Australia Is Entering Its Rugby Union Era

Here at two Good Sports, we would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we record this podcast. There were innerie people. This land was never seated, always was always will be. Hello and welcome to two Good Sports. It's sports news told differently.

I'm Abby Jelmy and if I'm doing the intro, you just know that Georgie Tunney must be absolutely killing the Amazing Race. But I am joined by the amazing Catherine Murphy as a stand in mirth.

Welcome, Oh thank you for having me in. And Georgie she's got to be winning the Amazing Race. I mean her and Rob even their little fights about how to do it would be cute. They should just win the cutest couple in Australia race.

I was about to say, surely it's a popularity vote at one point and they just have to win it anyway.

They'll definitely win one percent. I'm just glad to be here while she's off winning.

Well, mrth you have to be firstly my Good Sports. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Obviously you're the ABC Sports presenter. You've also written a book with Zach Tuohey, so you're across all sport more. But how did you end up being a sports journalist?

Wow?

That's a crazy I feel like I don't know about you, Abby. I feel like it was all I was ever meant to do. I remember signing up for journalism in UNI and straight away gravitating towards the sports aspect of it. I played a lot of sport in Uni. I played Gaelic football really badly, and I was so inferior. I just interviewed Aaron Phillips today on News Breakfast, so I'm really aware of how I was never going to make it.

But Aaron Phillips is particularly humbling because she's played basketball for Australia and won a silver medal, as well as being one of the greatest, if not the greatest, in my mind AFLW player that we've ever seen.

So she's a duel code star.

So no wonder You're like, Okay, could I just have had one?

Do you look at her and you feel so inferior athletically? And I always think when I'm talking to amazing athletes like that, God, I need to go to the gym or do you close with health?

Yeah, do you have that thought process?

We work with athletes all the time. Ob you just look at them and I go, I just believe you're better than me. Oh yeah, like I just believe you're better than me in all aspects. And Aaron is one of those ones that I've been so lucky to work with in commentary. Not only is she delightful, but she does have that glow of like not many toxins into my body.

Oh my god, exactly her guns.

I'm like, I need to go to the gym, I need to lift things, I need to go outside.

And she's just the nicest.

Meanwhile, if you tested us for toxins right now, let's not go there.

But she is amazing.

Honestly, if I told you what I had for breakfast alone, you be horrified. I think I had chocolate for breakfast because they get a bred me. I know when they don't give you breakfast and you're so hungry by nine am and it's your lunchtime that I have been known to eat terrible things by nine am, which Aaron Phillips would never do. But yeah, so failed Gaelic footballer but always loved sport, and as soon as I got into my course, I knew it was going to be sport.

Well, that's beautiful firstly, and it's amazing that you've been able to forge your career for yourself as well. And you are our favorite, your Georgie's favorite as well, You're.

My favorites, and I just love that you're are offsiders Hostle Abby. When I got that news, and I got it earlier than I should have, I did.

Before my parents just quiet, like they told me I wasn't allowed to tell a soul and Murphy just sends me a sly text being like, I don't know, but if you know that, we know that, I know that you know.

And I was like, wait what, I'm not going to tell anyone. I had to do an investigation. And you're a real journalist.

You're sometimes when I really want to know something. And I was so delighted when I heard it that I did try not to message you, and the person who told me warned me enough to message you, but I had to message you because we're so lucky to have you, and I can't wait to be on the show.

Sometimes soon as I say when are we getting you back, I'm going to happen. I'm feeling like it's personal. You haven't look you're more of a Kelly goal I get it.

Oh my god, I am dying to come on the show. And it's going to happen very soon, I promise.

And one of the topics that we need to talk about this year is rugby, which is going to be a major not.

Rugby league, rugby union.

And there are some people that you have to discern that we're talking about the Wallabies. We're talking about the British Irish Lines tour. But as a listener of the podcast, you will know that we do a good sport off the top or a bad sport, and I'm going to lob up my bad sport as every account that designers to do an April Fool's post, because they got me.

They got me, Murph in a real way.

So as you well know, we do stories throughout the week for offsiders that we try to keep an eye across all things.

I sent a message to Danny, my producer. Yes we love Danny.

Simply just a screenshot of this exclusive DCE to sign a bombshell contract with the Reds Wallaby's debut for Bledisloe Cup looms.

Oh it Dane.

He was going to do a five year contract with one point four million dollars and I've screenshot it and said part of my French but holy shit.

Honestly, do you know what really got me is on the day I was very aware that there was going to be a lot of pranks online.

I didn't know what date it is. I don't know what date is any day, but.

The problem is on April second, because of the algorithm, a lot of them.

Obviously they get most pushed up.

Yes, so they're coming into your algorithm on April second, and I got caught really bad because I just finished News Breakfast. It's nine o'clock and your biggest fear is, well, your biggest fears.

That you sleep in and you're not even there.

But second biggest fear is that you miss something big when you're busy and it's really hard to always be across everything all of the time. So I opened my phone at nine am and I see a post that former Wallabies coach Eddie Jones has been appointed the Welsh national coach and I shrieked because it's believable. I mean, I'm still traumatized from when he was doing those zooms with Japan, so like, I'm ripe for the pecking. So when I saw that, I almost died. I was like, here,

Jones is now coach of Wales.

Figured out shortly after it he is not just to emphasize, but yeah, that is the worst.

Well, let's lean in now to our main discussion then, because we mentioned if we're talking about coaching, we're talking about Wallabies. We are still waiting to find out who is going to be the Wallabies coach, especially looking forward to a World Cup that we have in twenty twenty seven, and they're calling this the golden decade of rugby events that we're going to have in Australia.

Leading stop it.

Even the phrase is a little bit triggering after everything that's happened. For sure, we're going into the good years now. Sorry, well it's been the best any therapy, this will be like rugby therapy.

Well that's maybe it will be.

And that's why we always talk we I mean, did the Rebels expose last year on what exactly had happened there and you mentioned Eddie Jones and the saga that that was. It feels like rugby in Australia has been wading through the murky waters and has finally found its way into the light because things are happening. We've got all four of the Australian Super Rugby teams in the top six, we have the Reds on top of the

We are going to know.

I literally say any minute now. Was expected that it would be today or tomorrow. I'd love that not to happen today. We're but I'm keeping an eye on my phone. We now don't think it will be today or tomorrow, and more likely early next week. I would say right now, as we said here, Les Kiss, the Queensland Rad's coach, is well and truely the man for the job. But it's not a done deal. Nothing's been signed. There's a lot going on behind the scenes, a lot going on.

There's a process and Oliver which Philbore is one.

Of them, and there was more than two meetings. I understand with each applicant and they're all happy. I understand with the process. As we says here right now, it looks like it's Les Kiss, but there's a lot going on behind the scenes, so we won't know until we know, but we would expect it to happen next week.

I mean.

The problem being Joe Schmidt, who obviously is an incredible coach, and he put his own hand up and said, look, I'm happy to be basically the caretaker for this period.

But I've got family comments.

He's spoken openly about his son having disabilities and needing to care intend for him. So we have absolutely loved his tenure and seeing what he's done with the Wallabies. The problem being Joe said he's not doing any media until the new coach is announced, so you've got this gap in being able to promote what's going to be such an incredible tour in terms of the British and Irish Lions tour, which is only eighty days away, Murphy, if you can believe it.

Yeah, and I feel like I know why Joe was doing that, but I want to have to foot the questions.

Yeah, and I haven't spoken to Joe. But from the outside, look at this. The names that are ultimately looking to be successful out of this whole process, Les Kiss, Stu Lancaster may be getting a role somewhere. These are guys that Joe Schmidt has worked with and it's becoming really clear that Rugby Australias still want Joe involved. What's going to be interesting is if he is involved, what exactly is the title? Could it even be a director of rugby?

Rugby World Cup. It's just a ranking, doesn't matter as much. But much like world football, the World Cup is the beyond end.

Or exactly, and Ireland unfortunately haven't been past the quarterfinals. We're not discussing that your listeners.

Murphy just looked to the ground like it was solemn and that she couldn't believe that she had to admit to.

Because if I don't admit it, people will point it out to me in social media. So David usafora set up those structures. Then Rugby Australia managed to get him on board as a consultant in the new high performance unit which is now in place. Guess what he's working with the British and Irish Lions. And everyone was saying don't worry about it because he was just helping with some contracting. You don't go into a governing body and just help with some contracting. You get a lot of

I name that Australian rugby fans immediately feel comfortable.

With exactly, and so they should because if you look at the Brumbi's and they just are excellence personified.

They're always successful.

So they're fourth on the ladder at the moment, it's so tight with the Reds and number one.

Stop the count. Let's end soup. Yeah, everyone press the buzzer.

Let's just leave it with all Australians in the top six because it just doesn't happen.

It doesn't, and you know why it's happening, Abby, Yes, all the best players are now condensed into four sides. Boy, we'd loss of rebels exactly. Four great coaches. That for me is the reason we're seeing such great performances. And to have four great super rugby coachus means we'll probably have a great Wallabyes side because they're the ones coaching the players all year before they get handed over to

That was something that Eddie Jones spoke to when he was sort of listing the issues as to why the Wallabies were supposedly not performing. As he said that we don't have enough control over what these players are doing at club level. But if the club level has all lifted and the standard ass all lifted, and as you said, they've all got a leak coaching, all of a sudden you find those feeder systems which are so important to how we perform at a national level, are starting to

Oh totally, And you're so right about just the standard being lifted in every site, like look at the Western Forest just barely losing to the Reds.

They've had to win over the Brombies.

That's good coaching across the board in Australia and we need it this year, we really do.

You mentioned see the Western Forest, they're one of the teams that have collapsed. They're not collapse and Twiggy Forests came in. We've seen so many different iterations of Super Rugby, which is now the Super Rugby Pacific, and we know it's difficult to garner attention in the Australian sporting landscape, particularly when this is a Pacific competition, so you're not guaranteed to have an Australian team doing well or certainly

Yeah, and you know what, it makes me sad to hear you talk about your family all having Wallabies jerseys because I did. That's so unbelievable to me, because that's what I thought as an Irish rugby fan. I thought I was moving to the center of the universe when it came to Rogby, because super Rugby when I first moved here in two thousand and six, was the envy of the world. I soon started to find out, particularly in Melbourne that rugby players were not recognizable, even Wallaby's players.

It down, I know you're injured.

And then I realized no one else in the chemist knew they were, including the guys handing out the prescriptions, so they were fine to hide their injuries and playing sight and that really shocked me.

And how far rugby did fall.

Like you say, there is a huge opportunity, So Australian rugby has had all this money before, but they clearly haven't used it. Well you mentioned Joseph Suleihi, I mean, wow, he is so impressive, the global nature of fascination in him. I was really struck by it when he went over on the spring tour and obviously had that player of the match performance against England and him going to Dublin and I beating England.

Oh, how good? Like it was almost fairy tale stuff.

Fair right, No, but you always do as Australia have the right to beat England. And I find it really funny to watch a play out It's absolutely one of the biggest rival time.

Surely he was a player of the Test, which is just.

Incredible, incredible and unbelievably. Then when I was heading back to Ireland for the Test in Dublin, my dad was asking about Joseph. My dad was obsessed and I'm like, because Irish people are really, you know, hardcore rugby fans and just seeing that, I was like, this is amazing to have a name that is bringing that attention to the sport. One thing I really love about Joseph when I watch him is I feel like he really loves

Saying all along. I love it. My dad brought me to Wallaby's matches when I was a toddler.

He talked about his dad taking to him a game where they played Samoa and he was like, for my whole life, Like, you know, Unions sort of been what I wanted to do. Because there has been that speculation his contract is meant to be with options that he can opt into up to and over nine million dollars for five years and that money just simply isn't available to you if you are going to stay in rugby league.

But he's just like, I wouldn't move unless.

I loved it, and you can see that radiating off him, and even the fact when he was injured for the war retars he went and watched the women's side and sat with the injured women. Like there's that level of just good personness for wander a better word about him that I think is so important because you need people Alaya George Greens where people want to go and buy their guernsey and people want to buy Sulei EA's jumper, and that's really cool.

People want heroes and they also want villains. It's okay to have villains as well, but we need them. We need villains. We need heroes, like every one of them, even though though they're so bloody nights. Whenever I meet when I'm like stop making me, like you just stop it.

I don't want to have these feet, so please or thank you, just sit down.

I know. Oh and speaking of Joseph Sueley and the roosters of you talked about April fool ranks for this, oh what he did to So they set up a chat with him, and Dan mckellor's his coach at the Wartouse, secretly filmed him walking up. Don't know how he kept his straight face saying, hey Dan, listen, just another thing, what do you want me to work on this week? And then just another thing. I've been talking to the roosters. I'm going back there next year.

Yeah.

Also one more thing. I'm not sure I was gonna tell you, but I've been speaking to the roosters. I think I'm going back there next year.

Serious.

Yeah, yeah, I didn't know how I was on, I tell you, but yeah, I'm not here. I didn't know I was an ador, but I just wanted to.

So this is the multi multi multi million dollar man speaking to his head coach, and you just say to mkella like he goes white, like he genuinely bought every second of it.

That got me as well. I'm not built for April fools Day's stone.

No, I messaged down mccallar and was like, how did you not tell him to guest? Yeah, he said he was in so much shock for those few seconds when he believed it.

He was just like stunned.

It's actually the best egg Bril fools prank that I've seen.

So we've got our hero, We've obviously got our semi got an idea for who our coach will be, but we're just waiting to find out whether he is going to be less kids.

So the pieces are falling into place.

But when we look at this Wallaby side, what would be a pass mark for the British and Irish Lines tour Because and to give people context for what this is because it has been twelve years, so some people I go, what are they on about? The first game is on June twenty first, it's nine games across six cities. Tell us a little bit more about what this tourism, why it's so special.

So it is so special because in the Northern Hemisphere. Okay, so for anyone who doesn't know, the team is selected from Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales. The best players from those four nations get selected for the Lions Tour. Andy Farrell, who's the Irish rugby coach, is the head coach of the British and Irish Lions. It is hard to explain what an honor it is for a player to be selected for the Lions tour. You're either a Lions player

So you're not only playing against the best. When you get the.

Best together, those guys are desperate to play because they want to say they played in Alliance Test and when they get in that jersey, that coveted jersey, they want to stay in it. So you're talking about highly motivated individuals who aren't just like on the tour. They are desperate to stay in the side and that is so difficult for really in this Wallabies era of Joe Schmidt and what he's done in such a short space of time, that is not easy. That is an absolutely massive challenge,

That was really.

Important because there were certain former lines players who were talking down the Wallabies and saying the British and Irish lines shouldn't tour to Australia like they do every twelve years, they should skip it and go back to South Africa. That was really offensive to everybody, but I think it really helped the Wallabies beat England because it was the English former players that were saying that you.

Didn't hear that was the shock jock, Like, what are they saying? Just to make theirs and ruffles and feathers, and.

They did the Wallabies a favor. You notice that none of the Irish former lines said that because they're all friends with Joe schmidten They love, genuinely have a great relationship with Australia. So that win over England after what was said, that is really important.

Yeah, they made them pay where it matters. Yeah, they made them pay in a pack twicken them.

Oh and it's just one of those things that I think when you were talking about the British Irish Lines tour, there for me the only thing I could like in it too, potentially in Australian sport, even though it wasn't at a national level. It's like State of Origin, how coveted it is. And when those plays, when the best of the best come from different teams together, they lift again because there's almost this caliber of greatness.

Yeah, and horrid to believe.

Joseph Suwele he played State of Origin as well, Like it's just it's wild to think of how young he is and how many experiences he's had.

So what are your hopes again? Firstly, when you've got to watch this, what Guernsey are you wearing? This is the real question, Murphy.

That's a really tough one. Abby.

And I love my job. I love living in Australia. I love paying my bills. Joking aside, I really love I just love not being unemployed.

It's great.

It's just so handy cost of living doing a grocery shop. But I do love the Wallabies, and you know what.

It was, you don't have to by the way I actually mean it.

And it was a really weird time in Dublin when I went home because this the Wallabies playing Ireland on the Spring tour last year and I went along and honestly, the Wallabies are such a good group of guys to deal with.

They always have been as a rule. They're just delightful.

I remember when I was doing my internship at Fox Sports, I went to an NRL press conference and the guy basically grunted and was terrifying.

And then I went to the Union one and the.

Guy was like, oh, you must be new here, hello, and like introduced himself to everyone at the press back, made sure everyone had waters. And I was like, well, this is just a different caliber of person. But they tend to be like that, don't they.

The Wallabies just are so good.

Yeah, and to the point where, even when I'm in Dublin covering them and the Irish they're playing the Irish team, I so want them to do well, and you know, Irish people want them to do well because when I even admitted or I just broke down and told my family I was having these feelings about the Wallabies that I wanted them to do well against Ireland. And you know what, all my family and friends were like, everyone wants them to.

Chat.

It's like, guys, I've got something to admit now. You're very conflicted, so confused. You've got to help me with this.

So when I talk to rugby fans in Ireland, the reality is globally, everyone wants the Wallabies to be successful because for rugby to be successful globally, Australia needs to be great again and it hasn't been. And that's why everyone voted for Australia to get the World Cup because they want to help Australia rebuild and that's why Australia has this big opportunity. And yeah, the Wallaby is just great to deal with. So when it comes to the

I think it can be.

It's going to be difficult, but I think with the way or Super Rugby sides are going, I think Australia can be really competitive.

I feel like we need to leave it there because it's just such a positive note to end on. And we've spoken about a lot on this podcast and that there's been so many turbulent times with the Eddie Jones as you mentioned, like is he meeting with Japan? Is he not going to surprise he's actually going to Japan? Who knew everyone knew, And also just knowing what a struggling time it's been for Super Rugby with especially with the rebels being dissolved and how many people were heard

Wow, just amazing, and I should mention as well while i'm here, just really quickly women's rugby, oh okay, only four levi yeah is in Greek incredible and SEVENS just has that platform. But in Super Rugby for women's abbe only four rounds, we don't have any time to learn their stories. It's not breaking through. It's so far behind the NRL. Wow that women's competition and state of origin. Kudos to them. They are leading the way giving the

That even the women's team being part of the exhibition they had in Vegas, Oh that was so good. So they're thinking about putting women on that platform. Because you're right when you talk about the domestic competition for women's rugby, I'm ashamed to say I'm just wait when.

It hasn't had any breakthrough, and that's because it's only four rounds and they really need to invest in it. They need to make it a longer season so that we can follow the stories just like we do the men's competition. So there's a long way to go in Super Rugby for women and shout out to Obviously the Melbourne Rebels had a women's side as well, and it's now gone too. So that's the only thing I want to caveat all of this positivity with that there is work to be done in women's rugby.

And arguably more of a chasm than we see in most of our domestic codes between the men's and the women's.

Absolutely, yes, yeah, But other than that, it is it's an exciting time. Got a year ahead, what a couple of years ahead?

I'm going to I'm going to find a Guernsy. More of what I'm going to find a photo of me wearing a gunsy, please do. And I think that's where we want to come back to.

Is we just implore Australians or anyone listening just to get behind rugby.

Yeah it's going to be and a.

Promise that if you do invest in some kit, in some memorabilia, you are going to get cost per way down over the next ten years with the amount of tours and the amount of excitement that we have going on. Murph, Firstly, we love that chat, thank you, and we love talking rugby.

I knew that you were the perfect woman for it. But you've got a fun fact for us to round this out.

I have a fun fact that was inspired by your last episode, which was brilliant by the way, So you samboled oh's brilliant.

You've met him.

You're talking about how you've met him professionally and this is all great, and he did the rounds and media. I recall the time I met him in a very different situation. So this was years ago, Abby and my friend was living in Australia for a few months at the time, and she doesn't know anything about sport. A lot of my friends don't. I mean, what are they doing with their lives?

I don't know. I only see them when there's no sport on. I'm surprised that you have anything in common with them. But that's fine.

Yeah, there was that girlfriend that you need to call like well, also, even you feel like, especially when rugby is your sport, you still need to start podcasts like this where people love sport by going union league, different things.

You still need to have that conversation. So it's very much a thing totally.

So this friend of mine, Amri has, I thought she had very little idea of sport, but I was about to find.

Out ry by the way.

Yeah, hey, Amory, she lives back in Ireland and so we can talk about this freely. So I said to her, you've got her. When you're in Sydney, go to Opera Bar. It's just stunning. I know it's a cliche, but like having a drink there is just the best.

And if anyone hasn't been to Opera Bar, it is the single most picturesque spot you eat.

Very good friend for recommending it.

It's literally at the bottom of the Opera House, but you're looking back onto the Sydney Harbor, so.

You've got the bridge.

It's just spectacular on a beautiful day. It's arguably the most pristine spot in the country. It's different or one of the most.

If it's not the most beautiful bar in the world, I don't know if I can think of what the most beauty for publics, that's a good one.

We're happy to go on a junket if anyone wants to try.

I'm there, So Amory I send her there. Of course I'm late, because I always am, not for work but for everything else in life. And I text her ands out on my way and she said it's too busy, we're going to have to leave, and I said, no, it's worth it. We'll get a table. So then she calls me and says, I've actually got a table with two guys who were kinded of is gone to let me sit on the end of their table. And oh, that's so good, I think. I said, I'll get the drinks, you just hold the table.

Which is another that's an Olympic sport. Trying to line up for the d that's a whole different takes a long time. I come back. Guess who she had asked to sit in the end of the table. What do you even ask him? Not the friend, you say, bold, She.

Didn't recognize the fastest man on the planet. So when I woke up to the table, this is years ago, maybe.

Still in his prime. He's still Oh he's a ragining Olympic champion.

I don't think he's got to his central coastmar in his face that you discussed yet. And I walk up to the table and I look at him, and he looks at me, and.

I was sports jo, and you're just like.

Wide eyed, and he immediately realizes that, of course I know who he is.

And you've got.

And He's like, I know, she knows, she knows, I know, but anything. So I just went a Marie, I can't believe you find this kind man to help us get a table. Thank you, kind stranger. And I sat down drinking my drink looking at him. So there was music on. We all have a bit of a dance. Then everyone starts to see it's use same bold and from the top deck. Yeah, and my friend's like, sir, what So we had to leave because everyone else except my friend.

Amrie knew who he was.

The end, I just you know what, you just would give anything to be a fly on the wall.

Have you been all right? We've got ric.

And how much were you eyeing just to have a cone of science between you and your friend to be like, by the way, arguably the greatest athlete of all time.

Yeah.

And I also, before I would even tell her, I'd be like, how do you know? Do you just not watch regularly news or are you just shut off from society?

What happened to you, Amory? That's what I would have asked. Do you live in a vacuum? Yeah? She couldn't believe it when he was gone, that's amazing.

Well, I would also love to hear her rendition of that story and just whether or not his face was like, yeah, well you want to sit on the end of you with any general publications you don't want probably asking for a photo like hi Sarah and he's like yeah, all right, get the phone out and she's like no, can I just sit?

Yeah? Yeah? Do you know what?

She's the loveliest human alive and she's so yeah, she's so fun.

He really liked her. She just didn't know who he was, a very very fun fact. Murphy. As always, it is a total delight. You are welcome back anytime.

George would be so jealous that we've been hanging out without her, but thank you so much.

And again just a.

Joyful, joyful chat about Australian rugby and we want more of them.

Yeah, and thank you Abby and Georgie.

Good luck.

I know you're winning the amazing where she is who knows? I love your work on offside is Abby?

Love? Oh God, bless you. And until next week, everyone's bigger Sport