It's in the news today, but it was actually on TV Reload the podcast last week.
They might welcome back to TV Reload.
My name's Benjamin Norris and on this podcast I go behind the scenes with the biggest players in television. Each episode you will get a front row seat with content makers like executive producers, writers, editors and casting agents, plus the talent that we see on our screens. TV Reload reloads the shows that you are currently watching and gives you a better insight at our television industry and streaming services.
Today.
On the podcast, I have Dr David Craig, who is the chief currently leading the hunt on Channel ten's hit new series Hunted, the groundbreaking news series from Endemolshin in Australia. Ask the question, if you had to disappear without a trace, with a team of elite investigators in pursuit of you,
could you evade being captured? Well, While that question will get answered this week in the series finale, I'm going to deep dive into series one and get the answers from retired afp Dr David Craig, who has been at the front of the hunt of those eighteen fugitives with limited funds and resources. The fugitives attempted to evade and remain undetected for twenty one days. The show is an elaborate concept that has had Australian audiences questioning how true.
To life this show really is.
So while I had the opportunity to unpack the behind the scenes with a person in the top job, I jumped at it and I have all the answers you guys have been thumbing for weeks. We will find out why a former detective superintendent at the Australian Federal Police would say yes to being on a reality show, why the Hunters never changed their clothes, was there a camera crew making the fugitives too easy a target? And who is set to play Dr David Craig in a book based.
On his life.
However, let's get started with today's guest. I'd like to wellcome Hunted's Chief in charge to TV reload.
These simulated operations are very very hard to put together. We have eighteen fugitives in two vehicles headed towards the Melbourne area. They've weaved that competitive spirit with the Aussie sense of humor. I will be incredibly surprised that anyone gets that finish line, How can you go and run with a camera crew following you? Fujas can run anywhere in Victoria. It's as real as it can be without being with We will hunt you, we will find you,
and we will catch you. There's no acting, it's just the real thing.
Hi, doctor David Craig, how are you.
I'm good, Thank you, thanks for talking to me.
Well, congratulations on the international success of Hunted. How the hell did you get involved in this show?
Reluctantly would have to be the word that comes to mind. I Yeah, they and a Maulshine approached me initially, and I wasn't that inclined to be involved. Was so new, and I'm not a television person. I don't have any of those skills. So anyway, after some time and I did some research and looked in to the legitimacy of the way the investigations are conducted and refereed, and that it's a fair income competition. Then I decided, yeah, I want to play that. I'm pretty competitive person by nature.
Well, getting to know you the way we have since the show debuted, I imagine you're the sort of person that's going to ask a few questions when to producer calls and ask you to be a part.
Of a show like this.
What were those first few questions when it came to processing the idea of taking on this job.
The questions I had to ask were because I hadn't heard of the show before. I needed some time to research it. So and research I did. I watched every single episode of every single international series before I went and spoke to them anymore. I needed to be satisfied because my reputation is under line and I'm not a reality TV person. I'm not even a TV person, and if I was going to be involved, I needed to
be involved as myself. I said, well, you know, I'm happy to have a crack at it and I'll belie myself. And so far it's working and it's not good enough. I'm sure they'll let me know.
In the role of chief with a background in Australian law enforcement, with considerable amount of experience as a detective superintendent of Australian Federal Police, did you think such a big concept would be hard to pull off?
Absolutely? Absolutely, I needed. That's why I needed to do so much research. Benjamin was I've done a lot of international training in Asia and the US and Europe, and these simulated operations are very very hard to put together. And I have to say the way the crew at Huntred have put that together, it's the most realistic experience that can be created. That's not actually a real experience, if you know what I mean. It's as real as it can be without being real.
Well, you've been on some very high profile cases over the years, Bali bombings, capturing Southeast Asia's most wanted criminals.
Very high profile jobs.
Did this opportunity feel like a rare opportunity to have some fun with what you're highly trained with? I mean, is that how you saw this opportunity?
That's exactly how I saw the opportunity. It was a competition, a lot of fun, a chance to use as many all my skills and the skills of this amazing group of hunters that I have around me. I don't do anything by myself. I'm the chief, but I have an amazing team working with me. The same in the AV I didn't track down as hurry by myself. You know, literally hundreds of police working intelligence and developing leeds to
track that person down. So yeah, it's a fantastic opportunity to use those skills in a competition against some fair going Aussies that are having a good crack at trying to win one hundred thousand dollars.
What would you do for one hundred thousand dollars.
I think that the show has really resonated because we're so thirsty for something new on television. Did you think we need to see more concepts out of the box when it comes to getting audiences involved wanting to watch television.
In my completely unqualified opinion, yes, what's good about this is there's there is no host. There's no introduction, there's no challenges. It's not a beauty competition, it's not a you know, I'm not sort of being disparaging about any other television show, but I could only ever be involved with something that is just real and unfolds itself in real life. So yeah, I think it's freshing that there's
no host. It's just go from the time I launched the helicopter to the time of the end of the series, then it's just go, go go. It's like an action film if you like.
If they ring you now and ask you to be on I'm a celebrity, to get me out of here. I'm assuming that's a no.
That's a definite no. That's a definite note. But if they asked me to do a celebrity hundred and track down Aunt Middleton from Sas Australia, I am all over that guy. For no apparent reason. I've never met the guy, but just I know he was just so qualified and such a experienced Special Forces operative. He would be a real person to go up hard against. You could lean nothing on the table with him.
Well, there's been celebrity versions of Hunted in other territories around the world. Is there an Australian celebrity who you'd like to hunt down Daniel McPherson.
I would love to hunt him down. His face a charming like. I'd just like to find him to have a chat.
Actually, you weren't somebody who I thought would want to track down Daniel McPherson. But I've heard a rumor. Is there a possibility that he could play you in a movie based on you know, a book?
Yeah, that's true. Actually, Daniel is He's in the role of producer with some other high level producers in a group in Sydney that are developing it for a film and it looks like Daniel will play me when the film gets off the ground, which is a real honor for me. I've followed Daniel's career for many years. He's just one of Australia's most talented actors and it would be a real honor to see him on the screen playing me.
How important is it for you to make sure that Defeating Terror gets made accurately to the real life events that actually took place. Is there a license when it comes to art imitating life?
I don't know if this is going to ask you a question or a lot, but in a very strange way, when the second Barley bombing happened in two thousand and five, there was a film crew of Australians making a documentary or a sorry dramatization of the Bali one bombing in Barli when it happened. So there was a film crew filming for the Bali one bombing when the Bali two bombing happened, and I had agents going in to stay exactly where they were filming at the Cartika Plaza in Bali.
So the actors of that series got to see the real life of what they were acting, and one of those actors was Richard Roxborough, who's again an amazing, amazing actor, and I got to I by chance, just met him about a year ago and I mentioned to him, I said, you were in Bali in two thousand and five when the second Barley bombing happened. He said yeah, and we talked about it and he said he was playing a character called David Ryts. And I said, well, I said,
David Royds there to Indonesia. He was our forensics guy. I send him there and he met David Royds when he was meant to be playing David Royds. It was just so peculiar that it was like art imitating life imitating art. It was very surreal. So yeah, they didn't end up finishing the film, but hopefully The Defeating Terror with Daniel McPherson and the producing group, we'll get it off the ground and get it into production.
How surreal I mean to kind of be turned into kind of your own James Bond esque series. That's kind of not something you probably planned when you started out in this career.
No, not at all. No know. I'm a trade at heart, did a trade in the coal mines, and I did not see my career going down to particularly now in front of cameras is just completely bizarre for me, and I'm not very comfortable. I'm happy talking about investigations. I'll talk about that all day, but put a script or something in front of me, I can't do it. And
that was one of the caveats that with Hearted. I said, I could only ever be you know, don't try and make me recite anything, and they said, there's no acting, it's just the real thing, and that suits me to the ground.
I'm already looking forward to series two, and the reason why is I think that people are taking notes and I think that the next time is going to be more intense.
Am I onto something here?
Look, anyone, if there is a season two, definitely the fugitives will be have a lot more ammunition, They'll have a lot more tools at their disposal. But let me tell you, we need to pick our game up as hunters. Every single hunter that we've got in HQ and our very accomplished ground hunters, they know my expectation and they know it's not high enough, and it won't be high enough until we have every fugitive in the bag.
In Hunted and in life. You know, what's the biggest mistake people can make when it comes.
To hiding generally, you know, reaching out to family, that's usually or falling back. People build a habit, You become habituated in your life. It's a comfortable routine that you end up in. When you're pushed out of your comfort zone, you look for your familiar things and it's very hard to disabduate. That's very big word. Disobituate yourself. Basically, break that habit and get a different rhythm to your life. It's very hard to maintain that under periods of stress.
Without giving anything away. Throughout the series, who were you the most impressed with?
Do you know that they have all had their strong elements. Chris and Panite were very good. Nick and Levinya roughing it out there for so long. That was very impressive. Brittany and Karen when they were on the rundown in one Thagie, so they were just cruising along having a nice holiday, and we were overthinking tactics and operations in the area where we should have probably modified our sites
a little bit. Not speaking badly of them at all, they played their game and they almost beat us completely with it well.
On last night's episode, we've really got a sense of that if you start to wig out or deviate from your plan, that's when you kind of become the most vulnerable. Is that true to real life as well when it comes to people who are.
On the run.
Yeah. Absolutely. For example, when Nick and Lavinia were having their famous cheese board and our ground hunters went into making quarries just a couple of kilometers away, and we cut them off from all that infrastructure that they had to support, and suddenly all they had was themselves, a few dollars and someone else's car that wasn't even full of fuel. That really increases pressure on fugitives and that's why they ended up at the corner where they were.
International versions, which you've watched, you know before you signed up for this, you know there's been different incarnations of the series. What do you think the biggest difference is with our Australian version. Have we brought something different to the format? Yeah?
I think so, And it's really good And I don't know how they did this through production, but there is the good Australian humor threaded through it. That this is a fair income hardcore game we are playing. There is nothing left off the table. So there's no falsity, There is no one just having a go for the sake of television. Everyone wants to win. But when the whistle blows, we're all friends again, and they've weaved that competitive spirit
with the sense of humor that slips through. You may have seen Ben Owen, you know, a British guy from British Intelligence, saying, you know, we've got to get fair income on a mate. You know, how good is that we've got. We've just converted one pomme to Ossie Slaying.
He's good on the show.
He is actually one of those very annoying people that is just a nice guy and very good at everything they do. I would like to start some rumors about him. I just can't don't think i'll get any tracks.
People have been commenting that you guys, the Hunters people who are in the HQ, you're all wearing the same clothes every day, which I think is weird because no one ever seemed to say that about Fox Molder on the X Files.
No, that's right, yeah, and I remember watching Fox. I never thought about that either.
Yeah.
No, well, we're we're not really focused on were certainly personal hygien is obviously important, but we're more focused on catching fugitives. You know, it's about fugitive. It's not fashion. That's what I say. I wear a suit every time. This is my uniform. This is what I wear where I was a detective superintendent. This is what I'm wearing now. Why would I want to muck around and thought into a tie or we don't have room for pretty boys
and girls. We just have the only time we've got any mental capacity needs to be devoted completely to catching these fugitives.
Absolutely.
People love to pick apart shows, though they love to sit at home and make their comments. What's the most common question that you get from people who recognize you from the show? When people come up and say, oh my god, it's you from The Hunted. You know, but do they have these common questions for you?
It's never happened to me yet. No, I haven't been noticed in public and look like carry a sign around saying look at me. You know, I'm trying to be a celebrity. Seriously, I've never been approached in public yet, So I'm sorry I can't answer. I can't answer that question.
Do your friends and family ask you a common question, like, what's the most common question you're getting from people that are a part of your community.
Well, a lot of people ask how can it happen? Probably the biggest question, Vinjamin that I think, and this is I think with everybody who watches as a show, the first reaction is, and I had it to how can you go and run with a camera crew following you? Very legitimate question. I mean, you can't, is the answer. But what the way it's done in production is that it's not two fugitives on the run, it's actually three and one's carrying a camera. That's that simple. Well, I
don't know how they do things in the field. I know the Covit cameramen and camera and women that were with the fugitives. They were living at tough they were eating, sleeping with the fugitives. They were fugitives, and they weren't there to as camera people, as they were more there as to record the fugitives. And they were fugitives themselves. So it was like groups of three fugitives as opposed
to groups of two. They hid, they walk over clothing, they did everything they could because believe me, no one was on our side.
I think we've evolved so much. When it comes to producing television, we think of, oh god, this looks amazing. There must be five or ten people making this show. There must be a whole camera crew. But we've evolved so much that really you've just got this one extra person, which answers a huge question. It puts a big piece of the puzzle together for a lot of people to have been watching the show.
Yeah, yeah, it is amazing. And I heard mart Benson say publicly that it's at one stage they had over ninety cameras recording simultaneously, so I mean they have got cameras everywhere to replicate things, to give us access. Because something else people say is it seems very coincidental that the hunters are always onto the fugitives. But it would be very boring TV if they kept showing every time we missed the fugitives. Because sometimes we are well off chart,
you know, we're well off piece. We chase down every lead, but a lot of the time when no were even near the fugitives. So that would be some boring television if they showed all our false leads that we are coming up with a.
Really good question for you. Is the big debate that I've been reading online. Do you think that this show gives criminals ideas or do you think it frightens criminals from maybe committing crimes.
I think if a criminal is watching hundred and they're learning from that, then really they're not a very good criminal. Oh, I would hope if it was someone that was considering a major crime, then this gives a glimpse of a little bit of what Australian intelligence and law enforcement can throw you away if you want to harm people in the Australian community. So it's a little glimpse absolutely, but it's not by any means the whole gambit.
What is something from behind the scenes that we're as an audience didn't see that we won't see that you can tell us as a bit of a behind the scenes secret from Hunted.
It Probably they probably won't. It probably won't make it through to the final But one time Ben a On who the lovely British chap that we were just talking about. He's fairly shortened stature, high in intelligence. Obviously, he left the set one time and I put three cushions on his chair for when he came back so he could reach the monitor. All right, and I never confessed to him it was me, so you know that's probably the inside thing, and when he hears that, he'll come after me. I'm sure.
Well, mate, it's just been so lovely to chat with you. I've been loving the show. I think a lot of Australians have been enjoying watching something new. You've definitely brought something unique to the show and something that you know you can't manufacture with your credibility. Thanks so much for having this chat and unpacking the show with me.
Well, thanks very much, Benjamin, and hopefully there will be a season two mate, we can talk again.
There's got to be a series two. But honestly, as I was saying earlier, I think it's going to evolve. Yeah, you bet. Look after yourself. I'm so sorry about my voice. You one day you'll probably hear me on a podcast to be like that is not the same person that spoke to me that it's a completely different person.
I'm undisguised. I'm in disguised.
Look after yourself, mate, Say thanks to the team at ten for organizing the chat.