Imogen Banks - SAFE HOME - Executive Producer

It's in the news today, but it was actually on TV Reload, the podcast past deep their line Welcome back guys to TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris, and this is your podcast to get all the inside goss on the popular TV shows you may be watching from around the world. Undeniably, our TV sets are a major part of our home entertainment, and yet very little is

I'm very well. How are you?

I'm good? Thank you? Sorry? I should I often say how are you to people, but you never really care and you're already onto the next.

Yeah.

I know, it's such a redumbic quest. Just at anyway, I'm great, I'm glad.

Well, I'm glad. And I have to say right off the bat, I am such a big fan of your work and of all the shows. I mean, all the shows that you have done are a masterclass of Australian television.

Thank you.

I've watched Tangle and Puberty Blues and Offspring so many times I can't even tell you. There M go to when my partner goes into another room and watches something horrific, like a scary movie that no one wants to watch. Honestly, just amazing TV shows. One.

I think you should mentioned Tangle because I literally got a tasket.

About an hour ago from.

John Brawley, who was the Bokay on Tangle.

Just say Tangle series four, which could just tune into their lives now.

Out of those shows, because you know ed Oxenbold talks about you know, he tried to get puberty Blues back up and going, and everyone talks about Offspring all Brindina back. But for me, I loved Tangle. I just honestly we need a season four because the characters were so rich. It just felt like you were ripping real life.

Well we probably were. That's the point, isn't it exactly. That's the joy of the story. Yeah, we are.

And it's funny because you don't often think about I don't know, you're always so busy working that that really you don't really look back very often.

Or I got, what did working on Tangle teach you though about working on scripto drama here in Australia.

Well, it's interesting because I actually hadn't been around as a producer for long before that at all.

That was really the first show that I.

Was involved in the development of. I made a show before that, because it took longer to get Tangled up. But I made a fock sape show called Dangerous, which was the first thing that I was ever involved in as a producer, and I co produced that, and that was very much my training ground. But Tangle is being developed over the court of that. So Tangle kind of taught me everything. It taught me what the story room is.

It taught me a lot about direction, actually a lot of learned. I learned a lot about.

Directors and how directors work from Tangle in a way that I think when I was in Dangerous, you know, I mean, obviously I learned a fusion out on that, but I was I was that was very much a sinkle to be in kind of you know, just like hold your breath and go for it and hope the best I learned about casting, you know, I learned how about the different decisions that you can make about you know, who you work with, and how that kind of impacts and affect the on screen dynamic.

I remember the last season three to me just sort of built and built and built, and then a lot of that came down to these performances of these young people who some of them never worked before, I.

Know, and most of them still working out to all though incredibly you know, I mean, I love, love love bucking to you know, Lincoln, you feel because of the him, you know, I've seen it all sorts of being and he's just such a divid human and I love for such a big three Roger Blood, you know, I mean that most of them have gone on to keep working. I think that just something that you were saying before about season three. The things that I've most learned Entangled

Than one season. It's that idea of iteration and the lessons.

That you learn in season one and how you take them into the development of season two and you lean into things that you've noticed, things that are working. You try and sort of push away from things that weren't. No ideas that didn't land in the way that.

You hope they would. You see relationships.

Form, and I don't mean, you know, I don't mean the romantic relationship. Who has been sort of relationships between characters on screen that you haven't really considered because you were focusing on another plot or another sort of storyline that was being developed.

So you see opportunity.

In a season that you're then taken to the next season.

And that's one of the most.

Fun things about serious television is that is that you get to kind of play with these people that suddenly exist in the world, you know, outside of outside.

Of the collective imagination of a group of people make the show.

They suddenly sort of they are there as characters, and so you get to.

Sit around and consider what you might want seem to do.

I mean, you've been very lucky, I think in lots of ways with the shows. I mean, Offspring had an amazing one, like it just kept coming back and people kept being more and more involved with these characters. But why do you think that shows in Australia don't usually see a run as long as something like Offspring?

Look, it's partly to do with the sort of the structural or the structure of the industry. It was partners to do with the way that's sort of the tax off set work, partners to do with the way that

You know, it was at a time where Asha Ketty was just really hot property, and I guess, yes, we've got to see her do party tricks and a lot of other things as well. But she must have really loved that character to come back, and so must have Kat Stewart, you know, you know, option them, and you can offer actors money. They have to love these characters and want to come back.

Yeah.

Well, I was going to say sort of, you know, I say all of that, but then most of the pass were out of option on Offspring, and you know, and they collectively decided to come back. One of your jobs of a producer is to create an environment for people want to work it, you know. I mean you're managing groups of people, and I do think that, you know, because if you want to keep people happy and you want to keep working with people, then yeah, you have to kind of create an environment people.

Want to return to. So and also you want to be making show because.

People love, you know, seeing anyone to create characters. You want the writers to creact characters that you know, cast want to inhabit.

So Nina was such a big part of Ash's.

Life so long, Billy was such a big part of cat Fluff so long.

It's hard to give that up.

You ask people like so I felt, you know, they're like, oh, we have to we have done at that point. But truth be told, you know, I've heard from other people that have met Joey Lewis Droppers and Jerry Seinfeld, and they're like they want to get out when they get out, but then they're like, it's in there, fiber, it's in their bones.

It's also that.

Thing that you know, those relationships stuff.

At that point, you know, it's not like real people in the real world where you can check in and see what they're up to and how they've aged and what their relationships, you know, and all the rest of it. You know, those lives stop the moment that you stop performing Nina and he doesn't exist, you know, there's not you can't check in with her. So I think it's also that you know they're huge relationships. But I mean that was what eight years You know that those calfs

But the writing was good with that. You know. Sometimes you made them do wicked things and then you're like, oh God, how can Billy come back from this? You know what I mean. You had those moments as an audience, thinking God actually going to come back from this. But then you just love earning more for the for the mistake you would think. You know, I have a really embarrassing confession point. Oh, I love the theme song to Puberty Blues so much that I've got it and I

I love hearing that.

That's hilarious. Well, what's funny.

To me is that I'm currently because I've got a Freendi's Nat pay Fie and I'm staying at a hotel.

And I'm saying I'm staying in Pudgy at the Pudgy Bay Hotel.

Or don't however at school, but.

It's above it's been turned into some hotels, but it's.

Above Lena, which was this you know music that was is in music, then that in there. You know, I don't want to say hello I am, but in the day I think I came here and saw Dragon plays, so there you go.

Oh I'm very jealous. Anyway, people will be like I've tuned in because they want to hear about Yeah, I know, You're like, come on, get to safe Home. I just have to say it's so compelling as a series, you know, and I would say it is the most compelling series I have seen made here in Australia. And I turned around once I watched the four parts and looked at my partner, who isn't mad for television like me, and he said, that's the best TV series I've ever seen.

That is really really lovely to be thank you.

Safe Home, I would say, he's going to find its audience. And I wanted to ask you what was the decision making process with finding it at SBS.

Oh, look, it was really fine thing one. It was an interesting, it's been a very sort of stuff experience of television, this one because I set tindling up really at the beginning of last year and we were introduction on this in the past last year. Afterwards, the kindling up it was. It was one of those sort of perfect synchronicities. So Anna Barnes, who wrote it, preout of the show so beautifully.

She had a bible and she had the first.

Episode and she was sort of pitching it around.

She was sent to me at the same time as Julie.

Kuslee at SBS, who's the new positioner there, who was previously producer, who.

Had never met. In fact, she rang me.

She was rang out of the blue and she said, look, you know this project doing around, you should take a look at it, you know, I'm just you know, out of interest.

Yea, she just sort of mentioned it anyway.

It had come to me with you know, I know that An was sort of children to very speak about it. I read it, and I sort of read it with half an eye close because I wasn't necessarily looking to make a show about family violence.

But is it a show? I mean, I'm going to get into this world. Well, by the time you'd finished working on it, did you think it was about family one? Or did you think it was about paraplan?

But I think that this is the beauty of what Anna has constructed, is that if the is about family, VINE think it's about.

So much more.

And the way that she was able to kind of access the material through all sorts of sort of other lenses, I suppose. So it wasn't I don't I'm not interested in making television that is.

A chore to watch, you know. I think that I want to kind of.

Consider the audience, want to make me anything, sort of consider the audience, And I think that was what was so attractive to me about this project.

But it was about an issue.

That is so incredibly important, but it cracks the issue open for me in a way that a lot of the projects that I've previously seen on the subject matter didn't. They were sort of felt like, you know, lectures, and this felt like a show that was about relationships good and bad, and that was bly binary and it's not. And I think that was the only thing I liked about it was that it was about the kind of a slow grind and it's about the as you say,

Of autonomy in relationships.

And I think that that's sort of lies at the bottom of all of these things. But it's something that I'm interested in, you know, other dramas that I'm making as well. It's sort of it's about that idea of lots of instinct and loss of autonomy and sort of how that feels.

And I love that she accessed the material just slightly off to the side, so it was, you know, through the eyes.

Of somebody who works in communications that it's very much about stories and how we tell stories and the responsibility of storytelling and these are all things that al considering, you know, in a very different way in setting up a new company. It's like, you know, what are the stories they want to tell?

Two are the people I want to work with? How do I want to sort of approach this next stage of my life? You know, what do I care about? What do I value? What's the posion that I'm in now?

And how can I kind of make you know, how can I make a difference in people careers and all of those things.

So I love that this is the show. It was about all of these really important issues, but that was very much through the lenses of, you know.

The responsibility storytelling and how we and how the stories that we tell aspect our ability to understand situations that we're in.

We all want to level up in our careers. We all want to find something new, We want to get to that thing. And I feel like you've done this with this particular series. And I also really appreciated how much we never lost sight of the story with the intonated characters. You know, we are following chapter characters, and when you watch series like this before, which don't do it so well, you're like, ah, it's this character now,

You go, yeah, it really did. I mean, she was we were talking about this last night.

You know what was sort of the difference between the end results and what she's sort of imagined.

And initially pitched and the detailing. There's a lot of detail.

It's very different to what she originally did, but the architecture absolutely was there from the start. You know, the ideas were so strong and clear from the start, and that's you know, the strength of Anna is as.

A human being really and as a writer.

She's so incredibly clear about what she's saying and why she's doing it and how she wants how she wants to say it.

Is it harder to make a show with a subject matter as important as domestic violence when it comes to scriptive drama, because I mean, you know, purity Blues and Offspring and all these other ones. You know, they weren't tackling something like Likens. So I can imagine when you are telling a story like this, you'd have to be so careful, you know, the fragility of you understanding what

It isn't it easing?

I mean, I think it looks look it is because I think is very much aware of the way of responsibility. We had, you know, incredible support. You know, we have a lot of people to come and talk to us, a lot of people you read, I'm one of a lot of people, I mean people in me in that sector. And it comes from that step that you know, she worked as a communication specialist at a couple of sale fees in Victoria, so she knows a lot of people in the world.

Had a little of vise on us and a lot of advice.

And there was very encouraging of the kind of the dynamics and the banter and the black humor, which which was sort of really nice to have that the permission to keep those relationships in the community center kind of light and dark.

Yeah exactly. I think you know.

I mean we made this Isson's very early on that we weren't particularly interested in showing phisical viole. You know that this is not necessarily so about kind of big acts physical violence, except for popicly one massive one, but that we were interested in showing the kind of a slow gline of the sorts of relationships, you know, I want to say relationships. We were talking about the economic aviews or course of control, you know, these other types

Well, we have seen that before, and I think we saw that in Big Little Lives, and it was handled quite well in that and I understand that. But I was very aware of the fact that you were choosing not to show us that, which I was almost appreciative of. But I think that's also the accessibility of Safe Home, is that what you are showing is a lot of

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, And I think I mean there's a great there's a great piece that and has written up, you know in one of the later.

Episodes, which is there that there's the love of.

Your life doesn't necessarily country in first and the first day, you know, and it's and it's the truth about it's sort of it's not like it's sort of dismantling that monster is the idea that there's got to use as a monsters there are.

People that love.

Did you want people to be in their homes watching these episodes and having conversations with who they're watching it with. You did you think that that was a part of the reason as to why you wanted to talk about this.

Anything that you can do that cracks open, you know, an issue like this, I mean, it's such a basic problem. You know, it's not it's not something that happens to a few people. Is something that happens to a lot of people. You know, these are there are a lot of relationships. Anything you can do that kind of sheds light and sheds new light on the way that you know,

These destroyed lives.

Well, I mean the statistics are there. I mean, with violence against the women in Australia, I mean, it's a it's a huge problem. And there is a moment in a show where they openly discuss people's hesitancy to discuss it in the media. You see your protagonists saying, you know, trying so hard to get even any kind of mainstream media to talk about it.

Yeah, no, no, no, and I think.

It's the thing.

It's sort of stifficult because you kind of say these sort of a normally picked kind of you know, the family violence or women are week murdered or.

You know whatever.

You see statistics all the time, and you see these sort of big, usful statements, and that was you know, I mean very much what these show is about. It's about sort of trying to kind of like tell these specific time of nuanced stories behind those statistics, sort of open open it up a bit and sort of open the conversation up a bit about you know, what it

The greatest statistical group.

Oh you know, we are talking you know, male violence, male male probetrator, and FEMA mostly in the show. But yeah, we wanted to show how it's experienced and that sort of flows.

Through also for everyone that I'm listening to this, Yes, this is about the subjects that we're talking about today, but it is also the most beautifully active series and at times where these characters are facing some of the most terrific circumstances you are, there is still a lot of joy as in audience watching these actors bring it to life. Like two particular actors. I mean, I know

You know, I'm going to put that on the gym. Yeah, they're remarkable.

I've worked for Antonio for.

Which by the way, and yeah, I mean.

He brings it all together like as in without her, like you know, she is the cornerstone of that show, and she manages to do that without being a recognizable face, you know, for so long, it's like, oh, well, we're going to make this show, but we're going to make sure we've got a bank of a star. You know,

She needs to be a household man.

She's amazing. Yeah, she's incredible.

And I think that that was the thing when we were looking we were trying to figure out, you know, how to cast this show and how to cast and I just knew that we needed we needed someone at the center of this who had that kind of like warm, who could draw people in, who could kind of hold all the complexities of that character, you know, because she's a that's a complicated character, but he's a kind of guide and step an audience through it. Really with the warp,

You know, it's acceptible.

They're a relationships within it that ain't going to kind of hold you and keep you invested really in the drama. So so yeah, so we just need a bad which is very hard fun.

Because you've worked with so many of those recognizable in Claudia Harvanasher, Kettycat Stewart, like people that can get a show made because you know, people go, oh, I'll watch that.

No which I love this.

I love to say no sbs. So Julie, I could who commission is Crpady with thoughts they were going to they were mean, They was fantastic. Can I just say they were so supportive and so great to work it on, these like really great collaborators as commissioners. They really wanted us to kind of go well with the past things. So it wasn't about thanks to stars, you know, in that sort.

Of that traditional expense.

I mean, it's very much about It's more about how do we invite an.

Audience to watch this?

And obviously sometimes you do sort of need to do that by putting in familarly.

Faces, but I think it was more with us.

It was more about if we were putting in the familarly face, It was about sort of bringing it very much. Was that sort of inviting an audience to feel safe watching it, you know, and just feel kind of confident watching it, rather than it being you know, let's get as many idols as you can. I mean obviously you would want that. I mean, you know, you want people watching you make television because.

You want people to watch it.

This, like I said, this show, this would very much.

Be Yeah, I think this will be a word of mouth show. People World of had a long tail she pleased about I think.

So, I mean a she was, you know, I mean, she she's obviously got you know, she's obviously got a profile, you know, Shenew Bold type which was a big show. But as you say, I don't think Australia.

Really understands that she's Australian. I mean I realized for this, but I didn't really you know, I didn't grow up watching subtle clubs too old, you know, it was it was not my thing. So I didn't know the Double Club. I didn't really haven't really kind of engaged with the

And I never really thought that she'd do it because I was young.

To me, I was like, oh, she's you know, she's in Australian who built her career in the state, and so she's obviously chosen to make a life in a career there and not here. So why would she come back to you know, the Melbourne in the winter to make it full up show about family vows, you know?

But anyway she did anyway, So yeah, so we're really.

Lucky what she said, yes, because she does carry you know, she character way of the show so beautifully.

I was going to ask you about the is it makes sense that I think that there's this writer strike that's going on in the US And I don't know how much you want to buy into that, but do you think that we need to value our writers a little bit more in Australia? Do you think that's a conversation that's a global conversation.

Well, that's really I think that I think that we need to kind of consider the impact of the changes of the kind of the orastructure of the industry.

So which really.

Means, you know, what does it mean the global rights to be brought by streaming companies? You know, what does that mean for you know, the ongoing income and the rights for you know, creating for people who's you know, created ip for you know, how is how does this all work structurally going forward? So I think that it's a very important conversation. And that's that's global I think when you are I think.

That I think that it's difficult to bring too much of.

The US culture to Australian, sure, just because the economics is so different. But I think that when you are dealing with global companies that are buying global rights, then I think that you know, it does need to be you know, we need to figure out what's fair and equitable and how to kind of how to pay people properly.

Yeah, I mean with the writing. I mean, the show's really on these good as the writing, and you can have a great actor, but even still, you know, you need to have them to have you need for them to say the right words, you know what I mean, Like they need the work at that level. So it is about sort of valuing everyone that works on that pie, who we're putting on the puzzle together, so to speak.

You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it is interesting and it's hard to be able to stand up and say Hey, what about the person who does this in my department? Do you know what I mean? It is hard, So yeah, I guess that it's important for them to be able to do this. I have also had someone ask me to ask you this question. I don't know if this is something that you ask answer all the time. What is the most important life advice that you've ever been given to be a good producer and a good human?

Wow?

I think that's for me the most important thing now.

I think it's just really clear about what you.

Care about and you know, sort of the impact that you want to have in the world. So I think that it's just being Again, there's real things I've been thinking about. I think a lot of people have over the past four years of so since the pandemics probably and for me also in setting up a new company, it's been very much about what do I want to be putting out into the world, Like how do I want to be? You know, it's not you know that sounds very earnest and I don't manage because I'm seriously

What is something from behind the scenes, something that we won't see, we'd say time, something of the behind the scenes secret, something maybe funny that happened while you'll make it, or maybe it's funny. That's sort of an anecdote of behind the scenes.

The first scene of the show where Asia Phoebe is on the balcony kind of considering the beginning of that speech, where the others.

A song playing, the dancing about the balcony, trying to think of the third one.

Of the speech yeah, that was the pick up scene. We shot that after we shot the first episode. Wow, So we constructed that late, you know, after we've edited the thirst.

So we were like, we needed in the beginning, how do we tend this series is more energy and are more pumps?

And that was what we came up with, and Stevie went off. Cev threw Martin.

Actually lady in German who we haven't spoken with early about. She directed Little Ball and she's compreeble ah, Yeah, I see who and often shot that.

Well, oh my god, that was a really good one. That's probably the best one that I've had in the last fifty episodes. So you're like, I can't do this, by the way, here have this? Well, I just want to say thank you so much for your generosity with your time today talking and talking to me about all of this. I am such a fan of your work and I will be in your audience for a long

For saying all of those things, and think of you for bored