Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I'll be your host, Emily Simpson with my sidekick Shane. I love how Shane always just has a first name. It's never Shane Simpson. It's like Shaer Madonna and Shane. Anyway, we're just gonna do a little update. If you listened to the last episode, we did a little tidbit on this Kimberly Sullivan case, which is the crazy step mom who kept her step son locked away for twenty years. Anyway, there's just a little bit of an update on that.
She the biological mom, which we were questioning before. Remember when we were talking about this case, like where is the Yeah, because it's the step mom that kept him locked away. Yes, So there was a USA article that came out that so the biological mom came forward and the biological mom is a fifty two year old woman named Tracy and she was who identified herself as the
biological mother of Kimberly Sullivan's stepson. And she said, thirty two years ago, due to personal reasons and for the full benefit of my son, she made the gut wrenching decision to give full custody to the ex husband. First of all, I just have to say, as a mother, I can never wrap my brain around someone giving away full custody of their children, regardless of the circumstances. I just I cannot imagine any scenario where I give up.
My children, unless it was a full blown adoption scenario, like a parent is giving away the child for a better life.
To go and oh, okay, no, I understand that. I guess I don't understand a situation where you're the biological mother, you have the child, but then you give up full custody to the other parent and you just don't want any kind of visitation or anything anyway. She said it was a painful, emotional decision that's hard for any mother to make, but she thought it would have She thought her son would have a better life, which is the irony here in retrospect, this does not come to pass.
For the last thirty years, my family and I have searched for him to reconnect, only to be turned away and shut out. So she claims that they had been looking for him and that she had reached out, and that basically the father and the stepmom didn't want her to have anything to do with the child.
Well, yeah, because she's gonna find out he was locked in a room.
Probably. She claims that the last few days had been so shocking, disturbing, and disgusting to even seem true. I hope him, pray we can all begin to heal and help my son to lead a full, happy, loving life. I know deep in my heart I have always been there for him and always will. Please grant us time, peace and respect as we cope with this tragic situation. So she said that she had tried to be in her son's life. She also has a daughter who would be the man who was I guess they never released
his name. I just keep calling him the man, but he's the step son and the one that was the victim, the victim that was locked away. He has a half sister, and apparently the half sister had been using social media and other online tools to try and find her brother for years, but had not had any success. Well, we know he's not on social media because he's been tortured for the past twenty years.
So you know it now.
It's kind of sad because these people wanted to look for him, and they were probably hopeful they'd have a relationship with him. And then he was in a good place and that maybe you know, he had good upbringing and now they could reconnect, now that maybe the mom is in a better situation, and only to find out that he.
Was you know, yeah, well, I mean, how devastated would you be as a mother if her intent in the beginning was really she did give up custody because she thought he would have a better life with the father who maybe was more She might.
Have thought it would be less co parenting issues, and maybe he could have some stability because maybe they were at odds, and so she thought, you know what, instead of me fighting this father all the time, maybe I'll give him a stable household and just let him go.
Yeah. But then to think thirty years old, I yeah, find out that you gave away full custody of your child because you thought they would have a better life, and then you come to learn that they were locked away, starved, emaciated.
Torture and almost couldn't have been a worse life.
Had to set their house on fire in order to get someone's attention and be saved. His half sister says, I just want him to know that he has a big sister, And I've always known he had, that he's existed. I've always loved him and I've always been trying to find him. I've been looking for him for over a decade. I wanted to wait until he was eighteen. I'm almost thirty five now. There was nothing, no social media, no court records. So it seems to me that she did kind of try to do.
A deep diet doesn't exist. And I bet you the parents deliberately were not on the internet.
Also, probably they were probably hiding this, hiding everything about this, this family life.
Now they're all over the internet.
Yeah. So, Kimberly Sullivan, who is the stepmom this step son. I don't know where she's at as far as a case, I mean as she was arrested, and I don't think we've had any update, right, I.
Don't know, but hope she doesn't get doesn't see the light a day, right.
So, the step son and his biological mother have not connected since this discovery, which was a month ago, but the mother told NBC Connecticut that she hopes that they reunite soon. I hope so too. I hope I hope that he has some yes, And it sounds like the sister is very interested in being a part of his life. So hopefully there is some happy ending for this man.
Because maybe he can get uh, maybe he can collect the insurance proceeds from the f fire.
He deserves at least that much. Yes, all right, here's another interesting story. I just want to do a little brief background on some of these smaller cases, and then we're actually going to go into the Brian Coburger case, which is the Idaho murders case. I just I read this and I actually found this. I don't know why I found it interesting. Maybe because it's a husband and wife and we're a husband.
Now.
I'm curious to know what it says, wife kills husband. I find this interesting.
It's actually husband tries to kill a wife. But oh, so this is Ario and his name's Gerhard Koenig. He is a man accused of trying to kill his wife in Hawaii. This just recently happened. So on Monday, March twenty fourth, forty six year old Gerhard tried to push his wife Ariel off of a cliff in Oahu on a trip that he planned for her birthday.
So they're not from Hawaii.
No, I think they live in Maui.
Actually Okay, so they're locals, yes, and so thanks for her birthday, he plans a birthday trips surprise, yes.
Push.
The couple, who have been married for six years and shared two young children together, live in Maui. Ariel told the story of her attempted murder in her own words and an application for a restraining order against her husband on Thursday.
So he how did she succeed? How did she overcome his pushing her off a cliff?
Okay, so let's get into the details of this. Gerhard, who is the husband, suggested that they take a hike on a trail near one of the local lookouts. In her court filing, she noted the topography of the trail, saying it was very narrow ridge sections with steep drop offs on both sides. He then won it as selfie at the edge of the cliff, but she was uncomfortable and moved away. He's like, no, one foot off the cliffs closer a little more, she said. That was when
her husband tried to push her. He was yelling something to the effect of get back over here. I'm so effing sick of you, and he continued to push me. She wrote. She thought he was joking at first, I don't know why I would.
Oh, so he wants to give her some last words before he pushes her off.
Well, he's mad.
Because she's moving away. She's not close enough to the edge, so he's yelling at her to get back over there. And then she claims that she quickly realized that he was not joking, that he was seriously trying to make me fall off of the cliff. She then writes, and this is an application for a restraining order, that she threw herself onto the ground away from the edge to save herself, at which point her husband climbed on top of her. At one point, she said, this is a doctor.
By the way, he's an antithesiologist. He grabbed his bag and pulled out a syringe and vial and tried to inject her.
He brought his medical bag.
Yes, wouldn't that have been a sign? Don't you think He's like, let's go on a hike, but I'm just gonna bring my my anesthesiologists bag with me.
Wow.
So, so he's attempting to inject her with something?
Yes, so too. Yes, So she's awesome.
I know she's a badass.
I should have pushed him off the cliff.
I do not know what was in the syringe, but Gerhardt is an antithesiologist and has access to several potentially lethal medications as part of his employment, she wrote in this court filing. Ultimately, the doctor who's the husband, grabbed a rock and began to pound her in the head. Miss Koenig told police that he also grabbed her hair
and smashed her face into the ground. Luckily for her, there were two women farther down the trail that interview that intervened, and they told police that they heard a woman screaming for help. One of the women told police that she ran ahead and saw a man hitting a woman in the head with a rock. He is trying to kill me.
The woman holding a medical bag.
Yes, a man with a medical bag and a syringe, close to the edge of a cliff on a trail was beating her over the head with a rock. They shouted that they were calling nine to one one and the man fled. The women then helped Miss Koenig down the trail. I like that he flees like no one's going to know what's him.
Hopefully they won't be identify my wife won't be able to identify me.
Police pull out an all points bulletin for doctor Koenig and shut down the area around the look at and trails during a multi hour manhunt. He was found and taken into custody about six pm that evening. In the interim, Miss Koenig said she learned that doctor Koenig had called one of his adult children. So he has adult children with a different wife. I guess he called.
They have a children together, they two, they have two.
Young children together, and they were married for six years. But apparently he called one of his adult children via FaceTime. Allegedly he was covered in blood and said I just tried to kill Ari, but she got away.
Yeah, can you can you be my alibi?
It's I hate that I'm laughing at this, but.
This is well, if she didn't survive, we certainly no.
But she she survived.
So I mean not she didn't sur write without any trauma, right.
Ms Koonig wrote that she is afraid for herself. Well, that seems obvious at this point, her children and the rest of her family if her husband is released on bail. His bail has been set at five million, and he is expected back in court on March thirty first for preliminary hearing. I find this case so interesting that I feel like we might have to do a follow up after his March thirty first preliminary hearing. I just clearly poorly executed, clearly not well thought out, or he underestimated
how strong Yea his wife is. I think he thought he was just going to be able to push her off the edge really easily.
So my goodness, all right.
That to get into the bulk of what do.
We know the motive? I you know, I have a.
I assumed that there was a mistress because when I was reading and it said he facetimed, I thought it was going to say he facetimed his mistress. But it wasn't his mistress.
It was but his daughter wasn't in on it or anything or there's no no, not known anything about.
That, not that we know of right now, although it makes me speculate because he called the adult child and said like she got away basically, so I don't know if other people were involved in this plot. We shall stay tuned and let you know of any updates on this case. But Shane is not taking me to Maui or Uah anytime soon. I refuse to go all right, all right, let's get out. Have to be more creative, Yeah, to think of something better than that. Okay, let's get
into the bulk of this episode. We really wanted to do the Brian Coburger case, which is the Idaho student murders. I've had tons and tons of you guys out there that have been listening to legally Brunette thank you by the way, dming me and asking us to go through it. So he he does go on trials soon. I believe it's August eleventh, So this will be just an episode of the background, the facts, the evidence, where we're at currently, and then we hope to most likely follow the trial
once he goes to trial. Let's do a little bit of the background of this case. Let's just give us some background information so we're all on the same page. So in the early hours of November thirteenth and twenty twenty two, University of Idaho students. It was Kaylee Gonkalvius who was twenty one, Madison Mogan twenty one, Xana Kernodle twenty and Ethan Chapin twenty.
How many lived in the house.
So there were five girls that lived within the house. Ethan was staying the night with his girlfriend Xana, he did not live in the home, and then there were the two survivors. So on this night, on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, there were four college students were murdered and they're off campus residents. Thirty year old Brian Koberger has been accused of the murders and is being charged with four counts of first degree murder and one count
of burglary. At his arraignment, he did not I don't know if you knew this, But when they asked him how he pleaded, he just he stayed silent. So the judge entered a not guilty plea on his behalf.
He should have entered it guilty plea. If you don't say anything, then you're gonna be guilty. Yeah, but it's and it would be easy. Then you just sent in something.
Yeah, but I feel I feel like that's unconstitutional. I don't know.
I wasn't talking about legality. Oh, I'm sorry, guys, clearly a nut murder.
Well, he is innocent until proven guilty, so we have to we have to stick with that. If convicted, he could face the death penalty and Idaho. Also, I know, I don't know if he read.
This method of death penalty in Idaho.
I don't know.
I didn't look that up, but I'm going to look it up. Okay, look up it's important facts.
Yeah, I really need to prepare myself for all the questions. I don't know what. I don't know what would it be?
Chair?
Electric chair or lethal injection? Aren't those the only two methods?
Firing squad?
They do use the firing squad.
You t use the firing squad. There was someone that was executed this month. I think I don't remember what state that shows the firing squad.
Oh wow, that's what I would choose.
You would choose the firing squad.
Yeah, well, I would choose not to commit crimes that are first choice. I've thought about this. You stand there with a blindfold. Yeah, right, you don't really know what's going on, and it's.
Just you don't know what's going on.
I guess you.
Don't see what's going on, right, Like like the lethal injection is there's too many steps.
I don't understand why there's.
Strapping you down. There's multiple injections. They you know, all this stuff and it's like a slow process to your death. Okay, firing squad, I go stand there, there's ten armed men that stand in front of you, or however many there is, only one has a bullet. I don't know how that really helps their conscious but yeah, that way, you don't know who did it. That's the same with the electric share. There was multiple, which is and you flipped.
Him and you didn't know which one did it.
Why is that supposed to protect the person firing?
Yeah, so maybe they have some conscience of well, I don't know if it was me they killed them, which is like, but I was willing to point a gun at them and pull the trigger. Anyway, it's just one quick shot in the heart and.
That's it and it's over.
Yeah, so that's what you would shoot.
Yeah, firing squad is now the primary method of execution, and lethal injection is an alternative.
See that was right, that's crazy to me, all right. There were two survivors from that night. The roommates were Dylan Mortenson and Bethany Funk. They were home at the time of the murders. There's a lot of interesting things are going with that. We're going to get more in detail into that so the events of that night. After a busy Saturday night out, all the roommates were back at the house by approximately two am the morning of
November thirteenth. Kernodle and Shapen, they're the ones that are dating, had been at a party at a frat house, and Matty Mogan and gun Calves were at a local bar. Then they stopped at a food truck. It was called the grub Truck. I actually was very interested in the food truck.
I know, I knew the food truck would catch you.
Yeah, I did for a late night snack. And there's actually video surveillance on the food truck because they I guess what they do. They put it onto TikTok or something like all the it's like a like a marketing a marketing thing for them. So there was actually very clear.
Footage of provide security. They might document in case someone steals.
Someone seals tacos. Come again, right, If I was ever going to commit a crime, it would be something It would.
Be sealing eating someone's it would be eating.
Somebody else's tacos. Yeah. Xana Kernodle briefly left her room to grab a door dash order at around four a m. According to court documentary.
You know, it's really funny that all these things nowadays provide a digital footprint like door dash, you know, ring camera, yes, door dash, even the food truck has apparently is live streaming or whatever.
I do know, honestly, I was thinking about this in this case because the digital footprint is so interesting on how they tracked Brian Coberger back to this crime, and it made me think it's really difficult to commit crimes now.
Well, certain crimes apparently you can push someone off a cliff.
As well as you're.
On these trails.
Everything here is going to be like modern day like tracking, right, That's.
How they got to Ghettle.
So the third floor of the house house gone Calvez and her dog in one room, and then Mogan was in another bedroom. Yet the night when the murders occurred, the two of them were sleeping in the same bed when they were murdered, and the dog was in the other room. Cernodle and Shapin were on the second floor, and so was Mortensen, and Mortenson was the one that lived.
According to the affidavit, Funk was alone occupant on the first floor, where the front door was Around four am Mortenson woke up to noises up stairs, and she told police she thought gon Kalviz was playing with her dog on the third floor. Then she heard crying coming from the direction of Kernodle's room and looked outside once more. From above, she then felt like she heard a male voice that was in shape and saying something to the
effect of it's okay, I'm going to help you. This is all according to the affidavit that was filed, it's not clear where the male's voice was coming from. Mortensen heard crying again and open the door. I think this is the third time. She opens the door, and this time when she opens the door, she sees a figure clad in black clothing with a mask covering their mouth and nose, walking forward towards her. Then she freezes, is what she says. She's just stand there shot and he
walks past her and goes out the sliding door. Mortensen froze and the person walked past her.
That begs questions, Well, there's a lot of which we don't have answers. Why didn't he attack her, right? You know, he probably knew he was covered so she couldn't identify him, so maybe, but but why did he kill someone not the others?
Right?
Maybe that wasn't part of the plan, Like she sprung on him and he thought, so, this wasn't part of his plan. He thought he already executed everything, and then he didn't want to improvise his you know, a fifth murder.
Right around four seventeen am, a security camera less than fifty feet from Kernodle's bedroom wall picked up distorted audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a loud thud. According to the Affid David, a dog can also be heard barking. Okay, I have a lot of questions about what happened that night.
The dog did not die.
Correct, No, the dog did not die.
So what did the dog provide a statement?
The dog did not provide a statement. I have so many questions though. First of all, let me just ask you, do you think he was targeting all of the students in that house or do you think he went in to kill one and then was surprised that they were sharing a bedroom, and then he felt like he had to kill the other one, and then maybe he heard some the noises and then had to go to the other room and kill them and then was surprised that there was a boyfriend there and then had to kill him.
And he ends up killing four people, but only but not with the intent to kill all the Do you know what I mean?
I have no idea how, but I know what he was thinking.
I don't know, but I'm just that's what goes on simplify.
You're saying, was he trying to kill one person and then Moore got mixed in them?
Yeah, because the two girls were sharing a room and they normally don't share a room. So my question is was he targeting one of those girls? Possibly he comes into the house, he comes in clad in black, he has the knife, he kills one of the girls, and then he's like, and then there's another one in the bed they're sleeping in the end, was.
He stalking one of them? Do we know that?
We don't know that. I did read that apparently Brian Coberger was a vegan and he frequented a Greek restaurant where Maddie and Kayley worked. And we assume, or I've read it somewhere, there's some assumption that he or allegedly he was following them on instant and I had read somewhere, and if anyone is out there listening and you you're more clear on this. I know that I have read
somewhere that they did find some DMS. Not that she had answered, but he had DMed her just kind of like, hey, what's up, like slid into I can't remember if it was Maddie or Kaylee, but had slid into.
Their Nonetheless, there's some connection.
He saw two of the girls at some restaurant that he frequented, and then he he there was a connection on Instagram to him and the household.
Right, So my question is, and I know I'm.
Into So they didn't go to the same school or anything, They had no other ties together.
No, he was he was a PhD student in Washington State, and then they were all Idaho University of Idaho students like undergrad and he was in the PhD program and criminology elsewhere elsewhere. Okay, First of all, I also have to say that this case, me reading this case and researching this case, I didn't realize how bad a geography I am because I had no idea that Washington State
bordered Idaho. I know you're looking at me like I'm an idiot, but I did not know that Idaho had that top part that goes up.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's like a chimney that goes up and borders Washington. Because when I kept reading that they were only like ten miles apart, these two college campuses, one in Washington State and one in Idaho, I'm like, how are they ten miles apart? How is Washington ten miles from Idaho? Apparently they border each other and I didn't even know that anyway. Back, I just had to throw that in there.
Legally, Brunette, it's not geography, Brunette exactly.
I had no idea anyway. Apparently he had frequently topography topography.
Geography is more like the rocks in the lands.
Okay, anyway, now I know they order each other. He apparently had followed these girls on Instagram and had DMed one of them a few times, so he knew who they were. I would be under the assumption that he possibly followed them home and that's how he knew where they lived.
Yeah, at some point I'm sure he did.
Yeah, right, If it was targeted, then he had to have done that.
So then back to my question was did he target one of the girls or both the girls? And then end up killing four people that night because he wasn't aware that there were so many people up at that time or whatever. Anyway, what's interesting is I feel like a lot of these gaps in this case will be filled in when he goes to trial. All Right, So at four twenty am, Mortensen started frantically calling her roommates Kernodle, Gone, Kalvez, then back to Kernodle again. She called Mogan, that's Mattie
Mogan again before texting Bethany Funk. Bethany Funk is another one that is does not perish that night, and she says no one is answering. Bethany then had also tried calling Maddie and Kaylee and Shapin. During that time, Kaylee Mortensen texted to her what's going on? The text message remained unanswered. Investigators believe the four roommates were killed sometime between four am and four twenty five AM. So basically there's the door dash order at four, then there's some noises.
They're texting their roommates asking them what's going on. Then at four to twenty five. I believe they know a four twenty five because this is when they catch the white Alantra on surveillance video leaving at a rapid rate from their house. Yeah, so he basically entered the home murdered four people with a k bar knife within a twenty minute timeframe.
Yeah.
I mean, I guess, well, it has to be I mean, I hate song and on two different floors. It has to be kind of quick because people are going to run, right, so kind of. I mean, he's gruesome anyway, clearly he's a nut, so it's not you, and I think, like, that's horrific.
I could never do that in twenty minutes.
But he had to do it quick otherwise others would wake up, call the police, they would run.
So I had to be executed really quickly.
Okay, here's my other question, and this is another thing that goes on in my head. There's four people. There's two in a room, two in another room. They had to have been so intoxicated that they didn't make a lot of noise.
I mean, I know it's college and this and nan, you know they're out getting isolated.
No, I mean they were out, both of them. One was at a frat The two were at a frat party. The other one was at a bar. I mean, clearly they were.
Intoxicated, okay, level of intoxication.
But I'm just saying for a man to overcome two girls and then to move to another bedroom and a girl and her boyfriend with little to no noise, I mean, the other two that are survivors, they don't hear screaming, they don't hear fighting, they don't there's not furniture being overturned.
I don't know, I haven't.
I mean, all they here is some slight whimpering voice.
I remember in the beginning, I had the prejudgment of, oh, they're probably wasted and they want some time.
People don't want to call the cops because they'll say they.
Had drugs in their system or pot or whatever. And the other one is they were just kind of not all there to be able to quickly react and they probably just went back to sleep.
So you're saying just the alcohol level on all four of them probably led to him being able to eat A loss one scenario, because I'm just thinking about the girlfriend and the boyfriend in the room together and the bed together, and if he slips into the room and he's murdering, he's got to murder one. What is the other one doing. I mean, maybe they're passed out they don't notice it.
I don't know.
I'm just gonna tell you. If someone is murdering me and we're in bed together, I need you to fight back.
I'll try to wake up.
Can you please get up and do something? All right? All right?
Do you mean save him? He'd probably beat the crap out of him.
Probably.
Yeah.
Anyway, let's get back to these text messages. So there's a lot of text messages going on between the two surviving roommates and the four that are upstairs in the second and third floor of the house. Bethany replies yeah, dude, wtf, with Mortensen describing some one in quote like a ski mask almost so she's so, she's actually texting the other roommate saying that she saw someone in a ski mask in the house.
Yeah, and I could see her not wanting to leave her room.
Yeah I would. I don't know if I would. I mean, that's pretty frightening. And plus, these homes are like they're designed for college students, I think probably, so they're probably like hallways and rooms are separated, not like a traditional home where there's like a new big front entrance.
And it's open, so I imagine.
It was apartment like and they were hiding in their room.
So the two remaining roommates that are alive continued texting back and forth about the man in the hall. There's a lot of typos because you can tell they're panicked, right, They're just like you know, Bethany says to Dylan, possibly intoxicated and intoxicated right stfu. This is after she tells her that she saw a man in a ski mask, like he had something over his head, forehead and little mouth.
I'm not kidding. I'm so freaked out, so am I. Then Bethany indicated her phone was about to die, and so she texted come to my room, which was below this is on the first floor, and then she texts run. So the defense claims in court documents that Dylan, ultimately, so Dylan is the one that saw the man. Dylan's the one that opens the door like three different times, and on the third time when she opens the door, that's when she sees the guy walk by in the
ski mask. Okay, then she's the one that texts to Bethany on the first floor and says, I saw a man in a ski mask. And she's like WTF. Then she says, come down to my room. Run. So then Dylan ends up going to Bethany's room and the two of them stay the night on the first floor together. They launch another round of calls to their roommates at four twenty seven without an answer, and we know, based on the timeline already, that their roommates were dead at
this time. They're calling them, texting them for twenty seven please answer, Dylan texts to the roommates upstairs at four thirty two am. Prosecutors have indicated that they plan to use the testimony of the two surviving roommates and want to use their text messages to illustrate the timeline of
the night. I know that the roommates aren't We know they're not involved, but I don't understand, and I'm trying to give them grace here, but I don't understand how you see a man in your house walk by you in a ski mask well, and your roommates are not answering or replying, and you go down to your roommate's room and you stay the night in the room.
I don't think the issue is one ran to the other's room. The issue is then Chappelle asleep.
No, they're up there.
There's a whole stay. No, no, the girl one girl went to the other girl's room.
Yes, stayed the night, stayed the night. Yes, I said, how long were they was till the police war notified?
Yeah, the stays the whole night. And there's a whole a digital background. I mean on their phones. They have it of them like they one gets on LinkedIn and then they're on Snapchat, and then they're on Instagram, and then they're back on Snapchat.
Writs a lot of questions like what the heck? Then they went to resume to normal behaviors. They just go back to their regular you know, Instagram and whatever.
I don't know. That's the part where I'm confused. And then one of them, I don't remember which one wakes up in the morning at seven am and calls their mom or calls their dad, and then calls their dad back, and then the dad calls. Here's my question, and this is another thing that will come out at trial, I assume because we don't know this, But what was the
conversation when she called her home? She she has a conversation with her dad at like seven or eight in the morning after an after a Saturday night out drinking someone, they see a mass man in the house. Their roommates aren't answering. Then she has a phone conversation with her dad. Was what was in that conversation because they end up not calling nine one until someone else comes over to the house at noon.
Okay, so clearly they didn't go into the victim's.
Rooms, no or yell or yell up for them.
Well, they tried to call them and no one answered.
But I'm saying, they're all in the same house. It's level. I don't know.
Why don't they open the door and be like, hey, maybe they just all kind of had their own space and they just didn't they thought, Okay, they're sleeping with some guy.
On the mask. I don't know. I don't know how what the dynamic is. Is that normal behavior for them? I don't know.
Is it normal behavior to see someone in a mask ski mask walking around in your house?
No? No?
All right, Well, we know that the defense is clearly going to point out that while they're not being able to get a hold of their roommates and that they saw a mask man intruder in their house, that they don't call like.
They're gonna get a discredit.
Clearly, maybe this didn't happen because if people saw a masked man in the home, they would call the police.
They instead went on LinkedIn and went to bed, So clearly chat and so yeah, is their testimony credible? Right, But there's more evidence.
There's a lot more evidence, I'd say, And I'm not questioning their honesty as to like they're just respond I'm just questioning. I just I don't understand in what world you see an intruder in your home when you're a college student, you can't get a hold of your roommates, you're scared, and you don't call the police. That's the part that I don't understand. But then again, I don't know. I've never been in a situation where that happens. So maybe there is some kind of fight or flight thing
that goes on and you are in shock. I don't know. A transcript of the Surviving Roommates nine to one one call was also released, and the transcript shows the case what it was at eleven fifty six, am.
Oh my gosh, like at noon the next day.
Yes, that's what I just keep saying. Yes, it was eight It was eight hours after the murders took place. That was finally called what time they wake up? No, I just told you. One of them was awake at seven I believe it was seven am and she was making phone calls to her dad.
She just stayed awake for four hours before she called, four or five hours.
They might have fallen asleep in there a little bit. Yeah, they for an hour or so.
I don't know.
That's why I'm saying the trial will be very interesting because I feel like a lot of these questions and these gaps.
Yeah, we're going to witnesses.
They're going to be witnesses, and it will be really interesting to hear these gaps filled in. What was the conversation about what was your mental state during that time? Why did you not?
There is going to try to poke holes in that. But there's still DNA evidence, yes, and there's his car roaming around the cellular usage.
Right, all right, let's get to how Brian was actually caught. So the DNA evidence in this case is really interesting to me. So they found a knife sheath that was left behind, and again the knife she is interesting to me because Brian allegedly shows up. He murders four people. He's a criminals he's working on his PhD in criminology. So we're not talking about someone that's.
I'm going to talk about a low level and experienced, uneducated murder.
You're talking about someone who's crime and crime scene is their passion. And I don't know how you show up to a murder you have You have a knife, that's it. You have a ski mask and a knife. And how you leave the knife sheath behind when that's all you're carrying. It's not like you have a purse and a wallet and a backpack and a bunch of stuff that you're handling. Well, I mean maybe he did.
He's also committing four murders.
That's a lot.
Yeah, it's kind of hard to maybe manage your yeah, multitask, right.
So the knife sheath on this k bar knife which I actually looked up an image of it. It's a big knife.
Yeah, it's like a knife.
It is, it's it's the knife sheath itself, says.
Usmc on it.
I had that knife and this house, like let's say it just bought one and I had it. You would quickly identify as what the heck is this knife? Where did you get it?
Why do we have? What do you need it for? It's not like it would just get mixed with all or other the kitchen knife, right, No, But.
I mean it's it's not It's not to say there's not a reason to have the knife. It's not like, oh, if you have the knife, you're a murderer. But it's not a typical knife to have, and so you better have an explanation for it.
Yeah. If I had the knife in the home and you asked about it, he's like, Oh, I don't know. I just thought it was kind of cool.
It was on sale, Like, it doesn't make sense. You would be like, what's the reason for this knife?
Right?
And I could say collecting, hunting, but I'd have to have a reason. It's not just you never know, I just got a knife. So what's his reasoning? Because there's history he bought that. He bought that same knife too, Do.
You know that? Yes?
And I was going to get to that, but that is more of the evidence that they have against him. They did find through his digital footprint he purchased the knife with the sheaf and the knife sharpener.
Were they separate items?
Yeah? On Amazon, and I believe he I believe they were purchased eight months prior to the murder.
Yes, that sounds about right, But I know that the Amazon account is a family account, and so there's issues with expectation of privacy from the others. And it's also well, who bought the knife?
But that's the thing. He needs to have an explanation for that knife. Yeah, yeah, he does.
You mean if he wants to explain his reason, Like if I'm at the scene of a crime about the times of the murder, but I didn't commit the murder, well, I'm going to have an explanation as.
To why I was there. He has to have an explanation as to why. Oh and the what's the knife cover called a sheath? A sheath, so the sheath? Does he have the sheath.
Or does he only have the knife or neither? So if he an explanation, here, an explanation for why he bought the knife, an explanation as to if he doesn't have the knie because he liked to throw it out right, he's hiding it's evidence.
Yeah, and the.
Sheath Okay, but we're gonna get more into this knife because there's new evidence that has come out recently.
Okay, we'll tell me.
Okay that this is why the defense is trying to suppress his Amazon his digital footprint is Amazon purchase because apparently after the murders, he was looking for a replacement knife because the knife was never found.
Well, someone on the Amazon account was looking for the knife. Oh, so the thinking is, oh, my gosh, I better have a new knife to kind of explain that.
See.
Look, there's no blood on here, there's no anything this and I have the sheath that's you know, and everything.
So the sheath is found in the bed, and the sheath has some DNA on it on the on the button part of the sheath. The knife has never been found. I've read, I've heard of thought. I've heard people say that possibly he got rid of the murder weapon and that drive between going yeah, probably because I guess you pass a river it's called Snake River or something that he could have thrown it into the river. Now there's new evidence that's come forward that the defense is obviously
trying to suppress. But it's that he after the murders, was looking at that same k bar knife. So if the knife is missing and the sheath was found, is he trying to purchase the knife again to say, hey, I do have it. It's right here. I didn't use it in a murder. I have it. It's in my house.
So that's what he was trying to do.
So there's that.
That's why I said you have to have an explanation for the knife or the missing knife.
He is trying to buy it, but did he buy it? No, it was just a search history. I think I believe it was.
A search history, and I don't know. I couldn't tell if if they could tell from this digital footprint if it was purchased, or they can only tell that he was looking at it in order.
Well, I mean.
Speculation.
We're speculating, and an argument could be made someone in the household was looking at it, maybe because he took the knife, and someone.
Else where maybe because the dagerating.
About my knife is missing. I'm going to get a new one. The son, did you you borrowed my knife? Did you? I needed to put it back? Yeah? Wow, all right, so just wait to you know, this is where I get it beyond a reasonable doubt. But there's so many coincidences where it's like this is not normal.
Now you're purchasing the same knife and yours is missing, and you're driving around these girls' homes.
I mean, it's just so not I don't know.
Well, he's innocent until proven guilty, but let's just keep going. Because there is DNA that's found on the knife sheath. The DNA in this in this case is really interesting to me because they ran the DNA into the national FBI database, which is COTIS, and they get no hits.
Yeah, because he's never had a crime before, right to be in the system.
Right. So it says the first investigator submitted the DNA to the FBI database CODIS, but when that didn't turn up a match, investigators turned to genetic genealogy. It actually has a name which is really interesting. It's called IgG. It's investigated genetic genealogy. And I think this is going to be something that's more prevalent because now there's all these DNA databases like twenty three and meters and these
heritage databases. And what they did was they took the DNA and because they got no hits and CODIS, they ran it through it.
They found family members.
They found family members in these genealogy databases, and they got a hit with the dad. I believe. Then I think they followed him because he takes a road trip after the murders are committed. He and his dad take a road trip in December and they drive from Washington, where he goes to college in this PhD criminology program. They drive his white Alantra to Pennsylvania where his family home is. I believe the police followed him or kept track of him somehow they knew that he was going
to be home in Pennsylvania. And then they go through the trash and they find more DNA and they make a match, so they're using this genealogy type of genetic DNA research. They get the dad, there's a hit, They find his FAMI family, They follow him to his family home. They go through the trash again. There's no expectation of privacy and trash, right, you put trash out on the side of the road.
It's not an illegal circh. I read something. Yeah, once you put it in the trash, it's fair game. But I think I read something that they use the trash service to go collect the trash because it was in a gated community, and I guess police didn't have the ability to get in or they just chose to have the garbage person go and like retrieve it, like hey, give us that trash over there. And so then the idea is, yeah, is there an expectation of privacy or something?
You know, I think that's going to fall flat.
But yeah, you know, I do know. The defense filed a motion to suppress or to throw out the evidence with the genealogy, and that's also going to be another issue. I know they've hired they've brought someone onto the defense team which is an expert in the DNA and the genealogy and all that, because they're going to try and definitely use that to tear apart but to.
Do what I mean, DNA's DNA. So what's the argument to be made?
I you know, because they're gonna they're going to try and say that they you know, didn't do the right things, They didn't test it enough. Was there tainted in the testing? I don't know, you know, but.
It was the DNA on the knife cover was trace evidence or trace DNA, meaning he just put his thumbprint and just left some DNA. It wasn't blood, so you can't It's not very easy to transfer trace DNA from one source to another without any other DNA also being put on there.
Yeah, so that's I think that's going to fall flat too.
I think they're going to try to poke all these holes, but I don't think anyone's going to buy it.
I do believe that in these preliminary motions they tried to they filed emotion to suppress the genealogy part of it the DNA because they were saying it was unconstitutional. But the question is, is when you give your DNA to these databases.
Is it public?
Is does it expectation and privacy remain when I submit my saliva for a DNA test?
Right? And I believe what the judge said is when you're when you're giving your DNA to a third party, there's no expectation of privacy.
No, you're in a freaking database.
Right, all right. Investigators then built a family tree of hundreds of relatives using the same tools and methods used by members of the public who wish to learn more about their ancestors. So this is how so. The FBI investigators then sent local law enforcement a tip to investigate Coburger. After law enforcement obtained the DNA from Coburger's father and later they got a cheek swab from Coburger, which I
assume they got a warrant at that point. At that point to get the cheap the cheek swab from him directly. I assume they submitted an affidavit with all of these things, as far as the DNA on the sheaf, the genealogy it hit on the dad, They got the you know, the DNA from the trash, It all matched. And now they got a cheek swamp from Coburger, and they found that there was a statistical match showing it was overwhelmingly likely that the DNA found on the knife sheath match Coburger's.
So that's where the DNA came to play. We talked about this a little bit, but let's just make this Let's just go into a little more detail about his purchases prior to the murders. The state has revealed new evidence. It plans to present a trial that includes a purchase record from Dick's Sporting Goods that prosecutors say shows that Coburger bought the black And I didn't know what this was. I never heard of this before, but I guess this ski mask he had on is called Bala clava.
It has an opening, fat eyes. It doesn't have like.
Two circles, right, So I actually googled that because I never heard of it before, and it showed up on Revolve. So Revolved, which I ordered from eight thousand times a day Carrie's.
So they sell a murder kit.
They sell murder kits on Revolve, and.
They have a good return policy. They have an.
Amazing return So he could have worn it, yeah, returned it that night, put it back in the box, put the shipping label on, and sent the mass back.
And I think one of the uh surviving roommates she drew what kind of mask he wore.
She did match that type exactly. It's that open, just like you said.
The one ninja. You look like a ninja, right, So.
The same type of mass was described by a surviving roommate, and she also, like you just said, in a police sketch, she claimed she saw a man wearing a black ski mask inside the King Rode home the night of the killings. She also said that she could tell that he had bushy eyebrows.
Yeah, which that.
Comes into play later because apparently he took a selfie the morning after the murders.
And does he not have bushy eyebrows. He does, Oh he does? He shaved him or something.
No, no, So this a selfie that he took the morning after the murders. I believe it was like they found it in his phone, you know, evidence that apparently he took it around ten am or something like that. He's like freshly showered, you know, just just committed the perfect murder. I'm going to take a selfie as a thumbs up, right, he has like there's like a shower head in the background, but.
There's a shower.
He jumped inaid okay, Yeah, So he takes a shower, he cleans off all the evidence, apparently allegedly, and then he takes his selfie around ten am I believe was the time frame. This is after the murders. He's clean, he's got his bushy eyebrows, and he's got a thumbs up. So I know the prosecution wants to enter this selfie into evidence to show to corroborate that she said the man she saw had bushy eyebrows, and here we have
a selfie up all close in time with the bushy eyebrows. So, in addition, investigators found a k bar military knife sheath, which we knew and though the knife itself is still missing, which we think possibly he got rid of it maybe in the river. Prosecutors say Coburger bought a k bar knife eight months before the killings. So we have the
DNA evidence and we also have the car act. So state prosecutors presented a map detailing what they say are the times and locations Coburger's vehicle was picked up on surveillance video near the crime scene. After reviewing several videos obtained from the area near the crime scene, authority saw the suspects vehicle later determined to be a twenty fifteen white Hyundai Elantra multiple times between three twenty nine am
and four to twenty am on the day of the attack. So, like we said earlier, there's ring footage of this car and they live on this house. The murder house is on a dead end.
So you're definitely not driving by, right, so it's not like you're just.
Driving by, you're going pass, you're turning. I think they have video surveillance of him doing a three point turn, and then there's surveillance of him at like four twenty five am or something leaving quickly in this car investigators found out that Coburger had registered the twenty fifteen white Alantra in Washington on November eighteen, five days after the killings.
So this is interesting because I was thinking, did he purposefully not register his vehicle in Washington, because in Washington then you have to have a plate on the front and the back of the car. His car was registered in Pennsylvania, where he's from, and he had no front license plate. So do you think that he I mean,
he's a criminology major. He's getting a PhD. So I thought he was thinking he was out smarting police by not having a front license plate and not registering his car in Washington.
Yeah, but you're making a connection. He didn't register so you wouldn't have to put a plate on. Amazing, Well, was it criminal you would just not put a plate on, Like all of a sudden, He's like, oh, I got to follow the local state highway rules.
Well, what's the what's his reasoning for waiting five days after the murders to then register his car in Washington.
I don't know.
I'm just saying, if you are meticulously planning a murder and you buy the murder weapon eight months before, and you and you purchased this ski mask, and you've gone by, and there there is I don't know if I already said this, but there they picked up on his cell phone where he had driven by this residence twelve times prior to that night. Yeah, so he's canvassing this house. And every time they picked him he pinged, you know, near their house on his phone. It was at nighttime
or early morning. So it's not like he's driving by because he's I don't know.
Business being on that street right in the middle of the night.
Right. So my point is, if this man is meticulously planning a murdery, is a criminology.
Oh yeah, but he still makes mistakes. He left the knife cover, I.
Know he made, like the most basic one. He left the murder weapon behind, yeah, or not the weapon, but the sheath he left it behind. I don't know. I was just thinking that the license plate in registering the car was probably some thought that he had that he was evading police in some type of manner. Anyway, that's just me.
But again, when he goes down. You also thought Washington and Idaho were far apart. I did.
I thought? I thought I thought Idaho was like I thought Idaho was in the southern United States, Like, I thought Idaho was down by Utah. Isn't.
Well, it touches Utah also.
But I thought it was below Utah. I didn't really.
Oh wow, yeah, no, way off. That's why I drive everywhere.
Okay, that's why when you're like I'll be home in ten minutes and it's thirty four minutes later. Where exactly, And then you're like, I need gas again, I'm like, already, I just drive a lot.
Yes, you do.
Also, I read that this is interesting. You'll find this interesting. Are you listening? Are you paying attention? In Idaho, where he's being tried, the state requires that if you're going to use an alibi defense that you have to well, you have to file that prior to the trial. I want a surprise, you can't do a surprise alibi, you have to file. So basically, defence has filed an alibi that he was driving around the night of the murders
because he likes to look at the stars. So basically what they've done is take the evidence that the prosecution has and then you formulate you turn it around and formulate an alibi around that, and it's their alibi is he was alone in his car driving around, But he does that a lot because he likes to just drive around.
This was in November.
I wonder if it was like overcast and stuff, because that would be easy to be like, really, there's no stars, it was overcast that night.
Well, no, he drove.
I mean he drove by their house twelve times between June and November.
Oh, so he's this dead end has a really good showing of the star. Right.
I love to drive down this dead end and look at the stars and the hiking trails. On November thirteenth, the suspect's phone was near his home in Pullman, Washington, that's where he's in the PhD program at two forty seven am, but did not appear on a network again until approximately four forty eight am, when it was detected near Blaine, which is south of Moscow, Idaho, where the
murders took place. Basically, what he has done you can tell is he shut his phone off between two forty seven am and four forty eight because there's no cell phone.
Data, which is more suspicious.
Right, So I'm saying again he's trying to elude police by turning.
It's like when the criminal wants to elud police and all of a sudden they got their car like completely detailed, right, you know, and it's like the guy will be like, yeah, he's my neighbor. I've never seen him wash his car in ten years, and all of a sudden he got a detail service.
Yeah all right. Or when there's a murder on the carpet and they rip the carpet out, your new carpet, yffe area, I just need a new carpet throughout the entire house. So anyway, what he's done is he has all this cell phone data right it's pinging, pinging, And then between the timeframe of the murders there's no cell phone. He turns his phone off, I know.
And it's like when people burn a house down to hide a murder. Yeah, it actually.
Creates more evidence because you can see that it was like an arson and it started over here and like and then it's like, oh, they use this gas can, then they can find out where the gas get was.
Bot I always like.
When people burn a house down to cover up a murder, but then they find the body in the house and it has like a bullet hole in the body and you're like and.
And it creates more evidence for them to find someone because now there's an arson case.
Oh yes, they just created it.
They create more evidence.
So here he is creating more evidence like turning his phone off, which you know, kind of lets you know what he was thinking or what he was planning, or where it was turned off and where it was turned back on.
So the lack of phone data during this crucial time period is consistent with Coburger attempting to conceal his location during the quadruple homicide. This is what investigators determine. Less than four hours later, between ninety twelve and nine twenty one am, Coburger's phone was detected near the crime scene again in Idaho, which suggests he returned to the area after allegedly killing the four students. This is my question. Did he go back to the crime scene because his
usually do, But why did he? Why did he not turn his cell phone off? Then if he's turned his cell phone off the night of the murders, so there's no cell phone data, but then he goes back the next morning, why did he not turn his cell phone off again?
He's he he could have simply forgot. He could alsop the crimes already done, so they're.
Not going to look at my data after I don't know who knows.
Do you think he went back to look for the knife sheath? I mean, what's he gonna do go in the house in the morning.
Excuse me, excuse.
Me, I left something.
I don't know. I don't know, I don't know. There's also do you think he's going to change somebody? Do you think he's going to testify? You think this is the kind of guy that's like, no, no.
I tell you he won't testify because well, first of all, I've learned that he's on the spectrum, and that's that's a defense that they that the defense is going to use for the weak defense.
You know why, Well, because he's a PhD mate, he's pursuing a PhD, and he's going to claim like I'm not all there.
No, I don't think they're going to use autism as as a defense. They're going to use autism as if he's convicted that they can't give him the death penalty because it's and unusual unusual punishment with someone too.
Yeah, well killing four people, and.
I get it, but I if he's autistic, and I do believe that I've read that he suffers with depression and that he wrote something about not having emotions and not being able to show emotions.
How can you be depressed if you don't have emotions.
Well, you can be depressed and sad. He had a heroin addiction. I mean, he's got all kinds of Yeah, he had a heroin addiction because apparently he was depressed, so he did heroin. And I did read somewhere that he wrote something online about not having feelings and emotions. And I'm just saying, someone like that, with that kind of intense stare, with no emotions, you can't put someone on the stand like that. They're gonna come off callous and cold. And he's got bushy eyebrows, like.
You're you're not put someone on the stand and it's not going to be favorable, is what you're saying.
Yes, I'm trying to say it and a way, Yeah, thank you for saying.
But he might want to.
Yeah, but the defense team at the end, well, I mean I guess that it is up to him. Yeah, I don't think he will. I think that they would talk him out of it and say no way right right. I do know because I've watched every episode of Forensic Files that when a lot of times murderers go back to the crime scene immediately because they like to they like to.
See their work. Yeah, you didn't have to watch the files to know that. Well, that's the maintain thing. They always return to the scene of the crime, right.
And I know a lot of times when police are investigating, they do a sweep yeah of the scene, right because a lot of times the fine.
Who's suspicious, who's acting odd and stuff, and they can or who they.
See repeatedly in the background or talking or being around anyway.
Especially if someone like him is talking to the Oh wasn't he like talking to the police when he got arrested too? And he was all like casual and askaying we should go out to coffee, and he was asking him questions about their careers and stuff. It's like, dude, you were just arrested for murder and you're just like curious to know about their careers and you want to go have cock with them to talk about things.
Well, apparently he had applied to like the Pullman, that's the city he lived in in Washington, Like he had applied to their police department, like he wanted to do some kind of research or something, or help them in crime scenes or something. So maybe he was just casually asking them about their job.
No, but that's what you would be doing.
If you're arrested for murder and you didn't commit it, then you're just casually making small talk with the police.
Well, if you were arrested for murder and you're in the back of the car and you did not do it, what would you be talking about.
I wouldn't be saying anything. No, No, I don't that.
You'd be cracking jokes. You'd be like, I didn't push her off the cliff. She annoys me, but I didn't do that.
She's always taken selfies.
All right. Back to Brian Coberger. So this is another piece of evidence that I know that the prosecution wants to enter. Coburger wrote in twenty twenty while he was a student at the Sales University of Pennsylvania this is where he got his undergrad degree and criminology, that they wanted to introduce this paper he wrote that shows the defendant's knowledge of crime scenes. First of all, he's a
criminology major. Of course, he wrote papers about crime scene Oh yeah, the twelve page paper entitled it.
Was not like he was a theater major and he wrote it wrote a script about killing four, you know, college students in Idaho.
I mean, of course he wrote about crime scenes. He's getting a PhD in criminology. I mean that's part of the scope of his education. But the twelve page paper entitled crime Scene Scenario Final used an example of a
killing at which a knife was a currently used. The paper discusses the many steps authorities should take to secure and investigate a crime scene, and details the equipment used for crime scene investigation, how to collect evidence, and how to enter a crime scene to avoid contamination, including wearing gloves and other protective equipment. He clearly missed the part about leaving behind evidence, though, I feel like he should have focused more on taking your crime scene weapon home
right afterwards. Anything that is fiber free, because you don't want to leave fibers and covers the mouth, hair and overall body would be helpful in avoiding crime scene contamination basically because you don't want to leave DNA behind, right. So I guess they want to submit this paper as evidence that he's aware of how to not contaminate a crime scene. But also it is interesting and we didn't
talk about this yet because there wasn't. There wasn't And they did confiscate his car and they did the whole thorough check up with nothing. They found nothing. There was no DNA from the from any of the kids, There was no blood, there was no there's nothing. So I don't know if he did some incredible thorough cleaning of the car or or he.
Wore like a whole suit or something. It dumped.
It was just completely covered so that there was no That means there was no transferring like a fibers from their house to his car.
Right, and he he killed four people with a knife. There's blood everywhere. How did he not get any blood transferred from these killings in this house to the car to the car?
I don't know.
You tell me that.
I don't know.
I can only picture he had something like full blown like you know, you know Beekeeper's outfit on, like and then.
He tossed.
That departed where uh yeah, at the end. Oh it's Wahlberg right where he walked to that apartment at the end and he's just covered from bad to do with.
A gun in his hand, right yeah. And then Matt David's character is like, oh, man, like, I know where this is going.
But the only thing is she saw him and he had the mask on. But I don't think she said she said he was dressed in black. It's also dark. It's also four.
Twenty morning, So I imagine she just saw his eyes and then slammed the door or whatever.
I don't imagine she like, you know, looked him up and down.
I don't know all. I just can't get past the fact that he stabbed four students and ended up not tracking blood anywhere and not having blood in his car.
I don't know.
Let's talk about what the motive would be. It's unclear if Brian Coberger had a motive or knew the victims beforehand. We did talk about how possibly he knew them from going to this restaurant. However, Kaylee Gone called us. His parents, Steven Christie, believe they have proof of a connection, and the minutes after learning Coburger's name, Christy, the mom says, we went online and immediately started googling. They say they discovered digital evidence that showed a tie between Coburger and
two of the victims. In an interview with forty eight hours, the Gone Calvis family provided screenshots of an Instagram account they believe belonged to Coburger. Those screenshots include what they say is Coburger's Instagram profile and a list of people he was following, including Matti Mogan and Kaylee Gonekalvez. Forty eight hours has not been able to confirm the authenticity
of this Instagram account. However, Christy Gone Calvez, who is the mother, says when they attempted to cross reference the accounts of Kaylee, Mattie, Xana, and Ethan, it appeared that that this Coburger account had interacted with Mattie's Instagram. You would go to Mattie's Instagram account and look at her pictures, and he liked them. Christy said, so he was actively
looking at the Instagram account. That's something else that I think is interesting that'll come more up a trial was whether this was his Instagram account, if they can link it to him in some way to authenticate it, and if so, then he clearly had some kind of obsession. I would say, yeah, that he found her online. He's met her at the restaurant, she was cute and blonde. He finds her Instagram, He's liking her photos, he's sending
her a DM. He probably followed her home from work one day he found out where.
She lived, Not like he went out on three dates and she dumped him and said I want to see you and then he got obsessed.
And killed her.
Yeah, it's like he never even like interactive with he never went on a date with her, and he wants to kill her.
Like you're obsessed where you just want to follow him and then kill him. Yeah, weird. I mean it's it's evil either way, but it's just weird.
Well, I mean he's a serial killer, so I know he's killer. He's not a serial killer. He killed four people, not a serial killing.
A serial kill you have to keep repeating the crime over and over. So you're saying because he killed four people, well then every burglar would be a serial burglar because they took more one thing in the house.
Oh yeah, I never thought of it that way.
Yeah, I'll start thinking like idea and you'll get a lot fast.
Well, you know what, he might have killed again, though, but he messed up so many times. Sad he was caught, and maybe he went into criminology because he's obsessed with crimes and he wanted to commit the perfect crime.
Maybe maybe and so and then he saw her.
I mean, I guess people do go into their career like to pursue their career to perfect.
Yeah. Like if I'm going to go to culinary art school, it's because I want to like bake the best pie. Right, yeah, so maybe he did.
I can't him a picture you baking a pie. I would pay money to watch you bake a pie.
I can picture you eating a pie.
Okay, thank you for that.
Pie? You know you like him?
I love pie? Yeah, key pie is my favorite. All right. The parents that we were talking about this is Kaylee's parents say the account that they found, this Instagram account of Brian Coburger is no longer active. It disappeared shortly after his arrest. What did he do? Like, how do you do you have access after you're arrested, you have access to get on Instagram and deactivate your account.
He might deactivated it before. I don't know. Like as he got arrested, well he got a ret you have one phone call.
It's like he can't call Instagram.
He just logged on his Instagram. Yeah, d x J whit out.
So let's talk about some of the defense. What's the defense going to say? First of all, without even going through this rundown, I'll tell you the defense is going to use reasonable doubt.
Because the defense us reasonable doubt. I know that. Sorry, no, but I was.
You didn't let me explain. Of course, they're going to use reasonable doubt. But I'll tell you they're going to use reasonable doubt because there was also blood found on a handrail that they did not test, And there was a glove with blood found outside of the house a couple of days after the murder and they did not test.
Why were they not test that?
I don't know. I am dumbfounded by.
Oh, this little button on this knife cover, we're gonna test. Yeah, but the bloody knife, we don't need to look into that.
Not a bloody knife blood.
Yeah, the stairway or stairwell or whatever.
Yes, I've read that these two other And also there was DNA found a Maddie's fingernails that come from that did not match coburger. So there was like her DNA and unknown DNA and then another unknown DNA something like that. There's like a three part mixture and that wasn't tested. I believe that wasn't. Well, no, it was because it was unknown. I don't know, but there's the bloody glove
and then the blood in the hallway. They did not test and for some reason I did read in some of these affidatas that they said that it was ineligible to be tested in codes. And I couldn't figure out why it was ineligible. I don't know. If the sample was too small, or there was some contamination.
I don't know, but I wonder if they didn't want to test it maybe, or maybe they tested it and didn't come up as the same, so they just.
So you're saying they just said it wasn't tested.
I don't know. I don't know.
I thought maybe, and I don't know.
This is just me.
This is me speculating that maybe they didn't want to test it, because then if it comes up to someone else, then they have to investigate that person. It takes away from Coburger, then it's too convoluted and they have.
The defense will probably come up with the you you didn't look into anything else, You had thousands of blinders, only looked at my guy because you had one little thing on him, and then that then you directed all the evidence towards him, and.
We know that happens. We know that happens in a lot of cases where you find a suspect and then they the police does a hardcore go after that suspect to the exclusion of anyone else that could possibly be involved.
Defense is going to be like, once you don't look at the DNA evidence on the knife cover, and once you overlook the my client gazing at the stars twelve times, and once you overlook the DMS, and once you overlook the fact that he bought a knife eight months prior and kept searching after the crime, and he bought this scheme mass at Dicks.
Once you overlook that, you will see that my client is innocent. And I urge you to look at the facts that make my clients all right.
In other news, in this case, which I was interesting, they actually did demolish the house. And I told you this the other day and you said that that's pretty normal, when.
Well, I don't know it's normal. I think that's probably not far fetched.
Yeah, when there's like a mass murder, I mean, hang going to rent that out to their college dents.
Well, I think there's sickos that would like to.
Rent it there would be, and then you'd have to disclose it right when you sell it.
Well, I think also maybe they had to demolish it because all these crime scene junkies there. People probably be driving by it all the time, like you, I would love. Yeah, now I went to the Meninda's house, I would drive by out take a road trip.
That's probably another way. So it's really just a clean slate.
Yeah. The off campus house was demolished on December twenty eight, twenty twenty three, despite mixed feelings from the victims' families. University officials said they decided to tear down the house during winter break to try to decrease further impact on the students.
Who live in that area the school owned it.
Kaylee Gone Calves's family was firmly against knocking down the house, saying doing so would destroy one of the most crucial pieces of evidence in the case. For a trial date was even set.
Oh well, I was just assuming they collected all the evidence and they got the green light.
Well they did, because I did read that both sides, prosecution and defense, both agreed that they could tear the house down because they felt as if they had everything they needed. I do understand the families thinking that I don't know, maybe there's something more than someone. Well, I guessed, and now they can never recover it.
It's better to I guess if I was the parent the victim, I'd be like, we, I'd rather preserve it just in case, you never know, right, I guess.
Now they don't have that option exactly. So the two surviving roommates is Bethany Funk and Dylan Mortenson, have largely remained silent since the killings. That's because there was a gag order on this case. They're not allowed to well.
Yeah, what are they gonna do? Go on podcasts in time?
No, they well, they clearly can't talk about it. They also had to move this case. They moved the venue, they moved it out of whatever this area is. It's going to be in Boise, which is I'm not sure exactly how far away. But I read that it doesn't really even make that much of a difference, because I think they did a poll as to how many people have heard about the case and knew about it.
Everyone know about especially in Idaho.
It wasn't I'm moving in to Boise didn't make that big of a difference. So jury selection is going to be challenging as well, because I don't know how you're going to find a jury that hasn't already had some kind of preconceived notion that Brian, especially with.
Us doing this podcast, everyone in Idaho listens to us, they do, and now they're gonna they're.
Going to know what we know and what we think we know.
Right, we've clearly cracked the case.
We've cracked the case. We don't care about the other DNA out there was Dan. Yes, it's he's a vegan. He has bushy eyebrows. His name is Burger, Yes, and he drives around at night twelve stars at the stars on a dead end stream.
I'm a criminal. I'm a criminology major with a uh A minor in astrology.
Exactly, I guess. So.
The two girls wrote letters to their lost friends, which were read aloud by a passer During a December twenty second service for Kernodle. The two girls got matching tattoos to memorialize their four friends, with initials of the victims' names on their arms along with angel wings. Many people blame Mortensen for waiting to call nine one one until the next day, since she saw coburger in the house. I mean, I don't know if it would have made any difference. I don't think any of them like we're
alive for long, do you know what I mean? Like if she called nine to one one when she saw someone in the house, would that have made a difference what they have and they have survived.
I think probably, possibly not.
But I think it goes back to earlier in our conversation, which is that's probably normal response to call the police right away, Yeah, instead of checking your LinkedIn account.
I mean, it is a normal response. But then again, I've never been in that situation, so I'm trying not to judge, but I just I can't get past not being able to get a hold of your roommates, hearing weird noises and seeing a masked man in your house, and you don't call nine to one one until the next day when a friend comes over. And I think the friend came over and actually went to check on the roommates and found them dead, and that's why they
finally called nine to one one. I'm confused. That's why I'm looking forward to the trial, because I feel like a lot of good, a better gape, there'll be a better timeline and better details, and they're clearly going to testify, and they're going to talk about what they talked about with their parents and what they were doing on social media and what their mind was during that time period.
So to me, that's really interesting. Many some even suspect that Mortenson and Funk, that's Bethany and Dylan were involved in the murder. That's a lot of people online, you know, those online slus like to to learn all this stuff and then speculate that maybe the roommates were involved and that's why they didn't call nine one one. I personally, from reading everything that I've read and going through everything,
I don't think that's the case. I think they just made bad decisions, and I think maybe they were overly intoxicated, and maybe that I don't thinkge maybe she questioned what she saw and thought I'll sound stupid if I'm.
Wrong or something. I don't think it sounds I don't think it changed. Just really any of the necessary facts to determine whether he was guilty or not.
Right, Well, do you have any other questions, because we have come to the end of the Brian Coburger case and the Idaho murders. Again, I'm very interested in the trial and hopefully we'll follow along.
Well, I have a question. Is he in custody? Yes? Okay, no bail?
No, I don't think so. So anyway, the trial will be interesting, a lot more details will come out, obviously, the roommates will testify, the family members I know family members are expected to testify as well, even Brian's family members.
Well, yeah, because to explain the Amazon account, right, because did you purchase a knife?
Okay, did you purchase a knife?
Okay?
Again, it leaves him. It's the only one that purchases right.
All right. Thanks for listening to legally Brunette. We appreciate it. And if you haven't listened to all our episodes, you can go back and listen to them. And thanks again. We appreciate it.
Thank you,