Welcome back to TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris, and on this podcast I'll be going behind the scenes with the biggest players in television today. On the podcast, I have Maz Farreley, whose credits include Executive Editor of Format Entertainment for BBC, Creative Strategists for BBC Worldwide Australia, and Director of Format Entertainment for Freemantle Media Australia. What Maz does best is putting people on screen that makes
you want to watch. Chances are you've watched some of her work, or probably all of it, as she has made shows like X Factor Q and A Big Brother, Farmer Wants a Wife, Dancing with the Stars. Actually, if I was to list them all, we'd probably be here all day. So let's get started with some exclusive content as we find out how these shows get made.
The most important thing in car Stang I go Australia. This is It's just to be you. This is Dancing with the Stars. You think about all the people that you love on TV. James, You're fired, They're different, this is Big Brother. If you are different, it is the greatest gift in your life, so celebrate it.
How are you Matt's Are you good, darling?
I am absolutely rock star, sensational, and thank you so much for having me on your podcast. The enormous number of people that you could choose, I'm delighted you've chosen me. Thank you very much.
You know I have admired you so much, and I know so many people in the industry have revered your career. But today what I want to do is give the people what they want, and that is how the hell do you get cast in television?
You have to be super interesting and everybody is fascinating. This is absolutely true. Everybody has an amazing story. But sometimes people speak in cliches. I call it white noise. So I would say to people, I'm big brother, and I know the softba Parks have said it about seventy five thousand times. Tell me about you. Tell me why you should be on the show. You have one minute to tell us why you are better than everyone else outside. Don't tell me you're the life and stud of the party.
You're a real poper. You really want to win that She's going to give it one hundred and ten percent. I'm nervous, but excited. Don't tell me that, because when you do you sound like everybody else? Tell me why you are different? And most people say, well, I'm a real people person. No stop, Remember I said, don't tell me that, because that makes you sound like everybody else.
So the people that really stood out for me there was a girl, Constance Hall, and I love Constance and she said, do you know what, I'm not a people person. I really don't like people. I find them incredibly disappointing. You know, they say they're going to do something and then they don't, and I just find people really disappointing. I'm not a people person. Loved her. There was a
guy called farmer Dave. He came in. I said, yeah, you're beautiful, and you've been to like one hundred countries and you know, he'd sent him pictures of him on a horse like mate, and he was just you know, wow, And I said, how is it possible you're single? And he said, it's hard to find a farmer's wife when you're looking for a man. Brilliant. And the other one was a girl, Geneva was her name. We put her on the show as well. She was brilliant. And he said,
you know, tell me where you're different. What's different? About you. You're not life and soul blah blah blah. And she said, what's different about me? She said, basically, I'm a lesbian, but I can't seem to give up cock. Sorry, what did you say? And she said pretty much bad lesbian. I'm just a bad lesbian and we went, oh my holy lord wow. And you think you have one minute
to impress everyone in the world. Producers, you know, if you're going for venture capital, if you're going for an interview, if you're you know, going on a date, The first minute you meet someone is so vital and you have to know who you are, what you do, and why you do it, say in an interesting way, otherwise you're dead on the water. You want to do this show so badly, you have to have your first minute prepared. You can't walk in there and say, you know, I
really I just want Australia to love me. And you know, a people person, I'm the life and soul of the party. White noise cliches, can't hear it. White noise, just it's dead, dead sound. So know your story.
But the thing in your book about that one minute is so vital. And I always say to people when you get in there. Just tell them the things that have happened to you in your life that makes you different to other people. And when I auditioned for the show, you know, at the time, my partner and I were both doing the exact same job, but we hadn't told my employer, so my partner at home with the same name, Ben,
was doing the job from home. However, I was the person out on the road, so I told them I'm really really crap with attention to detail, but my partner's really good at it. But i love talking to people and hearing stories. So I'd go and meet people and then I'd get all the stories, ring my partner on the way home, ring him on the phone, and be like, blah blah blah, she said this and this. I never
would see them again. He would have all of the information and he would follow them up, run the campaign, talk to them on the phone. They never knew anything. So I say to people, even if it is a little bit sinister, even if it could be perceived as being, you know, not that likable, if it's your truth and that story is available to you, you should tell that story.
The most important thing in casting and frankly in life and I can say this because I'm seven hundred years old now. Is just to be you. You are the best version of you. There is no one better at being you than you. And the things that make you different are the things that are utterly beautiful about you and what you don't want to be. And anyone who's young who's listening to this, you do not want to be vanilla gray, because when you are, I can throw a dart into a crowd and hit anyone and you're
all the same. If you're different, that it's the greatest gift you can have. You think about all the people that you love on TV and in music, they're different, they're different. If you are different, it is the greatest gift in life. So celebrate it. Whatever is different about you, make it your thing.
Yeah.
Before I worked in TV, I as a stylist and I loved people who looked different. I remember Kate Moss coming to see me and she was small, you know, she's probably about five five five six, and all the other models were six foot. She was different and she had a really different look. Her eyes were strange and her face was a bit strange, and it worked so beautifully. I booked her for a beauty gig, and you know, there were loads of people who looked like Cinda Crawford
and you know, she's extraordinarily beautiful. But Kate Moss was different. And you know, I tell you Kate Moss is you know who she is?
Oh? Yeah, what an icon. It allowed people to relate to her. It made people feel like I could be a model. You know, I'm not classically this, I'm not classically that, but I could aspire to that. And that's the that's where I think we've lost a bit of the magic with television these days, is it should be aspirational.
So there's a guy called Dave Trot who's an advertising genius, and he says this, in a room of one hundred people, if you look like everyone else, how much of my attention do you have?
None?
Yeah, if you look different to everybody else, you jump to fifty percent because there's you and then there's everyone else. So suddenly, just the fact that you're different. If I'm the only woman in the room, I have fifty percent of the attention, which is brilliant. If I'm the only foreigner, that's wonderful. Any person from you know, so anything that's different about you is your greatest gift. And whether it's physical or you know, it's part of your nature, your
you know, your personality, absolutely grab it, develop it. And Melby is Melby is honest. That is her thing. It makes her really different. She's really confident, she's you know, she's not the most beautiful, she's not the smartests, not the cleverest. But what she is is she has a disarming honesty. She is, you know, absolutely insanely honest, and we love her for it. That's her thing.
Zach No, I don't think you've got a bad voice at all. I don't.
I think that you'd really overstang that and it was actually really annoying your interpretation of it.
Well, I don't doubt.
That you can say, oh, be quiet, gay, it's okay, it's okay.
I love that you just mentioned Melby because I think she's great. But it's just one of the many reality shows that you've worked on. I know this is a bold question to ask because most people shy away from it, but Mas, I know you well enough to know you'll give you the answer. What is the best and the worst reality TV gigs you've worked on? Not that they failed or they succeeded, but in your mind the best and the worst.
So I have a few bests. I like shows where people really succeed. So the X Factor was great because you see people going off and having great careers, and that is a beautiful thing to see because you really want them to succeed. I like Farmer Wants a Wife because they go off and they fall in love and they get married and they have kids. I love Big Brother because I am a very nosy, curious, inquisitive. Like I say to people, I'm like a street fighting psychologist.
I have spent my life watching people, and it's because I love it. I'm fascinated by how people behave and why they behave in a certain way. I'm so wildly interested. The worst show I think would be a dancing show that we made when I was at Fremantle and it was called Everybody Dancing Now, and we called it Nobody Watched Now because nobody watched it, and nobody watched it because it wasn't very good.
It's audition time. Our dance master is no talent.
When they see.
It, Kelly Rowland and Jason de Wola decide who will make it through to the Big Arena.
Everybody Dares Now starts Sunday, August twelfth.
On ten.
So yeah, pretty much every show I've made has either been number one, won award, or been recommissioned, except that one. I think it lasted four nights, which was probably three nights too long.
Wow, were you aware that this show wasn't going to work?
Yeah? I think so, I think in my heart. And I spoke to my boss about it, and he said, you know, I think you're being negative, and I don't think I am. And you know, I said to you, I'm a bit of a street fighter, you know, I kind of am. I'm very intuitive, and you know I've done this a lot. You know, I'm not an expert in budgeting or housekeeping. I'm a shocking girlfriend, but I am extraordinarily good at making content. It is my superpower. And yeah, I just didn't think it would work. And
we did the best with it. You know, we did our best, but it wasn't good enough, which is really hard. It's very hard to work on the show that you think isn't. You can do everything you can to make it work, but it just simply didn't work. The format didn't work. It just didn't make sense.
A bit of a MythBuster that we can have for the audience that's listening now. You know a lot of people have auditioned for reality shows before, and there's a bit of a misconception that you walk into a room, meet a producer and they shake your hand and put you into the you know, onto the stage or into the house or and there's there's a very long process that happens, you know, finding the right cast that matches together.
What's the average time from when a person walks in and meets you then to them being on television.
Probably about because probably about three months, four months. It's quite a long time a because there are lots of things that you have to do. You send them off to be psych tested, you do police checks, do health checks. You can't have twelve people who are identical. So you find someone. So this is how I do it. You find someone that you think is the glue and the other person everyone's going to like, and then you build a cast around them. So you'd be the glue. On
the Celebrity Apprentice, it was Julia Morris. You know, people like FITZI and the glue. You know, it's impossible not to like fitsy, it's just a really good bloke and you meet him, you go, you know, you've got a really fair crack at winning this. And then you build and you build a cast around them, and you know yourself, if you're having pals over, you don't invite. You know, six friends were exactly the same. Yeah, you have six friends were exactly the same. You know. We like variety,
so you cast it sort of like a drama. So if you were writing it as a drama, you would cast those people. But it is a really long process, and we want to be sure that you're emotionally robust enough to do it. So I give people what I call my talk of doom. And interestingly, someone well, maybe
this isn't interesting at all. I think it's interesting. Someone sent me my friend Lucien sent me a link to Luis Throux's podcast and it was with a guy called god what's his name, Raylan rylan Lan Yes, and he said, I think he's talking about you. And I listened to it and I went, oh, yeah, he's talking about me. And he said, So I went into the audition and there was this woman there and she talked to me.
He said something like she talked to me like shit, and I thought, I don't think that was but then when he said what I'd said, absolutely it was me.
And there was this woman and she spoke to me like shit, but on purpose, because she told me that you will probably be hated. You will probably get voted out first, you won't earn any money, and when you come out, you will not be famous. But you won't be able to go and work in a shop because people will keep coming up to you, going and you that idiot from Big Brother? Are you that this? Are you that that? And it will take you a long time.
And back then it was really scary. I now understand why that's done because at that stage people do go, oh, no, I'm not doing it. Then I'm not doing it. I don't want to do it.
And he said. This woman said to me, look, you know you think everyone's going to love you, They probably won't. And you'll be too famous to go back to your job, but not famous enough to be famous. So when you go back to try and work in the shoe shop and people are walking and pointing at you not buying shoes, the owner will get rid of you. So you probably won't have a job everyone that you've ever dated will sell this story. You think that you'll be the person
off the telling that everyone loves you, probably won't. How many times have you been in the bar and you go, there's that idiot off the telly. You don't think that idiot will be you. It will be I promise you. And by the way, you'll think that we've shown you in a way that is detrimental to you. You think that we've shown you in a way that isn't true, and that you know, why would I do that. I don't care who wins, because it's not me. I'm not winning the money. I don't care who wins. If you
don't kiss someone, I can't show it. If you don't fight someone, I can't show it. If you do it, we'll show it because it's reality and it's honest. And he repeated all of this, and I'm like, oh, that that is me. And then he said something. It was lovely, he said, and I see why she did it, because she wanted me to know what fame is like and what it's going to be like.
Interestingly enough, he didn't get cast on that civilian series of Big Brother. He then went on to do X Factor and then from X Factor got selected to be on Celebrity Big Brother and he won Celebrity Big Brother. But he said something in the podcast which is the true magic of this story, and that is that he wasn't ready. He needed that chat you as a producer. And this is where people need to be kinder about
reality television at the moment. I know there's a lot of negativity in that space, but I can I guarantee you from my experience and knowing you and knowing the women that are working in these roles like Amelia Fisk and Keeley, who genuinely care about the casting process and about who they're going to put on the show. They're not going to ruin you. They're going to help you to be exactly who you are and have a good experience.
Do people see themselves on the screen and they say that it's bad editing, But a lot of people have a really strong disconnect as to who they.
Really are, totally, Benjamin. No one sees themselves twenty four hours a day, and reality TV is an enormous mirror that is placed right in front of you. And when we did The Celebrity Apprentice, the Fabulous Danny Hines called me and she said, look, I think you know I'm not being portrayed in a really great way. You know that I look like I'm fighting everyone what you were
fighting everyone. I said that cal Julia Morris and cool Max Markson ask them if it's honest, and that you were like that, and I said, back in an hour if you completely disagree, we'll talk about it. And she caught me back in an hour and she said, they said that was much worse. I think your word, Earling, Yes, And I love Denny. Denny's another one. What you see is what you get. She was just honest. If she was cross, she was cross, and she didn't pretend she wasn't,
which is quite confronting for people. So yeah, I think you have to have a real duty of care. And my old boss on my first ever Big Brother, a guy called Philka Jones, the loveliest, sweetest human in the world, and he gathered all of us together. He said, the most important thing on this show is this, and we're all waiting for you know, the highest ratings or you know, police don't sleep with each other, and he said, the most important thing is these people feel safe and looked
after and then we make a TV show. But number one, they have to trust us, and that's why there's such a big process. And you do send people off to be psych tested to make sure they're strong enough to do it, and you make sure that you do please checks. So I don't know when you have a criminal record or not, but I do need to know because if you've bashed in, you know, an old lady, or you've been selling drugs to kiddies, I don't want you to win.
It's not great, you know, or bashing your partner. So we do, you know, as much as we can, and we also have a duty of care to make sure that the people who are on are robust enough to do it and you know that they can cope with it.
Do you think we need to do more in the space of looking after these contestants coming out of these shows.
Yes, I think so. I mean I made it seventy four thousand years ago when social media wasn't really the thing it is now. But I think what would be great is if there was an independent company that looked after all reality stars, reality people for all networks and you could call them, you know, any time, and there was psyche you know, where the sych was available to you. I think that would be great.
Reality television is really interesting no matter who you are, and you might think you'll be the Chrissy Swan or the FITZI. Everyone goes back to exactly who they were when they auditioned for the show. I truly believe this. You know, I was always wanting to do red carpet and interview people, and I was always on the precipice of that, but had never really achieved great success. I'm still there. I went back to that same spot. Reality
TV is not going to save you. It's just going to be an experience, like a summer holiday that you can go, Wow, that was cool.
I try to arm people before they go in. I think. I mean, my greatest advice to everyone is switch off your social media. You know, if it starts to get negative, just switch it off and don't look at it. I know it's really hard to do that, but it's the opinion of people who don't know you, and you know, people would write terrible things about my shows, and I think, you know what, you couldn't make it. It's really hard to do this, So I'm not going to listen to you.
I'm just your opinion is not valid to me unless it's, you know, a really a smart, critical opinion. But you know, people would write terrible things and you kind of go, I just don't care. I mean, I did this show Reality Check and it was on the ABC, and my friends would send me tweets of things that people have said about me, and I used to find it really funny because you think you've got to have a sense
of humor about it. And someone had said, this woman looks like Nancy sponge AND's mum, and Nancy Spungeen was punk who dated Sid Vicious, and that week, to be fair, I did. And another week I was wearing a piece of jewelry and someone tweeted, this woman looks like a kid made a jewelry. I mean, you know, God forbid, I should have children. But it did look like it had been made by a seven year old. And you're fair enough. And I rape to both of them and said, absolutely,
you're absolutely right. My rules for anyone who's criticizing me on social media you have to use correct grammar, and it has to be funny. And if you troll me and you're funny and the grammar is correct, then I will engage, but I think just switch it off, you know, don't listen. It's the opinion of people who don't know you, who are a bit angry about their own lives, and just don't eGain.
You know who's a gorgeous woman is Lisa McSweeney. And she was like a housemate minded that looked after all the housemates, and she said to me, Ben, there's all these people that are saying all this nasty stuff, but just remember they're actually talking about themselves. You know. What they're saying about you usually is an opinion they have
of themselves. So when I got that piece of information and then was really heavily trolled after the show, anytime someone said something really disturbing, I didn't take it personally. I thought I immediately clicked with that information and thought, that's how they must feel about themselves, that they're ugly, or they don't like their voice, or you know, whatever it is. These things they just emulated that.
If you're happy, you're not going to troll people. You know, I'm a happy little soul. I don't feel any need to go online and be awful about people. I can't see the point. And also it's just not very kind, be kind. I want to do a workshop that's one
hundred days of kindness that you just you ban. You know, people do drive your line January and you think, let's do January where you're just really kind and you don't lie, and you don't beep anyone, and you know, you pay for coffee for the person behind you, and you tell three people that day how beautiful they look, and you help someone who looks like they might need it instead of you know, buying a bottle of wine, buy a cheaper one, give that money to someone, Surprise people with
some act of kindness. And I think we do lots of negative stuff. I'm going to give up. I'm going to stop dot dot dot. And you think, no, why don't you do the opposite and start doing something amazing. Imagine imagine what it be like. It'd be amazing, So let's do it.
One of the interesting things I was wanting to talk to you about is the lack of diversity that's on reality television at the moment. You know, we've come a long way, but we're only starting to get there.
You know.
The truth behind you know, seeing a lack of diversity on screen is because a lot of people of color don't apply because they think, oh, that's not for me, that's you know, middle class white people go on those shows. But I think the more and more that we can create that space so that diversity can be seen, maybe then we will see, you know, like a person of the Bachelorette or the Bachelor.
I think it's difficult. I can't be it if I can't see it. And all the shows that I've made, I've made an extraordinary effort to be as diverse as possible, and sometimes on shows it's really really, really really hard. And I did a show in the UK and I really wanted to have a black family because everyone who
applied was white and middle class. And I said to my team's you know advertising, the West Indian Times and the African Times and go to you know, this club and that club and this sports place and this place, and go to this town and this you know church and this everything. And I think we managed to get one family. But it took us, you know, probably a
week of work. Whereas you put an ad up, you know, for four seconds and you say families needed and you get you know, So it's about actually making a little bit more of an effort and you have to. And I feel very not proud, but I feel very pleased that in the UK on Big Brother we had a very diverse cast and I really really like that. So we had I think we had the first transgender person.
Now I think we had two transgender pers one in the UK and one here and a guy who won one year had tourets And you think, imagine applying for Big Brother and you have tourettes. I mean, it's just phenomenal, isn't that.
You know what's interesting? Reality TV has really changed. What is the biggest significant change about making it from when it started, you know, because you were there for the really the inception of it, to how it's being made now.
So there are two things. One, I think that we've become a little bit lazy as an industry. And I think that is because the same producers go from one show to the next, and it's like the same chefs going from one restaurant to the next. All the restaurants suddenly taste the same. And I would say to my teams were not allowed to use cliches. So there's a lovely woman, Caroline Spencer Spence, she calls them no shit
sharelocks that you go no shit sharelock. So it's a bit like you're interviewing Yoursain Bolt in the Olympics on the start line. Then you'd say, do you think you're gonna win this? You know, do you want to do you want to win this? They kind of go, well, of course I want to win it. I'm I'm in the Olympics. Of course I want to I mean, of course. But in reality people would say things like, I really want to win this, but of course it's a competition.
You're idiot, of course, you know, but it's bad producing. Or they'll say, how are you today, I'm nervous but excited. That's everybody in every reality show in the history of reality shows says exactly the same thing. I'm nervous but excited. Everyone says it. Now. I say to my team, ask them, why why are you nervous? Well, I've never sung in public before. Why because my mum wants me to be a lawyer. And says to my dad because my dad's a lawyer, and says my uncle and says my brother
and says my granddad. Ah, right, okay, So are they here today?
Yes?
Do they know you're here. No, right, okay, where are they? Just out there brilliant. So you get a camera on the parents and you say, we're just talking to some audience members. Why are you here today? Well, you know, our kid got as tickets? Oh as your kids sing? No, my kid's a lawyer. Oh right, okay. Do they want to sing? Have they ever sung? Have you ever seen them sing? No? No, no, no, no no no. Where
are they today? They're at work? Oh okay. And you have the kid walk on stage, you have the parents go yikesy, and suddenly you have a beautiful, beautiful story. It doesn't matter whether the kid can sing or not. If they can sing, it's wonderful. If they can't sing, you know, you just end it by saying, you know the jury is out, you're runner or whatever, but you know it's really good. Producers are curious people, and if you are one of those producers says they've said nervous
but excited, tick, then you're never going anywhere. But if you are interested in people and you think differently, then you will always come up with the story. People are fascinating. But it's our job to find that fascinating story because sometimes you have to really scratch and dig to find it, and it's your actual job. So I'd say to my teams they go, oh, there's nothing interesting about this person. They go, of course there is, but it's your job
to find it. It's your job. That's why I employ you. It's to go and find that amazing story. It's actually your job.
What do you think about pre recorded reality TV? We've seen it, you know, Survivor was pre recorded, and then Big Brother is now pre recorded. We've just seen I'm a Celebrity pre recorded, and you know, the cost is really down. Do you think we're heading into a space where nearly all reality television is going to be pre recorded?
I love Survivor. I think Survivor is probably my favorite format, and it's because it's an extraordinarily honest format. It's your job to be conniving and win, and everyone does that. Of course, everyone on every show is conniving to win. It's just people pretend they're not. You know, I'm not really here to win. I'm just here to have a good time. No, you're not, because you've worked too hard to get onto that show. If you didn't spend four months trying to get onto a show that you're not
bothered about winning, So just be honest about it. Just be honest on Survivor, it's your job to connive and.
Throw people under the bus blindside.
Yes, so I really like that. I love Big Brother Live. I really like it live because I think it's a more exciting show when it's live, and I like that audiences can influence the show enormously, and I think we're all in it together. You know, you see it in the papers and you know. And also I do one of the funny things about Big Brother though it's my I hate starting a sentence with this is interesting or this is funny, because whenever anyone does it with me,
I always say, I'll be the judge of that. Thanks. But David Brown was the publicist on Big Brother, I love dB, and he would come with the pilot press and he'd say, this is interesting. There's an article here that says, you know, we have a jail being built in the middle of the house, and you go, that's
a good idea, should we build one? And one year we did actually build a naughty room, like a glass room in the middle of the house that people went into when they were naughty, because we'd read it in the paper, which I's a really good idea. So, yeah, ideas come from everywhere, and sometimes they come from the Daily Mail or the Mirror or the Sun or the Age or yeah, so thank you journalists. Yeah. I stopped doing it because I actually thought I have no ideas left.
And the final idea that I had that I still think it was a good idea, which we never did, was to put an intruder in the house with a treasure hunt and you'd put them inside a box, bury them in the garden with you know, full scuba suit and whatever, and you would give the housemates clues and they would have to find the housemate. And you know, my boss was saying, but what if they don't find them, you know, if they die in the garden. Now, of course we'd give them like loads of We're not going
to give them ten minutes of oxygen, are we. But that was that was the day when I thought, if I'm thinking of ideas like this, I should probably stop doing this show.
If I'm thinking of ideas that are going to kill the housemates, then maybe it's time to do Dancing with the Stars or something else.
Maybe it's time to go and do a cooking show.
Now, I'm scared about you doing cooking because you'll end up burning them on series.
Eight, Take the Knives Away.
There's a lot of interest these days as well in finding out the secrets behind these shows being made. I don't know if you're aware of it, but you know now that they're being pre made. How to producers protect these stories that are happening with inside the show? And can they do that? Because we've seen leaks from I'm a celebrity, We've seen leaks from Big Brother. People are
trying to get photos of it. As a producer, how would you try and stop that information getting out to the public before the show goes live?
Uh, you do your best. Sometimes leaks are brilliant for you because they give you rating spikes, and sometimes you know. I did one Celebrity Apprentice and the one of the camera men had posted something that obviously got the day wrong and said that isn't it wonderful Dicko wins Celebrity Apprentice last night? And we went no, the final was
actually going out tonight. So and it was front page of all the papers, and it was someone with someone at the network, and I was saying to them, it's human error, and that's fine because people make mistakes all the time, and actually it's probably going to do us a world of good. So I ask my team to act honorably, and I said, we're all in this together.
We all want the show to work. On Celebrity Apprentice, I would say to the stars, if you do interesting stuff off screen, you're disrespecting our viewers and you're kind of killing the ratings. And actually you want this to rate because you're on it, and when you aren't upfront, people know that you're lying. I mean, people would sound big brother. Of course, I love Benjamin. You think we have cameras on you all the time. We know you don't know that you sit in the corner with Fred.
Benjamin's a nightmare. And you know, if we're in the outside world, I would, you know, dob him into the authorities and I'm arrested. But you know, people will say no, no, no, I really like them, So it's really hard. The hard one was, you know, things like farm want's wife. That's hard.
So we would put all the wives in the hotel in Bahrain, and we would put the farmers in a hotel in Paris practically, and they would still manage to, you know, and we take their phones away and we wouldn't let you know, and we'd say to the local cab company, don't pick them up, you know, if they want to, you know, just don't. Producers would be in both hotels and you know, they'd still try and meet up.
You.
People are like it was like the says you, how is it possible that you can find each other? So yes, if you ever want anyone to be found a missing person, ask someone on a reality TV show, because they'll find them for you. Don't you worry. It's something that is just the hazard of the job, and you do your best and you hope that people will act honorably, and most of the time they do.
It's interesting. They're doing a new Big Brother, which finished filming on the twenty first of December, and I know everyone that's in the show, and I know the order that they get eliminated in and all this information. And I don't ask for it, but it just comes to me and people will send it to me on Instagram. The housemates when they get evicted are disgruntled, so they've
contacted me. And my partner says to me, is like, how do you know all of this stuff, and I'm like, I'm like a vortex, Like I basically never asked the question. I never add anyone. It all just comes to me. So it's so weird.
There are so many people working on shows that if you do a spoiler, it's just a little bit unkind to everyone working on the show. And I don't like gossip. I don't gossip in life. It's you know, when I was very young, my mother said to me, remember these two things. One never run after a man. Okay, that's fine, And as she said, And also, if someone wants everyone to know their business, it's their business to tell them,
not yours. Never repeat anything anyone's ever told you. And in reality TV people are Alex would call me the Vault. They just make fun of me because they say, no point in asking hers. She won't tell you, And I think, no, I won't. And I think in life and at work, be the person everyone can trust, because if you are, isn't that a beautiful place to be in your life? You know, you have to have your moral code and you have to keep it. We don't have to, but
it's beautiful if you do. And if you don't have for moral code, who are you and what do you have in life? Because I don't know that you have anything.
Really. I think that is just amazing and so accurate for people out there. You know, it's a really good message to the people that are working on these shows, to the cast that go on them, and that is to protect their brand. You know. I made the mistake last year of being told the cast of Big Brother, and I released two of them early to the media, and then I had the whole cast, and I had media offering me money to release more of them, and then I made this conscious decision at that time to
not do it. And the reason why I chose not to do it was because I thought, you know, people were telling me that this piece of information is really vital. You know, you could use this information to get somewhere and all this sort of stuff. But at the end of the day i'd been on Big Brother. No one ruined it for me, so I didn't want to ruin it for someone else, so I just stopped doing it.
It's not your nature. When I ran Big Brother in the UK, I was offered I can't remember it was a huge amount of money by one of the tabloids to release the housemates, and it was a large amount of money. It would have paid off my mortgage. And I thought, I'm just not that person. I am not
that human. And as a guy in the UK TV host called Chris Evans and he did something mean to me, and he told one of my friends that it was because I'd collaborated on a book about him, and I said, please go back to him and say, hey, it's not my nature. And b if I was going to collaborate and talk about him, I would call him and tell him that I was doing it so he would notice me. I would do it behind his back. I'm very much.
You know, if you're going to be stabbed by me, absolutely go, I'm going to come over tomorrow at three o'clock and stab you. You're right with that, yeah, brilliant, you know, and I think you kind of you're either that person or you're not. And if you are going to be in this industry, you cannot be that person because no one will ever trust you. And even in life, just don't be that person. You know, have a moral code and you know, stick to it as much as
you can. And I'm not saying that, you know, I get everything right. I would say, ninety nine percent of the things I do are completely and utterly wrong, but I try for the other one percent to do my best to you know, be kind and ethical, and I get it right very rarely, but I do think about.
It before I let you go. Maz. My last question is what is your funniest go to story that you say over dinner conversation when you look back at all the reality shows that you've been on. You've told us some amazing stories today, but what the go to story for dinner conversation being that you've worked on all these shows.
I don't know. I tell you the most one of my favorite moments is it's not funny particularly, but it's just really interesting because you know, I'm fascinated by people, and I think when we first met, you were going to be an intruder on Big Brothers. Now, intruders do a really serious job. We call them grenades. You know, a good intruder is like a housemate times ten, because you're going into a family that's already established and you're the child that no one really wants to be there,
and that's really difficult. You've got to be really strong. And we were auditioning people for the part of an intruder. And this guy came in and sometimes, you know, we talked about this earlier. People will tell you whatever they think that you want to hear, so they won't really be honest. They'll just tell you stuff that they think you want to hear, and it never really works because
I don't know. And I said to this guy, I don't know if you're telling me stuff that I want to hear, because he was saying, you know, I sleep in my car. I pretend that I'm a millionaire and that I'm drunk and I can't drive home to my beachfront penthouse, so I get a lot of action and I just sleep with you know, chicks in the car.
Because I was saying to how did you get action if you're living in a car, And he was this beautiful guy, really interesting, well educated, but it's just very hard times lived in a car in a nightclub park, car park. And I said to him, I'm borderline with you. I really like you, but I feel like you're feeding me lines that you think I want. And he said, you know, well, it's easy for you to sit there
and ask the questions, isn't it. That said, Okay, ask me one question, one question that really gets to the heart of me. You have one question to ask me. He waited about this long, and he said, if someone hurts someone in your family really badly and you could kill them and get away with it, would you do it? Oh? My god, whate interesting fascinating question. What an interesting human you are fascinating. He didn't have that question in his back pocket. It just came out. We put him into
the house. He was straight back again, asould imagine, but that was probably my favorite, one of my favorite moments. And as he walked out the door, he turned around and he said, what's the answer?
You go?
Man? That is so interesting, isn't it so interesting?
Well? That is amazing. I just want to say thank you so much for your time, and it's just been such an insight. I can't wait to see which shows you work on next. You are brilliant. You're a brilliant mind, You're an empathetic person, and I can't thank you enough for being able to sit here and ramble on with me for the afternoon.
Absolute pleasure. It's an absolute honor to be on your show.
You know.
I think you're very clever and a beautiful human, so thank you so much for having me on.
Thanks, Thanks Mez