Hey everyone.
Hi you guys. It's Jackie Goldschneider and Jenfestler.
And we are two Jersey Jays. And I love today's topic, so do I.
And it's really relevant.
Timely because we're going to talk about female friendships in middle age. And it's something that's so important to me because I rely on my female friend.
I feel like you get.
Something out of your friendships at this age that you can't find from your relationship with your husband, or your children or your parents.
Yes, I think that's true. I think you know we're we are different ages. I hate to admit not that far, not well, but I mean I think friendships for me, that the importance of friendship has changed, you know, since I was my daughter's age, even high school, right, It like it takes on a different I think friendships female wants to take on a little bit of a different meaning as you go through the different stages in life.
Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that you and I are in a very different situation then maybe like other people, because we not only have our real life friendships, but we have this show world of friendships. And we will not go into any specifics, of course you don't need to, but the dynamics of friendship in our work life is so different.
It is very different. It's very complicated, it's.
It's sad, it's it's sad. It can be great, but it's also it's so public.
Correct, that's the Yeah, that's the big difference. Yeah, I think that you know, we're going to get more into it. But my friend Marcia always says, friendships are shared experiences, Like you get close to people that you there's they're more than that, right, But a lot of times when you make new friends, it's because you guys are sharing something.
So in our case, we share this crazy journey that we're on with housewives and you know, the other women on the cast that we've become friends with with or maybe you're not friends with anymore. But it's so much about shared experience. But when it then it crosses the line right into like mutual respect, love, sharing more than just this crazy experience, but also your lives. But the show kind of, you know, it pushes it pushed us
all together. At least this has been my experience, and so you're forced to kind of, you know, get to a deep level with these women that maybe you didn't know before. So it's like these friendships that happen very quickly, and sometimes they also end very quickly.
Yeah, and you know, it's difficult when you're on a TV show together the fights often you kind of have to go into detail about what's driving you apart, and then a fight just turns so like big and toxic before you even know it. And then you have all of social media weighing in, which doesn't happen in real life.
You have people choosing sides and people saying that you're the worst or you're the best, and it's it's makes it really difficult to maintain a strong friendship now, not our show, but I have seen friendships on The Housewives that I thought were so strong, I mean.
Fall apart so badly of course, that I don't.
You know, I used to think that my housewife friendships were so important. But I'm I feel much closer to my real life friends, of course, just because I've seen too many friendships fall apart so easily over very little things.
I mean, I feel and I think you do too, but I feel very bonded to women on this cast. Not in the best way always, but because my oh friendships outside of the show not only can they not really understand being in it, but they don't want to and I don't want to burden them with talking about the show all the time. And you know, it's like.
Well, we're also trauma bonded.
Yes, you know, right right right, we are.
I mean there's something very specific and small about our world, and so it's no surprise that we have we share that bond, but and that we like to talk to each other about it. What's the problem, though, is when the relationship doesn't go beyond that. Like I've had some relationships on this show. I've had some that have transcended and have become very real to me, and I do love those relationships. But I'm talking about the ones that
were just based on the show. And I think in housewife World I've seen over the years, I mean, even before I was on it, I used to watch it.
A lot of people that leave the show they don't end up staying close with the people from the show.
Yeah, so listen, I don't know if you guys know this actually should probably mention it, but when Jackie and I started the show, we we're really committed to not discussing the ins and outs of the Housewives, and I think partially because there are so many podcasts that already do that, but also because we, you know, want to talk about the parts of our lives that are relevant and have nothing to do with it, like the fact that we're both at this point where we are quote
unquote middle aged, and so this is something that becomes, i don't know, more important less important as you get older. Friendships, I think we probably have a lot in common. We're going to talk about our feelings about our female friends. And also there are some differences.
So back when I was a journalist, which I still consider myself a journalist, but I used to write a column on motherhood for the newspaper every Saturday, and it was basically about being a young mom, a new mom, And something I had noticed is that a lot of new moms were having trouble making friends in their new suburban environment or even in like city, like it's hard
to make friends. And you know, I looked back at that when I was thinking about what we would talk about today, and I feel like it's a lot easier to make friends when you're a new mom.
Because you have those.
You have those classes, you have those Mommy and me and the baby classes, and everyone is in the same boat, and you just naturally become friends with the parents of your children's friends. You know.
It's also trauma bonding, like you mentioned, right, it's like the fear that goes along with being a new parent, right, But.
There's also that built in community. Yeah, that when you're middle aged and your kids are grown and you find yourself with a lot more time alone, it's it's almost like, well, where would I even begin to meet somebody?
I find that the friends that I have my closest friends in terms of like living here in Jersey, and are the friends that I made when my son was little, as opposed to my daughter who's only two years older, and I made friends with you know, her friend's parents, but different. I made this like very I was very lucky to meet this group of women when you know, my son was I don't know, we're at mommy and me,
so whatever, two three years old, and it stuck. So I think sometimes with friendships you make through the kids doesn't always stick because when the kids get older, maybe you don't have as much in common. I don't know if you've found that, you know I have, I certainly have those old friendships too that just didn't make it through for whatever reason. But uh yeah, that's that is probably the easiest way I've ever made friends besides maybe high school.
Right, So, but it makes you wonder. So you and I are both very lucky. Like I know that you have a lot of friends. I don't have quite as many, but I have about like six in my town that I consider super super close.
Friends, which needs more than that, right So I don't need more than that right now, I have more than.
My sorority sisters are still some of my best friends. And like, I have a lot of kids, and I have a great husband, so and I have my show friends.
So I'm like, I'm good, you know, But I know a lot of people.
Who struggle, especially if you move, like a lot of people downsize they move to a new area, you know. So I want to talk about not only how you can make new friends as a middle aged woman, but also why it's important, why it's important to have friends in your life at this age, what they can offer that's different, yeah than your other relationships.
Yeah, and I do think, as I mentioned a minute ago, that the priorities are different in terms of friendships. I think that it shifts from like, yeah, you just had babies and you need somebody to call to say, oh my god, you know he's not eating or she's I couldn't, she's swallowed up whatever it is, right, it's like a
lot of that. You're so it's such a you're in this whole new world, and so you bond so easily over that experience, and then that passes, and then all of a sudden you have teenagers and you could also bond of course, you know, over that. And then not for you, but for me, the kids leave. So it is did you lose a lot of friends when your kids left? No? I think at that point I was friends with people that where it wasn't just based on
the kids. I mean in high school. The kids now are driving and you know, they're barely talking to you anyway, so you have there's not as much to bond over, and it becomes about also, I think, reinventing yourself a little bit like Okay, so who am I now that I'm not this you know mother? And I'm obviously you're always a mother, But when the kids stop needing you
so much, right, what does that look like? So? Now what does my life look like and it doesn't necessarily include these women or these men who you relied so completely on when the kids were younger to you know, just validate you.
And right, did you find that some of those women you didn't have anything in common with once you're kids were out of the picture.
Yes? I did still women that I you know, like and care about, but we just didn't share as much and have as much to talk about.
Right, So yeah, I mean middle age is you know, it just creeps up on you and one day you find yourself looking in the mirror and you're like, wow, those lines just don't stop coming as much as you try to fight them, and you see.
The grays and you feel your age.
I remember one time I was with a friend in a car and we saw this woman and she was a counselor at a camp where it was when my kids were younger, and I said, I can't tell if she's old or young. She was one of those people that could have been like thirty or could have been like sixty. And my friend said, she's old. Look at
her knees. And I never forgot that because sometimes I'll look at my knees and I'll be like I'm not fooling anyone because no matter how much botox I get, other parts of me will give it away.
Oh, I mean, if we're going to go there, my knees are not the knees of a fifty six soon to be fifty six year old, but there the knees of been ninety five Jackie. I am not this is yes, this is not me just being so. I don't know what kind of weight gain, weight loss pull at no exercise path I've been on, but these knees of mine. And I had a surgery that was like for my leg, didn't you?
Yeah, how'd that go?
I know we're getting a little off. Somber Jen had a surgery. She never liked to show her her leg.
I still don't because the surgery that I had was sort of like a body lift and it only lifts like mid thigh up, so I would say, and the doctor told me that. So it really was like, now I still don't want to wear shorts. What's the difference. My knees are hanging to my ankles? You know, it is what it is, but that you can also bomb. I feel like you bond sometimes with women. So what I'm.
Saying is like. The point is that, like you suddenly wake up and you're like, I am not young anymore, and like the things that used to bond you to other young moms are gone, and slowly every day they disappeared. There's another kid leaving for college, someone else, doesn't you feel you know, we've talked about this before about the invisibility of middle aged women and how you know you're not considered traditionally like sexy anymore, and that part of
you is gone. Your children are grown, so the motherhood part of you. You know, you're always a mom, but that's gone. That being needed is gone. You know, you've really settled into your marriage and like a lot of what made you feel useful as a younger woman is gone. And it's not gone, it just changes very drastically. And I think again with shared experience. That's why female friendship at this age for me, is so important, because you
don't just have to hold those feelings inside. You can be with other people who are going through them at the same time.
I one hundred percent agree. I will tell you that at yes, at your age, I felt exactly the same way, and at almost fifty six. There are times though where I really don't want new friends. I don't want more friends. I don't I find that people in general get on my nerves. So I mean it's like to make a new friends and bring you know, I'm a little more closed off, and I if I talk to my mom, who is eighty two, she'll say, like, I hate people. I love dogs, and that's it. But I have these
relationships and I can't imagine my life without them. Do I want more? I don't know. I don't know. I'm pretty good like and I don't have that.
I used to have so.
Many friends, and you almost like what I felt like when I was younger. I gathered friends, you know, like in high school, you just you want to be popular. And I don't know. It's embarrassing to admit that that would still have been going on for me as I got older. But so many people, right, so many friends,
so many parties. I just don't want that. I just want meaningful friendships now, and I want them to be real and I want to be able to share real experiences and you know, the difficulties of my life and not paint this picture of how my life is perfect. And let's talk about how your life is perfect.
And you know, it's funny that you say that about high school because one of the tips that the therapist back then, who I interviewed for this for the article, one of the tips that she gave me is not to carry old wounds with you into new relationships. And it struck me because I had a very very hard time in high school. And I write about this a lot in my book, but I moved when during my freshman year of high school, and I have a brother.
He's disabled. He was held back a year. He's a year older than me, so we came in the same age. Everyone assumed we were twins and I was overweight. It was a brand new school. Everyone already had their friends, and I was. I mean, I just had the hardest, hardest time. And not only was I completely ignored, but people were very vicious to my brother, and I just was not only like an outcast, but I was also like busting up everyone's good time every time they wanted
to make my brother do something stupid. It was just a shit show beginning to end, and I couldn't wait to get out of there. But I carried those wounds with me for a long time, and I have absolutely no problem admitting that I had, that I've struggled with mental issues and that a lot of therapy has gotten me through tons of them. But I have no shame in admitting any of this. So if any of you want to come after me, feel free. It doesn't bother me.
I don't think anyone's coming out to you.
But the issue was that I carried that with me and when I got to when I moved from the city into the suburbs, my default was to assume that everybody already had people they liked and no one needed me to be their friend, and that if they were being nice to me, it was because they just were being nice, and that nobody was really interested. And it held me back, you know, And until I could let go of all of that, I really wasn't able to fully immerse myself in friendships that felt even an equal.
It's only been the last really like the last few years, that I've come out of that and really been like, no, I'm so valuable to these relationships and like they love me as much as I love them. It always felt one sided to me. So I think it's really important. I think that that holds not whether you're a new mom or whether you're a middle aged woman. You cannot carry your past into your present because it will hold you back.
Well, you know, I also had a difficult childhood, and I think that I made friends I owas was the good time girl, right. I was also overweight until I was I don't know, in my late twenties. I was very heavy and ill up and down whatever. And I never had a boyfriend, which is, you know, which I wanted so desperately. But I always had friends around me, and I was always like the funny one and the
crazy one. And I think that was probably partially because I just needed validation so badly outside of what was happening at home. And I also went to a performing arts high school, so a lot of that traditional you know, the peer pressures and the jocks versus the nerds. Like we were all nerds. We were all like theater nerds, music nerds, dancing nerds. So it was way easier. So I actually have my three very best friends from high school.
We meet once a year because I went it was in Texas, so I'm actually going to see the next month.
We do it.
Yeah, it's great. But so I think that like I've always been somebody that had an easy time meeting people and making friendships, but they weren't. They haven't always been as satisfying. Sometimes I make I get, you know, there's a difference between like gathering people and calling them friends and actually have having real connections, which is what I
want now, that's all I want. I don't need to have, you know, go to a million different birthday parties and you know that sort of childish attitude of wanting to have so many I just need, especially now, not as many. And the ones that really make me laugh, the ones that I feel like I can be real with that don't judge me, And the ones that are truly about love. I love you, you love me. We want the best for each other.
Right. So, something that I've noticed is that the my stronger friendships are the ones that don't rely on being couple friends. Because when you rely on being couple friends, I have to wait for Evan to want to make plans. So Evan is not nearly as social as I am, right right, I love being with my friends. Yeah, I love going to dinners and going out. And he's very very content, I mean understandably, he's got three teenage boys who love to be around him, and that's his built
in friend group. So he's got a few of his own friends. But I find that when we need to go to like dinner together in order for me to be with a woman, he it's more difficult because I mean, I'm relying on him and my conversations have to include him, you.
Know, and I adore events obviously obviously, but.
You know, then I have to wait for him to find a date when he can make a plan.
Well, I mean, Jeff's friends are primarily completely because they're the men that I are involved with, the women that I'm friends with, right, So he's I.
Mean, so his friends are your friend's husbands.
Yes, Well, let me just say this. So he has a whole life in terms of like his work and those circles that he's in, and I choose to know nothing about it because I find his whole whatever he's doing for a living is just bores me to no end. So, like, but I know that he has like this network of people, and he works in this you know, big office, and he has so he does have colleagues, and he does have friends from work. He certainly does, but not people that we see on a regular right, or that he's
like not going out to bars with right. So, so the friends that we socialize with, he's made friends with the husband's you know, through me. So, but it's not Yeah, it's not always like Jeff doesn't always sync up with the guy like I am syncing up with the girl. It's not always like that. It's like a little it's not the same dynamic. Right. It's me and whatever friend I have being alone together. It's a different thing.
Right, let me ask you.
So there are times when I will text with a friend and even a very close friend, and we try to see each other, and it just you know, my kids are still very needy. None of them drive you yet they're all you know. I'm still living like sort of, I'm like caught between young mom life and older mom life.
Ye.
And I'm still so busy, and I find it really hard to get together with my friends. And I wonder when when my kids do leave and I do have all that time, am I gonna want to be with friends all the time? Or do you find yourself just cherishing alone time?
Uh? I always like being alone. I just always have. I I It's funny because people say, like when the kids leave, they become so bored. I have this one friend, Bonnie in particular, who's always like calling me, I'm bored.
What are you doing.
I'm like, well, I'm not buny, I know, right, So I'm like, well, I'm not bored actually, and I'm alone and I don't want to hang out with you.
Oh that's something.
It has been really great also about when you get older, like I have friends, will you know you want to do this? And I go nope, And I don't even have to give an excuse. I just don't want to No, I don't want to go. I don't want to meet you.
Get it better at that.
I'm not bad, I'm not saying.
And it's something.
It's not an insult to whomever. It's just I don't want to go out and hang out and chit chat right now. I want to be alone. But wait, what was the question you?
Like, like, do you find yourself now that you have more time where you're less tied to doing things for other people? Do you find yourself wanting to do things for yourself or do you find yourself wanting to spend that time with friends?
Depends on the day. I mean, I again, because of also what we what we do our work. I think it's we're on a lot of the time, right, So I like the decompressed time, and I do again, I feel very blessed to have these really close, wonderful friendships. But I don't need to be in a constant you know, let's go to lunch, let's get together. It happens naturally. When it happens, it's great. But I'm not you know, No, I can be in my house doing my thing, you know a lot.
Yeah. Do you find that your your relationships with your children have become more friend or do you And of course I kill I call my kids my best friends, but obviously I'm not going to talk to them like I do my best friends.
Right.
Do you find that your relationship takes on more of a friend type of relationship or are you still just mom?
I mean that's a whole other episode, right, But I've I would tell you they're never really, it's not the same. It's not the same as having a friend. It's just I'm it's you. No, Yes, of course they're like friends now that they're older and we can like enjoy the same things and you know, enjoy the same shows and hang out, but there's always going to be that like she's my annoying and mom and like I'm always like watching and thinking my head is spinning with if they
did this, what does that mean? If she unhappy? Now? Is that what? Like, it's always going to be. Yeah, that's attachment to them that is not as free, right. And Plus with with actual friends, you could badmouth your kids, so which is nice, you'll do that to their face.
So one of the things, so I did some some research for this because I felt like, of course we're going to talk about how to make new friends in middle age. I got to give some tips, right, So when you're a new mom, they'd say, go join the mommy and me classes, and you know, it's sort of like dating, and it still is when you're in middle age. It's like you don't have those natural mommy and me classes. One of the tips was to make a new hobby and find a class that revolves around that hobby.
People always give that advice to people that are looking for that are that are dating, right, like meet someone at a pottery class. That never worked for me, probably because I don't I don't really have them any hobbies, per se anyway or things that I'm so I was never like, yeah, I want to go learn to cook or I want to go to a sidebar.
What what happened to your guitar lessons? Are you still doing that?
Well?
I wrote a song recently, No you did it, Yes I did. But when I talk about piano accompaniment, yes, we'll talk about it after Yes, that's that's also for another day. Amazing, thank you.
So this is the thing, so it said, like find an art class or a yoga class or something. It is hard in middle age and I'm starting to feel this when like you're like, I want to It sounds good.
In theory, but everything is a little more exhausting.
Well okay, so now yes, right, So, like even thinking about what kind of class you'd want to be in, finding the class, signing up for the class, actually going to the class, and sticking with the class are it feels sometimes like a lot.
I mean, I have more time to do that kind of thing, and I don't but than you do. But I think it's also a matter of like you're in a class and it's almost it probably feels like because again I don't do a lot of classes per se, but it's almost like you're trying to pick someone up. I mean, there's so much that goes along with that, right, Like do I ask her for her number? Is she
going to think I'm weird? I don't want to come on too strong all of that, so, but I will say I have felt like that, but now that I'm older, I don't anymore. I find that I I don't care like I bond with people way more easily.
Now.
You're very good.
You're a natural bonder, like you naturally make people feel drawn to you. Well, is what I see.
Okay, So I've thought a lot about that because I do. People do say that to me, and I think it's because I'm to a fault. My mother would tell you, but I'm an open book and I will tell you what's really going on with me very easily. I sometimes regret doing it right if you do that with the
wrong people. But when you open yourself up and you're willing to talk about your crap and your struggles and all the ways in which you know you're not perfect and you I have found my whole life that other people will do the same.
Right.
So if I'm going to be open with you and tell you the reality of me. It always seems to come back to me right, and that just starts you start to bond with people over that, like not I'm not I don't. I probably have, but I try not to have any pretense about me, like this is here who I am. I'm also very self deprecating and this is what's going on with me. I'm not saying I can only bond with people over you know, difficulties and tragedies.
But I think that when you're really like honest and open, it's way easier to meet people.
Back to what you said about like being awkward and asking for Yeah, so that was another thing. It's like you have to and it's not as awkward as you think, because if you and I are in this situation where we're like finding it difficult to well, you know, you have all your friends, but like in general, I think a lot of middle aged women find themselves a little bit lonely. And I don't think that there's anything wrong with asking another woman if.
They maybe want to get lunch one hundred percent.
I mean I could not agree with that more. The thing is, and I always I used to say this when I was a when I was a matchmaker, like there's not you don't there's not that much at stake, Like all you can do is get rejected. It doesn't who cares. Like it's a numbers game, right, And if you don't click with one woman and you go to lunch and it's just hideous and it's so boring, you move on. I mean, if you're trying to make friends, don't get you can't get too deep about it, right,
and it's all like everything else. I feel like it takes a certain amount Yes, you have to like it takes a certain amount of energy. Hi. You know, some think, oh, yeah, by the way, you know, we should get together. I would love to like have whatever it is. That's kind of hard to do, but then you get more practice.
I've exchanged numbers and said let's get together with many people over the past few years, and I've probably reached out to about two percent of them. I don't know, There's just something in me. Sometimes I just don't feel like it would really be that creative a fit. Other times I just don't want to bother, you know, But how do you feel? I'm curious because some of those women have had been very different in age than me.
And I wonder sometimes what's your take on being friends with somebody who's a lot younger than you.
I mean, honestly, it has besides the show, and I mean, you know what I'm talking about, it doesn't happen that often, you know, I don't. I think most of my and you and I are not far apart in age, right, So that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about like, no, I'm.
Talking about like I'm in my I'm turning forty eight in two months, and I'm thinking of like people in their early thirties.
I just that just hasn't been my path. So, I mean I have relationships with like, for instance, some of the women who I have, who I've worked with through the show, whether they are, for instance, a makeup person. Okay, so the woman who does my makeup, who is just beyond my grace. It's like the most beautiful, the most beautiful in face I know. But she's also we just clicked and why old she? I mean she has just had a baby, so thirty something. I mean, it's a
big differences. It's twenty you know, I'm fifty six. So but we were together so much, you know, and working together and I just fell madly in love. And you know, we still don't we're not going out as couples, but I have this real love for her and this we have this banter and it's just it's so great.
When you see each other or do you talk on the phone.
We talk, I mean, not as much. She's obviously very busy now that she's makeup artists to the stars, but like you know, it's just this special bond that we have where I feel like I could tell her anything, and so that doesn't happen that often, I think with you know, although you know what, I'm gonna give it one more caveat. I've met a lot of the guys
that I know. They're now a lot of the gay guys that I have become friends with that I've worked with because of the show, and I become they're they're younger, right, you two. You know this, and yeah, because they work at NBC and they were up and coming. Yes, but they're also I made a lot of younger friends, a lot of these, a lot of gay guys, and like really close friendships where I'm talking to them all the time.
So you know what, I change it all. I I let me go back, I do have friends, they're younger, not as many women as men for whatever reason.
Yeah, I get that, but so yeah, so it is okay to ask someone for their phone number and then to reach out. And to that point, I feel like with the friends that you already have.
Those friendships.
And I've known this from personal experience. Yeah, there's always those memes about like you're my friend no matter how much time has passed between us talking. We can act like it's you know, like no time has passed in theory, great, but you really have.
To nurture your friendships if you want them to stay strong. I have lost friends over not nurturing friendships. I think that you're right, but I also think like I have my two best college friends who I'm actually going to see in September, and I don't talk to them every day. I don't talk to them every month, but when we're together, it's like we just exactly like where we left off. For whatever reason, it just I'll tell them anything. I just it's not a every day you know, we're not
going through the same things. Ones in California, ones in Philly and different lives, you know, so it's not we don't nurture those as much as maybe we should or I wish we could. But I have had friendships that have faded because, yeah, I wasn't putting the energy into them, right.
I think maybe the friendships that date back further have a little more leeway.
Yeah, maybe not talk is off egg, right, I have the same.
I try to see my college friends pretty often, but I think more of the friendships of my town. Yeah, if you let them getty, if them straight away from you, they Maybe that's true. Maybe because the friendships you make when you're a little younger, you're sharing something that you're never going to go through again, high school, college, you know. It's like, yeah, I hope that my daughter has has those. She's made some really amazing friendships in college, and she
had some wonderful friends in high school. But it's such a difficult time right when you're young and you're struggling, you don't know who you are, and there's so much nonsense. But I think you're very lucky if you carry friendships, specifically from high school and really into adulthood.
I don't think it always happens. I hope that my daughter has and will can as a random question anything.
Do you find that friends who have different political leanings than you, without going into any specifics, do you find yourself less drawn to being their friend?
So I lost one of my best friends also who's also a family member, but like best friends, like my person, one of the people that we stopped speaking for like a year and a half over politics. It sucked and it's such a hard time right now. It is so hard. So I will tell you that it's happened to me. Thank god we got back and we have very strict boundaries now and now we're, you know, closer than ever. We will not discuss politics, although mine are changing these days.
A lot of people are yes.
So and now when I meet people, I don't, I don't think I bond maybe what do you think? You know?
I went out to dinner with five girlfriends maybe like a few weeks ago, and it turned to politics, and three of us were on one side and two were on the other. And it actually got a.
Little bit he did I know, It really.
Did, and it got uncomfortable, It got a little heated. We were all trying to convince each other that they were.
Wrong, and so sad. That's just the way it work.
We stopped, we stopped talking about it because it just wasn't it wasn't productive. Yeah. Yeah, the world sucks right now.
You think it's really it's just a scary place to be.
It is, especially you know, I know Jews are very small part of the population, but it's scary as a Jewish person.
Well, I will tell you that. You know, I've now been to a lot of fundraisers events and I've found myself making friends because of that common.
Yeah, that's another common job, yes.
Right, that kind of trauma bonding and like new friends, people that are doing things in support of Israel and that I'm connecting to and starting to become friends with, which is nice.
Yeah, And that's one thing. It's like whether you're famous, so you're not famous, you're wealthy, poor, no matter what. If you're like a Jewish person right now, a Jewish woman with children that you worry about all these things, you have that shared connection. It doesn't matter where you are in life. It's like, yeah, but we're both sharing this and the pain that like people are going through and all the anti Semitism in the country right now.
And you know, I even had to change my last name on my Uber account and like, no, not saying anything about Uber, but like, I'm not going to get in a car with a random person with the last named Gultchenader on their screen and not know, because there's just so much hate out there right now, you know, and the fact that I have to do that in twenty twenty four it's horrific.
Yeah, I know. I tell my son to put a star of David inside his shirt when he's walking in certain areas, and it's just which is all wrong anyway?
Anyway, So here's another really interesting one. So this article gave another tip.
To maybe reach out to people who you.
Were once friends with, and that one really me thinking, because I have many people in my life who I was once friends with. I don't have I mean, aside from on TV, I really don't have any friendships that have fallen apart because of a big old fight. They really, I really don't. My sister is the one contentious, like non existent relationship in my life, and other than that, friendships have mostly just faded. Yeah.
I would say that that's mainly true for me. One friendship in particular that was I was so close to this woman for so many, many, many many years and I think that we got to a point where we just weren't making each other happy, we weren't bringing each other joy, like, we were just at different ends of whatever spectrum, and it just stopped working. And it was
years and years and years of friendship. And I'll always wish her well and I'll always have love in my heart for her and her family, but it just wasn't working, you know. And I don't know how to exactly describe that, but I think we mutually we both view out that also. Yeah, I think we both just knew it, and we knew that we were maybe happier unfortunately without each other than we were, you know together.
Well you know, so, but that tip got me thinking, like, there are certain people in my life that I do sort of miss, you know, but then there's others that we we sort of drifted because it wasn't right anymore. But the idea of that that you can get something back that you sort of miss, it got me thinking about like whether or not that's a good idea, you know.
So what the tip said was to think about, first of all, why the friendship faded, right, just go and reach out, you know, So if it faded because you guys were just two different people that didn't enjoy each other anymore. Then, like, maybe that's one that you leave alone. But I think that this could be a really beautiful thing. I think it could be a great way to bring
a relationship back into your life that you miss. Right, So it's said to think about whether that relationship would enhance your life at this stage, and then maybe send a simple message like hey, you popped into my head, was thinking of you. How are you right? And you can you know, you know see the vibe you get back and you sort of feed off of that, you know.
I think so much about this as you're talking, is just about courage, right, It's about like the same thing I guess with you know, meeting someone romantically. It's like you have to get past the fear of rejection. It's okay, like you may get rejected. And so what I think it's easier.
With friends than with relationship because, you know, relationship you're looking for the one. You know, a friend could be one of many. Yeah, you know, there's a lot less pressure for that person to be absolutely perfect for you, right, they just have to be somebody who enhances your life. That's what I want at this age. I want relationships that are fun, that are mutual, and that enhanced my life. Yeah,
I don't, I don't know. I let every day I'm less and less inclined to have anything toxic in my life. And I know, obviously you shouldn't want toxic in your life, but sometimes the toxic ones are the most exciting. Yeah, right, and I just don't find myself drawn to that.
Well how about this?
How about you know at certain ages, Like now, it's funny because we just had a wedding this past weekend. So one of my friend's kids got married. Beautiful wedding, by the way, shout out to Joe Weinstein, but anyway, and her gorgeous daughter Carly. But anyway, how weird was it?
So we're at this amazing wedding, and there are so many quote unquote kids there, right, these two that got married, they have a ton of friends, and so the place is packed with I guess late twenty somethings, thirty somethings,
and then we're the adult table. So now I'm with my friends at this adult table, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but like, we don't want to be as close to the band, like because and also like then there's so they have this after party, right and going in we're all like, oh my god, yes, and we're gonna stay for the after party and we're gonna get you know, fucked up, and we're gonna by about I don't know, eleven thirty. I think all of us were like, Okay, the cake is cut, love you, most
beautiful event ever got to go. So but the things that we enjoy now doing.
Together, they're different. They're different. It is, it's very different.
It's like, you know, even I mean, it's so cliche, right, but like the whole early bird special thing. I love an early bird.
Say I don't like to eat early.
Yeah, you're not there yet.
Well it's not only that that's left over from my eating disorder too.
I had a lot of like rules, and some of them revolved around timing.
It's a whole other episode.
But I'm very uncomfortable eating dinner too early.
Really, Yeah, I have this fear. This is delving into a whole another thing.
But like I have this fear sometimes then I'm gonna eat my full dinner and then before I go to sleep, I'm still going to be hungry, and then I'm gonna have to eat too much.
I get it.
It's all just shit in my head.
Of course, when I go out to dinner early.
I managed just fine.
Yeah, but.
I always prefer to eat more like towards the later part.
You know. I see also, like so many of the women, especially on the show, and they are bonded also because they love to go out. And I don't think it's just because their housewives. They really enjoy just going out, still going to I don't know, clubs or restaurants that are hot and in that and yeah, I'm getting to that stage now where I'd rather hang out and at home.
Like so I'm gonna have I'm gonna meet my friends in Maryland, my three best friends from high school, and maybe we'll go out one night, but the rest of it's going to be getting up in the morning. My friend is this unbelievable house on the water. It's gorgeous, and drinking coffee and making breakfast, and maybe we'll go out. We'll shop for a little while and then come back and like get right back into sweats and you know, start to wine at four o'clock.
And I'll tell you a funny story. Yeah, this is sort of us topic.
So I used to go every before COVID, me and my friends from college. There was four of us. We used to do a few overnights every year, and one of them was always around the time of my birthday. We used to go and do a night in the city. And I loved to go out like late, like dancing, having fun, so we would always book a really fun
restaurant go out really late. But anyway, when I got on the show and I was introduced to the whole world of like all these beauty hacks and everything right, and I had like, so I got my hair done, which I never used to do. I really was very simple before this show. And then so I think like the second the second year is on the show. I got my hair done. We went into the city and we went out, and then we all got back to the room and it was like three in the morning.
We were all sitting on the bed talking and just naturally I started unclipping some of the hair and my friends their faces just dropped and I was like, what's wrong, And they were like, what's going on right now?
What are you taking out of your head? Like it was like so bizarre to that.
It was really funny. I always think of that moment. But anyway, Yeah, I see, like when I'm with friends now and I'm out and one of them is like, I'm really tired, I want to go home. Sometimes I'm like, yes, thank you God. Yeah.
I mean, it just changes changes what you're interested in, you know, it's just thinking. I'm I feel like I always feel like this when we're doing the pop but like I'm just always my thoughts start coming and I don't know if they're actually I'm sorry, they're not coming in an organized fashion. But so, you know, having like a younger friend or friend that's a lot older, I think. So there's that, right, Your pace is different as you
get older. You know, when you're younger, even in my thirties and forties, I wanted to still like it was Thursday night and all the women in my town were going out and hanging out and having birthdays and up until whenever. And I don't have the stamina for that anymore.
But I think also a lot of it has been about, you know, the stuff that was you were scared of when you were younger, or that was bothering you, or whether it was your kids, you know, going through what they were going through and not getting invited to another kid's birthday. That stuff has become irrelevant. But now it's more about like the stuff that's going on with your older kids and being able to relate to that to a certain extent. So you know, I don't know like
moving both of my kids. Now my daughter's about to move into New York City, but like what is that? Like that letting go and I'm nervous about it, and you know, where did your daughter find an apartment? And who's And then it's about, you know, the job, and my kid is loving his job or hating her job, and what how about how did your kid deal with that?
So it's there's there are different things that you're actually that are your priorities and that you're focused on, not just with your kids, right, but there's it's harder to talk to someone who's who's much younger, Yeah, who's the same phase of life?
Are most of your friends part of a friend group? Because I find there's a lot of strife over the friend group.
So when I was younger, I used to have that not as much.
When I moved to my town, I felt like everyone was part of a group and now and rightfully so, a lot of people in my town were grouped up. And now the women that are my age, that's been replaced by the younger women who have come in.
And there happens.
But the groups that were around when when I was in my early thirties, those groups have largely there's still relationships intact in there and people are still the great groups. The host completely dismantled. Absolutely, everyone's friends are one hundred and many different people. Yeah, and that's sort of been a relief to me because my my five six close friends that I've alluded to, most of them are not friends with each other in that way. So I've never
really had that group mentality. Was in a sorority in college, but other than that, I've never had like the group experience.
You know.
There was so much pressure.
Again, like I don't know, third and forties in terms of like birthdays, right, So if it was somebody's birthday, it was and someone didn't get invited, it was so childish, right, But there were so many hurt feelings and thoughts about who to invite and what that meant. And it just seems so now. It was so it was so juvenile. So who anyone who's listening, who is not? You know, who goes, who's way younger than we are. Just that
gets better. But so that felt really important, like the groups, like you know what groups you were in and what you were getting invited to and what Now it all means a whole lot of nothing. And if I had only known then what I know now.
I find that the group thing is almost dangerous because if two people have a rift, it spills out onto.
Everybody, you know, I mean, welcome to the housewives in New Jersey. I mean, well, yeah, housewives in general. And speaking of housewives, we're not going to talk about our show. But like I just wonder if, like, what do you think do you think that like if New Jersey ended, would not even New Jersey.
But like, when someone leaves a show, I see, it doesn't seem to me like they stay close with the rest of the people on their cast.
I don't know. I mean, I don't know most of these women. But what I would assume that if you were bonded mainly because you were on the same show and going through the same experiences, that goes away. What do you have left?
Right?
So and I think that's probably Yeah, I think that's probably true in most cases because that's what you know, that is the priority, right, And I don't feel that way with the cast. I've obviously not I don't mean this, I don't mean the whole cast. But you and I have shared a lot more than what is what's going on on the show. It's not where our.
Friendship has transcended, right, That is not happened for the large part with this show. For me, it's usually based on like the shared experience of the show. But I have a few relationships that have transcended that.
Yeah, yeah, you know, I think I feel like, you know, that's when so something happens for instance, for instance Aiden, so my son, yes listening and Jackie's son just had a second surgery a sports injury.
One year and it's it's been very very hard for me.
Yeah, and you know, so talking about me, I mean, but as a mom watching your child suffer for the second time, right in a one year period, to have to go through not only a horrific surgery, but a really bad recovery where they're taken away from like all the social things that they were doing in the.
Sports things they were doing.
It's been really difficult to watch as them.
All and being able for like you and I just to talk about it, and you're sharing with me, like what's real in your life and your struggles in the summer has not been your favorite summer. You've had a lot of stuff going on, and like, so now we're talking about stuff that's not just oh you in a circumstance. Yeah, but I do have that with other cast members. But I don't I don't know if that's the norm or not. I mean this, listen, we're not gonna again, We're not.
We're trying not to talk too much about the show, but it takes over your life in this way that it feels like, you know, it's so it's it becomes like everything. So yes, you become very bonded to everyone on the show, and then if the show goes away, what are you left with? You know, in my mind, you and I have were.
I'm not worried about us.
Yeah, but you know so, but that's probably you know, that probably translates so when none of the words, when little the Little Kid stage is over, if that's all you shared, yeah, there's not much left, you know, it's.
Just thinking of like past housewives and like you know, you see them reconnect like a one off on Instagram, but like really they're estranged from like most of the people, Like look at Bethany, right, or look at like Lisa vander Pum. Yeah, you look at all the old OC housewives.
I mean that was the thing.
That's also the thing is I don't like I look at a vicky and tamer thing, right, and it seemed like they were just they had way so past. Yes, the housewives world, right, they were like sisters. But listen, I mean it could happen. I guess it could happen to anyone, but the fact that they're not anymore.
Right, I guess anyone could fall apart.
I feel like we haven't given a lot of tips, and I don't know. I just want to say I feel sort of qualified because I do have an easy time making friends. I feel sort of qualified to give some advice. And I touched on it a little while ago. But like you have to be brave, yes, and you have.
To and on on that note, like brave, we mean like don't be embarrassed to ask someone for their number and to reach out and suggest lunch, right, absolutely, and approach it. It's not that deep, right, Like, let's say that I meet you, I think that we're connecting. You don't I reach out, You make up an excuse next, as opposed to taking it in and personalizing on it. And that's where it reminds me of maybe dating, right,
like what's wrong with me? You're going to click with people you click with, and you're not going to with the people that you don't. Period, end of story. But also my suggestion would be to be open and honest in terms of like what's going on with your life. I've never I don't. I've never bonded with anybody over like, oh yes, had my kids are this old?
Yeah, they're so great. Everybody you don't.
Have to have. I'm not saying in order to be my friend, you have to be going through horrible things, but like as opposed to oh yeah, my husband, oh my god, yes, we're so great, and my kids and they are so great, and I just bought a new house and it's so great and my like actually, you know, opening up and talking about some things and being real
with someone. At least my experience has been that when I've done that, it comes back to me and you know you bond in this way that you wouldn't if you're just putting on a show.
Do you feel like that a hundred percent?
Yeah.
You know, it's not always into It's not always easy to do because you don't know how much to reveal to a new friend. But I find that I connect with people because I'm not afraid to like open myself up.
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that and like and also, like you said, it's not so deep.
I mean I had lunch with a friend who we actually followed through on the.
Hey, you want to have lunch one day.
We weren't close, we had lunch and it was lovely, But I don't think any of us felt like it was something that we needed to do again anytime soon. We really liked each other, but not there just was missing that like really deep connection. We were hugh where we were like we need to keep talking. I have so much more to say, right, you know, But it wasn't a waste, Like I really liked her and we had a nice time, So be brave. What about like signing up for new classes and hobbies?
I just I said, I haven't done. I can't recommend that because I just don't do it. I like, I haven't really done. I'm trying to think if I've ever met any one. I mean, besides, like the kids, it's always the beginning. It was always the kids, right, or it was you know, college or high school. It was just circumstance.
I don't well, I don't do yoga, but my friends who have started yoga classes, pilates classes.
They seem to have met a lot of people. Actually, you know something that is very true. I have a dear friend who's a yoga instructor, and I have a dear friend who's a pilates instructor, and they are so much of their world has become and they become they all become friends with each other, and they're going out to happy hours or to you know, yeah whatever it is, and going to different events. So, yes, you're right, even.
Though definitely I've never been consistent. Yeah pickable, Yeah, pattable.
But again, just like I guess it.
Like anything else in life, it's just attitude.
It's like, you know, yeah, and uh, I love to see anywhere. Tips, let's see, get offline, go outside, get people in real life. Don't just be online. You know, sometimes my friends will ask me. They'll see a famous person and be like, are you friends with them? And like once in a while, I'll have an online relationship with them and I'm like, yeah, I'm friends with them.
And then I'm like I throw that word around really easily, where like I don't know the name of this person's like dog, right, I don't know anything about them, right, I'm calling them my friend. And I think the online world makes you think that you have relationships that are close that are definitely not close. And I just I think it's really dangerous when you start replacing real friendships with just online interactions.
I agree with that. Yeah, and I think that boils over right, like like the online thing. That's again that's a whole other thing episode. But you know, we haven't even we haven't really touched on how it feels to lose a friend. And again I keep saying this, maybe for another episode, but like that morning period, how that feels, How you know that affects because I see what's happened to me, but friends of mine who have stopped being friends,
and how it preoccupies them both. Let's say if I'm friends with them both and it's all they really can talk about and it becomes all consuming and really just this this very difficult loss, right, different than I guess a romantic partner, but very painful.
Nonetheless, Yeah, so it's hard.
It's hard to lose a friend, and I mean it's it's even more difficult when it happens on a show because there are there's so many forces and there's so many other voices weighing in, weighing in on everything, and it's like it's not easy to just reconcile because number one, if you're going to reconcile, like your producers want you to save it for the cameras, but also like there's a lot of other factors like if you go to become friends with this person again, like are other people
going to have a problem with it? And what's going to happen with that? And are you going to be fighting with other people about it. So it's it's so weeded and so difficult. I don't even think about it.
At this point in my life. What I want is people around me that I spend time with, who I truly, honestly, earnestly love who I know, love me, who I can be myself with without feeling judged and The truth is, I don't think it's it's those are the kind of relationships, right that you want to nurture. And you can make a lot of friends, but maybe the trick is to figure out which of those are meaningful and that you
want to really hold on to. You know, I think I've spent a lot of time, you know, being quote unquote friends with people that we really didn't have that much in common and you know, didn't have that much to say to each other.
So narrow down your circle, I think, to people who really are meaningful to you. But also there's nothing wrong in middle age with expanding.
Them yeah yeah, just yeah, yeah yeah, and being open, not being afraid. We are so good at this, Jack, I mean, I don't know why we don't have a doctor title. This is not the Jersey Jays. We are doctor John doctor right, the doctor. Technically I have a doctor. It's yours doctor. I mean I have a doctor as well. But anyway, are you a therapy You said, what?
No, no, no, I have a doctor. You have a doctorate.
I know I don't have a doctorate.
I thought you said.
I thought you were said like your.
Therapist, I have a door, said I have a doctor. Start a doctor right exactly.
No, I do not have a doctorate.
Definitely have a doctor. Yes, well I love this, I do, really do.
I do too, and I would want to make a new friend whoever's listening, Like we don't get as much. I want more, like not just feedback, but ideas or I didn't like when you said this, or we liked when you said or this really resonated with me. You know, if you guys want to d m us at any point. We both have our own personal instagrams. And then the Jersey Jays when we talked about family estrangements, you did.
Yeah, I got a lot people really could relate to that, which almost made me sad. But yeah, definitely let us and also like what you if there's stuff that you want us to talk about or that you think would be an interesting topic.
I age a is hard, guys.
I mean like even looking at myself in the zoom right now, like I know, notice the things that are making me older. No, I still feel beautiful, I do, but I.
Need to think I'm doing I'm doing well. You look for my age, but I don't always feel I certainly don't always feel beautiful, but.
I do notice my age all the time. Yeah, it's on your mind. And what age, middle age is loaded, it's different.
It's hard, I said, whould I say this too recently? It also like things that happened, like a wedding, for instance, and being the grown ups at the wedding. It's something about just your mortality, you know, kind of becomes very obvious. And in this now I'm gonna I don't want to get morbid, but I want this part of my life to be as happy and as you know, filled with friendship, real friendship and love as I can make it. Because guess what I'm gonna be. And now it's just going
to get morbid. But it's you know, the clock is a ticken.
Yeah, you know, and it does like people.
You know, it's true you we don't have forever. And I think that's something else you realize at this age is you know your time isn't forever and you have to make the most of it. Anyway, before we get to philosophical that's it. Go make a new friend today. And and you know you and I were late stage friends. We only met a few years ago, and it's been one of the biggest gifts. So I love you. I love you all.
Right, guys, love you all too. Happy until next time.
Today is Monday, Monday, Happy Monday.
Okay, well it's not Monday when they're listening, so fair enough.
Happy week, Happy great week, by you guys.
Bye,