#103 Steph Claire Smith: Intimacy Challenge, Bounce-Back Culture and Failed Sleep Routines

Ash, what are your thoughts on a thirty day intimacy challenge?

I'm listening us.

Well, not we could, but well maybe your wife, who the.

Hell could last thirty days? More like thirty seconds?

Hey, well you know Steph kles Smith I do. You're a big fan of her work. She is one of the co founders of one of this country's most successful fitness apps. It's called Kick or Keep It Cleaner. She's got over one point five million followers. Have also got kick pod as well, which is hugely successful. Her and her husband, Josh, they recently made the commitment to each other and it turns out Ash it did their relationship some good.

Wow.

Who'd a thought that three days of intimacy would help her relationship? Yes, Steph and Josh have been together since they were teenagers, so you've got to find creative ways to keep the spice alive, especially when you have a three year old.

Harvey ended the world during the height of COVID lockdown. What a time to be conceived.

Yeah, baby, COVID baby. She also has a love for jet ski, so let's lock in and find out why that is.

Welcome back to two doting dads and one doting mom. I'm Maddie Jay, I'm.

Ash's Steph Clesmith, mamma of Harvey.

Very very very thank you.

And this is a podcast all about parenting.

It is the good, it is the bad and the relatable.

Now, Steph, we don't give advice. You never have, we never will. But if you feel like you want to give any advice whatsoever, absolutely you're allowed to.

Do whatever you lie. But we give that warning at the start so of people.

But that didn't work, then we can be like, well, it's not real advice.

Occasionally we'll give some medical advice. Yeah, but for legal reasons.

We're not doctors.

We're not doctors yet.

Okay, are you working on that?

Steph? We're going to go back to the very beginning of time, back to when you were a lot younger. Okay, what was a young Steph? Claire Smith Like, I feel like you were the kind of person that would be like ducks of the school.

Why did you take the words out of my mouth? And I haven't heard the word ducks at a while. I might throw that out there.

Never got a detention, always got an A plus.

Is that the right picture?

On Paine?

Over to the opposite, Yes, yes, like I definitely. I think in the subjects that I enjoyed, I got along with my teacher and I got good grades.

But I was not academic.

What were those subjects that you liked, like.

Food, take, like studio art that, But no, I definitely had detentions, more so in primary.

School a lot of them.

I was Actually I was very easily distracted, so I loved drawing, and if I didn't really love a subject, I just kind of added to this thing that I called jodd of drawings, which became like little booklets of random creatures.

Do you still have made?

Yeah?

Actually, wow, that's pretty awesome. You're a doodler.

I'm a doodler. Yeah.

Language, and so detentions were usually just because of that, and it was kind of a repeat offense.

Seemed like a really bad thing to do.

It's like like you were just drawing a little bit and they're like detention.

Was it a strict school that you went to.

No, it wasn't.

And to be fair, you hung out with the vice principal and everyone loved him, so maybe I don't know, maybe I did it on purpose.

He was a nice guy.

But also there was one that I definitely I do regret it wasn't a very nice thing, although he was a bit of a bully himself. So you know, we're playing four square, and I think I called what's four square?

Hamble?

Wait?

What hamble? The one that yeah square handle a king queen?

Yeah? Yeah, two squirrel four square? Depending on how many feel like.

A back in primary school, Wow, I didn't. I'll send you a how to later.

I missed this and he annoyed me, and I think I called him a buck tooth, and then.

I go to, wow, that's a fancive.

I was probably seven, but I definitely got your.

Mouth shamed in straight up.

So when you got that detention, would you be more afraid of telling your mom or your dad? Like who was more strict?

My mom?

Only just because I feel like my dad was a bit of a rebel growing up, and so through my teens as well, like I started drinking before I should have. I would skip on classes and stuff, And I feel like my mom she was the youngest of quite a lot of siblings, and she was a bit of a goodie.

I don't want to call it well.

She was good at shoe shoes, like very very would have been teacher's pet kind of person, and I didn't really gel with her until I got a bit older. Always got along with her, love my mom to bits, very grateful for our relationship, but yeah, I didn't really see myself in her until now I'm a mom and I'm like, oh my god, you were the best mum that I could have asked for, and I want to

Have understood things like that.

But he was the one I was a little bit more scared of, Like if I was in trouble at home, I'd run away from him. From him, Yeah, but his mom just had the disappointing kind of yeah wow.

Yeah.

No, definitely not like a across the bord a plus student ducks of the school.

No, I was like sports captain.

That's pretty good.

But that makes a lot of sense.

Did they have to vote you in or you just.

Like in primary school they did and then in high school I kind of remember how that worked.

So why do you think he didn't gel with your mom? Is it just like you just didn't click before.

Yeah, I think it was just like, well like we did, we got along.

It was never that kind of mum and daughter relationship where we were like screaming each other anything. I don't think I ever raised my voice at it, But I just I feel like when she'd find things out, or like if i'd I don't know, skip school for a boy or something like that, just didn't really feel like she understood.

Yeah, yeah, okay, likes just way more sensible. It was like, why would you do something so irresponsible? What were you skipping school for?

Josh?

No, not yet for anyone who doesn't know is your husband?

He is my husband. I was funny story about that.

I actually my mum found mms texts mms.

In my phone bill, which she still look after unless I went over.

Was it like thirty cents mms?

They were to Josh And this is when we were younger.

So yeah, that was a funny moment. Josh's number, this.

Is Josh's what instead of Josh's did your mom?

Did your mom have to call the number to find out who?

Well, she just knew and she we weren't dating, so she was a bit like what's going on?

So how old were you then?

I think I was like sixteen.

Oh yeah, you know what those mmss would have been about.

If you weren't dating then did it take a while for Josh to caught you or vice versa?

Well, so when we met, I was twelve, and so I think I was just like too young to go.

There's three years older than me.

So you've only since you were twelve, so it'd been fifteen. Oh my god, that's a long time.

Yeah, eighteen years. Yeah my age.

Now either one of us were like, oh, we'll work that out after you've le message.

Was eighteen years.

Oh my god, you're like thirty.

But no, we started dating when I was eighteen.

That is just so he's like that long.

Yeah, I mean there was a lot of like flirting along the way.

People went surprised when it happened.

Were their boyfriends in between? Yah, Okay, it wasn't like it was like, no, they's a notebook and he was like waiting in the rain six years.

So when was the moment that the penny dropped?

Then?

For you and Josh, it was basically the first time we were both away together because we both have property up on the Morro River, and that's where we spent a lot of the time because our families did up there, and it was basically the long weekend up there that we were both single.

It was the first time we spin.

In the bottle. There's definitely spin the bottle that weekend.

Did he make the move or did you make the move?

I can't remember.

I think it was just that we were both very much aware that something was going to happen that weekend.

I remember going on the jet ski.

Actually there's no better afrodisiac ski.

No, sorry, listener, it's just a technical listening.

Ash is getting a little bit.

You said, jet ski. I was like, I'm in, I'm in for the ride.

And it was just, you know, in the way that we were hovering each other that it was like it's on tonight.

It is on.

Wow.

It certainly was for anyone who has a crush out there not sure how to like make come in my house, got a jet ski.

The way he held me on that jet ski, that is that is very good.

All Right, we're gonna have to finish this up now.

And do you remember when you're getting a little bit older, let's say, you know, around your early twenties, did you and Josh discuss openly the thought of having kids and what that plan looked like earlier on?

I think, I mean, we were really lucky.

We traveled a lot together and had all of those kind of experiences in our life really early, which was really nice. So I think soon after that we were both talking back getting married and like getting engaged and what engaged at them, and then yeah, kids was something I wanted from a pretty young age, but because I was full time modeling.

I was like, well, I'll just wait till I'm a bit older.

And then Kick my Business happened, and it just felt like the right time when it did.

With Harvey, how long were you dating before he dropped in there?

And actually two part question and how did he do it?

So two thousand and eighteen we were engaged and we started dating in two thousand eleven or twelve, Yeah.

Seven years see my mask work. Then well, thank you, I'm learning.

And it was such a lovely surprise.

We'd actually just launched the app, the Kick app, and it was a really big moment and we were really it was just it was awesome. It went to the top of the Apple charts on the night of launch, and we went out to celebrate. And when I say we, my business partner Laura Henshaw and Josh and her partner Dom We all went out for dinner and they got us, well they got me this, Well, no, they got us.

Yeah.

It was for Laura and I this like voucher to go away and spend the weekend away. And it was supposed to just be celebrating and like we're getting the chopper there.

It was very very bougie.

And then the weekend came around and it was the worst weather ever, like really windy, really rainy, and so the chopper got canceled. But what I didn't know was it was all a set up, and they both totally knew about it, and all of our friends and family were up the river waiting for me.

Basically, so Josh said, change of plans.

The chopper is now picking you up from the farm and then it's going to take you to the place because the weather. So Dalton's driving to the river and he's never been there before and he was driving like an idiot. But we were just so excited in the back. I was like, this is gonna be the best thing ever. I was totally distracted. And then we pull up and I get out of the car and I see joh and he wasn't meant to be there, like we were just meant to be getting the chopper there, and I was.

Like, why is he Every time you say the chopper, I could just see it.

And I just it's fine. And so he was standing out there and I was like, what's Josh doing here?

And then all of a sudden, Dol just drives off on me and it's a pretty long driveway, and.

You're like, motherfucker, he just left me.

I think I started to put two and two together then, and then you just have this awkward like like do we walk or run towards each other?

Like would be.

Nice if hit a jet ski.

Is by the good.

And I didn't know, but yeah, our family and friends were like in the house apparently.

Like peeking out of the watch.

And then we went back to the house after it happened, and I said yes, and first of all our family came out and that was a lovely surprise, but then yeah, all our friend like closest friends and one of mine who's like assisted of me, he flew over from New.

Zealand to be there. For it, and it was just the best weekend ever.

Like that night we had a movie and popcorn on the deck like outside, and he's very good.

He is very good. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Yeah, if you're listening and haven't done it yet, Josh.

Miller nice because it was where we met, where we first kissed.

Full circle.

Was the Jetski still there? Forget part of the family.

What were the questions then that you and Josh would ask in order to figure out that it was the right time to have a family.

So from there it was a couple of years until we had Harvey. But to be honest, we always kind of imagined we go on our honeymoon and we'd start trying then and then.

That soon yeah straight up.

Yeah, Well, our honeymoon wasn't straight after.

It was going to be because we got married in November twenty nineteen. Our honeymoon was supposed to be the holidays in Australia in Europe, but then COVID hit in like March, so we went into lockdown and didn't have that, and so I think the timing was just Okay, there's a couple of things happening with Kick, we'll get through that, and obviously it's COVID, so who knows when we're going to get to Italy. But we both really wanted a family,

So yeah, as two men, we're quite if you're not aware ash myself, but we're very lucky and that when it comes time to having a family. Well for me anyway, the big question Mike, and what makes me nervous is what happens as soon as baby is born. Like, we don't have to worry too much about pregnant practice.

Just to practice leading into it. That's all we've got to worry about.

Getting some nice visuals. Sorry, what's it like for yourself? I know you mentioned before that you've got your fitness app. You know you're a model, so you're in a profession. Were two professions that are like very dependent.

On how ability and how I look?

Yes, So then what's it like for you to process? What impact will pregnancy have on me?

Yeah?

I think I went into it probably naively, thinking like it'll be fine, Everything's going to be fine, and fortunately I was. I felt really healthy throughout my pregnancy, so there was still a lot that I could do.

My routine didn't have to change too much.

Again, it was COVID lockdown so for my entire pregnancy, so I didn't have my usual lifestyle where I was like flying up to Sydney or Queensland all the time for different shoots or going overseas for different things.

It was in my house the whole time. So in that regard, it was okay with my body.

I think I'm just really fortunate in the timing that it happened for me. Like if I was pregnant in my early twenties, when I was the most insecure about my body, I would have probably.

Really stressed about what's going to happen too.

How am I going to get it back or whatever. But the bounce back culture, it makes me so mad, especially with all the work that we do with Kick and everything I've done personally in the work with myself.

And then there's the postpartum period.

Which are moosted to be supposed to be the most delicate on yourself and like really ease back into it.

But women are pressure to like.

Bounce back quick like we did before.

But yeah, I've never heard of it being referred to as bounce back culture.

Yes, I remember, like as a kid, my mum used to always get Who weekly magazines and it was always going. It was just always on, like the kitchen jay. Well you know, you'd have breakfast and you flick through. And I remember being younger and it was so celebrated that if someone bunce back as quickly as everyone was like, yeah, like what are achievement? This is great?

Yeah, yeah exactly.

And it's just it's different for everyone, and a lot of women never bounce back, and that's just the thing. So I think for me, it's what got me really really passionate about being able to connect with that part of our community and making sure that everything that we did from kickside was to just nurture and like educate them on that period. And it's all well and good that you want to get back to moving your body, but you just it's so dangerous to jump back into

Yeah, my wife is one of those people that, after two kids, wanted to get back moving pretty much immediately for our own mental health as well. It wasn't just for the not bounce back culture, which was like I want to feel like me again. And I can imagine there's a lot of people out there that go So you go through nine months, have been told okay, we'll look for your health, you need to maybe not move, and then you have a traumatic birth or you've got

I'm not doing exactly.

I can't imagine two years of a woman who's given birth gone through so much trauma and then been expected to be like, well, you need to find that motivation again and put that pressure put on them on top of everything else.

I can't imagine.

Yeah it is, and I think that's why. I mean, for me anyway, it was taking baby steps. I did have the added pressure of like knowing that eventually I'm going to have to shoot workouts again, so I need to build my strength up.

But to your point, it was also a mental thing for me.

I enjoy moving my body and I enjoy having that time for myself, and I'm a pretty cranky person if I don't. It's not a daily thing for me, Like I don't have to do a workout every day, and my routine certainly looks very different now being a mum to what it did before. But I've come to accept that because I do what I can, and you know, my workouts might be fifteen minutes now, yeah I haven't.

That's totally you find yourself squeezing it in where you can, I suppose, yeah, but it's.

Still I think for me, it's like I'm still doing something for me even if it's fifteen minutes.

So it's like, oh, I don't have forty, so I'm not going to do anything at all.

That's exactly my Yeah, you just eat the nail on the head with me straight away.

I'll be like, oh, I've got twenty minutes workouts.

Usually I'll go to the bathroom.

How did you.

Plan it then?

As well?

I know, I look at Laura running a small business. You don't have the luxury of having like an extended period of time going into having a baby. How did you plan that knowing what the impact would be running a small business?

Yeah, so I think again with the timing with.

I think where Kick was at and where the team was at and what we were working on, and also COVID being in Melbourne.

Particularly, we just felt like it was forever.

Like it was exhausting how many press conferences we'd get excited about and then just feel really let down. And so everyone was just kind of like this could be years or it could be next week, like who knows.

Every day it was about the numbers, I remember, yes.

And so I think we just came to a point where we were like, this is something we really really want, and who knows what's going to happen with the world, so we can't just keep putting it off for the unknown and we'll work it out.

So does that mean it was only Josh in the room then?

For the.

Obviously for the conception, thank you.

It was only him because of lockdown.

For the birth, Oh, for.

The birth, no, actually really really well it was just Josh. But luckily they let me have a close friend of mine who ended up taking photos of the birth, which I'm so glad I pushed for because it was like some of the photos I just I think it's crazy to be able to look back at. But yeah, she almost wasn't because it was very very in the scans, Like,

Oh it must be so so tough, Like, yeah, it was such a strange.

Is it such a strange?

When Marley was born, I was like, it wants to come in I was like, my mum was there?

She forgot to ask Laura.

Yeah it was I was like, did I not mention my Mum's coming into the room and aw, she lives with you?

Yeah?

Yeah, I wish I had forgot to mention as well.

She still doesn't know.

It's all good. So then what was the conversation like with Josh because when I look at you guys, now, you guys have a really amazing setup in terms of equal share parenting. Was that always the case? Did you guys go into parenthood being like this is how the dynamic.

Is going to work?

Yeah, So we definitely had a conversation about it, probably a lot of conversations about it. But we both were in another business that we exited soon after Harvey's birth, but that we had planned to exit as well. So we knew that Josh was going to have a lot more time up his sleeve because outside of that he

So that business was great, but we were ready to leave.

And then Kick was just kind of on the upwards and I had no interest in stepping back, Like I definitely wanted to take my time with Harvey and to just see how that felt. Because I was a bit of a guinea pig lawa on my business partner. I hadn't had a kid, We didn't really know what that.

Was going to happen, and so she I mean, it was brilliant.

I think being able to work with your best friend and for her to allow me to have that time and for us to be patient with that was really great. And justin of communicated over the years and if I needed to come back for more time or yeah, whenever I needed something really easy to talk to about.

How long did you have off with Harvey before you and Josh had that conversation where it's like, Okay, well I need to get back to it because it's your your you know, Harvey's your baby, but also kicks you baby as well.

How long?

It was always the plan, so like we knew I was going to be going back, but it was more so I kept saying to him, like, if you you know, start to be a stay at home dad and it just doesn't fulfill you or it doesn't like feel good. You have to just talk to me, because we have other options, like we can do at the different things and you can get back into something else.

Like I really encourage that in him.

But it was something he really wanted to do and he really enjoyed it, and he's had there's been times where it's been really challenging for him. And also because a lot of his friends they've only just kind of started having kids now, so a lot of his friends were kind of still in that lifestyle of not having kids.

Which makes it really hard.

It's really really nice, wouldn't understand as well, And like I still have friends that don't have kids now, and it's like they're like, hey, come serve And I was like, I've got.

To watch Macie. Just put the and they're like, can't you watch yourself?

Yeah?

Brochus like too.

And I think it was also even just some of the comments, like if he'd had a really hard day with Harvey, he might say that he was tired or something, and his friend who hadn't had a kid yet might be like, oh, mate, like.

You got it easy or whatever. Yeah, Okay, you just don't get it.

But The other thing is is like which I think there needs to be more of, like the communities of dads, because I know that it is happening more where there is a lot more balance with the dynamic at home and who's staying at home. But if I was staying at home, like I connected with other mums and there was like mum.

Communities very easily for me to.

Make and whether it was like through the council or just for people, I knew there was other moms I knew that weren't working in the day that.

I could go for coffee or catch up with the park with.

For Josh, that didn't exist existing, so it was pretty isolating.

I think for him was his network then of support.

Honestly, some of my friends, like my girlfriends and me, I mean, like his friends were great. But yeah, as I said, they've only kind of just started having kids.

Yeah, they wouldn't have understood a complexity at all.

Yeah, for sure.

I mean I was really lucky we had a really good mother's group which the dads were all like real supportive and we're still with them now.

So I can imagine like him, like.

I know, when I have one day with the kids, like which I have like with Macy twice a week.

It's just our day.

It's like you're looking for someone kids, yeah, to be like let's.

Hang out, because you know, just being in the presence of another parent, it makes such a difference.

Oh yeah, because you could be like they're sort of the kids are sort of entertaining themselves. You can be like, you know, like someone watching. But yeah, it's like so true.

He actually recently, probably six months ago, met a dad at the part.

And he took his jet ski down.

And I'm so happy that James his name.

Is shouted out to James. James.

Ja gave Josh's number because his kid Mac just got along with Harvey so well, and he was like, we've just moved to the area. He doesn't really have any other friends, and I've never seen him get along so

Yeah, it's always awkward asking.

Yeah, Look, I avoid new friends good.

Enough time with my actual close friends that I know, making new ones that don't necessarily We.

Told that story about remember April that someone moved into our old complex and this guy approached my wife in the park in the complex because the kids were getting on and was like asking for my wife's number and stuff.

And then she was like she got home, she was like, what do we do? I was like, ignore him. So we ignored him.

It's hard making friends as an adult, it is. It's hard. It's like dating all over again. You're going to make sure the kids get along, that you get along.

If you got jet skis bro.

Stay at home dad? Did you take to it like duck toward I know you said he had some troubles. But those who we spoke about who don't have kids don't understand how it's a full day's work. You might think that's easy, it's just a kid, But it's like having like I said, it's like having a drunk person all the time. They're incoherent, they're moody, they can barely walk, they never want to eat.

I can imagine.

So do you remember do you remember the parts early on that were the hardest when it came to parenting.

Early on, I think sleep deprivation sucked, like that turned me into the worst person, the worst version of myself.

What period was the hardest?

Do you think I reckon between like three months and like five months where they're not just like newborns anymore. They can like sleep in the daylight, They're a lot more aware, aware of everything, and harder to get down and kind of waking up through the night still, And I think the adrenaline and magic of the newborn days is kind of.

What by that point. So I remember that phase being really hard.

But the best thing is is because Josh wasn't working in that period really hard nights, because I was feeding a lot, like really hard nights, he could tap in if he ever needed settling without a feed, Josh could tap in. And I know for people who like work a full time job, being the person getting up with your partner, that's not always going to work out, because at least one of your needs to refresh the next day.

When I hear parents talk about the fact that, well, if I'm up ub up as well, I'm like, no.

Bad plain.

And I did that early on with my first but then learned for my second yeah, where I slept in the lounger in for six months.

It was the.

Best see And I think you just got to find what works for you, because I had friends who did that, who literally slept in separate rooms with their part from it was the first year, just because then at least in the morning for the really early morning wake, you know, the partner who had a really good sleep was kind of up and could take them and they could get a couple more hours or something.

You do. You have to find what works.

But I think on some of the really tough nights, it was nice to know that he was there and then even throughout the next day, Like if I was absolutely from the night before, he was there to support me the next day, and I just yeah, that support was everything. So I think by the time I was going back to work and I did a gradual I was online a lot at the start, like I started recording the pop for the podcast and stuff. I think two months.

Wow, I just I loved that. So I was doing that.

We shot for workouts and stuff probably five months postpartum, and then we had events pretty early on because we launched Kickbump, which is our pre and post natal offering.

When Harvey was like two weeks old, so I was there.

So there was elements of the idea, but that's the reality of running a small.

Business and a lot of pr and stuff. That all happened really early. And it was probably around the five or six month mark where I started going back into the actual office for like a day or two and then online for another day. Started with three days, eventually worked up to four, and then eventually went back to full time.

And what made it easier than coming out of that five month phase with sleep? Was it just that you adjusted an acclimatized environment or do you guys get help.

In We did end up doing some sleep training, which is it's really funny because I'm thinking, like, you know, when it's time, if we are so fortunate to have another, like what I would want to do second time around?

Yeah, what do you do differently?

I think like.

There was just some stuff that didn't like feel right to my gut with the sleep training that you just hit it.

Yeah, I was traumatized by the first visit.

Yeah, just like can you remember.

What it was?

Just letting him cry really killed me.

And like, you know, the person who which I won't talk about, but you know, they would kind of be like, you'll the cries when they're like kind of putting it on versus like when they're actually hysterical. But it just

But the funny thing is is I did all.

That because I read all this stuff about like if you rock them to sleep, or they two attached to you at night, or you co sleep or anything like that, they'll be co sleeping with you when they're todder and forever. He's now a toddler, and with me, I can't put him down, like I have to be in his bed.

You get in with him.

If i'm also I'm alone, he'll enough in my bed.

Do you have to I always thank the grace of God that my children aren't the ones that require me to be in bed with them. Do you have to like literally going to be there touching him to him full asleep?

Yeah? Well now at the moment in the phase that we're in, and I'm.

So sorry in a lot lately.

Yeah, I've got some friends are the same that like got a what I think, what's five in this till they going through another phase like that. And I think we definitely had a little phase like that too, but not at three and I feel four hour.

Yeah, but it's like it is what he hasn't always been like that, And I think the frustrating part is very different to me too, to Josh. So like Josh can go through bedtime and he'll go down and he'll say good.

Night, data love.

You can walk out and I watched the monitor and I'm like you because you know, and then he'll also sleep through whereas nights that I've put him down. Yeah, he pushed bedtime so much like you'll find everything else to do to stay awake, which I think also it plays with my heartstrings because he's got Josh a lot more than he has me, and so I think it is a little bit like I've got you, I don't want you to go spend more time with me, So that kills me.

A little bit.

But you know, bedtime will take a really really long time eventually when I've talked him into going to bed, which at the moment it's not happening, which is killing me. The other night, I was home alone and it got to past eight o'clock and I ended up just putting.

Him in my bed because I was like, yeah, to eat, and I actually need.

To get.

Resistance.

What does your what does are you really routine with him? Like your bedtime routine? Is it the same every time I.

Try to This is Josh's point to me, because he's this pretty like clockwork.

But I think he's also like he's worked out some tricks that if he feels.

That Harvey's about to get distracted or like push away or something, He'll just like start telling me a story and like just butt in and just talk grab a Harvey and like get him distructed.

But for me, it's like it's pretty set like this.

The order is all the same, you know, the amount of books might be different where he wants to read his book.

I don't know. I try in my head, it's me picking my battles.

Yeah, with like him losing it, but it's probably me being a little bit.

Especially if you're you've Josh's got a majority of time obviously with him, and then you're coming home from from your busy date. You want, like you said, you want to extend that time with them. You might be like, why don't we do three books? Yeah, it's but this isn't for you, this is me.

And then it gets to like, know, he gets into bed and it's I want to take him one's truck bed, No, not taking him on instructed.

And then I'm starting to be like, oh my god, I.

Need to eat.

I'm really stimulated right now. So yeah, it's really tough at the moment bedtimes. And I think it's just funny because I reflect back on like all this independent sleep stuff that we did when he was so young, and I'm like, kids are just going to do.

What they wanted.

Yeah, some of them are going to need more attachment at than others, and that's it is what it is.

They're small for only a short period of their lives.

And over that time where you're back at work full time, let's call it. What about the relationship between you and Josh. How how did that differ? Was there any significant impacts that you thought?

I think for us, it was just that our lives were wildly different. I mean, COVID was one shift in our lifestyle, but then having a kid and the business kind of going up a level and needing me a lot more full time meant that, Yeah, a lot of this kind of like spontaneous exciting opportunities and stuff that we used to kind of go with weren't really happening,

His battery is charged off of other people. So like if we used to.

Run events or whatever, him being there and like hosting it and like getting people there, that's just what fied him up doing.

None of that really shifted him.

But we've always kind of been like he just wants more time with me, and like it's he's just the best, but he just wants to spend more time with me and missed me and misses me. And for me, it's like I work with people all day and I get really exhausted at work and then I'll come home and if I have the time with Harvey, I pour everything into that and then I'm drained.

It's hard to fill everyone's cup as well, including your own.

Including your own.

Yeah, yeah, I hate to pry into your personal life, but I have wanted to ask you a question about one aspect of your personal life. And it's something that Laura and I try to take inspiration from. We didn't do it that well. You're thirty days of intimacy.

Oh yeah, oh yeah, actually yeah a good shout.

How did that come about and how has it changed you after you did the experiment?

Yeah, so, so the experiment was thirty days of intimacy and for me, like our libidos are different, Josh, this is a lot higher than mine, and I think it was for us it was just making sure that we made time for each other and like connected like that, because it just wasn't happening as much, and it didn't mean like sex all the way. It was just like even just being affectionate with one another. We're kind of just roommates on most days.

So it was really good for that. There was it was really hard, like for me as well.

I was last two days a lot two days, what ages.

It was hard, But I think that actually the best part about it was when you know you're going to have sex with someone on the best part about it, but it's just the way you treat each other just in the day in general.

That's true.

If you know you're going to have sex with them, you don't want to be picking a fight over who didn't do.

This swashure or what happens. Depends what you're into.

Well we didn't because I you know, I'm not into doing it if I'm annoyed of his stuff. And so it was kind of good because yeah, you were a little bit more affection even outside of the action it's itself, and that was a really nice habit to build.

So after the thirty days, did we even continue every day?

Absolutely not like it dropped back down to maybe like once or twice a week pretty quickly, but it just I don't know.

It just felt really good to do and it was a nice remid did.

You feel like on those like because obviously let's just put sex up here for a moment, but did you feel after those thirty days that you connected better on all of these other levels?

Yeah?

I think so, and just like having more time like that together. It didn't have to be sex, but just intimately.

Yeah, totally yeah. Yeah. Did you see it even? Did you see it as a chore?

Were You're like, oh, fuck, it's like I did, Yeah, because for us it was like for one of a better analogy, It's like that load of washing that you know you have to put on at the end of the day.

You're like, oh fuck, I've got to like I've.

Got to do the washing, or like when you put it on too late and you realize, fuck, I better hang it hour.

It's king to stink. Take that, do you know what I mean?

But do you feel like that in the beginning?

But I think like even just in general, not within that challenge, there's days where I can't be bothered and.

Then we do it and I'm like why do we do them?

All?

So you definitely like you've worked that out pretty quickly in the challenge is like it felt like that at the start, but then as soon as you got into the habit of it, you knew how good it felt afterwards.

But it's so easier and to get into that routine of just not being intimate, like well, Laura and I will have just like a split second pet good night, and then we've rolled to separate end of the bed and then that's it. And then you did that the first night, second night, and you're like, oh shit, it's been a month, and.

We do get like we do.

It's actually we're probably really insightful for our listeners because we do get listeners saying, hey, what do you do in that roommate phase because everyone goes through it, absolutely everyone with kids go through it because you are so exhausted, And we talked about filling carps because you could go to like families that both parents work, like April and I both kids go to daycare. You're all tired.

When you get home. And it's like, like you said, it's.

The non critical part, really yeah, and like it it's so easy to get stuck in it.

So I mean thirty days of you're building a habit, right, Yeah, and.

It's a look that's not for everyone. But I think even I think just being okay with scheduling it in in a way, like not putting it in the calendar, but just knowing, like my.

Wife could put it in the calendar.

I don't know.

When he got to the eighth when he was having a napper day, it was like, Okay, Saturday's midday, that's our time because we the best day for it.

That's on because it was the weekend, so I wasn't going to be stressed from work or like tired from work, and it could be in the.

Day, which is great. We're not exhausted, and he was going to be a sleep so I haven't.

Had a big dinner either. I don't know.

I think that that's okay, Like, yes, our sex lives looked different when we wouldn't have to think about things like that. Yeah, that's okay.

That's still I think scheduling it in as parents is pretty legit.

Yeah, you have to, like we go to the other day, we're talking about it on an episode, and like it's nice for it to be spontaneous, but at the same time, the reality is like, yeah, it's like Friday, Saturday, night.

It's a kind of like Sunday.

Everyone's too worried about work on Monday.

Yeah, it's a Sunday research. We can't do it today exactly.

I do have to say congratulations for what you and Laura have achieved with Kick. It's unbelievable, unbelievable and I can't even begin to imagine how busy you must be. Does that play a big role in deciding whether or not you'll have a second Yeah, I.

So recently I've been able to have a bit more flexibility in my role. There was some stuff that I was kind of holding my role that wasn't necessarily my skill sets or not that they couldn't do them, but

They're working so well together, which is awesome.

It's meaning that I do have a little bit more flexibility now, so I am spending a little bit more time with Harvey and at.

Home and yeah, we definitely want a second.

And I think, wow, yeah, it's definitely I've worked out now how now that I've done it once and I can see it with one, I know the step to have two is very different. But I think by the time that would happen happy before anyway at least, so I feel like it's just it's been a nice right.

Three of us, and you're fine with the set with your second us we've had two.

It's kind of like job.

Experience, right, You've had the job experience and then you like get a new job, but you've done that's exactly the same job just about and you're like, I found that you're way more relaxed.

Yeah, for sure.

And you know what the you know, when you have your first kid and they're so little now you look out for the signs, it's like, what the fuck? What the fuck is that? And then now with the second kid, you like, there it is. You just know.

Well, I think that's the thing is that the hardest parts for me weren't in like losing myself or losing my life that I had before or whatever.

It was more just being anxious that I was doing the right thing, or that I was reading the right way or like so, I think because I will feel a little bit more comfortable going into it second time around, I'm hoping it will feel yeah, damn good because I love being a moment. So it's my favorite hat that I wear, hands down.

So yeah, that's awesome. And Harvey he's three now. Yes, I believe he is doing some time at day care. Yeah, how was that transition? Probably mainly for yourself, of course, but for Josh spending every day with him and then having to go, well, he go, I want you to.

Interact with kids your age as well. How was that transition?

Josh did the first drop off, which was actually okay because he was excited, but then the next drop off was like hell and yeah because he knew.

So Josh found that really really hard. Like I remember him like sobbing in the car and he just called me and.

I was like, Wow, this is really hard.

And I found it hard to because I wanted to be there for it, but I just couldn't with work. So I actually didn't do drop off for probably four or five months of him being there, and then I got to do it, So I was lucky he had a bit of practice, but it was very different.

Did you do it strategically so that it was like it was it was like same.

With your routine. It's Josh dropping every time.

May yes, but also with the time that I leave for work, it's just yeah, okay, it would have been just I mean, I could have definitely drop him off earlier, but it just worked for us that way, and I never finished in time to pick him up, and so when I was able to drop him off, it was really hard because then I experienced that whole drop off and yeah, he's only just got to a period now with me.

I've dropped him off more often now.

On Thursdays is my day where I drop him off, and he's used to it now, so it's finally good.

But for a long time, oh yeah.

Fuck, I hate that, and we all go we all go through those days. Like we've spoken about a day where I got back in the car to look back and Oscar was looking through the.

Fence and I was like, I remember I went back and got him.

Yeah, and I spent the day, Are you idiot?

He tricks me?

Funny.

We went to Fiji recently, which was amazing, and everyone was talking about how the daycarees, that the hotels are amazing, and.

Like it's just so good for kids.

But we dropped him off while I dropped him off, and that was the worst drop off ever, Like he was hysterical And the only reason I walked away was because there was another kid there that he met the first night. He was a bit older, and he was such a sweet kid. He obviously was like an older brother or something or wanted to be, and he took Harvey under his wing. And I was, I reckon the

On, Like I don't feel right either. Wow, And so I got into the spar appment.

Josh got there probably ten minutes after I'd dropped him off, and he was.

Still way long.

Breaks my heart, but yeah, So then what made it hard is we moved hotels and tried the daycare thing again, and he was just like, no, not happening.

And you know what, I get it.

It's a hard age I think three because he's highly aware that he has no idea.

Who these people are.

And you've never been in this environment before, so why am I here alone?

Whereas like the older kids were like yeah, fun, like.

There's a playground, it's good to be away from you.

Yeah.

Babies were just like, oh, someone passed me around.

Yeah.

So yeah, it was it was tough normal daycare. Now we're in a good place.

That's good. It is tough for any parent, Like we joke about it all the time.

How it's it's such a swift drop off now, but you have those days still.

Yeah, where they said that don't want to go?

Yeah, breaks your heart sometimes.

I was going to ask with the kickapp, I mean myself and Ash we've not used it before. Needs a transformation your words, not mine. If anyone did want to try out the kick app, how can they do that?

Well?

So, actually we have a free month code for your listeners.

Wow, next time you see me, I'm going to be jack guys us.

Yeah, there's plenty and even in our events, a lot of people bring their partners and stuff like that, and they get into it, especially with home workouts. I feel like, look, it's not targeted towards men, but like it's not like.

Specialized for women.

Yeah, you know you could definitely get a lot out of the workouts.

Why at me? All right? Sell it to me?

I think the code's dads and it'll get anyone listening a whole month.

Free to check it out.

But you just have to go to our website, which can go in the show notes and you just pop in that code and sign up to the monthly and you'll get that month. But there's everything from programs to on demand classes and recipes and meditations, so hopefully you'll.

Find something there you like, Wow, the new improved at Wicks.

I can't wait.

You're not going to be able to recognize me no time. I probably do one day and I'll.

Be like, O.

Steph. One last question before you go, because I know you have to get to the airport. You have a flight to catch, So just quickly, when Harvey is grown up and he's no longer living with you, is there anything that you would want him to remember about the house that he grew up in, Just that.

It was filled with love and fun.

I think is my I think I'm really fortunate that I have a lot of fond memories from my childhood and I'm really close with my parents now, I'm really close with my brother, and I love being able to reflect, like anytime people are talking about anything nostalgic, like anything child like, let me chat about me. So I just I hope that yeah, he lights up what he thinks of memories at home with the both of us, and that we can keep the bond that we have right now because I'm utterly obsessed with him.

I love it. That's very nice.

Keep doing such a great job.

Thank you so much for joining us too, and good.

Luck for when it is time for number two.

Yes, good luck with the logistics of that. Let me sell it to you, so thanks, thanks so much for listening.

Ash.

We always joking about getting.

Jet skis, but I still stand by that.

I think we need to definitely get those jet skis.

Let's just get one and I can hold onto your tired.

Body and that note, we've got to get out of here. If you enjoyed this episode, any episode from Two Doting Dads, please subscribe, leave a review.

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Two Doting Dad's podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and the connections to land, sea and community.

We pay our respects to their elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestraight Islander peoples today.

This episode was recorded on Gadagal Land