Hey, everyone, it's Jackie Goldschneider and Ensler and we are two Jersey Jays.
Hi, guys, how's everyone? We haven't even seen each other.
I know Jackie has come back to us from Italy.
I was only there for six days, but it was magical. Yeah, I haven't been well. I keep saying I haven't been to Europe. I went to Dublin on the show last year, and I keep forgetting because you know that was like show, but.
You mean ever you've never been. I haven't been since my honeymoon in Italy. It was amazing.
I said to Evan, as soon as the kids are all in college, I want to go for like eight weeks, get a in a villa in Tuscany, right and kind of know in Rome, love with people.
Yes, I think it's the only place in Italy that actually haven't been mm hm, because we've spent a lot of time there with them without the kids. It was I know, I always hear that you were aware Vietnam, Right, I went to Vietnam. That's insane, which was over the top, you know. Jeff suggested it for our anniversary we hit twenty five years.
Oh congrat thank you God.
So he had suggested it, and I had heard people like saying how beautiful it was. And obviously there's so much history. I'm not really a history buff, but I just heard that it was so unreal and different. And the truth is, it felt like I was, you know, on a different planet, and that was part of what was so great about it. It's just, you know, it's like it was like sensory overload, and it was so beautiful, and there's.
So much history. You know.
I was like stepping in tunnels where the Vietcong had, you know, conducted there the whole war. And the people, the Vietnamese to these people are the nicest, really kindest people. I mean, there's so much poverty in the country, and but our guide was telling us there's really not a lot of depression.
There's very little crime. It's a communist country.
They don't you know, if you get caught dealing drugs, you're executed. It's also there's just so much history and there's so much beauty. We went we cruised Hawong Bay, which is like one of the Seven Wonders of the World, and we went to Saigon, which is like going to New York City, and we ate like our body weight in fu, which is like yeah, yeah, like the noodles, and it was just I don't know, it was just really amazing and it was nice to get just out of town and get some perspective.
Yeah, do you feel like that that.
I agree with that. I'm so interested when you just said there's no depression. I know, like mental health I don't know about in the United States. I think mental health is so much better. And you know, I've been listening to all these other podcasts lately about because I want to understand food. I really do, Like I never understood food. I always just stayed away from it. The first like quarter of my life. I just ate, like not knowing anything, just ate and ate and eat, and
then I stopped eating. So I'm at this point now where I want to understand what food to you because I really want to get to a place where like full enjoyment, full recovery, full everything. And a lot of what I'm listening to is talking about what the like the gut and how the gut impacts everything and like well process foods due to your hormones and your gut and your brain and all those connections. So I'm kind of into that right now.
So well, when we travel, Jeff and I are foodies. And when I say foodies, I don't mean that we only want to go to Michelin Star restaurants. I mean we love to eat, like we can base whole vacations around that. The three meals a day. But that was part of what was so amazing is that the food is so different in terms of the depression. That was what one guide said to us, and we had three
different guides. So when we woke up one morning, we literally went outside it I don't know, seven thirty because weet a pack day, and everyone was out and about in the square in I think we were in Hanoi, Hanoi. I'm still not pronouncing it correctly, probably, but anyway, and exercising and old people, young people, music playing, but not exercising in like a frenetic way. Like it didn't seem
like anybody was exercising to burn calories. People were either playing paddleball or they were doing tai chi, or they were doing sort of like a line dance, you know, and just with each other and laughing, and it was really really cool to see. Like I don't I personally because I always hated exercise. I don't think of exercise like that, but that's how exercise sort of is there outside of.
The United States. Sh It's really different. And just a quick question if you don't mind, not at all.
So, being on ozembic, did you find that you could eat all the things that you wanted to eat?
Or did you get like full and sick?
No, truth be told. I stopped taking it. Well, I wasn't I was going to be there longer, so I didn't want to take it with me. Oh so because someone wanted I didn't need to travel with it and travel with needles and whatever else. But and I'd stopped taking taking it the week before just because because of that reason, Like I wanted to have.
I wanted my entire appetite. I still do.
I still eat and enjoy, but like, but it doesn't want any like it stays in you.
I ate a lot and I loved every minute of it. It was amazing. And by the way, speaking of eating, I do want to know about the pizza.
Oh, the pizza. I don't know if you guys know, it was really good. So the backstory of the pizza.
So you know that I've recovered from anorexia I was anorexic for eighteen years, and even though I recovered, I still had a lot of disordered eating, So not an eating disorder, but disordered eating where I was afraid of a lot of foods And so I was eating enough, I was eating enough calories, and I was eating real foods now, but I I was still scared of a lot of foods. And right at the very tip top of that list was pizza. I have not had pizza since nineteen ninety eight.
Wow.
Yeah, So I figured, let me have my first piece in Well. I was going to do it in Naples, but then that didn't end up working out, so I had it in Rome.
Okay.
And the kids were really like supportive, except for Hudson. Love Hudson Dearly so cute. But the whole time he was like, why are you recording this? Who gives a shit if pizza? Why don't you just eat the pizza? If you want the pizza, just eat the pizza. Why don't we have to record it? Like he was touch a little old.
How old is he gets? Thirteen?
Right?
Yeah?
And he was such a little jerk about it. Oh but he was so cute, he was cute. Oh but anyway. Yeah, the kids, except for Hudson, were very supportive. And because I've never seen me eat pizza before and I've taken a number pizza a million times and never had it with them.
Have they think that they internalized it? Like they they know that.
You have think my older ones understood what was going on. And Jonas and I shared one and it was great. I really ate out of my comfort zone in Italy and it was great. A little scary for me. I do have this fear. Listen, I have a fear regularly of gaining weight. But with every everyone around me so thin right now, it's compounded, right, so, but it didn't hold me back.
And I really I ate very freely. And let me ask you, that was the pizza? Did it live up to?
You know, you have this, I'm sure, this crazy image of it and how amazing it is and yet how restricted you have to be around it, And did it live up to?
Yeah?
It was.
It was pretty damn good. It wasn't like my favorite thing. Ever.
Yeah, I don't think that I'm going to be like a pizza fishing auto, but maybe I haven't had like enough pizza. I'll tell you the best thing that I had there was I also haven't drank orange juice in about thirty years.
I had.
A blood orange juice and it was like it wasn't even it was like a red It was so unbelievable.
It was like eating candy. It was. I had a lot of things there that were just outstanding. If you're going to go somewhere to eat, it's certainly going to be Italy. Yeah. Yeah, but it was great.
It was fabulous.
And now I'm back in New Jersey, then most place on earth.
Let's not be silly. And that gets your buslers, all right, you guys. So, uh, today, of all things, we are talking about something that I've gone through.
Jackie is probably going getting through it. I I'm not sure.
Well, this is a really sexy, sexy topic today. We are talking menopause. Menopause, and I'll tell you how it ties in. I was with some friends last weekend and one of them just finished menopause and she said, I used to know how to lose weight when I wanted to, and now my body holds onto everything.
Yeah that's menopause. Yeah, And that scared the shit out of me. And I will say I don't know that much about menopause because I haven't entered it yet, I don't think, and I am scared shitless because of all the things that I have heard. Well, i'll tell you you as somebody who's now postmenopausal, I don't know where exactly, and our guests can maybe talk us through that where
you change from being in menopause to post menopause. But I at fifty one, I had my last period, like exactly at fifty, like my birthday, like in August of my fiftieth year, and I didn't have it for another year. So I've been in menopause and now postmenopausal for quite some time. I don't know that it's the weight gain is as dramatic or has been as scary to me. I always had issues with my weight anyway, So but there's so much about it that's difficult.
There's also I have.
I was talking about it actually during the past oversay or with my cousins because they always want to know what we're going to talk about on our next podcast, And my cousin Debbie was like, the menopause is the greatest, Like I love not getting my period, and I kind of feel like I think at one point I felt a little.
About not getting my period anymore, just.
In the sense that, like, I'm really getting older and I, even if I wanted to have a baby, which I didn't to was always my number, I couldn't and like that felt a little sad to me, you know, and sort of what goes along with this, right, there is certainly a deterioration and not what do you mean a deterioration physically, Yes, of your body. And so I guess maybe our guest will enlighten us a little bit on that.
But things start to happen, and especially in this day and age, when you can do so much about your outward physical appearance, right, and you can have like, as I know very well, surgeries and lasers and you know, you can exercise and you can do all of this stuff to look young, but you can't stop the clock. Yes, So it's like you know, and I'm we could talk about this also with our expert. But at the beginning of it, the joint pain was really bad.
Oh, I didn't even know about that.
Yeah, I'm scared of all the other shit that I've heard about her, you know, about like the that you don't sleep well.
I always sleep well. Oh, okay, and it's different for everyone.
So oh yeah, I could sleep anywhere any time period, Like Jeff's like there's twenty four hours in the day, you sleep twenty five. But the sweats and you remember Jack on the.
Show, Oh my god, so can I tell everybody sweet. One of the very first times that Jen filmed with me for the show, it was at Margaret's house. Yeah, we were playing like a game night and it was and Chen shows up and she is just sweating room.
It was horbying, horb Margaret was just drying. Yes, the whole season. Oh my god.
Remember the one when we did at Dolores's house and when she told me we were going to go to Ireland and that you just saw me just fanning myself with like a paper plate. Yeah, and that's a lot people, at least my friends and family and people that have gone through it and are going through it. That's the biggest complaint usually is not just night sweats, but hot flashes.
So that's really hard to deal with.
Although now I've now I'm on estrogen and so I'm in a different place or hormone replacement. But also, I mean it's not just listen, I can bring that perspective to it. But also I think our our hosts may tell you that you're in peri menopause, like whether or not you know it.
Maybe I don't know because I haven't gotten my period in twenty years. So I write my period with anorexia, and I never got it back right, So I don't know if I'm if I'm in Perry pre I don't know the difference between any of them. I have so many questions. Our expert is quite an expert.
Yes, by the way, she is.
Her knee is doctor Wendy Chorney. She's a doctor of physical therapy who's been taking care of women for over twenty years. She specializes in the treatment of pelvic pain, pre and post surgery, pregnancy related pain issues, EDS, sexual dysfunction, and orthopedics.
Yep.
She's a practicing clinician, educator, and author, and she is the menopause expert.
We did you watch the TikTok? She has a TikTok episode what do you call a TikTok? I don't know.
Thing that got like one over one million views, and it's like it's about menopause, but it's about Perry and then post and so just watching it for me, I because I've just recently heard about doctor Wendy, and I was like all in as soon as I started listening to it. It's just so interesting how women it's not, you know, a one year thing, it's it is. It goes on for quite some time. It starts probably before you would think, and doesn't kind of stop. Really, I
mean postmenopause, I guess goes on forever. But and there's so many changes, and I think it's now becoming this multimillion dollar industry like it hasn't. I don't think menopause has been talked about in the past like it's being talked about now.
Oh no, for sure.
I mean you google menopause and like a million things come up, right, There's there's quite a few experts, but no one like doctor Wendy. So I'm very excited. I'm going to pepper her with questions. All right, so are you ready for doctor Wendy. We're ready for doctor Wendy.
Let's talk there.
Hey, Hi Wendy, Hi Wendy Wendy. We are absolutely so happy to have you. I don't think I've ever spoken to a menopause expert. You, I mean, you are you're a menopause expert.
Yes, well, so by default what happened was, I'm you know, a doctor, Wendy Turney. I'm a physical therapist. I specialize the women's health. I specialize in all the things that happen to women postpartum, your sie, joint, your joints, muscle pain, whatever. But I started to notice my population aging and then oh my gosh, joint pain, frozen shoulder, planar fresh itis. Their hair was thinning, their skin, and like, I take
care of women for net pain. And I was holding the heads of all these women as they're crying, and I'm like, okay, can a fiscal therapist be a menopause specialist? And the answer is yes. I don't prescribe hormones, but I can help you in your lifestyle modifications, point you in the direction of the doctor that will prescribe you hormones, answer all the questions. So it sounds like I'm basically, yeah, best friend with all the answers, and I'll just point you where you need to go.
Oh my goodness.
Well, let me just preface by saying that Jen and I are in two very interesting positions in life. So I have not yet entered menopause as far as I know, and Jen.
Is on other side, Harry menopause.
I don't really know what that means. Can you clear it all up?
What is pre menopause, perimenopause, postmenopause, like, what is all of it?
Well, so here's the thing I think if we talk about it like as a general definition. First, so menopause by technical medical definition is three hundred and sixty five days since your last period. That is when you have reached menopause. But here's the joke bee kind of part
that nobody knows. Perimenopause is seven to ten years prior, and perimenopause is like seven to ten and it has two different brackets, So there's early and then there's late and late perimenopause is when you have those period changes in vasomotor symptoms, and that's when people think, oh, that must be menopause, but it is even earlier. There are
many other symptoms. So then you reach menopause like the one day, and then there's post menopause, and even postmenopause has early and late, and early postmenopause can have the bvasomotor symptoms like those hots like burning within the inside for a few seconds to a few minutes to not being able to sleep, frozen shoulder joint pain. So like it's a it's a transition.
What is I'm sorry why I don't I don't mean to cut up, but I just want to make sure I ask this because I'm confused. So menopause as opposed to perry or post does it only last that day? Like when I reached the year, I was in menopause that day and then I was postmenopause. Yes, kind of only menopause for a day. News, everybody menopause last day.
It's like the menopause. You should celevate that. It's like the menopause transition though, is what people don't realize. And then like perimenopause is early and late. There's like two separate sections, and then postmenopause is two separate sections. And the ten years like in the middle. So the five years before menopause and the five years after menopause is when all the worst changes happen. Interesting, well, like it's
a bigger spectrum. And so once you're five, let's say three to five years post menopause, I'm five, your hormones are yeah, so your hormones are much more stable. So mentally you are better. You are clear, you know who you are. You will fight the war and have zero problems doing it. Speak your mind. Your bone density might have shifted, it might not be the best. So this is where we like lean into your lifestyle modifications of we need to lift to keep that bone mass, we
need to walk to keep our heart healthy. You need to moisturize everything under the sun. You know, like it is kind of a different game, and we fight hard.
So let me absolutely in late Pree is pre pre is Perry.
Parry in late is in late Perry and early.
Posts is when you're gonna have most of the symptoms correct.
The ones that are most commonly known. Yeah, so like early perimenopause could be things like heart palpitations, anxiety. You've noticed your body is shifting shapes and you're like, why does my arm look like a hit? What is this? Like I've been working out, I'm meaning the same, why do I have this fat and less muscle? And so it's a whole shift in everything because people don't realize estrogen effects every system in your body, So your skin,
your hair, it's it's wild. So you might start to notice your skin is a little thinner, your skin's a little drier, the wrinkles by your eyes, your hair is getting a little more thin, and it's all these subtle changes. But people don't know. And if you don't know, how can you help yourself?
And that's because of estrogen.
And that's yeah, So estrogen is not just for breast and vaginal health, but every system of the body. And what happens in menopause to estrogen, So estrogen as we know it from the ovaries basically goes bye bye, like you have like one percent of the estrogen you would have had when you were twenty five. Like it's just bad. And then there are other hormones that kick up, like you might have more testosterone, you might have the weaker
estrogen estrone. But this is why hormone replacement therapy is kind of like liquid gold for a majority of people.
Yeah, most people don't feld.
Yeah it is. But like people think, I feel like there's a stigma even with the word estrogen, that estrogen causes cancer.
Breast cancer. I remember my mom.
Yeah, back in the day, there were so many there were studies. I don't know what happened to those studies, but I think there have been now more study is health initiative.
Okay, it was a bad research study that came out mass blasted to the public. So this is before social media and they couldn't like tell people, oh no, we messed up, we misinterpreted it, we did things wrong. And so now that belief system that menopauses old people and estrogens causes cancer, like, I feel like people think that and it's none of those are true.
When I went on estrogen replacement, I was worried about that because I had remembered from when my mom had gone on estrogen and then she went off of it because she was very worried about breast cancer. So I asked, well, I have a gynecologist, and I also have somebody who was in charge of all of my HRT and hormone stuff and papside anyway, but I said, okay, so it doesn't cause cancer, right, hormone replacement, But can it in fact like almost bring it to the surface. Let's say
that you have cancer cells that are brewing. By putting estrogen into your body, are you then activating you know, you're becoming almost getting things up and moving again, And so can so.
Well, still, what you're saying like makes perfect sense, right, So if it was sitting there brewing, would estrogen possibly feed that estrogen positive cancer?
Right?
Yes, But this is why we get our mammograms every year because we can catch it when it's like zero stage zero, you know, we can catch it. But our estrogen affects so many other systems, like, for instance, it affects our heart, so estrogen helps keep the arteries of our heart flexible, so we're less likely to have a heart attack. And the number one killer of women is
heart attacks, not breast cancer. Now, one in eight women will get breast cancer, which is exceptionally sad, and our friends will, but I think the majority of us feels so much better on estrogen When it happens and you get that and you're like, I feel like me again, it's kind.
Of just like I have to tell you.
Well, so I've been on it for I guess a year and a half going on maybe almost two years. But I had had a surgery that I get the pellets put into my body, so it's like a little mini I guess almost like a little mini surgery. They're all different kinds right, ways to get chestrogen so, and that it also has testosterone in the pellet, and then I take progesterone and I get my blood drawn all
the time to make sure the levels are right. Anyway, so I had a surgery and I think it actually removed the pellet, and it was all of a sudden, like within a couple of weeks, I was having crazy hot flashes again.
I was waking up. It came right back hot flashes.
I started like waking up in the morning, and I used to do before I did. Is still called HRT or is that an old fashioned way of saying it?
Well, they just recently started to change it to menopause hormonal therapy, but I still say HRT because I kind of want people to understand that. I say, if we say m HT, people choke.
HRT is hormon place.
Yeah, okay, Well I used to wake up before it like on a right angle like I was. I would literally wake up and I would have to like walk a little bit around my room to straighten my body up. And I mean what I was, I was, you know, early early fifties or getting down the stairs. I mean as literally was like I had a hold onto the banister like an old woman before estrogen. This is before estrogen. It was crazy.
Yes, yes, but this is why me and the phiscal therapists started educating on this because I take care of all these women and I have taken I run a concierge practice, so I take care of women. And I
jokingly say I'm a hairdresser for the body. And these women have been doing their same exercises, they're same walking, and they started to feel more broken, and we would do the joint mobility and maybe I would try needle them and they would just feel so bad, and then they would go on estrogen and then all of a sudden, their skins glowing, their hairs glowing. They feel like them and they're like, Wendy, it has to be and like
you're right. And then I read this book called Estrogen Matters, and everything we kind of thought about that study that told us that estrogen gives us cancer. It pretty much shows you in the marks of the whole lovely language. Yes, so Estrogen Matters is a book. I highly recommend that or is it just Estrogen Matters? So that would be number one in my required reading if I do like a women's health class, because women need to know that
estrogen doesn't cause cancer. But if instead have an estrogen pop you're saying yeah, yeah, yes, and so that it even if you go back in time, right, twenty years ago, the hormones are mothers and grandmothers were taking. We're not what we have right now.
We have a whole a bio identical or they were bioidon't right, what's the bioidentical the ones we take now?
So yes, so back in the day, historically speaking, the hormones were from pregnant horse urine and it's a whole different thing. And we can even get estrogen patches which remove the clotting issue that people worry about.
For fourteen years. Did you not know?
Yeah, well I had anorexia, so I lost my period twenty years ago and my doctors were concerned I had zero estrogen level.
I mean all my kids, yes, saving but yeah, it could be a saving grace for you.
Right, So, like you can all this.
As anything doctor could certainly tell you.
I mean, there's very it's a very easy thing to know, right, I don't know, is there a blood tests?
Well, so here's the thing, So you guys are in two different stages and so Perimenopause comes in like a whisper, and you can't exactly hear it if you're not listening for it, and it won't show when your blood tests. It shows up in your symptoms. But when you're close to reaching menopause, like so, say you're in that last three years of perimenopause, you can have two different things show up in your blood work AMH and f s H these two markers, and your blood work will show
how much do your ovaries have left? Right, so your ovaries are putting out little eggs, and eventually, as you're getting close to the end, it's like, okay, I'm going to send you a message I'm almost done, and you can find that in blood work. Okay, but your normal doctor may or may not even know that. And this is why a majority of women who come to see me and they're I'm screening women for perimenopause as a physical therapist. I'm screening them because I think I know them.
And then they're emotionally laybile and they're crying and they're so tough, and I'm like, why are you crying? This is not you?
Did you say?
I'm sorry?
I have to interrupt you do you say emotionally laybile? I like new words.
What is that?
What is that?
Laybile?
Basically I never that word before.
Usually, well, usually your friends would that would keep it together, that they're unhinged, and you're.
Like, what is Oh I'm never I was always unhinged to you, I never had well.
So you know your friends when they're postpartum and those hormones are like hard, maybe like perimenopause, those hormonal shifts are that violent, and so they're just.
Labile crying all right, So what do you do to then? For women short of estrogen?
Like, so, if you're not prescribing them estrogen, what can you do for them?
Oh?
Massive amounts of things. So I am the friend that comes alongside you and drags you too. You feel better, So I am lovingly prodding them on. Okay, let's let's get our lifestyle modifications down. Are you lifting because you're going to have to lift three times a week for at least twenty minutes to turn on your human growth hormone. Because our estrogen's leaving, everything's kind of like melting down. Our muscles are going away, our bone density is going away.
So I'm going to kind of prod you to be like, listen, your arm's going to turn into squish, squish. You're going to have to lift if you want to be strong, because you're losing one percent of muscle mass in essence after forty.
So my goal is lift.
So I have been, but I will tell you that it's interesting to exercise for those reasons as opposed to my whole life using exercise as a weight management tool.
But now that does not work now, yeah.
But the difference also is at at least I have found this this kind of exercise, lifting is so much more enjoyable, right, like as opposed to running on a treadmill or you know whatever.
Some people love that.
I'm just really talking about me, you know, being able like lifting weights. It's such a different thing, and knowing also that I really am doing it to be stronger, not just to be thinner. And there's like a pressure that it goes away. Yes, yeah, it's a sing and
it feels really empowering. And for me also after being on semi glue tide, like you lose muscle from that as well, and so I was warned about that, but knowing of course that as I get older, they say you want to lift your grandkids, you better start, you know, lifting now. And I would like to lift a grand kid, so anyway, but that type of exercise. And I don't go to the gym and do heavy you know, machines, but I lift weights.
That's it.
I you know, I actually have somebody now that comes so that I can stay on my game.
So, doctor Wendi, can I ask you about some of the emotional aspects because that really scares me.
That's well, that's because that is the early kind of symptoms of perimenopause. And that's what gets you because you didn't know that that was tied in. And that's kind of one of those early secret things. Like you could feel more anxious, you could feel kind of like nervous, you could feel like panic detects well, estrogen, remember, is protective. That's what I kind of try to tell my patients.
I'm like, I want you to know that estrogen is protective, and it's protective across the board, right, So it's protective of your breast health, your vaginal health. We know your skin, we know your hair, but also your brain. And so when you feel like, oh my gosh, I feel a little crazy, that's that volatile hormones shifting, and as you get further along in life, I mean all of us, as we age, we're losing our eggs. We're putting them out,
they're going away, We're putting them out. But as we get closer to the end, it's so much harder for that ovary to put out that little egg, and your hormones are just all over, and so your emotions are all over. Now she's postmenopause, so she doesn't have that fluctuation, so she kind of feels like a rock star. She's like solid, she knows who she is.
We talked about about like the beauty of getting older. One of the many things that's good.
About it has been this attitude that I have that is so different.
You're stable hormonally, and we have to appreciate that we are cyclical beings. But when you are in that moment and you feel all those feelings, you know, the research does show that women going through perimenopause do not get more diagnoses of depression. They just feel those depressive symptoms come back again. They feel them very intensely. Because estrogen is neuroprotective, it's protective of our brain and now our
old problems could be coming back to bother us. So I only figured out I was perimenopause because I'm writing a book on the science of women's health and wellness, and I was like typing all these symptoms, I'm like, yes, yes, yes, right, and then the other part that kind of struck me. There's two things, and see if it speaks to you. It reminded me of my postpartum blues, because my brain the two days before my period was no longer me.
I felt horrible, I felt anxious, and I felt worried, and it reminded me of how I felt postpartum.
Do you ever feel that I wasn't an experience.
I don't remember experiencing too much what post partum?
I had very bad postpartum anxiety, not depression. I had anxiety, like.
Yeah, well, I mean I know a lot, a lot a lot of women do experience that. One thing that I managed to escape. Doctor Wendy, let me ask you this. So, in terms of depression tied into menopause, one of the things that I have heard and that some of my friends have tried, especially with hot flashes, is a very low dose of let's say prozac. I think I think maybe it's just prozac helps hot flashes. I mean, I'm you know, I'm a prozac baby. I've been on prozac
for as long as I can remember. But I think it's interesting that you know, it doesn't it's not only for the mind, but also physically can help you with some of these menopausal and I don't know, maybe perimenopausal symptoms. And there's such a stigma around antidepressants, they can also maybe help you physically.
Is that true?
Yes, So, so when you look at who is in control of prescribing prescriptions and doing the regulations. The North American Menopause Society, which is rebranded to the Menopause Society, every year puts out recommendations and they do recommend SSRIs, which is the select of serotonin reuptake they are. They do recommend that.
However, I recommend them too.
By the way, the gold standard though is hormones is estrogen. So like technically speaking, if they were to pick, they'd
pick replacing your hormones if you can. And sometimes people get estrogen or they get their menopause hormone therapy and it's still like they still don't feel right, and then they will add in that SSRI so, but some people are so opposed to both and so menopause, that transition is a very unique experience based on you, your chemicals, your genetics, and so yeah, I am personally for both of those because I am on both of those too. I feel the same way you do. But it changed my life.
But I had an epiphany because I couldn't recognize perimenopause and myself. At first, it was my facialist when I was getting like laser electrolysis for like, what the heck is his face here? And then I'm crying to my facialists like I don't know what's row with me. I'm happy, I have a good job, I love my partner well. And she's like, Wendy, do you feel like there's a blue.
Cloud that publish you? And I'm like not black.
She like pats my arm, She's like, you need to go on your hormones and go back on your antidepressants. Liked oh, and then it went away. Okay, So can I ask you a question.
Let's say you have somebody who really doesn't want to use hormones. Are there holistic ways that people can improve their well being during before and after?
Yes, what well. So menopause is a unique experience. Every person's experience is unique, and how you treat your menopause is also unique based on your beliefs. There are some of my patients that don't want to see a menopause specialist. There are some of my patients that say me up, tell me when can I see him next week? And so there are so many options. But I do believe whether you want to do hormones or not, this is
where I come in the lifestyle modifications. So I am about to do a study this fall for the use of yoga for perimenopause and menopause because it will help you have as a tool, calm your mind, help you breathe, help keep your joints flexible. An example is that yoga doesn't actually change your basomotor symptoms according to the Menopause Society, but it does make you feel better. In that moment. Your joints feel looser. You've had a moment to stop
and be you. You've had maybe twenty minutes where somebody's not touching you, and that helps you regulate your nervous system, which that menopause transition is. Everything's justsregulated. Your nervous systems just regulated. Your hormones are just regulated. So moving keeps you flexible and helps quite your mind. And those are the things I kind of lean into because it's free. Everyone can do it, but it's hard because you have to change your lifestyle, and we try to do it
in a little bit. Now. Some people believe in certain supplements. The Menopause Society doesn't necessarily recommend anything in replacement, like a non hormone, non hormonal kind of drug, but they do suggest that you nourish yourself. Right, So what I tell my patients are are you living your best life? Are you getting twenty five grams of fiber a day because you need to have fiber to get that estrogen and all those hormones as you metabolize them through you.
Are you consuming enough protein because we know your muscle mass is leaving during this transition, things like that. So taking omega threes because estrogen helps you with inflammation, and taking.
I take the mega omega threes, I take what do they I bet you know them, those big yellow ones? Oh my god, and they like have brought my cholesterol down and Jeff, my husband's cholesterol down. What do they call Oh it's They're amazing and they tate. They have like a lemon scent. They don't smell like I know, I have to run a stair, I know, right, But Monday, I thought maybe you would know. They're expensive, they're on the they're on the pricey side.
I don't. Well, so I use the brand Nordic Naturals. Yes, I also have. I think yes, Okay, I think yeah, probably it is so probably, but like, notice how you said and I didn't even say this, but notice how you said. You know what, It brought my cholesterol down because when your hormones left the party, when estrogen said bye bye, and estrogen is protective of everything, your court is all slowly creeped up. Your cholesterol slowly creeped up.
Then you started taking Omega threes to take your inflammation down, and then your cholesterol came down. And I asked you, like, can I start taking you can take Omega threes?
Now they get kids for brain function.
Right, yes, brain function?
Yeah, my numbers are all yeah, so all the time.
Some of my patients don't even want to take Omega three is because they eat salmon three times a week, so they're getting their omega threes from oily fish and I'm like, okay, great, so we're checking off the boxes. Are you doing your fiber now, you're doing your omega threes? You know, next we got to do are you eating protein? Because we have to nourish you. We have to help you make muscle. Because the weird thing is estrogen is tied to your muscle. And that's the crazy part, right,
That's something that I learned recently. Because we know that testoster is important for men's muscle. Why did we never think that estrogen was important for our muscle? Why did we never think that? The research just now shows that.
So and you're and you also your testosterone does go down as well. Right, so even in women, it is related to muscle testosterone. Right, I'm making this up, certainly, no more than I do. Nope, it's fair raising both, right, and I don't even know. And then throw progesterone in. Don't ask me. I have no idea what that does. But I think you're supposed to have it, right if.
Your text it's the lining of your it protects your uterus. So if you have a uterus, you if you take estrogen, you're going to take progesterone. But if you see a menopause specialist, they will know those things. So that's the joy of seeing a specialist that you're like, listen, here
are my symptoms. Help me. But as a fiscal therapist, I screen people for perimenopause and then I say, please go talk to your doctor step one, talk to your OBGYN, talk to your family medicine, whoever you can talk to, and if they deny you a conversation, we go to someone else. And I can't tell you how many of my patients, how many doctor visits, how many specialists they
had to see to find somebody to give them the conversation. Yes, because apparently menopause is not taught in med school, and unless you have a specialty, many people feel uncomfortable prescribing hormones or even having the conversation.
Yes, I know that's true.
I know that my mic onecologist was willing to give me, I guess, some cream for vaginal dryness and for all the other treats that come along with menopause. But the pellets were a different thing, and so we had discussions about them. He's not necessarily all for them for different reasons, not because of cancer because he actually thinks that they could affect your heart.
I've read so much now.
And there's so many different things, right, So it's so many different camps. So you make your menopause plan that is unique for you, for how you feel, for your symptoms. But it's not easy to find a healthcare provider. So I always tell my patients to go to menopause dot org, type in new zip code and find a practitioner near you. And people really have to fight to be seen if there is no one near you. There are telehealth options
thanks to covid. For instance. I work closely with a company called Alloy a l o y dot com and they are leading the charge on women's health. They are doing things in Washington. They have the best in the country working for them, and they're really like top notch.
Do insurance companies tend to hover the hormone replacement for women in menopause mind mind doesn't really.
They can it's not compounded. If you take a pill, if a progesterone pill, I think when I say.
Maybe, but now what I'm doing with this I don't know, and we're all going to run out of time. But I also would love to know what you think about the pellets versus the creams and the patches.
But you know, oh, that's it's fascinating. I can tell you that a little bit. But I'm low in testosterone. There is no FDA approved testosterone for females. So I pay fifty plus bucks a month to have compounded testosterone with progesterone to help me. And it's a shame that we don't even have FDA of approval, but men do, so men can get a prescription for testosterone, but I can't, so I have to pay a compounding pharmacy to do it.
But the thing is, it's interesting is I started to notice that because my muscle bulk was going away and I'm lifting and I'm working now, and where are my muscles well? Because my testosterone was low, because my hormones were shifting and my body was changing shapes. And that's that part of me as a physical therapist. I'm listening to these women like cry on my table, like I'm sad, i feel fat, I'm gaining weight. I haven't changed my diet, and I'm like, I know what to do.
I know what to do?
You know, going to find you a menopause specialist.
Because we try to be an all inclusive podcast as much as possible men. And it's funny because I was discussing this with my husband when he was asking me about what our next episode is going to be whatever, But there are at I think similar ages. There are things going on with men as well. I don't know if there's something I.
Call it menopause, right, thank you, thank you Paul.
And what's involved in MANIF And I want to I just want all of our listeners. I'm hoping that we have all different sexes, so to know that you're not alone.
We're not alone. Right, Something does happen to men as well? What happens to men? They don't lose their pair, also.
Get low testosterone manifact. I actually talked to the well so they will have kind of similar symptoms to women, like how we do with menopause. They might feel fatigued, they might feel kind of blue, and they can't make muscle. And one of the things that you can do to help your testosterone is lift, like move your body a lift, But men have to work harder and they have to lift longer to turn on their human growth hormone and
get that testosterone boost. Thean women. Women only have to technically lift twenty minutes to turn on our human growth hormone and get things going. Men have to do like forty forty five minutes.
Wow.
Finally, Yes, I know, because I don't feel bad for men on a gender Wow.
So if a woman who's going through menopause, I know. Jen was saying that one of the things that affected her was she was very sad about not being able to have children anymore, whether or not you want it.
No, I didn't want I didn't want more children. It's just this idea that my body couldn't, that.
You can't, And that's sort of like one of the things that being a woman is is being able to bear a child.
So when that's over, you can.
So there are some people that feel that very deeply. You're right. So as the person who is, I'm to say, I'm your BFF, your friend that's going to drag you through this. You know, I will say, well, what are you planning on having more kids? And they're like no, no, and I'm like okay, but we were always meant to have this transition, right, we don't want to have children
forever and always. Now I will say I have learned from TikTok that it is very sad for some because some women desperately wanted children and they tried and they tried, and menopause is heartbreaking for them because they didn't get that chance. And and that that is just that is I don't want to that is that is that is supreme sadness. That's a different sadness.
That's different, and I don't I don't want to compare that. And I again, very I don't know that it was about the fact that I couldn't have children. It was about the fact that my body is definitely getting older, and there's no denying it, no matter how many.
Faceless I have. Doesn't if you're j Low, yes.
Yes, there's not botox that could make me fertile again. And so I think it's just there's this realization about the fact that maybe even mortality right like it's happening. I am, I am getting old, and yet.
Jen Fessler, I will say, you look better than I have ever seen you look ever, and I've only.
Known I like this. I like this episode.
This was this was your glow up.
You look young.
Listen, That's not just although I will say I feel like the hormone replacement absolutely makes me glow. I don't my jointstone, all of what doctor Wendy has been discussing with us, hair all of that. But I've also yes, but I've also spent plenty of money in uh plastics.
Let's get yeah my final que let me say something about that sadness. Yes. So here's the thing. So there is sadness in our culture with menopause because I think there's like a hush hush, we've normalized women's suffering. In other countries, it is not seen the same way it is here. It is seen as, let's say, in Asia, it is seen as Wow, what a release. I don't have to worry about fertility anymore. My body's my own, I have wisdom, I'm the top of my family. I
am the leader I like. So it has a whole different view.
And I can't believe you're saying this and that's where that is self, because I was just saying to Jackie, I was in Vietnam for almost two weeks and I just got back. But in terms of like the the older generations, there's such it feels so different, like there's not First of all, there's not bota and there's not
even dyeing your hair, right, there's this acceptance. A lot of times the grandparents are taking care of the children because they stop working and they and then their kids are working, and so they're still vital and they're still living their lives, but they're also out on the streets. Member Jacko was saying that all these people were exercising and dancing. A lot of them were really mose are people.
They're moving and they're enjoying the process of aging. And that's what one of our guides told us as well. It's not aging isn't looked at like it's looked at here in the US, which I think is so interesting.
So that's where we need to change our mindset. We get to grow old, we also have the luxury some people don't even get to have the luxury of exercising or finding that menopause specialist or finding a friend to talk to. So changing our mindset and trying on an
idea to see if it fits for you. So, for instance, I am a businesswoman and I like the idea of when I am postmenopausal, that my hormones will be more stable and I will know my hormones will be level, my brain will be level, and I will know who I am. You know, I do know who I am now, but like I do feel like the two days before my period, my brain is like a dodo bird. And I sometimes will tell my patients, listen if I cry today, it's not you. I don't even know. Like I'm happy.
I just feel a little funny today. And then of course then I bleed. But I share that because I have days where my brain is just dumb, and I'll be like what I am known for being smart? I want to be smart. How did my brain leave? Oh, my estrogen is leaving, And so I'm just I have to fight harder to be me? And so how do I support myself? And that's where I come in that
lifestyle modification. We have to support who we are. We do have to try harder, We have to make a conscious effort to move, We have to wait lit, I have to take omega threes. I have to increase my protein, which is like really ridiculously hard to have one grand of protein or ideal like my ideal body weight. Like, so I'm doing all these things to support me currently
and future me. So we don't want to look back and compare our collagen to twenty year old us, because that's just not no, We're going to look at us now. How do we support me?
Now?
How do I take care of future me?
Right?
And that's kind of that mindset I want to have.
I think along those lines. My final question is going to be when.
So, if you're a woman who's either on the cusp of menopause or going through it late forties, early fifties, what are your top tips, like how do we get ourselves into the best possible shape and mindset to handle everything that's going to come at us.
So it's a real big old lifestyle modification hall. We eat to nourish ourselves. We no longer starve ourselves to be skinny because that that game won't work in menopause. That is not going to fly. We have to move our bodies to keep what we have. So we maybe had great joints and we didn't have pain, but now I have to do mobility every day, like at least ten minutes of moving my body, like I practice getting to the ground. I have to use it to keep it.
So moving your body, nourishing your body, and the other thing is don't feel bad about resting, Like I don't want to heal never did resting, so it's really odd the things I say. But like, I want you to sleep more if you need to sleep. I want you to move every day, and it doesn't have to be perfect. I want you to nourish your body. And then the other thing. This is what I tell my patients. You know, once I get the whiff of perimenopause coming in, Hey, listen,
talk to your doctor. If your doctor doesn't give you a conversation, we need to find you a menopause specialist because you deserve to have a conversation. Every person deserves a conversation, and that really is like being your best advocate. So write down whatever symptoms you think you have in your phone because you're going to probably forget and then freeze up and maybe the brain fog from your perimenopause makes you completely forget, but like, make write it down.
Fight for future you, because you fight for all your friends, you fight for your family, but now you're gonna have to fight for you with the same vigor that you took care of everybody else in your life. Yes, to take care of you.
Speak to your doctor and ask for a menoc specialist and read Estrogen Matters. I'm totally Oh, it's a wonderful book. Yeah, I'm excited to order it.
And I'm definitely like because I just feel like I've experienced the difference having had no formone replacement. It's just it's so fabulous for me personally.
Now I'm a little less scared knowing that there's things that I can do for it and seeing how clear minded you are on the other side, not a crazy person like me.
I'm still a crazy person. Let's not be silly, and we all know it.
But that's okay.
You don't have to be scared. You can be like prepared, you know, you can be prepared and be like all right, I've got this. Yeah, yes I could do this. Yeah, you can be educated.
Tll everyone where we can follow you.
We are happy to help all of these people. But I want people to follow me on like TikTok or Instagram or Facebook and kind of like I talk about this every day because I want women to know because knowledge is power. And if you hear me talk about this over and over when it happens to you, you'll be like, oh what I know this?
Yeah, I know this, so nothing to be scared of, right, as long as you prepare.
I don't think so, I don't. I don't. I mean no, I will say, I can't sugarcoat ith. It does bring out some disease processes, like so you're more likely to have heart disease if you are not doing your cardiovascular health, if you're not doing hormones, if you're not taking your omega threes. But like we, we are meant to age, but the parts you choose to age is a difference.
Yeah, there are parts that you can't. I guess even with estrogen replacement, you can't always take away like hot flashes, and they suck, So I can't.
I can't see.
There's nothing you can do about how well you can. You can take estrogen and even the prosac, but okay, I don't think that it always works the same for everybody. I mean, I experience plenty of hot flash in my in my the last five years. And even with replacement, something you.
Got that you know, you so like you are being your own best advocate and and you know there are things that you could possibly do to maybe make you have less hot flashes, but it may not work. You know, sometimes things like not not having alcohol, not having spicy foods, avoiding hot climates. Uh, maybe that sauna triggers your hot flashes and you can't do the sauna.
Now, I can't do it to you better than That's another Yeah, is that from menopause? You've always so everything's hormonal menopause. I mean I think you get melasmas. Everything's hormonal, yes.
And then yeah, yeah, damn.
Control everything controls.
My God, talk about hormones.
But I think you guys are like a perfect example of every part of perimenopause menopause transition. Much like we're part of it and it's totally natural. It just is a little high maintenance.
Yeah yeah, but now kind of.
Divas, we kind of do all these extra things.
Well, we're grateful for people like you who show us the way, doctor Wendy.
Thank you so well.
Drag you, no, really, thank you. I've always wanted a best friend that would drag me. I've always wanted to be.
A little I need to be a little good. I know you will, I know you will. Thank you so much.
Well, thank you for having me. Ladies.
Okay, talk soon.
Great talking to you, Bye bye bye.
That was great. That was amazing.
Definitely great in terms of I feel like the range right like where you're at and where I'm at, and I'm hoping we have listeners that go they're even younger than you and older than me. And you know, I do definitely think that it's news to people that Perry menopause starts really early and the changes and some of the stuff you're feeling is about that, right, because I think back in the day, people thought, well, once you
hit menopause, that's when everything goes to shit. But it's you know, they're ten years before.
We have to change that thinking. Yea, nothing goes to show, certainly not anymore.
I'm telling you there's so many, like doctor Wendy saying, there's so many like things that can help and that have in fact helped me.
Yeah, amazing. So I'll be turning to you.
Yeah, I don't even know, because like I said, I don't get my periods.
I don't know.
But when I get the first half flash, I'm gonna be over here. Yeah, you're gonna tell me everything, you know. All right, guys, thank you for listening.
We love you.
Guys.
You leave us a review. Make sure to listen and tell your friends about it.
Yeah, and also leave us drop us. God, what does it slide into our DMS? Way too old for that. But tell us what you want to talk about, you know, I mean I.
We have a bunch of really good ones coming up.
Yeah, we have a bunch of great guests. But also, like you know, if you're listening, tell us what's on your mind and tell us what you'd like to hear about or hear us talk about.
Yeah, all right, thanks till next time. Bye bye,