It's in the news today, but it was actually on TV Reload the podcast plant to deep theirline. Welcome back to TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris and this is your podcast to get all the inside goss on the popular TV shows you may be watching from around the world. Undeniably, our TV sets are a major part of our home entertainment and very little is known about
how our favorite shows get made. Each episode, I find guests that want to dive just that little bit deeper into the shows they're currently making, so that you can hear all their exclusive stories and gain access to the biggest names in Australian television. I want to thank you for downloading or subscribing to this podcast. I love hearing your feedback, so make sure you leave a comment on
your chosen podcast platform. On today's episode, I have a full debrief with the most talked about player ever seen on Australian Survivor. It is King George from Heroes Versus Villains. We were first introduced to George on Brains Versus Braun only two years ago, but nothing could have prepared us for what we got this season. More confident, more strategy, more awkward, conversations this time on the beach, and one
epic tribal council that really broke the internet. George really polarized his audience, but he also made this season what it was. And I know Liz has won, but I think George is the real winner from this season and I'm really excited to talk to him today. We will talk about George's ability to read people and how he managed to manipulate and control his fellow players. George will discuss his pregame preparation and if he and Haley did
get together to plan out their season. I'll also ask about the impact George's game had on the other players and where his friendship with Simon, Shannie and Liz, amongst others, has landed. I will also unpack that epic tribal council and find out if George thinks he went too far and if he felt that he was antagonizing Simon. Plus, we'll get some exclusives on the whole series, including some
behind the scenes secrets which I'm sure you're going to love. However, let's bring George into the podcast and celebrate his exciting time on Australian Survivor, which you can now catch up on on tenplay. Hey George, congratulations on the most epic season I have ever seen for any contestant in any reality TV show ever.
Thank you, It's all true, and thank you for having me on your show.
This season of Heroes Versus Villains. You really came to play, didn't you.
Well. I walked in with the motto of glory or death and that was my strategy as well. I wanted this to be the best season of Austraian Survive and it was mission accomplished. It's been by far the best Australian season ever. It's been so widely acclaimed around the world. It broke the Internet in the USA, and we've shown that the Australian domestic TV industry is in a very strong state. And the fact that I've played a huge role in that. I feel a great deal of personal delight in that I have.
Been looking forward to having this conversation with you for quite a few days now because I knew it was coming. And I think a lot of people who have been watching the show want to know is who we see on television? Is that your authentic self? Or is King George something that has been cooked up? For reality television.
I'm exactly the same in every kind of situation and I think that's what worked for me. And a lot of people try and go on TV shows and they think it's going to earn them money in different aspects
and whatnot, and that wasn't the case for me. When I played the first time, I was a Survivor fan that went through the audition process that's open right now for the next season of Survivor that'll be on Channel ten, and I told myself I'm going to play a phenomenal Survivor game and by doing that, it changed my life.
And I think part of the reason why I have such a huge appeal in mainstream Australia, particularly where I'm from in Western Sydney, is because when people sitting down at home in their living rooms and they watch me, I'm a kind of like a normal person. I'm the kind of person they see at the pub, at the local soccer ground, at the local coffee shop. And that's what worked for me. That's my secret, and I think that's why this season of austraiand Survivor has been so
good as well. We've had a very strong cast, very good decisions made in terms of going back to a more basic Survivor game, less twist, small organic gameplay, and it all results in the best season of Survivor ever.
Have you passed on some of your knowledge that reality TV really works when people are just being themselves.
I think there's a great production team. I'm not just saying that. In particular the new ep David Foster, who's a huge Survivor fan, really kind of like left his mark on this season and it went back to kind of classic Survivor challenges, still with a big kind of exciting physical aspect that we have on austrained Survivor but not on American Survivor for instance. The show's in great hands.
It's been phenomenal in terms of like the way they were able to convey the story on the episodes themselves and just sitting back and watching it at home myself or when I was watching it with friends or family. Every episode was such a delight, and I'm just so
proud to have played just a role as just a contestant. Yes, I generate the content, but all the production values and the storytelling have just been exemplary for heroes v villains, and I think Survivor's got a very bright future on Channel ten and in the Australian reality TV space.
Do you think we'll get another season of it this year?
Well, we are getting another season. They're looking for contestants now, Ben, So if you're interested, go on the ten play casting website and give it a go. Maybe you can be our first Big Brother contestant that wins Big Brother and wins Survivor.
I don't think they want me, but I would definitely. And you know, it's really funny that you mentioned that show because people write to me all the time saying George reminds me of you in Big Brother, and I get these comparisons from people on the internet all the time. I mean, I would be honored, But how does that land with you?
Well, we're both very good looking men, Ben, and can you blame them? And they're only human? But there's one big difference. You actually won quite a significant sum of money and I only won sixty thousand dollars.
It's still cash in the bank, right.
Yes, it's yours, and I'm very grateful.
I want to know a little bit more about you. I'm sure that you've been talking about Survivor all day but when I was thinking about talking to you, I was thinking, I want to know a little bit more about the day to day George. What is your life really like?
Like?
What is what are you doing? And what has your life been like between the last time here on Survivor and now.
Well after the last time I was on Survivor when that finished airing in September twenty one, I went back to my day job as a public servant, but I was so bored I quit it in December twenty one, and I knew I was going to play in Samoa, so I put basically all of my time and energy into improving my body. More importantly than that, just kind of like living my best life. So what I'm grateful for is playing Survivor the first time changed my life
in more ways than anyone could ever imagine. And now that I've finished this glorious season a second time, I've got the world at my feet and I can't wait to see what happens next.
I just dream of these, you know, George in the real world moments, like you know, you're ordering Hungry Jags or KFC and just being you know, typically George really amuses me.
Well, I think what is interesting is a lot of people like me in Southwest Sydney or Western Sydney, and it's a very kind of like normal experience. And you know why some other TV shows fail is because the only thing that you see people from NUSA and Bondai and they're all the same and Australia is a very
different place. And what you saw on this season of Australian Survivor in terms of its impeccable casting, is you had all kinds of different people from all walks of life and all different kinds of ethnic backgrounds come together and play out the game of Survivor and it made a phenomenal TV product. That's what I want to see as a viewer myself, not just you know, not when I watch other TV shows. And I think that's why
this season of Survivor was just so widely acclaimed. People can identify with me if they're from Southwestern Sydney and I'm one of us, and that's what you know, one of them, and it's kind of like what worked for me and what worked for Survivor in particular.
I did hear that. I mean I haven't clarified this statistic, but someone said to me that the numbers for Survivor this year were up considerably in Sydney. They were saying that's all because of you.
Well, you know, thank you. I would if I can take claim for that. That's fantastic. But I walk down the streets of banks down all the time and they're the kind of people that are watching Survivor that you wouldn't expect. They people that aren't, you know, the usual under forty demographic, and it's good to see. And I want these kind of people to be engaged with reality TV.
And if they're watching Channel ten and they're watching Survivor, I hope they stay on board because there's there's lots of other good things to watch on Channel ten.
Well, there's so many good stories to tell, and I think that Survivor has a very good platform to do that. So I actually think that the numbers are going to be quite considerably high for the people applying for this next season. And I think that does have a lot to do with you. But I want to move into asking you a little bit about the psychology of George.
You know, I want to know more about how you're able to read people, because watching this season, yes, there's a lot of and maybe there's a little bit of magic on top of that, but your ability to be able to read what people are thinking and what they're going to do is uncanny. Where does that skill set come from?
I think for me it's just life experience. So having worked as a political staffer, you have to be really engaged in terms of issues that matter. For instance, when I was advising on shadow portfolio matters, campaigning on local matters. I've been a campaign director for elections. I think it might have even been five and you have your finger on the pulse. But for me, I'm a poker player
as well. Jackie wasn't the only poker play on the Villain Scribe, and when you cop a lot of bad beats you tend to learn how to predict human behavior and how to take the opportunities when you sense weakness. And when I combine all of you know, street smart from banks down campaign and political experience from my former professional life, and just judgment and instinctal moves that I've learned from playing pocers since I was eighteen, it all works.
What I will tell future Survivor player is the ones that probably will apply in record numbers for season nine. Whenever it happens is don't waste an opportunity. Don't think this is Instagram. We can put a filter on and pretend you have a personality, go out there, be bold, be brash, do things, and then more likely than not, will work. And if it doesn't, at least it would have been fun to watch.
It is like a superpower. You know your ability and you know what I want to ask here is what do you say about the speculation that you had a lot of help along the way from producers? And so when you hear that kind of stuff or read that online, is that offensive to hear?
I do find that highly offensive because it's like with these people with Tim Foy or hats on. Every single twist that's happened over to two seasons has really screwed me over because I'm the kind of person that maps out the game and I need stability in terms of gay mechanics for that to happen. And for instance, I survived the skin of my teeth when two of the three people working against me found an idol. They found
an idol because they were looking for one. When you're controlling the numbers, you can't spend twenty four to seven walking around the bush looking for an idol, and then I make a tactical decision to focus on politicking at the merch part of the game, to maintain my government that I built where I'm the king and the Premier and the governor all in one. But it's just like the producers and Survivor, they literally are not even there.
They don't talk to you. The only time they talk to you is when they're interviewing you, when you're alone in front of them doing a confessional, and that doesn't even happen every day.
How far away do they have to drag you to do those confessionals?
Well, in both seasons there's a George IV spot. I am loud, I don't want the plays hearing what I say, and they have to walk me at least a kilometer away from camp.
They'll take you back to Bankstown just to do some much.
Yeah, to Bankstown. They should have given me my passport.
Did you and Haley get together and tell each other that you were coming back? Because I even asked Flick this, They said, you know, do you reckon? Those two got together and started working out a few plans, and she said, probably, what's the story with that, did you and Haley get together and map out a plan together?
No, to be honest with you, so obviously there was a lot of speculation about who was and wasn't playing beforehand, But Hailee's a very close friend of mine. I mean, I brought Carra to my family visit, but like I have Haley in the same category in terms of just a general life friendship. And I do recall having a phone call with Hailey several weeks before the game where we just decided it was best to stop communicating with each other just so we wouldn't get in each other's heads.
But never in a million years would anyone have expected that Haley and myself would have both gotten to the merged part of the game, particularly having never played together. The proof is in the putting on what actually happened out there. Haley didn't want to work with me, She was trying to deceive me, and if she pulled that off, I reckon the Queen would have rained right to the very end of the game and deservingly would have had a back.
To back win, which people want to see. You know, I've heard that a few times, even chatting to Liz this morning, Liz was saying, you know, she'd love to see a winner win twice.
I'm sure Liz might be thinking about playing again herself, but good luck to them. And then it's like, I'm the kind of player when I go out there, I don't care what they've done in a previous game. I'm going to judge the cards that have been dealt to me and play the hand accordingly. You can't play a second time and think about what happened the first time unless you're trying to course correct.
It's interesting that you came back because I think your game was better this time around, from a point of view of maybe your social game is a little bit better. I think that you managed to win people on side. You know, did you have to try and work out a strategy how to change some of that behavior from brains versus brawn to this season.
My behavior was actually the same over both seasons, but this time I was just dealt with better hand. I was duds in the outback. I was dealt a cast of players, majority of whom had never seen Survivor before, and when they saw a hard game play, it was kind of being transported back to season one. In the year two, thousand, So most of them got voted off before the merge. This is in the outback I'm talking about, not in somea Some of the on the jury were
incredibly better. And the key lesson that I took from the outback that I was very conscious of was I can't have somebody poison the jury. Every time someone went there, he just poisoned them, and it killed my chances of winning the game. Not because I had a poor aspect of my game, but because someone was actively campaigning against me at the Jury villa in Concurry. Here in Smut
was a very different situation. You've got eleven of the twenty four players were returning players, all playing a second time or a third time in Sewanne's case, to try and play a better game, or to try and you know, live their dream a second time if they went earlier on people like Stevie and Jackie. So I was dealing
with a very different set of players. But what I did a real kind of like conscious effort to do, and a lot of people wonder why Jerry and Matt and Liz all were very kind of like loyal to me, if you want to frame it like that, is because I made them the best possible versions of themselves that they could be out there's first time Survivor players, and they felt equals when they were working with me. They
felt like partners. And perception is reality. And you know, if they perceived that they were equal contributors in decision making, great for me. But if other you know, jury members for instance, didn't value that and called them pawns, well that's not my problem. That's how I kind of looked at it.
I felt like you were building these people up only for them for you to know that they were going to be on that jury at the end, and that they were going to vote for you because you'd been their friend.
Well, I think everybody on the jury would have voted for me, to be honest with you, Ben, I played an incredible game. I played the best game Survivor ever. And what is important is not thinking about the end when you've got two or three weeks to go in the game. So when I'm building up capacity in Jerry, for instance, and turning him into a vicious player, that's empowering him. So I think with Jerry, and what's important
to know is he felt empowered. I listened to Jerry, I took what Jerry said on board, and what I did is I identified people's intent, their motivation, their priorities, and I conducted my campaign on the ground around those and I found a solution every time that probably benefited the other person more than it benefited me, but it was a win win, and that's what basically kept everybody aligned behind my rule.
Your rivalry with Simon was definitely the juiciest thing of the whole season. If you ask me, does Simon represent anyone on the outside that you had previously clashed with, because it just felt like that river run really deep with him.
I was targeted by Simon, and Simon spoke the way he spoke to people in the early part of the Villains Tribe, and that's on him. That's something that he had to own. But I think Simon as a person is very genuine back at home, and I think Simon just made a few bad decisions at the start of the game and then came home like a wet sail.
Part of the reason why I thought, particularly with six players left, to get rid of Simon as a priorities because I could see the jury benchers constantly smiling and cheering him on at every tribal council, and I was like, well, Simon's not someone that's going to be carried to the end with this plucky underdog story and be told you haven't done anything. He's going to get to the end
and he might actually beat me. So I am just out of sheer respect for the huge game that he played, had to vote him off quick smart.
Do you think though, that, stepping back a little bit and looking at that epic tribal council that went down, do you think that you went a little bit too far in the way in which you were definitely antagonizing him.
Well, I actually think he was antagonizing me if you watch that back then. But Simon fell into a trap and he fell hook line and sinker for and I needed to get certain things over the line at that epic tribal council, and all of it was done on very very short notice, literally a five minute walk from a surprise challenge back to the tribal count and it all happened in real time. I needed Simon to specifically
burn the bridge with Stevie, and he did that. He did that much better than I could have ever imagined. I needed Stevie to know that Jordie was about to vote him off, and Stevie was aligned doing what Stevie does and just attaches himself to a group of alpha males. He respected me and my game, as he told me a number of times, and then he realized I was the best person to work with him. And more excitingly for me was I burnt the relationship between Jordy and Simon.
And it was spectacular because from that point on I took complete control of the game. I was in a block of three people in a six person tribe where the minority three literally refused to work with each other, and I did that on the turn of a dime, and it was the best thing ever.
I think what was really interesting about that tribal council, and I've watched it a few times, by the way, George, so I definitely still stand by the fact that you both probably antagonized each other, and I still don't know whose behavior was worse than the other. But my question aside from that is there's a bit of a rule at the moment where they say that conflict on television doesn't really work and that people tune off. But after
that particular piece of conflict, the ratings went up. Do you think that Australian viewers at home should be wrapped in cotton wall or do you think that we should still be allowed to see conflict like that on television.
This isn't some cheapscape relationship show and another network ben Survivor is a very complicated political game and sometimes the drama that a game like this generates is the best thing. And tribal councils are very intense. Playing Survivor brings out a lot of emotions out of people. It's raw, it's real, it's unscripted, and that was the best ever tribal council in history. And like many people probably watched it multiple times.
It broke the internet in the USA, and I say, if that's what's working, I'd love to see more of it myself. In terms of raw reality TV. That's not just fitting you know, stereotypes, and you know you have people that unrepresentative of normal people walking on the streets in places like I live in Western Sydney. It's like, I don't want to watch that.
You know, it would have been obvious to everybody whilst you were in competition that you were the noisiest player, and you were probably gonna get the most amount of screen time. What I don't understand is why didn't more people try and take you down immediately.
Look, when you're working with people, you can kind of like identify what is kind of like in their best interests, And it was in my best interest to survive from a crudely selfish perspective, but every time you strike a deal with someone, if it's a good deal, you take it. And for two Survivor seasons in a row, me and my allies got to the end and one of my allies won, And it's like, what's the point of just making a move for the sake of making a move
and then having no control in the game. I look at what kind of like what Liz and Jerry and Matt achieved is they all made an active choice to work with me as I did with them, and we all got to the end together. People think, why didn't
they try and vote George off. It's like, toward that end of the game, I was basically picking up no votes because I run a very aggressive campaign on the ground and sometimes through just you know, counter intelligence alone, I would turn people that even thought would be voting for me against each other. It's just like Nina and Simon kept voting for each other, and they never voted
for me. That wasn't because they worried about other things, because they thought that was the best thing for them to do at.
The time, putting Lizz aside and her tactics to take you down, which was successful prior to that, do you think that anyone got close, Like who do you think was the closest person to ever taking you down before Liz took you out of the competition?
I was definitely Haley. I survived by a miracle when Nina and Sean mispaid their idols. And I always thought Sean had an eye dool I thought he found one at the Sandwich Rule Wards. So everything I was doing was factoring a suspicion that Sean had an idol. But I had no idea that Nina had an idol. And sometimes human behavior is a very interesting thing. Ben I always thought that Sean would only ever play an idol for himself and fortunately for me, mean another daughter of
anyone but me. Creator of that strategy, Queen Sandra herself also was of the mindset that she was only going to play an idol for herself because that's how anyone but me works. And I survived by the skin of my teeth. And then I also, you know, maintained control of relationships and kept doors open with people there. But I came so close to going home in that episode. I knew it afterwards. You could probably see it in my face when that second idol got played, And that's
probably the only time I got lucky. But that's also just kind of like, you know, that's just how those players were. They were you know, they were told the plan by Hailey, like the leaks information was correct, and they didn't listen to her and I survived.
It was crazy? Was it crazy? The message in a bottle that got lost at sea? And I just was like, what is wrong with these people? Can I ask you the only questions? I'm probably going to be the only person's going to ask you this today, and you complete the fifth if you want to. But I hope you come with me on this random survivor question. Do you end up having feelings for other people on the show?
I mean, you guys are living in such close proximity, and some of the people on the show are like ridiculously attractive and really lovely, and you're living in close proximity. I wonder whether or not you ever develop any romantic feelings for your opponents.
Yeah, well, I definitely don't have feelings for Simon or Sewan for the record, maybe they're just not my type.
Ben, what's your type?
Still trying to work that out. Yeah, but if anyone interested, please feel free to sliding too my DMS.
Well, anyway, I'm going to move aside of that because I'm pretty sure there's going to be some people out there saying, mind your own business, Ben, But I'm going to move back into the survivor question for you. Let's talk about Jerry and Matt, you know, and the fact that to a lot of people watching this show they seem like the weakest players. Was it really okay for them to be there right at the very end when
their resume was so was so poor? You know, like, could they ever have possibly won standing in there and pitching there, you know, doing their sales pitch? Could they ever have won considering they really both didn't do too much?
Yeah? I didn't really agree with that. I mean, if if Jerry had won, or even Matt, you'd still have worse to strange survivor winners, and like sometimes there's many ways to skin the survivor can and playing an under the radar game is a legitimate strategy. But that's why I try to obliterate those players as quickly as possible in the early part of the game, because then you have a blood bee water situation where the entire endgame is filled by seven mats rather than one. And it's
just a case of tactics. But I felt like I really enjoyed working with Jerry in particular. I loved his revenge mission suited me to a t and it was a good win win for us, and Matt made the choice to come on board with me. I gave Matt several days to make his mind up, and I knew Matt's word was good because Matt himself worked out that was the best thing for him to do. I knew Matt probably wanted to cut me at a Final three.
I'm not an idiot, but the fact that I had multiple Final three deals and I knew what people's priorities were within these different deals is part of the reason why I got to the end myself.
Well, truth often does hurt but your takedown of Matt was very accurate, and you asked him very specific questions, but that must have hurt his feelings and it kind of left him looking like, you know, a little toddler that was being told off. How has your relationship with Matt host that interaction been. Have you been able to maintain a friendship with him out of the show?
Yes, of course. I visited him on the Gold Coast quite recently. I love Mattie. I've met his wife, haven't met Little Hugo the baby yet, but it's in that same kind of category of past players where we, you know, we're in constant communication with each other, and usually the friendships, particularly the ones you form in the game, get replicated outside as well.
Did you think it was a little brutal watching it back? Like it might not have been brutal at the time, but watching it back on television, how do you think you came across.
I just don't think it was brutal. I think it was just the reality of the situation. I was very willing to vote for Matt and Liz had a phenomenal game full stop, and she had an even better performance at the final tribal council.
I love it. You went out of the competition last time and you went and got your tattoo of your idol, which we got to see throughout the How what is your souvenir this time? Have you gone back and got another tattoo?
Well, I did get the tattoo. I got that quite early. You can see it on the Survivor Instagram page. You know, it would have been nice to tattoo the crown on me, but not this time.
Would Would you get a full tattoo of a crown? Have you got it on it?
I've already got a different mark there. Ben.
How close were you to leaving the competition, you know at that point because of that injury.
I was very close. It was very touch and go, and then I did play the next forty six days. Definitely nowhere near one hundred percent, but I'm very lucky. You had great care from the Survivor medical team, who are foremost experts in the world. I know that, you know talking to them. They've done like Everest expeditions. So I got patched up, I got the CLEI to go back in noting I wasn't at one hundred percent. But
more importantly, I was given the choice. So when when I got you know, offered the chance to go back in and the state that I was, I'm the one that made that decision, and thank god that I did, because you know, imagine this season if I wasn't in it, Ben.
I was hoping to see another friendship like what you had with Kara from your last season. You know, is having a bestiet like Kara an advantage or a weakness in a season? And did you try and recreate that friendship with her with any of the other contestants this time around?
Well, I think what was good for me is I had more than one Karra this time. I had a Liz, I had a Jerry, I had a mate. I had Seannie. I was close obviously with Haley. I was close with Nina. I was close with Stevie up until I got rid of him. I was close with so many people, So what's better than one? Karra ten carras.
The Spice Girls was the best thing ever. Like I when as soon as that formed, I was like, this is the best name for this group ever, and everyone loved it. It melted down. The Internet was so good. I did worry though, with Seannie. Shannie looked like she was pretty upset when I think you got rid of her twice. What did Shannie say, Because we haven't seen that meeting of you two together, what did Shaannie say to you when you finally got to see each other after the show.
Shawnee's one of the greatest EPP of five players, and she's someone that has played a third time. She's played more days than anyone else, and I think she respects the game enough to know that a blindside isn't something personal. But my instinct was right. Seannie wanted to vote me off next and sometimes been the cream just rises to the top. I backed in the numbers to vote Seannie
off and that's exactly what happened. If Shannie had more cut through in other players of the game, they would have stopped me from doing it, but they didn't.
Well, the last question I have for you, though, is what's something for? Oh? I'm not allowed to ask what's something from behind the scenes because I get into trouble. So instead I'm going to ask you just what's your favorite moment from the season? So can you just tell me what is the what's your hero moment when you look back at this season? What are you going to be the most.
I'm so proud I won that endurance challenge and I got what I was craving for after you know, eighty days of playing Survivor, lots of KFC.
George. I am obsessed with you. I think that you are fantastic. I've absolutely loved watching you this season. I think that you've been fantastic. I can't wait to see what you do next. I can't imagine what other worlds George belongs in.
After this waiting see, wait and see. Thanks so much, Ben reppreciate it.
Thanks mate,