It's in the news today, but it was actually on TV Reload, the podcast last week that might welcome TV Reload listeners. My name is Benjamin Norris, and this is your podcast to get all the inside goss on the popular TV shows you may be watching from around the world. Undeniably, our TV sets are a major part of our home entertainment, and very little is known about how our favorite shows
get made. Each episode, I find guests that want to dive just that little bit deeper into the shows they're currently making, so that you can hear all the exclusive stories and gain access to the biggest names in television. I want to thank you for downloading or subscribing to this podcast. I love hearing your feedback, so make sure you leave a comment on your chosen podcast platform and I will make sure you feel as included in the production of the show as possible. This episode, I'm joined
by Joanna Werner. Joanna Werner is a three time Emmy nominated AFI actor and multi Logie award winning producer, and we will be talking Crazy Fun Park, which you can catch up on now on the iView app as it's a fantast plastic news series on the ABC Nicholas Verso's Crazy Fun Park tells the story of Chester, an introverted teen who makes the incredible discovery that he's recently deceased best friend maple Thorn, is one of a group of ghoulish teens who hold the abandoned fun park at the
edge of town. Sounds fun right, with lots of practical effects young actors getting their start. I have loved this series so far as the creators don't stupefy their audience, which is why it's been a success with young adults. Whober times can be really hard to engage with. Anyway, I'm gonna bring Joanna into the podcast now. I hope you enjoy this chat and check out this fun series and support local content. Hi, Joanna, thanks for coming on
to TV Reload. Thanks for having we been you know, I'm thrilled to be having this chat with you, as so many of your peers have spoken so highly of your work. Does that sound like a strange thing to hear?
That sounds like a very lovely thing to hear.
Thank you well. I wanted to ask you about how you got started, what made you want to get into television?
It was certainly not something I thought was a possibility growing up, it never occurred to me. I grew up in a outside of a town of three hundred people. My parents were certainly not in the industry, nor was anyone I knew. But I always was a huge reader. I loved it when mom and dad took us into the city to see live shows, and was always, you know, part of school productions and school Rockerstedford's and all those
sorts of things. But I I didn't have science in year twelve, and I was going to do engineering, and I just got to the end of view twelve and I said, I can't bear it if that's what I ended up having to do. I just got to be
something else. And so I did Media Studies at r MIT, and after deferring for a year to work for the Rockstedford in Sydney, where I did a trainee ship in television and video production and worked on their TV special, And then the first first semester at Media Studies at ROT we did I think we did a term of scriptwriting and then a term of producing and I just I'll boom, that's what I want to do. That all works for me.
You know, Dance Academy is starting to make a lot more sense. Now.
Yeah, yeah, I was doing ballet classes since I was four years old at my little ballet Country Ballet school.
Well, I think it's really important. I was brought up by an educator and it was so important for her that we were readers, and I think that was really important for us because it meant that we were quite creative. I think it's kind of like an entry point into using your creative talents.
Oh. Absolutely, I was still one of the key reasons I have my career. I think I loved YA and Zam Strauss, the creator of Dance Academy, and I bonded over our love of Ya books and yeah, it's why I really loved working in children and team television to begin with and still do.
Now, was there a show that you connected to as you were growing up? Well maybe that was because there wasn't television. You know, there wasn't as much television for young adults. I mean, what was there a show?
Now?
I loved it.
I mean Degrassi was sort of the cornerstone. I remember at high school, rather than have health taught to us, they just let us watch episodes of Degrassi and it was awesome. I know Sam and I bonded over My
So Called Life with Claire Danes, which was amazing. So they're the sort of shows that stand out in my memory is being really significant and important and helped shape your worldview, which is why I think YA and Team programming is really important because it can matter so much to you at a really pivotal part of your life.
Absolutely. I mean, I thought the shows that I watched in my teenage years were quite formative for me, and I was quite addicted to them. It's interesting. My So Called Life was my favorite TV show up until I was twenty years of age, and I could still go back and watch it. And even though I am not that age. It's funny I start to relate to the mother in that show, the mum, and I can see the show on a different perspective.
Absolutely, I know that show still holds up. It's still worth it worth a watch, now, that's for sure.
Well. I came across your work originally with Dance Academy, and I just loved how accessible your storytelling is for I guess i'd say a broader audience.
Yeah. I just think if you're given by a lot of money to make something you want to make something that as many people as possible are going to enjoy and get something out of and it can matter to them. I've just been so incredibly lucky in my career to team up with incredible creators and writers that have really
appealed to my sensibilities as well. And I've been able to work really collaborately, collaboratively with really amazing writers, and we have been lucky enough to make shows that have found really wide audiences and have made shows that do matter to people. It's really important, and we've been so thrilled with the way that a number of our shows have been received.
Well, is it harder to create worlds for younger people? I mean, what's the secret?
That was where I started off. I worked for years for Jonathan Shift Productions, doing back to back twenty six half hour series each year, which sort of led to H two O, which was the first show that I produced, and then and then onto Dance Academy when I started my own company. And so that's how I learned to do it. And so that's sort of, you know, that's the benchmark for me of how you do do it.
I mean, you need to engage younger audiences with issues that they may face in a way that feels interesting to them, and I think that sometimes can be quite complicated and hard to do.
Yeah, and you're just trying to create fabulous characters. I don't see that there's a huge difference in whether you're producing for teen audiences or adult audiences. You're trying to make creating incredibly rich, diverse and interesting characters in interesting settings that are going to appeal to your audience. So yes, it's important to think of who your audience is when you're making it. That that sort of falls away when
you're in the process of it. You're just trying to make great stories for really interesting characters.
Well, Crazy Fun Park feels like a really unique show that has really wide appeal. I mean I watched it as a previous screening and entered it without really knowing too much about it, which I often love to do with this type of storytelling, and I was compelled. You know, what was it about this story that really appealed to you?
I just thought it really had something to say as well as being it's funny, it's scary, it's a really enticing world, and it's creepy, but it also has this thing to say. It's a really wonderful exploration of teen boy relationships and your relationship with grief. And I thought it had some really profound messages, but it's buried in there so you don't feel like you're learning a life lesson and you're watching it, you're just engrossed, hopefully, just
engrossed in the drama and in the characters. But it does have something really important to say and can really sort of sit with you and you can think about it afterwards. Which are the shows that I really like.
That's going to sound strange to you, and you probably haven't even seen this, and people listening will be like, what is Ben talking about? But it was kind of like a blend of The Boy Who Could Fly for Me mixed with Beetlejuice. I mean that's kind of what I felt. I felt like a bit of a Tim Burton feel to it. But I don't know if you ever saw that film, Oh yeah.
That is I love that reference. I'd never thought of it that way, and Beetlejuice was absolutely a reference. But The Boy Can Fly it was a classic. I've watched that so many times growing up. I love that you've made my day.
Well, that film, to me, it was interesting at the time because they did handle grief. I mean, the protagonist in that story had lost their father and that's kind of where the story had started, and it was kind of the first time I'd seen a film that was made for young adults that was tackling hard to deal with subject matter. You know.
Yeah, absolutely, And the grief of loss of a friend that we're tackling in Crazy Fumpack is really profound. It comes from a real place, a very real place for the creator, Nick Verso, and you can fit that depth and groundedness to it. It comes from a real place of knowledge of that experience. Yes, I thought it was a very special, very unique show, and I was very lucky that Nick came to be with that Immediately.
The protagonists in this story engage you as an audience, and they make you feel like they're your real friends, and I think that's so imperative to getting people to engage. Did you love these too?
These two boys, I absolutely love them, and I just love their catch phrase friends for another Day, And when it's used later on in the storyline door and given anyway, like, it's really beautiful. Their friendship is just is just beautiful and I love it. I think the casting of those boys was really crucial and we knew that and I feel we really got that right with Henry and Stacey who play Chester and Maplethorpe. It's really beautiful that their friendship.
And yeah, I feel like I've made so many things with a female audience in mind, we always want everybody to watch it, but possibly skewed a bit more towards a female audience. So it was really wonderful to make something skewed towards a boy's audience. My oldest nephew is the exact spot on age for this, and I hope
he loves it. My Little Boy is for and you just realized they really their friendships are so beautiful, and I was just really happy to have a show that was really aimed at at a boy audience and shows boys hugging each other and having loving relationships. I just don't think you get that often anymore. And I really loved that about it. Well.
Sadly, in life, I think we all experienced grief, and that was something about this show that I thought was handled really well. You know, was there an overall message that you guys were trying to get across to your audience.
Many audiences and many messages, and I think and Nick the creator of the show, would have his own viewpoint on this as well. But for me, it was friendship and that friendship can stay with you and that you're able to keep that, keep that with you even if you do lose somebody. And I've got lots of friends now that sadly have lost parents or loss and grief
can come at any stage in your life. And I loved that the message of positivity of keeping those friendships and relationships in your heart and that they and they're part of you was ripped something really beautiful.
If young people are watching this, I think it might be something they'll draw back to because it is handled quite well throughout the whole series. I mean, I haven't finished the last episode, so that's where I'm up to, but I just think it's handled so well and in a way that kids can understand why. I don't want to say kids, I want to say young adults. You know, I think you know the sets, the cinematography, and the storytelling gave me early Buffy the Vampire Slayer vibes as well.
Had you seen that show or was that any inspiration to any of the content makers.
Oh yeah, definitely seen it, seen it and loved it. Yeah, we had lots of references and Beetlejuice was definitely one of them. Patty Reard and our production designer was tasked with build us a fun park please inside this empty, abandoned warehouse in Altona, and he delivered. It's you know, he used CGI to enhance the tops the top of the set, but everything is in there. And he did the impossible and convince people to lend us their rides
and games to populate the world. But yeah, I think I think he did a beautiful job.
I think the basic sets and I'm not basic sets, they're quite elaborate sets, but you know, just basic special effects that's used throughout it phenomenal.
Yeah. I mean we definitely embraced low fire and high fire. We you know, we did everything we could within our budget. And I think there's a you know, there's a level of expectation now from an audience. They're very sophixedicated audience they're watching. You know, it used to be that Harry Potter CGI was the benchmarker. Now that's you know, that's very outdated. So yeah, it's a sophisticated audience that we have to cater for within a TV budget, and I was thrilled with the results.
Do you think that you know, we've changed the way in which we make television in the last few years, particularly in Australia.
I just think we keep aiming to be better. I think we keep aiming to keep those production values as high as possible. So I think it's just a constant evolution. I can't see a moment where you know, we took a huge leap. We're just continuing to take progressive steps forward.
So it's just always that striving for better, to do more with our budget, to keep those production values really high, just so that your audience can get captivated with the world and the stories that you're telling within that world. So I think we're just constantly pushing ourselves to do better and more.
I think one of your biggest skill sets is getting these performances out of the young adults that you work with. You know, how do you get such authentic performances out out of young people who might you know, have this as their first acting role.
That's me being lucky enough to work with fabulous directors, but also helping them to have a world, a production world where that's supported. So at the moment where just about start shooting the second season of Surviving Summer, which is really exciting, our teen surf show for Netflix, and we're working with a fantastic dramaturgue who's working really hard with this young cast to really give them all the skill set that they can have to bring the best
to their scenes. On Crazy Fump Up, a lot of the cast, heaps of the cast were first timers. It was a really diverse group, so it wasn't necessarily the actors who were always going to have the agents or
have been the lead in school plays. We unearthed some people who this is absolutely their first time and creating an environment where they feel supported, where they feel brave to take some risks, because you obviously feel very vulnerable when you're on set being filmed and in front of this huge crew who have all worked on heaps of shows and this is your first time on set. So it's just getting the right team together to create that supportive environment is really important.
Did the kids laugh with Judae with Lucy? I mean, I love Judith Lucy as an adult, and I think she's so funny. How did she go down on set with these with these kids?
I reckon some of the cast didn't know who she was because there that's not their target audience. And then they found out who she was and then they were impressed. But they to begin with, they were just impressed with her on set because you know, she's hilarious. Who's this older lady?
Was she hilarious on set? Is she being very Judith Lucy?
Oh? I think she was? I think yeah, I think everything that Judith Lucy says is hilarious. Had this fantastic meeting where Nick Versus and I went to have lunch with Jez to try to Cajola into doing the role, and she told us she was already going to say yes, but she would to take the meeting anyway, and she was hilarious in that. No, she's a very talented performer.
I'm obsessed, and she's fantastic in the show. So I think it's a great gat you know.
Yeah, me too, me too.
People who might be a little bit older, I think we'll tap into this series. I mean, that's the other thing about this show is that I think it is for a broader audience. I think, you know, our adults are going to enjoy this as much as kids anyway.
Oh totally, I think so, PG but write a butting against M. So our sort of looking at how far we could go with the scares or anything. It was always let's go as far as we possibly can without it tipping into M's. So we worked really closely with the ABC and the ACTF to make sure that we were just hitting that line but not going over. And for me, I'm a bit of a wars so it was at the maximum capacity of me scare wise anyway, So it was prorometer.
I'm a boss as well. I feel like I'm getting woolzier, if that's even a word. As I get older, I'm so less inclined to want to watch things that are too scary to me.
They take away more than they give. I don't want to have to be scared for weeks afterwards. But Nick Verso is such an aficionado when it comes to horror and the things that, Yeah, I just would never watch any of the references that he was talking about.
Oh he's great, and you've worked with some amazing people like Tony Airs and Emma Freeman. What do you enjoy about collaborating with people like that?
Oh, just being in a room where everybody smarter than you is the best place to be in your career. That's how you learn. And that's sort of about what I aspire to every time. And I have been lucky to work with amazing people, and every time I am lucky enough to work on a new show with a new talent, you just learn so much from working with them, and that's you know, you're here for the marathon, not
the sprint of a career. So that's how you kind of hopefully have longevity of just continuing to learn from the people around you.
And there's sort of changing between you know, young adults and making television for adults. And there's been some brilliant shows that you've worked along the way. I think Secret City is yours the news reader. Did you have to put a different hat on when you are targeting different audiences?
I had thought so to begin with. So I was really nervous when I did Secret City because it was the first time I'd worked on a grown up show, and I had to stopped pulling in an adult show because I realized it sounded to people like I was making porn, but it was just a I'm not kids show. But then I realized when we got through it, you're just trying to do the best work you can. It's the same cruise, you know, You're just on every show that you're on, people are trying to do the best
work they possibly can. And probably the level of interrogation of scripts can be more so at times from adult actors, and so there's that extra pressure. But you're trying. You're just with every show you're doing, you're trying to do the best work you can and make them the most complex, you know, stories, stories you can. So I don't think there's a huge difference.
No, Well, Secret City such a beautiful show to watch. I mean, you know it was obviously about politicians, but you know, all of the cinematography, everything about that show was first class, which I think is brilliant because we're now is telling stories in Australia that stack up and look just as good as anything that you're going to see on HBO or anywhere else from around the world.
It's quite amazing and you can feel very proud, I think, to be making television that's just as good as anywhere else in the world.
Oh yeah, that's certainly what we aspire to do with Secret City. Our aim was to make Canberra sexy.
But was it the new Reader as well? That was yours?
Yes, So the news Reader was when a film production's first first full series. So I produced Secret City with Matchbox, which was awesome, and then the Newsreader is is when a film productions first adult show.
Not adult you know, I know what you mean, not porn, not porn, yeah, not porn.
Yeah, which you know. It's just been such an amazing show to be part of. Working with Emma again and with Michael Lucas and Anatove again after Secret City and Sam Reid, it's a all of our amazing cast. We've just finished the second season and I can't wait for people to see it.
I loved that show so much. I'm so glad there's a second series because I couldn't get enough from the story. It was so well done.
Yeah, no, I just I love that series so much, and yeah, the second season is awesome. It's really I'm really excited about it.
Well. I got on to Michael Lucas the next after I watched the whole thing and was like, you have to come on the podcast, you have to talk to me about these characters. And it was wonderful to hear. You know, he's passion for the news room.
He's a news nerd, and that's how we connected because I'm not as big a news nerd as he is, but I'm still a bit of a nerd. And yeah, his passion for deep diving into the era's news stories is impressive.
And can you tease us about something that's gonna like what's the subject matter for season two? Men? We've got the Russell Street bombings in the first series. Is there an event like that that we will see in the second series?
There is? And I cannot see anything else.
The secret it's really.
Yeah, Michael's got the scripts are fantastic. Emma's done an amazing job with all six episodes, and our past are really really incredible. And then seeing Anna at the moment on the Last of Us and Sam in Interview of the Vampire, just seeing the amazing stuff they're doing that's getting a huge audience. It's so exciting to have them back.
They're both becoming huge, Like I don't mind, how have big their star managers to get but they have to keep coming back and making more of the news reader. We need them back for season three. So what about Crazy Fun Park? Do you think we'll get to see more of these characters?
I would love to you always hope that's the goal season two. Second seasons are such a gift. You really you know what's working, you know what you want to push a bit further. You've already made those huge decisions of the casting, which contributes so much to the success of a show, So some of those big gambles and questions are taking out. So yeah, second seasons are really fabulous to work on.
Well, something I ask everyone who joins the podcast is what's something from behind the scenes, you know, something that we wouldn't see as an audience, kind of like a behind the scenes secret from well for this show, for Crazy Fun Park, is there something that you can tell us that happened a funny story and anecdote that happened through the production of it.
Oh, I don't know if it'll be a funny story because I'm just thinking of shot in COVID times and this is probably what everybody talks about now because it's quite you know, it's really it's really a weird situation and a big extra hurdle when you're working on something in COVID time. So we discovered our you know, a
very high number on the call sheet had COVID. We managed to do one day without them, and then we had to shut down for a week and nobody could come to work, and I'm just so grateful that nobody else got it at that stage, but we just couldn't work with that person, and so it was such a lesson of how incredibly important every person is and you just can't shoot without them. So not a funny story, but we did manage to get it, get around it, and get back up shooting. But yeah, those COVID curveballs
just just kept coming at you. So it's anyone who gets to who manages to finish making a show in the last three years deserve medals.
In my books, I read this story about Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Aniston. They were gone to make the second series of Morning Wars, which is what it's called here in Australia. I think it's got the Morning Show, I think is what it's called in the States. But when they were writing the second series, they were turning up on set and someone would have COVID, so that storyline kind of had to be moved away, and so they're looking.
They were like, we've got to come back into a third series where we can have more than two people, more than two actors on set, and the opportunity to finish off all story arcs without having to, you know, rewrite on the day.
Oh what it does to production and to the writers and to the first A. D's yeah, it is amazing. It's always a relief, and it's always it's always so great to finish shooting a show, but particularly during COVID times. Every day that you get in the can is just amazing, and you're so grateful.
Now you can do an.
Hopefully touchwood that's behind us, and we can all enjoy this lovely reprieve and maybe we all get shipped through our shoots with no shutdowns.
Absolutely well. Claudia Carvin was on the podcast the other day and I think that's what she like. She's made three seasons of Bump and now is making the fourth one, and she was like, I think this will be I think this I hope this will be the first time we get a series done without having to worry.
About COVID but fingers crossed.
Well, can I just say it's been fantastic to talk to you about this. I hope people that are listening go and watch the show if they aren't already watching it. Crazy Fun Pike is absolutely amazing, and I thank you so much for telling us a little bit about how you made it and what happened behind the scenes.
Thanks so much, Ben, I'm really really thrilled to be on the show. And yeah, like you, I hope everyone can check out Crazy Fun Park on ABC. I view