Hi, everybody. I'm Tamara Judge and I'm Danesling, and you're listening to talking a big game.
Welcome back to talking a big game with myself and danes Dan.
I feel like it's been a long time since we've talked.
It has been a long time, and I'm going right to the chase. Tamar, you have to understand me from the Midwest. I pull up Instagram stories. You're like, I'm going getting surgery. I pull it up. You have green face, your head's wrapped. Can you explain that? I got no idea? What what?
What is?
Oh my god? So now I'm two and a half weeks out and I went in and had a little bit of a brow lift, which kind of brings my brows up a little bit.
Because what is butt'? What does that mean? Where does it cut? What's being pulled? I need to know. I need I.
Literally had staples in the top of my head, in my hairline and then in my temple. So they kind of just go in there a laparoscopic I think it's called or indoscopic, I don't even know, and they go and they pull the muscles out, which raises your eyebrows, which you know what I could see better.
Dan really, yeah, look, I mean you look amazing.
Yes, But when I did that, he suggested I also do a chemical pill and a CO two laser, which really takes you down to the meat.
It felt like you were green though.
I was like, so it's actually starts out blue.
It's a Bajie blue peel and it it They used the dye to see how deep they're going into your skin. It's actually to protect you I from not going in like them going in too deep. And that's where all the swelling really came from, and the uncomfortableness and the peeling.
And I'm still my skin, if you could see, is still a little pink and it's going to take probably a good month and it and it actually my skin is it's like my makeup artist came over last night because I was on went to Dancing with the Stars to see our girl Faeda, and she's like, oh my god, your skin is like butter.
It like took ten years off of.
You and well you look amazing, but ten days ago I'm like, do I need to.
Go out and see gonna die? Like?
Is this goodbye? I know it was brutal, but it was definitely worth.
It on a pain scale zero to ten, ten being the absolute worst.
The very first day I was having, the very first night, I was having some issues because I do have like a lot of fluid in my sinus areas that just I can't get rid of, and so I always have a lot of sinus pressure. But on top of the lift, the brow lift, the swelling just put me into like migrain mode, and no matter what how many pain pills I took, it wouldn't go away. So I finally added, I talked to my doctor and I'm like, I think it's my sinus.
He's like, I don't understand this pain.
So I literally took a sinus medication cleared my sinuses out and it helped.
He goes.
That makes sense, he goes, Because your head was in a certain position the entire time for four hours. When I pulled you up, all this fluid came out of your nose.
Well you look, you look amazing, Like I cannot like, I can't believe in such a short time, like you always looked amazing, but you look amazing now real quick.
Yeah, you just went on. You were just at Dancing with the Stars.
I watch Phaedra performed what was that like to be up close to personal with another like reality TV competition showing up?
Okay, so Dan, I've always people have always go you need to go and dance to the stars. I'm like, no, that's my biggest nightmare, Like I would be so scared, so nervous, so out of my box. And the minute I walked in there the energy, the music that so many people like. It is such a big production. I'm like, oh my god, I want to do Dancing with the Stars now. But I mean I was there for Phaedra I was, and also your best friend Bananas was there at the same.
Hello for me, Oh no identity. I still don't think he's a big fan of yours.
And then.
Max was there. He was you know, he was on the other side.
He didn't sit with us, and and some of Phaser's friends. We also had MJ that was Thereda from New York Housewives.
And Parverdy I think was supposed to be there. But if you did, you see Parvada got it in a new show.
Oh uh Australia right surviv Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited for her, But you were the one they got the camera time. I'm like, hey, I saw.
I didn't know if it were all of it, but I was sitting up front, which was fun but also annoying because they had the confetti bomb.
It was sitting beach right between my legs basically, and they're like, just want to let you know.
It's a huge noise, and the first time it went off, none of us were prepared and we're like, we thought it was a gunshot, and so that four other times we had to you know, endure this loud sound.
But it was really really cool. It's so much fun.
Then we went out to dinner afterwards, to Boa, and I was just so over the top happy for Phaedrish. The girl is on fire. She's done so much from you know, Ultimate Girls Trip. I did that with her then then Traders then and then married to Medicine and then she's back on Atlanta Dancing with the Stars.
It's like non stop for her.
It was fun to see her come out and like the Dazzle but like seeds Fader in completely different light than what I was used to, but it was awesome to route her on.
But speaking of.
Different lights and different competition shows, we have a very special duo we're bringing in today, Cam.
Okay, so Penn and Kim holding this interview today. Now, let me just tell you I was talking with Amazing Race two years ago. Me and Teddy were thinking about doing it, and I literally googled them because I heard that they had won the year prior, and god, I just went down a rabbit hole on their Instagram.
It is insanity.
Now, Penn and Kim have been married eighteen years and for the past decade they have been online content creators. When I say creators, like this is like professional shit here, like this isn't just like, oh it is, I mean, it isn't per They are known for their award winning videos of a sketch, comedy, and music. They have two billion views and over eight million followers across their social
media platform. Penning Kim are best selling authors, authors, award winning podcast hosts, and were winners of season thirty three of Amazing Race. They live in Raleigh, North Carolina, with their children, Lola and Penn, and their dogs Sonny. They have a website about their family and they have a new book, adhd Is Awesome. It's available now. We're going to get into it with them. But their Amazing Race story on March second, twenty twenty two, they won the
thirty third season of Amazing Race. Due to the COVID pandemic, they shot the season in two chunks.
They had to.
Stop because of COVID and then go back in February. From February and then to September and redo it, so it was it was crazy. They traveled to England, Scotland, Switzerland, France, Greece, and Portugal, which sounds pretty freaking amazing to me.
I'm like one heck of a race.
I'm really excited to talk to them and really see I mean to have a game chopped up into two parts and how they attacked that.
But nonetheless, it.
Takes away the momentum.
I would think, I mean it, it would be hard to do that, but they they did it.
They didn't really have a choice.
So let's just get into it because I'm super excited because I literally, like I.
Said, went down a rabbit hole with them. So bring on Pen and Kim. Hello, Oh my god, I am Tamra. I don't know if you know who the hell I am.
Dan. Nice to meet you, guys.
Hey, nice to meet you.
Just want to let you know I was in talks to do amazing race. So I this was two years ago, didn't happen, but whatever, who knows if it will happen. But I went down a rabbit hole on your guys' Instagram because you guys had just.
Won, and oh my, your videos are so good, so good?
Did my mom want you to say this?
Yeah, just so entertaining, so fun, Like, we're so excited to talk to you today, So let's just get into it. What originally inspired you both to get into content creation?
You know, I think it was a very pure way. It happened by accident. We both came from the world of television news and we're kind of working that life. I had quit the news and started a company like video production. I felt like I could just like go out and make videos for people. Penn was still working as a news anchor, but I convinced him he never saw the kids, and like, you should like quit your job and we would we start a company so we'd
be making videos for other people, like behind the scenes. Yeah, and then to sort of announce that to our friends and family in our community. We put I was like, we should do a video to announce you're quitting your job on the news and then maybe like my mom would share it, and you know, my aunt would see it, and then maybe somebody would hire us locally just to make their videos behind the scenes. And we put that
out and it was called Christmas Jammies. And at the end we put it, we put our website address up there, which is now not our website address anymore. But it went that video ten years ago.
Now, that was the twenty thirteen video that blew up.
And blew it wu and viral. Yeah, and it was great for our business. I'll let you talk here eventually, honey. But we had no intention of ever being like on camera. It was all behind it. And it took us several years after that before we started making videos with our faces on it consistently because we just get really slow to learn that whole thing.
But get to get this correct.
Prior to that, you were in front of the camera right right in your prior jobs, right, so you love you were.
Yeah, we're fine at it, but really loved the behind the scenes part.
I still like that part better. I do too.
I like that part.
I like a lot.
So when when you dropped this video and you're like, okay, I'm trying to promote our new business.
You obviously had to get new business from that.
What can you talk about the response that happened from the viral video that was not intended to be viral.
Yeah, so we got we got thirteen thousands something thousand. Jeez, we got a lot of emails. I would say that of the ten thousand, like nine thousand of them were perverts who like were really interested in my wife who was in pajamas.
That's fine, that's fine.
That was a lot of that, a lot of a lot of that. And then maybe a thousand of them were which is a great number, where like, hey, my business is interested in this, Like we're interested in using you for this. And then maybe like a hundred of them were like viable options that were in our area and that we could actually go after. And then maybe those hundred, maybe twenty of them came to fruition. So we kind of had kickstarted accidentally a production company with
this video. Yeah, and that was our That was kind of how we did it for a while, and then sort of discovered slowly slower than some that that we could still make fun videos on a regular basis on YouTube and Facebook and that could be its own economy. Where you know, if you get a certain number of subscribers, then brands come to you for deals and monetize it.
And that that came a little bit later. So we kind of spun off our production company and we still consult in it, but that's we're not really a day to day part of that and went full time into just making our own content.
I think it's important to paint the landscape in the context of twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen.
It's not like it is now where everyone does that.
When you guys we were making those videos, what was because it sounds like him you were you were hesitant to like put yourself out. There was the hesitation just because it was still kind of like weird at the time.
Well, we didn't know you could make money on it. So we put out Christmas Jammis. I think in the first few days it had something like ten million views, and we got an email and said, you have to turn monetization on on YouTube. We didn't know how to turn monetization on.
That's funny, yeah, and so we.
Like went into the back end. Figured we didn't realize that you could make money off of it, and to be clear. When we started doing videos with our faces on it, it was only to boost profile so that we would get hired by companies to do their production. So we still took us a long We just it took us a long time to figure out there were YouTubers at the time. We just weren't aware of them. We didn't hang out on YouTube. Yeah, so it wasn't but now everybody can, you know, have a TikTok, which
is great. I think the democracy of it is great, but it was very We didn't know how. We weren't that smart.
Yeah, so you do this to this day, do you still do it yourself? You do the editing, you do everything yourself.
You have some help production team.
Now, yeah, there are parts of it that we still do. It's you know, we were very lucky to have a team we have. We have an editor who also helped shoot, who also helps with graphics sometimes sometimes we edit. Though we also have like a kind of a creative I don't want to say it created director, but we have a woman who handles a ton of our brand deals marketing, helps us with the idea creation, and she's also in
some of our videos. So it's a very small kind of tight knit team of people who live here in North Carolina. And that's like, we don't scale up too much because anytime we try to do that, you sort of lose track of what I think people are looking for, which is a fairly authentic look at what's going on, but in a humorous take on our lives.
And that's because you're in the landscape I'm in. I'm in like YouTube and Twitch and everything like that. So when you guys went fully into this and you talk about like having an idea generator, like how do you stay on the trends and so like your next video, how do you know what that's going to be? And like are you fairly confident, hey this is gonna hit or you roll the dice every time?
Now, we don't mean there's some things that we know traditionally do better, but you never know until you press post. I think it's interesting, like our audience is generally like moms and some dads, you know, maybe in from their mid twenty until maybe their fifties. It's kind of like that's kind of our target. A lot of professionals, some of these people don't even like care about what's trending,
what they seem to care about. Is that the ish that's going on in our family seems to remind them of the ish that's going on in their family.
Yeah, So it's easier for us because I don't think the people who watch our videos expect us to know trends like you are, you know, you're super young and trendy like it would be. I think if we posted something with super trendy, they wouldn't know what it was.
So I can't keep up on these trends.
I'm older than all of you, I'm pretty sure, and I just I'm like, I don't even know this language young the younger generation.
I'm like, what does that mean?
But that's related, And we've done that because we have teenagers and so we've done videos about that, like trying to speak. So it's I think that one thing we've been very good at is we sort of look at our lives and look at the world around us. And my favorite part of this job is there's this lens you can put on and say, like, is that funny?
So there's like something that happens, you know, in our lives it seems really mundane, and we can kind of try it on and say like, would it be funny if we talked about it like this or is this a funny song? Because he's a great musician, he could write original music like I've heard. Yeah, I went on a like a twenty four hour trip. We went to New York just for a day, and I packed like twelve pair of underwear and he's like, how many times
are you going to crack your pants? I'm like, I don't know if I just feel like I need a lot of underwear time. Yeah, it's like twelve pair of underwear. Yeah, and so you just don't know what you want to be prepared, be prepared and so what I know. So he's like, so he wrote a song about it, you know, and it was like this, So that's that's sort of how the ideas go in our house, like going out like the really mundane thing.
I like, like the just the raw humor in it, I mean, and we can go safe to say you don't go commando ever.
No, I like to have options. I have had color options. What if I start my period, like I need.
Like some heft, yeah, I need often never know.
Now, you guys just wrote a book as well. ADHD is awesome and it's available now right, Yes, can you tell us a little bit about that and what inspired you?
Yeah, thanks for mentioning it. I have ADHD. You can figure that out after talking to me for a few seconds. Usually in case, it's a part of who I am. And it was a source of confusion and shame when I was growing up, and I found great support and I found a job that kind of helped u It helped.
It actually was ADHD friendly. I found a wipe who is ADHD friendly and yeah, smoking hot and in a lot of ways, ADHD has been a superpower and a real asset for me, including when we were on The Amazing Race, Like it actually really helped me and we talked about it some on the show. And you know, when we told that story on The Amazing Race, we got a lot of comments like, oh man, thank you for saying something. Everyone like makes it feel It makes
me feel like this is such a bummer. Doctors, sometimes teachers even you know, and parents who don't understand it. They talk about it like there's something wrong with you. And so we wanted to get the message out that yeah, it does suck sometimes, but there's nothing wrong with you. You have a unique brain it's not really built for
the world that we live in. But if you put some systems in place and do a little bit of work, there's a ton of creativity and spontaneity and the hyper focus, all kinds of great things that come with ADHD.
Yeah.
I grew up with a brother with ADHD and I want to kick his ass every single day.
Yeah.
Yeah, So in the book you talk a lot.
In the book, you talk about some tools and then things that it can help and help people navigate that. Is there anything you can share with someone listening right now? I'd be like, I'm definitely gonna buy the book, but give me like one tip.
Yeah, I mean, I set a timer every time I turn a stove on because the way that my brain works all I'm sure you know this about your brother, like height, just walk away and leave the stove on, leave the door wide open. So I have all these kind of reminders in place. iPhone is great for that, Hey, series, set and reminder for you know, ten minutes while the stove's on. I let's see, I.
See it's a magnet on top of this car.
Yeah, I have a magnet on top of my car that doesn't hold anything, but It reminds me not to put my coffee mug on it, because I've driven away and broken several coffee mugs. I have a reminder on my hamper, a little sticker that reminds me to take my keys and wilet out because I've washed them several times.
I have a reminder in the bathroom to put the toilet seat down, or I did, and now I just do, like, listen to this, I just piece sitting down all the time, now, Dan like, there's no there's no harm to that.
No, there's no no harm.
Relaxed.
It makes it easier to get on your phone.
Yeah, exactly, I'm not gonna lie. My husband doesn't there.
Yeah, I mean you never know what's gonna happen while you're down there.
I think he was taught to do that.
Yeah really Yeah, who wanted him to like be really clean?
Yeah?
Yeah, I think I think I might have a little touch of it. My daughter tells me all the time, you have ADHD. I have flooded our kitchen twice because I turn think on and then I get busy. Sometimes I go outside and water a lawn and then I come in and the sinkers that were flowing in the kitchen led it. Oh yeah, oh yeah, I do this.
I walk in two rooms and forget what I'm doing. But it just might just be old age though.
Well, there are ADHD symptoms in perimenopause. That's one of the things we discovered.
But I also will say that most of the we work in this like wonderful world with a lot of creative people, most of the most creative, wonderful people we know. And I'm looking at the screen here and you guys are creative and wonderful. There's a touch, it's a spectrum, like there's a little dath ahd in there, and be proud of it, like that's it's a really it's a really good brand.
Yeah, we're good at keeping people entertained, because if we get bored, if we're not entertaining ourselves. Yeah you know what I mean, I can get that.
Yeah. Well, let's talk about your time on Amazing Race season thirty three. Jeez, been around a long time.
You had a very unique experience on the show, filming it in two separate chunks because of COVID.
Now, me and Dan were on traders. I don't know if you've seen that.
I couldn't imagine doing a show and then halfway go okay, stop and then how long was it before you start.
Started back up again?
Nineteen months?
What we had we started out, we had the best like where were you when the World shut down?
Story, because we were in Scotland, Scotland. We were in Scotland.
We had just finished the third leg of the amazing race we had won, and so we were riding high and so but we were older, you know, participants, and so we go back to the hotel room and we turn on the news and that.
Cruise ship there's a cruise ship in Italy.
And this was end of February, beginning of March, so before the US had even really start talking about Yeah, and we were aware enough and we looked at each other, We're like, we're going home. Like if we don't go home, we're not going to get out of here.
We got this.
This is a game show, and this game show experiment is over. So right away we were in your Something they don't tell you is that you're sort of even before COVID, you're sort of quarantined. So you go into your hotel room and they have a security guard in the hallway. You can't leave your hotel room because you don't have a.
Self like traders.
Yeahh you have a cell phone, you have you don't have any way in it to a safety issue, so you're sort of your quarantine. So we were trying to get information out and we're trying to ask questions and there you can tell like people were scrambling. And then yeah, they sent us home and we landed in the US. We're like, guys, everybody, it's coming, get paper, towels, get to and nobody like, nobody here cared for two weeks.
It's crazy.
Oh and then they cared there was no more toilet paper to be no more toilet paper.
Yeah, real quick, Before we get to that, how did because you guys had a production company running your videos, how does it go from that? Like, Hey, I'm gonna walk away for thirty plus days to go shoot this reality show. So how did that come about for you guys to get on this show and then make that decision say, hey, the business is going to run itself gone.
While we're going. We had to do it twice, which was even tougher because we had to go back. We did it once. That was about twenty two days and we did it again for twenty two days because of
all the onboarding. But the short answer is we were lucky to have a team of people that we just mentioned that where we worked really over time to batch a bunch of content and then you know, we added some reshares here and there and just hoped like we definitely didn't want to share our business down for good, because there's a good chance in these shows, as you know, that if you don't win, you're walking home with nothing or close to nothing, and except for the experience, and
so we did, we did try to think ahead. The biggest challenge for us really wasn't the business. It was the fact that we had we had kids who we had never been away from that long.
And how old were your kids at that time.
The first time, they were thirteen and eleven pen or eleven.
And we're super codependent, so it's like an unhealthy like I'm super helicopter mom, I'm super clinging.
So that was that was rough.
For me, and I'm not sure how it is on your shows. But because they didn't want people to know how they were doing, you couldn't call them on the first trip. We could not speak to our kids for twenty two days. The second time we went back, a lot of people said, we're not going back unless we can talk to our kids. It's a pandemic kind of beenage.
We got a once a week, five minute phone call which actually made things was almost Was it supervised?
Yes, yeah, So what's the same thing with us when we when we did Traders, we got in, they stripped us of everything. We had three big guys go through our suitcases, open up our shampoo bottles, do everything. I accidentally took my car keys because they were in my purse. They took my car keys, they took my jewelry, they took everything from us.
Everything I found that I had my So the first time I wasn't I knew. I didn't even bring my cell phone because I was like, I just don't even want to have it.
I didn't bring anything with me.
And it's these three huge guys and they you're treated a little bit like you're a Crimena present. Yeah, and there I felt so violated and I and I had and so amazing race. You have to pack everything, so I had expertly packed, like.
My that's what you're I had to watch your videos because I thought for sure we me and my other co host, Teddy Mellencamp. I thought for sure we were gonna get picked to do this. So I was watching your packing. You know, something happened. I can't remember what it was. I think probably didn't pass the psych I don't know.
No, but honestly, crazier the better, so that I mean, I'm sure.
No, I don't know about that, but I don't know.
I can't even remember what happened, but I remember going, I gotta watch because you you did a video about what to pack.
Yes, yes, and so that's why I started going down the rabbit hole and watched every one of your videos.
You're very I'm sorry about that, but anyway, so they throw your crap everywhere and they're like, okay, you're done, and I'm like, oh my god, I just spent three days packing that and you just tore it apart. But there is there is a person two people in our cast who brought vibrators and had to explain those and get those kind of dissected.
That we did too.
Yeah, that was very interesting.
They took them, they took they took them.
They let them keep them, but they.
Took everything from us.
Stop it.
Yeah, I personally did not bring a vibrator, but one. I think one girl got it confiscated and one girl didn't for some reason.
It's unfair, I know.
To pivot so to get on the show.
Were you guys, were you guys recruited or did you make an incredible video with your production team and submitted it.
Back to the vibrators. I'm all right, someone, you guys are have done these before. Someone reached out to us and asked us to make a tape.
But we still had to go through the things we need to make a We had to make a video we had to do before that. I think now it's all on zoom, but we had to fly to La.
Twice, all on zoom. Now that would be I think they do it all on zoom.
Now they do everything on zoom.
Now, Yeah, did you guys, Were you guys separated when you got there or do you got to stay.
In the same hotel?
We were never separated, never, So, okay, were you guys separated?
Everybody?
Well, we had a couple Larsa.
Pippen and Marcus Jordan were on Traders and they were separated. They had to be in different hotel rooms. Michael no, no, no, this is for traders for traders.
Okay, yeah yeah, yeah.
Yeah, this is the Michael Jordan's kid and Scotti Pippin's ex wife. Did I get that right? Yeah?
Yes, exactly.
Yeah. Oh my gosh, what a tangled web.
So when you guys got the essentially the recruiting outreach, like hey, we want to have you on the show, but you still got to go through the process. Was it immediately like yes, we're going to do this or was there some how did you convince your each other to do it?
Our daughter had talked us into it the first time, like we were like, how this might be kind of fun, like we you know Kim more than I. But Kim grew up like loving The Amazing Race and watching it. She was like a super fan, and I became one, you know, I guess after the fact. But our daughter like she I remember We're sitting at dinner, She's like, what are you going to remember some random month in February or the time that you tried to go on the Amazing Race.
So true, and to have that support is so good from your kids because as a mom or dad leaving your kids for.
That long, you're like parent how can I do this but to have your kids go do it?
Mom?
They were realized.
She probably didn't realize.
But I have to say I think my hesitation was many like a leaving my kids because I'm so codependent that I feel like I'm only one who could take care of them. But I'm also very competitive and I don't like to lose. And I and I just felt like if we got there and the shows you were on, like you can't really help, Like it's there's more like strategy whatever.
Amazing race.
The thing I love about it, like I couldn't have done the shows you guys were on, but like the thing I love about it is it is sort of up to us, right, like in control. We're in control, grew up. It's our fault, not somebody like, you know, backstabbing us and kicking us off. So I was scared to look like an idiot, and several times I did, by the way, but on TV was my big red flag.
I'd also say like we were very fortunate in our race that we were able to have more control than usual because of COVID. At least when we got back there was a ton of self driving. It was almost entirely self driving, so you weren't going to get you know, a bad cab or you know, you weren't going to miss a flight because we all had to fly in the same jet because we were in a bubble. We
were basically doing this entire thing in a bubble. There's never been another reality show like this, or there never was before where we were all. It was nice. They put us on a private jet.
That's nice. Yeah, yeah, that's really nice.
What scared me about it was like, you had to drive, but yet you don't have ways, and you're in foreign countries and you're in it. You have a stick shift, right, yeah, And I'm like, oh my god, this.
Yeah, read a map, everybody.
I can't read a map, you kid, No, I don't think I can. My husband could, but if I went with him, he could. But I'm like, it was gonna be me and Teddy, two girls like you know that barely got through high school.
We're like, we're gonna we're gonna read a map.
I feel like it's not that they didn't choose you, it's just they're waiting on a different season for you because they have to put you on.
Well, we'll see, we'll see it's actually carved out of my Bravo contract that I is.
Yeah, okay, I have phone calls to make because you would be such good TV.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, I would like to do it with my husband. I would feel more safe. It's hard for me to be away from my family for that long. And my daughter's now almost nineteen, so it'd be easier because she can drive and she can get around. She still lives with us. But you know, but to be I couldn't.
It was just hard.
It's hard.
It was really good.
We had We had a fun It was fun fun now like he was talking me off the ledge alot because I but like we had a great time, like as married people on that rate.
Yeah. So the best part about it is, and this may not sound like the best thing, but they take your cell phone away, they take your computers away. You have no access to internet. You can watch TV, but it's all in German, so you don't understand the country is It's like, it's actually kind of fun watching and thinking what the hell do you think they're talking about?
But really it's just you and your partner, whether that's your friend or your wife, or your sibling or whatever it is, and you're getting this uninterrupted kind of quality, one on one time that we don't get anymore in the world because we're busy staring at our phones. So it was it's the closest, even though there were cameras in our face most of the time. It's the closest that felt to her. Maybe.
Ever, how much downtime did you have?
Lots, especially after COVID because we had to test in quarantine, you know, you think about it. We spent a total of forty days on a show that had ten eleven episodes.
Right, so there we would have just they don't do this anymore. But the rhythm of ours was and they never told us when we were racing, but you could kind of do the math of it.
We'd a land in a country, test.
Test, quarantine for a day, test again, and then race, so it was like there was sort of a rhythm to it. But I don't know, but before pre COVID, our legs we did three back to back, like we did a night, a morning, like took a train through the day and the night, like we didn't stop.
Yeah, it was pretty fast, and they didn't like.
Can they just like wake you up excuse me. They can just wake you up in the middle of the night to do like a challenge too, right, Yes, did they do that too?
They could, But this is a show.
It's first of all the crew to talk about behind the scenes, like I want to be on the crew of this show. They worship their crew. They treat their crew so well that they wouldn't. I don't know that they would do that to the crew, like the crew, you know what I mean, Like you would get a hint of it, because the crew would need thirty six hours beforehand or something like that.
Right, right, I would imagine that they have a lot of crews though, right.
Well, honestly, a lot of the people have been there for years and years and it's kind of this gold standard to be a photographer or an audio operator or a member of the crew on the Amazing Race because it is it's a great workout. I think that they end up like getting tons of they're working harder than we are. If you see us running with a backpack and you're like, whoa, these guys are running with a backpack,
there's a guy. If you see us, it means there's a guy running backward with an even heavier device.
Okay, so one of the guys, Pablo, that worked on our show for years, worked on Amazing Race. Yeah, and he was very fit, and I remember he was stopping Orange County and he's like, I got to start training. I got to start running because I have to I'm going off to Amazing Race.
I'm like, oh my god. He's like, it's brutal. He's all we have to literally run with the cameras it is.
It was. I was fascinated.
I mean I would be in the middle of the challenges and I'd be looking at the crew and asking their crew questions because I'm so fascinated by it. They and it's interesting because they have It's like it's first on, first off. So if you have if you have seniority, you into the last day. But as as the contestants are eliminated, they have to also send crew home. Oh really Yeah, so you have to get you have to be with the show for years to stay deep into the season.
You just don't need as any of them as it goes on. Yeah, but it was like interesting at the end of our episode, I think because of all we had to go through and all the crew had to go through. They agreed and they showed for the first time ever in the show and it hasn't happened again. They did like a quick pan of the entire crew when we were at the finish line, and it was
obviously wasn't the whole crew, it was who was left. Yeah, but that was like, to me, that was like one of my favorite parts of the show because I love all of those people so much. They were incredibly respectful and to your point, very fit. And I think if they it would be great if they did a season of The Amazing Race where they let the crew.
Well, oh my god, I just got chills. That would be amazing.
So I'm fascinated because you guys started the first three legs end very well. Yes, breaks are put on the show. You go to COVID, what's going on in that downtime strategy? And then how do you ramp back up? Because like, hey, you're in a great position. Now what and that's a lot of time to think assess who you're up against. You researched the other people you're up against. What did you guys do during that downtime?
Such a good question. We that is the busiest we were ever. We were ever for our sort of like content creation business, like we made a new video every single day just around like life during COVID, and we thought that being on the Amazing Race for three episodes would be a fun story we would tell at cocktail parties. We never thought they would get back. Put it out of our mind, like, never thought they'd get back. And yeah, and so I think, so we left. It was this time.
Oh my gosh, it was like this day three years ago we left. It's like September whatever it did. It was like mid September we left to go back. But then I think in August, so a month beforehand. They called us and they were like, this is our plan. And I immediately said no, because I have kids. It's a pandemic. I don't want to leave my kids during a pandemic.
They're like, you signed a contract and no, no.
We didn't have to go back.
We didn't have to go back.
We didn't.
It was special circumstances. And in fact, quite a few people did not come back.
And they but they said that.
So they basically then laid out their plan like you're going to be you're going to travel exclusively, you're going to drive yourself.
They landed out. It seemed super safe. Again.
Our kids are like, get the hell out of here, and we had a month to get in. We're in shape, we work out, but we had a month like I put on a backpack and started running for the first time, and it was and I knew it was scarier going back the second time because I knew who I was up against and they're all bad asses. They had asked
us to not be in touch with each other. We had a lot of time in Scotland when we together, when we all thought the show was going to be canceled forever, so we all traded phone numbers and they said, okay, don't follow each other, don't make it public, whatever.
I have to say.
Most I talked to Lulu and Laala occasionally, or the Twins radio DJs and Raquel and Kayla, and they were the second place team occasionally, but not enough for them to like we were passing notes back and forth when like the kind of intro week they bring back like we were kind of passing notes back and forth but really wasn't as much strategy as there probably should have been on our side.
Well, they it was the weirdest I don't know why they Maybe I know why. Maybe it was just because of a fairness thing. There were no U turns our season, zero U turns, and I think it probably was because of the extenuating circumstances, Like it was a it was a unique one of one season of the Amazing Race where they just they just did what they could to
get going again. And one of the things that Kim didn't tell you was the reason we did ultimately decide was CBS came back with their like chief Health Office, got on the phone with us, and you could tell he'd talk to quite a few people and Sid they put out this plan for how to get us safely through Europe and through low transmission countries, and we looked at each other and we're like, this is safer than being in our community, right, It really was was we
could be And so that was like one of the big reasons, unbelievable pioneering effort by CBS to make this happen. But I think, you know, there were a lot of new different challenges, a lot of self driving, but in the end, it wasn't Caddy. There wasn't a lot of cattiness in this one.
I have a little confusion.
So the first twenty two days that you went and you filmed, did they use that or did they start you all?
Oh?
So they did, so it was just a continuation.
I wasn't sure if they scrapped that because you said certain people didn't come back.
Yes, how did they roll that into the show?
Well, so, first of all, I know, it sounds like a lot for twenty two days. The reason why is we were stuck in Scotland for several days trying to get out of there and trying to figure out how to suspend the race. And then there's like launch week, which is seven days before you even do anything. That's why it took so long there. But yeah, they I
mean they told this. They told the story entirely. They like when we finally figured out we were going to have to go home, they called us all back in when we finally got flight, And it was like four days after we had finished racing, and Phil came out and they filmed it to make it look like we had just gotten done with this leg four days ago, and and Phil's like, guys, I'm sorry to tell you there's a global pandemic, and we're all like, of course,
we've known this for four days, but yeah, what really, I know he's the first.
This disappointing.
Meanwhile, everybody's sort of hung over because they give you money, They take your all money, but then they give you cash at the beginning of a leg to be like if you have to buy something. So we all sort of pulled it and used that, and so we were like up late. And then has his credit card number memorized. So when that ran out, we like opened a tap at.
In Glasgow, it's a random hotel and got it.
So we're all like looking at you, We're all hungover. We're like, yeah, wow, this is so devastating.
Yeah, and then we got on a plane to went home. But then so then they used that, they told.
That part of the story as you know, nineteen months later and you see us come running.
Yeah, and do they replace the people?
So they good question, it's a great question. Very Uh.
Three people were not going to come back. One couple was pregnant. One couple there was like visa issues, she had been pregnant.
Nineteen months of staying in your house, you got got knocked.
Up, getting visited with it.
And then they broke up.
Yeah, they broke up, and then Spencer and Anthony like he had a new job. And then tragically one Isaiah Taylor, a couple they were there with us for the launch week. They were they were traveling with us, and then Butther died of COVID. Oh my god, we were like about to take off. We're like where Isaiah and Taylor and then COVID? I know, so four people ended up not coming back. So they brought back the first two teams that got eliminated.
Oh that's right, that's right.
I see them running out. You see them running out. So you remember that, down two teams. So it was like it made it was a little bit of a wonky.
They shrunk the number of episodes.
Yeah, they they had a shrinkt so, but behind the scenes we're like, okay, well we're down these three. But then and then yeah, it was it was they were really flying by the seat of their pants production wise.
Yeah, well, what would you say the key to winning amazing races?
Reading a map?
Yeah?
Read, I mean that's not a very sexy you know what, I'll give you the answer that we like that was just like we're buddies. I'm gonna tell you that's the real answer. But honestly, like we did a lot of we wrote a book about this. We did like marriage counseling, just because marriage counseling is good. And we learned how to communicate with each other and how to support each other and hype each other up when things are going
well and also when they're not going well. And I think that that was that was probably the most important thing, especially thinking back about the times that like things didn't go well and it didn't derail us too much.
Yeah, we sort of practiced how we were going to talk to each other when shit was going sideways, like I don't love hearing. Like if I'm struggling with something, I don't love hearing you got this.
You got this.
Because I don't got this, you say that to me, I'm a throat punch you.
So we had to practice.
We kind of practice like what are the words you can say when I'm really struggling, Like we sort of had to practice how to talk to each other. But I would say, bottom line, the things that we screwed up on was just reading the clue and they will take this. And so even in like the final leg, I was like I was like the adrenalines going. If you have the ability and you guys are seasoned pros at this point to stop, take four extra seconds to actually read it.
Those are the people that win, the people that read you.
Just take your time. You can just force four extra seconds. Take the time, yam.
I'm really interested.
What what did Penne have to say to you to not get throat punched in those moments that you were struggling?
Like, what was the key to help you? You're amazing?
No, he love you. He's like, I love you. I wouldn't be able to do this either.
Really hard, like empathize, it's very difficult.
This looks really hard. I don't know how you're doing this. You're doing great and so like it's I it's like I need you to be like I need you to see me and see that I'm struggling and not make me.
Feel shitty about it.
So it's very it's really weird that I am high have that trait. But I don't like to be told you got this.
Oh that's like me. I don't like to hear when you're like upset about and it's like chill out, chill out, I will knock you out. Knock you out for saying that you're not alone.
You're not alone, chill out.
Yeah, that's what I want to say. That's what I want to say.
Was there a moment in the race when you guys looked at each other and we were like, this is ours to lose?
Or did you always feel like an uphill battle?
Good question. So you never feel fully safe with a win until you see the finish line, like that's for sure the truth and they make sure that that's the case. And they really did that with us. There was a time when we looked at each other after I think we won three in a row at one point, and we looked at each other and thought, Okay, we can win this, and we're probably like people probably are gunning for us now. And there were a lot of parts where we thought, oh man, this is not going to happen.
Yeah, because there's luck.
I think that's the fun part of the amazing race is that there's luck involved, and so you can just pick an unlucky thing or to take a wrong turn. So we felt like we had this skill, it's just whether we were lucky enough.
Yeah. We had about the least amount of time to celebrate of anybody in history, because the final challenge was literally like the finish line and the final challenge were in the same place, and we passed the people at the very.
End like they were ahead of us.
Yeah, we came into the final challenge in second place. We passed them and they said, go that way, and we went through a tunnel was about forty feet long, and then a bunch of like gas and fireworks happened and like these like like the vapor and we go through.
The sounds horrible.
I know, it wasn't glass and vapor.
It was like the long term sorry uh no, but but and then we had won. That was it. And so like we were comfortable with our position for exactly eight seconds, right, is.
Well, we know what your key to your key to winning the races, but in your everyday lives, how do you achieve success? And what does that look like to you? What does success look like to you?
Success to us is usually for us, honestly, to us, success is just we keep going. We like I have a buddy of mine. I was describing my job to him and he's like, it's kind of like you wake up every morning unemployed. And I thought about it him, like, oh, crap. You're right, because whatever idea I did yesterday, it's gone. It's on its way to Mars. And the only way this is going to work is when we come up with our next idea. So we just we keep going.
And we definitely trust in each other's opinions and thoughts as a team, and we've built a good team around us to help kind of cultivate that trust. But yeah, like we just keep going.
Yeah, no, I do with with especially with AHD.
Do you wake up in the middle of the night with ideas and go, oh my god, this is an amazing idea for a video.
I got to write it down.
Is use your mind just going all the time about what are we going to film next?
Yeah, yes, And I don't always say them out loud, and maybe I should, I don't know. But sometimes I come up with a great idea and then when I say it out loud, I realize as I'm saying it how ridiculous it is.
Shoad ideas too, But.
But yeah, my brain's working pretty much most of the time, and when it does shut down, it is So maybe you've notice this with you or with your other when it does shut down, when you can find like a good TV show or a Crossford puzzle or something. You are on another planet and you were not to be like if someone says something to you, like you may not even hear them. But when when when you have a chance to just kind of like space out and think. Sometimes it's in the middle of the night or in
the shower or wherever you are. It's kind of a great asset of an ADHD brain because it's got all of this stimulus coming at you, and it's the reason why you have these random thoughts all the time. And it's the reason why people with ADHD are great innovators and great creatives. And some of them work in this business and the rest of them were people like Thomas Edison and you know Leoni DaVinci like famously ADHD.
Speaking of ADHD, I have a couple random content NERD questions for you. Okay, first one, coming off the Amazing Race, right, it's a you know, huge show. How much of a bump or audience increase did you see relative to your YouTube everything else?
Very small?
I think that the CBS Amazing Race audience is not a high digital audience, so not huge.
Yeah, what were you surprised by that did you go in and thinking like, hey, mate, no, you're just like no.
I think we were very aware of that. I think it's different when you're on Survivor or on Big Brother, on the you know, Real Housewife. I think those shows are followed by a younger population, perhaps, but we knew. My mother even told us, She's like, this show's not necessarily going to help you, but it could certainly hurt you, so be careful what you put out there.
You know what it was great for like my aunts and my uncles who I haven't been able to explain my job to.
Job.
We are, Uncle, Yeah, we are in these but then we do the amazing race and he's like, oh, I see.
Now, Yeah I get it.
Yeah, I legitimize best in the eyes of our older relatives.
Yeah.
My next content nerd question for you, it's a two parter.
Have you guys ever had an idea you guys thought were like and this idea is okay for a video and it blew up?
And also the inverse like, yes, what were those?
I think the ideas I would say, once a week, we're putting out a video where like this is the stupidest thing ever. Let's see how it does. And I'm pleasantly surprised. What was the Oh the.
Pillows one did really well, and that one like no one was the one about the fifteen decoradive pillows.
Oh yeah, I was excited about that one, I would say.
And there even you know, remember when that is a solar eclipse was happening. Oh yeah, that's I was like, we need to do something about that. It's happening today, the solar clips. We need to do something. And he goes, hey, hand me that pan and then that he drove my son to school that pulled over in a parking lot, and he sort of he had already had a rendition of total eclipse with the heart because on the recorder he had already done that, and he sort of did.
A real would have that argu Yeah, And so.
We kind of did a reenactment of what the solar clips had and we even uploaded so quickly had some misspelling on it, and it has like a million million, twenty million views.
Or something like that. This is incredible. But that is incredible. Dan. There was this one time I was like, I am I do the best Doctor Phil impression anyone I've ever heard ever I'm going to do a doctor Phil thing about parenting.
And so he went on a bald wig.
It got negative views. It's like people returned their computers when they turned it on.
It was so bad.
What would you say is more creative?
Well, in different ways she is. She's super good at looking at the world around us and and finding the nugget, finding the funny nugget. Like it's sort of like the way a stand up comedian would say, have you ever noticed blank? She's excellent at that.
But what I think we compliment each other. Well, like I noticed we have this I don't know in your house. So I do a lot of online shopping and there's a stack outside our back door boxes that just I don't break down. I don't, but I'm like, maybe I'll keep them. And so I just have the stack of pretty good boxes. And so I said, depend, I'm like, we should do something about but.
I feel like everybody has a stack of boxes. I don't.
I'm such an adult, Like sometimes I'm like, do I keep them? Definitely not going to break them down? Like and so then he took that and he turned it into a song about He called it like it's a pretty good box and it was like a thirty second song. He wrote it, you know, in ten minutes. We shot it, we put it, and it has many millions views. So I think like the partnership works. Like I can say I am more likely to say have you ever noticed?
And then I say, here's how we could maybe do that?
Yeah.
Yeah, So you're just a great team.
We're great except when we're fighting.
Define we're fighting.
Sometimes we're good content when you're fighting, right, Yeah.
You guys, ever, like take a step back and pinch yourself that.
I mean, it seems like you guys would spend an incredible amount of time together. I have all these amazing experiences, and your job is it's like essentially finding the funny things about your life and presenting him to the world.
It's pretty incredible.
It doesn't feel real. We always like once a week we'll say I think we've reached the end of the internet. We should probably get real jobs.
Now.
Get so lucky. No, yeah, and almost sort of like guilty. I mean there's a lot I grew up in a small town and I'm like I have some survivors guilt almost of like, oh, I got out and I'm doing pretty well. So like I feel like a little guilty and also like it could go away.
Yeah, yeah, it's so. My short answer is I like to stop and small the roses sometimes when I can. But then you wake up the next morning and you're unemployed.
Yeah. Well, do you guys also have a podcast? Yeah? Can you tell us a little bit about that.
You're doing great? By the way, thank you.
For all this.
I'm very grateful for all these opportunities, and so, okay, the podcast is like the one time a week. It's almost like our amazing race time when we take all the phones and put them down and just have a chance to talk to each other or to listen to someone else and learn something new. And it's funny because it is still on a digital format, but our podcast is kind of like our marriage therapy at this point.
Yeah, so, I mean kind of I wish it were, you know, really pigeonholed into like reality TV ars. I had sort of a something we can peg it on, but it's sort of just everything. It's kind of an everything life podcast.
Now, do you have like a rundown what you're gonna talk about it?
You just shoot the shit we have, Yes, But it's a pretty loose rundown. It's and I don't know that we stay true to it all the time. I know you guys don't, because I can just tell that you have. You guys have the ability to kind of go off on tangents, and I think that's on honestly the best We have a like a one shooter that kind of talks about it and points exactly.
Yeah, that's the best way. Yeah, just veer off wherever you want to.
Go, speak at a bullet points.
I have a selfish question for you guys, now that you've won Amazing Race. Mm hmm, do you have any more aspirations to go compete and win another show?
And if show? If so, what would that show?
Oh? Wow? So, I here's here's the thing I would. I would, and you would too. I would rather produce a season of The Amazing Race than be on it. And you've said the same thing.
I would rather produce the season of The Amazing Race. But so here's the okay, survivor, I am endlessly fascinated. I would self eliminate day one. I just don't. I can't lie really really well to people, So just not not that I'm super nice necessarily, but I would rather just like say it to your face, like I just I wouldn't have I couldn't amazing television.
Let me give you what should be the answer to Kim. Kim should go on Dancing with the Stars. She is a spectacular dancer.
I was there last night, you were Yeah, so Phedro, who was on Traders with us and has been on Housewife, does a lot of things. She's a contestant on Dancing with the Stars. It was my first time in the audience and I was just telling Dan earlier before you guys got on that the.
Energy there is so amazing.
I've always been like everyone's like, oh, you should being down to the stars, and always said that is my biggest nightmare.
First of all, I can't dance. I'd be so nervous. I'm so out of my box. As soon as I walked in, I'm like, I freaking want to be on Dance with the Stars. This is just amazing.
You should do it. No, we need to watch, we need to watch. No, you should totally do that. So I back to your question, Probably my worst nightmare would be Big Brother, because that's what Dan was on. Yeah, I know, I know, I think everybody watching twenty four to seven at least with an amazing race and survivor, Like there are moments when the cameras aren't there so being watched and then always having to be sort of like in competition.
I would die.
Yeah, I would have a touch any.
Of the non competition reality. Would you be on a housewife show?
We would be really boring.
Yeah, we would be what do you be?
You guys are always like doing these crazy videos?
Yeah, I don't think we.
First of all, we live in Raleigh, North Carolina, and that would be not good for the Housewives franchise.
Because I bet it would.
I think could do any town, any.
Town, honestly, it would be like a next door, the next door.
What is good about rally is there are a lot of women who will just say bless your heart instead of actually like saying what they want to say.
My grandma used to say that bless your heart, and that's kind of like you to me exactly.
Nowadays I'm like, bless your heart. I just want to tell them.
To Yeah, so the middle finger or it's you're really dumb, so you have to be able to translate your heart, I think, But I think it would just be really boring, but yeah, sure, like if they were.
Sure, you can find a group of friends that could just be hilarious because I feel like you're you both are very raw. You don't censor yourself, You're not like I mean, come on, we were talking about pooping your pants.
It's a minute out the gates.
So like a lot of people on reality TV, like they don't want to go there and they want to look like they're perfect and that never works out.
And I know you got to show any what schopen.
Oh my gosh, Well, I'm not qualified for any of the shows. I would want to gone. I would want to go on the Masked Singer just because I want one of those badass masks.
And I like the problem is that I'll take it you're Tony Hawk. I'm not Tony Hawk. I look like him.
Yeah that's funny.
So I would do that or uh, you know what any of the really like heavily physically challenging ones that are less less dramatic. Yeah, but survivors, so Caddy, I would get voted off immediately. I would not. I would not form an alliance because if you form an alliance with someone, that means you're not you're like excluding someone else. I just don't have I'm not a good exclusionary person. I would do deal Dealer Island Island like the combination of the two things and the.
Weirdest I've never seen that one and all that that.
Was the most bizarre show ever, and I found that in credibly amusing.
Yeah, oh my god, that's a long answer. I know we're running out of time, but I want to ask you one question. You guys are together all the time. How do you maintain a healthy marriage when you're working with your partner and spend so much time together?
At Tuesday, I will say, so, we we do have a great team Anne, Marie and Sam who worked with us. Our marriage improved and our marriage changed. When we hired people.
We needed tie breakers.
We needed a tie breaker, and we needed boundaries. So so we actually we do stop work at five. We don't start talking about work until the next morning. So we had we had, but we had to learn boundaries. We had boundaries. Yeah, we are sitting here in our like finished attic spaces is where Pen works. I have an office downstairs. We work in different spaces. We have sort of different jobs within the company. But then yesterday
we went to an event we saw friends speak. She did great, and we were driving home and we went out to dinner and we just didn't talk, and he's like, are you done with me today?
I'm like, you know what, I'm just doding with words today. Yeah, I'm used on my words.
And there was no like he laughed. We're like, oh, yeah, we're done.
And so we were sitting at the bar because we just grab a quick right, and we just sat in silence and steered. So I think, knowing what, he didn't get offended when I'm like, I can't talk to me right now, I'm done with me.
I spent a lot of time with my husband and our offices are right next to each other.
And I said to him, we've been together fourteen years.
And I said, wow, you know what, I'm so surprised, I'm not sick of you. And he looked at me and goes, is that like a compliment, like I and I go, yeah, it is.
The ultimate compliment.
I get sick of people.
So easy, and I really not sick of you. You annoy me sometimes, but I'm not sick of you.
Yeah. I mean so, just before this started, we've learned boundaries like I came up here with an apple and she had to go stand somewhere.
Else because he was chewing.
Yeah, like there, oh my god, that's my thing. Yeah, I cannot stand it. We have to turn at dinner time. We have to turn a little music on.
Oh wow, okay, oh just any.
Chewing, any chewing.
I have like that sensory issue. I can't stand people talking to me. I can't sit at a restaurant.
It's like the extreme bain and and it's an auditory like it triggers my anxiety.
That's how I am. I I will punch you in the throat if I have to hear you your coffee chew your food. And Eddie has realized that's just who I am. And my kids are like that too. They can't stand it either. So sometimes I got to get up and walk away.
Yeah, so I just walked. He goes, hey, cause you know we're about to log on you gut, do you want to come over? I'm like, I'm just waiting for you to be done with your apple, and I sat down.
There's no offense to that. That's amazing.
Well, no, because I've seen it before, and that's she was making an effort to kind of allow me to eat and and and so the least I could do
is say thank you, I'm sorry. I think, like just you probably know this tooth stammer, there's you're going to be walking on eggshells when you first get married to your spouse, and then you would walk on eggshells again if you move into a house with them, if you work in a job together, and working it out and like telling people, being mature and telling people what you want and what you need has been to me the secret to us like not only like being able to
work together, but I think actually enjoying working with each other more than we do with other people.
Now.
Yeah, and then it gets to like a year ten and you're like, why do you eat so loud? Why I never noticed this the first ten years, and now all of a sudden.
You breathe loud, You eat loud.
You need to stop the breathing. I know, like at night he'll take a big deep breath in. I'll be like, why are you breathing?
And you stop it over.
For him breathing Yeah, in the middle of the night. I'm like, I've done that to me, but you're breathing, yeah, and he's like, I don't know what to do, babe. I know I'm a I'm a pure joy to be around, so can intent if.
If people want to watch your videos of you recording pen breathing, where is the best place where I'm going to find you, guys is.
Online across all platforms. It's the Holderness Family dot com or the Holderness Family.
Let's sorry not dot comlum.
Did you find them on the Interwebnb?
Yeah? And yeah, that's it. And if you want to watch the amazing race season that we've been talking about, that would be on Paramount Plus and it was season thirty three and there were a lot of great people in that season.
Yes, well, thank you guys so much for taking the time. We enjoyed this so much me especially me too.
You guys are awesome.
Dived right into your Instagram. It was so funny.
When I first saw your guys's name on I'm like and then I'm like, why do I know this name?
Why do I know? Why do I know? And I'm like, oh my god, it's.
We need to let's do some back channel because I need to figure out this amazing thing. Yeah, because we're making this happen both of you, and I got to get you just.
To see you have a melt down.
No, I think you would. I'd have to be so medicated to be on Big Brother. I would just be a walking XANAX right there, like there's no there's no way.
I'm sure you wouldn't be the first one. Oh, that's for sure.
Thank you both so much. It was it was a ton of fun. I really appreciate it.
Oh, I love talking to you.
Have a great day, guys. Heye bye bye