#82 Ellidy Pullin: Losing a Partner, IVF Struggles and Birth of Minnie !

Ah, another day, another bonus episode to gift our listeners.

Ash Yes, Matt's I love it and guess who we've got on today's bonus. Let me just play your quick little sneak peek if you don't mind.

Yay, guys, let's go.

It is Elodipulling.

What a bloody ray of sunshine she is.

She's the kind of person where you just want to be a best mate.

Oh absolutely.

And if you're not familiar with Elidie, she's the co host of a very popular podcast called Darling Shine, along with Chloe Fisher, who is married to the Fisher. So Elidie's a model, she's an author, and of course her mum to little Minnie Alex Chump.

Minnie is a beautiful kid who looks just like her father Chumpy. How she was conceived is something that is very unique but extremely beautiful. Ash.

Yeah.

In the middle of twenty twenty, sadly, Chumpy died in a tragic spearfishing accident off the coast of Palm Beach.

On that same.

Day, Elidie lost the love of her life, but her future as a mother was saved.

Despite the immense loss, Leddy has shown incredible strength and resilience in managing motherhood on her own, providing a loving and nurturing environment for her daughter.

ELDI faces the same challenges that you and I do. Matt, that's for sure.

Yeah, that's the dummy. Also a biting child as well.

Shall we get into it, Let's do it.

Welcome back to two doting dads and one doting mum. I'm Mattie Jay, I'm Ash.

And I'm Eliti Pulan. Thanks for having me.

This is a podcast all about parenting. It is the good, it is the bad and the relatable. And Ash and I don't give any advice. Led have you got any advice to give today? I know pressure if you do it, it.

Could be accidental.

And don't have a big night a few days before you're going to record, because I've lost my voice and I sound yeah.

I saw that story. I was like, was it Sunday night?

My wife goes, look you, I was coming up and she's like she lost a voice. I'm like, oh, it's not till wednesday. I'm sure it'll be fine. And then I think we spoke about it Monday. And then I saw a story and I think you were talking.

I'm like oh, we can work with that.

Your voices bounced back.

It has Actually, yeah, no, I literally couldn't speak on Monday. But I literally forgot that we were doing this. So you're lucky because I might have been like, hey, guys to cancel.

Well, you gave us a message a couple of days ago, and we thought that message was going to be the one to say, sorry, yeah, we can't do it. We're gonna have to postpone it.

This okay, this is how take a literate I am?

Is this the one where I was like, hey, guys, I've just moved to a new place and I don't have internet, So do you want me to hire a studio or something like that?

And your beautiful.

Producer Jess was like, yeah, so we're flying up to you and we're bringing our equipment and I was like yeah, and I'm just telling you I don't have internet, and she's like, we're bringing the equipment and.

I was like, and I don't have internet. She's like, and we.

Don't need it because I'm just going to press play and uploaded later.

And I was like, fuck you. I have my own podcast and you think I would know this.

You're always not in charge of the Wi Fi. All the tech is gear in your podcast.

I asked Chloe last night, I go, is that not normal?

And she goes, I always like, we always have to have Wi Fi when we record, but we're pretty it's random.

You guys have a good setup.

Don't mind me. I'm not sure if you're going to hear this. I'm being licked by your dog, which I'm enjoying. That's just tasting the smashed abbot from this morning. Yeah, Elidi, when you were a youngster, a little kid, if you will, what were you like and were you different to how you are now?

M I reckon, I'm actually I think I'm actually pretty similar to now im Like I said to my mum, I think recently, I'm like, fuck, why is Minnie so.

Annoying my kid?

Like she must have been having like she must have been a pest that day or.

Just wasn't stopped.

I was like, mean, he's so annoying, and Mom's like, yep, you were the exact same.

Oh my god, my dog's being annoying too right now.

Rummy, Sorry, I can hear her yapping in the background, but yeah, mom was my arm so she can keep keep the licking.

Going keep that pat up.

No, but mom was like she always gives me this look like you were the exact same, And I'm like, how annoying? Like I keep saying sorry to my mom, I'm like, man, sorry, because she also did it alone as well.

Well.

Her and my dad divorce when I was like one or something and we were full time with mum. So I'm like, shit, sorry, mum, and she had two of us.

It's not easy.

It's not until you have kids that you then look back and you're like, I am so sorry to my parents. I'm like, I put you through hell.

So much respect for them all of a sudden, like I'm so much nicer to my mom these days.

And my mom says the same thing about my son. I'm like, god, why was he shut up? And she's like, that's.

You, mate, that's what you were like when you're exactly like that.

So yeah annoying, Oh yeah yeah yeah?

Were you the were you the class clown? Would you say?

I was like I was always yeah, I was always getting what do we do about my dog?

Should I just hear? Come here? Come here, just sit here. Sorry? She's like maybe she needs to be on me. Sit sorry, Okay, I think she might chill now.

I was always the one getting sent out in class, like I was, And funnily enough, i'd like just for talking and just like my attentions, but I definitely have ADHD and I just can't, you know, get And.

Then I'd get sent out of class.

And I remember a few times in primary school I'd get sent out and I'd look to the classroom next to me, and my brother would.

Also be sitting outside looking at it. You're like, fuck not again.

So growing up, did you always think I want to be a mom, I want to have a family.

Yes, I always wanted kids.

I think I thought I was probably more maternal than what I actually am.

Like, I am such a touch person.

I love cuddles and I'm like super warm and friendly and like fuzzy and shit. But like sometimes with Mini, I'm like, get off me. I'm so done with being touched sometimes. Nah, that newborn phase is everything. And yeah, I think I grew up like around kids a lot, And yeah, I always knew I wanted to be a mum.

I think it's a big difference so between like being young and thinking you want to have a big family and then you actually start having kids, and you're like, holy shit.

Why am I so tired all the time. It's like I.

Think a lot of kids when they're like in primary school or whatever, they always look to their teachers.

And they're like, one day, I want to be a school teacher.

Like I definitely had that, and now I'm like, I could not think of anything fucking worse way to do it.

I dropped Minnie off and I'm like, catch you later.

You would laugh. I know sometimes when I when I pick up the kids from daycare, I'm like, I just feel like I should give them a hug.

It's going to be okay. They're all real young and sprightly. Most of the time. They're like in the early twenties. I find then there's like the odd older one who's just cranky.

It's just cranky. Now I get it around twenty of them every day.

Yeah.

No, people always say that the kind of cliche. You know, when you stop trying to find someone, you know, when you put that to the back of your mind, that's when you'll meet the person for yourself. Were you in a phase when you met Chumpy? Were you like I'm looking for someone, or were you just like, no, running your own, enjoying your life.

Yeah.

See, I was like twenty or like just turning twenty, and I was so young and like I always wanted kids, but I wasn't like frothing to have them at twenty one.

I was like, yeah, five years or whatever.

So I was just so keen to just be like in love and run around the world and.

Just like travel and have fun, and like kids was not on my mind.

Then.

Did you want to be in a relationship when you're yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was like, I'm I love this guy, like I'll be I want to be with him forever.

Hopefully this is the guy I'm with. Hopefully this is the guy I do have kids with.

But I was like, we need to go spend so many years having fun first, you know. But we did start trying for our baby when I was like twenty six, so we moved up to the gold Coat. We spent like five years down in Sydney and then moved up here when I was about twenty six. And as soon as we bought this hot like my house up here that I'd just sold where he started trying for a baby, we got a dog and we were all like, yay, this is out the next like chat date.

Who approached the conversation first of like, let's have kids. Yeah.

I think I was probably keen like a year earlier to start trying, and he was really career focused and he had seen like his best mate have babies while also snowboarding, because Chump was a snowboarder who traveled the world snowboarding and he'd seen his best mate do that, and he was like, I just if I'm having a kid, I want to be full time.

He was away like a lots at a time because of.

Winter and seasons.

Yeah, he was always like, if we're having kids, I want to be one hundred percent like retire and fully like on you and the kid and not traveling and stuff. So yeah, we were trying up until like he was like, we're new full pregnant, that's when I'll retire kind of thing. So so yeah, but he was like getting to the tail end of his career anyway, and he was ready ready to retire.

So we were like, just yeah, having a crat.

So I just want to tell us a little bit about where you met Chumpy and how you felt when you first met it.

Yeah, yeah, okay, so you're Worrywood my dad lived in Worrywood. I also grew up in Worrywood, but my mom lived in Narraban, which is a suburb next to Oriwood. So I would like, me and my bro would like have dinner at mom's and we lived with our stepdad at the time, and then we'd have dinner, and then I'd literally go for a run at night to my dad's, go see him, have like dessert with him or whatever, and then run back. That's how close my families lived like in the suburbs next to each other.

Chump, he was coming to Sydney a lot.

He's from Victoria, but he was coming to Sydney a lot to train with that Nate that I was telling you about before.

He's best friend from.

Snowboarding, because I grew up with Nate. He lived in Mona Vale and like the next suburb over again. Chump was kind of in peripher all like circles. Like we had like a big girl group and there was a big guy. We always just hung in the same circles. We always knew each other. He actually always had a girlfriend who was overseas in Bulgaria and I yeah, so he already did long distance and.

Break up already.

Yeah, well I didn't even know howd a girlfriend actually it was like a fan. Well, no, they were in a serious, really nice, beautiful relationship, but she was like overseas, so he'd always come back. We'd be like, oh, that hot snowboarder guy's back kind of thing. But I always had a boyfriend too, So then me and him broke up. And then yeah, it was Laura en Ofver's twenty first birthday,

As people say opposites attract, but you guys opposite.

Or we're opposites. We are opposites for sure.

He's a very like i'd say, really smart, got his head on his shoulders, driven kind of careery, kind of like I on the prize, like very focused and perfectionist vibe. And I'm really blase, like whatever goes goes, like I'm cruising. I'm not thinking too hard. I'm not thinking too hard about tomorrow. I think about that tomorrow morning, like you know what I mean. It works because he definitely made

Get my shit together a bit. And then I definitely made him go.

Fucking alas, like have a drink and have a lot, Like he was like always chilling and happy, but like loosener.

Yeah, like you know, and I think a lot.

Of people think typical snowbody is probably.

A bong head, probably just probably just like.

People just thought he was like yeah, just hell cruisy and just like this athlete, just a hell grungy dude, like a dude do.

And he's not that at all.

More intelligent, super super intelligent, like doesn't switch off super forward thinking business.

I'd say, when.

It comes to trying for kids, apparently I don't know this, but it does pay to adhere to a schedule, Yes, to try it certain times of the month. Who was leading the charge anybody? Yeah, it's all over it.

He wants to know who was ovulating.

He was definitely in check with like all right, what's happening now? Like what day are we up to?

And shit, and like he was really excited to be like I'm coming home.

I have in my head.

I actually don't think this is true, but I feel like.

This is just maybe.

I'm like not, I'm not someone that thinks about sex twenty four fucking seven, I'm not.

I'm actually not like that.

Yeah, I feel like guys do, like some a lot of guys do. He'd just always be like, fuck, yeah, are you on?

Like are you? Like?

Are we on this week? Like I'm coming home and I'm like, fucking oath, We're on, Like I can't wait to see you. Let's just bang.

But like on on those particular weeks, he'd be extra.

Stoked, you know yeah, and then I'd be like after that, fuck and I need a don't come here, you're going back over nah?

Nah?

I mean like that's the beauty of long distance, right. It's funny because if I get into another relationship ever one day, I don't really want long distance, but I do look back and just absolutely love the whole like, oh my god, they are away, you miss them, You're fucking lusting for them, and they get back, You're like, fuck yeah, Like I can't wait to just like hug and ship and see you.

It's exciting.

Yeah, it always exciting.

You're canning down. It's almost like, you know, yeah, the adult Christmas were like I get to see them in a week and two nights and then you have a little window together. Yeah. Sometimes I mean now like Laura and I will be on the couch and I'll just be scrolling on my phone, yeah, because we're just you know.

Yeah, yeah, definitely, you definitely cherish the time that you have with each other, and you're like, you know, they're going in three days, You're not.

You're like fucking making the most of it.

Yeah, and then you're crying at the airport, but then you're like actually loving this space, get to get piece with the girls and just half my moment and coming back.

Yes, how long were you trying for until you're like, oh, why isn't it happening?

Yeah, so we were nearly we were trying for nearly a year, but I'd already been on the forefront and going to my doctor going I mean, I reckon heaps. The chicks think this, Oh my god. As soon as I go off the pill, We're just going to fall pregnant straight away.

So like yeah, I was like, yeah, so I was like four months in. Why the fuck am I not pregnant yet? So go to the doctor.

We do my am H testing, which we talk about a lot of Yeah, so this is a you guys have lots of girl listeners. Yeah, yeah, Okay, we talk about this is really helpful on our podcast.

We talk about this a lot.

So if you're a young girl you want to start trying for a baby and it's not working or whatever, get this tested as early on as you can. And a lot of doctors don't just do it. You kind of really have to ask. So it's called getting your am H tested, and they're your it's like your amount of eggs or your level of eggs.

OK.

So we got mind tested and you have to do the blood test at a certain time in your cycle or whatever. And it showed that I So I was like twenty six or seven at the time, and my AMH was really low. The number was like two or three, which it probably should have been like fifteen, and it was on the scale. It was showing that I was like close like my biological whatever was close to me being like thirty eight or something rather than like twenty

Strange.

She was like, you know what, keep trying till the rest of the year and then let's start thinking about freezing your eggs. You're still really young, but let's start thinking about doing IVF and freezing them.

And shit.

Then but Chump passed away like a month later, after we found out that my egg count was low. So I yeah, I did go on and do IVF and like have his baby later. But yeah, I didn't really imagine i'd be doing that. I I did think i'd be doing IVF, but I didn't think i'd be doing it alone.

Yeah, Okay, you mentioned Chump passing, and I do want to say I'm sorry. It's it's when when you hear about your story, you're like, fucking breaks my heart. Yeah, it's so tragic. One of the really unique things about your story is that in a moment where you're dealing with unimaginable grief, you're then trying to digest that, but then at the same time, this idea pops up that hey, maybe we can extract sperm. Who had that idea?

Yeah, So I think someone said to me, like like pretty early on, like fuck, maybe you're pregnant right now, and like, I don't know. I just I think that just went completely over my head. I was like, I don't know, Chump's just like not alive right now. That's the weirdest thing ever, Like I don't know it. Like in the first, like yeah, like probably like on the day, on the day, perhaps, yeah, Like I don't know, everyone

Like you know, it was like that. So the girl's like, fuck, what if you're pregnant?

And I'm like, oh, just what a weird fucking thought, Like I still don't even believe that jump He's not here and it's been nearly four years.

Like it was just such a state of shock.

But my friend Laura Ane, who we actually met at her party, I was just telling you about she had heard of her friend's partner passing and her friends saying overseas, this was a story that happened overseas, and her friends saying, I wish I got his sperm so that we could have more babies because they she was pregnant when he passed and stuff, and she wanted more. And so she said to my mum and my brother and Chloe, Hey,

But you know, this is the first story, like crazy, Hey, yeah, not the first time hearing it out of your mouth, but yeah, the first story I've heard where you could do that.

I never would never think.

So fucking bizarre. Like soa, my mom and Chlau started contacting the this is like they had literally flowed to the idea with me, and I was like, not in any state to be talking to, but I literally was. They were like, do you want us to look into it? It was kind of just like I don't. I just said, yeah, I don't know, fuck go away, like yes whatever.

Did you know that time was so important?

No?

I didn't know at the time. I was just like, yeah, I don't know, Like what are we even talking about right now? Like I've just died, like such a do you know what.

My friend Laura?

Yes, So Laura had mentioned the idea, and then Chloe and my mum were like, what the fuck are you talking about?

That's so weird. Like no, they kind of like were like just shut up, like just brush it.

And then she was like she kept pushing and she was like no, no, this is like yeah, and.

I don't want to. Oh, you guys to regret this later, and you have to do it now. This is the story that.

I know later. I wasn't privy to this these conversations at the time.

You know, I've met Laura before.

Yeah, it's so crazy for her, like just having a place of mind to go, Okay, well everyone's grieving for the loss of someone here and then to go. But there's something that we could get out of this. I know for me, i'd be like, should I say anything?

It's so brave of her to say something.

And it's so admirable as well. Actually, because she was a really close friend of Chumps. The loss of Chump really affected her. So for her to switch into this like no, this is like almost just being so realistic and having to I don't know, have those conversations, and I think she knows me so well and was like, you guys are trying for a baby.

I think this is something you should do.

And she was really pushing for it, knowing that if we didn't do it now, it's something I could regret later.

Like I just couldn't imagine if my kid wasn't here, what the fuck?

But your family started then making the phone calls and started digging around to see like the process of how it happened.

Yes, so like.

Chump's family was in town too, and we're all like, yeah, I don't know, like yes, just have a look into it kind of thing. And then Chloe and my mum started making calls. So there was this lawyer that they called. They happened to call and he had Weirdly, there was like one other case maybe there's a few, but there was one in other case recently ish in Australia, in Queensland that this had happened. The guy had died and Aila Creswell is the story. I googled it and stuff.

Now we were chatting to him. It was like, yeah, I've just done this.

It's like this weird, so weird.

Yeah, why do you need a lawyer? Can you give consent as.

The partner or Chumpy's parents also had to sign something too, from I think from memory, yes, So the lawyer had to just put in paperwork stuff, and then for the coroners to go in and like actually do the procedure.

They must cover a whole bunch of differences.

Yes, in case something really bad happens to you or something really bad happens in the process, and then there's there can be you know, the family can feel short change here or there or whatever it might be. So I'm sure having a solicitor involve is probably the best way forward to.

Get everyone consent in one place. Too.

I'm not so all over the legalities.

I feel like this question comes up a lot and I really should know, and I just fucking don't.

I'm just trying to know about it.

It's like, she's here, you're not taking her away, and that's that I don't care about.

One of the crazy things is that they say the window is about thirty six hours. Yes, did you know the exact time?

Not really.

I remember the doctor who actually was having a day off that day and Chloe was cold calling doctors and the receptionist.

Was like, there's this.

This was like the fifth doctor she'd called, by the way, And the receptionist like, he's not in today, but this is really interesting thing that you're asking me, and he loves learning, so I'm going to ask him.

Blah blah. He came in on his day off.

It was actually nighttime that night, and he went into the coronie and with the morgue and stuff, and anyway, did the procedump on the yeah, in the thirty seventh hour, and he I remember him saying, time's so sensitive, you have to legally do it within a certain amount of hours.

Wow, fun facts, guys, I know.

And I know like it was such like a turbocharge couple of days. Obviously, with everything happening on, your emotions are high and low everywhere. I can't imagine. Do you remember in that moment how that made you feel? That that had distracted it? And he had said I have a good feeling about this.

Honestly, at the time, I wasn't thinking babies anymore.

I was just like, what the fuck? How am I going to survive this day?

And tomorrow and the next day, Like every day at that point felt like a freaking mountain mount Everest that I had to climb to like survive and go to bed that night and figure out how I was going to sleep that night. Like those early days, you're not thinking. I was like proper in so much shock. I was actually just not thinking honestly, for like six months.

How long was it before you thought, okay, well and like, excuse my ignorance here, but you have to go into the clinic. I'm mashine, do you have to have they already got eggs already?

Oh, they didn't have eggs.

So it was about six months after he passed away, and like I think, I just woke up one day. I guess the idea that we had his sperm was always somewhat in the back of my head, but like, actually not. I don't think I really thought I was going to go through with it alone. But one day I just woke up and felt so strongly about it.

I was like, you know what, let's make the appointment.

Let's chat to this IVF guy and just see how that feels. And I went in there with my mum and he was like I remember for him saying. I think he said something like it'll probably be a thirty percent chance that will pull this off kind.

Of thing, and I don't know. I went away.

We thought about it, and I think it just felt right. So he passed away in July twenty twenty. December twenty twenty, I did my first transfer and then I was actually down in hat Head with some friends for New Year's Eve, and yeah, I had I had the transfer in me and I actually missed like no, I don't want to

He's like just gone, like I'm lead him behind.

And then I was like, I've also lost this baby, and I just like I really thought this, this is gonna happen.

So Baby's gone.

That had gone out of my life, and then New Year was starting, Chump wasn't here.

I was like, what the fuck is life? And like I was so down. I couldn't tell you how you get out of it.

You just have to get on with it and put one foot food and like.

There's just no option.

You just got to keep going, like you just you just have to get through each day.

Some days feel like they go on forever.

I used to get scared for nighttime because I'd be like, how am I going to sleep? Got back from hat Head and I was like, cool, doctor, it didn't work out my periods here, what happens?

Should we try again? Blah blah? He advised.

I was like, I was very much like, let's just keep going. Let's chuck the next embryo in. I had three, so I'd already done one. I was like let's just keep going. I don't want to waste any time, Like I need something to fucking look forward to in life. Right now, I'm not good and he was like, you need a month off rebalance your hormones, sought yourself out, like go, I don't know whatever. And that pissed me off listening to him, but it was probably the best

And yep, nine months later, Mini came out. It was a girl.

I didn't find out it was a girl. Found out when I had her in the birthing suite. Everyone said she was going to be a boy, and yeah she was a girl, and I knew she. I was like, I bet this is a girl. Like I need to disagree with Like I kind of wanted to be different because everyone was like, it'll be a little chumpy, and I think they wanted it to be a little chumpy, and I was like, nah, he's going to give me a little best friend.

What was your pregnancy life?

Do you remember anything about it that you thought, oh, fucking I hate this part of it, or something you really loved about it.

I Chloe, my best friend's pregnant at the moment right now, and she's just like, get this thing out of me, and I'm like, it makes me keep thinking back to my pregnancy, and I'm.

Like, did you have any cravings?

Yeah?

Yeah, I just ate so much just chocolate, just cheesy my scrollsese Reggie chocolate. I was real sweet and savory. I wasn't really one or the other. Oh and Parsley and like randomly just really Parsley from the like literally just fighting into it like a bloody like.

Like a horse.

How are you and Parsley? Now, I love.

Parsley, but yeah, well I don't eat it like a horse anymore. But but I look, I think I was pretty lucky.

I vomited a lot in the start.

I had heaps of morning sickness, but it was all pretty funny. My friends used to think it was hilarious. So I'd be walking along the beach with them in the morning. I was like a real early rise. I mean the dog would be walking along the beach and I'd just be always spewing, like at the beach, yeah, and was finding My friends would film it.

We all like they still send me videos, so like, look what I found.

I'm just like I was in the main street of Brunswick, like outside the bakery, just like proper projectile vomiting in the street.

My friend just sent me the video the other day. I'm like, yuck, what's wrong with me?

It's funny too, because.

When video I.

Would, I got it. I posted the other.

Because you know, pregnant women are usually they're sick in that phase where it's kind of like you can't really if you don't know them, you're an outside of looking in you can like are they just really hungover or are they actually yes.

A feeling you can't describe it is like a real hungover feeling and just a flat like yeah, like I just have no energy, like I just you just feel so shit in the first few months.

But overall, I do think.

I got pretty lucky and had a good look at Chloe and I'm like, man, and you're uncomfortable, and I was not uncomfortable at the end.

I think I'm a lot taller.

I saw a video for me this morning when she was walking up on them. Yeah, and she's just like she.

Just looks over it, and it's kind of like I get like my wife is like I miss being pregnant in certain certain stages. But I can imagine that that last stage and I do kind of remember what it was like when April was really uncomfortable. But yeah, I can imagine that.

I keep saying to her, You're going to miss this belly, like stop wishing it away, and she's.

Like, shut up.

But I do miss the belly. The novelty of having that big belly is so fun.

Like I just love that.

I think I love everyone coming and touching it. Like some people like don't touch, like, don't touch my belly, like I do it.

I'm like, come and get it.

I love it.

Did you go drug free?

Ah?

Yeah? Yeah yeah.

I don't know why it was fucked And I recommend getting the ebby drill.

I reckon if I go again, I'm drugs. I want the gas. I want everything. I got nothing.

It was the worst was in the hospital with you. Who was your biggest your mum was.

Your biggest Because you've got such a big support network. Anyone who's met you follows you, sees you can see how much the people around you love you during that time when you were like trying after Chumpy had passed. Who who are the people that you think that you lent on the most?

Yeah, my my mom, my brother and my girlfriends, and yeah they're got like I have, I love my friend's boyfriends. I've got like the strongest support network. Like I got so many girlfriends, guy friends. They were seriously like a village, Like they're all my brothers and sisters and we're so close.

I'm so lucky, so.

Much stuff, so isolated.

I suppose having that support network you can those days when you're feeling really shit, like it's just nice to be heard by someone.

How do you think for other people who may have a friend who's going through grief, what are the things that your friends did for you that really helped?

Yeah?

So I think it is really awkward for the support givers. They don't know like what to say. Do I talk about the person? Do I not talk about the person? Do they want a distraction today?

Yeah?

Like what do you?

And I always felt really awkward for them.

I was like, I don't want them feeling awkward and not wanting to hang out with me because they feel awkward because they don't know how to dance around my grief or what I'm feeling that day.

But they were really.

I was so open with them, and I think that's easier for them to just like feel less awkward when I'm just like I don't know, just like it's all out on the table with me kind of thing, Whereas like a lot of people would grieve a bit more privately when I don't know.

But I think, just be there, just keep being there.

If they don't answer the phone, just rock up, just keep texting, just like, don't give up.

I feel like your honesty would really help them too. You're very sitting here next to you now, You're very honest with everything. I think that would really help a person that's feeling a little bit awkward about how do I help this person.

At this start, I was pretty open with just going I'm fucking dying today, like I don't know, be here, don't be here, but like, don't even talk to me. If you're going to be here, just fucking sit there and shut up today, like I just don't feel like chatting or.

I was probably really open.

I think I used to be good at communicating my feelings and now, like last week, I just moved into this new place and I've just been really rattled and like.

Privately doing it, I think.

And like my friend, like Chloe, that they lived down the road and they were like walking past or whatever.

And she saw me just like crying, and she's like, what's wrong? Why didn't you tell me? I'm like, I don't know. I'm just like I feel like.

I'm not as good now at articulating my emotions and shit, Weirdly, I don't know, maybe it's more it's so much further on, and I feel I don't feel like I know it's valid, but I feel like, oh, I don't want to burden my friends with this shit still, like I know that that's not how it is, and they would never think that, but like I'm like, I know they'd be like, well, what's what's wrong, even though it could be self explainatory, and then I have to explain, like I really miss

Like why are you crying?

And I'm like, honestly, I'm just fucking having a moment and still still griefy shit, just lingering around and I know it's valid, but it doesn't. I don't feel like I need to, like, like, I think it surprises people more when they find me in a heap crying. They're like, oh, shit, you should have told us, and I'm like, nah, I'm just doing it on my own now.

Yeah, kind of thing.

That's I think a lot of people are like that. Yeah, well, when you've been getting so much help for a long time, you also have a sense of like, oh I should be doing this on my own now.

Yes, I think that too, And I am really an independent person, so I think it almost like I probably frustrate my friends because they're like, fuck, you don't have to do it alone. Why don't you tell us you're having such a shit time like we're here, and I'm like no, no, Like I think sometimes I need to do this alone and you're busy.

You guys are getting off with your fucking lives, and.

Like so am I but yeah, this and like sometimes the waves of griefs now they actually take me by surprise as well, and I'm like, fuck, this sucks, Like I just got to ride this one out and I'll do it alone because I'm going to know my friends about it right now. Like it's like a bit of a different different motions.

Yeah, no drugs for the child birth? Yes, sorry, oh man, for anyone who hasn't been in the room. For anyone who hasn't given birth, what's it like? And especially because I can't imagine doing that without drugs? But you're in a moment of like extreme pain. And then what's it like when you get to see your child for the first time and you get to hold them?

Yeah, okay, so hang the fuck on birth.

Obviously have seen it as dads, but holy Molly, like nothing prepares you for that. It is excruciating. And you have a plan, chuck that fucking plan, that plan, and it's not sticking to pot. That is so true.

Like I had a plan.

I mean, I'm like a non planning plant person, but I was like hey, I want to have it in the bath, Like I'm real zoning, I'm going to breathe through this thing. Let's have it in the bath. I couldn't even fit in the fucking barth my legs, my legs were way too long for this public hospital bath. And yeah, no, the pain I felt, I think Minnie was apparently turned the wrong way inside me and shit, and she was taking ages to come out and blah blah. My legs felt like they were going to fall off.

It all to me.

I was like, I think I'm gonna die, Like I remember saying that to her. And she had had beautiful bursts with me and my brother. She'd had really quick bursts and get the She said to me, birth is painless, it doesn't hurt. I don't know, this shouldn't matter. I don't think this matters, but like in my head, my mum is a stick. She's like a quarter of the

There, it was just killing.

Oh my goodness.

So yeah, birth was fucked, and I it was too late.

By the time I got through all all the hours of dying in the whatever with the midwives and stuff, it was just too late to get an epy. Like by the time I was like, what's going on, guys, can I get the epidural? They were like, you've literally you've probably only got an hour left. You're about to start start pushing. You've just done this for like seven hours,

They're so slippery slippery, No one tells.

You that you're going to drop it like I was.

I wasn't in a bed.

I was on all fours on the little tile whatever the floor is, and she was just so slippery, and I was like, shit, we're all covered in blood and vomited and everything.

I'm going to drop this little egg.

It took so long of me just catching my breath and chilling for like a few minutes before my mum and the midwives were like what is it? Check what it is?

Like, where is it? You know?

What's what's the sex? And so that was super cool, and I.

Was like, holy shit.

I was like almost scared to like look because I was like, oh my god, I can't believe I've just been so lost in this moment of like just frothing that this little slugs in my arms that.

I haven't even thought to look at what it is.

Because I'm just so stoked to have a healthy baby that's screaming at me.

And yeah, it was a girl.

Sometimes you ha Bbilical cords also a bit confusing as well.

Your homos. Do you have to cut it? Did you cut it. Yeah, how hard is it to cut like Calamari? It was like.

My mum had the scissors and was like chopping, like trying to it was easy.

It's got to sharpen these because these are craps.

Yeah, literally, where's the properes? Get cut over?

The kids safety?

Exactly the plastic ones.

But nah, as you guys know, those moments are ridiculous.

And then I just remember they kind of.

Put me in the bed, babies on me, like figuring out how to breastfeed and like that.

But just like you're so off with the fairies, You're just like, what the hell?

And then they're just like stitching me up and doing whatever they're doing. And that's not even I'm not even feeling a thing there because you're just so wrapped up in like, oh my god, you've got a baby on such a cool and my mum was so great.

In those moments and was manni was she asleep? We always say you get one or the other.

Yeah, okay, I reckon. I got really lucky with the sleep thing. She is and still is a fantastic.

I see so many of your stories.

She's a good sleep.

She can fucking sleep anywhere, anytime, like I could chuck her on the roof, like, but she there's a few but so many, there's a few butts. So first of all, the dummy. She still has a dummy, and that soothes her, and that's how she sleeps.

In as soon as she does.

She's two and a half, gone through in a bit and still oh yeah, killed for a dummy.

She just like, Okay, this makes me happy.

I feel it doesn't work.

Yeah, there's a lot of people in that boat still though, okay.

Good no, because as soon as she falls sleep at night, I take the dummy edge, so and then she's asleep. But then like say, in the middle of the night, she'll be like, dummy, dummy, dummy, ummy, and I have to go in find it, put it back in social sleep.

And I know I could just do cold turkey, have three really shit nights and you know, but.

People say it could ruin their teeth, and to them, I say, fuck off.

I'm gonna be able to afford braces day. I'm gonna work really fucking hard in the next ten years and hopefully I.

Have a spare few grand for braces. So that's my plan.

You're not going to.

The other week.

I was like, gonna go cold Turkey with the dummies and sent her into KINDI with no dummy, and she bloody bit children that day.

And it's so mortifying and fucking embarrassing.

Not just one kid, but like, I'd rather my kid be getting bit We have a solution the other way around.

We have a solution. We asked the question to people.

We had a family friend who same scenario, and they they were like, I don't know what to do. My kid is a bier, and I think it's like everyone every parent's worst night there of like I don't want to have a kid that's a bier. So then after a while of like continuous bites and other kids they were they were like, I'm going to bite my kid.

Yeah I bit my kid. Yeah yeah. Well she cried and it hurt her, but she didn't seem to give a fuck.

She went another day, well you've got Jeffrey Dahmer on your hands.

Yeah. I bet her back one time, for sure, But so many parents were like.

Emarrassing, I'd refers she get bit in and and then I went, honestly, I can't I either pull you out of KINDI or I have to send you in with a dummy because you obviously want to buy it something, and it's got to be that dummy, not another kid. Because this is just so mortifying. I feel like the other kids parents are looking at me, going your kids.

They wouldn't know it's a great white shut.

I wouldn't know that it was your kid. They're not meant to know.

Well, the kids can talk, now, can't they. I'm pretty sure Brad.

On the back and she were like trying to figure out who it was. But she was very coy, really.

Good on hers trying to protect her friend brothers. I feel like all the kids in they're like, fucking Mini bit me today.

Mom rattling off the kids name and she was like, yep, that was was that one? But it was yes to everything.

Oh my gosh nah. But then the other butt is college.

So she had colleague as a baby, and that is just freaking torture, like the unsettled stomach, the reflux of vomiting, the screaming, so one of like I always just remember these nights where and I wasn't.

I had really good help, especially in the first few weeks.

My mum actually had COVID after Mini was born, so she stayed away from us, but some of my friends were like like mum, friends left their kids and moved in with me and were there. Tiana my main like wet nurse friend. She was with me every night in the middle of the night, like helping me. You know, Minnie's crying, Okay, this is what you do. You grab her, check on your booby, brestfea da da dah, like kindness literally being my husband.

Like she was teaching me everything I needed.

To know about breastfeeding, you know, just every fucking little thing, like you get the little rashing on your nipples and all that cap and just like all those things, and helping soothe her because she did get really colliqy and so like you'd feed for like at the start, feels like you're feeding for two hours. It was like an hour on each boob, and then trying to get her back to sleep was like another two hours because she'd be screaming and collicky, and so that just sent me mental.

She's screaming, I'm screaming, we're both crying. I'm like, fuck this, like shut up, and those moments just.

Yeah, my first one was exactly the same as that. Yeah, So the silent reflex I fully resonated with that. You go, you're all screaming at each other for hours trying to get them to sleep, and and.

It's like they're asleep forty minutes later, they're back up.

Yeah, they're hungry, and we're ready to again twenty four hours. It's heavy hate.

How do you deal with the guilt when you have those moments? Because similar, Lola was the same and we had a couple of scares with her, and you want to love this child more than anything, but you're just so exhausted and so tired. You're also so frustrated at them and it's not their fault. But then when you have those moments frustration and you think, fuck, I should be yeah, I should be loving this again, yeah, and you're not, Like, how do you deal with those situations?

The sleep deprivation is the worst.

And I think if you if you're one of those people that does happen to have like that chemical imbalance after you have a baby and you do go through the post partum depression thing that like, I imagine how you could fucking spial because if you had sleep deprivation along with that, you'd just.

Be like I hate this kid. That is the worst thing to say, like that that, thank God was not me.

For people who don't have kids, the reality is you have moments of resentment.

Yes, you can't all the time like you do.

Like you might be like I fuck this, fuck this, Like you could be in the worst mood and be so resentful towards them. You can feel really really guilty for a moment, but there you find you you find your ways to get over it and love them.

Like like you do the whole.

Yes, And I think I had in my head, I don't know, like if she was screaming her head off and I was really like freaking hadn't slept in like a week, I'd.

Just lash out and be like shut the fuck up and then scream at this tiny, innocent little egg. And they obviously have no idea what I'm saying, So I was like, okay, not really learning.

They're killed You're just like, oh my god, they're so innocent, and I've just yelled at this tiny thing, Like is that going to like, you know, it's not really going to affect their life, but you're like, shit, but even now, like I definitely am pretty crazy, but I will honestly, I do feel guilty sometimes, and I'm when I'm too busy or not super present, and you know, I've picked up from daycare and I've got a million other things on my mind rather than being in their car and going Minnie.

How is your day and what did you get up to and what did you draw today?

And did you play in the sand and what did you bloody learn and dadda, Like if I'm not doing that, or if I'm just a bit like smitty shut up like a mummy's talking, or you know, just like quickly trying to rush through the bath and the bed and the dinner and all that, and then you finally chuck them in bed and you're like, fuck, thank god, I can do me Now. I'm like, oh, I don't even know if I really interacted with her enough to savo like that.

Shit feels guilty.

But I look at my friends who have a partner, and it's so much easier to just be like that tiny bit stoke, don't have that bit more energy when you're like, hey, can you do bath in bed?

And then I'll cook for us and then we can all kind of come together and have that and that.

Are like I feel like I'm always rushing and chasing my tail and that, Like I struggle with that, and I do feel guilty about that a lot, but I.

Do also kind of I mean, when I say it out loud, I'm kind.

Of like, I also do feel like, Okay, I should be kind of proud because which she's two and a half, she's actually really healthy and thriving.

We've moved, We've done so fucking much.

I was going to say, you should be so fucking proud.

Thank you.

It's like parenting is hard.

It's tough.

It's hard. Imagine it and a team and this periods where Laura will go away for a weekend and at the end of that, I'm like, I'm checked out. You know, you don't get that reprieve. You're like, yeah, running constantly, and not only that, but then you're working so much as well. You've got podcasts, how you just got announces a cover girl first in Australia. Shout out and thank you.

It's so crazy.

How are you finding balancing everything at the moment? You got a million things going on?

Yes, well I just chucked her in for another day at daycare. Daycare is the best thing ever.

But yeah, I honestly I get a taste of what it would be like to be in a relationship because when Chloe and Fisher are home, they live three doors down the road, and she knows my schedule.

She actually tracks me on fucking fine and.

She tracks me. She knows my calendar. She'll literally be like, hey, it's nearly four pm. I can see that you're still fucking in some meeting up at Miami. Can I Can I go pick Mini up now and then? And then I'll be like, yeah, bloody, go for it. She'll go get Minnie. I'll come back and find her bathed and fed, and then she's got dinner for me, and I'm like, oh my god.

So I get a taste of how good and I get it.

I get so lucky with them, like I get I get a taste of how good and easy it is, and I get to really reap that when they're home, I'm like, fuck, you're on like you.

Yeah, you know.

But then and that makes me appreciate my village and I feel so lucky. So I just lap that up when I can, and then when I can't, I just chase my tail and I get on without my brother and my mom.

They're awesome.

So I have people that I can call when I'm really struggling. But yeah, it's a juggle. Like, it's such a juggle. You just have to not that good at thinking ahead, but you do have to think ahead and be like, fuck, got X, Y and Z, How am I going to figure out who's picking her up?

And what?

So many logistical things you got to worry and.

We like same with you guys.

I'm always traveling for work and flying here and flying there, and like I, I most of the trying to try and figure out how to pull her out of Kindy so she can come because I actually miss her, and then again feel really guilty if I'm going away, you know, for week a weekend for some job and then she's in KINDI a week, Like I'm just like, am I ever going to see this kid?

You know? So it is such a juggle, And yeah, you just.

Got to fully understand that.

Yeah, like the you're sort of trying to do your life as well, but then it's like that you're kind of like their whole life. And it's like sometimes you can feel like if you dismissed them a little bit early or just too quickly, just because you're caught up in your world. But like I said, you're their whole world. They're waiting for you to respond sometimes if.

It makes you feel any better. So many other parents are going through the same thing. Wrapping the Gold Coast right now. I'm sleeping up here tomorrow morning. Is those days are a daddy door to day, which I'll miss because I'm up here. So those internal thoughts in the good that you've got, like we've all got in.

Some capacity, we've all got it.

It's kind of like you know, your situations unique with what you know, you and your kid alike, but everyone's got that something that they go I should have maybe not said that, or I should have maybe spent that little bit of extra time instead of sat and doom scrolled for that fifteen minutes.

Dooom scrolling watching some other fucking kid on some other kid on tiktog instead of your own stupid look. But yeah, it's true. At Mini's KINDI there's another kid that also doesn't have a dad, and well she had a sperm don a situation and such a beautiful little girl. And I respect that mum so much because she works her us off. She works full time, and I'm like, she

And she would think the same as what you think about her, like we think about you like pride, like far out.

It's hard and she knows that. So it's good that you've got You've got that sense that you feel, you know, proud of what she does. She would feel exactly the same about you, I guarantee you.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Well hopefully we've both got each other.

And it's the thing because sometimes I'm like, I need to stop saying yes to so much work because I need to have more time for me. But then I'm like, there's only one income here, and I got to do it, and it'll like you know, yeah, kind of.

Just got to get on with it.

I feel like one of the most common questions that must get thrown it you are are you going to have another baby? Are you ready to start dating again? Be honest? How annoying is it to have that question thrown at you?

Yeah? I feel like.

I think I used to find it really annoying because I was like or like, I don't want to say I thought it was rude, but I wasn't. My head wasn't there, so I was like, what the fuck, I'm just like I'm pregnant, or I've just had mini like what the hell, like as if I'm going to find someone now?

And like I felt pressure too.

I was like, is that what I'm like? Am I just moving to slow? Should I already be with someone? Like I feel like I can't, like you know, and or I had other friends that they lost their partners too, and I met them on like line and they already had other boyfriends and stuff. Their circumstance was different. Maybe they weren't they weren't having a baby or whatever. But I was like, holy shit, like good power to them, Like fucking oath, that would be so hard to do and eyes are on you.

People are going holy shit.

That was too soon or that wasn't soon enough for they're comparing the guys and like passing judgment and shit, and I was like, oh, I don't want that.

And I was like maybe that's something I just keep super private and stuff.

But now I'm like actually excited about like what's to come. And I'm like that actually excites me now. So now when people ask, I'm like, oh my god, I want to know too, what are we going to do? It's like who's it going to be? Like just be a better, be a legend. And I just can't wait to find someone that I just fucking love and get along with and we just have fun and mini loves and like, yeah.

It's the first time that we've met. But it's also weird how invested I am in your life. I'm completely honest. I'm like, yeah from the sidelines, like, O.

Love you, Maddie. And I love Laura too. She's boody best. As soon as I met her, I was like, I fucking love you. She's one of one and the.

Same and love talking to Elidie. Oh, I was like, she wasn't wrong. We do like to end on one question I have forgotten to ask it a few times, But I'm not going to figure out, given you're fired, when Minnie is all grown up and she's no longer living with you at home, what would be one thing or a few things that you would want her to remember about the house that she grew up in.

That's a cool question.

Well, I actually have this fear that she's going to forget about the house that Chump and I kind of made our home together that I just moved from.

So if you had to come up last week, that's where we would have been.

And because it's so special to me, and it's such a sick house and I just love it, and she had so much fun there, and I've got so many memories and amazing videos there, and I just hope that she remembers that. But she's two and a half, so she probably won't. But I just have in my like little thing that we're going to keep driving past that street and I'm gonna be like, that's our first house. That's our first house, and.

She's gonna be like yeah, da da and always feel like that's home.

But I'm now in this little flat and for like a month or two, and then I'm going to move into this other house, and I think, like Rummy and I are is home to Minnie.

And she's like obsessed with the dog.

She's unfortunately got to be a mummy's girl because she doesn't have a dad, and well a dads here.

And I just think that what she I hope that she remembers from home is just yummy food, warm cuddles.

Energy, like good welcoming energy, like come and be who you want here, like this is your safe place and no matter where we are, Like my dad lived in Sydney.

He passed away a year after Chump died.

But me and Chump like say, if we had an engagement party down there or whatever, I'd never tell my dad we were going. I just like me and Chump would fly down or drive down or whatever, and we'd rock up at Dad's with all our suitcases and I'd

Yeah, you cool, do whatever you need to do.

Like he was just so cruisy. He didn't expect anything. He was just like, fuck, I'm so glad you can rock up with your bags. You don't even need to tell me.

And of course you know this is your home and you're welcome.

And dadda and Trump was always like I can't believe you can just like fucking lob up, say hardy your dad for two seconds, just hug him and walk back out the door and not have to sit there and have tea and chats for hours on end. And he's happy with that. And then you know, go to this party and then come back and then we'll have a big, fat day with dad tomorrow.

But like he was just so cruisy and just wanted us to just do us and be happy.

And sometimes I'd go to my dad's and literally just be like, Dad, I just needed to get away and have a nap or something.

And I'd fucking just lie on his couch and don't even talk.

To him and sleep, And like, I just always felt so comfortable going to Dad's and that was my happy place and my place where I didn't have to be anything. I didn't have to put on a fucking show or you know, be all like, hey, daddy into the you know, like I didn't have to suck up to my dad at all.

Like he was just like stoked for me to just go and be me. And that's what I want. That was the longest answer ever.

That's good.

That's what I want for me. I don't want her to think.

When she comes back with her fucking boyfriends or whatever and has to visit mom's hay house. I don't want her to think she has to, like, you know, be on her best behavior or put on some face or be like, you know.

It's still like that. I love her and I'm proud of her no matter what she's doing.

And I felt that so much from my dad. I didn't have to I could go and look so disheveled and hungover and be stewing, and my dad would be so frothing.

To see me and take me in.

And that's amazing.

You know, some parents are a bit judgy, ah yeah yeah, and not looking at mine.

A bloody delight.

Absolutely, And thank you for having us.

We've crashed into your floor, your living room, yeah, so thank you for having that.

Thanks thanks so much.

I'm not going to be able to get out, it's got to break them back.

In your Matt's going to have to lift me out. But it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having us in your house and welcoming us into your world.

Thanks so much, guys for having me. It's been such a good chat.

I did need to wash my hands at the end of that.

It's the first time I've done a podcast where I've had to deal with an animal. Came one to me strong at the start, talking about a dog here, and then quickly made its way over to ash and I'd like a glands over it. You making out with a dog.

I don't mind a good tongue lashes on the dog.

And shout out to elid for letting us crash into a house.

Yeah, I did get stuck on the floor. When you see the socials of this, we filmed it while sitting on the floor. I've got a bad knee and someone had.

To help me out.

Elidie was like, you, guys might be a bit uncomfortable because we record for like an hour and a bit and we're both going no, no, no, it's fine, it's fine. Forty five minutes in Pins and Needles, couldn't feel the left side of my body.

I realized my midway through that.

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Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.

We pay our respects to their elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and torrestraight on the People's Today. This episode was recorded on Gatego Land