Jaala Webster ITV STUDIOS AUSTRALIA - Producer

and our most popular streaming services. Undeniably, our TV sets are a major part of our home entertainment, and very little is known about how our favorite shows get made. Each episode, I find guests that want to dive just that little bit deeper into the shows they're currently making so that you can hear all their exclusive stories and gain access to the biggest names in television. I want to thank you for downloading or subscribing to this podcast.

I love hearing your feedback, so make sure you leave a comment on your chosen podcast platform and I will make sure you feel as included as possible in the production of this show. This episode of the podcast, I have someone I've been chasing to come on the pod since the very first episode. It is ITV Studio Australia's superstar EP and secret weapon Jarla Webster. Truth be told, Jaala is usually locked away working on shows like I'm a Celebrity, The Voice and Love Island Australia, especially at

the times that I usually would feature these shows. It made sense to record this episode in the non ratings period and this will be my last episode of the summer series before I'm fully back on deck in twenty twenty three. Jala and I met when I was in Big Brother through an unusual circumstance, as she produced and

voiced the show called Little Sister. Of course I was a housemate and she was the voice of the title role, but there was something extraordinarily magical about the impact that she had on the housemates and you as an audience.

And then that was amazing because the whole team, especially with my post team, everyone was just like can we do this? And it's like, all right, everyone just chuck in and we're going to make this thing. And I've never seen a group of people pull together more than

on that show. On that series, as we worked out what the show was, and then it kind of evolved within the making of that show of like how do we make it the Australian version, and a lot of that was like we'd thought of things, but then it was like, in the heat of the moment, all of those things sort of changed and evolved to become the very weird show that we now made.

So I just sort of remember being like, oh, I want to do TV, but I don't want to do news, so what is that? And it sort of took me a few years and then yeah, I kind of ended up working like lifestyle television things like that, and then yeah, sort of almost like taught myself how to make reality television. I was working for a really small production company and they got like a pilot that they could make and they were like, you're the youngest person in the company,

so you must know how to make real television. So I remember like watching all these episodes of like weird shows from America and going, oh, so if there's a scene, then you have to do an interview about that scene, and then that's where you would cut it in. Like I literally watched things and tried to teach myself the format of reality and then yeah, eventually I kind of, you know, obviously got to be a big girl and go and work on big television shows.

a lot more skills than you realize. So when I got there, I was like trying to like lift the lights up and help the crew pack down, and they're like, what the hell are you doing? That's not your job, Go away.

day and there are all the people who are EPs.

love of television again. That was the first show I'd ever done that was twenty four hour Turnaround and like that's sort of become something that I specialize in these days, and I love, love, love twenty four hour Turnaround because it's it's real it's true. It's literally happening right there

in front of you. My job on that first season was a control room producer, So you're literally sitting in the control room watching all of you guys for got up to like fifteen hours a day, and it's your job because there's obviously, as you know, there's a million things happening in that house, so it's your job to decide which two things are going on stream because we're not recording it everything, so you're constantly hunting around looking

for stories, going like is there something better happening in the bathroom? Is there something better happening in the kitchen? And sometimes you kind of flick over and like listen, and you'd be like, holy shit, the best thing that's ever happened on this show is currently happening, and I

don't have it on streat. You're like, and it was so exciting and it was so yeah, it really It completely changed my passion for television and I absolutely love Big Brother as a format, and before I did Love Island, Big Brother was definitely my favorite.

actually going to kiss and all of those things. And so it's like they've taken like the most exciting storylines you can get from Big Brother and made that the format. I one hundred percent think they're like one hundredercent linked in that sense.

past sometimes you're busy. You know, you've got, like said, sometimes you've got like seventeen islanders and you just got

to punch through all of them. And I think, not only are we giving you bigger chunks of their conversations, but then we're giving you bigger chunks of their inner monologue, which you know, because not everyone says the thing that they want to say in a scene, but then if they can then kind of explain to you in their interview, damn it, this is the thing I wish I'd said to him as he was saying that thing to me.

You have the full kind of experience of them, and that's why I think you get to know them better. So we worked really hard to give them space to give us more in depth kind of in a monologue, and then we had really beautiful stuff that we could use then in the edit. So I do I think we worked really hard to make them very full rounded characters, not just I like this boy.

it was Scottie Rouse cut it. I think they go, look, I mean, without my glasses on, down there that chair, that could be a dragon, and he cuts to this empty shot of a chair, and it just makes it so much funnier, you know, like they were very funny class and then when they're already giving you funny stuff, like we can keep adding on kind of extra layers of like visual gags to it. That makes it even funnier.

go on the show. Like she just went off on this like random thing about she'd gone to buy seven lip glosses because she was so nervous about the interview, and I was like, did you wear any of the lip glosses? And she's like no, but I've got them all here. She pulled them out of her handbag and I was like, this girl is amazing. And she was exactly that on the show. Like she was kind of a perfect disaster, you know, but that's who she is, so we weren't making her look like a disaster. That's

just who she is as a person. So that's my favorite part about twenty for hours turn Around is that like we can only tell what's actually happening, and honestly, what happens, especially on the Violin. I mean, Big Brother was the same. We couldn't script that shit. Like if I went in me and I was like, what's going to happen? Is Cassidy who was like shafted by like Grant and now's the Taylor and they're clearly in love. She's going to pick him again. People be like, that's

a terrible story arc. I'm like that, no one's gonna believe that, But that's the stuff that happens. So it's cool in the sense that you're watching it going I can't believe they've just done that, And then you go, how do I best tell this in the edit? Now? Like, what do we bring to the truth of their insane choices that's going to make it even more entertaining for the audience?

And you can speak to this obviously because you lived in that environment. Not everyone can live in a weird bubble universe like Big Brother or like Love Island, or like I'm a celebrity. So I don't think people necessarily have faked us out. It's just that the version of that we saw when they were happy and free and living their life and seeing their friends and family isn't going to be the version of themselves that necessarily comes through in the villa or the house or something like that.

But every now and then you get caught out and you think, shit, yeah, we've stuffed it up here.

you're clearly unhappy. Like you have to go in and want to participate, Like don't be a person sitting in the background watching stuff and being kind of cynical about it, like be part of the thing. Like not that many people get to do this.

you know, vindictive. I can't make you those things unless there was an essence of that already there. So but I do think it's just that it's hard for people because no one really likes to think of themselves as any of those negative qualities. So when you see it on screen, you're like that's not me. And it's like, well, it wasn't that moment, but maybe there's a reason why you were that way. Your feelings were hurt, you were kind of feeling cornered. It's like you blashed out in

the heated moment. That doesn't define you as a person, but that's how he felt in that moment.

You were like, we're not getting out of bed because we don't have to because Big Brother A and here, and I was the controller and producer on that day and I just remember calling that and going westcrewed. We got no scenes right now, Like we got one scene out of like the last four hours, Like I don't

know how we're going to make a show. And he came back and he's like, do you want to be a little sister, because we're going to tell them that like little sister, we gonna come in and read everyone up and be like get out of bed, which we did, which was solely just for trying to get some content out of that day. I mean, can tell this story better.

Network wanted another thirty minutes worth of a show, and he had the idea in the shower and he pitched it to them that it was going to be this little sister thing, and you know, little sister could ask questions a big brother couldn't ask. And I got called in after I'd done a full night shift and it was like, can you get here right now? And I got there and the like, right, so, you've got your own show, You've got a voice it, you've got to produce it, you've got to edit it, and it's going

to air in two days time. So I yes, was terrified, and then I just jumped into it. And I kept thinking because I had I'd spent so much time watching you guys, like you said, like I was watching you guys sometimes fifteen hours a day, So how I knew all the things that you guys were maybe feeling and not saying, or stories that you'd started to tell and

someone had cut you off in a group setting. So it's kind of like I remember, like you and Estelle in particular, were people that I was like, I remember you were starting to tell your story of say, coming out, and I was like, you never got to tell that properly, and I kind of wanted to hear it just partly from myself, but I knew the audience would be really

connected to that. So I remember like being really with girls, like you don't have to tell this story to me if you don't want to, but you know, like I wanted to give you that platform to like tell that in your own way and like really like share that and own that. Would you mind telling me about when you came out to your family?

I've only been doing that maybe for the last sort of five or six years, but even more so, like there's so much power and the choices that you make in the edit of what you're making people feel, what parts of the story they're seeing, and not in a bad way where it's like I'm taking this away so you feel this and you don't feel this, but it's like the choices that are getting made will bring the whole thing together. So I think I feel more creative power in the being the behind the scenes.

Like the David you know, last year's Fake Celebrity is a prime example of that. Like they pitched and I was like, great idea, sexy, cool, amazing, and then it's like, but how does this actually work? Like even just like the mission statement at the very start of that first episode where it's like this is what we're doing, It's like we spend so much time trying to work how much information do you give in that? And like how do you explain the audience where they're going to get

it straight away. It's like, you know, it's those ditty gritty things. So I think Alex is the big ideas man, I kind of work out how to make those ideas work. And then the other thing is Alex is all the humor, and I'm like to think I can be mildly entertaining and funny at times as well, but then I think I bring a lot more at the heart. So I think even in our personalities, that's very much our balance. Alex is the big brash one, and I'm the one

that will come in and give you a hug. So I think that's the kind of like perfect balance between the two things.

Whereas on something like I'm a Celeb and Love Island, you got instinct to make a choice and you follow that choice, and even if you kind of halfway through and go, I don't know if this was necessarily the right choice, there ain't no time to go back, so you just got to kind of follow through with it and make it the best choice. But I think with those shows, it's blatantly obvious what the big story arc

of the day is. Generally, sometimes that doesn't become clear until later in the evening, and then I think it's about filling in the gaps around that big kind of story arc or like the big moments that have happened. And sometimes it's like finding like little things that like don't even fit with the story. Like there was a scene in the season that we just did where like Tack and Stellar are sitting this is early on outside

they're talking about rapping. She's going to stilly rap with him, and then he kind of just says, oh, it's been a bit hard in here. It's like not what I thought it was. Going to be like and it's hard sometimes when you're not the first pick. And the thing is that story didn't attach to anything. There was no

tack in Stellar storyline in that episode. There was no kind of reason to show that scene because normally you're looking at like I need the building blocks to get to the endpoint of something like there was no toupling up we're going to see Stellar attack together or anything like that. But it was such a beautiful scene that you're like, oh, I have to put it in. It doesn't matter that it doesn't fit with the big story up.

So I think it's like you've got the big things that have to go in, and then you're looking for either those really beautiful scenes or like a Unicorn I believe in Unicorn scene. That's not necessary, No one needs to know that piece of information, but it's really really funny. So it's like every episode, you know the stuff that has to go in because it's going to feed through

the storylines. And then you're looking for those little moments that are like character pieces that are just like either heartwarming ridiculous, and that's how you kind of make your decisions.

And I'm just watching that constantly while doing other things. And if I see a scene, say this is a year's old example, but like I'm a celebrity, You've got Casey Donovan. She starts talking about being catfish and You're like, holy shit, this is it, this is happening. We're going

to go with this story. Obviously, it normally takes us twenty minutes to get that vision in, so like the scene might not even be finished yet, and I'll have it back into an edit suite and people are starting to do like a cut down of it, and then from there you obviously you would go into the control room.

Everyone would know we're covering that story because it's amazing, but it's like, here's the questions that we need to ask Casey when we get her into the top talkie, which is their diary room, And here's how we need to dig down on those things so that we can really fill out the story. Because even with that one, she told the story in a very matter of fact way in that scene, and people who have been through something kind of sad or traumatic like often almost tell

those stories like a robot. I've noticed that, like heaps on things with like the voice. It's like, why are they sad while they're telling the story. It's well, they've told it so many times that they kind of have to protect themselves. Here's the facts, here's what happened.

or three good minutes of that. So there's just a process of refining. It's like, don't need that part of the story, don't need that part of the story. You get it down to like normally maybe like a seven minute edit. Have these are all the good bits. Then it's like which good bits are we throwing out now? Like which babies are we going to kill? And then you start looking at adding in your interview. So that's kind of how it happens when it's like true twenty

four hour turn around. But the last few seasons of like Love Island and I'm a Celebrity, we've been slightly delayed with the quose. So then I am sitting in the back of the control room watching the scenes going like that's a fucking scene. It's just sort of like you've got notes ready to go so that you can pass that through a post when it gets to them.

of course I can put it in the edit. And if you didn't get it in the moment, sometimes you can kind of trick it up to make it seem like you got it in the edit. But it's like, I just I don't think you ever want to watch

not anymore. Oncepon a time, reality television had to be very much like A equals A plus vehicles c Because it was a new format, but like we've been watching this stuff for twenty two years now, Like people don't need to see all of those pieces, So don't just go aplus vehicle C. Like you could start with A, only tell a tiny bit of B, but then like give way more of C because it's going to make you feel more, So you don't have to follow all

those rules. It's like, do I either feel like joyful, sad, pissing myself laughing, or like want to cry? Like you shouldn't be feeling many other things in between that of watching television shows, because otherwise what are you watching it for?

to war, and you don't have enough content. We don't have enough good content. You're having to put stuff that you don't think should be in the show to air because you've got to fill the minutes. In my mind, being a reality contestant in whatever format.

obviously translates normally for me to the content. So they're my favorites.

must be quite a surreal. Part of the process is that you've watched these people for so long, you've put this stuff together. What's the process like in your mind? Do you want to meet them after the show's over to have a conversation or do you just is it like a big meal you just push the plate away and run.

about these people. And when I'm in it. I'm so in it that I frustratingly it drives me crazy. But I dream constantly about the show that I'm making, So you guys are in my dreams all the time. But for that reason, as soon as it's over, it's almost like I just wipe the slave. It's like I try and blank it all out because at some point I'm going to have to put a whole new group of people in my brain and let them move in there. So yeah, no, I think it's better for me.

or whatever it is. So I think because I've got a broader spectrum of the whole experience that they've had each day, for the most part, I think people feel like so I always feel like I know those characters extremely well because I've seen the goodad, so no. I mean, for me, I think it feels like they're kind of the same. But I can see if you were maybe either a viewer or you were in the experience with people, they would seem different once you got out.

do this, and you just do pure social experiment. But that gets really hard because obviously even the contestants are savvy. But like go back to like really just leaving people alone and just seeing what they do. Or when I was working in I was working New York for a few years and I was working on a show called teen momog and that had evolved in a weird way where they started using the scenes with the producers, not all the time, just sometimes. And that was because those

girls had been on show since they was sixteen. They're now about I think Macy was about twenty four at that point when I was working with her, so they've been reality stars for like eight years. And sometimes they'd be like, I'm not going to do that because you know, they've been on the show for so long since they

can do that. And then they started using the scenes of them saying like why they didn't want to do that scene, or like why they didn't want to have a conversation with the producer, and using that in the edit because that in itself was actually now part of their story, you know, like the fight against like which parts of themselves they did or didn't want to show,

the audience was actually part of their story. So some ways, it's like like peeling back the curtain a little bit further, not saying you should have producers in your show, but maybe that's sort of something that also needs to kind of keep evolving, just because I think the audience are like, well, we know there's producers in the room with you, so it's like, don't pretend that those things aren't happening. But yeah, I mean, I don't know, it's like it's always going

to keep evolving. I have no real idea where any of it's.

cutting everything like insanely fast. Sometimes we do th cut things insanely fast because it gives you a feeling, but you know, like it's sort of being able to Like I said before, it's like skipping some of the storytelling steps because the audience doesn't need to know every single piece of information for it to make sense to them. The audience is extremely smart and savvy to how reality

television works. Now. I think maybe it would be like some of those very formatted shows like Letting the Reins Off a little bit more probably, but that's more just that something that I stylistically like. I like it when things are kind of loose and you don't have to stick to a structure. But you know, some people the structure is the thing that they like about watching those shows.

was like big entrance here. Interview that person now and then, and everything was working and everyone was firing, and all the judges were saying things at the right time. They had their little one liner, and I was like, Oh, this show's going to bomb.

of being cut in a very structured maybe format, like it was sort of just it felt a bit old fashioned to me at least, and so you know, we had all these cool things that were already happening, and then we just started cutting it differently and then yes, the reader Aura kind of season like that was using all the same tools but all the same tricks, but it's just like you want to feel something as you're

watching it. It like we I guess it was just by like taking out some of that structure and that like rigid formatting kind of of like Noll, it has to be cut this way, then it just kind of felt fresher. And I think before that, like I remember one of the editors who had worked on a previous season had been like, oh, I was told I can't use dips to black, and I was like, what what does that mean? It was like, oh, we just don't

do that on this show. And there's lots of shows where it's like, oh, we just don't do that on this show. But I'm always like, do whatever you want, Like if it makes it better, like if it makes you feel something like, cut it however you want. So I almost like probably to like some people's horror. Like I don't really have any rules of like how we cut things other than staying within like the parts of the format that we have to keep to make the

show makes sense. But it's just like, yeah, if you want to do a dip to black, if you want to do like some crazy music montage in this section, like let's just do it if it makes it feel better, And like sometimes we do that stuff and then we're like it feels a bit indulgent, whanky that bit, doesn't it,

So let's just take that pack out again. But like, giving people the freedom to like try different ways to cut things and try different ways to tell those stories is cool because like you never know what someone's going to come up with.

I was like, yes, I'm so excited. And then he was like everything you wanted him to be in more, you know, like he is like and he's someone I can tell you now after watching him for fifteen sixteen hours a day, like I've never seen a person who is more true to themselves and just nice. God, he's the loveliest man, insanely lovely. So yes, he was probably one of my favorites. I think Casey Donovan I loved

it when she was on the show. I think that whole series, like Casey, Nazim, Steve Price, like that was such an interesting collection of people that shouldn't have all been in a room together getting along, but they were and it was awesome. So No, I kind of I try not to get too involved in casting for celeb.

of a character in the mix. And we've gotten that ride the last two seasons in particular, like just like that person has sewn the whole show together. If you hadn't had Jessel Brook, I don't think the shows would

have been in any way what they were. And I also always love it when we have someone who is genuinely musically talented, because it is awesome to see Paulinie and Jack, Like I just remember hearing Paulini sing one day and she was amazing and I and I was like, God, I really want to be able to like put something to air, and so I was like, what's the song that we don't have to pay for because obviously we don't have the you know, the right that we don't

have to pay for. And we were like, amazing Grace. So we literally went to Pauline and we were like, you should sing amazing Grace. And then she went and grabbed Jack and it became like one of the pivotal moments of that series. But it's just because I was like, gosh, she's so talented, Like I just want people to hear how good she can sing.

the villain? Like are there people like that? I mean, Aby Chatfield, she puts so much content out there that it would be very easy to just either pick a string of content that makes her glowing and amazing that fits in line with how some people are seeing her.

all those parts of the story up until now. So we've been caught out on seasons of something like Big Brother where we're like, oh, let's just not put that scene to where because it's not very nice, And then the next day there's a whole story arc about the scene that you haven't shown to the audience, and everyone's like,

what the frick is everyone talking about? So you have to, in my mind, tell as close as you can to the truth of these people, because otherwise you're probably going to get yourself in trouble five episodes down the track

because you've tried to whitewash a certain situation. So for Abby, I think there was times when we showed her as like the big, bubbly person who was like the glue that was holding the whole camp together, and then there were other times when she was just like she can be an annoying character, you know, like that's part of her personality, is that, like she'll push people's buttons, or she'll like really dominate conversations about things, or she'll be

like very much talking about like you know, feminist things that like maybe don't really sit well with some of the men in the camp. So we would put those things to wear show that she people were being annoyed by that, but not put it to whereas if she was a villain that she was ruining things. It's just like, well, Abby can sometimes push people's buttons. That's the truth of who she is. She's not a villain and she's not a sho She's a person who can be both of

those things at different times. So I think that's more I would never go, well, I'm only going to show the nasty parts of this person, because then we've got our villain. Like that's we can't do that on twenty four hour turnaround shows because we'll get in trouble later, basically, like it's not going to be the truth of who they are for the rest of the series, and then I've got to like keep them as a villain for the rest of the series. That's never going to work.

take from it what they will. You know, like you would have been considered a villain because you weren't always everyone's best friends, Like you were fairly honest about what was actually going on in that house, and sometimes that's shocking to people. Like being upfront and saying the things that most people say behind people's backs, to people's faces

is kind of shocking. So that's not sort of necessarily surprising that people would look at that as like a villainous character when we're trying to like find those like very clear character tropes. But you know, I always try and if someone has got some annoying traits, I won't let them be horrifically annoying in the show, because no one wants to watch someone who's horrifically annoying. But I let them at times annoying some of the other characters because that's part of their character.

says what everyone's thinking. And it's so funny that there's a huge portion of the audience, probably the loudest portion of the audience, that use Twitter and Instagram and are more likely to comment a line that crucify her. And it's like, every time I talk to my friends about that show, they're like, no, Ben, Lisa Rinn is amazing on that show. She's wonderful. But yeah, interesting to see

the interpretations of some people. Then the loudest people online, you know, I think that's all quite fascinating.

think of Island should feel like. So fingers crossed definitely.

trying to cut a show. Two of my editor's Poula and Cas cut an interstitial of the cat that we had that was roaming around the villa. It was just as hilarious. It's like, basically the cat lies back on its back, which is what random vision we had, like the cat lies back on its back and like strokes itself kind of thing. And so it's like literally looks like a sexy package of the cat lying by the pool. And we were like, okay, let's just put it in

the show and see what the network says. And so you go into the screening at three o'clock in the morning and we get to the part where we cut to the cat intostitial and I'm just sitting there like waiting to be screened at It's like, what's this shit? Take it out? And everyone pissed themselves laughing and they were like, I was like, are you keep the catterstiial and they were like, yeah, we're keeping the cat in stitial, and that was kind of the birth of like the

Talking Villa Cat. Basically it became like a character in the show that we got to revive again this season when we went back to Spain. So sometimes the best parts of any show is just shit the post have done to entertain themselves that we somehow managed to sneak through the screenings. And that's a prime example of that. And now somehow we make a television show, we're the talking cat in it.