It's in the news today, but it was actually on TV Reload the podcast last week. They might welcome back to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris, and on this podcast I go behind the scenes with the biggest players in television. Each episode you will get a front row seat with content makers like executive producers, writers, editors, and casting agents, plus the talent that we see on our screens.
TV Reload reloads the shows that you are currently watching and gives you a better insight at our television industry and streaming services today. On the podcast, I have the greatest Big Brother housemate Australia has ever seen. He may polarize his viewers, but the love for Tim far outweighs the hate. And one thing I know about Tim Dormer is his truth packaged up with mischief and intelligent insight
is always great entertainment. Back in twenty thirteen, Tim played Big Brother so well I felt like no one was ever going to come close to his celebrated win, and in some ways they've really haven't. Sadly, our relationship has had less bumps in the road and more rollercoasters than any other former housemate. And while we did have a lot in common, nothing ever seemed to make sense in
a feud that has lasted nearly a decade. I have to convince the last few months has really been like therapy for me, and it's a joy to share this chat with you because I've never talked to Tim Dormer like this before. Tim was hesitant to return to the Big Brother franchise, but without him it would have been a massive hole in the series, too wide to jump, and Produce has pulled out all the stops to lock
him down and back in the house. To celebrate twenty one years of Big Brother history, Tim will talk problematic relationships, including the Amber Herd tweet to Estelle, how ben Zebelle would have gone in this new format, his personal journey, who he thinks will win, and really so much tea will be spilt. I suggest you go and get two empty cuffs. However, let's get started with today's guest. I'd like to welcome Tim Dormer to t every load.
But that was the core of the offense and the outrage of some of the game moves that I was making.
We've been through a lot together, haven't we.
People don't like having their masks peeled off and feeling exposed this year it's my twenty first birthday. It's no surprise. I don't think that they didn't include him.
And I'd invited housemaids, both new and legendary.
I really debrief on my relationship with Estelle. Will experience be enough to take on the next generation of housemaid I guess what matters to me is the real life relationships with those ogs.
This is Brother Him. How are you?
I'm good, Ben, How are you going?
You're doing really well.
This is very surreal for me because it's a long time coming to be able to have you on a podcast and talk to you about all the things that I've always wanted to talk to you about. So hopefully there's some enjoyment in it for the listener as well.
Yes, we've got a lot to get through. We have a lot of history, and then we've got a whole TV show to debrief on.
Well, congratulations on your return to Big Brother. Do you know if you hold the record for the most amount of time in Big Brother House history?
No, apparently there's some Big Brothers around the world that go for a whole year, like Germany. But I think I'm in the top twenty of the people in the world that have spent the most amount of days living in a Big Brother house. Definitely hold the record in Australia, but I'd have to get a few more Big Brothers under my belt to make sure I'm number one. Who knows, maybe one day.
Yeah, a couple more. You need to do a couple more. That'll be fine, so your krug will be still hosting it in twenty years time.
Haha.
How did you not get one point on you for like fifty days? Were the housemates really silly for not trying to get you out much earlier?
Oh?
Definitely they were stupid. But I'm very smart and that was my number one strategy going in was avoid being nominated, because I knew as soon as I was nominated, they would take their shot. You don't have a big player like me staying in the game till the end like I did. And in the back of my head, I thought, oh, Big Brother saves people, He'll save me if I get
evicted early on. And I'm really proud that they didn't have to play that move that I did it all myself, and it took a lot of hard work to avoid being nominated, and that was my social game, I guess, of building good relationships, fun bonds, but also a bit of strategy as well, of sort of intimidation and this bluff that I'm not going to come for you until you come for me, and if you want to come for me, you better make sure you're hit because I'll
come back all guns blazing. And that worked today fifty six. And then I think the biggest the biggest fear for me was being nominated being evicted. The first one was nominated, and so when that first nomination was a double eviction, sitting next to Estelle and Reggie, two of the biggest players of the game, I just cannot believe that I
survived that. But that was, I guess, the fruit of all the hard work of the relationships with Johnson and Ealsia that I'd built throughout the game, beyond the OG alliance. So people criticize my gameplay, but I'm very proud of how far I lasted without being nominated, and then to survive that double eviction.
Do you think that they kept you because they knew you would do a lot of the dirty work for them. I mean, keeping you in the competition allowed you to really do a lot of the stuff that they probably didn't feel like they could do. But knowing Tim Dormer, you know you would do just naturally.
Yeah, that was another strategy of mind that I see me as an asset and not a threat. I'll always be a bigger target than you, so I'll be your shield through the whole game, that people will keep wanting to get me out, which but they didn't really take men shots towards me. I think they always thought that maybe later on in the game, or perhaps even they were scared of the audience that they knew I had a big reputation of the game that if you took
Tim out too early, you'd lose the audience favor. And in a competition where the winner gets decided by the audience, I think it had to be the right timing. And I don't know that. The newbies who are left in the game have got a lot of blood on their hands, and I don't know if it's cost them the win. It's kind of catch twenty two. Take me out so I don't beat you, or take me out, and then the audience doesn't vote for you to win. It sucks to be there.
In the words of Sonya Krueger, it might have might have cost you the competition, you know, after three experiences on the show. The question that I've seen the most online through the fan forums is a question for you being which one of these experiences has been your favorite?
Couldn't choose They're all so different. I mean, obviously the first Big Brother of Australia twenty thirteen winning, but just where I was in my life at that stage, I see the three experiences as different sort of versions of Tim at pivotal moments in his life. So twenty thirteen was sort of me showing who I was to the world, so naive, so unaware that I was such a weirdo
and that some people wouldn't understand me. And it was quite brave for me to put myself out like that, and I came out of the house with a bit of a reality check. It was like, some people don't like you and you are a bit of a weirdo, and I guess I had to navigate than fame for a little while and my own personal life, like coming out. I was in love with a guy and nobody knew and everyone thought Tim was this party boy that passed
all the girls in the Clubs. So then Big Brother Canada, where I got to the finale and maybe could have won. But there was this really amazing life moment away from the game where I was like, it's time for you to do something really scary now, and that's put yourself out there again a vulnerable side and come out. And so that was another amazing chapter in my life to then life got really bloody hard and I lost that relationship and had terrible heartbreak, hit rock bottom, nearly gave
up on life. In the last eighteen months. It was a really rough time where I experienced a lot of loss and grief and hated the world, hated Tim, and had to put myself back together and slowly this sort of new version of Tim that was a lot wiser
and softer because I'd been hurt so bad. I got the call to go back to the game, and it's now this moment of sort of being afraid to put myself back out there, but I did it, and I've been embraced again, and I'm so proud of myself and I feel like a winner even though I'm out of the game, and so I couldn't. All three of them are such pivotal chapters in my life that I'm so thankful to be able to share that with the audience, and I thank the Brother for the vehicle of being able to do that.
So what sort of things were you talking about when Lisa, one of the producers, rang you to start that conversation about you doing Big Brother again? And the game had evolved and this iteration of it is different to what you've done in Australia before, probably more similar in some ways to Canada. But what was that conversation like, if you don't mind me asking, what were the hesitations and what were you spitballing with her?
What were you saying, yeah, yeah, good question, because it
wasn't a yes straight away. I think the fact they got Lisa to call me Lisa works back on my twenty thirteen season as a low level producer, but me and Drew had a bit of a crush on her, and so it's funny that now she's the boss, she's the executive producer, and they get her to call me to ask me if i'd go back, because I think they thought that my time on Big Brother was done, and I think it was I wasn't considering doing another series or any television and I said that to her.
I said, what you're asking me to do is to be Tim from Big Brother again. And it was almost like putting on this hat. And I knew how to do the dance. I'd done it before. I mean, people still came up to me on the street, but it really had died down, and I'd kind of liked that I'd built a life away from this character of Tim from Big Brother. I was working in disability care, studying
mindfulness and meditation teaching. There was nothing about my life that was kind of performing anymore, and I just, yeah, I wasn't very interested in putting myself out there because I'd been hurt by someone that I loved so much. Yeah, I don't know what got me was she said we're doing we want to do something for the fans and the idea that they were going to bring back other people and she told me Reggie was one of the names.
Because I said, well, if you're not going to pay me well I deserve, then you're going to tell me some information about the show, like who's coming back, And she said Reggie and that made me realize, wow, wow, that's the big guns. Like I was a huge Reggie fan, and none knew that they meant business. They wanted to do something for the fans, and the fans it's a relationship that go beyond the family of the housemates on the show. You become part of the audience's family. I
mean they're watching you in their living room eating dinner. Well, we're kind of waking up in the morning, cleaning the toilets, baking dinner for everyone on the show. Like it's a very kind of intimate relationship you form and they think they know you really, really well, and they've helped me through some of the really tough times in my life that I thought, gosh, if I say no to this, like,
what would this be without Tim from Big Brother? And maybe this is a chance to come back and and tell my story and fill in some of the gaps of my life and show a new version of me that is a bit wiser and softer that wasn't always shown in the series. Let's face it, the game player, loudmouth, idiot version of Tim is a lot more interesting to
watch the kind, caring, thoughtful Tim. But I think, yeah, the audiences that have followed my whole journey understand who I am and it's been a joy to come back.
I think it's amazing for you to share that because it really is your hook moment, you know, whether or not you know the Steven Spielberg film Hook. You know, can Peter Pan fly again? Can you find that magic? And then I guess once you put into that experience, to put back into Neverland otherwise known to us as the Big Brother House, you know, does it remind you of the best parts about you? Does it unearth things that you'd forgotten?
Oh, then that's going to make me cry. That's really the best question I've ever had, because yeah, a Big Brother was like a land of mate believe for me. In twenty thirteen when I won, I said, this is my dream world. Like it's not real, but it is. I guess, like it is an alternate universe living in that game, and I think I lived my life after the show in a bit of an altered universe of
make believe. And it's beautiful, it's fun. And my friends would say, yeah, being in Tim's world is amazing, but yeah, there's some hard things in life as well, isn't there The reality check is that it's not a land of make believe? And I went through some pretty rough life lessons to then Yeah, going back to the game is do I play and have fun? And yeah, can I
create the magic? Has Peter Fan grown up? And that was I think that my special moment was very quickly going, hang on a minute, I loving this, I'm having a lot of fun here and I'm good at this. And it was like, again, you're right. It was I could trust myself. It was like all this confidence that had
been broken out of me through the life challenges. I fell in love with tim again and made sense of myself in a more holistic way that yeah, there's parts of me that can be mean, but that I am lovable at heart and I know who I really am, that life lessons had taught me what really matters, and that I could turn up and play again. That was what I needed right then, was to sort of fall in love with myself, and I did that through playing Big Brother again.
Well, personally, it's been really nice to be able to see this side to you, you know, and without knowing all of the backstory, without knowing about all the scratches and you know, the scars that have probably happened along the way. It's amazing to have been able to watch your journey evolve like this, and also behind closed doors with you and I, I've been able to see that
you are a very lovely friend. You know, you were very warm, and I don't know whether everyone gets to have that from you, because everyone wants a piece of you, and if you do get lucky enough to be in your audience to appreciate those sort of qualities, it's been quite amazing.
So I'm very glad that we've been able to connect.
Yeah, thanks, Ben, I mean yeah, we've we had a bit of a sort of tumultuous history, don't we. I guess it started with I was perhaps going to be an intruder in your season, and I remember like emailing the executive uties at the times I get me in there to take Ben down. And then this is how a Stelle fits into our relationship as well, is that we then formed this friendship after the show, me and a Stelle and you were this other guy, this sort of villain that had won, and then I came along
and won. And there's always tension between the winners of the shows, isn't there? And Estelle kind of was in between our relationship and it's it's only been now in being back involved with the show and in chatting to you privately, that we've been able to bury the hatchet of the past and realize that we have a lot more in common than we probably gave each other credit for. And and I like that that you can have conflict
with someone and and resolve it. I think that that I can be quite a polarizing character, and some people can misunderstand me or feel hurt by me. But I'm very open to reconciliation and softness, and I like peace. I sometimes think that conflict is necessary to get to peace. But we were quite real with each other off during this current season and now, Yeah, I would count you as a friend. You've been very supportive of me through the conflict that I've had with a Stelle this season.
And Yeah, it's such a isn't it? A incestuous family? The Big Brother world and the real gossip, the real drama happens not on the TV show, but in all the ongoing relationships of people that have played the game.
Yeah, it's interesting because like it's been a bit like therapy for me, and I went on a real journey with the series coming back and not being asked to do it. You know, I felt so excluded, and I felt like they were rewriting the history of Big Brother to not include me. However, I felt like it was the perfect divinity or whatever that's saying, is where I felt like this was where I was supposed to be.
And I have learnt so much from it.
So once I gave up that jealousy and that anger and that disappointment and able to enjoy the series for what it is like, I've actually been able to be rewarded with some amazing things out of it, being putting some things to bed and then realizing this is where I should be. Being able to talk to all of your housemates has just been an amazing and joyous experience for me. So we are in the right place at the right time sometimes.
Hey, oh absolutely, And I'm like, that's something that really impressed me about your decision not being a part of the show, but to still be a part of the show with what you do in interviewing us all and the insight you have about what it means to play the game. And I mean just this chat now, this is the most realist and deepest interview that I've had out of the experience and it's really special that you decided to have that role with the show and it's brought you joy back.
Yeah, it has so weird. It's so weird.
I could have been drinking on my balcony and smoking and yelling at people and tweeting at people. You're an asshole and you know sure have been that person before. But I hope to think that I learned my mistakes. And also I'm probably I would say, one of Australia's biggest Big Brother fans of all time. So you know, when my partner goes away for then, I usually watch reruns of old episode it's a Big Brother and people would think that's really sad and not my series either.
I'll go back and watch like hours and hours and hours of old series from two thousand and three. You know, it's mad, it's mad, but it's my place and I'm just going to appreciate it for what it means.
Yeah, No, that's beautiful, and you never know, they probably like Big Brother is one of those things that I think will just keep coming back. If he has a few years off, he'll keep coming back. So it's something we'll always be tied to and who knows you might be playing again one day.
In my mind, it was always to be playing against you and playing against Reggie. And do you know, Tim, I would have nightmares about being in the house with you because for a spoiler alert for people listening to this, I have always been intimidated by your gameplay because my gameplay was very different. And I just know that if I was in a house in a Big Brother universe with you, I think I would psych myself out.
I think i'd and I think I have put a lo I'm through my name very quickly early on.
But you know what I think, I don't actually even I can't tell you what my gameplay is, but I just I don't know. What's helped our relationship is that we're both real with each other and put gameplay aside. And I think I could have worked with anyone in that game as long as they're willing to be real with me and maybe see me as deeper than just Tim from Big Brother the game player. And that's really important to me in real life that I form those deeper,
real connections with people. But I guess that's where a lot of hurt comes from, is that when you're playing the game and making these game moves. Some of the ogs felt quite portrayed by me, but all's fair in love and war in the game afterwards, we're really close now besides the cell and that's something that I'll work on.
Well, we'll get into that in a second. But in my mind, you were the most entertaining housemate of this all over again, you know, and you might not take out the title of being the winner, but you certainly have walked away with the biggest impression on its audience. You know, why does your personality lend itself to this format so well?
Yeah, I don't know what it is. I remember chatting to the host and executive producer Arista Cox of Big Brother Canada. I told her that I was going back to do this season and she said, oh, you'll win. She's like, I've not met anyone that has the magic ingredients to go so far in this game that it just suits you so well. I guess it is that sort of strategic mastermind, even obsessive I think from a gameplay, but then the television side of entertainment that I'm aware
of what makes engaging TV. I think I learned that from being a fan of the show of watching it and knowing what what I liked as an audience member to see. Yeah, and I guess just not being afraid to show my uniqueness. It's just something that I've always my whole life. I've never really struggled with being self conscious about trying to fit in. I actually and the opposite. If I feel like I'm being normal or just one
of the group, I feel really uncomfortable. So I guess I just shine as a bit of a unique weirdo. And I love that that that's happening on television because growing up, I don't think there was too much of that, Like it was quite made archetypes on Big Brother the pretty girls and the masculine men and the geeks and everyone like what box does Tim fit into. I don't know if there's a box for me. And I'm so
proud of that in life. But for everyone watching that, that's my message, be yourself, Like, don't feel as though you have to pretend to be anything you're not or dim your light, like just love yourself and shine it. Yeah, that's what I think is a bit of my magic when I go into the Big Brother House is that it's my chance to show everyone who Tim is.
Well.
I think you really challenge people in a way which is great television. I think that you interact with people in a way which can sometimes expose people's flaws, and not in a malicious way. I want to be really clear with that, like I think.
Sometimes sometimes sometimes I do not do it kindly.
I think, but that's a part of you showing people who they are. And one thing that I learned from watching you this series is getting people to see something about themselves they might not necessarily feel comfortable with, and then watching you see how they take that on board. And I can see it in your face that if their response is repulsion to your design of how they are,
that's an answer. But if they flounder and they don't know what to do with it, you know, that's sort of where you can use it at them in the game.
But I think sometimes that is quite Yeah.
I think sometimes that's really interesting for us as viewers to be able to watch and see how people want to I don't.
Even know that about myself, but yes, yes, it's very true. I don't know what it is that I have a way of being a mirror to someone's true self or insecurity and people don't like having their masks peeled off and feeling exposed. It makes a great television You're right, and in a game perspective, it is power to have over someone. And maybe that's the manipulation, is that I'm able to see people or read people for who they are,
maybe even sometimes better than themselves. My life lesson is when to use that in real life and how to use it. And I don't always get it right. I don't always get it right in the game. I don't always get it right in real life. I don't know how that skill can be used in real life. I've yet to work it out. But it works well on Big Brother and Reality TV.
Just dig through the bag.
Actually, the thing that you don't know about yourself that you're gonna hate is.
This and show it to them and they're like, what you know?
And that's just fun to watch people be, you know, challenged by it in a way. I mean also, I think in some ways that has seen your fan base respond differently in some ways as well online and I noticed that you're online reading what people are saying, and I think that's been really hard. I mean, do you think that at times you had been too ruthless this time around compared to what Australian knew of you last time.
Hmmm, yeah, I wonder. I think. I think I probably was the same level of ruthlessness, but it's the level of love for the Ogs that then it seemed like more of a betrayal to me that I would make choices to work against the Og alliance. Yeah, I think if if that was the core of the offense and the outrage of some of the game moves that I
was making, which is really sad, I think. Oh, I mean, it's beautiful that people have such strong passion for these players, but it was at the cost of people getting behind the new players, the newbies, who just as human, just as interesting, just as lovable. And the edit has a
lot to do with this. I guess that saddened me a little bit that there was this idea that the Ogs were immortals, or this illusion that they were playing the game with some kind of moral integrity, and anyone that acted against that was this horrible person that yeah, it was a lowsy human being, but no, it was just a game move. It had nothing to do with real life choices.
Well, I think Big Brother isn't life. And I think that's where the confusion might be. Someone's moralistic and perfect design on how to be as a person in the real world actually doesn't lend itself, you know, being the best person being, having the best morals and the best integrity and all of that doesn't actually work inside Big Brother.
And that's where you're going to keep budding. You're going to keep hitting a wall with it, because an actual fact, the game is about making big moves and doing things that you wouldn't do in the real world that are not tolerated in the real world.
Yeah. Absolutely, And anyone that questions otherwise, I think was lying to themselves or really hypocritical. We were all playing the same game, we were all making the same moves, and if you asked any of them, honestly, they all wanted to win. But this idea that I was playing my own game, it was just an easy line to point the finger at me. It hurts. It actually hurt because some of the audience would say, you're not as
fun as you were last time, or you're nasty. But it was just because I've owed Dave out or didn't want Estelle to beat me. Yeah, so I think overall people understand, and I guess what matters to me is the real life relationships with those ogs, and like, we're all good. I'm good with everyone bar Aestelle, and we'll have our chance to chat. And I think she really struggled with separating game from real life relationship, and at times I felt like she used emotions and sort of
this outrage and how dare I? But that was sort of like this expected loyalty, that I would be loyal to her when at the detriment of my game. No, no, not at the detriment of my game.
Well, isn't it funny the similarities that we the parallel of you and I. I got to live with a cell and you got to live with a stell And then in some ways maybe the narcissist in me and the way in which it processes for me, I'm like you then became me, and you know, my struggle with her during that time on the show then became your struggle.
And the interesting thing for me to watch was how you were going to cope with now being in that position, Because what I didn't cope with or I didn't do well, was being able to process how to deal with her. You know, I saw some of her qualities as just really frustrating to me, and so instead of being able to be mature about it and break it down, I
sort of behaved badly. And that now I get to watch you can try and work out what the right thing to do is as well, and see that you also struggle with it makes something inside of me heal a little bit because I've beat myself up for it for so long thinking I'm a terrible person, where now I know who she is as a person, A beautiful, wonderful person can be really challenging.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, It's funny that you noticed yourself in my role in the relationship with a stell. She it came to a point in the house where she said, you are exactly like Ben Norris him and I said stop, no, like you're the common denominator in this. And it made me totally shift my relationship with you to realize, oh wow, she's created in us this villain to reinforce her identity
as a victim. And yeah, I mean, it's very sensitive to talk about this because I don't know if Estelle wants to chat about it in this way, but I didn't think it was fair in the game, and then especially in the way she engaged with the audiences to create that character in us and engage and fuel the fan sort of mistrust in me, and even like, what was the final straw for me was when she was alleging the verbal abuse had happened in the house and then you're not seeing just how bad it was. That's
dangerous legally for defamation. And how did I respond? Not well, I responded with an awful tweet back that was out of hurt because I don't know why Stelle was doing that, and I had been gone on for a few weeks and I'd lived through it in the house where we'd have these arguments about lollies, and then all of a sudden it was about respect and how awful of a person I was, and I'm saying, no, it's just about the lollies of Stelle, and it felt like she was
attacking my character where it never was about that. Yeah, So that tweet that I responded back was out of hurt and it was insensitive, and yeah, I've addressed it. I've got a podcast that's out where I really debrief on my relationship with Estelle, and I apologize for that comment, and I'm in a stell to chat to me off air, on air whatever. I've been chatting to Reggie about it and sort of saying, Reggie, I want to resolve this with Estelle before finale. I don't want that it be
bad blood in the family before the game's over. And Reggie agrees, and she's trying to act as sort of the mediator, Yeah, mediator between a Stell and I, which happened a lot in the house, but Estelle so far hasn't. I mean, there's a lot on our plates at the moment with her being evicted as well this week, and so I hope we do get a chance. I hope it's not on stage live at finale that we need each other to chat, because there was a real friendship there that I don't know if the game has cost us.
I think, you know is to jump in there.
It's I think the amber her tweet was inappropriate, but I could see where you're coming from and in a place of fear. When I'm in a place of fear, I always seem to react badly, Like if I'm confused about something and I'm worried about something and I feel boxed in this fear creates anger, Anger creates I think it's a Star Wars quote, but I think that is where the tweet came from. And even yourself already now
at the stage. I mean, it could take years to say that was the wrong thing to tweet, but you're already saying it's the wrong thing to tweet. You already understand that, you know it probably wasn't the right the right construction of the sentence. I mean, yes, people read into it and could see where you're coming from, but then other people read into it in a worse way, you know, and that's not what you and that's not what your intention was, do you know what I mean?
Like so, h so you can create a really difficult way for us to understand how to communicate appropriately.
Yeah. Absolutely. And we've talked about the frustration of trying to communicate with a still and when you're caught in an argument with a stell a still never takes responsibility for her actions, Tim does. I am one of the first to say I got that wrong or oops, sorry, I want to learn, I want to be better, and I don't know, there was a lot of hurt, like
you said on my part from Estelle the same. She feels very hurt from me that I didn't play the game with her, but it's not because I'm a bad person.
Well, the villain thing is where it jumps in. You know, people now call you a villain, and that's the weirdest thing in the world to me, because when someone presents a word that's so uncomfortable with you, you think that's not who I am.
You know.
For me, a fan once said to me, maybe two years after the show, it was like the Elspeth moment from Wicked was when they connected with me and they realized that the villain was not the villain and there was just a different perspect And I'm not that familiar with Wicked.
I'm really not.
I have seen the music Hall, but I saw that before I did Big Brother, so I remember seeing that music hall very long time ago. But you know where I'm coming from, Tim, don't you where It's like, I'm not saying that I wasn't the villain or that I was the hero. I'm just talking about the ability to be able to see things in it from different perspective entirely.
Yeah, absolutely, And I guess that's the limitations that reality TV has it, they have to tell a simplified version of the story for the audience, and sometimes we are cast into characters that are quite two D and there's always a lot more going on, and I guess some of the audience members can see it on a deeper level, and when they chat to us online or they meet us in real life, they sort of see the real person, not the two D version that was in the someone
else's narrative of what happened. So we're victims to the edits narrative. But it plays on you, doesn't it That Am I that person? And I think whatever reality TV show it is, a lot of people then feel like they have to keep being that version, and that's who the people on the street want to meet, or they spend their entire post show experience trying to prove that they weren't that person, and that is exhausting, And I guess for me, it's I always know that I'm hard
to understand. There's a lot of complex layers of tim and some people are only going to see the top and they're going to only see what they want to see. They're not my people.
It's taken me years to put those words together that you're saying, like you know, and then I'm like, oh, I don't actually have to be the person that other people have created, you know, of me. You know they they aren't seeing the whole picture. It's okay to still be the worst parts of my personality which I can't get rid of, Like I have to start to love myself for the things that I hate about myself as opposed to being controlled by it.
You know, yes, yes, that was what was very liberating for me going back, was going, Okay, there is this rap bag side of me, but you know, I know that I'm more than that, and I'm okay with it, and I don't have to prove that to anybody watching. Let's have some fun. I'll play the rascal just so it's an entertaining show. And at the end of the day, I'm okay with me and I don't need to prove that to you.
I love hearing it.
Yes, more therapy. We're not paying for this therapy either, so this is cheap therapy. My friend, you know, is tarras described by yourself as a sneaky rat?
Is he just ten two point zero?
I know? You know what I worked out very early on in the game. The story of Big Brother doesn't show how much I knew Tarras was a threat early on and was trying to get rid of him. Tried with the Ogs, but Dave had a deal with Taras that they weren'ting to vote for each other, and Estelle had a really close bond with Tarass that she wouldn't target him. I knew he was holding back on challenges and when the time would come, he would just win
them all. And yeah, I was really I didn't think he'd be the one to take me out, but I'm not surprised, and it's left me in a funny position because it's like, do I now hate him for taking me out? No, I actually feel the opposite. I'm like, congratulations, mate, he probably had the best gameplay in this season. And does that deserve to win? Depends what you want to decide the best strategy was, or how you decide the winner.
Yeah, I mean you and I like that.
You and I value that, so you and I would probably vote for someone like Taras to win because we love that, you know, go and do it and go.
Hard sort of thing.
But will I mean you're looking at Chad and looking at Marley and looking at the winners that are coming out of these series, it isn't the person who plays the most complicated and vicious, vicious game. Whoever's left in the final three when Australia is finally allowed to vote for he is the person who's been the nice one. So yeah, yeah, Unfortunately for Tarass, I don't necessarily think he's going to win. But maybe this conversation we allow people to see it differently and support him.
I don't know.
Yeah, agreed, and I said that to Tarasse at my final eviction, was like, you have a pr nightmare on your hands to try and convince Australia to vote for you to win, like a wake of og bodies in your path to the to the finish line. I don't think he considered that. I don't think that was part of the weakness in his social game, was that, yeah, he's sneaky and at a lied point blank to people's face to advance his game, that that would catch up
with him at some point. And yeah, I think perhaps if it wasn't og versus newby, it was just newbies and Tarass had done that, maybe Australia would love him for it. But this love for the ogs he's got, No none of them had any chance. I think if any og got to the finish line.
It's going to be a tough one. Well, stepping out of that, because you know, we could talk about that element of what's going to happen in the finale, you know, in broad sense, for a very long time. But on a lighter sense, I need to ask, how do you think Benzabelle would have gone if he was in the competition? Because the outcry on his social media for him not being included was enormous, like enormous, and people want to
see Benzebelle back on television. But the question I have for you, and the question I don't have an answer for you to give back to you, is how would Benzebell go in a competition like this?
Yeah? Look, I guess he would be terrible at challenges. There'd be no chance he'd ever win a challenge. But perhaps Reggie was as well like and look at her lasting as long as she has. But I think maybe what Reggie has that Ben didn't have is is that grit, that determination to not give up. Yeah, and she doesn't complain, whereas well Ben does his complain And we love him for it, but I just I don't. I don't think he would have been an asset to anybody's game. And
he is such a heart player. I mean, you wouldn't even call him a player. He just is what he is. But I know that in that game he would only be making moves based on emotion, which, oh god, I wouldn't have played with him. I would have booted him first. It's funny because I did play with Ben, and I was very certain that he would beat me. I actually the night he left, I knew I won the show. I knew I had won the show the night Ben left.
It's no surprise. I don't think that they didn't include him because I don't think he would have handled the situation of the game. It was such a different, different beast.
Now, if the competition did have a moment where there was like some Burt Newton wigs that everyone had to sort into a category of era, you know, it's a Burt Newton wig from the seventies, and then everyone else scrambling around trying to put it together, and Ben would win that challenge, and that would be amazing television. But the realities of the competition now is that it's more brutal than what it was in twenty thirteen. And I'm still wondering whether or not that version was too brutal
for him as well. I'm still worried about whether or not that was too much for him as a person.
Yeah, and I think post show, imagine living the life he had locked in his apartment, to them being shown to the world and embraced, to them going back to the apartment. And it's a struggle for all of us to deal with the rise of fifteen minutes in the spotlight and then they come back down to earth. But for him, he is such a brilliant talent, and I you see him pop up every now and then, and the love for him is still so strong. I know he loves entertaining. I hope it's not the last we've
ever seen of Ben. I've been trying to convince him to go on another holiday. He said he never again. But it's coming up to the ten year anniversary when we went over to the States to Graceland, and I reckon I'm going to convince him. I think that's next year that we'll go away on another holiday and maybe film it. Maybe that's what we do every ten years, me and Ben go away on a holiday together and grow old together. I always said that i'd marry him
when we're old if I'm single. I actually give a scoop for you. I don't know how to tell you this, No, I will, I will. When I was single eighteen months ago, I messaged Ben and I said, Ben, I'm single, Let's do this, Let's go on a date. And he never wrote back. What he never wrote back our relationship breakdown. We're friends now, but there was a moment where we stopped being as close as we were, and that was when Ben asked me, are you gay and are you with my partner that I was at the time, and
I was scared. I said no. And there was feelings between Ben and I, and even on the show, I'll tell you that I was really confused about I wasn't ready. I didn't know what they meant. But I loved him. I really really loved Ben, and I still do. We're not We're kind of like, we'll check in maybe once a year these days, but yeah, it's I don't know. I think I was just too dangerous as a friend for him, and I maybe pushed him a little bit too hard, But now I'm a lot softer, I think.
And anyway, if Scott and Charlene is the moment for Soapie's best married moment, I think a marriage between you and Ben's a Belle is the best marriage.
In the reality TV world.
And I think everyone will be Everyone will be watching and dressed up as your roomsmen or bridesmaids or whatever at home.
I think it would be an amazing TV moment.
Yeah, one day.
You know, there's been a lot of discussion about the whole OG Versus Newby. Do you think it was fair to have an OG versus Newby show and instead of just having a full all stars or a brand lass line.
Yeah? Yeah, maybe there was flaws in that theme that either it was always going to be three OG's at the end, three newbies or a mix, and if it was a mix, that the OG would win. If you've got to the end, you've done something right. And then the beauty of this game is that Australia decides the winner. It's not like Survivor where the tribe still chooses the winner. It would be a different result of this series of Big Brother if we chose the winner. I'll let you take that as you will.
Well, I think it's a good point to make, because you know, in survival we reward the moves and the resume of a plan.
You know, we're in Big Brother.
That not what's happening because actually the person who has the moves and has the best resume isn't ever going to win because the public always will vote with their heart. And I think you know the ogs, people's stories, people's interaction with these characters for however long has been a long time, and it.
Would be.
Shown in the episodes. What's up the amount of backstories that are being shown in the episodes? Like some people. I was made aware from a producer recently of this term the subconscious winner, and it's who the edit is ushering the audience to feel should deserve to win and could leave me angry, but we know that's what we're signing up for. That's reality TV these days. You are a victim to the edit. And it doesn't stop me
from wanting to play. It doesn't make me not congratulate the winner when they're crowned as the most loved by Australia, not the one that's played the hardest game, because I guess that's the beauty of Big Brother. It isn't survivor. It is about connecting with someone that there's an unknown plucked off the street. It was, but now we've got these ogs back.
We could talk about this all day and honestly, hopefully at one point think alcohol will be involved and we will do that at some point, a couple of drinks and some theorizing of the theories and breaking it all apart. To celebrate Big Brother being celebrated twenty one years being seen on Australian screens, I've been asking people Gretel Colleen's top ten questions. You and I weren't you know, Sonya Krueger was our host, so we never got Gretel Klleen's
top ten questions. So this is your first time doing it, so I'm going to run through yeah all questions.
Are you ready?
Yes? Ready?
Okay? What did you miss the most while you're inside the Big Brother House?
My boyfriend?
Who was your favorite person in Big Brother?
Oh gosh, I'm terrible at these questions because I'm so indecisive. I guess Reggie. I've got to say Reggie.
Who was your least favorite person in Big Brother twenty twenty two Mel from Melbourne.
She was only their short time. I didn't get to know her very well. Ooh, it might be a Stelle, Stelle or Tarass Can I have two?
Well it thing sounds like you've picked three, so you're gonna have to narrow it down. We've got mel from Melbourne, Terras and Estelle. Who was your least favorite person in the game.
Oh, there's a lord as well others JC I didn't really bond with.
I didn't ask you to add more names to it. We're huddling them down.
The most annoying, Well, what was it my least one?
I like the yep Estelle who had the most annoying habit?
Trevor, the snoring, hated.
It, burping, the farting, the snoring. I think that's what Lara said.
I started the worst. I like, I can't believe how much I farted in there. Then it must have been the bread. They all thought, They're like, you got the LSIS asshole team. I'm like, I swear it's the diet. I don't far like this in real life.
Who was the funniest person in the house?
Funniest I loved Alisha. I know you're not seeing many funny Alisha moments. But me and Alisha I have a really like like we laugh a lot together and we're good friends now and still laugh. But yeah, she's a lot more funnier than what they're giving her credit.
For most people.
I think eighty percent success, right, as has you my friend from people so far with you know the most of the serious house myself through the podcast. No, I know, but I just thought you should know for your own hero wall, for your own hero wall, you can realize that people have been saying you who was the laziest person in the house?
Yeah, Gabby, Gabby, Elisha?
What was your greatest regret?
Not putting dress up for eviction? What week was it we did Johnson and Drew? No, Alisa Johnson JC, the week I got rid of JC, should have got rid of trass?
Not what you know?
But who do you think will be out next following you out of the house? Who did you think was going to be the next person eliminated?
Alisha or Brenton?
And who will win if you had to put money on it, all the money in the world, or to save the world.
Reggie Renchie of course.
Well you've survived Grotaklan's Top ten questions everyone who joins the podcast, no matter what show or what program we're talking about, we asked them, what is something from behind the scenes for you? What is something from behind the scenes of Big Brother that where as an audience didn't see that we will not see that is interesting and maybe are behind the scenes tasty morsel from your time back on Big Brother?
One time there was Okay, so there's all these doors that like have access from the house to the camera runs behind it. And one time I was awake early in the morning and the one in the bathroom was open, and it was like Narnia door of Oh, what's the behind this door? And I was in my pj's and I tip I tiptoed through it and it shut behind me, and I'm like, holy fuck, I'm locked out of the
Big Brother House. And I didn't know what to do, And so I started walking around in this back camera area and there was a guy eating toasts on a plastic chair and I'm in my microphone going Big Brother helped me. I've been locked out of the Big Brother House. I'm so sorry. I just walked and walked through a door. It was opened. Can someone come and get me. I
don't know what to do. It wasn't my fault because like, oh gosh, I would have got in big trouble if they had have thought that I'm purpose little idea kind of. But yeah, that was funny and I was sworn to never talk about it again.
But you've managed to do what I assumed you would do, and out of all the housemates on the podcast so far, you have won with the most the best behind the scenes secret that maybe it's because I'm a former housemaid and that sort of is a strange description of leaving Narnia, but very good tim I I kin'd even tell you how appreciative I am of your time and for saying yes to come on the podcast and even to just chew the fat on some stuff that's been evolving for
the two of us. But I will leave you with this, and that is you are a fantastic housemate. You still hold the mantle for most of us as the most amazing big brother house.
Meat Australia has ever seen. So thank you for being here to talk about it.
Oh wow, Ben, it's been really special and I mean this like it's a real treasure that we've been able to connect and build a friendship now, because like I spoke on the show, it is a big family and we don't always get along, but we're all linked with this amazing opportunity, this experience that we're a part of, and it's really lovely that you're still that you made the choice to be a part of it in this way. So thank you my own way.
Now, all bets are off so we can enjoy that good luck. We