It's in the news today, but it was actually.
On TV Reload the podcast last week the line, Hey guys, welcome back to TV Reload. Thank you for clicking or downloading. On today's episode, with our first two eliminated Australian Survivor castaways, we will be talking about the twenty twenty four participants time in Samoa and of course what they think now that the smoke has well and really gone out of
their torches. Australian Survivor Titans Versus Rebels is a showdown that pits the winners against the underdogs and the big wigs against the battlers, with each player competing for the grand prize of half a million dollars. My first guest, Frankie, is from Bondi Beach, Sydney, New South Wales. Don't hold that against her. As one of the many athletic women
on the Titans tribe, Frankie bonded tightly with Nathan and Jaden. However, her overclickiness turned her less physically strong tribe mates against her, prompting a revolt that ended with her being blindsided. Fantastic TV if you ask me, and a big congratulations to her for bringing us a very engaging first episode. Frankie. He will give us her read on a few controversial topics like who didn't do their homework, who is gunning for the TV moments, and how well suited she was
to the Titans theme. I will address the cool group takedown directly, ask her if she lacks self awareness and if that played into her blind side. Plus I will throw in, you know, if she thinks that Jessica should have gone home instead of her. There is actually so much to unpack with Frankie, and she's really generous with her time. But stick around afterwards for Jessica and the second half of the podcast, as we will also unpack
her time in the series. Anyway, guys, let's bring Frankie into the podcast to sit back and relax as we dive just that little bit deeper into Australian survivor. Hi, Frankie, how are you.
I'm good?
How are you?
Nice to meet you?
So nice to meet you. I just want to start this podcast by saying to you, I love a confident woman. I could drink a tall glass of boss Bitch every day of the week.
Where were you when I needed you?
I know I'd love to have been on that show with you, I'd just be commenting about your hair. I'd be like, that is some Aaron Spelling melrose Place hair right there. I'm obsessed.
Look, it is what it is. I should have remembered that there's gonna be some first impressions that I should have looked out for.
Yeah, probably before we get actually into some of the finer points of the episode. What are your thoughts on watching it back last night? Like, how did you feel?
Honestly, I actually loved my edit. I don't care because I felt like it was very me so I felt like I could have I can say nothing, but I was myself. If anything, I was making myself smaller. So sorry to anyone who was annoyed by me.
I mean in Australian Survivors, you know history like social game requires making your opponent think that your friends without ever really showing your teeth. Do you think watching it back that you were a little bit obvious in showing your teeth.
Weirdly, like I said before, no, so only because I was actually trying my very best to talk to everyone. And then, as you can see, without getting too far the episode that some people felt picked up on that and they could see that they had to grab people now before people did start to like me because of my social game, And it was a pretty smart move on their behalf because I was playing social first and hiding my brain.
Well, I'm going to backtrack just a little bit with this. I mean, last year's season kind of felt like the whole Australian Survivor game really leveled up. How much of last year's you know, big Moves have affected the way in which these players are playing this year.
Oh, I definitely didn't think it would play too early because the thing people don't realize is when you are confident in yourself and you're a strong female or even a strong male or whatever, the biggest advice people give you going into this show is make yourself smaller. And so what people don't realize is that we are trying so hard to make ourselves smaller and we forget that sometimes the introverts also want us to lift them up. But it was you forget there's these other little parts
of it that somehow just become your responsibility. And so instead of them doing the social side, they just wanted to play big Moves off the bat, didn't they And good on them.
I mean I was kind of getting at the fact that, you know, with globally recognized television moments like George and Simon's showdown last year, I want to know your insight on this. Are they castaways this year that will try and eclipse those showdowns just to get that memorable TV moment?
One hundred percent. I'm not going to tell you who, but one hundred percent why not?
That's what we're here for. Frankie, come on, don't disappoint the hairs on flick. I need the truth.
Oh yeah, yeah, Look, there are going to be some people you need to watch out for, for sure, and I think they're going to be the people you least expect.
Do you think that there are players that have not watched Survivor before? I'm always interested in who hasn't done their homework?
Yeah, I would say probably probably Nathan to be honest.
To be looking in the mirror, and do you know what, Frankie, if he's looking in the mirror, and I would be too if I was him.
I think probably Nathan to be honest, because this this is the biggest thing is you can prepare yourself as much as you want to go on there but you forget you're not playing this game alone. So the moment you go on there, people might gravitate towards you, like I adore Nathan i adaor je eight, and I love those boys. There's such the great energy boys, and so is Winner. But you forget at the moment that you're there.
If they gravitate towards you, they are also part of your gameplay, and you can't just shut people out from the start. You just have to try to scramble and figure something else out to do. But I just didn't get the time.
How well suit did you think everyone is matched to this particular theme? Does everyone make a good titan? Does everyone make a good rebel? What's your take on that.
I think it really comes down to what you would define those things as. So, yeah, there's a big part of me that was probably meant to be on rebels because if you went off appearance alone and attitude alone. But hey, Raymond took my spot on that, like you saw last night, So there's a little industry bit for you. And I think look, at the end of the day, it's very clear in our tribe that we do have a lot of bosses and not enough teamwork.
Okay, yeap, that is definitely coming through. I mean Titans is being sort of shown as bosses, overachievers, masters of their craft. How hard do you how hard do you lean into the theme once you're given your theme? Because I can imagine if you were given either of them, you'd be like, Okay, I get that and I'm going to lean hard. Did you then lean lean hard into the Titan status?
To be honest, no, because I felt like being a hairdresser, people were very quick to be like and like try to say off the comments, but people are like, how come a hairdresser is a title? And I'm very big on well, because I opened my own business and I worked my butt off to do anything I've done in my life, and I did it with my own brains, my own hands, and that's what I did, and so
I think that's what made me a Titan. But in this particular situation, I actually had to keep my mouth shut and sleep on the floor because I'm telling you now that if I was the bossy person that I was, wo'd have been sleeping in the taj Mahal, not in the doghouse. As Be likes to say.
Brankie can I ask my hairdresser, you need to be a Titan to mess with this shit. I am on you, you know what I mean, Like it's in that is a tough job. People don't realize the expectation level that people come in to a hairdresser. You, my friend, are a titan, and I.
Run a team of hairdressers and I run it a sull on full thousands of clients. It's managing expectations the entire time. And so for myself here, I wish I did have more time to lean into all of that. But I really didn't see myself as being such a big threat. I was just being myself.
Well, I was very excited about your presence on this show. I felt like you were the Disney villain that this show needs. Like I felt like you did your job so well, because you know, you go and do reality and then you see the producers and you think, oh, did I do a good job. I think any producer would have loved what you did, because if you were watching the forums social media last night, it was a
fantastic launch episode. It was so juicy, and it does come down to the fact that you play hard and we're really good television thank you.
I would do it all over again. Honestly, it was like it was great being a part of it. And I think, I think I just didn't have a problem talking. I guess that, hey, there's a titan move for you if you want to talk comfortably in front of a camera, become a hairdresser.
Absolutely. I mean I was excited for some more sort of Aaron Spelling kind of villainry from you, because I thought that you had some really charismatic moments, like maybe a little tad obvious, and viewers were calling you out for that, but I was here for that, like I want people on television to be exciting, you know what I mean? And what have we been robbed from? Though? What were you planning had you not been eliminated in that tribal council?
Well, like I said from the start, you don't you forget about other people coming towards you. And my plan all along was surely not going to vote me up first, because we're losing challenges and we're going to need to win some challenges and get some good morale. And I had started making relationships with the Double V's and with Caroline and Kitty and started chatting to like Charles and Eden ah bit. I probably should have chatted to Mark a little bit more, but I did start like creating
these little connections with people. It's such a fast paced moment in the beginning. You've got to remember that, Like you guys get to see forty eight hours shoved into one hour, and that first bit like it's like the first part of any school project. But we're just all trying to find our feet. But if I did it had and if I was to stay longer, I definitely had some moves that I would have pulled out, But hey, I can't say them now. They might get me back on another day.
I'm here for that if that happens. By the way, I'm signing the petition. I thought that the conveyor belt idea was a really smart idea in the first challenge, but jlp alluded to there being too many captains and not enough soldiers. Who do you think pickled that challenge trying to stand out the most as a leader.
I'm not going to say names, because I know you'd love me too.
That's what I need. What do you mean, don't come on my Juicy Saucy podcast and give me sugar? Free coke.
I can allude and you can fill in the gaps because at the end of the day, I think just as much as we were told as big personalities to always make ourselves smaller, there is a lot of people who are introverted on there that wanted to make themselves bigger, and I think in those moments they wanted to take charge and show that they could do challenges and not just be nerdy guys.
I mean, you've been accused online for creating a cool group, and let me tell you, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I feel like, you know, I didn't see you going, hey, let me put together a cool group. I kind of feel like it just gravitated that way. But you know, watching it back, did you feel like you were creating a cool group at the time. I mean, I don't know what your impression of all of that was.
Truthfully, absolutely not, because if you actually pay close attention, and I'm sure a lot of the Survivor fans do I just agree and talk, I don't. I'm actually not one putting things out there. I'm one standing there going oh interesting, who's that? Oh okay, no worries and listening to people and letting people do the talking and I'm
actually gathering information. People might gravitate towards me because I do have a big energy, but like I would never say that I'm a mean girl, and I would never say that I create this type of cool group vibe and if I do, great, let's create one outside too.
My only thing I'm going to take you to task on that is But did you realize that there was some clear underdogs? I think even Eden said it as some people I can only assume are incredibly smart, and so those people on the sidelines, like Charles, Nathan, Jessica and Mark, those people that were sitting there, How did you feel about them at the time. Were you unaware of the fact that they were starting to pull together and that they might be going to challenge you.
I had my eye on Charles on Eden quite a lot, and to be honest with you, they definitely didn't get left aside. Maybe towards the end when I felt the need to not talk too much and try to do the easy vote, I probably should have talked to them more and made sure it was locked in. I wouldn't have given them a lest where they were on the bottom of it, but I would have loved to work with them more because they are actually the type of people I loved to work with in real life too.
I love people who are quirky and unique. I think I love people holding their own to who they are.
Hierarchies are though that word to people of that personality type greats on them, do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like they're they weren't the popular people at school, and some of those words like hierarchy and stuff still gets them on their back, you know what I mean? So I wondered, I think.
That's where Yeah, no, I definitely said sorry it to interrupt you, but I think that's where there was some mistakes made. And do you know what. I wasn't the popular kid at school either. I played the flute, I was fifty kilos heavier than I am now, like I was in the I was in band camp all the time. I wasn't the popular kid at school. And this is
why I would have spent more time with them. But I think what they need to realize is that anyone, if they go into this show, needs to realize is that people make places for you, and so people instantly just assumed that I was that person without getting to know me, and people assumed because what the hot jock was giving me attention, then that must have been me, Like I've got a beautiful boyfriend out here waiting for me, Like I couldn't care less.
The people playing along with this podcast are happy with the fact that I skipped over the American Pie references there and just kept going with the flow. I was a band camp. I had a flute, and I was like, I have what you set up for that. I was trying to keep up, Keep up, Benjamin, what's wrong with you? What about this dynamic duo relationship that you have with Nathan? Do you think that's going to affect his game moving forward because he's aligned with you and you've been booted.
Do you think now he's a little bit exposed.
Yeah, and I think I think he can hold his own. I think people don't give him as much credit as he deserves. He's got a lot of ideas. That boy, he had a lot of ideas. It was me actually being like, stop talking about them, because that's what's actually going to get you in trouble, Like stop coming to me with already having ideas, because people are going to pick up on that. At the end of the day, you should, like in the beginning, you should hang around
the group a little bit more. But we didn't have a shelter, and the only people that could cut down trees were me, him and Jayden.
True. I mean, he did have one good idea, and that was definitely those blue speeders. I don't know whose idea that was one, one good idea for an episode, and I'm here for it.
And that's the thing is, like, I think I think Nathan is a lot more calculating than people give him credit for. Hopefully you'll see some of that.
The definition though, of a blind side is Nathan saying he was looking forward to the tribal council. I was like, that's the definition of a lead up to that, I could see all of those survivor nerds in the background.
Like, this is the thing is, I'm not sure if you thought during that blindside, but the amount of times I look over at the girls because the girls were originally and then the other four girls that turned on me like we'd all agreed, right, and so the amount of times that I just all of a sudden just start looking at them and they just wouldn't give me eye contact, and I knew.
I just knew that was my next question. I was really curious about it. I was really curious about that because I was thinking, I think you felt a certain way going into tribal council, But then when did the penny drop for you?
Like?
When did was it those girls?
How you had actually dropped me beforehand? I probably should say that, but it actually dropped to me. And there's a part of me in that episode where I say, I'm nervous about this one because my name is being thrown around, and so there was a big part of me that it had dropped beforehand. And I know I can sit here and say that because it's been on and I don't want to look like I've been blindsided.
But there was a part of me that was like, should I cause a fuss now or if I do and I'm wrong, I'm now not only strong and being social, but I'm trying to play too hard, so just shut up? And that was it play hard or go home, And apparently I just did both.
No, I think you did. I mean, I still want to go back to that point of this episode wouldn't have landed as well. As it did if it wasn't for you being in there, Like this episode came together and producers that make these shows love contestants like you. Now, this is the most brutal thing I'm going to say in this is this interview. Would you say that Nathan and yourself came off looking like you lack self awareness? What did you think? Do you think that you came off.
I think that the episode last night can show that. But I don't think that I lacked as much self awareness as people may think I did. But I just think I didn't know how to handle what was happening because I didn't want to be wrong.
Could we talk about Nathan's like of self awareness? Does he have lack of self awareness? Do you think? Oh?
Slightly?
I think he slightly does, But that's because he's just he's like the personality higher right, Like he honestly was getting everyone laughing and he hadn't really seen the show, and even like, even when I was chatting to him last night, I was literally just like, you do not list people in an order. If you do, you do the opposites like and so like, at the end of the day, we were all there to have fun, Yes,
it was a game. Yes, there was like half a million dollars on the line, But it is as much as fans would love to believe it's his big set and we're all just going home to a hotel. It's brutal out there. If someone's going to make you laugh, you can't hold it in. You've had You've had a day of challenges and a day of heat, and a day of no food or whatever. Like himman Jayden Jayden is, Oh, he is funniest and honestly, like, you just can't hide that laughter.
Yeah, it's a needed thing. I think people don't realize how a bad it is. A friend of mine did it. I think it was last year, the year before, I can't remember, but he it took a while for him to recover after doing the show, and he had he was a super fan. He'd been wanting to do the show for a very long time, and he was shocked
by the conditions. Like you can watch it on television and you can play it on a board game in your home, but no one can get you to understand the weather conditions or the lack of sleep, or the lack of food. It is.
It's the lack of sleep.
It's the lack of sleep that gets out because like I just remember laying there and we were like, is that pink and the sky yet?
Does that mean that?
Does that mean that sun's nearly up? Like we were not sleeping, and that's the worst have Kelly like doing a bucking bushed off around us, but at least at least we didn't have that happening. But we definitely weren't sleeping. And like, you don't realize if you're not sleeping and other people aren't sleeping, that means there's also connections being made there, so you try to keep yourself away.
And that kills that does kill that is that is one of those things where you're like, nothing good happens after twelve o'clock. Hang on a sec, I don't know if it's twelve o'clock, Like you know, yeah.
You're sitting there and you're like, could we figure out the time? You're like, how do you tell the time? But it's yeah, it's I don't think people realize that laughter and they all loved it, like everyone was having a good laugh. That laughter means something because you it is you haven't spoken to family. It is cold, but it's also hot. And it's also like why there's so many bugs and why the crap?
So you just need I don't even know bugs could get under my fingernails deep, Like what is going on? You know? I want to quickly round this podcast off by just asking you this question, which everyone's been left discussing over the next ten hours or so that's followed since I've spoken to you this morning. Should Jessica have gone home? And who do you think made the biggest effort to save her that probably regrets it now.
Jess should have gone home, no doubt about that in my mind. And to be honest with you, I don't think any and saved her. Oh I think everyone just wanted to pull a move. Okay, I don't think it was about saving her.
But come on, like, Frankie, do you know what I don't understand? This is what I'm shocked. Why on earth? Like I would never have gotten rid of you. You are so strong, You've got so much personality, you know. I don't know, like maybe I'm on the outside of the popular opinion with this, but I just would never have gotten rid of you. You facilitated a need, you brought physical strength, and you are smart. I just would have kept you.
I think it was a silly move getting rid of me first, because there is no doubt in my mind now there is a huge target on Marks back if you can pull that sort of move in the beginning, Like what do you think people are going to realize? I just think you play your hands too early and what just because you maybe didn't like me, or I didn't chat to I'm sorry that you won't call at school or whatever. It was like, it's like, I'm I'm sorry, it was my responsibility to chat to you so much
in the beginning. But it's if you're going to pull a move like that, and I'm sorry, Mark, if you're hearing this that comes across as hush, but you better have some things to back it up for another forty six days, because there was a target in my back, my social skill and maybe for being a big threat and whatever. But people would have forgotten about that down
the track. They would have just been like, we've got to get rid of a strong one, and they maybe wouldn't have been seeing the other things I was doing. But I wouldn't have played my cards that early.
No, I think there's some big regrets going down. Just before you leave the pod, I want to ask you something and ask everyone who joins the podcast, and that is what's something from behind the scenes, something that you're expecting to maybe see on the show that we didn't get a chance to see.
Oyah. I can give you two little quick ones. One would just be just what happens at night, because there's so much they can do because it's a PG show, But just what happens at night, because the amount of bonding that does happen, like unfortunately they probably shouldn't show this on TV, but Jaden being so big and using the machete to cut a cocoonut in his hand and things like that, and we're just laughing and all like having time on the beach, Like those sort of things
are beautiful memories. I definitely think that's that and we And to be honest with you, there were so many other things that Lathan I could have gotten be trouble for, like when we we, I kept getting the two v's names mixed up and so like little things like that. I thought I may have been dragged for a little bit more because someone would be like, what do you think this be? And I would say the wrong person and they're like, no, that's my good friend, and I
was like, oh god, I'm screwing this up already. A lot more laugh that happened, I would say, And they're the things that people don't get to see, the bonding moments that do happen with all these people.
I'm obsessed with you. I hope they bring you back, and I hope that you pick up on a few of those moves that maybe didn't land as well so that you can stay longer, because I would be here for that. But congratulations on getting onto Australian Survivor, and congratulations on the fact that people would be talking about you even though you did one episode.
Literally that's it, you know, be entertaining at least.
I hope you enjoyed that chat with Frankie. I feel like she was quite relaxed and fun to talk to.
Next up, we have Jessica from Melbourne. After surviving a rocky start that almost caused her to be the first person voted out, Jessica was led to believe that she was there ahead of her majority alliance on the Titans tribe, and her misplaced confidence prompted her to direct the Titan's second vote against Eden, unsuccessfully in rallying the numbers and further bearing herself by boasting about her orchestrating of the previous vote, and obvious Jessica found herself given the boot instead.
Oh no, I actually think today's guests brought a really big punch to the launch week of Australian Survivor, and I want to congratulate jess as well for playing really hard. Jessica will unpack the first tribal council and the aftermath that followed. Nearly all of the players had some kind of an interaction with Jessica before her time was up,
and that was actually really interesting to watch. I will offer Jessica a theory about what might have saved her, and we will talk about that invisible hand and in fact, if it was invisible anyway, guys, let's bring Jessica into the podcast to sit back and relax as we dive just that little bit deeper into the world of Australian Survivor. Hi, jess how are you right, Ben?
How are you?
I'm very well. I think if you're going to go and apply for Survivor and get on a show like this, you should go hard. Row a few bombs.
I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory than go out early where they're trying to pip off some players that they consider maybe not as physically strong as others, but have done nothing. So I've only watched a couple of the Survivor seasons. Maybe didn't actually work to an advantage. I think I want to be better just to stay towards not knowing anything.
Out and play naive Oh my god, I don't know.
What I'm doing and getting taken along by people that go, oh, you know what. Naivety is a strength for us because we can tell her what to do, as opposed to her having opinions.
Kind of adds to the conversation of all or nothing. Can either watch every single episode or you're watching none at all and just turn up in this universe.
You know, evidently there's no time to watch it all.
By the time that I'd started considering what I was doing, the conversations about going on to Survivor started in January.
Didn't apply. Maybe fear the normal routes.
They really ropped off those conversations again until about three weeks beforehand, and I got a call saying, are you still around.
Are you overseas? We need someone? Can you?
Can you send us your CV? So my application was actually my CV, so clinical, yes, send us you know, you know what.
You've done before of a job.
Just sell us that you're a Titan of Academia and we'll see if you can go in. So yeah, Like that conversation happened about a Friday, three weeks before it started, and I had another I think I had an interview online. I picked the Monday, and it was done by the Wednesday, so very quick. The fact that it had been on my radar is something that might happen if I was around.
That had happened a couple of months earlier. But I went, oh, yeah, I'll watch a bit of this, and then just didn't commit training myself as much as like I was like the slack student that I normally teach. I didn't do my homework as well as I probably could have.
I want to talk about some of the intricate aspects of this first week, but I want to know, though, from you, how is this week watching your time on the show, Like what has your life been like a coaster?
Like I'm used to watching myself or hearing myself do media work anyway. I do a lot of media related work for nutrition research and just scientific communication, So like that didn't come as a surprise.
I know what I look and sound like. But then seeing how you were edited.
In this character, that was a bit much. So yeah, very much a roller coaster. I was very excited Monday before the premiere watch the premiere on the edge of my seat, so stressful. I'm going, I know what happened? Why am I stressing out? And I was semi mortified at the edit that I was being given because I'm going, I am normally well, my whole ethos and persona is about promoting women in science and trying to get more
women and girls in science. I mean very like, very much a supporter of strong women and powerful women at that. And then I am quite extroverted and bubbly as well, so I'm going, why am I coming off as antisocial woman?
That's so not the vibe.
And then I just was filled with dread yesterday beforehand.
Because I'm going, holy crap.
Like, obviously I've given enough content, and some of it's just zoom into my face, look at and I'm looking at places I'm like, well, that's just anyone can be zoomed in at with their eyes darting around. I think that doesn't scream paranoid. That just screams they're looking at shit. But the next night, I well, you know, last night, when I got voted out, I just thought, you know what, I got voted out as someone who shows that I stand my ground when I'm saying something that I've done.
I will own my ship. I will be truthful and transparent. And some tribe mates might think, you know, let's keep a person around that tells us where they're at without throwing other people on the bus on the way. Maybe that person is a good person to have around. Do you know what they're thinking? They'll literally tell you. But instead, Yeah,
that wasn't That wasn't what was valued. They Yeah, I decided to take another route instead, But I was happy to come across and finish of the person that was too honest for my own good.
Well, I just thought some of those dramatic head turns in that tribal council were iconic. They will live rent free in my head for the rest of my life. What was running through your head? You kind of were looking back at Nathan and you were looking back at people. It was, yeah, it was really interesting.
I got that in the middle, and you know, the position I think says a lot about what's going to happen, not always so that they do change it up, but I'm in the middle.
And at the start I was like crap, I'm in the middle, Like what does this mean? Does this mean that?
Like, I'm in the middle because again I'm stirring, you know what everyone's doing. And then it came very apparent, very quickly that I was in the middle for a full pylon. So you do see three peoples having a goal at me, being Nathan, Charles and Eden, and you know, that was a lot more than what makes yet it in terms of what they had to say.
But actually preceding this is Viola having.
A full goal, like to the point that I was like scared. I was sitting next to her and she turns around and says something about me being hypocritical and this and that, and I'm such a liar, going, what what are you talking about? Because she'd heard that I put her name out there, and like, obviously this is not shown because there's no evidence of that.
I have, at no time put the old.
That's why it's not in the story. You know, the producers will put that in there. It's like the old saying on the Real Housewives of whatever franchise. They say, if they've said it, we're going to put it on camera, you know.
So she's having a crack at me when I say it like no and kind of give her her that piece. That's when I get Nathan saying, but you put the votes on Frankie. And so what everyone else sees when they watch it is that conversation, and I turn and I go, well, yeah, And some people might think, well, what the fuck would she just own up to that?
Why not lie? First of all, I can't lie to save myself.
But I just told someone lack and Blue, I did not do that, and I know that she knew that I had loaded on Frankie. So I can't then turn around and go, oh, no, I didn't do that either, because that would just absolutely undo any integrity or truthfulness that I've just tried to establish with Viola. After that comes Charles going and you put my name out there too, and I'm like, what the.
Hell is going on?
Absolutely did not I say to him, No, I didn't Charles, because at that point, I'm just pissed off, like, oh, here we go, here's another one.
Like, guys, you're not all that special. I'm not throwing everyone's names out. And I say, no, I.
Didn't, but I know I know who did, because yeah, he's aimed, didn't get brought.
Up, wasn't by me?
And then I've got Eden that says and you put mine out there too, and I go, yeah, I did, so I thought, you know what, I My head was spinning all those movements, but I was trying to distinguish fires in left and right center all around me, and I just thought it was pretty much going no, yes, no, guess trying to explain my way out of it. And yeah, probably could have done that a little bit better than I did, evidently.
But you know what, your transparency though in that tribal council was George Television, you know, putting your cards on the table like that was almost really unfamiliar to the usual chats that we see with Jonathan. Was that a planned Yeah, it was that a planned way. Did you think that's what was going to happen in that tribal cancel or was that then a part of a final scramble.
It was definitely part of a final scramble, but I still think I could have done it better than I did.
I was still first.
Of all, I didn't expect the pile on that I got, So I'm trying to deal with that, and literally it coming from two people on the bottom seats two people on the top seats at me like it was in all directions. So whilst trying to go, holy crap, what is happening and how do I navigate this? I thought, well, honestly is the best policy. I think hopefully in this situation, enough people here know what I have done or haven't done that if I just starts going, yeah, I'll spill the beans and.
What I did. I will completely own what I did because lying.
About it is not going to earn me any favors. And I look like I'm about to go home. Maybe if people here go holy crap, she's owning her shit in a way that wasn't throw out anyone else under the bus, so maybe that would be value.
I hoped that you were going to get away with it. I actually thought if you had, I've been able to get away with that tactic, because that's what I thought
you were aiming at. So it's a good question for me to have asked, because you were trying to level up and say to people, I can give you transparency, and that transparency at an early stage of the game might be a little bit misguided because you probably don't have as many relationships that you would have later on in the game if you tried to make that move land Because like.
And I wish I had done.
If I had my time again, I would have spent another thirty seconds speaking to Charles, because I think Charles is someone who has got really strong morals, is quite loyal, and he's the type of person that's the type of person I want.
Around me, at least at that stage.
And it was actually Nathan who put Charles's name out there, and I wish I just said no, I didn't, but Nathan did, and I was really caught up and going, Okay, if I want to sell myself with someone that's got a high level of integrity that to keep around throwing people under the bus isn't probably going to land.
Wow, it wasn't a long game. It's not a long game when all of a sudden you go hang in a sec. But he did she did whatever, that's the point where you're kind of losing your own agency, I think, is you know basic exactly. I wanted to ask you about the first episode because I kind of felt like, you know, you escaped your first elimination at the tribal council. What do you think though, separated you and Frankie in
getting eliminated? Well now in hindsight, because in some ways you walked out of that tribal cancel and felt like the master manipulator that pulled it off. However, now that you've sort of watched it back, I just wonder what you thought might have separated that vote.
Watching it back, I'm not convinced that the order that maybe it's shown him was the order that events occurred in. I could be I could be wrong, who knows what conversations were going on behind my back, But definitely, the moment we got into the scramble, like we got back on the beach after that challenge, the group peels off in two directions. We've got three people that immediately within thirty seconds go into the water together and another nine
that are together. And it's sort of in those like first minutes that the idea of Frankie actually comes up now.
The pitch to.
Eden and Mark and was made in this sort of way because I understood that they were people that could manipulate the situation and was happy to think that, you know, you can ride this wave and claim it. And I absolutely knew that they would. They would say that they were influencers. Well, I influenced the influencer. So at the end of the day, who really influenced that vote?
I don't know.
We can debate to the cows come, but I spoke to them and my actual pitch was to break up that brawny three and I said.
I don't really this is going to be really, really boring.
If what happens is three people that are really strong recruit other three that they know are going to be lower on the list, then they start pipping everybody off and you can see that Nathan then starts having those conversations and trying to recruit. So I knew that that was exactly what they were going to do, and I said, we can throw a bomb at this early and reset and just change that dynamic and get that power back
a little bit. And that uncertainty that comes with not knowing whether you're actually in that close three sort of alliance, so evidently got to work together. So I put down or suggest Frankie or Nathan, and they said, do you have a preference.
My preference was Frankie.
And at that time it was because I thought they might value Nathan's, you know, more strength. They're both very strong people, but more so than Frankie. On the first night there as well, we are all talking about the physical and the intellectual, the endurance strength that we bring to challenges, and we had three women actually say literally the same thing. It was we lift strong shit. And I'm going, all right, well, there's three of you that
lift strong shit. Cool, Like, we've probably got that covered.
Hey.
So the pitch then came more.
We've got three people here that are pretty much saying that that's what they bring to a challenge.
Do we need three? And the conversations then go about Frankie.
There were some other people that you know, sided maybe some personality issues there where they didn't necessarily get along with her at the start, granted her and I probably didn't have many conversations for me to get that far with her due to the times constraint nature of it all, and I think that's where it all came from.
I felt very confident going to that.
I was like ninety nine percent certain I wasn't going home the edits where you know, I am the person that looks like they're all gunning for.
I think happened.
Once we all knew that were going for Frankie and I knew that they had then caught wind of that and where it were pitching me, and I was sort of happy for everyone to just pretend that that was what was going on. It was risky for me because if something happened, I've put my name on the chopping block. But I was very confident and going into that JLP's asking if I'm confident, I'm just in there quietly smiling and thinking, Oh, she's just as confident, So maybe I am the full but I'm pretty sure.
I've got this discovered. And it was and quite a.
Good way, I think at one to have your name pulled out the first time and to think that you've got complete control.
Over the fact that your name is there. I knew it was there. I was totally fine with it because I thought this is good. It was a good way to pull rip that bad daid off.
You know, it's so funny watching you on the show and even talking to you. Now, you remind me a lot of myself in some way. And then I use a lot of words to describe things, and then I'll talk really fast because I've got a longer way of explaining things, and over time people have cut me off, so I felt like I've got to get it out faster. So I'm just speeding up my because I'm like, I've got good things to say, and now I just.
Want to be like Geers everything you should know, but I'm gonna give it to you like in five seconds.
Yeah, they give us twenty minutes for a chat, right, and then you're like, okay, let's just unpack your entire survivor experience in twenty minutes. And you're like, oh my god, it's a lot. But I will say Mark's duality, you know, looked real. It kind of looks obvious, and this happens with survivoral a lot, you know, especially for the viewers.
But it was really clear when you were unpacking the tribal Council from Frankie's elimination that you were kind of oblivious to his narrative that there was this invisible hand, which I guess is an invisible hand, of course, But what I want to know is, then when you're watching the show back and you can see that there's a very clear there's even a term for it, invisible hand, how do you feel about that kind of I guess gameplay.
Not surprised, surprise it was used on me.
I knew that that Mark was obviously going to be a stevy player, and I think when I am eliminated, they say who will win if it's a tired and I'm like, well, Mark, because I saw that he had such intellect and strength in the way that he did communicate, and he's a bloody diplomat, like he can influence situations.
He's really clever in that respect. I just didn't think he was playing me.
And the footage is him and Eden going off, and you're going, oh, like, evidently they're working together.
That was done very well because I do say or no one knows that this is happening. I didn't know that was happening.
I don't know about the rest, but that was completely novel to me. I knew more I did that Eden was more erratic, but I didn't think Marks was so, and I really did trust Mark.
I would have conversations with Mark where he made me feel.
Like he was really genuine, really lovely supportive of what I want to do, what he wanted to do, would have these really great collaborative conversations, and it turns out it was completely facade.
Do you know what's interesting about you as a personality type? And I guess this comes from being an educator. There's a real leadership quality that comes to you very effortlessly, and we got to see that in the way that
you're addressing JLP about Frankie's exit. But then I also felt, in hindsight watching you being able to own so much of maybe Frankie's demids in your own words, kind of felt like you were walking off a plank, because for a lot of Survivor players, they know not to stand that far out of a pack and own too much agency over a particular move. I wond not watching that back where you are making and we all know that there's a lot more conversations that JLP is having with
the entire pastaways before an actual challenge. We know that everyone's getting a lot to say, and then we get the edit of you know what's being said. I just feared for you that you walked yourself off a plank at that point.
And that's maybe where doing my homework would have come in handy knowing the game that little bit more than I did, because you're right, like my like, I.
Am a leader by like occupation.
I also, you know, in my job do a lot of talking to people as opposed to at them. I literally lecture and give feedback and things like that, and I think I needed to be a bit more aware of that and dial it back that little bit more.
And yeah, was happy to say, oh, yeah, like we did this, celebrate.
These successes and move forward where yeah, I could have played it a bit more sneaky, but it doesn't come to me as naturally as Mavie others. You know, if I have my time again, you know, if by some survivor god fate, I end up ever back there, I will play things a very difficult.
I'd love to see those dramatic head turns again. I love to see a mad scram And there are people in this game that are the super fans, and I mean Eden really is showing that in the whole Are you not entertained this very dramatic moments that he's creating, you know, I mean, I'm I was a little bit terrified by him doing that. I was worried, if you're okay? And then when I read the blogs, people were like,
he's leaning into that. So maybe that's more clever when you are a super fan to put your hand up and wink to the audience and say, hey, I'm doing this for you.
And look, I never thought I would win Survivor. I was never under that illusion.
I did though, going going, all right, Well, how can I get up each day and do and actually do something? And you know if players that have considered maybe not as physically strong than others are voted out faster than others in some cases, well can I go out in a blaze of glory or can I just wake up and try to survive each day and try to get to maybe, you know, the eighth tribal cancel and go out and everyone go on, Who's Jess?
So you know, I'd rather have been.
Someone who got two episodes of airtime because I actually did something as opposed to nothing at all.
But yeah, if I had my time again, maybe I would.
Scale back on a couple of things. I'm an avid, lifelong learner.
It's all about what I promote, and I have learned lessons myself from this.
We learned lessons from watching you. We certainly did, because, like I think, in a way like Mark Eden, Charles Viola, Valeria, Caroline and Kitty makeup. You know they make up. I don't know, how do you describe that sort of the misfits,
uncool but cool superfan group. And now that you kind of now that you kind of know that, I kind of feel like your boot was inevitable because the only way you could have survived at this point of the game was if you had said nothing at this point after that first elimination and disappeared into their uncool but core group.
And that's it.
I'm like, I can go misfit, but I'm not uncool. I'm not cool enough to be the Superman group. I was just pure misfit and I don't think that for me anywhere.
Yeah.
Look, I do remember saying one of my individual interview things that, like, after the first.
One, I was like, oh, this is not how I wanted to start things. I wanted to lay low what is my problem? Why am I? Why am I like this, why do I have to lead shut up for the second one? And then of course second one.
Rolls around, and I don't shut up because of who I am as human, but I just I kind of wish that I had taken that backseat. And something that probably is one of the reasons that I do make suggestions is because you get to these tribal you know, post elimination challenge scrambles, and people are going.
I don't know, I don't know what to do.
I like everybody and just waiting for somebody else to say what they want, and I don't fuck around like and time is ticking if no one's got an opinion on something as much as them trying to get things out of them, or like, you know, there might be a whole bunch of people and five people are going, oh, we don't know.
I'll go ow about this.
As a scientist, I find solutions to problems, and I would offer up a solution, But of course then that gets you dubbed to someone who's, oh my god, you're having an opinion, So you know, you either had to completely shut up or not not have an opinion at all. I think in those early stages, no one wants to be the target, and people will try to fly under the radar until they feel a little bit more secure in that game.
I feel like Nathan when he lets slip in that tribal council, though, you know, he kind of said that they needed to correct almost I'm paraphrasing here because this isn't exactly what he said, but we're correcting the elimination that could have happened the night before. And once he said that, did you then know that you were going home?
Definitely had those vibes, but I was just kind of going, Nathan, I don't think everyone loves you, so.
Who knows what they don't say.
I was taking with the grain of salt, being like, yeah, you think you've got it under control.
I don't know if you necessarily do. Nathan says a lot of things.
So, but our constructs in the real world don't actually apply to Survivor. So a man like Nathan who and wear blue speedos and look phenomenal will win over a bar full of chicks wanting to have a drink with him, but won't work in Survivor. You know, you, being a highly educated educator is somebody in the world in the real world that would be valued differently as well, but we strip everyone of who they are in the real
world with this experiment. It's interesting then to see how the cream rises to the top.
Absolutely, and then that's it.
When I did come back, when the dean of science at the university goes to me, how do you go, Jess, and' like like.
Not really, well, like on the d L and I go, I was too honest and you know, had some integrity in this is that?
And he's like, oh yeah, so like great for science, We'll keep you here, stick to your day job, not for Survivor.
I'm like, yeah, I'd still watch you on other shows. I'd watch you back on Survivor, So don't give up, don't give up your ambitions for reality TV.
If I do go on back on, people can go, oh, yeah, that's a girl that tells you what she's thinking, So maybe we'll keep her around because like we'll know what.
I love it. I'd love it. I think, you know for future play, they'd love that too. And as I said to you earlier, had you been able to come forward with that kind of honesty and that gameplay later on, I think it would have worked. But you just didn't have the numbers. That was the only issue. And I think you were just unaware of how many people had grown grouped into the uncool cool group, do you know what I mean? And it's really interesting with these shows.
It doesn't matter what show. These reality programs put people in a situation like this where there's elimination, people will slap a cool group name on something or an actual fact. You know, those people aren't usually cool people in real life.
Let them have their moment, let them be cool for that moment. That's fine.
Connects to the audience in a way that is so celebrated, and that's fine too. But there is a lot of people watching this show who I think are like, yes.
I did get a few messages of different either past players or super fans, go dying, Yes, we'll going yes for the misfits. Don't try to get out the person at the start because you've gone, oh, they're weak in the disposable, like, We're glad that you were able to get through that situation.
It's I wasn't able to do it again.
And I think it's a Batman turns quote. But things change, you know, people change very quickly anyway. With that kind of embarrassing quoting of a culture movie. I need to move on to asking you my final question, which is what is something from behind the scenes, something that we as an audience didn't get a chance to see.
Yeah, like, I.
Think I've already mentioned some of them, you know, a bit more context for those conversations and what's happened at Tribal to lead me to being so adamant in telling the truth, you know, coming back people actually say and look super fans go of course, but people that maybe Anna's engaged with the show, like, but was it real?
Did you really not eat? Did you really sleep on the floor? And like, yes, one hundred percent all of those things are real. It is bloody rough.
And you know, it's so easy to go back and look at these episodes and go, oh, well I would have done X, Y Z, because I look back and go, oh, well, now that I know, I would have done all of.
These amazing things. But you don't freaking know, like to be in there when you are starved and hungry and you know a bit it was only five days. You make decisions that you might not might not be completely rational, and the way it's edited together doesn't always look rational, but you make the best decision with the information.
You've got available to you. And you know everyone else sees the whole story. We don't, so you know that in itself was a learning experience for me.
And if anyone's going, oh what really happens, yeah, it's the whole thing is a mind fuck.
So imagine the auditive version if we had to see everyone's narrative, do you know what I mean? Like twenty four players, a lot of narrative just without you being in this series. I actually don't know whether or not this first week would have been as exciting. You really added some quality to this show. And I think what I've seen online is a lot of new people coming
to Survivor and getting in early. And Survivor by nature is a show that usually takes a while to get their audience hook, where I think you and Frankie, both of you have given us something very juicy and very fun to watch. And I think you should be very proud of yourself. And I know producers would say the same thing because you deliver it.
That's it.
They just want to make polity TV, and hey, we can give deliver blind Side after Blindside and have everyone else in the seats the edge of their seat, then yeah, happy, happy to be the second person out.
If that's that's why I wish my hair was longer than over the hair Flix. I just was looking at those head flicks and I just was obsessed with it. But I'm obsessed with hair. So I've told Frankie the same thing.
Now.
Every I'm listening to my podcast is like that queer man with the obsession for ladies hair. You know, get a life, enjoy chatting to the media, and thank you so much for your generosity with your time chatting with me today. Yeah, I thought you were fantastic, so
Yeah, I really appreciate it.