This is Travis Walton and you are listening to UFO Headquarters. Beautiful headquarters, and good evening everybody, listeners, far and wide, near and close wherever you may be on this big round planet of ours. Linda, good evening. What a wonderful introduction. How are you? I don't know why I come up with them. I sometimes, um, you know I would.
I think we should probably tell our listeners that beginning January the the programs here through Hudson River Radio are going to be podcast only, whether it's through their their Hudson Pair of Radio site or on any of their favorite podcasts platforms. So we're not going to be doing live programs anymore. Tonight we are live and in person. I think so, Yes, I think I think we
are. It'll be the same great content. It'll just be um, not not a live program, but still be exciting information people won't want to miss. There you go, all right, different the same great content, different packaging. Yes, yes, excellent. Well we have one of my favorite and most intriguing cases tonight, the Father Gil New Guinea case. But before we do that, I've been getting some wonderful letters. Thank you everyone.
I love getting these letters. When they're when they're positive, they say nice things. But when I was on coast to coast in July, I think it was I had mentioned something about a rectangular craft. The people were seeing it look like kind of a glass bottom boat, very bizarre effect, and so Bill in Texas wrote this, So I just I think I should just read this case. It's it's fascinating. The main reason I write is because you are the only one to describe what I saw one evening around nine thirty
PM in the sky over Houston in nineteen ninety five. Being an FAA certified aircraft mechanic, there's a good credential impressive. I have a penchant for aviation technology. But that night I was working on a stubborn patio gate latch when I saw what looked like a huge, beautiful blue aquarium lie from my right across in front of me at about a twelve o'clock position. It was a mesmerizing greenish blue about the size of an aircraft carrier. Wow. Yeah,
rectangular in shape. Here we go with the bizarre rectangles and internally lighted. It flew in a straight line, first through the clear night sky and then a cloud bank at about five thousand feet and then through the clear sky again without dimming or changing its brightness. Then it blinked out. It did not fade away or dart in a different direction. It just blinked out. I
stood immobile, hoping it would return, but it did not. The sighting only lasted a few seconds, four or five, and he says, eliminating the possibilities of a searchlight or drone or human origin again, drones ninety five size of aircraft carriers. No, he said. I was sure it would have been seen by many, but not the case. Only one man in a hot tub thirty miles north of me reported it when I called the TV
station. I still think of it every time I hear the words you f Oh, that's what a great account it is, and so chilling because he echoes so much of what we hear from people. He thinks about it every that life altering aspect that people who experiences seem to report very consistently. Yeah, just a few seconds change the rest of your life. And I'm trying to imagine, you know, something the size of an aircraft carrier, how immense blows my mind? Right, I don't know what that I'm trying to
picture it and I can't. I mean, I would love to see it. I just th right right, yeah, that like a giant aquarium. I mean, I love his description and the fact that he is an FAA certified mechanic. He knows aircraft, and if it had been something conventional, I'm sure he would have been able to identify it. But even the cloud bank at five thousand feet, I'm like, I love, I love eyewitness accounts, like, give me more, be technical, be concise, but
and then so descriptive as well. And but there was one other witness I love that, a man in a hot down thirty miles north. So very very compelling eyewitness account though, I'm, like you said, very well written and explained. I mean, hm, I was picturing it as he's you're described. Yeah yeah, so even what is that? Twenty seven years later and he still thinks of it and can describe it so well. So keep those cards and letters coming in, folks, because I love your accounts.
I really appreciate when people take the time, um, you know, because it's it's you and us, you and me talking here, and it's nice to get the feedback of of people. So Brian, why don't we take our first break, and we will be right back with Father Gil. Hudson River Radio dot Com. Hudson River Radio dot Com a subsidiary of Glacier Entertainment called LC blasting the competition in New York's Hudson Valley, and we are back
here, Linda. I know you're going to be talking tonight about one of your favorite cases, the Father Gil experience, and I admit this is not what I know much about. I familiar with a little bit of the basics. I'm looking forward to this tonight because I know I'm going to learn a couple of things also, so I can't wait to dive into this tonight. Yeah, this is I consider it. I guess if I had to make
a list of top five sightings, this would be in it. And that's that's saying a lot, because there's been so many extraordinary things as we've covered. So we are going on the other side of the earth, way back to nineteen fifty nine, June twenty six, twenty seventh, nineteen fifty nine. At the I'm probably going to butcher this bow and I mission in Papua New Guinea. Ever have any desire to go to that corner of the world. No, a little too remote, a little too hot, a little
too hot, definitely hot and human. Not Nordic enough, not Nordic at all, not enough. No, so you can imagine Papua New Guinea in the fifties, probably very dark skies, like very so. This is when you have one good eye witness like we just had with Bill and Texas,
it makes for a good story. This is a case with thirty eight witnesses, and the primary one who spoke out and took notes and made sketches was a thirty one year old Australian. He was an Anglican missionary at the mission, Father William booth Gill, which everyone just refers to as Father Gil. So the mission was a church and a school, and it was in the hills above good Enough Bay. It's spelled good Enough, so I assume that's how it's pronounced. If it's not, send me, send me those cards
and letters correcting me. And it's the evening of June twenty sixth and Father Gill is on the lawn of the mission house and he's admiring how bright Venus is. And again I think things that are bright in our night sky or doubly bright in a New Guinea sky in the fifties. But then he sees another light and this is the first thing. This will be important later on when the skeptics come in. He's admiring Venus, but then says, wait,
what is that other light? And it's getting closer, and it's around dusk, and he yells for others to come out to see something strange is coming their way. So students, staff teachers, thirty eight of them. That's a good size. That's a good size crowd. This light, as it's getting closer, changed from a bright white to a yellow to an orange, and then they realize it's not just a light. This is a solid object. It is a large circular craft that got within two to three hundred
feet. He described us, and he wrote he did this great sketch. If you saw my Poe posting on the Facebook pages for announcing tonight's show, or you can just look up father Gil sketches. There were two sets of legs on the bottom of this craft. They looked like fixed legs. That's doesn't sound like something that would be racing through space with fixed legs, but what do I know? There was It was a wider section below. He described it as from his perspective and distance, it was the width of five
full moons. So that's that's pretty sub He's not looking at a spec No, he's looking at a substantial object from the top. Is a very thin, intense blue light beaming up out of the top of this object at a forty five degree angle, and it's metallic. It is, as they said, circular, kind of a disc shaped with another section to it. Pretty amazing, and thirty eight people are standing there seeing this. So so I have a several quotes from Father Gil himself. He says, as we watched,
men came out of this object. Not little green men, not aliens. Men came out of this object, four men in all. There was a raised section. He said. They were standing behind a railing at the top of the craft, like a viewing platform, so he could only see them from the waist up. Now this he didn't think they were. He said they looked human. He thought this was you know, I'm jumping the gun. But he thought some American or Australian technology. So they're not scared.
They're not panicking. They're like, whoa, what what is this new craft? They're lying here in New Guinea. But this is fascinating from so a seasoned. From the waist up, there was a curious halo which outlined them, following every contour of their figures, like something you'd see in assigned fiction movie, like a force field around them. Very strange, but again amazing detail. They're able to see so as in bills in Texas. His
four or five second sighting changed his life. That night, they witnessed this craft for four hours. I mean, I don't know that I've come across any other sighting for that duration. Four hours. This craft just sat in the sky again. Fathergil thirty seven student staff, teachers and Father Gil says that two of the men appeared to be setting up some sort of apparatus, moving their arms over their head like they're setting up something. They were not
so interested in. Father Gill and his people as working on whatever equipment this is so so they're so close. Father Gil said he got an idea and his quote, I stretched my arm above my head and waved. To our surprise, the figures did the same. They waved back. All of the mission boys. The students made audible gasps of either joy or surprise, or perhaps both. That's yeah, a direct response. Whatever this was, you're waving at them, they're waving back. Yeah, some life altering moments there.
So Gil realizes he needs to document this as it's happening. So he told one of the students, Eric Codawara, run and get a paper and pencil, because he wants to write down everything he's seeing. He wants to sketch it, not from memory, but as he's looking at it. So this guy's on the ball here. Of course, when you have four hours, you don't have a ten seconds, right, you have the luxury.
So he tells him also to get a flashlight. So as Eric's running back, he shines the flashlight on the craft and he starts waving the flashlight back and forth. The craft responds by swaying back and forth. Again direct response, does it really get any better? Not really? No, no, And then the craft took off across the bay. But here's some other quotes. I listened to a lot of his father, Gill's interviews which he did later on in life, and some things he had written down right away.
This is perfect. Can you imagine what it's like to look up in the sky and see a totally foreign object just hovering, not very high up maybe two to three hundred feet, glowing and two bipods jutting out underneath and sparkling all around, and some figures up there, this solid looking object in figures walking about on the top, and not the slightest noise whatsoever. Are we surprised that it was silent? No, no, not at all, And
so we waved. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could get this object down onto the playing field? And as we waved, wondering whether we'd get some recognition and perhaps they would understand what we wanted, they waved back. So in addition to waving, their shouting and their their motioning, land we want, we want to meet you. So this isn't a bunch of scared people running in terror and hiding. Yeah, I get them credit. They were
pretty brave. Yeah there, but again they're not thinking alien spacecraft and maybe it wasn't there again thinking human technology. Granted, remarkable, And then he goes on to say, the boy shone the torch, which the flat the flashlight on the craft, and so he and he did so he waved the torch, and we were dumbfounded when we looked at the craft as it was responding to the torch being swaying back and forth. So that is night one of the experience. There's a second night. So Brian, why don't we
which is amazing. I mean, it was just one night. It would be fascinating. Four minutes of this would have been fascinating. They had four hours. So Brian, why don't you take us to our second break and we'll be right back. This is Hudson River Radio dot com, your local Rockland County station. This is radio dot com. Linda um As we come
back here from the break. I wanted to mention something you had, you know, talked earlier about the sketch that father Gil had made and um As, I was looking at that the other day after you know, we had you had mentioned this case. It reminded me somewhat of the Randelshom Forest sketches of what those um airmen reported seeing in the forest. Not exact, it's not a on a percent carbon copy, but it was one of the first
things that came to my mind was that they looked very similar. Not again, these weren't carbon copies, but right it was like the immediate thing that came to mind was the classic what was reported as seeing in England and Rendelshom Forest you know, many many years after right right, just an interesting thing that yeah, yeah, I mean unique, but uh not unheard of um with this craft. So we've talked about night number one. I mean,
can you be lucky enough to have a second. So I do want to point out when Eric the student, Eric came back with the pad and pencil. Um, Father Gill is writing down everything he's seeing. Um, he's he's sketching it as he's looking at it. He is documenting it as it's happening. Which how many times you know do you have the opportunity in this field to see a report? You know? But again goes back to Randelsham
where they're recording it as you know, as what he's seeing. So uh so June twenty seventh, next night, craft came back about six pm and possibly two smaller craft were in the background, but they didn't get close. They were more seen as lights. It was hovering in place again about an hour past. And this is how blase they became. You know, you stand and watch something for four hours and then another hour the next night,
Father Gil decided well I might as well conduct the evening religious services. They are a mission, and he assumed the craft would still be there when he came out. I mean, would you take your eyes off it? No, I'd really give him credit for sticking to his you know, he had a job to do, and he did his job, and that's right. Will hold the services, They'll still be there. And he came out and it was there, and it was there for another hour or two. We
watched another hour or two, which is incredible. So we're looking at seven hours of sighting of this craft. And he said when it left, it left quote with an amazingly incredible speed across the bay in a second. So I have some other quotes from him and other things. But one other thing that happened later that night after the craft left. They said, at ten forty pm, there was an ear splitting explosion overhead. Nothing blew up, but I thought that was curious. He documented it. Is it a sonic
boom? Was? I don't know, but I'm reporting it. So news of this sighting obviously got out, and none other than Jay Alan Heinok of Project Bluebook at the time went he found this so compelling. He not only went the eighty four hundred Miles. I looked it up from Chicago to New Guinea once, but he went twice. That's how credible and compelling he thought this. He wanted to see the location and talk to the witnesses themselves.
What a concept something we're going to find the skeptics did not bother to do. So. He thought this was a remarkable case. Found Father Gil to be completely credible, as did anybody else who basically took the time to actually talk to him. So later after this, Fathergills started started thinking about what had preceded, and so this was the end of June, and he said, in retrospect, they recalled that April fifth, they saw what looked like
a sparkler on the mountain. Now the mountain is spelled pu d I. I don't know if that's putty putty. It was an uninhabited mountain that overlooked the mission. And so some sort of sparkler like light is moving around the top of the mountain. And as I said, it's uninhabited, and Father Gil's own words, no one would be stupid enough to climb up there. Oh, it's apparently not a safe place. So something was going on then
and on June twenty. First, Gill did not see this, but one of his teachers, Stephen Moy, saw a disc flying over the bay that looked like an inverted saucer. So things were happening beforehand, and he didn't come up with this afterwards and say, oh, yeah, this happened. He actually had written this in a letter to somebody about Stephen. He said Steven's integrity was without question, and he had actually written a letter before the
major siting about Stephen Moy's citing. And I should point out that father Gill, whose first name was William, was known as doubting Bill, so he was not a allible man. He was highly educated and basically let me see it to prove it, so, which is very important. So things were going on in this area before the major sighting. So eleven years later he did make a video, and actually he did make some appearances in UFO films much later on. But he talked at more detail about that shaft of electric
blue light that was emanating at the top of the craft. He said it just looked pencil with and that's I'd love to know what that was all about. I'd love to know what the whole thing was about. Obviously, but that that is unique, this pencil thin electric blue light emanating from the top. We hear about craft beaming lights down down it's very Yeah, it's not
common here anything being beamed upwards from the top. That's interesting, right, And so even eleven years later, he said, those waving men, I can't wipe it out of my mind. This sounds familiar. Again, yes, just from the case we read beforehand. He said that something that looked human, you know, waved in response to him, again, they looked human, which I think is critical here. And he said at the time, he said, no one will believe me unless I write it down.
I won't believe it either, you know, So for his own benefit, he wrote everything down, minute by minute. I'd love to know where those notes and original sketches are today. And this is something he also said, I had a rather academic approach to it. I wasn't excited. I was calm enough to record, common enough in mind to record the events without any trouble, and also make the sketches. And he again said, whatever these beings were were more interested in doing what they were doing than in us.
So you can't get a better witness. I mean this man is just incredible, you know, keeping his wits about him, keeping calm and having the you know, the presence of mind to write this stuff down contemporaneous to the sighting. I mean, in terms, I agree with this. This is definitely one of the top yes sightings, I mean, and you're going to love this. Being a detective, he put a man out in the field and he made him walk walk away until he looked to be about the size
of the beings up on the craft. He then took measurements and calculated the size of the craft. So he knew a little h he knew a little math, knew a little trigg there, and he was able to calculate calculate the size of the craft at about thirty two feet in length, assuming the people he saw were the size of the average human. Right, But again I am in love with this witness. Yeah, this is amazing. Yeah. So during nineteen fifty eight and fifty nine, so the year before.
In that year there were actually sixty reported sightings in the Papua New Guinea area, So whatever was going on, they were very interested for some reason in this area. And this I loved. He fully expected he might have dinner with these people on board, because he said, after having about four hours of this sight on Friday night, we were not nearly so interested when it returned Saturday night, especially after we were unable to persuade them to land.
You must also keep in mind there was nothing eerie or other worldly worldly about any of this. It was all so ordinary, as ordinary as a Ford car. It looked. It looked a perfectly normal sort of object, an earth made object. We thought it was a hovercraft built by the Americans or the Australians, and the people looked perfectly human. If it had landed, we expected men in military uniforms and we were going to invite them to have
dinner. Striking because you know, even you know, his initial impression isn't aliens. No, No, he's not. He's not jumping to the conclusion immediately I see something odd. This therefore must be aliens from another plan. And he's he's making a lot of assumptions like it's probably military. And we're talking, you know, the decades after you know, World War Two,
the Korean War, advances were being made in aircraft and rockets. I mean, I guess it would be perfectly normal to think, well, yeah, maybe the Australians of the Americans are are testing out their military gear, and like you said, they're gonna land and we're gonna see a bunch of soldiers come over and have dinner with us, not thinking it's aliens. I mean, right, So this it's so important. This is not thirty eight panicked people, right. This is thirty eight people who are like, Wow,
this is the coolest thing. I hope we get to, you know, serve them dinner. So what the hell was he looking at? There? Are you know? He saw something? They all saw something? Right? Was it human technology of the present? Some secret thing? Maybe? Was it human technology of the future. Let's throw in the time travel? Why not? Was it aliens from space? Was it interdimensional? I haven't a clue, and and I don't know how you can have a clue. No,
it's me. Could speculate all day. It's just the credibility of this man and the witnesses. To me, it's bolstered by the fact that they didn't jump to the alien conclusion. I mean, everything he's describing, I would love to know what it was. Yeah, and to have such a
close clear view of it. This again, we're not talking a distant spec he was able to sketch great to tell close enough to see these human like people waving at them and also those but also yet they're disinterested in them, which is what was fascinating, right, They're more concerned about, like he said, doing what it is that they were there to do their work versus having contact with them, you know, other than you know, they'll wave
high. That was nice, you know, but not yeah, we have we have something to do here, you know, yeah, what are they just baffles? I know, right, it just blows your mind, like, well, what are they doing? But but what are they doing? And well I have to mention the the evil and ridiculous skeptic doctor Donald Menzel, who I might add, did not travel to New Guinea twice to talk to Father Gil or the witnesses. He didn't even bother to travel once,
so he had no personal interviews with any of the thirty eight witnesses. And here we go, try not to laugh too hard. Why am I picturing him with a monocle in a really nasty looking mustache, all wax stuff, and he's, you know, laughing to himself and sorry if anybody'd him saying, yeah here, so here is seven hours of perhaps the most detailed reporting
thirty eight witnesses, unbelievable, irrefutable. They saw what they saw. Skeptic Donald Menzel said, they saw Venus, and Father Gil is nearsighted, and he probably didn't have his glasses on. And the students are all basically ignorant and un educated. He didn't use the word savages, but clearly you know their new Guinea, their new Guinea natives. They must be ignorant, and not that they're getting this incredible education at a mission school, and that these
students worshiped Father Gil and would do and believe everything he said. So how do you look at the planet Venus without your glasses and see the detail? I mean, you see a fuzzy ball of light at a distance. It's so stupid. It's just so stupid. I you know, if if Menzel was still alive, I'd want to walk up to when like kick him in the shins and just say you're too stupid to be on Earth. Well,
you pointed out what I think is very important. You know. Jallen Heineck traveled twice to the location, and in nineteen fifty nine that was probably will be not a very comfortable trip to make. Oh my god, yeah, you know, it would be a long trip to make today and a nice comfortable airline forget what they were flying in nineteen fifty nine. But he went twice to put boots on the ground to investigate the location. What any detective
or investigator would do. You know, Brian and I being police officers in crime scenes, you know, you don't investigate a crime scene from your living room. You go to the scene, you put your feet on the ground, and you look and you talk to people. For this skeptic, for this doctor to draw these conclusions without ever once interviewing the witnesses, being there, looking at them face to face to determine whether or not they're being honest,
are they being deceptive? I mean he's making very very specific conclusions with zero basis and facts, which absolutely you know, if you want to be a skeptic, and we invite skeptics, I mean that's what keeps the field honest. But be an educated skeptic, you know, do you investigate and draw your conclusions because you were there, you interviewed the witnesses, not you know, you're you're making broad King. It's just typical typical. I mean,
I don't know why I'm shocked. Well, Heineck had quite the rebuttal um. I remember, what was the first thing Father Gil said? Is he standing on the lawn of the mission. Wow, look how beautiful Venus is. Oh wait, but there's another light over there. So Heineck's rebuttal Gil mentioned Venus as a separate light in the sky. You know, there was the first thing he said. And guess what Father Gil was wearing his glasses. You might want to, you know, pick up the phone and
say, hey, Gil, Will, you're wearing your glasses. Oh you were? Okay, well there goes that stupid excuse. And then the thirty seven other witness is many of them were very education educated teachers, and the students were quite educated as well, and so they were not stupid savages, you know. Just oh, father Gill says it's a spaceship, that light in the sky. Okay, we'll all say it's such an insult. It's such an insult. Well, an Australian UFO group, the Victoria Flying Saucer
Research Society, I think put it very well. Gills reports constitute the most remarkable testimony of intensive UFO activity ever reported to civilian investigators beautifully said yes. It was not for six months that the Australian government finally decided to interview Gil,
and they clearly were not taking this case very seriously. So as December of fifty nine, again six months later, some r AA F Royal Australian Air Force officers interviewed him, and Gill said the interview consisted of two officers talking about stars and planets and then leaving. Okay, excellent interview. So here's what I will end on this. Squadron leader Fa Lang was one of the ones who pseudo interviewed him by talking about stars and planets rather than listening
to his account. Although the Reverend Gil could be regarded as a reliable observer, it is felt that the June July incident could have been nothing more than natural phenomena colored by past events and subconscious influences of UFO enthusiasts. During the period of the report, weather was cloudy and unsettled, with light thunderstorms.
Although it is not possible to draw firm conclusions, an analysis of rough bearings and angles about the horizon does suggest at least some of the lights observed where the planets Jupiter, Saturn, and Mars. Wait a minute, no Venus. I mean they didn't have they forgot Venus. Yeah, Venus always they got the other four planets in there. So he's a reliable witness. However, you know, influence, subconscious influences of UFO enthusiast. Do they not
know he was called doubting Bill? And how much outside influence was he getting. I'm gonna go out on a limo. It's probably pretty remote there. Yeah, you know, this is what maybe head radio. I don't know. Maybe he wasn't probably getting access to the nineteen fifties, you know, sci fi movies that were out. Yeah, I mean it's and it's not just Father Gil, it's all of the other teachers and the students. There's
thirty eight of them. It wasn't a subconsciously influenced man without his glasses on. Uh, It's it's so aggravating. Well, Father Gil died and passed away in two thousand and seven, having never wavered on his story, never embellished, never you know, it was the same story as and thank god he had written everything down as it happen, because you know, your mind can play tricks on you. Or you know, when you get older,
you forget things. It does happen. So if you have not seen the sketch, definitely go online again look up father gil Ufo and you'll see the remarkable shape of the craft. You can go to YouTube and here's some of his clips of hear him in his own words. I have no reason to doubt what he said, what he sketched, what they all saw, and I have zero clue what the hell it was and what would his motivation have been to make it up anyway? What was he gaining if you know,
if everybody's thinking. First of all, if if to accuse him outright of just fabricating it, what would he gain? But even then, what would he gain by going forward? If he, you know, mister Venus or just didn't see anything except you know, the right conditions and stars and planets and his own imagination. Yeah, the man who can calculate the is the length of the diameter of the craft, yah, by measurements and calculate. You know, this is an educated man. He knew what Venus was right.
It's again to me one of the top five cases. And I have I have not seen anything to discredit him or the other people or have any reason to doubt he saw what he saw and whatever that was, which is probably even fascinating as it is the questions it leaves, Yeah, what would you if you had to, if you had to guess, But what's your best guess as to what that was? I'm not saying it was aliens, but you know I can't because I just picture if it's. If it is
aliens, can you imagine aliens coming here from from some other planet? Why would they be so disinterested and just kind of go about their thing. But then again, if they were anything from not this planet, whether they're interdimensional I guess, or time travelers, I mean, to be so disinterested in everybody else, like, hey, they're making contact with us. You know, people are waving, we're waving back. So clearly there's an acknowledgment like,
hey, we see you, we're responding to you. To just kind of ignore them after that and sit there. But I can't get yeah and sit there for for it. Well, as he said, they seemed very maybe they were making repairs, maybe maybe something was wrong, you know that they're busily working on something on that that upper platform there. Um, I don't know, but then to do it all again the next night. So
stick that near pipe, Menzel and smoke it. That is my official technical conclusion, you know, just to discredit a witness such as father go with such I mean broad strokes like that. I mean, yeah, an Anglican missionary, like you said, probably didn't have a lot to gain by discussing a UFO sighting of this intensity. So I'm done. That's it. I mean, that's it. I'm sorry, that's all. It's very fascinating. I can see why it is on your top. I mean, I don't
think you could ever. I've never heard of anything similar. Yeah, with seeing human like you know, I guess I don't know human either human like or you know, humanoid, being that close, making contact but yet not being interested in what the people were doing and just sort of doing their own thing. Yeah, that is a remarkable aspect of it as well. And yeah, he seems like a great witness. Yeah, and listen to him
in his own words. Like I said, there are the clips on YouTube where he's talking about it, and yeah, he is somebody I would have liked to sit down with an interview. But at least his words are written and spoken, and there we have it, so take us out, Mike. Well, thank you everybody for joining us again here at UFO Headquarters on Hudson River Radio. Remember next month, starting in January twenty twenty three, Where did the year go? Linda three? How did that happen? He
will be not It will not be live anymore. There will be podcast only, whether it's through the Hudson River Radio website or through any of your favorite podcast services. So thank you once again for listening to us, and happy New Year for everybody listening. Yes, Happy New Year. Hudson River Radio dot com a favorite among shut ins and dogs