girls, but with Tommy, something in my gut said I
needed to have one. And so that's when we found out he had pulmonary stenosis on his heart, on his heart. And, and then the second scan, they realised I had polyhydramnius, which is this medical condition where we know now he wasn't swallowing the amniotic fluid. So I was getting bigger. I literally looked like I was had about 10 babies and I was so tiny as well. I was like Mr. Greedy from the back. I didn't look pregnant for a turn around huge.
I was massive and I was really poorly towards the end. But yeah, no. And, and when he was born, he had to, he went straight to special care, couldn't feed, he wouldn't feed. So he had to have Ng tube, which is the nasal gastric tube. And then after 10 days they said, OK, we've got to transfer him to Brighton. And that was just kind of like the journey. We were Brighton to Evelina, to Great Ormond St. to so many
different hospitals. Found out that he had De George syndrome, which is actually the second most common syndrome after Downs. Say that again, What's it called? De George. De George. De George. De George Yeah. And I've never heard of it. No, I've not heard of it and some people don't know they've got it. It can be very, very mild, depends on the deletion. So Down's syndrome is a duplication and did George syndrome is a deletion on the chromosome 22. So.
So it was just a journey then of finding out. So he had to have his biggest operation at three months old was his fund duplication. Where what's this? What? It's it's called a thunderplication. So the top of his stomach, his he had low muscle tone all the way down his centre of his body. And so the top of his stomach hadn't formed properly. So it's wide open. Oh.
OK. So for a, for a while before the operation, he had to have a tube into his stomach that would take the contents out so that he didn't aspirate. And then he had a tube into his Jedinam which would feed him. So, and all this time I was trying to express because I wanted him to have breast milk. And I did that. I literally, probably for the first 3-4 months, I think I was every two hours, day and night, expressing wherever we were just trying to, yeah, try to feed him.
And then he had the, the surgery, which was a huge success. Fantastic surgeon at Brighton, but this whole time we're constantly suctioning him. So, you know, like a, a a suction machine that you get in the dentist, that's what you would constantly have to suction him and for they didn't. They didn't constantly. Do you mean like literally? Yeah, yeah, constantly otherwise. You could someone need to be. He couldn't swallow. With him like.
He yeah, all the time, Yeah. He had the worst case of dysphasia they've seen in the ebolina. So he was suctioned constantly, but but even Even so, it was. So I look back now and the speech and language therapist was still trying to get me get him to feed. And it's, I look back now and I, I cannot believe you didn't see that He couldn't swallow. So it's just really weird. So he has the fundification. He, he's, he's had, he had his,
one of his hernia operations. We get home and I've got this baby that I'm trying to feed all these different formulas. Actually before we even got him home, he had necrotizing entrecolitis. I don't know if you've heard of that. That's where some of the bowel dies. And that's because they wanted him to have this really, really high fat milk because he wasn't putting weight on. And I said I was really worried about him getting that. And they, they said no, no, no,
he'll be fine. I'll eat my hat if he gets that. She went and then two days on the milk and he's profusely bleeding. Yeah, it was. It was awful. So yeah, it was. It was just like there were plenty of times where I just wanted to run away. Yeah, I bet. But when I got him home, this was, this was I think was the biggest turning point for Tommy was when he he would, he would choke constantly. So therefore whatever we put into his stomach, he would vomit. So he's not putting any weight on.
So, yeah, and the, and the formulas were awful. I knew that, you know, but I couldn't, I couldn't express anymore. I had nothing left. So I made it my mission to make my own formula milk. Oh, OK. And I tried everything I, you know, hemp milk and cows it literally every kind of milk. And I would put, I studied the composition of, of formula milk and I added molasses and olive oil and ghee and just coconut oil and everything I could. But he was still being fed
through his nose. So there's a really tiny, tiny tube. So it had to be really thin still. He would still constantly vomit all the time. So I, I researched raw goats, OK. And that saved his life because I, I can't, you know, I, I don't see how we would have got any, you know, past that constant vomiting if it hadn't been for the raw goats, because it turns to curds and whey pretty much as soon as it hits the stomach. So it became a solid solid.
And that, that gradually helped him to start to gain weight. So, and they abut, Oh my gosh, I'll never forget going for an appointment with the dietitian and the surgeon who'd done his surgery and I told them this and how brilliant it was going. Oh my God, you'd have thought they were going to take him off of me phone social services. It was it. I suddenly just went right. Not never ever coming back here
again. Ever. So was that part of your awakening process seeing first hand some of the difficulties within, you know, or the, the. I within the system. I thank God that that didn't happen during COVID. I, you know, we, we were lucky enough that it was a time where we could all be in the room with Tommy, you know, and, and I could, I could sleep next to him every night. And if I, you know, it was hard.
We had two other children. So I would, you know, every now and again go home and see them And my husband would, we'd swap all, my mum would stay with Tommy and Tom's mum was amazing. And obviously the granddads as well have been so such a support in, in supporting us and the, and the girls.
But I just, Oh my gosh, if I, if I think about what that would have been like during COVID and the restrictions of having people in there and, and the testing and the mask wearing, I, I just, yeah, it was tough enough as it was. So my heart goes out to anybody who was in, in the, you know, in the hospitals in the system at that time. It must have been horrendous. They, you know, I can't, I can't knock most of the nurses and, and doctors, but it, but you had
to be there. You had to be there for handover. You had to be there because things would get missed. You know, there's, there were times where he was going to be given the wrong medicine and you'd be like, no, that's not the drugs he's on. He's on this or, you know, or I don't remember one, one night going to see him. This was when he was in the special care unit. So he was really, really young, probably two months old. And I'd just popped to see him.
It was about 11:00 at night. And there was a, a doctor doing an A scan on his heart. And I was like, this wasn't scheduled in. What are you doing? Oh, yeah, just just just checking. And I was thinking, you know, there's so much intervention for these for, for when you're in hospital, you know, and these little children, they, they have to have, you know, moments where they're they're left alone. And it turned out he was just a student just using Tommy, you know.
And so you, if you're not there, things will happen for sure. You've got to be there and on your guard, which is a shame. And I and I, I do believe hearing now that things have probably have deteriorated quite a lot in hospitals. All the children that hope benefit from that. It's a very loving atmosphere. And some, you know, someone like Tommy, like you said, if they're at mainstream school, they'd, you know, maybe be bullied or, you know, left out, ostracized.
Way guarantee he was. He was in when he, when he first went up to special care, when he was born. Three days later a little baby came in called Tilly and adorable little thing. Then we lost contact and Tommy did go to mainstream school for a bit and they ended up being in the same year together. And her story is different. She did go to mainstream school and it's not, it's not been good, not been good at all. And I know it would have been
the same for him. You know, he's, he's different, not wrong, different, just different. And you know, if you don't fit in and that's, that's the pressure that all children have, isn't it, at school to fit in? And that's what I saw with Molly, my eldest. So she went through primary school. I didn't even think about home educating, didn't even cross my
mind. Lovely village school guestling really lovely small and she was very happy went to secondary school and I just started to see that yeah, she was just quite becoming quieter and not herself very quiet, unhappy and I and I just thought OK, all the girls in school have got phones, you haven't got a phone. They're all doing TikTok, they're all doing selfies, they're all concerned about what
they look like. And although Molly is loves her makeup now and she's, you know, that's, she's found herself now. But then she, she just wanted to climb trees and she wanted to be in the fields, you know, rescuing sheep out of the canal and, and, and being a being a child still, she wasn't ready for that. And I just, my gut instinct was get her out. And I didn't, I didn't know anything about home Ed, didn't know anyone who home educated.
I just went with my gut. And that was, yeah, that was the right thing to do for sure. So with Poppy, it was, it was a natural thing. I just said, OK, you're not going to secondary school. That's not happening. I'm not going anywhere near it. And I was going to do the same for Tommy. But then lockdown happened. And as soon as it happened, I took him straight out. I just thought you are not being told you can't cuddle Pete. He's such a cuddly, cuddly. I mean, go up and cuddle
anybody, won't he? And well, tickle anybody. So, you know, the thought of him being told that he's, he's, you know, he's, he's, he's got germs and he can't do that and he's going to make people ill and all of that nonsense. And, and, and I think it's, it would have had such a detrimental effect on his mental health. The, the, the constant hand washing they were told to do. And I just know it would have. Affected him.
Negatively hundreds. Of thousands of children who are traumatised by that whole episode, don't even realise it. It's sort of a hidden, hidden disaster really in a way. I think probably kids, social development and confidence and OCD. It did self harming went through the roof, suicide went through the roof. The age of of suicide dropped, I think down to something like 10 or I mean, you know, it's pure evil what they're doing and what what what they did. It really, really is.
There's no other word for it. It's interesting, when we chatted with Andrew Bridgen a couple of weeks ago, there's one moment he just paused because he, he was talking about Leicestershire and his constituency and he was just talking about the suicide rate, you know, and Cathay really affected him. You know, I think these things, the people are still in denial about what what they, what they went through, you know? Collectively, what we went through. Yeah, I think we're still, we're
trying to process it, aren't we? It's it. But that's the weird thing, isn't it? About when you look back on life, it's just the weirdest thing because it's it's it feels like it was yesterday and yet it feels like it. It happened in another world, in a dream. Yeah. It's just bizarre, isn't it? This whole existence is bizarre. You know it is. What else can you say? It's it's it's, it's crazy, Yeah. Trying to work out what it's all about.
I sometimes think there's just no point even trying try. Just be in the moment, really. Yeah. And do you find that in a way with the whole the rabbit holes that you can go down and. I don't go down. Yeah, it almost feels like. I did it. I did it to death. That's right, yeah. There's a point where you just say I don't need to know
anymore. Really. Yeah. I mean, there's still obviously times where you'll hear something and it'll affect you deeply, you know, there's still times where I'll hear something and I'll, I'll really cry, you know, or I'll, I'll think about things and it'll, it'll really get to me. But generally, overall, I feel like I don't need to do that.
I feel like it's more important that I keep my vibration as high as possible and I put my time and energy into something positive and something that's meaningful. And yeah, that's going to be better. But that's not an avoidance thing. No. I mean, I know that's not an avoidance thing with you. I I, it can be with some people, yeah. You know, But I think there's that it's like a healthy trajectory where you, you you're open to what's going on. You explore what's going on.
You see, there's an agenda, You see that there's deception. And then and then you just you go, OK, I don't need to spend X amount of hours a day indulging in, you know, the details of this thing. I just. I just need to. I need to get. On my mind, where's the benefit for me?
Where's the benefit in that? You know, you're, you're going to end up bringing yourself down, you know, and I do I, I really truly believe that vibration is, is the key to everything, you know, and we, I think most people that are awake are on that page, You know, we're all vibration and we know that the lower vibrations feed the machine, the elite, the, you know, the dark side, it, it feeds them. So, you know, as much as we can, we need to be love and above.
That's not always easy, but you know, but it's, I think authenticity is, is important as well. Authenticity is the most important, but it and and also, you know, you, it's not saying we can't have those emotions, but it's not allowing them to govern us and allowing them to, you know, remain so. It's it's acknowledging them and and being able to move on, trying not to get drawn in to things as much. I like the observe not absorb thing. Observe, not absorb.
Yeah, Yeah, that makes sense. We had this chat with Sandy and she was almost questioning, saying, well, should I, you know, should I just leave it all behind and go off and do painting or something, you know, and, but I think we do need, it's a, it's a, it's a, we do need people to be Trail Blazers, you know, and if, if they have skills and they have the armour to face this and, and, and investigate it and, and be a spokesperson. Those kind of people I find
amazing. We've all needed them perhaps more towards the start of our journey. And so I said to Sunday, what people like you do is just something that a lot of people can't do because it's just too, you must be really grounded basically to be able to face that and talk about it and go into it. I just don't think I can't really they. Are incredible. You know, so it's not. But that's that's that's where we all have a part to play.
A different role as. Well, and that's and it's that should you know, that's community as well, isn't it? You know, we've all got a skill, we've all got something to bring to the table, and everyone's just as important as everybody else. Yeah. Transcending the ego. I know we need ego to a certain extent, but it's important not to allow it to, to, to rule over you and to really, yeah, we've got to keep a lid on it.
I think for us to be able to move forwards, You know, it's still, people are still falling out and it's 9 times out of 10 the ego really. Yeah, I agree that's getting in the way. I agree. It's not discussing things that's the problem. It's been attached to ideas that's the problem. So, you know, I talk about stuff and I annoy people because I have my opinions on certain things. But what could that? Yeah, I'm not going to say I've been told not to keep banging on about it.
But what I like is learning to discuss without being attached. So let's talk about this stuff that we might disagree on and let's do it with love in our hearts. You know, it's just, it's not a big deal. But can we learn to just not? Healthy debate. Healthy debate and just, and not even, you know, it doesn't even have to be a debate, just a discussion.
You know, like I said, I, I've stopped looking at stuff in detail really largely, but I'm more interested in how we progress psychologically as a, as a group of people who's looking for truth, you know, because ultimately I think the external is really just a reflection of the internal. So unless we're dealing with our crap. Oh, yes, we're just. But don't you feel like that's at the moment everybody's craps being bought out of them?
Yeah, it does feel energetically like you can't hide anything at the moment, you know, and people are, you know, on the edge at the moment because if you've got any trauma that you've not dealt with, it's coming to the surface, which I believe we've we've that's that's for a reason. So that we can move on and, and, and move up. It's baggage. Get rid of it, you know? Yeah, Make yourself lighter. You know, it was a massive learning curve for me was was trying to unlearn that time
isn't linear. Yeah, the sun could still be a portal, but we could still be on a globe. The gay pride movement, which was just about equality and just about allowing people to be who they want to be. Now we've got these horrendous marches which children should not be subjected to each other. And I was whizzing almost like through space, I suppose because it was pitch black. And there was like a bit like Star Warsy. But it I know it wasn't a dream because I felt it.