It's in the news today, but it was actually on TV Reload the podcast last week. They might welcome back to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris and on this podcast I go behind the scenes with the biggest players in television. Each episode you will get a front row seat with content makers like executive producers, writers, editors and casting agents, plus the talent that we see on our screens.
TV Reload reloads the shows that you are currently watching and gives you a better insight at our television industry and streaming services. Today on the podcast, I have one of this week's eliminated Mastershef Australia contestants. This extremely popular cook is Harry. I'm so excited to share this chat with you today as Harry played with a lot of heart and were as an audience, got to really know
this gorgeous human. Harry was a fantastic addition to the Master Chef Fans Versus Favorites competition and she was a lot of viewers favorite fan to win. We will talk about her emotional journey, the pressure to be the last person standing, and why Master Chef is still one of Australia's most popular reality shows. However, let's get started with today's chat. I'd like to welcome Harry to TV reload.
Who from this is Master Chef would be the first to go on only fans.
Master Cheff has produced some of the biggest names in food.
Your expectation of yourself gets higher and higher and higher.
The first time ever it's funds versus favorites.
Probably the most generous out of all of the cooks that were in while I was there.
I think a mistake you made today was choosing the blounder.
End of the day, like it is TV.
That means, Harry, I'm sorry.
Being chef is a very specific role for a very specific kind of person.
Hi, Harry, how are you. I'm good, Kelly, I'm good. I'm good.
You know, last night you opened the show with this pep talk on confidence, and it made me want to ask you that question today.
You know, where do you get your confidence from?
A lot of hard work? A lot of hard work. It's taking me many, many, many years to accept myself. I guess, which I think a lot of us struggle with. And I think confidence is acceptance. So yeah, I think once you just go like, okay, well this is what I got, and this is what I got a roll with. Then the confidence kind of just comes from there because there's no point in second guessing yourself anymore.
No, I mean, you shared your story around I think it was like episode five where you talked about your decision to change your name. It actually allowed us as an audience to connect with you in a way that I think was quite strong. You know, was it hard for you to open up and share that story on national television massively?
It was really hard. It had only happened in like mid twenty nineteen, I think early mid twenty nineteen, so it's kind of fresh. So it was no lie when I said that if I hadn't have done it, there's no way I would have ever gotten on the show or gone on the show in the first place. So everything kind of changed really quickly once I made that decision, and it was a big scary thing to share with everybody because you don't know how people are going to
take it. I remember telling people, even my closest friends and colleagues and family members, and being terrified that they would think that I was doing it for a superficial reason or just because I wanted to be cool, or something like that. But everyone's response to it has been amazing, and everyone's been super understanding of why I did what I did and what that has meant for me in my life, which is really not growing up. I had a really rough time at school. I was bullied pretty heavily.
I was filled with self doubt, insecurities, body image issues, and it made me completely retreat as a person and it was just so not who I ever wanted to be. So a couple of years ago, I decided to do something really significant. I changed my name from Caitlin to Harry, and once I became Harry, all of my self doubt disappeared, and it's given me a lot of strength and a lot of power to kind of back myself and understand that I'm worthy of doing things like applying for Master Chef.
Is it strange that people may have gone to school with you or I had a relationship with that other name, and then they're now seeing you on Master Chef? Were people having to do like a double take and be like, is that.
Do I go to school with that person? Yeah? I've had a few people. Funnily enough, like I don't have a lot of contact with the people that I went to school with. I have kind of like my my two really close friends from high school, but that's about it. Like most of my friends in my life now I met as I moved into my adulthood. So yeah, I had a few funny messages being like hold on a minute, like aren't you that girl who was in my class? Or like did this dance thing with me when I
was younger? And I was like yeah, So I think it was really weird for all of them to be like seeing me in such a different context, and probably also seeing me be unapologetically myself rather than being like loud, but also very like sheepish about myself. So yeah, that's been a bit weird.
Like cool, It's interesting while we talk about this, and you know, we're talking about school, but do you think there's enough happening in schools these days to prevent bullying amongst young people.
I think it's definitely a lot better than what it was when I was in school. I think there's many more things in place these days to protect the young ones out there. You know, there's a whole different realm these days, with cyber bullying and things moving into an online platform. It's so much harder to protect kids these days. But at the same time, I guess we just have to make sure that we're putting positive messages out there.
And that was a really beautiful thing that I got to share with everyone, to show that it isn't just like you know, it isn't just happening to them. It happens so everyone. And while people might look at me and be like, oh, she's so confident and she's so comfortable with putting herself out there, that was after years of being told that doing that was attention seeking and terrible and I was only for clout and I only wanted to do things to be seen, when really I
was just trying to be myself. So it's a hard conversation to have with young people because they just want to be like, you don't get it, you don't get it. And I remember being like that too, like it's different for me and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, it's something that I'm continually trying to work out how's the best way to approach and encourage young people to really believe that it will get it.
It's just so beautiful to hear you talking about this, because there is a cut through when you open up and can be brutally honest about your own truth. It can help other people not feel alone. I guess that's probably one of the reasons why I've enjoyed you so much on the show is that I feel like you, as well as being a good cook, you've been a lovely person to follow throughout the process of the show so far.
Thank you. That really means a lot, I think, Yeah, that was something that I definitely wanted to walk into the competition with, Like, obviously it is about cooking, but at the end of the day, you are also on a platform with many, many people watching you, and the biggest thing I wanted to hold to throughout that whole experience was authenticity and making sure that I felt as though I was sharing everything that I wanted to share with people, to make sure that they weren't just seeing
the TV version of me, that we were actually getting to like understand why I was there and why I was putting my stuff out there, and why I amn't so loud and why is she so confident in all this kind of stuff. There's meaning behind everyone's story.
It's strange as well. Being a sort of an introverted extrovert or an extroverted introvert. I don't know how you can want to describe that, but you know, for me, I come across as being this really confident person. And
my mum had someone ask her just recently. They were like, you know, Ben's really confident and she was like, no, he's not, actually, And so what a disconnect to have where other people have an interpretation of who we are and how we are, and then to be the opposite underneath, you know, all of that could be quite confusing.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. I'm definitely an extraverted introvert. I get all my energy from being on my own and having lots of quiet time. I was lucky enough to get my own room for a little bit while I was on the show, and it was like the quiet room. It was always like a candle and some tea, and everyone would come there to just have a nice like chill chat and like not talk about all the hectic stuff in the competition.
So I definitely need that to then go out and like be social and happy and everything with other people. It's interesting and I think you can see it. There's like some days on the show where I'm just like I just do this today, like I just have nothing to give. And a similar thing with my mum. Everyone like she's so confident. Look at her goat and Mom's like, yeah, she's so happy to just stay home with chat. So you get the good side.
Funny, we don't often give ourselves what we need, you know. We kind of sometimes recognize things in ourselves that are good for us, then we don't do them. You know, it's important, And that's one thing I've learned from watching you and hearing you talk, is it's important to trust ourselves and give us what we need and have that be some downtime so that you can be that person when the time is requiring you to be you can do it.
Yeah, definitely, I think it's so important and I'm still learning, Like I'm still terrible at it. Since I've had time off the show, I like still haven't got a proper sleep pattern and still haven't gone back to doing yoga and parties and all the things that make me feel really really good and help me to then go forward and be like lovely and bubbly and social and all
those kind of things. And it is like it's like training it's like training for anything, you know, It's like being a sports person, Like you have to stay with it. And when you stay with it and you know how good that makes you feel, it makes it easier. But then as soon as you slip out, it's like, oh my god, like now I'm back at square one. I'm just like so spent and so tired all the time. So yeah, it is super super important, and I think
finding what makes you feel rejuvenated as well. It can be stuff that you don't necessarily think, like again being like an introverted person but having to do all this social stuff. I saw my old friends recently and I was like, oh, it was going to be way too much, and we were so tired. I'm not energy for them.
But the minute I walked to the door, I had that click realization that like, oh, I'm back with my people, and that actually fills my cup and makes me feel really good and energizes me and doesn't drain me in the same way as maybe doing social things around the competition or around my work kind of does. So it's just about finding that balance of what's right and often, yeah, it.
Comes out of a life I honestly don't know why, but I felt like you would have been the one fan left standing at the end. I even had a bet with someone a a friend of mine during filming. Did you feel like there was a certain you? I mean, you did kick off the show winning the pin, and you know, you cook some very amazing things very early on. Did you feel like there was producers may have thought, or or you know, the host might have put that sort of pressure on it.
Did you feel like there was a buzz about you?
Totally? And it was really strange. It was so so strange because I'm not used to that at all, like very normal in my normal life. So to be in a situation where it was like she's the one, She's going to take it out for the fans, it was
like another level of pressure. And getting that immunity pin in the first cook was awesome, like so cool, so sick, but like so different to what everybody else was experiencing, which really kind of was a little bit isolating in those first couple of weeks because all the fans were there going like I'm not good enough, I shouldn't be here, and I had the same feelings, but because I had that pin on me, it was like this marker of well,
you can't feel that way. You can't feel like you're an impostor because you've already been told that you're not.
So it was really weird to be this kind of like middle person between like, Okay, we've got all the faves that have come back with all of this knowledge, all the fans who are like the novices, and then me and like I didn't know where I fit in the pack, and ultimately changing my name and the story of this dish has meant backing myself and that's what I feel like I need to do right now.
Why not touches everybody?
So once that pin was gone, I was very, very vulnerable in terms of the competition, but also it felt nice to be back in with everybody else and like I wasn't an outlier. So yeah, it was it was a weird experience. I thought I'd be like yeah, but actually I was like shit.
I think it's strange though, because you know, in times of my life, and I think in times in all of us, you know, when we tell ourselves we shouldn't feel a certain way, that's a real problem. Like that's the root of the issue, and it's it's hard to allow you to feel a certain way even though you feel like you shouldn't, if that makes any sense.
Definitely, I felt like I had to already know that I was going to be really good, and it was really strange because there was people in there, like people like Matt and Ali from the Fans toom like their cooking is exceptional, Like if you looked at it strictly from that point of view, like they the two of
them should have won it. The incredible cooks. Matt is phenomenal and his attention to detail is second to none, and so it was so confusing when I was cooking like these dodgy meals that were like almost getting me kicked out, and he was just cruising through and everyone's like, but you're gonna win, and I was like, you're looking at the wrong person. Like it was just crazy, and like at the end of the day, like it is TV and we are judged on our food ultimately, which
is great. But I think just being a kind of like colorful, loud person also helped me to engage with people, and that was really cool because that's like really reaffirming for me as a person, to like, why I am so open is because people connect with it and it makes me feel really good, which makes them feel really good. Yeah, nice SymbOS.
Do you think that the competition is getting harder each week? I mean, you know, this show goes on for so long. Is the level of how hard it is to compete getting harder or is it just a matter of sort of luck, chance and circumstance getting through that the week's challenges.
I think there is a lot of chance and luck that goes into it. You know, if you're a dessert person and you get a whole bunch of dessert cooks your sailing, but then get a saber and get kicked out, like it's so quick. But I think the hardest thing that happens the further you go on is your expectation of yourself gets higher and higher and higher, but your energy levels get lower and lower and lower, and the
group that you're in against gets smaller. So everything just compiles every single week, and it's really hard to once you're gone, or once somebody else has gone to then connect with them on the experience that you've had. It's kind of like wherever you land, whoever keeps going, you don't know what they're going through, but all you know is that it's so much harder than what you experienced, and what you experienced was like the hardest thing ever.
So yeah, I have so so so much respect and admiration for people that are still in there and for the ones that will make it through to the finale, because yeah, it's like it's like, keep running up the hill, but we're going to like take your shoes off, and then you're going to like lise leg and then it's going to like get steeper and then something else is going to happen, but you still got to get to the top.
So hard, so hard.
And then you've got Marco Pierre White, you know, who has this really scary approach. I mean I found it scary to watch on television, and so I want to know, is he really like that in real life? Is there any time where he's sort of showing a little bit more of a nicer disposition or is he just always terrifying?
He's Ferm, He's Ferm, but he's actually an angel, Like he was so so sweet, and the stuff that the viewers don't get to see is like the fifteen minute conversation I had with him in the Wine room when going in for that tasting and the acknowledgment he gave me for that cook and what that meant to me, and just a really really beautiful conversation about food and talking about food and talking about food and people and anthropology and how to become a chef and why do
you want to become a chef? We get to have those little moments, and he was probably the most generous out of all of the cooks that were in while I was there in terms of his time and his energy with each and every single one of us. And then at the end of the day he would come over and like give you that look like you were doing the wrong thing, And that was crickling with how
hard it was to take those looks. But ultimately, you know, I could walk away from it being like, oh my god, I just got kicked off the show by one of the best chefs in the world. How embarrassing. But actually it's for me, it's more like, Wow, he's the person who was like sent me off into the culinary world, and he backs me. Even if I had the worst cook that day, he backs me, and like that's you can't ask for anything better than that?
Is there a commonality amongst the type of people who make chefs. You know, quite often, you know, you hear people talk about, oh, you know, I dated a chef, and they sort of bunch people together in this way. But from your perspective, is there a commonality amongst the type of people who make good chefs.
I think there's definitely a commonality between everyone within food in whatever aspect that is. I think with chef it does take a really specific kind of person. It is a hard, hard job and it's something that you have to live and breathe like it is every day all day. I have a brother who's a chef, and he adores his work, but he works six days a week. He works massive hours. You know. Having dinner with him means having dinner at midnight in the middle of the city
on a stool in Chinatown, which is great. I love that, but that's the time that I get to spend with him because he is so dedicated to what he does. So I guess it's like anything. It's like becoming a doctor or being an artist, or doing whatever it is that you do for work. But to be a chef, it's a craft on the next level, and you really really do have to live it. I think that's why so many people come off the show and don't just
go into kitchens. And I think there's like a bit of judgment around that, you know, like, if you really wanted to be in the food world, you'd become a chef. And it's not that it's being chef is a very specific role for a very specific kind of person, and everyone in food ultimately just wants to eat really tasty stuff and share really tasty stuff with everyone, and that doesn't mean being in a kitchen all time.
The items that Marco had selected, you know, were your sort of basic staples.
I mean, they're in my pantry. I don't know if they're in your pantry.
I was shocked at how many things that were there which I'm a staple in my home. Did that familiarity help with the pressure test or did that sort of hinder that final cook for you?
I definitely have all of those things in my pantry, hands down. I think my problem with that challenge was I did a weird thing where I was like, I'm going to cook a Marco Pierre White dish for Marco Pierre White rather than cooking a Harry dish for Marco Pierre White. So I looked at all of those ingredients and was like, what would he do with them? Or what would you know a French trained chef do with something like this, rather than being like what can I do?
Because that would have been totally different, completely different. So yeah, it was just a bit of a like brain melt of the day. I think I just say was, oh, yeah, okay, Marco Pierreson to cook a flounder.
You floundered yourself.
Exactly, I flounder myself, which is a great, great pun to be leaving with. I'm glad it's that and not like, oh, she burned a cabbage, but then she went out actually burning something.
Kind of off the back of what you just said, you know, would you have still stuck with fish and done a Harry version of that or do you think that you could have stuck with you know, the epic vegetarian dish.
I think if I was a strategist, I definitely would have played another veggie dish. I had a couple up my sleeve, and I was just so determined that day to show that I had a flexibility within my cooking. Sorry, And that's like a really funny thing because it kind of just goes back on that whole like believe in yourself and accept who you are, and I did the opposite. I tried to like show that I was multifaceted, and
I had all these things to prove. I guess to the judges and to the audience and to my fellow competitors that I could which is ridiculous because all I had to do was cook something on me that I cook and I know that I can do that. I know that I can cook a fish. I know that
I can break down a protein. So yeah, it was a really funny, funny thing to do and a funny thing to go out on this like proving of self that I was able to achieve that, and surely enough it bit me in the bum because I didn't have to.
What other things could you have cooked with those anchoviies? I have to be you know, full disclosure, I'm obsessed with anchovies. I always have them in my fridge and they're polarizing food, I would say to people, but I'm pretty much only ask you is because I'm hungry for anchovies right now? What else could you have done with those anchovy? So?
What else? Were you thinking in your mind you could have done.
I love anchovies too. I love anchovies so much. I've been playing around with this, like if you ever had sag panier before, which is like an Indian curry using pine, which is like an Indian cheese, kind of similar to hallumi. But I had this idea to like turn the whole dish into like dump leaves, but instead of using dumpling skins, using like cabbage or spinach leaves and then feeling filling
them with like a pinier mix with spices. And then I was like, oh, you put anchovies and that too, They'd be like salty in me, and then pour the panier sauce, so the sag sauce over the top. That was what I should have done, because they would have been like these little yummy like curry dumplings basically filled with cheese and anchovies and other yummy herbs and spices. So that's what I would have done.
I've got to go and make them now, so I'm starving, so follow that recipe. I could not do what you just explained. Could not do that at all. The commentary online last night, I kept picking up on people noticing that Jock and Andy interactions with Marco Pierre White were a little frosty at times. Did you notice that between the boys and Marco Pierre White while the filming was happening.
Not really, And to be anything, they're probably just as nervous as we are. Like I think Marco and train Jock imagine having your like mental cooking in the kitchen where you've got to be the host, Like you would feel so weird. You'd be like, oh, yes, I'm the bust them, which would be so strange. And same thing for Andy. But I think they were just as flustered as we were.
Yeah, you could see that.
I mean, I think sometimes nerves are a sign of respect for people, you know, So I don't think they're always a bad thing to have, because you know, if you didn't have that and then you didn't, then you might not care, you know exactly. Yeah, Yeah, why do you think And it's interesting to ask you this question as Master Chef's rating, you know, it's the highest rating reality show at the moment, why do you think Master Chef astrayed still resonates with its audience.
I think it's that there's like a term for it at the moment. Isn't there about shows that are positivity based rather than drama based? And I think that's what it is. It's like, yeah, it's great to watch a show where there's like all of this drama happening and people are getting really tense and all that kind of stuff, but you see what happens after that for the contestants, and it's horrible, Like it ruins people's lives. It doesn't
make people's lives. And I think the thing that resonates with people about Master Chef is everybody loves to eat,
so that's done. And then as a reality TV standpoint, people move forward from Master Chef and do really good things and stay within their communities and build bigger communities and share positivity and all of that kind of lovely stuff, which I think in the current scheme of things is really really lovely for people, and something that people really hold on to is like, okay, cool, there are some like nice things happening and nice people moving into the
public sphere that are spreading positive energy rather than just being like, oh, I was the villain, Like, we don't need any more villains right now. I think we've done on the villains for a little bit.
Yeah, less people from Master Chef seem to be going on only fans, so.
Well, you never know, like not judgment. That's a good questions like who from this is Master Chef would be the first to go on only fans? Push that to somebody else next time. I'm not answering.
I don't want to answer that either. I reckon, it's a really difficult.
Now.
I like where you're going. I like we're going.
If anyone else I interview Phil free to tell me whether or not they want to go on only fans, that's a different story. I won't be imposing it on them. Something that I ask everyone. Actually, no, before I ask you this, who do you who do you think is going to win? Like not what you know now, but like as you left the competition at this point, who did you think was going to take it out?
One faith in one fan? I think if a faith was going to win. Mindy Woods, she's just phenomenal, and her knowledge of indigenous ingredients and how to use them and our country and our land and everything is just outstanding. And I really really hope that that I really hope that her being back on the show helps to recreate
her platform and get that further out. Her videos that she's doing at the moment on Instagram and stuff about Naani Marien's are incredible and the way that she cooks with them, no one else in that competition could do it. So I really think that she's in for a chance. And also if I had to choose a fan, I wou'd actually choose Kama. Camera just has like so much experience in the kitchen and she's really into it. I
think that's the best thing about that. She's really really into the competition, but she's really into her cooking and she really goes back, takes on all of the advice that the judges have been giving her a changes her not how she cooks, but the way she's going about her cooking to ultimately make it better. And I think that could really see her taking out the trophy.
There's something very endearing about her as well. I mean there's a bit of a humble attitude or just as a view of the excitement that we get to enjoy through her. I think has a lot of people rooting for her as well.
Yeah, she's a dream. You've never met somebody who wants to hug so much. Everyone so much. She's just like constantly like loves everyone so much. It's great.
So everyone who joins the podcast, I get to ask them this question of what is something from behind the scenes that we're as an audience didn't see and probably won't see, but something that's like a behind the scene secret on Mastership.
I suppose there's a good one from this season. Like everyone knows that we got put into lockdown for a little bit because people got COVID and what we did was I was lucky enough to not get it, and I was like, oh, Mada, this was great. So I did a little pop up wine bar for a couple of contestants, So I like made up a bunch of food when it, bought some models of wine and then delivered it to their doors. And then we jumped on zoom and had like a little wine buyer experience and stuff.
But then they started judging me like the judges do in a positive way, but I wasn't expecting it, and then I sent them the bill.
Up to that because well, Harry, it's just been so lovely to chat with you today and thank you for being on TV Reload. You're fantastic to watch. Well, I'm sure with the rest of Australia. You know, I'll get to follow you on Instagram and see where you are next, all set up a Google alert with your name.
Thank you. Yeah, I don't like to take you along for the ride.