This is Kathleen Martin. You're listening to UFO Headquarters. Beautiful headquarters, and welcome everyone to another interesting episode, at least I hope. So. Unfortunately Mike Warden can't join us tonight. I know all you Mike Warden fans out there just gave a big thigh. He'll be back next time. Hopefully. He's just really swamped. But have no fear. We have a former guest and a former co host who filled in before to fill in for us.
He is the man whose experiences inspired me to write my first UFO book. He's also a very talented musician who composed the theme music for our show. So my brother from an Alien Mother, Gary Triibert, Welcome, Welcome, and the get to talk to you again. Yes, always fun to have you here. Thanks for filling in. I know it was you know,
a day or two notice, so I really appreciate it. We're going to talk about Pine Bush tonight, but before we get into the meat of it, if you're listening before June one, twenty twenty four, that is the date of the next Pine Bush UFO Fair, which apparently is going to be bigger and better. They have more they've run out of vendor spaces. This year. I think they have more vendors than they ever had. Yeah, a lot of a lot, more speed, more reason, more ways to
spend your money. And Brian, you will be there as well. I'll be there. This year, we took on more responsibilities as far as Hudson River Radio because I can't say no. There is the pavilion next to the museum where the speakers present throughout the day, so we will be running the audio for them. And in addition to that, of course, you and Mike will each be recording an episode of UFO Headquarters live in front of everybody, right, yes, yes, have you a fan of the show?
You can actually see us doing. Will be doing back to back and I'll be talking about Pine Bush and he will be talking about cops and UFOs. Yes, So there'll be a bunch of the schedule hasn't been set yet, but there's live music, and there's different presenters throughout the day, so there's always something going on. And some of your Hudson River Radio hosts from all the shows will be popping in and out, so come by and say hello.
That's the first time for you and Mike to record live there, Yes it is, and this this will be Mike's first time presenting at the fair. Also, he was there a couple of years ago. He also does the special effects makeup and he won first prize in the alien makeup contest. But this is a yeah remember that. Yeah, So this is his first time as a presenter. And so if you want to be part of a a UFO headquarters show, because we'll be taking some questions, so so come
on. But it's just fun. There's like four days of activities. So check out the Pine Bush UFO Fair website. And I think the fashion show is back, right the parade down Main Street at the end. I think they brought it back for this year. Oh that's great. That is a lot of fun. Everybody can participate. So if you're in any level of costume, everybody meets it. One into Main Street and it's just a parade that goes right down and it is just a lot of fun. That's always
so much fun. Yeah, So if you want to express your inner alien, yeah, or just go as a human and pretend to be an alien pretending to be a human. There you go. Gary, Do I see a costume in your future? I don't know, all right, So tonight, fittingly where we're doing some pine Bush I'll say new in air quotes pine Bush stories because they're new to us. People still keep coming out of the woodwork telling their their stories going back a few years or a few decades.
And mister Burns, who had I almost said his name, mister Burns, who has been on the show a couple of times, a great friend of the show and a great friend. He has the heine Bush Anomaly archive where he has been collecting heine Bush cases since forever, and we were hoping to get him live on the show. But he is another person who is swamped with their day job or night or around the clock job as it seems to be. So he was kind enough to record these three cases that people recently
told him. So we're going to play that recording, which is excellent by the way. After I thought he was just going to give me an accounting, and he gave this great audio, and I'm like, why don't you have your own podcast? So, Brian, I think we need to work on mister Burns to get you can never have too many UFO podcasts. You have my attention because being a lifelong since Simpsons fan. It's Sea Burns. Is Sea Montgomery Burns. Oh okay, right, okay, you got my
attention. It's a different one, but we don't want to use his name. But is it? Do we know that for sure? No, we don't. I think you'll have to contact him. So Gary, are you ready to hear this? I am all right? Roll the audio tape. Hey, everybody, My name is Sea Burns. Here today to talk about a few UFO cases from the Pine Bush area involving multiple subjects and what could
be called select perception of an anomaly. In the nineteen nineties, I started gathering information on New York's Orange and Ulster Counties UFO activity, ranging from media
mentions to first hand accounts from personal interviews. To give this effort structure, I eventually started the pine Bush Nomaly Archive, and with the help of Linda Zimmerman and Vincent Police, as well as generous contributions from many people who have stories to share, there now exists a sizable body of accounts, still growing
to this day. The goals is to use this body of cases to discover patterns within the accounts, and the recent emergence of a legacy siding has highlighted an aspect of some cases where one or more witnesses see or experience something unusual, accompanied by odd conditions that seemingly prevent others from sharing in the experience. I'll start with a case from the early to mid two thousands documented by Vincent
police and myself from first hand witness interviews. It should be noted that all witnesses for the cases in this segment requested anonymity in any public retelling of their experiences. This first case occurred near midday in the center of town of pine Bush, close to where Route fifty two and Roote three h two cross and during a winter month. A husband and wife couple were on foot when both noticed a compact car sized triangular craft above their heads, shockingly hovering at the
height of a telephone poll. After a number of seconds, the craft simply disappeared. After the object disappeared, the witnesses looked around to see if anyone else was reacting to the presence of the object, but despite normal midday traffic and activity, it seemed the couple were the only ones to have seen the craft. The object was present for enough time that the witnesses were able to describe and draw what they saw with strong detail, which makes the lack of
other witnesses all the more confounding. A second case presents a similar situation, but with an added aspect of strangeness to it. This occurred early to mid nineties. Around six pm during a summer month. A husband and wife couple had just entered the downtown area of pine Bush when one mentioned the odd lack of activity in town. Suddenly both noticed a rectangular object in the sky. Shocked, they continued to drive while keeping the object in sight, all the
while being aware of the lack of normal activity. Once the object disappeared, the people in traffic in town all returned. Like the first account, the object was in view for a matter of seconds, but long enough to get an excellent view of it. The third case involves a mother and child in an area southwest of Pinebush Center during a mid ninety summer day. While observing her child running around in a backyard, the mother was alarmed to see the
child stop suddenly and stare into the blue sky. The child started asking the mother if she could see it, but the mother could see nothing except an empty sky. The child's voice became agitated and eventually they left the backyard. Upon talking to the child during a car ride immediately after and asking the child to make a drawing of what was seen, the story emerged that the child
saw a cylindrical cigar shaped craft hovering closely above their heads. At no time did the mother see anything, but due to the reaction of her child, she had no doubt something unusual had happened. So what to make of cases like these, which seemed to involve select perception, sometimes accompanied by a distinct change in the overall environment. They certainly present an added challenge to both those willing to consider that a real objective anomalous experiences happened, as well as to
those inclined to doubt the UFO experience as a true mystery. One thing that can be said, there are a lot of cases like these in the UFO literature, and they have connections to cases that involve what could be called fugue states, where the witness feels like their reality is no longer normal. Researcher Jenny Randalls has written extensively on these types of encounters that she describes as having the Oz factor. John Keel also referenced the Wizard of Oz when describing the
strange state that witnesses of UFO events find themselves in. Sometimes one might be inclined to think that the OZ factor is proof positive that the experience is merely something psychological and entirely in the head of witnesses. But for the first and third cases described earlier, physical effects occurred after the event. In the case of the couple at the root fifty two and three h two location, the
wife talked about developing eye discomfort and overall on ease. In the case involving the child of physical change, the details of whis which I will keep unmentioned to assure the witnesses remain anonymous, as requested, was so pronounced that it was documented by a physician who could not offer a definitive cause. The physician's documentation has been saved, and while it would not be proof that the malady was caused by that particular UFO experience, it is my hope that the witnesses
will add it to their first hand account. Thanks to Linda and Mike for giving me the chance to talk about these cases, and if the listener is interested in learning more about the Pine Bush effort, please go to Pinebushnnomaly dot com. Thanks. Well, wow, I mean that is that is what I would call damn good. I could listen to a few dozen of those accounts. What do you think, Gary Light, Yeah, so let's let's take our first quick break and then we'll come back and Gary, you and
I will discuss each one. Okay, sounds good? Yep. Hudson River Radio dot Com Hudson River Radio dot Com, subsidiary of Glacier Entertainment, LLC, blasting the competition in New York's Hudson Valley and we are back. So, Gary, what do you think. I don't know what to think.
I'm sitting here at my mouth hanging over there. You and I both know exactly where that took place, at the intersection of fifty two and three three two three two right right basically in front of the Pine Bush Museum UFO Museum. Yeah. How bizarre is that? And that was in the nineties, early to mid two thousands. For that one, oh I tell you.
Yeah. Yeah. So just to just a quick recap, that was midday during the winter, A couple walking like right at the main intersection of town, you know where traffic is, Yeah, pretty heavy there, and you have you have the museum, Well, museum wasn't there then, but restaurants. You have a convenience store and the gas station there, and they see this compact car sized triangle. I love this hovering at telephone pole height.
Yeah, absolutely amazing. And I don't know. I saw a lot of odd crafts, odd crafts in the eighties in walk Yo when I lived there, and I used to go up to Pine Bush as you know, and meet Ellen Crystal. Yeah, in the mid eighties. But anyway, I saw a lot of small craft like that, and nobody else seemed to see them that I would tell, right, see, that's what That's what these cases are talking about. Why isn't something's hovering at telephone pole height and no
one else is reacting? Yeah, yeah, absolutely bizarre. I don't know. I don't know what to think of it. After all these years of experiencing, I have no answers. Yeah, now I wish, I wish I did. But one thing that caught my also caught my attention, other than a triangle hovering, you know, defeet in the air, was that the woman had eye discomfort and general unease, and it reminded me of something.
It's in one of my books. It was a case from Wildwood, New Jersey, to one thousand and eight, where you know Wildwood is, for those who don't know, is a Jersey shore town. It's right on the ocean. There a lot of old fifties, you know, kitchy type diners and motels. But anyway, this guy is sitting on the roof of his motel about a block and a half from the ocean, and it was
a cloudy day. He said, all of a sudden, the clouds open up, and there are three massive circular craft discs, he said, each one bigger than a seven forty seven, about five hundred feet above the ocean, tilted, all tilted downward. We hear that a lot for some reason, with the disks a little tilt to them, and he couldn't take his eyes off them. But the whole time he staring at them, his eyes
are killing him. They're just killing him. And he said it was like he wasn't supposed to be looking at it, like he was a lot of people witnesses say that it's something I wasn't supposed to see. And after about twenty mile minutes, he can't stand the pain anymore, leans over to rub his eyes and when he sits up, they're gone, and no one else seemed to see it. Yeah, amazing, And when was that? That was two thousand and eight in Wildwood, New Jersey. He was a great
witness. Interviewed him in depth and he told his wife, but he didn't tell anybody else down there. And what he was there was the softball tournament. It was a long time before I was told his buddies, and of course they all made fun of him, essentially, huh, but how you mistake three seven forty seven sized discs or any Was the boardwalk crowded? I don't know, I don't, but you figure on a weekend and Wildwood in the summer, there had to be a ton of people. Yeah. Yeah.
He even described the skin of the craft as seamless, he said, like porcelain. He really gave great descriptions. So you know, there may be other cases where people have eye pain. Nothing comes to mind, but that kind of connected that maybe this is something she wasn't supposed to see, and it's kind of a deterrence too. Well, if we make your eyes hurt enough, you're going to look away. I don't know, do you do? Do you know of any cases like that. No, No,
and I didn't experience that either. Yeah. Yeah, but certainly a lot of people, you know, you're seeing some bizarre thing really close, the feeling of unease. Yeah yeah. I never felt that way for some reason. And I used to chase them down when I saw them, which was really odd. But almost like once a week I would see some craft and walk hill when I saw I had a whole bunch of sightings there, and I would get in my car and chase after them and try and film them.
And I was never able to capture them on film. Always came out black. Yeah. I never had any physical experiences like that. And how far is wall Kill from Pine Bush? Oh, I don't really ten ten minutes and fifteen minutes. Yeah, yeah. So point being, it's it's
kind of an extension of the Pine Bush area. And you were there in the mid eighties, yeah, yeah, which I was having a lot of experiences at that time, and I pine Bush because in Crystal A lot of people may not know who she was, but she was probably put pine Bush on the map in the eighties because she was going up there and having these amazing sightings. And I ran into her and she started calling me and telling me when she was going to be there, and I'd meet her there at
the cemetery on Route fifty two. But anyway, I was having my own experiences. Yeah. And she wrote the book that which the name is Silent Invasion. Correct exactly. Yah. Yeah, And and mister Burns and I think any police were inspired by that to start going up to pine Bush. She I think you're absolutely correct. She put really put pine Bush on the map and drew the hundreds of people, you know, to line the roads at night. Yea to see. Yeah, so let's go to the second
one. Now, I'll just do a quick recap. It was early to mid nineteen nineties. It was this one was summer, six pm. So again it's daylight. People always say, oh, you're just seeing lights in the night sky. No, this is daylight. They're seeing craft. And it was a husband and wife driving into pine Bush. And there didn't seem to be any people or cars you know we've seen we'll talk about that. But they see are tangular craft, which is kind of an early rectangular craft
sighting. There certainly was a mini wave of them in our area starting about twenty thirteen, but this is nineteen ninety, so again really caught my attention, and they had an excellent view of it. And as soon as it took off, all the people in traffic returned and started, you know, moving again. It's like there was a little split in time or something that they're seeing this craft right. Yeah, we've heard that a lot where people
say everything seemed to have stopped. Yeah, so that reminds me of the girl in the Sandbox story from Montgomery, where she thinks she had been taken and as this was happening, all the birds stopped singing. She's looking at her mother in the kitchen window, who was doing dishes. She stopped moving. It's like time just stops or whatever is happening to you. And we hear that a lot with witnesses that they think something went on for there's something
screwed up with the time. Either it's missing time. They think a minute passed and it's two hours, or sometimes they think this event went on for an hour and like hardly any time went by. Yeah, you hear that a lot. Yeah, yeah, definitely, So you know, how do you live with that afterwards? How do you explain that that girl, I'm sorry, what she was just a little a little kid playing in her sandbox. In fact, Lance has made a display about this case in the museum.
It's a case I've I've talked about a lot. In fact, not to name drop, but when I was speaking at the mouf On Symposium last summer, Dave Politis was there. You know, the Missing four to one one guy who came out with Missing four to one one, the UFO connection where he's talking about people being taken and sometimes they're taken and they don't want
them and they're brought back. So I told him this story and he actually used it in his keynote address that talk that night, because it really fits the profile of this girl role was taken and then she hears we can't keep her because she's been damaged, and then she's back in the sandbox. And she didn't realize that at the time, but when she was born she had a very serious condition that required surgery. And so perhaps to whoever was doing
the taking, there's like, oh, she's not a good specimen. She's damaged, and yeah, really bizarre case that would certainly worry me. Yeah. So yeah, you can just imagine driving down the street and everything's frozen and quiet, and nobody seems to be around. It's creepy. You just hope everything returns and you're not lost in some bizarro dimension of I don't know what. And it was creepy, but you know, I experience that often,
creepiness and creepiness in general. Yes, yes you do. We're out driving, Yeah, but those may have other causes, so maybe we better move along. So why don't we take a second quick break and we'll get back and concentrate on that third case. Okay, this is Hudson River Radio dot com, your local Rockland County station. This is Hudson River Radio dot com. And once again we are back. I should have let that music play so Gary, that that music you made. I still love it.
I still smile every time I hear it. Thank you, Welcome, Welcome. That was pretty simple. I'm trying. I'm trying to work on the other. That's the new one for the oh I haven't announced that yet, but Gary and I, uh, maybe doing a Pine Bush ufo song. Yeah, so you've written most of the lyrics already, and Brian, would you like to take part in the playing of that if it is ready? Yeah? Yeah, well I do play out, I do have a little group. I got some experience under my belt. You can see what's behind
me right there. I see your bass I was going to call upon In all fairness, let's let's now that this is out Gary. How many years ago did I give you the lyrics? Oh? Lord, we don't have to go there. So I didn't announce anything. I didn't ask anybody about playing it, because there's the part about putting music to the lyrics. So if that's Gary, now the pressure's on you, see. So if you can get them, if you can get the music done, maybe we can
debut it with Hudson River Radio on June first. Thank you. I'll see what I can do. Okay, okay, So before I get anybody else in hot water, let's talk about that third case. Let me do a quick recap. This was the mother and child just southwest of the Pine Bush center of town. Again mid nineties, summer day, again, broad daylight. So this woman's watching her little kid run around the backyard and must have been very unusual to see her stop and starts looking up, staring intently.
So the mother goes out and she's looking up. She doesn't see anything, and the child is very insistent, can't you see it? And she's getting agitated because the mother can't see it, doesn't know what it is. So they got in the car and they're driving somewhere, and the girl sketches and describes a cylindrical cigar shaped craft that apparently was very very low over the backyard, right over them. She has no doubt that the way her daughter,
her daughter never acted like that. This was highly unusual. And then I can't mention the nature of the somewhat severe medical condition that immediately developed. The doctor could not figure it out, and they do have the doctor's report. So again, as mister Burne said in his excellent audio, there you can't say one caused the other. But the timing is suspicious. So is she still alive? She is still she is still alive. Yes, I I
think it finds. I think it finally resolved itself. But it was it was immediate, and it was intense, and it had no They could find no medical cause for it. Was it what a stress reaction? Did something more than her just seeing this craft? Certainly, yeah, certainly you are no stranger to medical things happening after a sighting. And and my mother also saw a cylindrical craft over the reservoir right here in New City where I live. Mm hmm. Was that Lake de Forest? Yeah, exactly, you
know you know that lake? Oh, yes, I do, well, been there, done that, see things. Yeah, coming home from a PTA meeting and in the evening and came in and announced everybody, and we all went outside looking to see if we could see it, but we couldn't that she had seen this object and she was driving over the reservoir and was like, you know, right to the left of hern uh, probably a tree top level And she said there was a light beam down into the reservoir.
I don't know if it was a lot. She didn't know if it was a light or a hose or something like. It was siphoning water from the reservoir. It's really bizarre, but yeah, we had we had a whole episode, uh was called Everybody into the Pool where UFOs pull water out of pools and lakes, and quite a lot of cases like that. In fact, yeah, back in the sixties. It's been happening for decades. In fact, Charles Lear, who we've had on the show before, who's
just out with a new book. He may be our next guest if I can read his book in time for next month. He just had a blog about UFOs pulling up water and mentioned and mentioned our episode, which was very nice of him to give give a shout out to that. But yeah, there's so many cases where two people can be standing next to one another and one sees something and one doesn't see anything at all. Yeah, and we
get that with the paranormal too, you know, ghost hunting. You one member of the family can be seeing unbelievable to detail, and the rest of the family thinks they're crazy because, oh, it's like an individual thing. I think some people are more sensitive to it, or maybe you're just being targeted. Yeah, it seems that way for some reason. Yeah, and you and I know that Hallie doesn't want to see anything. Yes, Halle
is Gary's girlfriend and she doesn't want any part of this apparently. So you know, if you want to, if you want to close your mind to it. But there's a lot of people who don't believe it and something happens. They're some of the best witnesses, the ones who think it's all nonsense and then have an experience and and want to tell the world because now that they've experienced it, it must be real, and I must tell everyone so
that that is certainly a common thing as well. But I think these three cases just really cement the whole Pine Bush mystery, that things still go on, that there are things we haven't heard about yet. Then and hopefully more cases will come out. One of the things we're going to try to do with Lance and the town is try to do some sort of presentation to seniors, you know, the old timers who have been there. Yeah, you know, and their families have been there for generations. I bet there's some
really good cases a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well we'll get it out of them. We'll get them to talk. People like to tell me their stories. I'm very I'm very lucky in that way. So anything else you want to mention about Pine Bush before we get to a couple of your experiences there, no, except that I'll be there. I'll be there probably at your booth most of the time. Great at the UFO fair June
first, excellent. So if you want to come see Gary in person, you know, maybe maybe he'll let you touch him and get his autograph. And I'm sweating about the tune now, but anyway, yeah, you see. I wasn't going to bring it up, but now that it's out the open, our audience is expecting it. And I see Brian is tuning up his guitar as we speak, ready to yet say look at him, look at him. The world is waiting for the Gary Treibert Linda Zimmerman Pine Bush
song performed by Gary and Hudson River Radio Extravaganza band. I just made that up. By we're on the spot now, Brian comeing in. I like a good challenge. Good, that's what I want to hear. So you recently drove back from Florida where you got together with the You and Hallie and Bob and I. We ate lots of food, watched bed movies, and I have to say Gary was a real trooper. He's a big Yankee fan. But he came with me to Mets Spring training workout day and we had
fun. Yeah it was my pleasure, Yeah, yeah it was. He watched me turn into a little kid running around uh with all my sports heroes. Go you little girl there I was. I was. I was a big little girl. So you, you and your pursuit of all things weird. You stopped at a couple of interesting places on the way back. Yeah,
I stayed there for about a month, I guess. After and on my way back, I decided to stop in South Carolina at the South Carolina Cotton Museum, and it's also a veterans museum, and it's also as a
little corner dedicated to the Lizardman of Bishopsville. Bishopsville, it's Bishopville, Bishop well, okay, Bishop Bill. I don't know if anybody's ever heard of the lizard Man there, but apparently in nineteen eighty eight, nineteen year old boy young man was changing his tire in the middle of the night and a creature, a reptilian creature, came out of the swamp and scared the hell out of him. Yeah, didn't it claw his car? Weren't there marks
on his vehicle? Yeah? Yeah, I don't know the whole story,
but I think that's pretty much it. But he went home and there were a lot of sightings and activity that took place after that, and so it's been kind of a hotspot for over thirty five years, and occasionally the lizard Man has still spotted there, and they have a little festival and there's a place called scape Scape or swamp I'm looking at the pamphley here all right, skateboarder Swamp, which is where this all took place, or the first encounter
took place. And anyway, I thought i'd check it out because I came across that story at some point. And it's a quaint little town, a lot smaller than pine Bush. Smaller than pine Bush. Oh yeah, wow, Yes, it's smaller than pine Bush. And you can drive down. They give you a little map and you can go down to swamp and look around for yourself. And did you see lizard Man? No? I didn't. Oh, I'm sorry, but you were there. I'm a little disappointed.
Yeah, I may have to stop every time I passed through. Yeah, but be careful what you ask for. You don't need lizard man scratching your van, do you? No? I don't, precious van, I travel van. So what else? What other bizarro places did you visit? Oh? And I left there and I went up to North Carolina and where the heck is at. And I went to the Cryptozoology and Paranormal Museum in Littleton, North Carolina. Oh, I didn't know they had one. Was
it good? Yeah? It was better than I thought it was going to be. I've been to the one in Maine, and I understand there's another one in Florida that I've never been to, and this one I just kind of discovered and went there and there was a guy running the place. The name is Steven Barcelo. I think that's how you spell it. I say
it Barcelo. And he had a little bit of everything in there. He had Bigfoot footprints cast and UFO stuff and haunted dolls and ghost ghost material and uh, look like I said, a little bit of everything in there. Apparently Bigfoot has been really big in Littleton, North Carolina for a long time. Ah. How far off of ninety five is that? Do you know? Maybe half an hour? Okay, because I might have to check that out. Yeah, it's not. It's kind of once you get away from
ninety five, you're like in the boonies. It seems like around it by woods and swamps and you know, feels and you can really imagine like every cryptid too got there. You know, I was seeing a dog man behind every tree. Yeah that it does get well. Even when you're driving on ninety five, it's you know, for for long stretches of road, there is nothing but swamp and pretty thick forest. It's it's remarkable. Yeah. So all right, so you're giving our listeners some travel ideas here, Yeah,
any any of it. I'm looking. I know you are. And we have a we have a bucket list up here in the Northeast that we have to we have to visit as well. We're gonna have to start getting on it. Yes, So any other cool places. No, there's another one Lumberton, North Carolina. Yes, stayed there, which I had some Did you know about the UFO sightings there? I think that was in the seventies. That was Lee Spiegel's famous case where he and all those police officers
had that triangle hovering right above them. If you don't if you don't know the Least Eagle Lumberton case out there there he's he Unfortunately he passed away recently, but there are podcasts. I think Martin Willis's podcast UFO he talked about it. It's remarkable. I said, cops were standing there staring looking at
this thing. It was a fabulous sighting. I've we've gone the way back and forth to Florida, we've stayed in Lumberton, but I have I've seen some very interesting characters in Lumberton, no doubt, yes, but no, unfortunately no triangular craft yet. No, but they still have sightings there occasionally from from what I've read, And you know, I tried to find somewhere in town there that had some sort of information on the original sighting all,
but I couldn't locate anything in the library or anywhere else. Yeah, so it's it's right on. It's a it's inconvenient stopping point when you're on ninety five there. Yeah, so well that's all I had. Did Did you have anything else to add? Anything at all? I don't think so. Now my brain is racing on these this plain Bush song. Brian, you'll have to you'll have to turn the heat up on him as well. Oh no, no, no, that's not how it works. You let the
creativity flow and you just participate. Yeah, that's all okay. Yeah, yelling at a songwriter doesn't usually work out very well. Yeah, yelling at an author doesn't help either. So yes, I'm I'm kidding Gary. If you get it done, great, there's always next year. I'll try, all right, Well, I know it'll be great. So thank you Gary for filling in today on short notice. Thanks a million to mister Burns. Brian, do you agree that we need to get him to start doing a
podcast? Sure? Why would I say no to that? Yeah, So thank you everyone for joining us here on UFO Headquarters. Check out all the other Hudson River Radio shows, and check out my books which we never you know mentioned, but I know plug those books. So thanks again for joining us and we'll see you next time, and keep your eyes to the sky. Hudson Radio dot com a favorite among shut ins and dogs.