It's in the news today, but it was actually on TV Reload the podcast last week.
They might welcome back to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris and on this podcast I go behind the scenes with the biggest players in television. Each episode you will get a front row seat with content makers like executive producers, writers, editors and casting agents, plus the talent that we see on our screens. TV Reload reloads the shows that you were currently watching and gives you a better insight at
our television industry and streaming services today. On the podcast, I have the latest eliminated Big Brother OG and I have been simply dying to get him on the podcast ever since this latest series began. It is the one and only Farmer Dave. David Graham swore he would never re enter the Big Brother House, but as the show celebrates twenty one years on Australian screens here, he is back to play the mother of all reality shows in twenty twenty two. So why did David come back? Well,
the mission was quite simple. He wanted to promote Rough Track, a program that David has been super passionate about and heavily involved with for a number of years. We will also talk LGBTI housemates, how different Big Brother is these days, why he nominated Trevor, and why he felt that it was time to go. However, let's get started with today's guest. I'd like to welcome farmer Dave to TV reload.
Yeah, you need a break and why not do it in the Big Brother House this year? It's my twenty first birthday. My sexuality was not even a thing this time around, and I've invited housemates both new and legendary, because I really, really, really genuinely thought that he was safe as houses will experience be enough to take on the next generation of housemates. Wow, Dave, this is a cutthroat dog eat dog game and the new contenders out
a Big Brother royalty. Whatever you say, be prepared to do it yourself and go one better and actually do it. This is Big Brother.
Hey Dave, how are you?
God? I Ben I feel like I feel like you know, when you get water in your ear and you get it out and you've got all that relief and you just feel so much better, like better than before you had the water in there. That's how I feel like. I feel a lot of relief and I feel reliefedel like, I've just got out of North Korea.
Kids, Great, we're already there. Okay, great. I have to say, you know, I'm shocked to my very foundation. Not to quote Kylie Minogue, but then you're out of the house. How did you feel walking out of the Big Brother House this time around compared to last time?
Last time around, the reality of it hit me, like thousands and thousands of people screaming my name, and the going down that game plank with people just going ballistic, and the amount of support, and it was just you were a rock star. And then it never really let up for years and years and years. But this time around,
it was just, oh, thank god, I thank god. It's like I kind of constantly likened this game to playing rugby, and at forty two years of age, you know, you just get off the field and you're like, oh, thank god, that's over. Like I need to get to the change rooms and wash this shit off me, the mud of the blood, the sweat, the tears, because it was grueling. It was absolutely grueling.
Well, I think it would be really impossible for me to not to start with this quote from three years back on your social media you said I'd rather swallow glass than go back into the Big brother House. And I have to ask you, do you remember writing that on social media?
Well? Absolutely, because that's what I felt for fifteen years, was there was just no way. You know, I did a lot of TV work, and you know, I started in the you know, in the game of being in the spotlight very young. You know, I was modeling around the world when I was I was twenty, so you know, I ticked all of those those boxes, and I just thought I could never do that because you just can't be yourself out in public again, and it's really hard
on your friends, you know what it's like. And I thought, I just, you know, I finally got my life back the last few years and doing doing a job that is just so real and so raw and so valuable that like, why why would I put myself in those circumstances. But then as the universe does, it all opened up and everything just seemed to point in this one direction, so that when I spoke to the EP, it just
all said yes. And I spoke to my team at rough Track and They're all like, yeah, yeah, absolutely, you know, this is all in place, this is all in place, and you know, you've worked solid without many days off for two years through COVID keeping all the kids alive, So yeah, you need a break, and why not do it in the Big Brother house? So yeah, never say never been is really what I'm.
Doing, because I'll have written it down and I'll bring it up and I'll make you rue the day, Especially when it has to do with each brother. I'm always reminding you of things that you've completely forgotten. You know, are there former are many former housemates out there that you think would say no? I mean I heard that there was a couple of people, you know, very high profile people that may have turned it down, but I heard there was an enormous amount of people that were
sad not to do it. Do you think that there are any former housemates out there that would turn this show down? Yeah?
I think I think Chrissy and I think See, they've got their own lives, a very busy lives, very successful lives, and they're in the public eye, so they don't need they don't need that kick that you get from it. You know, as you know, I've done Big Brother for very different reasons to the normal validation and need to be seen stuff. But I think I think those guys, they're fairly sordid, but they would make for a great comeback.
Chris, this one's looking great at the moment. I reckon she could do some of those challenges, you know, I think she could nail.
She totally do those. She is such a rock star. I love her. I just love her as a person.
And funny enough, I was just watching I think it was early this morning or late last night, a video when, of course, you know, the guys in the camera run during her season were talking about her in a really inappropriate way, and I just remember how she stood up to that and was like, no, this is this is not okay, And so I don't think she'd want to get put back in that situation where you are judged so much, and even by people in the camera runs.
I think that was pretty intense, but it really went to the heart of who she is as a person, which is very strong.
And funnily enough, she's actually thinner now than those fat camera mens. So how the world can change, my friend? Yeah, yeah, you know rough track was the reason that you said yes, can you just tell me about how this organization came about? How did you get involved? I need to know more about rough Track. I think a lot of people want to know more about it.
Yeah, So we work with kids twenty age of twelve and eighteen. Essentially, we've got three jobs. One is to keep them alive, two is to keep them out of prison, and three is to give them skills for a secure future and break those cycles that have put them in the situation that found themselves in, which is making a
lot of poor choices. And unfortunately, in the incarceration mad Australia that we've had for two hundred and fifty years, the sad fact is that ninety seven percent of kids that are put in lock up will end up as adults in prison and that is horrendous statistic. So it's the old adage of all these kids falling into the river and drowning. Let's stop trying to save them from the floods, go upstream and find out why they're falling in the first place. And that's what rough track does.
It's a flexible safety net to bounce kids that have fallen through the cracks back up. It's about addressing the fact that you know, we've got kids in their teenage years that cannot read and write because they've just been put at the back of the class, or they're being told to go to the head master's office every single day and they've just missed the ability to do maths and basic English. They can't read a menu at McDonald's,
they look at the pictures. You know, it's extraordinary that we can allow these kids fall through the cracks so so far. And one thing that we know is that hurt people hurt people, and so working with kids that may go on to commit horrendous crimes and have hundreds and hundreds of victims themselves, we can heal them and give them skills to hear themselves, empower themselves and not just not create victims, but not be a victim of
their own circumstance themselves. So it's everything that you could possibly imagine that is required to get a young person that doesn't have that safety net that the average highly privileged and wealthy Australian has. It's to give them that so that they have got the strength and resilience they need to be able to exist in the modern world.
You know what's interesting about you And I'm not sure if it's I mean, it has come across I think both times on Big Brother, but maybe if people don't know, maybe as well as Idea or some of your closer friends, you are an EmPATH. Like the way in which you connect to people is your currency. And you're emotional, you are fragile, you know, you're all of these amazing things
that makes up an EmPATH. I mean, it's sort of how you power yourself and as your friend, I sometimes worry about where you find the energy for something that would be so so increasingly and incredibly all consuming. And some days when I hear what you're doing, I want to scoop you up and you know, look after you.
But then I remember how strong you are. But I guess the question in that is where do you find this ongoing energy to be able to put into these kids who absolutely need you every single moment of the day.
I look at them, that's it. I look at them and I see the gold. You know, when when we're mining gold, there was so much rubble, there was so
much rubble. There's so much fool's gold, and there's just tiny specks of gold, and when you're panning for it or digging for it, it's about focusing on the goals, focusing on the gold, and when you see it, sing, squeal, cry eureka, and build it bigger and create a wedge and get rid of the bad behaviors and create good behaviors because because good habits are just as to break
as bad ones. And that's what I'm doing every single day is my gold, looking for the gold and singing about it, and empowering the young person to mind their own gold and to find within themselves a reason to make a better choice and to be better than they wear yesterday, and to focus on the idea of having a future in setting goals themselves and empowering themselves so
that they don't need me anymore. Like every kid that comes through rough Track, my job is to do myself out of their lives, to give them every skill that I possibly can so that they don't need me. And I'm not a crutch, I'm a flexible safety in it. I'm a trampoline. I'm about bouncing them up to where they want to go.
Is there a bit of a coincidence that you kind of look like a god in your presence, Like you're a bit zeus, like you're a bit thor. Like people make those reference points and you know, there's a lot of people out there that say that they'll do something. You know, there's a lot of people out there that want to kick a tire. But you know you're actually doing that. And I mock you for your looks, as in you looking like God, but you are very impressive in the work that you do.
Yeah, it's about acknowledging the amazing words of Teddy Roosevelt, the man in the arena, And you've gotta always remember. And this is what I teach the kids every day. Get sweat, get blood, get hurt, but do like do something because anyone who's sitting in the stands, you're lapping them. No matter if you are going so slow that you can just get one foot in front of the other, you're already beating all the people that are sitting in
the arena that are still asleep with their dreams. You're chasing your dreams and you're lapping them just by putting one step in front of the other, and by having sweat on your brow, by having blood on you, by having tears in your eyes. It means that you're doing something. And if it's a failure, well then it gives you an opportunity to bounce up and to get up and to step up and to have another go. And that's
failure for me is the great driver. You know, a couple of weeks ago, I lost one of our kids and it was it was so hard, and you know, I leant on you a lot because you've been through this and you know what it's like to lose a human through their own hand. And you know, I got to thank you for that, Ben, like you did, you know, through me through all of COVID, when you know I had twenty kids relying on me every single day for the entire COVID period. You know, You've been an amazing mate.
And and that's what we've got to be is we've got to be there, and when there is a failure, there's an opportunity to be able to do it again. And that's that's what excites me. You know, probably my biggest fear is the idea of winning, because then it's like, oh shit, then I've won. Now I don't get to do it again. I don't get to you know, I don't get to have a goal because I've reached that goal. You know, maybe that's my own personal proble, which is why I'm so good at my Bob, because failure is
my driver, it's my fuel, it's my right. We can do this again. Come on, we've got this well.
I just like the fact that you know stone is unturned with you, like I love the way that you get your hands dirty, and I think it's just impressive. And I guess that's the fiber of our friendship, is just being able to have you in my life for that as well. It's very strange, you know that we get to talk like this because in real life, you know, with your friends, your friends do things and you don't get to sit down and have a moment where you can say thanks for this. But this is really quite
quite something, you know. In something you said before, it made me think about how going back to Big Brother is also a part of your DNA, Like it's in you challenging yourself with something that is I mean, you're not that vain. I know this sounds really crazy. You're a beautiful man, but you're not the sort of person who probably goes into a show like Big Brother for the vanity of it, you know. And the reason did you see me, Ben?
Did you see what I wore in Sta? Did you see that I yeah, I don't look, you know what I'm saying.
The vanity of it, though, there's people that go on reality shows as a bit of a look at me. Where for you, I felt like you did it because yeah, you're challenging yourself and the boys could go, oh, look this is what he's doing himself, like he's putting himself out there. Are the boys that's the best question to ask. Are they watching the show and what do they think about you being.
Yeah, yeah, look some of the kids are not watching, but they know what's going on. But look, we do talk about it each day in circle work where we have a check in in the morning and the afternoon or you know, it's a good conversational for me to bridge with the kids. And yeah, we can talk about relationships because there's so many relationships that I have in the house, good ones, poor ones, difficult ones, amazing ones,
and they're conversational starters. And that's all we need, really is to be able to start a conversation with a young person and to hear them. But yeah, my journey on there has been great conversational stats. But it also it's me walking the talk like I talk it every
single day. With them, but I'm actually showing them. Hey, I'm jumping out into the arena kids, Like here's the fish bowl and I'm in it, and you know, it really crosses that bridge whereby I'm not just this you know, big man on the farm with all the knowledge and everything like that, Like I'm the small fish that's jumped into the North Korea of Big Brother House and put myself up for all the judgment, but all the challenges and the nakedness that is being in that house.
Well we've seen some nakedness as well, which you know has excited the Big Brother fandom. But I want to know what did the producers say to you to pitch for you to come back to the show. Did they need to pitch or was it as simple as can you do it? And it's a yes. I feel like it's a pitch for you.
Look, it was a while back, and I was listening because I had I had two eyes on the kids because you know, I was managing kids. I think it was during during lunch break, and that's when I've got to watch the kids the most, because you know, they're all together, they're around sharp objects and hot things and things that can explode. So I was in and out of the conversation listening and yeah, just looking around at the young people. It was very much so way. I've
got to walk the walk. I've got to I've got to show them that I can step in the arena too, that it's it's I've got to be vulnerable as well. I think that's one of the great powers that we as as elders, for our young people to accept us as guides and to trust us and and to allow us to be responsible for them at their most vulnerable. We've also got to show that you can do that.
And and it's it's really important. I think that you, whatever you say someone else should do, be prepared to do it yourself and go one better and actually do it, do it yourself, and so that you gained that respect through action.
You had one of the most important moments in Australian television history, you know, when you came out in two thousand and six on the series How did that come about? Can we go behind the scenes of that moment, because did the producers pitch that concept to you? Did they ask you to pretend to be straight? Did you suggest to do that?
Yeah? Absolutely, Australia was a different country back then. Ben, You remember, you know, in our lifetimes, I mean you would be putting jail for being gay. I'm a Queenslandic, you know you could easily be sacked for being gay. Legally we were, you know, there's hundreds of laws that
kept us as second class citizens. And you know I experienced the extreme abuse as being a you know, non acknowledged, didn't realize it myself, gay person, going through or boys boarding school and of course working on stations, the constant abuse. You know, that is the extreme homo fabia of the bush of the old Australia. And it was an Australia that I wanted to change, and it was an Australia that I felt needed to change. And the only way
to do it was to have an honest conversation. And the best way to have a conversation with the Australian people is in their laund rooms when they themselves are vulnerable and open to something and big Brother, you know, millions of people would tune in and would watch with their families and it would be water cooler, it would be a conversation point. They could digest it in a way that made sense that you didn't have the ego
in the bravado of community expectations. It was in their home, and I mean back then, it was live on their phones, it was live on the computer screens. You could have a conversation one on one with every individual that turned in and tuned in. And that's what I wanted. That's I wanted. I wanted to have a conversation because maybe I hadn't had those conversations with the people in my life.
I didn't have it with you know, my ten siblings, my dad, my neighbors, my mates, and maybe I just had all this conversation that was pent up inside me that needed needed to be heard back then. And so it wasn't the producers at all. It was definitely me. I think, you know, through the process most of it, they didn't know I was gay until I got gay bashed, actually,
and my eyes were all completely manged up. And I went in to one of the auditions right through the process, and everyone thought that I was like some hardcore meat head. And then I kissed a guy in one of the processes, because you know, they're like, oh, you have to kiss someone, and I just grabbed the guy next to me and gave him a massive pash who ended up of course Ben from Brisbane.
But I heard this, sorry, Ben's a bell as in Bed from Brisbane. You pashed. Now you breathe the life of big Brother in twim and it never left.
Yeah. Yeah, so they just thought that I was just really comfort when my skin I suppose. But then yeah, right at the end of the process, I said, hey, this is what I want to do. And you know, I had the assumption that I would last, you know, a few weeks on the show, and then I'd get back to my life and you know, hopefully i'd have the conversation with Australia and change a few perceptions and prejudices.
Little that I know it would be such a national shift in consciousness and create such mega change as did you know your part in that whole shipping away at the homophobia, fear and hatred towards gay people that we all experienced as young people. But of course now we're in the country that has very little of that.
You know, what's really funny, as well as the honesty of just being yourself and the fragility of doing that on television, also becomes like this superpower, that you have an unintentional superpower because you're unaware of how broad a stroke it is. But I can think about exactly what I was eating, where I was sitting in my laund room as you came out in front of your parents and your siblings and the nation, and I just think
that made me feel confident in some ways. I think it was that moment that made me think, I really got to do this show. You know, I want to go on, you know, I'd love to be able to do something like this, you know.
So that's so that's so cool to hear that, you know, and I'm so fortunate to hear it so often and daily that and that's that makes you get up each day, Right, That's what makes me get up each day in my job. Is if you can inspire change and action in at least one person, then you've succeeded. Like you've won for the day. So thanks, thanks for that, bending thanks for giving me that. Well.
Big Brother has had a really empowering history of former LGB to my housemates. You know, I honestly feel like that this program was the only space of a time where stories about queer people was being told, you know, if you think back to two thousand and one, people were at work saying, there's a gay man in the house. You know's a gay man on national television, on primetime TV,
and people are having to talk about it. I mean, isn't it funny that in twenty twenty two that novelty of just that there's a gay man inside Big Brother has diluted a little bit.
And think we're not thank for show? Yeah, well, look, I mean I think we owe a lot to Ian Roberts. You know, first class footy player, rugby league player ninety ninety five came out. He opened up a new door into who he could be as a country, and I don't think people really fill the void. And that's why, you know, it was so important for me, you know, waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting until two thousand and six to go, Hey, you know, we've got to
keep this conversation going. You know, we're okay with left handed people now. In my parents generation, we certainly weren't. And you know, I want I want my kids to live in a world where people are okay with gay people, just like they are with left handed people. I want to there to be no difference, and look, Ben, you know,
I think the world is totally different. You know, my sexuality was not even a this time around, except when some of the young people were talking to me about my kids and my wife and I'm like, oh, no, I don't have a wife. And they're like, oh, you don't have wife, okay your ex wife. And I'm like, no, no, no, I've never been married. I'm gay. Oh really, oh okay, cool. And it was just a non event, you know, to these housemates that I still had to come out to.
And that's when you know that you're winning as a citizen of a great country when it's a non event and people just move on.
In twenty twenty two, is there's still a way in which this show is pushing boundaries? I mean, is there a way of adding to the conversation still now that we've moved away from the Oh god, there's gay people, there's queer people in this show. You know, is there a way that this show is still affecting the culture of Australia.
Well, I don't think it was just gay people. I think I think you know, we pushed the Big Brother through its twenty one years, has pushed the barrow on women. It's pushed the barrow on hilarious women and bodily functions of women, you know, like that's the mirror that is Big Brother is. You know, We're able to see each other in the raw living and so fantastic for New Australians to see how we are in our natural habitat.
So it's just been wonderful for diversity across across the plane, because to get on Big Brother, you just have to audition or just go on. Really, you don't have to go through the long drawn out process of being the best of a bunch, best of a bunch, best of a bunch, and we know often what that looked like
through our history. So it gave an opportunity for anyone who wanted to put themselves out there, to be put out there and be seen and be heard, and to reflect back on the audience of Australia that this is who we are and that's okay right.
Well, I was moving into the space of I rang you, and we talked about this the other day. You know, I've rewatched the Exit Kiss with Tim Dahmer and I just want to say to everyone listen that I'm not a sick. Oh. And you know, although Big Brother obviously still has that voyeuristic element to it, but because I found that moment really quite groundbreaking, because here we are, two decades later, reinventing the way in which an audience
sees two gay men on television. And I really loved watching you and Tim and the evolution of your friendship. I mean, I know both of you personally to some extent, and you're both very different gay men, and to see that relationship evolve that way, and then to see you kiss as friends, I think that was really important for people to see, you know what I mean, like this community and the way in which we connect and look after each other. I thought that was just so amazed.
Are you amazed that we're watching two men that have a blatonic relationship kiss on television? You know?
I suppose, Yeah, it's amazing. I was in it and I was being it, and yeah, I suppose when you put it like that, Ben, it is cool. It is amazing, and it's a non event. And that's the best part about it, an absolute non event. And for you and me when we talk about it, it's like, oh, holy shit, Yeah that is that is big. But you know, I've done how many dozen interviews and no one's brought it up. And that's what's so damn cool about it. To men kissing as friends not an issue anymore.
But I think that shows who I am, you know, it shows my age, It shows my evolution of being forty two and still seeing that on television because it means something to me, you know. Yeah, and I'm still in it, you know. But I think for those young people that are watching it and the fact that they just go, you know, they don't even flinch. It's the fight though, you know, like that moment where you said this earlier. I mean, you were beaten up for being a gay man in the mid two thousands, and yet
we've come so far, you know. Anyway, the moment wasn't lost to me for that very reason.
Yeah, and now I'm leader and the guide of kids, and probably the type of kids that twenty years ago would have done all the bashing and the beating. And isn't it amazing? Isn't it amazing cool we are as a country and how far, how far we've come. But you're right, like those of us that have been through it, it's still a thing. It's still a thing, but what a great thing.
Do you have any relationships with, say, Zach, Johnny, Nathan or Ben Zabel, all of these amazing, incredible trailblazers that have been on this show. I mean, have you got a friendship with all of those people? Did they call you and say good luck or anything?
Yeah? Well, obviously, you know, for those that don't know, Ben and I great friends, but like got to be coming on nearly like sixteen seventeen years. Yeah, and Zach, Yeah,
I've been great mates with Zach. And look, Annie Garth reached out, We've chatted on the socials and yeah, definitely definitely other other gay house mates because I suppose, you know, we're more people Climberson have been in the Big Brother House and those of us that a gay, I suppose, you know, to put ourselves out there, knowing our histories
and knowing what we've all been through. We're an even smaller, even smaller group, but we've all been I think, dedicated to chipping away at the idea that there's something to be afraid of, that there is nothing beer with having a gay guy cut your hair or give you a speeding fine, or grow you breed or your cattle or you know, there's just nothing to be afraid of. And I think every single housemate has done their part in that.
Well, I just want to say how proud of you I am. And you know, in some ways it really helped me through my own silliness of jealousy about not going back myself was that I felt as though you were the correct person out of that LGB tie very small pool of people that have done the show to go back and to represent all of us. And I loved it because if anyone could do it, I was
glad it was you. But I also felt like the vanity was taken out of it, and that your choice to do it because of rough track and all of that made it really powerful. And so when.
I was I wasn't advocating or doing this on behalf of the gay community.
We shouldn't go down that path either, shouldn't. Ye.
Yeah, I got a lot of abuse from from gay people last Timmeer, and now you speak for me. I'm like I was speaking of you. I just didn't want a kid to go through what I went through. I wanted it to end. But yeah, yeah, I think look a lot of gay people even this day, especially in the religious parts of Western Sydney, whatever those religions are, that they're still going through a lot. And we've got to remember that not everyone gets to live in the beautiful,
free and open modern world that we've created. That there are still people going through their own pain and their own hurt. And yeah, it's it's good to be able to at least remind them that you can live your life and you can do it however you want, and you're the author of your own destiny.
Did you worry if it was Farmer Dave yourself going to be Big Brother appropriate in twenty twenty two, Well you.
Have the added benefit of knowing how inappropriate I can be. Yeah, So, as much as I'm like this very much so all about empowerment and building resilience in young people and making better choices. I'm a loose unit. You know, I'm still a boy from the bush and I can be a total loose unit. And because sometimes you've got to just blow off steam and enjoy yourself and live in the moment. So I know where you're coming from, Ben, And also you know, I have a bit of a potty mouse.
And I remember with Big Brother he was saying to me like, David, you know, we can't use much footage of you because you're constantly swearing and you're really loud, and you've got to tone it down. And you know, he stopped me from having coffee and all sorts of punishments on me and take you away of privileges, and he said, you know why you do this, and I said, oh, it's because I work with these vulnerable and violent teenagers and they just swear all the time, and you know
when you're around that in the workplace. And then he's like, David, David, we've got footage from you from two thousand and six, this is before you started working with these kids, and we've got footage of you coming out of the house for two minutes swearing like I don't know how many, like every three seconds there was a swear, whether they had to be about So, yeah, I'm an inappropriate person.
But how good is it that I've learned through Big Brother this time around by taking coffee away from me to really manage my language, Because I don't think I've worned all this entire chat, not.
Once my friend, not even once.
With me of my bad language.
I'm very proud of you because you know, I'm not a big swear on myself. But I also love you for your uniqueness. I mean, I know you to be very opinionated. I mean, you're not too concerned about Cancel culture. You never have been. You know, did you worry that you could make a wrong move this time around in some way? You know, did you think maybe being on the show could change the course of your relationship with audiences because they may see you to be a little outspoken.
I took my mask off sixteen years ago, and I am never going to put that shit back on. I'm I'm my real self. I'm a raw self, and I don't have an opinion on Your opinion of me is kind of how I see it. And so if you don't like me, that's okay. If you don't like my behaviors, that's okay. If I'm not hurting anyone or not giving pain to someone else, well then what you know, what's the problem. And that's kind of how I went going
in there. But there was definitely no modification of who I am as a person, which I think was pretty clear to see on the screen.
Well that's what they were going to get, you know, when they're signing you up. That's what they're going to get. I guess you know. When I heard you were going into the show and I heard you were who was going to be in there with you? I was just expecting you to be really close with Drew and Layla. What was the reason why you didn't bond so much with those two?
So Drew, I did, Drew, I absolutely did. You know, like talk about guys kissing, we used to kiss every day on the lips and it was great. He's so beautiful because, like many people watching, when Tully came in and kissed him all those years ago, I was like, oh my god, I want to do that one day. And that's why you've got to have gold kids, and you got to have dreams and you've got to get out of bed aperientson because I got to kiss Drew every single day in the house without fail, and yeah,
it was I had a great relationship with him. I love him as a person. Top Lope, Layla. I don't think found her feet and found her comfort levels. And I don't think that me as a person was able to help her get comfortable, know what I mean? Like, I don't know what I don't know what it was that I couldn't I couldn't help her get comfortable in
the house. But I just felt like, you know when a dog does, you know, the circles and scratching, and he's trying to get comfortable, and it's like, dog, you're sitting on your bed, Why are you scratching? Why are you circling? Like, just lay down, You're going to lay down anyway. I felt like she was like that, she just was not able just to lay down and just be comfortable and just enjoy the experience. I felt that she was constantly still in the awkward phases of walking
into a room. Yeah, and well.
I think in some ways the reason why I say this is because you two actually have some very key values. But that doesn't always necessarily make the best friendships though, do you know what I mean? Like, I think you and her both very similar people and your yeah, your value system.
Yeah, I mean we're both spiritual workers. Yeah, and like or social worker. It was crazy the amount of social workers that were in Big Brother House.
I just want to flash back to the thing before un quote Erica Jane from the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and say, you and Drew making up is up there with some of my favorite pawn So.
Yeah, it was. It was pretty funny. It was like, well, what did the housemates say? It was Costco Costco, Johnny care meets eld Hemsworth.
Oh look, I think you guys down playing yourselves just a little bit. You know. Do you think that the way that you came in at the start with Reggie, Tim and Estelle set up how that dynamic would ultimately unfold. I mean there was a stronger bond with the original four who were in the main frame.
Yeah. Yeah, the four of us were very close where where you know, me and Regg were mum and dad, and Selle and Tim were the twins in the back seat shoving each other and whacking each other and going mom tantrims and all that sort of stuff at each other. It may still be going on.
No comments, no saying a thing. Step away, do.
Not open the back window. We're going to pull over kids, We're going to get out, We're going to have a circle, We're going to talk this out.
You've got to love them, That's the thing is I think with you know why I was naughty as a kid and my mum let me be naughty in a way. I mean, she did still try and parent me, but she did leave me to be my wrong I guess, you know, and outspoken and make mistakes, you know, And she wasn't there to tell me no every single time. She allowed me to learn it. And I think that, you know, that's obviously something that you've learned over time
working with children. And I'm now feeling bad about referring to Tim and Estella's children in this analogy, but I think that's a good thing in a friendship as well, to not tell people what not to do and to let them be themselves. And I think, oh, work it up and that's it.
Like so many people have said to me, you know, why don't you pull up this person? Why don't you pull up that person? And it's like, is that my role? Like, I mean, there are certain points where you want the person to reflect and you know, you own the stuff that you need to own. Maybe you can own a little bit more, but sometimes it's it's you don't have to feed into the negative. And sometimes sometimes you can just remind yourself reward behavior you like, ignore behavior you don't,
and look for the gold. And if there's no goal to be mined, then maybe maybe stop mining and you know, allow it to peter itself out. And you know, with with Tim and Estelle, I'm not going to pick aside. Neither of them want me to pick aside, never did want me to pick aside. I had both their backs. I still have both their backs. I love them intensely, as I'm sure you do. And that's the cool thing about us. For the main frame for the og, for the founding for was that we really respect each other,
like really respect each other. And I've still got rich wo we can mum and dad joke about everything.
You really played your game your own way and you didn't really stick to anyone else's plan and that upset people at certain times. Was that important for you? Was that something that you thought you were going to do going in or was that just how it sort of rolled itself out to be your own person? Oh?
Look, Ben, I didn't have a strategy so to speak. It was just be myself, be raw. You know, you know how it is, it's big brother's game. You're in North Korea, like don't even try and you know author this one, like you've just you've got one person you need to worry about and that's that's you. But look I made these amazing connections and also, you know, for me, big brother, last time around was such an incredible life changing experience that I wanted those people that needed more
time in the house. That is this incredible therapy session, this self reflection session, this check in, this, you know, all of this stuff that is life changing. You know, I was voting to keep people in the house that needed more of that, and people that had what they needed, I was voting for them to leave. You know. That's kind of how I was voting all the way through until Mama Jugs Reggie was like, Dave, I'm putting on my wife hat and you're doing what I say, and then so I did so just sort of.
Pull you into line. We have to talk about the Trevor incident, because what was your rationale for your and your choice to put him up for nomination when you did. It was kind of the moment that everyone has discussed the most online and for people that know you as well, it seemed a little out of the cannon for you to put someone like Trevor up, who I know had been so important to you in your game. What is the Nationale.
That's a friend, well just as a mate. Oh look, you know I didn't realize I was going to win one of the challenges. You know, I've really broken you know, as you know, my body has been destroyed. I've broken my hips, broken my legs, my arms, you know, you name it. I've broken, really torturing my body from a very very young age. So I never thought that I could possibly win a challenge. You know, I'm middle aged. You know, the very fit young people in there from
their thirties and twenties. I didn't think that I could have won. And then you know that challenge that I won, I just found it so easy. I could have I could have hung on there for hours and hours more. I felt electric and it was it was euphooric. So I you know that one I just had to win. And on reflection, yeah, I probably should have put up Brenton.
But you know, talking to my OG mates, it was like a you know, we need to make it very clear to them, as you know, I've been playing my own game, you know, make it very clear to them that we're not targeting them. And you know I got told don't put Brenchon up because of poor bloke. He's only just arrived in the house, you know, wouldn't that be mean? And I'm like, yeah, but you know whatever,
he's an intruder. But anyway, I got convinced to choose Trevor because I really, really, really genuinely thought that he was safe as houses And then it dawned on me that he wasn't safe and my own housemates that respected him so much and loved him so much, we're actually going to vote him out. And it just blew my
head off. And that's I suppose the first time that I'd actually checked myself and gone, wow, Dave, this is a cutthroat dog eat dog game, and you are well and truly involved in it, and you're playing it whether you like it or not.
Well, to win Big Brother in twenty twenty two, you kind of have to be a certain person. Did you get to the point where you thought, I'm going to need to do I'm going to need to go against my morals and lie and cheat and steal if I want to stay in this game? And can Dave do those things just for a Big Brother title? And I don't think that that is you not to say? I also, just before I jump away from that. You can still be on Big Brother and win without lying and cheating
and stealing. That's not what I'm saying. Yeah, it does pressure you as the taste of the show and the desire to stay there and the need and the wand does push you to the lie, cheating and stealing. Do you know what I mean? Like it does. Yeah, it's sort of pushing manipulation. So is that a very real conversation you had inside your head? And I'm going to have to start lying and cheating and stealing to stay here and that's not okay by me.
Yeah. It had gotten to the point I think, you know, it was the point when Trevor left and so many people went back on their words that I was like, Wow, this is intense, and then continue to get you know, through Hack a week and then Cam Temptation week. The wind had gone out of my sales and I'm like, this is not a game that I feel comfortable playing anymore. I have a really important job. I need to go
and do that. Joba. I think what I needed to do here is done, you know, promoting rough Track to the general public, pushing myself to my limits, winning two challenges, and then protecting Reggie and ensuring that you know, Reggie was to go as far as I could help her go were my ambitions, and I'd achieved all of that. And again I was voting for people to stay in the house if they needed more to gain from the house. There was nothing more that I could gain from being
in there. So it was my time to go, and I couldn't have stayed a day longer. I got everything I wanted out of it. I loved the experience, and I'm appreciative for going when I went and not having to walk out, because they would have been, you know, not cool.
I'm glad you didn't walk out. I'm glad you stuck it through, Glad you played it the way that you did. And yeah, it was really it was great television as well, you know, and I think that's something that you do very well.
Great television.
Great, isn't it great TV?
But I think whole show, like, the producers have done a great job of putting the housemates in there, and the housemates have done an amazing job of creating really engaging, incredible, authentic, wonderful TV. And that's just that's just, you know, sometimes the luck of the draw but isn't it fantastic TV.
I went to the I went to the footy and everyone's watching it, whether it's watching it through Facebook, through Insta or through the seven app or directly on TV, but it's it's everywhere and people were really engaged.
I'm just really glad we can now talk about it because when you came out of the house you had to say to me, Ben, I can't say anything to you, and the only thing you told me was it's really fun and there's a lot that goes on, and you said, if they play in half the stuff, if they really quarter of it really hard.
Yeah.
So then and we're talkers as well, so we had to do our very best sitting on our hands, and I'm waiting for Reggie, you know, so I can then start talking to Reggie because she's the same with me. And I hate having conversations with the two of you where I'm not allowed to ask the stupid Ben Norris questions because you both meet me with you know, I can't talk about it, you know, And I'm like, oh, yeah,
but it will get to that point. Is there anyone from your two thousand and six series that you felt deserved to come back because everyone's talked about it. You know, there was Tim Drew Tully from thirteen, and there was Leila and Estelle from twelve, and you ended up being the representative of your whole series. Did you feel like there was say one or two people that deserve to be there? Oh?
Absolutely, Anna, like hello game on Models. I think her time in the house was really cut short. I think she had so much more to bring, and where she's at now in life is phenomenal. Like A she's stunning fifteen out of five and she's just a really cool person. So I think definitely definitely her from my series. I suppose Crystal as well. I mean she's gone full circle as a person and created her own story and it's very different to who she used to be, So she'd
make really interesting TV two. Yeah, the two girls, Crystal and A for sure.
Or to celebrate twenty one years of Big Brother, I've been asking everyone Gretel Colleen's questions that she would ask you as you left the show. You've been asked this question, the ten question, my friend. But I get to ask them to you again.
Oh how cool? Alright, I let's do this.
What did you miss the most while you're inside the Big Brother House.
A look, it's two things, the rough track farm, the kids and the dogs and the animals and freedom. Like to not have freedom is really really hard. And yeah, my farm and freedom, that's what I was missing.
Who was your favorite person inside the Big Brother twenty twenty two house?
Reggie, Reggie, Reggie.
Who was your least favorite person inside the Big Brother House?
Oh cracky, I'm We're gonna have to say Brenton because he he put me and Reggie in a scale up for a vich geez bruh.
Although how funny was it when he was cleaning up that backyard in his speedos? That was hilarious And what you said was.
Ye oops.
Who was the funniest person in the house?
Trevor Trevor And look, Trevor. Trevor was just great. He just knew when someone needed a laugh, needed a pepper. God, he's got me some doozies across in my hair. And Big Brother would be in on half of his jolly pranks. He would get me multiple times per day. But also Tim, like Tim is just hilarious, just a naturally funny bugger.
He's so smart so he can lean into his intelligence with his humor, and that is a dangerous mix. My friend, who was the laziest person in the house, Oh.
My god, that was the tie between Gabby and Alisha. Little ferals, little sweet girls, absolute lazy, leave their crap everywhere. Like you know, I'm a youth worker, right that's used to picking up after kids. But I didn't expect it from two white, privileged girls.
Isn't it funny that every single person eliminated who's been asked Gretel's questions have all said that those girls have tied. I wonder whether or not they're listening to at this point and of like looking around their learning something. Pick up after yourself kids. What was your greatest regret?
My greatest regret was saying that I would never do it again, because going back on was absolutely brilliant, a wonderful choice. It pushed me to my limits, and I have no regrets of doing it again. My only regret was for so long saying I'd never do it.
Who will be out next? Not what you know now, because obviously you might know more. But who did you think would be the person to walk out after you?
Oh? The person I thought after me would? I was expecting after me was probably going to be Drue or Look, I think I think it. Look the girls are trying to create a female alliance, but I just don't know how that's going to go because Rage is not into that sort of stuff and she used the Queen Bee, So I don't think they have the natural leader that they need in Rege. So I'm thinking it'll probably be
maybe even Jewels. Yeah, I think it's Jewels because the OG side is losing losing power and I think she'd be one that they could pluck off off. And yeah, because they're not I don't think they're going to fire against any of the Big house mates.
Well, the big question is the last question, and who's going to win this thing? Who's going to take out Big Brother twenty twenty two.
I want Reggie to win beyond anything, But I really respect Johnson's game. But I love Reggie and Reggie. Reggie really deserves to win. But but yeah, Johnson's Johnson's a cool dude. He's a really really good guy with a great set of morals. And like you, you know, when you got to go on Big Brother, you know you were you're a Big Brother mega fan and you got to go on, and I was so happy for you when you went on and Johnson and I just love it when people get to live their dreams and I
back them. But Reggie, you know, was always her dream to get straight back into that house. So I want Reggie to win, but I'd be just as happy if Johnson goes all the way as well. On the Newby side, there you go plays my best both sides, one from each.
It's so you, it's so you, you know, but it's also great for you to be able to acknowledge both sides as well, of the Ogs and the newbies. That's the way we refer to them for Reverend for the rest of our lives. But yeah, I think it's a good way to acknowledge both sides of that. Everyone who joins the podcast gets asked this question, and that is, what is something from behind the scenes that we did not see that we will not see, something of a behind the scenes secret from your time going back on
Big Brother? Was there something of a secret or a moment or something that would surprise fans to know had happened which hasn't been shown so many because.
It wasn't wall to wall Big Brother and being able to watch on your phone so much. But I suppose something that was just bizarre was I. I used to go without eating for a long time because there just wasn't enough food, and so I just eat And I remember coming across some carrots in the backfridge in the laundry, and I was just I remember waking up in the middle of the night going, oh my god, those carrots, and I haven't eaten for days. So I just went in a months from a carrot. And then big brother
set me this challenge. I think the next night of the night after that, I had to eat like two kilos of carrots without being busted. So I was eating all this. Can you imagine two kilos of carrot without being busted? But of course everyone heard me, and everyone's like, what is going on? And the deal was that I could win back coffee because of all my swearing, he took the coffee off me. I could win back coffee if I succeeded in this carrot. But I couldn't get busted.
It was just so weird. And went off for ages that dates fucking eating all these bloody carrots all night. But I wouldn't like everyone when they would they would start to the conversation. I know what they're talking about, Like I'm like no, no, sprots down about this and I won't get my coffee back.
Well, the next time you stay at my house, I'm just going to make sure that I stuck up on some carrots just to bring back some memories.
I can't eat a carrotter this day, Like, I literally cannot eat a carrotter this day.
My dog, my dog Oscar, knows that you're here because he's like trying to get up here to say hello to you. I think he was terrified of you last time, but I think he was terrified of all of us. Dave, can I just say it was so amazing to be able to have this chat. Just this has been very relaxed chat of TV reload. I'm in Warburton, You've got no clothes on, my dog is here. But thank you for coming back to Big Brother, and thank you for doing such a good job with it, and good luck
with Rough Track. I think now a wider audience is in your audience to watch what you're doing with it.
Thanks to and you can find out more go to Roughtact dot com or follow us on the socials and Ben. Let's hope they do another Big Brother back to the Future and you get to be on the next time, because the whole time that I was in there, I was expecting you to come in. I kept going into Big Brother going I love that.
Astelle and Tim put On, I don't remember who it was, one of them said the Big Brother actually had to announce that Ben Norris is coming nowhere near this house and to stop talking about it. And I think with Sonya, who said to me, was like, then they talked about you the whole way through the show and there was so much drama. Imagine if they'd put you in there. And she was like, maybe too much drama, so maybe it was a good thing.
Yeah, Well you've been part of it all the way.
So yeah, thank you for the chat today, Thank you for all your time. It's been amazing.
Thanks mate,