It's in the news today, but it was actually on TV Reload the podcast last week. They'm welcome back, guys to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris and on this podcast I go behind the scenes with the biggest players in television.
Yeah, great questions. The show's about the game. There's a lot of great television out there in Australia.
But I've also got to go behind the scenes with writers. The truth is, when I started writing it, it wasn't had nothing to do with the news and casting agents.
They know from a casting point of view what they need.
And editors because that's what we do as editors where storytellers. Not to forget some incredible executive producers who are making some of the best TV in Australia.
I have been on the program since the beginning and it's kind of in my DNA.
So thanks for joining me each week and I hope the podcast continues to give you real insight into the magic of television today. On the podcast, I have Michelle, who is the latest castaway to be eliminated from Channel Ten's Australian Survivor, joining the popular reality TV competition themed
Blood Versus Water. The Twins sister was not something Michelle had foreseen in her future, but with a slight twist of the arm, both twins took part in the twenty twenty two competition and made it all the way to a rightful spot on the jury. I thought I wouldn't get a chance to have such an open and honest conversation with Michelle because there's been so much said about her lack of screen time that I worried it might be too controversial to ask about her take on the
editing process. But guys, I did ask a lot of those questions. I was able to tackle those questions in a way where everyone felt comfortable and to be honest, MY main concern was making sure that Michelle was comfortable with this interview, as I really respected her gameplay on
the show. There are some really interesting insights in this chat, and I loved every minute that I have with Michelle because there was this immediate warmth and honesty that made me realize that we could all do with some Melan Michelle values in our life. However, let's bring in. Let's get started. I'd like to welcome Michelle to tape, Raylad.
I really don't have any ill feelings with anyone on Australian Survivor. My initial reaction was, what the heck? Why Michelle? That was a hell of a battle with me not doing an impact on my sister being on the show, and they said, definitely, Michelle, need to bring me a torch. There's just more to the game than what you see on TV. Seventeenth person heard it out before, a person going to purgatory. I know who I wouldn't give it to right now, but there's still more to the game to be played.
Hi, Michelle, how are you. I'm going well, how are your feelings? Watching the show last night?
I actually was looking forward to the episode that I knew that I was about to go, but I just wanted to see how they would do it, because it's like I'm out and then I'm in and then I'm out again. All in all, I am. I feel like I me at peace with everything. So whatever hap happened, how I went out, how I was just centimeters away from the bucket, like it hit the rim. You know, I'm just so happy that those three get to go back and you know, trying to shake things up.
How beautiful.
Though I thought you were so humble, that probably is the most humble eggit I've ever seen in Survivor history.
Michelle, that was a hell of a battle, but you just came up short. What's the feeling.
Oh no, I'm so proud of everyone, so proud, okay, j But now I'm going to miss everyone. I know it's a game and I wish everybody the best of luck.
You know, where do you learn how to be so humble like that from.
I think it's just my upbringing, you know, it's just you know, coming from Hong Kong, we are quite humble about. We are quite gracious when we lose, and we thank everybody. I think it just comes from my cultural upbringing that I'm just like thankful and I really don't have any ill feelings with anyone. I created such strong bonds like we still talk today. There's a big part of my
life in Australia. They know that. So yeah, it was just a great opportunity, especially during lockdown, to just meet these new people.
Oh absolutely.
I mean I think I need to hire you as like a mentor or an advisor on how to deal with things in life better.
Yeah. I mean I've gone through quite a lot in my life, especially just beforehand, as well just before the show aired. So I think that, you know, like we shouldn't take life for granted. Everything happens for a reason and we just have to get on with it.
Well, we're going to get into that in a minute, but I just wanted to say about last night's episode. There's smart gameplay and then there are just blatant lies. How did you feel about getting that vote from Sammy in the tribal council straight after her promise to you that she wouldn't vote for you.
Well, I mean we as I now know, in the game of Survivor with you know, those promises I could potentially be empty promises, but I I know sam and that she was probably put in that situation where she had to write my name down, maybe not to rock the boat with her tight alliance of six.
I hope that it is a puzzle at Purgatory and I get to say you back because I've enjoyed playing my game.
Give my breathing. Me and her are actually very close. We had, you know, an amazing journey together from the start to where we were at. You know, my initial reaction was what the heck why? And you know, we had this way of telling each other that we were safe at that tribal council because we swapped songs like I had her yellow one and she had my red one to show that this is me showing you that you're safe because you're taking my stuff away if we do.
But I guess the plan changed right in the last minute, and unfortunately I had to go to purgatory and she didn't know and we had to quickly swap it back after.
That's crazy. It's crazy.
I mean, you definitely could say that you had a friendship, maybe not an alliance, but I think that you definitely both had a very strong friendship.
Definitely. I feel I felt that we had many laughs, many tears. We shared many tears, many laughs, ma any moments that I'm grateful for, because you don't get those types of friendship in you know, everyday life. You know, we did create a strong bond with each other whether and unfortunately I just wasn't part of the alliance of six. And I was happy to see what she said. You know, when she read my name out. It wasn't out of anything else. It wasn't It was just kind words and
hoping that I would come back. And unfortunately I did it.
I know, that's just sort of the way the cookie crumbles in Survivor. You know, the big conversation online was surrounding the fact that why didn't people demand that Sammy empty her bag to prove her idol status. Well, if you don't have it.
All, empty my bag to the people who were left.
At camp tonight.
You know, that was really a cliffhanger from the episodes before. Did that actually happen though? Did you know, did anyone ask her to empty her bag?
No one asked to empty her bag. And I kind of knew. I believed Jordie the whole time, But when I realized that she didn't empty her bag when we got back, it wasn't like, you know, here everyone, look I don't have it. I kind of figured out, Yeah, she definitely has something. And credit to credit has to be given to both Sam and Mark. They created these strong bonds with people that they could trust, that they trusted them, and they you know, they believe that she
they don't have too. So that's huge credit for them for you know, deceptively figuring out that they actually do have it, but they're just not telling the truth.
The online community and be fairly rough.
Well, what kind of reaction have you had throughout the show from public opinion.
I've had a range. I've been called like, you know, you're such a queen, like you're you know, we wish we could see more of you. I don't know why we're not seeing more of you, to the other end being like you're a sheep, you're boring, You're like you don't know how to play, and all of those. So I've had a spectrum, but mostly it's like, oh, you're
so boring, you don't make a move. But they have to understand, like, you know, people need to understand that there's just more to the game than what you see on TV. You create strong bonds. I had strong bonds with Sam and by the end Jordan as well. You know, we were read to like og red. Chrissy actually is very close with Josh and Jordan and would do whatever
the votes that they were going to do together. So people don't get to see that, and therefore we can't be like, well, actually they're friends or they're really close. When people keep asking why does you know why doesn't Dave a Chrissie flip, It's because you know, day feels very close with you know, the boys in the group, Mark, Josh and Jordan from the Red two point zero Days and chrisy is very close with Josh and Jordan, and
you don't get to see that. So and for me, even if if I did want to make a move, I need the numbers and if I know and I've got close enough bonds to tell me like no, Michelle, it's not going to work, then I'm not gonna vote anyway. It's like like kamikaze, Like I don't think that's the right move either.
I always think it's hilarious, you know, dealing with people who are sitting at home watching these kind of reality TV shows. And the reason why I think it's strange is because no one knows exactly how you're going to behave unless you're there and you've got all of the information right in front of you.
Definitely, and I think because each episode is three days worth of content, they really have to dissect everything to create easy enough storyline to follow through. So you know, you're not going to get those conversations that maybe like I would have with with Dave telling him he's at the bottom all this, or you know, telling Josh and Jordan Oh, but you know what, if they have an idol or something like that, it doesn't make the storyline
and therefore it didn't happen. But it does happen, it's just that we don't see it.
Yeah, exactly right.
Did you get any advice or preparation from inside the show on how to deal with the responses of what people were saying in social commentary? You know, in social media, it's.
A combination of everything. I'm you know, super fortunate that the Survivor family, the ex contestants are all very supportive for the new contests, like the new tribe mates that come in for the new season. So you know, I do get support and messages and from the ex Survivor contestants as well. We also have support from you know, End the Mall. They give us resilience training with a professional,
and we also get support from Channel ten. You know, if if it gets out of hand, I could just you know, surrender my Instagram account and they can just you know, deal with the slaughter.
I think it's great to be able to have that layered amount of help because you know, everyone wanted to know what you and Mel thought about the lack of screen time and I wanted to know, like, what was your interpretation of the fans calling out your lack of screen time, Like, what was your interpretation of that.
I guess, you know, it's I can see it from both sides. I can see that, you know, it's easier to tell a narrative of certain x amount of individuals to create a storyline for them to you know, for for easier viewing for the casual audience. But then there's also fans that want to get to know all the contestants, and some of them get put in the back burner because maybe they didn't orchestrate initially and orchestrate a move
or made great confessionals. But you know, I thought that I did enough in the game in the first half to warrant an edit, but it proved to be otherwise. We had a lot of like Mel and I went against each other one on one quite a lot, and I thought it was going to be, oh, that's great because it's like twin versus twin, and who's going to win. And it was a whole thing of I want to beat Mel, and Mel wants to beat me. But I mean, we never got shown. But I beat her one time.
You know, people want to know that stuff though, you know, people were also leaking that out, Like you know, there was a lot of people amongst the survivor family that was letting social media know that that. You know, there was a really good storyline between the two of you. I guess people just wanted to know. Were you pulled aside and given just as many confessionals as the rest of the cast.
Yes, everybody probably got a similar amount. Everybody has to do their confessionals from day one to wherever they leave, and you know everybody gets pulled away the same amount of times.
Well, you know, your mother made me so emotional when she left you that message.
Oh God, it's my mom.
I'm so proud and happy that you're still in the game. Keep the spirit high. We love your lants and to see you soon mine.
What was your family's reaction to watching the show?
So, my mom and my brother. My brother is on the spectrum, so autism spectrum. They live in Hong Kong and that's where I was before moving to Australia. And I only moved to Australia this time. I was in quarantine this time last year in Sydney. I just moved to Sydney. So I left Hong Kong because I needed I wanted to help take care of my brother. And then when I thought that everything was okay and everything was manageable and he was communicating better than I decided
to come to Australia. So my mom is actually overseas, so we don't get to watch it together. Unfortunately, my father he passed away in August, so a few weeks before filming, so that was very tough and we had know I had, you know, we both had to make a tough decision do we And at that time, it was COVID and it was locked down and the borders weren't open yet, so could we fly back for the funeral? And if we did, could we even come back period?
So my you know, we had to ask our mom whether it was okay for us to go on this show. And it was a really tough decision because our father just passed away and then you know, having to deal with that and then both her daughters go away on a show for X amount of time. It was a pretty tough spot for her to be in. But she she said that, you know that we should do it, and now she's extremely proud of us, so.
She was watching this show.
I mean, I'm so sorry, just to say, I'm very sorry for your loss. So I think that, you know, is a really hard situation to be in. But I guess in some ways you could be so proud, and so would your father be, of this amazing opportunity and the way in which you both conducted yourself.
It was just and my mom was filming at my dad's office, so my dad's all my dad's stuff was behind and so I was like, oh, it's my dad's office and it's my mom. So and then you know, she lives away. I haven't seen her. This is the longest time we've been away from each other. So it was extremely emotional for me. And Day twenty one was very difficult for my sister and I because that was our dad's birthday as well. But at least we got to see each other at the MAP.
A lot of the survivor family did also mention that that there was a very emotional moment that day between you and your sister, and then there was an outcry again from the public as to why that wasn't shown. Were you surprised that they didn't choose to show that moment.
I wasn't. I wasn't so surprised. I know that they have a narrative, you know, there's a narrative to tell. We hadn't really been introduced by then, so it being maybe kind of weird to just have that moment and be like, oh, our father passed away in August, you know, so each you know, everything has its own reasons, but the word is out and that is you know, how we were. We were quite emotional. I was quite emotionab before day twenty one. She was emotional on Day twenty one.
Well, I guess it's not that sort of a show, you know, like, had you had that moment on I'm a celebrity, get me out of here, you know, I think that would have been highlighted where Survivor, it might have been too much of a distractioner.
It might have felt too out of the cannon of the show.
You know, That's how I felt. So I was, I was. I am staying with Jesse and Jordi. We you know, we bonded over you know, our losses of our family members, and that's how we got you know, pretty close, and so you know, everyone's going through something, so.
Yeah, I just realized that a little I know about your survivor experience and how it all come came together. So I'd love to know, you know, what was the application process for you and your sister. And I know your sister had a sneaking suspicion that you wanted to beat her at her favorite game. Was that true?
Definitely, I definitely want to beat her at you know, she was the you know, there's like a good twin and a bad twin, well like you know and good and bad, angel, devil whatever always gets compared. My sister was definitely the good twin where she was is hard working and she's like a chiropractice and I mean she's a doctor and you know all of that, you know, in terms of like Asian standards, that is, you know, the epitomal that she has her own place and all
of that. And then there's me, you know, traveling around the world and not really thinking about futures and so my family like are you going to like pick a place to live? But and I think it's like my whole life was kind of like that was me versus her. You know, at school, they put us against each other. It's just natural for that to happen as getting compared
because we're basically the same DNA. So yeah, the application process was my sister applied and then she asked me to apply, and at that time I just moved to Australia, so I was like, all right, I'm not doing much, so I'll apply. And then I started doing it and then didn't want to do the video, so I was like, nah, no problem, I don't want to do it. Then they
ring me It's like can you do the video? And then yeah, Then the whole process came about and then yeah, then all of a sudden like do you want to do it? And I was like, oh okay. I actually said would me not doing an impact on my sister being on the show and they said definitely yes, Because I didn't know what blood versus water by then I was like, okay, then I'll just I'll go.
You're not sounding like the Avil Twin sister at this point, you know.
Yeah, you know you're actually and growing up.
Yeah, but good to know that you're the Avil twin.
I like that, you know, maybe needing you to be the advisor in my life at this point.
Oh yes, now I'm growing up from my bad twin status like the naughty twin status. I definitely like she is the rainbows and sunshine, And it's true, she's a very warm person. Like when you get to know her, she's like Hi. I'm like, she's like the puppy and I'm like the cat where I'm like just sitting back watching people like should I be your friend? And then and then you grow to love me more?
So I reckon I be friends with you, that's for sure, you know. Getting back into the survivor of the game, who do you think at this point has played the best Australian Survivor game.
I have two mindsets about this. I think that terms of the survivor my mindset, I think that Sam has played a really great game. Even pre merged, she was calling kind of the shots and knowing where the boats were heading. You know, she had to be absorbed into her husband's alliance, and you know she had to you know, see off her closest allies in the game, and you know, that's a hard journey too to have compared to others
that are kind of coasting it. But I also like Jordie, Jordie ja or kJ you know, I really like the underdog factor. You know, they are definitely the minority. They are coming back, and you know, to see who climbs up to the top and tries to revolt something. I would appreciate that too.
I wondered whether or not you going into purgatory last, you know, do you do you think that had an effect on the way in which you came back to play that game. Do you think that being in purgators for as long as say Shay built up this absolute determination or do you not think that that even played in as a factor.
I think everyone had a similar level of determination because we all we all said, whoever goes back, they need to like stick together. They need to you know, they need to stick together. We need to revolt, we need to try, you know, don't just go back to the majority. So everybody had the same level of determination. But I think it's just down to that stick. It's so high you can't see, it's so heavy. You know, perseverance did it wasn't my friend, and that was that was my wrongdoing.
I just could not, for the life of me put that ball up on that that ledge thing that brought it down. Just couldn't. The ball kept hitting my head.
Yeah, slowly.
You know, you can't say straight because you've been smacked in the head that many times.
Yeah, and the sun is glaring and your eye and the wind and the stess. It was just a mess.
Well, I was rooting for you started off well, so I was like, yes, go go, and.
You know I started off strong.
I was like yes.
The wind picked up and I just was like, who's see you? By that stage is I'd been crying.
Like you know, the Alliance of six is now set to be picked apart. Do you think that Mark and Sam have an easy path now or an easy road to being in the final three? I mean, are they indestructible at this point?
I mean they've got two idols and they can play it up to five people left and now there's you know now, I mean back it's like back to nine. But they have they have created so much trust within the tribe. I mean, like they have the stability of Mark with you know, showing good trust with someone quite stable like Josh who doesn't like chaos or playing the game. He likes to play game conservatively, so you know, showing
trust with that. And you know, I think they're playing a great game whether or not that's maybe one day they'll believe that, like the others will believe that there are two idols, then maybe that will be a different situation.
Who do you think is going to win at this point?
Like you know, at your point now with you joining the jury, were you thinking one person in particular is.
Going to win?
Not at that moment, I would say that I would have more people that I thought I wouldn't like they didn't show me enough for them to for me to give them the half a million being I guess Christie and Dave right now just because they haven't shown me like they've been in cruise control. They've just been writing the coattails of the couples. So I know who I wouldn't give it to right now, But there's still more to the game to be played. Maybe they'll change my mind.
The last question I ask everyone who's joined the podcast, it has been you know what's something from behind the saynes? That way, as an audience didn't get a chance to say that, you'd like to share with us something from behind the saynes of your experience on Survivor.
There's just so much laughter and so much belly laughter, and so much entertainment that some people bring j with his rapping skills, you can just skit whatever you you know, you could just give him more than you'll be able to do it. Just a lot of laughing. Even we had this. I think it was Sam because Sam is a theater student as well as well and was a
law student. And there was this moment where people like they'd be witches and then they'll sing like they'll do that Macbeth like double double boil in trouble by a burn and culdron bubble, and they started recruiting witches and I think Con was one and even Krop was one,
and you know, just just belly laughing. I remember there was you know, we would sing songs and obviously it wouldn't make the cut because of copyright, but we would sing a whole new world, Meet me, Khan and Sam and Kan would be the magic red parpet with my red sarong on the ground and I'd be Aladdin and Sam would be Dasmin. But we will be seeing so off tune and laughing. I was like, this was truly make the fun we had even sing we just laughing.
But yeah, a lot of singing, a lot of you know, all the off camera things like you know, I think some got shown, like the fashion show and the and the chef cooking thing of Khan. You know, there were moments, there were moral moments like that that I wish was on a lot of bonding moments.
Look, well, I have to ask for a director's cut because I want to say that Aladdin.
I want to see the Aladdin.
Please, let's all have a petition to get the Aladdin thing out. I really wanted to.
And I just say thank you so much for being here and having this chat. I loved your time on the show. I thought it was quite fantastic and I hope that you're as proud as the fandom that is out there.
Yeah, I'm I'm like shocked with the amount of love that I'm you know, from different parts of the world, and it's just been amazing and just like so fortunate, so grateful for everyone to like just tuned in and didn't call me a sheep.
Just remember you just block anyone that ever says anything.
That yes, noticed Michael, block and delete. Yep.
Thank you, my hair look great that day. And what did you say about me not a goat? Goodbye?
Yeah?
Yeah exactly.
So thanks so much for the chat. It's been amazing,