Hudson River Radio dot com.
This is Travis Walton and you are listening to UFO Headquarters. Beautiful Headquarters, and a big thank you to Travis Walton for that amazing intro. It never gets old no matter how many times I hear it. And we have Linda on here today, Mike Wardan and Linda Zimmerman with UFO Headquarters. But we have a very very special return guest tonight, Linda. And I'm excited because whenever he's on the show, it's a great program.
Oh yes, the mysterious, the one and only mister Burns.
Yes, yes, thank you for having me on again.
And Mike, I appreciate it, Yes, mister yeah, Well it's great because you're you know, you never cease to amaze me. I'll I'll ask him a question or mention something. And he has the encyclopedia of you know, the who wasn't where? Of everything. So my hat is off to you and your scholarship in this field.
Well, thank you. Hopefully one day I'll actually get to apply to something. Right now, it's just taking up space.
Now, yeah, but you've you've collected it. It's there, yep. And you do have the pine Bush archive.
Yes, yep, yes, that so.
Yep.
Back in the mid nineties, I got I traveled up to Pine Bush to see if there was any truth to the stories that I was hearing, and long story short, there was definitely a firm reason to stick around and to dig further. And I became a part of the community, you know, chasing after literally literally chasing in those days after the UFO phenomena. And it's been near and dear to my heart. It's been an ongoing pursuit, an ongoing mystery. I seem to change my overall opinion on things every
seven years, so I'm due, I think next year. But yeah, there's still an absolute ton of work to do. But what I've been doing is I've been I have been doing firsthand interviews with people when I can.
I I have.
If I look through my files, I have much more than I think I do. And uh, they're still out there. They're they're now scattered literally across the world. I found a guy in China, So yeah, a lot of people with a lot of stories, and you know, half of me thinks that I haven't even you know, cracked the majority of them. So uh, yeah, I just keep going and little away at it.
Wow, so a lot of these files are online, number of them really is the it's it's been interesting to to gain the the confidence of the people who are willing to share their stories.
It's it's uh so I have to kind of go witness by witnesses to to how they want to be, how they want their their story to be translated if they do, or relayed if they do. It's been challenging. So there's not a lot online right now. I I will have the task when I have time, hopefully when I finally retire, to go through everything and make something presentable, you know, to to to throw out to the world and see what they think.
Now, if someone has a pine Bush connected story, uh, can they get in touch with you?
The website absolutely, the The website is pine Bush Anomaly dot com. My email address is pb Mysteries at gmail dot com.
Okay, great, So if you are out there and you've been hesitant, you know, and you're afraid to give up your identity, don't worry. Nobody here is here too to rat you out. We just want your story.
Yeah, it's it's you know, it's a privilege to hear the stories and the whole point of taking the stories in is literally just to try to put two and two together. In the long run, it's an unbelievable story. It's it really has been a heck of an adventure that I feel like I stumbled into. I feel, you know, very fortunate. And and of course Pine Bush is kind
of like my my home away from home. Lots of lots of good, warm feelings towards that area, so I love traveling up there and learning more about it.
And and things are still happening.
Yeah, shockingly they are. I a I know we've talked about it a little bit this past calendar year, but I have reason to think that there was a burst. I shouldn't say it burst. There was a bump in activity in twenty twenty three, like there was definitely something more. It's something going on more than the past ten years, let's say, which is interesting. And and in the the usual spots too, which is is very interesting. So it's, uh, if.
You could just mention for people who aren't as familiar we know the usual spots, what would you call the usual spots in pine.
Bush, Oh, West Searsville and Montgomery Searsville close to it, and Indian Springs Road, New Prospect. You know, these places have a long history and they're still producing sightings.
So right along fifty two there by the cemetery.
Not so much by well there, yeah, not so much by the cemetery lately, yes, okay, but definitely in the past. And certainly I think if if some of the residents of you know what I dubbed the Fairy Knoll, that area between fifty two where beth bellel Is and West Searsville, I am sure there are stories within those residents from you know, six dicks decades back to present.
Yeah, and you know you mentioned Indian Springs. I get a headache every time I go on that road. I'm serious, That Indian Springs Road creeps the hell out of.
I don't.
I am not ashamed to say it.
Yeah, it's an interesting area, and I'll tell the story of how I was kind of introduced to that. And this is not specifically Indian Springs Road. It's a little I want to say, east of that, east northeast of that, but it's close by. But a friend of mine during the glory days of the group that met in the nineties, starting in ninety three that still exists in form thanks
to Bill wyand he took me up there. There was a family or there is a family that lives up there that had repeat activity and they and they said things were still going on. So he kind of took me to the general area it is and he's like, I want to show you something. So he he parks the car and just turns off the light and it was pitch black. I mean, you could not see definition of anything in front of you. And I was like, wow, like this is the perfect location for you know, odd
supernatural themed events to happen. But yeah, it's an interesting area, definitely, definitely.
Yeah, I've had some weird things happen. And uh and Mike, ourfre wonderfully psychic friend Barbara, I told her she doesn't live all that far from there, and I said, you need to check this out and she was like, oh my god, same thing. There's uh, there is something there is bad juju there. I don't know how you know, that's a highly technical term, I know, but yeah, so if people are looking for something unusual, but just be prepared. I don't know how people live there, and I'm not
even kidding. I couldn't. I couldn't live on that road.
Yeah, I have a question for mister Burns real quick. Yes, and not to put you on the spot, but you mentioned you you're collected all these you know, first hand accounts. He's great eye in this accounts. And you also mentioned that every seven years you're sort of own overall evaluation changes. What where where are you at now looking at the anomaly and what you think is going on?
Okay, So I'm now moving in the direction that UFO is a misnomer, that that there is something generating phenomena that that appears under a number of guyses for lack of a better term. So the phrase I say is like, I think the imagery is secondary. It's everything underneath the main presentation of this phenomena that really matters. That gives you a hint that it's you know, the same thing.
And I think the best presentation I've seen of that there's a wonderful researcher by the name of Joshua Kutchin I think is how you pronounced his last name. But he and a guy Timothy Renner from Pennsylvania who researches chestnut ridge, which is just like pine bush, only I think considerably bigger. They wrote a couple of books called Where the Footprint, Where the Footprints End, and it's bigfoot centered, but they really dive into how the bigfoot imagery is
almost secondary. I know very little about bigfoot lore, and now I'm kind of realizing, like, if I want to understand the big picture, I need to delve into that at some point. Yeah, it's super interesting. It was even interesting to me to hear that bigfoot groups have a category where, you know, they lump in reports that deal with phenomena where there's actually not a creature sided there's
no visual sighting of any type of creature. It's all the stuff underneath it, happening around it, little balls of light, smell flashes of light, feelings of dread. I mean that's straight out of heine Bush. It's straight out of Marley Woods, which is associated with UFOs. I don't think so much with Piedmont and Yakama, but the Metal Spot, which is
researched by Trey Hudson and Trey. It's funny hearing like Trey also talk about the same thing where he's thinking that there's one, for lack of a better word, intelligence kind of producing all this phenomena that has different imagery laid over it. So that's kind of where I'm going now, but I'll even take it a little further. I'm kind of going to the point where I don't even think
it's organic. So you know, when people talk about gin, they're still describing something that they that the traditional belief is that it's it was organically you know, these intelligence was were organically made for Again, for lack of a better word, I'm starting to head in the direction where I think this is artificial in some way, shape or form,
just because of the absurdity of the imagery. The imagery is very specific, it resonates with us, it's it's well thought out, for lack of a better term, So right there. You know, I guess now when we start talking about the whistle blow or the big problem with whistleblower stories for me is it's hard for me to imagine something solid enough to crash and be collected. So I'm drifting farther away from the traditional extraterrestrial hypothesis every year makes sense.
No, That's that's very interesting because that's sort of the direction I started going with after I visited the Mothman Museum down in West Virginia. Yeah, and picked up a bunch of John Kiell books and really started reading into his you know, very similar theory that the secondary the paranormal activity we perceive, whether it's a ghost foot UFOs are really just the manifestation that we're capable of seeing.
But there's a he called them ultra terrestrials. But I mean it's still I think I to me, it explains a lot.
Yeah, it's the biggest problem for me over the years, and it took me a while to actually kind of figure this out. What the problem is. It's always been a thorn Tomie Side is just how the imagery is just ridiculous, but it happens for all intentsive purposes. You know, the hundreds of reports that we we've learned of and we've spoken to people about, and we you know, everybody on this h on the show, We've we've spoken to people. It's it's there, it's an experience, it's part of the
human experience. But that doesn't nullify the fact that the imagery is really kind of ridiculous. So yeah, that's the
thing that that that's always bothered me. And it's interesting, you know, I hear that jockh Ohala is coming out with a new book, and I've noticed A has been peppering the word simulation in his most recent interviews, So I'm hoping he kind of expands on that because I kind of feel I don't want to, like wholeheartedly go into the simulation camp, but I'm kind of interested in hearing that viewpoint.
Now.
Yeah, I like, so you're you know where you're at. I really like because it for how long people have been experiencing things like bigfoot, pick the Lockness Monster just off the top of my head, you know, all these paranormal phenomenon but yet no evidence of it. I mean, realistically, if there really was a Bigfoot at some point, there has to be physical evidence we would come across something, and there isn't any. The Lockness Monster, no physical evidence whatsoever.
Science has kind of proven that, but yet people, reliably reliable witnesses report this stuff. They all can't be lying. So it kind of explains the lack of really hardcore solid evidence because there wouldn't be physical evidence.
Yeah, yeah, agreed. In fact, breaching over to the whistleblower that we'll be talking about, and just whistleblower claims in general. Oh, I didn't look up the name. There's a famous case and Valet wrote about it the most. I'm gonna mispronounce it, you know what, I'm not going to make a full of myself. I'm gonna look at on my Google.
But it don't we take our first break now and then you can look that up and we will come back to the whistleblower and the case we need to pronounce. Yes, all right, so we will be right back.
Excellent.
Hudson River Radio dot com Hudson River Radio dot Com, subsidiary of Glacier Entertainment LLC, blasting the competition New York's Hudson Valley.
So welcome back after our first break. And Linda mister Burns, this is already a conversation that I am in I'm in love with because you're you're speaking my language, like you know, it's my love language here. But you know, it's it's an interesting not all people agree with you or I or or or anybody in this field. There's there's a lot of different theories and we're all kind of guessing, I guess or making our our best conclusions on the evidence. But yes, I'm curious, I'm curious what
case you have here. I I'm not familiar with it.
It is a famous case, it's super well documented and VALA's written about it for years. And it's killing me because I'm not coming up with it.
Why don't I mention the the Jacob Barber information if you want to come up with the name or yeah, so while you're looking that up, let me just so. Recently it's been all all the rage, people pro and against and flipping out over Ross coltheart who I think does a fabulous job interviewing people, getting interviews other people can't whether you agree with what his guests have to
say or not. On News Nation had the latest whistleblower, Jacob Barber, who was with the US Air Force Mechanic helicopter pilot expert marksmen, was with Special Operations, worked for the DoD as a civilian as well, had NATO top secret clearance. Three separate soldiers who worked with them corroborated, so whatever you think of them, the men had as credentials. And he just came right out and said it said, you know, he wasn't eager to do this. It took
two years to convince him to come forward. He claimed he worked on a special crash retrieval squad on what he called the range where it was US government testing exotic aircraft. And he said, you know, we saw kinds of weird things. Something would crash, we'd have to pick it up and bring it back to where it had to go, you know, simple as that. But then there were some times there were things in other places that
we're a little off, were a little different. And he claimed, well, let me just say what he saw on this during his time. He said, things come in and out of sight, Things disappear for a moment and reappear. Things seemed to move very quickly. Things change color, they change shape. He talked about seeing things coming out of the ground, out of a ridge, and immediately I thought of pine bush because of things coming in and out of the ground.
And we'll get to some of what the other things he thought he saw that weren't human made, he believed. But mister, mister Burns, did you have a chance to find that case?
I have not. I'm failing miserably, And I said you were.
Mister Encyclopedia, Well can you tell us about the case.
And then yes, it basically was it was a sighting of I want to say, a disc shaped craft that wobbled and emitted a substance that fell to the ground, and it was a slag like substance. And the reason I'm bringing this up is because I think like that the point where physical evidence kind of morphs into UFO
mythology is how you describe that substance. I think in in kind of you know, especially in the past what seven years since the New York Times article, it's been a lot of stories and rumors about parts being held in warehouses and possibly by aerospace companies, and I wonder if that's really referring to slag, because this slag that's it's it's not the case that I'm thinking of which it starts with it. It's like Ubuntu or something to
that effect. It's it's not the only one. There's been a bunch of cases where slag has been emitted by the phenomena, and you could speculate that it's a by product of the phenomenon manifesting in our environment. Again just pure speculation, but it has been tested. And what Valet had been saying is that for years it was just the price was the price in the availability of the gear to do so was so prohibited that it was only within the past ten years that this material was able to be tested.
Like the meta materials they talk about.
Yeah, so perfect. Yeah, that's that's another word that gets used a lot, and I bet that it's referring to slag. And I guess what's interesting about it deals with the isotope or the isotopes rather Isotope is an audio company, so uh so. Yeah, It's the reason I'm bringing that up is because when you you know, I use the term ufo mythology for the the whistleblower stories, and you know, a lot of people would would be like, oh, you're
you're you're insinuating that they're not real. Not necessarily, you know, UFOs are a folklore, but they could also be a physical reality. It's not either or they have to exist, you know, in that in that littal space.
So yeah, in the last episode, we did talk about a case in Connecticut where they just said, oh, it's a blue book case. It was just slag, but it it was causing a weight change in material that was sitting next to it. Oh wow, Yes, and it had very unusual composition. But what causes a weight change in something you know, sitting on the counter next to it. So I think that was a very early case of meta material or whatever you'd you'd want to say yeah
about it. But so you did watch Jacob Barber on Ross coltheart.
I did. I saw the the forty minute one. Apparently there is a three hour case. And as much as I hate to say it because I really hate the platform X, you know, X dot com and you know what used to be called Twitter, is still just an amazing resource of people from all walks of life commenting
on stories. So you know, when you're listening to the Jacob Barber story, I'm not a military guy, I'm not an aerospace guy, and kind of you know, critiquing what he's saying, you really got to know that world again. There there are some fantastic people with accounts on X. Still they haven't moved over to Blue Sky. I hope they do at some point. But the the touch person is a guy that goes by the name of the average Chris. You do a search for that name on
X you'll find his postings. He himself is US Air Force veteran, and he has a community of people who have worked in the Air Force and they So the first thing they did is that a number of people watched the full three hour show and figured out that the forty minute admitted a lot of information that was not shining very well on Barber's background. So basically, the forty minute show made it seem like Barbara had more
credentials than he actually did. And again, if you just do a search for average Chris on X you'll find the posts that dig into this. There's a lot of them. It's something the average person like myself would not know, who had no military experience and whatnot. But the other thing is is that it is a news nation. You know, the blame is on news nation also for creative editing, for lack of a better word, And I mean I've saw that decades ago with stuff that you know that
Fox was putting out. I even saw one on pine Bush that Fox did where it was very creatively edited and made certain things seem likely that definitely were not. So it's a case of that. You know, what news channels are entertainment. They need eyeballs. But uh so, yeah, it's it's one of those things where there's a lot of questions about his experience. And then the video is interesting because.
Do you want to describe the egg video.
Yeah, so it's from the perspective of the helicopter. It's it's supposedly night vision. It's looking down the cable that is got this, and we're assuming it's the same object, this egg shaped craft. And somebody with military experience listened to the sound of the helicopter on the video instead it's Hueye. It's definitely a Huey rotor. It's very distinct. He's like, I find it baffling that there's no movement of grass or even you know, dirt below the uh,
you know, below the egg. Is that the rotors aren't or they you know, the blades aren't kicking up any debris or anything. He's like, I expect to see that. So that's one question about it. The other question is, and and somebody produced a bunch of videos showing in essence, weather balloons, and there was very there was a lot of similarity between him. Was it a you know, an open shut case. Maybe not, but it was curious to
see the comparison with weather balloons. So I guess what the take away from it is that it's it's one of these stories and it's amazing in the age of social media, how like within a week this just blows up and it could be your second job to keep up with with everything, right, It really is amazing. It's uh, you know, well.
That was not Barber's video. So, but he had the story about seeing an egg and his job was they you know, people on the ground I guess, strapped it in and they carried it somewhere. But he also talked about what he called eight gons, Yes, that they were discs that from above looked like you know, eight sections, and he talked about retrieving several of those. And then the freaky one was where he felt overwhelmed with emotion. I think this was the one that was in a crate.
He didn't even see what it was, but he had tears in his eyes and felt this something communicating with him. And you know, you don't have to believe a word of what he's saying, but how many times have we interviewed witnesses who said something suddenly swept over for me and I felt like it was communicating with me. So if he concocted this entire story, he really hit upon some very curious things. Again about seeing craft coming out of the ground, out of the side of a ridge.
That's pine bush all over with. So what I have not seen the three hour. I watched the forty five minutes, and you know that one about the in and out of the ground, because that's you know, he talked about trans medium and we usually refer to in and out of the water, going through different mediums air water. Very rarely do we talk about in and out of the ground. Yeah, so you've had a little experience with that in pine Bush.
Yes, yes, yes, I definitely saw in a mission of light come out of a field probably between a quarter mile and a half mile away. So yeah. And I don't think the whole coming out of the ground thing is hip pop culture the way say, the Hitchhiker effect has because of the skin Walker show. So I always kind of get a lump in my throat when some aspect of you know, paranormal studies makes it into pop culture the way that like the term EVP did when ghost Hunters went on air, and the way ectoplasm did
when Ghostbusters was you know, in the theaters. So it's interesting. It's like, I, yeah, I don't think the whole ground based thing is out in pop culture. So when someone mentions that it's interesting.
It would have been a very Again, if he's making it up, that would have been an unusual aspect to make part of his story.
Yeah, definitely.
But yeah, I've interviewed people who said they in pine Bush felt the ground tremble and heard noises underneath, as if construction was going on under there. There was the woman on West Searsville in the late nineties, early two thousands I can't recall who saw what she described as like the rings of Saturn, some sort of energy that swirled up out of the middle of West Searsville Road and on the lawn next to her. She said it looked like Fourth of July sparklers. So some sort of sparkling,
spitting energy coming up out of the ground. I mean, what's up with that.
Yeah, there's a long history of I mean, the whole underground sound thing and the whole machinery underground. It seems to be a constant in hotspots, which is super interesting. I can tell you experienced that I have not, but I know I think I want to say six cases in the Pinebush area. Then he might kill me. I think I think he experienced that. It was one of the earliest things he experienced, and it would be in his book. I want to say it was ninety three.
Do you want to explain that for people who do not know Vinnie in this book?
So, my buddy Vinny Police, I will say that he is probably the single person in the world who has had more firsthand visual experiences with the phenomena than anybody. He put in the hours he spent his twenties going up to Pine Bush and chasing and when I when I say chasing, I mean chasing, and so yeah. So he wrote a book on it in Wow, two thousand and three, called The Pine Bush Phenomena. We hope he rephes at some point, but there are still copies on Amazon.
But I want to say that his experience with what seemed to be underground sounds was in nineteen ninety three, and it was one of the earliest experiences he had. There were two other people on the road that we know of, and it was it was still light out and at the same I think he described the sounds as like almost like a train passing underground, but there
were actually light phenomena at the time. He always references Spielberg's close encounters when the orange colored UFOs are coming through the clouds heading towards the young boy's house, and he said it was kind of like that there were just colored lights in the clouds. Again, I hope I'm not confusing to report, so I'm sure I'll hear from him if I if I did, and take my lumps. But that's certainly not the only one I can think of. When we were still at the VFW that we had
a guest. Uh yeah, it's someone who's who's known.
The Pine Bush meetings.
Yes, yeah, I'm sorry, Yeah, the Pine Bush Meetings that that are still going on. And a bunch went out to I want to say West Yearsville afterwards and experienced the same thing. They experienced what sounded like sounds coming from underneath them, and I do remember them all saying like it really freaked them out, Like this is a group that has seen and experienced a lot, and that was something that that unsettled them. There is a body
of reports from the Gunks. Actually, if you go north of Pine Bush, there's a lot of stories of underground sounds.
That's the Chuang Gunk Mountains thing, yep.
And uh so that's you know, it's it's it's part of kind of the the lore in in the area. But also I think there's a lot of reports in Colorado of all places of underground sounds associated with UFO activity, and to connect Colorado with Pine Bush. The most mysterious character in pine Bush lore, whose first name is Dale, sadly not with us anymore. She experienced that activity in
Colorado and then in pine Bush with Ellen Crystal. Ellen Crystal also experienced blasts of air coming up from the middle of nowhere when she was in fields.
That I hadn't heard of coming out of the ground, coming out.
Of the ground. And so so the way she and Dale interpreted it is that something was building something underneath
that had connection to the UFO activity. And I gotta say, I've never experienced the air coming out, but I experienced three times twice on West Seers rail Road and once in the old airport off of Albany Post or close to Albany Post, like a small area where the temperature was easily ten to fifteen degrees warmer, like you could walk ten steps and be in and out of it, and walk back and be in and out of it.
I've never experienced anything like that and outside of pine Bush, And interestingly enough, I found a report from Australia, an incredible researcher by the name of Keith Basterfield, who usually is associated with government document stuff, but he researched a place of repeat activity and experienced the same thing, this really small area where the temperature was considerably I can't remember whether it was warmer or cooler. But again he said he would just walk through it and walk back
and walk through it. So when Ellen, you know, and I read Ellen's account of the air coming up, you know that resonated a little bit.
Yeah. Yeah. Keith Basterfield had a great collection of animal reaction cases for my book. Yeah, good researcher. So all in all, do you completely dismiss Jacob Barber? Do you think some of it could be true? Where where do you lend?
I'd say, I'm gonna lean back with a thing of popcorn and kind of see how it's kind of like the best way to approach all this. You know, it's it's interesting a guy everybody knows, John Greenwald, who has hosted The Black Vault. It's funny. He I always praised his research, but his I guess his mannerisms kind of bothered me, but over the years I've really grown to
appreciate him. And again, outside of the average Chris on Twitter, I think Greenwall has also looked at at Barber's case and it's commented on it, and he's always worth reading always, So there's stuff out there to you know, to take in to make a judgment on this, but it's it's evolving as we speak.
So I'm always when it comes to whistleblowers, I'm always on the fence because what are they you know, how do we know they're not there? Because they're trying to sew in disinformation. You know, there's the idea that some claim the government puts people out there to purposely you know, trickle truth or you know, they're looking to have their they're fifteen minutes of fame and maybe get a book deal. So I think it's I'm always on the fence and look at it with the skeptical eye that might be
the retired police officer and detective in me. Yeah, never never take things at face value without digging. But and Linda and I know some people in the field who have exaggerated their credentials. We won't mention but.
Exaggerated as a generous word.
Yeah, but yeah, I just think it's you have to always take them at face value, but then also step back, like you said, get the ball the popcorn out, and you know, really dig into their story and their backgrounds and see if it's true, if it's not true. And the problem is if you exaggerate one part of your background, it kind of kills the credibility. In my opinion, you could be telling the truth on everything else, but it's hard to then take it seriously.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's Martin Willis, who I love his podcast UFO show. He's a fine art appraiser, and he always says if he sees one forgery in a collection, it brings the whole, you know, collection under under scrutiny, under suspicion. So I don't know anything in Barber's the forty minutes I saw where he was not telling, you know, there was something you could say, oh, he is making this up. I don't know enough about it, but it's certainly it is
certainly worth forty minutes of your time. I think that if you're interested in this field, watch it, because what if he's absolutely telling the truth and then you put this with the other whistleblowers and what luel Zondo has been saying, and this wouldn't have happened fifteen years ago, right right, Chris.
Yeah, it's it's gone. It's definitely. You remember back in nineteen eighty seven, what was it? What was the special on like the W It wasn't the WB at that point, Excitings, it wasn't it was sightings. It was a while. It was a two hour UFO cover up live I think was was what it was called, Okay, and that was a huge deal. And that was the age of Richard Dodie. Yeah, and uh yeah, you know how put off and that was like a trickle compared to today's absolute tsunami of UFO
stories and claims and everything. It's it's impossible to keep up at this point. But uh but that's the whole thing is, like, man, it's been. Let let's let's take the recent history. The New York Times article came out in what I want to say, ninety seven, December of ninety seven.
No, no, no, no, seventeen.
Yeah, twenty seventeen, Like that's that's six years ago now, like and there was a whole generation of people that popped up on Twitter and then they call themselves a Young Guns and they were telling people like me, all you're too pessimistic and get out of the way, and we're like, well we've seen this before, Like okay, if you want to keep posting, like those posts are forever, Like if you listen to us old guys when we say, like, you know, we're jaded for a reason. And that's six
years ago. And a lot of them are just they're gone. There's a few people who are still posting, but most of them have been disillusioned and you know, are are gone. So it's it's kind of like the cycle keeps happening. Every decade, there's a there's something like this. Back in the two thousands, there was soorce A. Does anybody remember source a now killer website in the name of UFO watchdog dot net, which you could probably dig up on
archive dot org. And there was a super nice guy who used to go to the Pine Bush meetings and uh, but he got wrapped up in this sorce And again it's just like I who said, I, you know, I don't with all these hidden craft and you know, and bodies and the whole McGillicutty, and he waited, like I want to say, five to seven years of following this guy until I think he finally it's like, okay, there's just nothing to this.
You know.
It was promise after promise after promise. And but that was a weird, a super weird case because it wasn't a straightforward as oh, here's this guy lying. There were elements also trying to discredit him. It was also very nasty because it possibly involves stolen valor No, definitely worth looking up because it again it's it's it proves to you that this the whole whistleblower history, you know, happens every ten years or so, you know, like we have seen this movie before.
Maybe yes, can you give us the website again?
That dot net? Yeah, it should be on archive dot org if it doesn't exist on the UFO Watchdog yep, and a great website. I mean skeptically skeptically minded, but fairly skeptically minded, not Philip class, yeah, but super interesting. I mean I'm trying to think like every oh, I mean, in the nineteen seventies you had Robert Eminger and that's where kind of Linda Bolton Howe came into the story and a lot of people were taken in and this
is legitimate. They were taken in for meetings with I want to say, air Force promised certain things that were never delivered, taught, you know, told about vast films of craft coming and landing on desert beds, and allegedly a snippet of a film came out and it took decades to have the technology get good enough to analyze it to be like, oh, that's a jet going backwards. So somebody reversed the film and it was at a perfect angle that it really did look like a disc, but it's not a disc.
Well, why don't we take our second break, and when we come back, we're going to grill mister Burns and put them on the spot with questions, right, Mike, Yes, all right, sounds good. This is Hudson River Radio dot com, your local Rockland County station.
This is Hudson River Radio dot Com.
Well, welcome back from the break. This is an awesome episode. We need to have mister Burns on here more frequently. But I want to mention we've come full circle in the conversation. I'm listening to them, you know, explain some of these the unexplained, like the hotspots and fields, the lights. You know, Lynda and I's work with paranormal investigations very common in hauntings. Hot spots, cold spots, seeing lights, thing
things out of the corner of your eyes. And again, it sort of brings us right back to the beginning when we discussed this idea that you know, what are they really Is it really the heat you're feeling or is that secondary to the actual phenomenon. Is it really the lights? And so I find it interesting because the overlapping parallels just get bigger and bigger the more you look at it.
Definitely, definitely, Yeah. I was kind of shocked when I got to Pine Bush and got to know the regulars there, you know, the group that we call the core now, because the first thing that stuck in my head is like, wow, this sounds like outdoor poltergeist events. I mean, you know, the UFO imagery was present, but the majority of things experienced were ground level for lack of a better term, everything from little lights to temperature changes. You know, we've
had psychokinesis incidents. Yeah, super interesting things that would have fit better in a haunted house context. But even now after you know, gosh, thirty years, like that's almost too simplified. But that type of thinking, you know, as I'm learning rapidly, can be applied to the whole Bigfoot lore, which my god, that's you know, years and years of research to get well versed on that. And you mentioned Keel, you know Keel's It's interesting. Keelis is such a He's the classic,
the classic character in this subject. That he is a person, and as a researcher was really complicated. He would sometimes give the impression to people that knew him that he was kind of, you know, very loose with the facts and whatnot. And I got to know a guy by the name of James Moseley who's a legend. He's sadly not with us anymore, but he's he's a legend in UFO circles. And I asked him, well, you know, Keel, what do you think about the Mothman prophecies? Like is
that what happened? And he's like, eh, you know, some is some is it's that wishy watching this. But even him, he would bust hoaxes. And I'm talking about Jim Mosley, he would bust hoaxes. But he would also perpetuate hoaxes. He was just this complicated character that the UFO field is just full of. And uh, it's it makes it interesting and it's maddening at the same time. So you
read Keel and you're like, he's very forward thinking. And certainly Jacques Vlet and even Jay Allen Heinech towards the end of his life thought very similar to how Keel thought. But you know, is Keel also part of the trickster? Like you know, it's hard to tell. Uh, just super interesting. Yeah, So.
I have a question. Do you think the new administration is going to release any UFO bombshells?
I think if there was a chance for an administration to do so, it might be this one. And so if it doesn't happen, then we all have to think long and hard.
Okay, it's a good point because as of today, as we're recording for context, you know, they've ordered the declassification of the you know, John F. Kennedy assassination remaining r FK. Martin Luther King Junior. So that a big move and I kind of was hoping the same thing. I didn't want to ask the question, but you know, Jesus if you're going this far, you know, keep going. There's other things we want you to declassic.
Yeah, yeah, does that you know, if we don't hear anything, is that the uncomfortable truth that there's there is nothing right.
Or there's something they can't they don't want to talk about it. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. We are certainly living in interesting times, vastly different times than when we all started doing this.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, so I'm I'm glad about that. It's so much more open to discuss and uh people. The bottom line is all of this information coming out gives people the courage to speak who never would before. So pro or con with these whistleblowers, true or not, the perception is, well, if that guy has everything to lose and he's going on TV, then I can tell my story.
Yeah, so that's importantly.
That certainly is a is a positive. So another question I have, you know, when are we getting back together to go to Pure City and Pine Bush and then do some sky watching.
I would love to as soon as possible.
All right, Yeah, there's a great restaurant in Pine Bush, Pure City Vegetarian. I mean, it's an actual restaurant. I can order anything on the menu that doesn't that happens rarely. And then we just sit on a field somewhere and watch the sky. It's great.
I'm in on this one.
I haven't thought that yet, so I would even suggest, if Brian's up for it, do we tape an episode of Pure City.
Oh oh, I'm down. Get a little sky watching too.
Yeah, we get an omni wike. We put it in the middle of the table.
Yeah, I can pick stuff off the menu and there you go.
Chat Ryan, it's a fellow vegetarian, So twist my arm.
All right, all right, we just we need to get the okay with the Pure City there that they won't mind. And I love it the Pure City episode and people will be like, what does that mean? What is this pure?
And then record up on the record during the SkyWatch.
Definitely, so mister Burns the time that oh it was Vinny and Barb and Bob and I don't remember all else who was there. We were, as you recall, we saw those lights zig zagging over the field that night. That was yeah, that was very interesting. And some people who saw the photos, oh it's a no, no, no no, this thing was zigzagging tight zigzags back and forth, up
and down. We could not judge the distance it was over that cornfield, probably, but I can't say whether it was tiny and two hundred feet it was large and eight hundred feet away. I don't know, but that was an amaze. I remember trying to get a better wrangle. I think I was standing on top of a guardrail post or something, balancing up there, and I got to have my camera and I'm like, if I fall, don't try to save me, save my camera. But yeah, things are still to be seen there.
Yeah, it seems to be.
I mean, hotspots traditionally never go completely dead. They ebb and flow, and you know, as we've talked about, unfortunately, the more development, the less endivity in general.
Yeah, I think we need to start a go fund me page to raise money to buy a little plot of land and pine bush. I mean that is our dream, right.
Yes, absolutely, Yeah, Vinnie still hates me to this day because we were seriously talking about buying the very last liver of land on Marshmallow Field, right down the road from Angry Orchard. Yes, but I was in freelancing and freelancing was not steady, so I opted out and he hates me to this day.
Oh if we could have had a little just a little patch of land, set up our chairs and watch every night. Well, if anyone wants to donate land or large sums of money, please get in touch with us, because it's I'm fascinated and full of hope and anticipation every time I go to Pine Bush because you know, I don't expect something to happen, but there's a much better chance of it happening there than just about anywhere else in this area.
I agree.
And so it's it's continues to be an amazing, amazing place.
It's a heck of a story. Really, I just, uh, you know, I'll I'll dip out of being able to pursue it to deal with you know, everyday life. But when I get back into it, it's like, wow, it's incredible.
So yeah, it's it's a story that you know, has been told in.
Little pieces, little pieces, but not the whole.
I don't know that you could tell the whole story.
It's a is not known, I really do. I think a lot of it is is not known. And yep, and you know, I think we've talked about the town dynamics that neither one of us were aware of before this year that stretched back into you know, the twentieth century, and how that might have might play a role in it, so that we might be able to break through.
The dynamics of we don't want to talk about this stuff because it's it's bad and yeah, it's evil. We don't want to talk about the evil whatever it is.
So I would I would tell people that going back to Vinnie the you know Vinny has I mean, there were a core of people that spent night upon night out there. Vinnie, you know, is definitely one of them. I think Vinnie was the most mobile. So he's been you know, all over town at various places. And he'll say to me when I bring up, you know, potentially unnerving incidents that happened, or if somebody says like, I, you know, I don't like it there or whatnot, and
he's like, man, I've never experienced anything like that. He's like, it's been overwhelmingly positive for me, you know. And I have to say it's that way for me too, Like just like sheer excitement going up there.
Yeah, other than Indian Springs Road, it is very exciting. I'm telling you.
I don't know.
Don't you feel that there? Do you?
I need to spend somehow spend more time on No.
You don't. I am not recommending it, but if you're crazy enough to go, it's just something I go. You know, my Spidey sense goes on full alert there. It doesn't feel good, But every place else in Pine Bush, yes, it's that excitement and anticipation.
Yeah, I'll go with you, mister Burns. I've never been there, and I want to see, okay, but I want to see that feeling, you know, or what's going on up there. And I may regret that as I have in the past other things, Yes, yeah, but I would be very curious to see that area too, and and just to see what kind of a feeling might be different for everybody. I don't know.
All right, I'll go. If you want to record, you know, fifteen minutes of the show.
Okay, that sounds.
Good, all right, all right, I'll give you that much. But if the equipment goes haywire and sparks start flying out of the microphone where.
The battery dies, the battery dies or something, all right, So any other final things you want to mention talk about put out a request for anything.
Oh boy, just well you were very kind and mentioned my project at the start of the show. But you know, I'll just say again, you know, just hoping to collect as many reports as possible to add on to what we know about the area and again trying to make some conclusions and all a said and done, and you know, anonymity is absolutely honored. You make the call as to how you want your case to either be presented or
not presented. And and yeah, it's once again. The The email address is peb Mysteries at gmail dot com and the website is pine Bush Anomaly dot com. And my buddy Vinnie has his pine Bush UFO Facebook page and pine Bush Phenomena Facebook page. So the community is still out there. And of course there is the museum in town.
So oh yes, we love the museum. Love the museum if you haven't. I recently, just a few weeks ago, was talking to someone from Pinebush and I said, oh, what do you think about the museum. Oh, yeah, there's a museum. It's like didn't even really wasn't on her radar and didn't really care about it. I'm like, oh my god, it's a pine Bush UFO And paranormal Museum. How but it's not everybody's cup of tea.
Yes, yeah, and that's all right, that's all right, that's all right.
But yeah, so if you haven't been there, go there. They have all Mike. You've done some events there and.
Planning one in the April right now. Oh great, neat nothing written in stone yet as for a date or a topic. But I was in touch with the director there and he wants to do something, and so I'll be back at the museum and not just as an exhibit. All right.
Well, thank you, thank you, thank you, mister Burns. Always a pleasure.
Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.
Yeah, when, when it when, and if it ever warms up there in the Northeast, we will be getting together for dinner and a little skywatching.
That sound wonderful.
I think we can you just schedule mister Burns for like repeating.
Every other month.
Yeah, I mean, you know, we can volunteer, but I would love that. No, it was great. I mean it's always fun talking with you because you're just a wealth and knowledge, but you're also a great guy to talk to.
You.
You bring a lot of enthusiasm to the field. And you know you love what you do and that comes through and you're also.
I appreciate that. It's also just very easy to talk to you and Linda. So it's been a blast as always. And uh yeah, I'm looking forward to when the weather warms up and getting in the car and heading up north.
I'm ready. I'm ready for it.
All right, Mike, bring us out in your inimitable style.
Well, thank you to mister burns on behalf of Linda and I. Thank you to all of our listeners, whether you are new or bend with us from the beginning. If you're new, you can catch up with all of our podcast on any of your favorite podcast server. You've been listening to UFO Headquarters in the meantime before we get up the Pine bush, keep your own eyes on the sky.
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