Welcome back to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris, and on this podcast, I'll be going behind the scenes with the biggest players in television.
Kicking off today's episode. I think you.
May notice, but I have a cold. It's been a shocking week for me and the main piece of advice that I have for you all is lock your phones and don't bummdll celebrities in the middle of the night. Imagine the most famous person in your phone and then imagine you called them at an ungodly hour. I am simply mortified. This week in TV land, RuPaul's down Under has launched on stand and I'm super excited about what audiences think about that. So hit me up on Twitter and let me know your thoughts.
How do we.
Compare against the other international formats. I also want to recommend that everyone start watching Mayor of Easttown. It's on Binge and it's one of the best scripto dramas I've ever seen. It's stars Kate Winslett and you won't believe me until you've seen it, but it is easily her best role. Today on today's episod so I'll be chatting
with co CEOs at Eureka Production. These boys have taken their incredible knowledge producing shows on Channel nine ten seven a SBS plus Foxtelle and gone large by taking on
the world. In twenty sixteen, both Chris Culvinor and Paul Franklin co founded Eureka and with their position as co CEO, they have led the company to be a world leader in unscripted Today, Eureka Productions has launched over twenty fourth series in the United States, Canada and Australia, and in twenty nineteen the company produced over ninety hours of programming.
This year alone, we have seen shows like Holy Moly on Channel seven, Amazing Race on Channel ten making a big splash, and there is plenty.
More to come.
So let's get started with today's guests. It's Chris Culvinor and Paul Franklin.
As much as people say they might dislike elements of the shew we dislike the show, doesn't.
Mean they're not watching it. This is Holy molyy.
We obviously work with Disney on the Holy Molly format internationally and they were blown away.
Welcome to the Amazing Rights Australia.
The shows are only as good as the people making them.
They're some of the greatest stories that's in Australia and the history.
We try to empower people so that they feel like they've got a real voice in the room. When it comes to creativity.
We're all about carrying on in our dad's footsteps.
Crigy. It's the OI.
The truth is everyone at Eureka, and Paul and I included, are very passionate about the shows that we make.
Well Gooday, guys, how are you both?
Yeah? Very well, that's mate, How are you you good?
I'm really good.
But I understand that you two are the busiest people in show business, so I am so grateful for your time.
We never do this stuff. Yeah, you're the only person who've done something Eye is with.
So yeah, guys, we're doing the research for today's podcast. I spoke with a lot of the industry peers, and every single person I spoke to they said that you're both great to work with. People really admire you. They all want to work with you, which is great. Paul, is it a challenge or a choice to try and create such a fun but productive production space that crews want to work on.
Well, it's a challenge in the sense that you do want everyone to have a fun time, but you've got to get a big job to get done well. What we've found is especially in the Australian market because we make shows for here, but also the US, there's a attraction I think to work on fresh products, and I
think people get enjoyment and fun out of that. I mean, I'm inclined to sort of tell people when we make a new show it's like, well, I don't know how to make it either, So if you want to come on an adventure with people who might not know exactly what we're.
Doing, we could use your help. I mean, that's the secret to any people people involved. But we try to keep it fun. I mean, you know, the shows are what it's all about at the end of the day.
I mean, I think Chris and I are smart enough to know that it's actually the people that make the shows.
It's not just the two of us trying to work out how to make and we need a great.
Team around us, which we try to empower people so that they feel like they've got a real voice in the room when it comes to creativity.
And yeah, I think that's part of the pill.
Chris.
I can imagine trust as a producer is via. Do you find that creating that trust I guess with the talent on screen and the people that are working for you is important?
Yeah? Absolutely. I mean I think trust on every level is important. As you said, it's the trust of the broadcast or the platform that they have in Eureka, it's the trust that we have in our staff. And what Paul said then is the shows are only as good as the people making them, So a lot of what we do is attracting the best talent, nurturing the best talent,
and trying to foster the best talent. So there needs to be trust there, but equally, there needs to be an environment for people to really have a go and really kind.
Of prove themselves.
So absolutely trust is essential and key and certainly something I don't think we've had.
Any real problems with.
Because the truth is, everyone at Eureka, and Paul and I included, are very passionate about the shows that we make, and so that passion is really what drives all the sort of creative forces behind it.
Well, Chris, while we've got to there, just ask how did you Rica Productions get started?
So Paul and I had been working together almost for about twelve years prior to starting Eureka, so we'd worked at Fremantle Australia, Shine Australia, and then most recently we were both living in the States working for Shine America. So I was running development there and Paul was running programming, and our contracts both ended at the same time. We looked at each other and thought we'd been doing this for other people for a long time, sort of you know,
two sides of the coin. And we both knew we had very different skill sets, but complementary skill sets. So I guess, bravely or naively or stupidly, however you want to look at it, we just thought let's take a risk and let's go out on our own. And there's been huge amounts of learning in the last six years
of growing Eureka. There's been ups and downs ause. I'm sure everyone in this industry experiences, but really we started from you know, with Paul and I in a we work space six years ago and it was a company that didn't have any pipeline at all. We didn't have,
you know, a great big format in the bank. It literally was like, let's start with a whiteboard and let's start with the relationships that we had, and I think one of the things that we're really grateful for is, yes, we took a risk, but there's so many broadcasters and networks around the world that took a risk on us, and certainly we wouldn't be where we're at without that support and that belief as well.
You know, I was looking at the amount of shows that you guys are making at the moment.
And it's madness. It's actual madness.
Paul, in the last five years, did you expect that the business would grow so big so quickly?
Maybe not so quickly.
I think because Chris and I came out of big companies like Freemantle and AENEML, Sean and Sean America, and you get used to having the big corporate business with toys around you and access to a lot of support, I guess, and I think because we were coming out of that, it doesn't work like that. You do go back to pretty much a standing start, to Chris point, so you haven't got a big show in your back pocket that you know is going to generate money coming
through the door. So I think at the outset we probably had, we probably thought we would have done better in the first year or two, but it's a hard, hard grind. It might feel quick people on the outside, but it's been six years, so to us it's been a bit of a mountain the whole way. It still feels like a mountain every day. So so it doesn't feel as rapid as it might appear in a couple of sentences when you describe that way.
Nothing ever happens in a straight line. You know, when you read people's autobiographies, you're always like, Wow, these people just must have been really lucky. But you know, you delete so much space, you know, and the bits in between, you know, you just sort of keep it rolling. But you both have contributed to the landscape of television consistently
for your entire working careers. I like to ask, at what stage in your career did you realize that you know you've made it, Chris, what show was it for you where you thought, I'm good at this and I'm proud of the work that I'm doing.
I think every single show that you go into, I think there's a level of passion and there has to be. You know, you're right, like, we've both been doing this for a long time, and I think you can look at shows that seeing pivotal in your career. One thing that I look back on it I'm very proud of. It's not a show that I created or did anything like that. I worked with the Fantasies bringing The Apprentice to Australia and that show had never been done in Australia and it was a show that I was a
huge fan of. And you know, I worked with the CEOs of that company at the time to help bring it out and that was just an incredible experience of building a format from the ground up. And I remember Paul and I doing the first screen test with Mark Burris back in the day to try and find who is going to be that boss figure.
The team that makes the most money wins, get on Twitter, get on Facebook, get on the telephone, raise money for your charity. Of course, there's another side, there'll be a losing team. From the losing team, someone will be fired.
So that was a show that really out as a kind of a turning point in my career.
And then I think in terms of a show.
At Eureka that was pivotal to our success was a show we did for Netflix called Dating Around, which was an original take and a twist on the dating genre,
and it was one of Netflix's first unscripted shows. So from I guess a company trajectory point of view, that proved to the marketplace that not only could we execute shows, but we were able to come up with new takes on genres and original ideas, and that put us on the path for a lot of networks around the world trusting us with new ideas, and so that one stands out as well as an original show that was really defining for our company.
S Oh hi, are you Nick?
Yes, I'm nervous, but like I've never been on bline people before.
So me there, I'm like the bitty girl, but I've never done in drug and y oh yeah, I love them.
Oh my god, this conversation just took a really interesting turn.
Just to first Blaine Dads, who, well, what was it with your work?
I mean, Master Chef. I can imagine taking Master Chef overseas. That must have been a moment.
I mean, look, you, Master Chef's been very good to me, you know, having been there from the first series in Australia and going out to England and you know, researching it and working out the format and all the rest. And then getting like I spent six months traveling helping roll it out on the place like France and significantly in the US.
But when I think back, two shows stand out for me.
One is back in the nineties, I worked to Channel nine as like a field producer and I got to ask to work on a show called Changing Rooms, which not many people.
Would remember they might do from back in the day.
It was very, very popular at the time, and when I went for the job interview, I said I know nothing about home renovation. I like, I don't think I'm the guy, and they said, no, no, we've heard you get along long with people want you to do it. It was Eric Dwyer and David Barbert and David Barbat does block now. And I did the show and it did really well, and then I moved to London. It was like nineteen ninety nine and I was like, oh, well, I've done that show. I don't want to do that
show again. And I got approached by the BBC to make Changing Rooms for the BBC One and naively, I didn't realize.
Just how big the show was. And I tried to do other shows and what else have you gotten? And they said we really want you to do this show and I did.
It, and in England that was kind of a turning point because it was like, I think we're getting like fifteen million viewers on a Monday night.
You know, it's just massive. In the year two thousand and I was, I.
Was show running that and I don't think I quite realized until later just how big it was. But because of that, it opened a lot of doors in London for me. I lived in London for about seven years, so that was a really significant format. Interestingly, started in Australia, got to London and that's where it took off.
The flip of that.
The next show that which was pivotal for me, was Biggest Loser, because I did the Biggest Loser in England. I did the first series there and it was a nightmare. It was just like there was no budget.
It was had leaning on the show.
It was like eight episodes and it was I was literally geting up at five am, driving into the countryside, shooting waynes eliminations, grabbing the tapes, driving back at midnight and walking the edit the next day.
I was a really Skelton crew.
The reason that was SIGNIFICA was a really classic reality storytelling and that's where I really learned most of my chops in the reality space because I had to because it was a skeleton crew. And again it was at that time that the Mark and carf Fantasy or a Crackerjack rang me up and said we want to do it six nights a week, which is consider coming back to live in Australia. And that's when I came back, and so all the skills, the hard week that I've
done in London was down. Of course, that show, the first season was massive when it came out. They're probably the ones where I benefited immensely. And you know, Master Chef obviously is a significant product, but you know a lot of what Master.
Chef has was born out of learning how to strip a show, like we did with The Biggest Loser. That's where the basis of a challenge of night and all that sort of thing we did that in Loser and then and then of recent stuff, Holy Moley is kind of our biggest show, and especially in America. I just came back from filming season three and four, and yeah, the show is it's just it's just such a great show.
It's a real calling card for our company over there. So it's my favorite.
Some of the shows that are in production at the moment, like you know, Holly Molly USA and Lux Listening Byron Bays Full Bloom and Frogger. Just cherry picking two of these shows, Paul, can you talk to me about Froger? Immediately I thought of the Arcade game because that's my jam. I grew up in the eighties. So am I writer? Is that basically what that show is based on.
Chris was the one who had the idea for the show, so and he spotted the brand, and you should.
Answer this, yeah.
I mean, I think with the success of Holy Molly in the States, a lot of people were coming to Eureka and asking what was our next big physical competition show. And it took us a bit of time to find, you know, what it should be. And I was actually at MIP and I was walking past a Konami stand. Kanami are the publishers of the actual video game, and there was a big Frogger logo, which was they were
actually trying to pitch the show as an animation. But in that moment when I looked at this logo and I just saw that word Froger it just occurred to me, like, what a great brand, what a great platform for building an unscripted competition series from because very rarely does one word just elicit nostalgia, illicit fun, and you can almost envisage the show just by hearing that one word. So you're as exactly right. The show is going to be based on the video game, obviously, but it is like
stepping into an eighties video game. We're actually shooting that in Sydney and we've got two Olympic sized above ground pools that we're building with these incredible worlds based on the video game level.
It is possibly the biggest.
Unscripted show that's ever been made in the country, and it's really exciting to have the opportunity to make it in Australia with local talent, with local producers, for an international audience. We're very, very excited by the show and can't wait for the world to see it.
And then Paul I guess I'll go with you this time with lux listening. Is this an Australian version of Selling Sunset?
It is?
Yeah, it's got a bit of the Selling Sunset to it, you know, big characters, glamorous looks, it's a great way to showcase Sydney in the East and summers of Sydney in the real estate market. It's got a bit of that million dollar listening to it as well. But yeah, it is of that world as much as it is about buying and selling houses, it's about the people who exist in that world and how they operate day to day.
And you know, we're really proud of that show. It's really slick.
Amazon have been great partners on it in supporting it, like they've really backed it, and the marketing for it's going to be massive. It's a big swing for them, and I think I think you'd be pretty impressed how it showcases the city.
Yeah, and i'd just add to that.
I mean, I think where it's distinctively different from the shows you mentioned.
Is just the characters that we've found.
And I think the great thing about the sort of docu soap genre is they're really defined by the characters in the shows. So we've got three incredible agents which are obviously kind of unlocking this incredible real estate in the Eastern suburbs, and hand on heart, it's some of the most incredible real estate that.
I think has ever been seen on a TV show.
I mean, you can only imagine the sorts of houses that we can have a window into. And that's where I think this show will not only showcase the Sydney market to Australia, but I think the well will just be blown away by some of the property.
Oh yeah, being on set was I was in awe of some of the property.
If you forget how beautiful Sydney is, and I think that's a good point. The international market will just go, oh my god, because you know, we've there no expense on the visuals, you know, with the harbor.
As that backdrop, and Chris is right.
The agent's three agents that we feature are just compelling characters, you know as they go through the highs and lows and buying and selling houses and the people they interact with.
Well a little Bertie told me that the casting is so good on that show that there's some one person that's been cast that is like when you cast Generallyana on a Real Housewives of Melbourne, like just something really iconic and something really excited to look forward to. So I got no more details than that. I don't know if that person's male or female, but I did hear that it's some amazing casting.
Yeah, it's a plus talent and they're equally it's their talent who have been so open and generous with their lives. I mean, often, you know, you find people who are quite guarded, understandably so, but the three real estate agents who we're working with, they just like opened up their lives and it's a really compelling watch.
Stepping back just a little bit and thinking about you know, you guys sounding so Australian, Paul, was it really hard to crack into the US market the way that you did? I mean, you've made such a big splash with such an iconic show like Holy Molly over there, and I'm sure that there's so many people in Australia that would love to crack the US market. Was it hard to do that?
It's hard?
I mean, I think a lot of people ask advice in Australia out going over there and having a crack at getting a job over there.
It's a cliche, but it's the first job you get.
I think, you know, for Ozzie's if you're any good at the job you do.
Once you get that first job, you'll go places over there.
I mean the American market, it's a fun crazy it's having worked in England for a long time, it's not like the UK production market and business markets work and it's different. Again, it operates and when you dive in that river, you have to swim with it, you can't
swim against it. For producers and program makers who go over there, because Australians tend to be brought up through the ranks of you being a research or being a runner or whatever it might be to get to where they get to as a producer or a director, or they have a lot of strings to their bow kind of and the Brits have this as well in the States, and that's what they tend to do well there as well. The Americans are really talented, but they do tend to
have their one lane that they go to. So if you're good in the field, you're good in the field and that's what you do. Or if you're good at directing OSSI, they can go into an edit suite.
They can quite often write a script and then they go into the field and make it happen as well.
So for anyone who's thinking about going over there, if you can crack it and get in there, you love it, you'll really enjoy it, but it's hard work to get through. I mean, Chris and I were very, very fortunate when we first started China America that we kind of got dropped into decent roles within a production company at the time had biggest loser firing on NBC.
It had mastershef firing.
On Fox, and so we're already in an established company, which was you know, we're very fortunate, and I meant we could see the landscape and at our high level and understand how it worked. And then when we came back to it as Eureka, we kind of knew who all the players were. And when we're at Shina America, you know, cable was much much bigger. And now that we're in Eureka, you know, you've seen the streamers open up.
I think broadcast television in the US and the streaming services especially is you know, they're big clients for us, and a lot of the people that we.
Worked our way up through shows when we were in the States, they're our running those networks at a high level. So it's actually there's a group of people that we all know each other and it's helped a lot in having friends in the right places over there to be honest, but.
Look, it's a tough part to crack.
But I do think for people thinking of going and having go it, you should because it's an exciting one.
Were Eureka Productions is making a lot of shows for you know, Amazon, Netflix, some of these streaming services. Chris, is that about going to places and spaces where audiences are now more likely to consume content listen.
I think ultimately their new clients. So yes, obviously audiences are going to them. But the exciting thing about you know, Netflix starting to buy unscripted, or HBO Max starting to buy unscripted, or Amazon is it allows production companies to work with those platforms to come up with new, fresh, and defining shows. So we were really fortunate to have one of Netflix's first show with Dating around one of
HbA of Max's first shows with Full Bloom. And so for us, what's been really fun with working with those streaming platforms is trying formats and trying twists on genres which might not have been sort of as sellable to traditional broadcast networks in both the States and Australia. So with new clients, there's kind of new creative opportunities.
Now, I think.
We're seeing audiences go to these platforms and that's something that's going to be playing out for next ten plus years. I think is how audiences consume media differently. But for us, it always comes down to the creative of the show and the idea and the format where that show lives. To be honest, I often find and this sounds a little bit, it sounds a little bit odd, but the show often finds the platform or the network it deserves
to be on. And that's something like Holy Moley feels like it should be on ABC, while something like Wading Around I can't imagine anywhere else except on a Netflix because it is a little bit nuanced. So yeah, the show often finds the platform it deserves to be on.
Is there any chance like all of that when you stack that up, are you stepping away from well, is Eureka stepping away from Australian freedoware television network because there is more work in other places?
No? Absolutely not. In fact the opposite.
I've actually seen a resurgence of Australian broadcast networks taking creative risks and buying in big, confident ways to frankly, I think the rise at streaming network So you look at what seven, nine and ten have done over the last year. They're extremely strong slates and you know, taking creative swings that I think we haven't seen in some time.
So if we look at our business and we look at you know.
Who we sell for and who we create for, broadcast in Australia is a huge part of that and I think it will continue to it.
Thinks the nature of the world too.
Everyone's consuming things quicker, they're turning over into something new quicker. Whereas bigger shows could sit somewhere for a longer period of time in many years and return and return.
There's less of that going on.
It still does happen, and some networks having more luck with that than others. But there's a need to go, okay, this is how do we how are we going to cut through?
And I think because of that, creatively, they they've got to.
Go and take more swings at more more formats and more different products.
I think the industry in Australia's for production companies and producers and things is super super healthy.
I mean it's a struggle to get the eyeballs to free to wear obviously because and that's not Australia, you know, it's the same conversation that they're having in London and they're having in.
New York and LA And I was like, how do we get the get them in? And you know, I think the Austraine markets as busy as ever. You've see more and more shows, maybe sometimes short of lived. Well.
I think the ratings of free towear shows like Maths for instance, proves that, you know that there's ways to still have event television on free to wear.
I think there's some proof there.
But you know, Paul, does that say that the Australian market is tuning in for a particular type of content? Is that Maths show resonating? Is that the kind of content that do you think Australia is thirsty for?
I mean that show is human drama playing out and so I think that's why it resonates through.
I mean, you know, it's.
Truly some people say they you know, they love shows and then they say they hate them.
You know, it's a little bit.
We used to do research on one of our shows in the US, which was Master Chef for Fox many years ago, and they.
Were talking about heroes and villains. This is the whole Fox research department.
And they were saying, well, you know, people don't like this, this and this, and then we you know enough the conversations, like they were picking out certain characters, you know, in the in the cart but then the discussion and I was like, well that's fine, you know, and especially in America,
they want heroes in villains. So just because they say that ain't like Chris, who's one of the chefs on the show, It's like, well, but that's okay, you know, because people I don't like him, but I will watch the show because I like the push and pull of characters. And I think it's I'm not knowing if it's exactly that, but I think there's an element of that there. So as much as people say they might dislike elements of the show or dislike the show, doesn't mean they're not watching it.
It's the human moment.
Yeah, I think you're absolutely correct, And I think some of the things that we're the most repulsed by become the things that we're kind of we can't turn away from. It's kind of the car accident. But at the same time, if it represents moments that we have in our own lives and we feel represented on screen. I guess then it sort of comes alive, you know, and then you can't deny it.
I think you're right.
I mean, you know, the shows are moments. They are moments, and people see themselves in people.
I don't recognize it sometimes, you know, and that's where things are sticky for the individual and that's through their lens.
And they interpret themselves.
But I mean, Our Mass is a show that dominates in the ratings, so I think there's an audience out.
There for it.
And look, I think for the other shows that are out there that maybe aren't rating as highly, I think there's other places to find that. And that's where you got that little dilution a bit on what those viewers are looking for, so that they don't get that bigger net around an audience in that way.
So well, Chris, I want to ask you one of my favorite shows this year in Australia was Holy Molly, and my partner, who hates Freedoware Television, came in and sat down and watched it with me, and we watched like three episodes in a row, and I honestly think it was because We both are fans of Best in Show, which is, you know, a really funny movie, and I just felt like I resonated with that. So we just sat there and laughed like it was our sense of humor.
We loved watching people fall down. So it was like just everything came together. But why do you think though Holy Molly in Australia didn't resonate as much as it did in the US USA?
Yeah, I mean, I think it's always difficult to kind of quart a you know, Monday morning quarterback, why something did or didn't resonate.
You know.
I think in the States it ran one night a week, sixty minutes, and it continues to kind of be a bit of a powerhouse there. I think potentially, in hindsight, running it multiple nights a week but not necessarily having the arc through the series might have hurt the show. So if the shows once a week, I think the audience kind of are happy with it being closed ended. If they're watching it night on night out, they're probably looking for more of that arc, more of the soap opera,
like we were just discussing. So potentially that's one of the reasons I.
Mean I started jumping over it I mean, seven didn't amazing job marketing it, and I think that brought a lot of eyeballs.
Yeah, you know to the premiere of it, which was huge numbers.
But I think to what Chris is saying and going back to what you mentioned about Best in Show, Like when we sat down with the American hosts, Rob Riggle and his Color to Go called Joe tessitour who calls NFL in the States, and we sat down and we were in a tent on the site, you know, dust blowing through and all the rest we did. It's kind of table read and that's what we discussed. We discussed exactly.
You hit the name on. He Regle said, again, it's Best in Show. That's what we're gonna do. You know. So that was the plan, well well identified.
But also you know, Best in Show is a comedy, you know, so effectively.
Holy moly, it's a show about mini golf and wacky people and all the rest. Hit the channel.
We could have a hole in one here, what.
Do they get stuck in urinas and then the ball gets stuck on uranus here.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, No, I just didn't hear you say it again?
Please, Joe, please, this is wholesome.
It's a comedy show. So but potentially, you know, comedy stripped across multiple nights is hard, well, potentially a harder, harder thing to break through in a market whereas comedy often lives on one night a week. So that might have been a bit of it too, maybe, But I would say I'm so exxtremely proud of the Australian version.
I think the production team did an incredible job. I think Seven were incredibly supportive and to this day it is one of the shows I'm most proud of as a finished product.
I think it was world class.
And you know, we obviously work with Disney on the Holy Molly format internationally, so every other market has seen that Australian version, and some like it more than the ABC version.
I'll tell you that, like they were blown away.
By what was achieved in Australia, and so I think it's testament to the Australian team and to Seven for what went out there. And you know, we would absolutely love to do it again because you know, it got off to a huge start and sort of started to lose momentum at the end, but it certainly was something that we think was a really high class product.
Can you tell me if it's coming back? Are we're getting it next year a sequel?
It's still very much in discussion with Channel seven and we have a holy Moly hub up in the Queensland which many international countries play to shoot on as soon as travel opens up, and that is part of the discussions with Channel seven as well. So Channel seven, you know, loved the show, as do we and it's you know, really just about finding the timing and frankly budget to make it all work.
You know.
A lot was said about Australia's Denise Drysdale in her accident, but in the end it didn't really seem like much.
Can you set the story straight on Ding Dong?
Listen?
Denise is fantastic and she's been She was was such a great sport on the night and it was really unfortunate what happened.
I mean, honestly, I don't think there's there's much.
To talk about because it was shown on the TV show in its entirety, so I guess it was really unfortunate. She's been such a great sport about it. We've been in contact since and she's she's obviously now recovered and doing very well.
So I think she's just.
Such an icon of Australian TV, like she's she's just part of, you know, the heritage, and I think that's that's why I got so much attention.
She was like, oh you know what's happened to Yeah, she's a national treasure. It was she's been on stamp.
She's on Australian stamp before people have licked the back of her.
So I guess people get really.
And Bradbury got to do a Bradbury so ironically.
Yeah, at the moment, there's a mass shortage of good crew in Australia with so many shows being made. I mean, it's actually quite amazing that this is happening. Executive producers are struggling to find, you know, editors and production managers. Paul, you know, how are you coping with that?
I think, you know, it's fairly it's fairly on only we post I mean post shows for the American market in America, but we post shows here as well for the US market, so we have a lot of post production going on, and so from a staffing point of view, it is a challenge. You'll hit periods where it's harder to get people on board. But really I think it's just timing. I think there's just little areas on the on the calendar of the year where there's a bit
of a hot spot with productions going on. And part of the reason I think post production works for us in the Australian market is there's such a high caliber of producers and editors down here, especially in US. Even when I started Biggest Lose, it was a crackerjack. At the time, there was Big Brother and there wasn't that many. There was no stripped reality shows. I think Biggest Loser
was one. And suddenly you know, you've got six nights a week and you've got a lot of people who hadn't worked in that kind of genre before, and they are different shows, be a Survivor or a Big Brother now whatever, but it is that same reality space. And so over the last fifteen years there's a whole generation of skilled people who have been coming through.
And you're seeing it now. The people in the edits are getting younger.
And younger who are behind the controls and they're brilliant and they're all match fit. Because the industry here is stripping reality shows and unscripted shows. Unscripted is much bigger here than scripted is for the amount of content that's being churned out.
So there's a way even of.
The generations I say in the production space, especially in post production, that are really match fit, brilliant at what they do. And it's easy to say that and then you know, Monday, I'll go, why are we going to start on something? But actually people are out there and it's just a timing thing. I know people complain about it and stuff, but I know, I just get really encouraged went I see the people coming through who were an assist or a runner and something.
They're sitting in the editew, I know your face.
It's like you worked for your teen years ago in your coffee and now making shows.
That's it's enticing, you know, young people to come into this industry, which is an amazing industry. You know, like if publication was to come out and say something from the two of you about resourcing talent and enticing people in this industry, is there a message that you could say to them.
I can tell you something that we hold close to our heart at Eureka, and that is that we genuinely believe that Australia has some of the best creatives in the world, the hands down, and part of what we set up here at Eureka is we want to take those incredible creatives in Australia and showcase them for the world. And so what I'm getting at is like Australians can
absolutely play it a world class level. And what I would say to young people out there is, please, you know, this is a really rewarding, really creative hard Yes, but I think really satisfying job and career. It's not just about you know, showing your best to the country that you live in, but also potentially showcasing your skills to the world as well. And that's something you know, I'm
really proud of. Like, Holy Moly, America is one of you know, the most watched on scripted shows in the country that's edited by people in Saint Leonard's and that, and you know, I think that's really significant and something that I'm really really proud of.
Yeah.
I was talking to Jamie Wiggins the other day and he was, you know, they think about him. He's an editor who was editing the American Holy Moly. You know, that's amazing that that content's being captured overseas and sent home here to Australia to create jobs for young people who are passionate about what they do. I just think that's something really important.
Well, and not only that they've knocked it out of the park, you know what I mean, Like, not only have they got the opportunity but created something that's a phenomenon over there like that, and that's down to them.
And it's a significant one for us too, because when we went with season one being edited in Australia, you know, there was ABC were a bit okay, you know, this is ABC America and what We're going.
To edit a show in Saint Lanta's and Sydney. What's all that about?
So there was that they were a bit anxious to begin with, but when they saw the results, they were blown away.
And actually the industry over there people comment on.
The editing of Holy Moley and they don't even know it's edited in Australia, but you know, you get accolades for how it's a heavily edited show.
You know, it pops all over the place.
And that that's part of the reason why I think we've we've it's been a big part of why we aid any more shows down here, because it's like, wow, they can cut that kind of stuff in Sydney. My god, Yeah, okay, we don't mind if you cut it down there kind of thing. So we have been able to do more
more shows down here. But I think I think back to I used to do the Biggest Loser conferences and Mass Chief conferences and where they bring all the different formats together and as Ossie would be really arrogant.
Like, well, we've got the best version. You know, there's none of this US has got the best version or anything like that, and you do.
You know, and I think Ozzie have you know, we are competitive and for many years other always had thought. You know, even if it's a format from overseas, you know, it's like here's the American version.
Okay, they've got a bigger budget. Okay, we're going to make a better version of it.
You've got to go into it with that mentality, you know, you've got to shoot for the stars and at the very least you'll hit them, like you just got to go for it. If you say that to people, I go, yep, okay, we're going to make a better version than that. I don't know if we can or not. But if I say it, they might believe it and they might work, you know.
So I think it is good to be competitive though. I think competition in any industry is good.
And then you don't know where you're going to end up in it.
I remember at one point I just I was just obsessed with becoming a music video director.
I never have been and I never have done.
But at least I got in and went, okay, I want to I'm heading towards something. And I guess to anyone who's trying to get into the business, just get in there and apply yourself, you know, chase your dreams and have goals, but just say yes to whatever you know.
Do you want to come and do this?
Okay?
Just try different things, experience different things, and then you're your course correct.
You'll make the right decisions for yourself.
If you've got a positive attitude, you know, and the right work ethic, you can do whatever you want in this business. You can pivot and go into a different you can go from being the production side of things. You see it and people go, I want to be a producer, and sometimes they try producing.
Having been on the production management side of things, and they go, oh my god, this is horrible. I'm going to make to it, you know.
But it provides those kinds of opportunities. There's no degree that you get that says, right, this is what you're qualified to do, and that's it.
I think that's part of the excitement of the industry. Really, you're real. There's so many avenues that you can go down, and it's kind of hodly.
It's on you how much of what people say on social media reflect what audiences are truly thinking. Because I can imagine being in your industry where you know, it's commentated on by the general public and TV commentators and things like that. But quite often the comments that people make on social media doesn't necessarily reflect the wider opinion about something. So do you shut yourselves off from that?
Listen?
I think you have to be aware of social media, but I think you can't live and die by it either, because I think it's fair to say that a lot of social media tends to be negative. Very rarely do people go on Twitter and go, I really love this show. It's fantastic, it's perfect. In fact, I think the opposite is true. So I think you listen, you have to be responsive to what the audience is telling you back.
But I think you touched on the point. Is some you.
Know, some people on social media reflective of the true audience. I don't think it necessarily is. And you know, you kind of raise the point earlier about Maths as an example, where a lot of people are anti and a lot of people like I would never watch it, but you look at those overnight numbers and they're pretty significant. So I think it's a balance. I think it's fair to say when people are loving our shows on social media,
I'll relish in it and reread it. When they're not so favorable, I think it's.
Probably not so warranted.
So I think you have to kind of really believe in the show that you're making, really believe in the show that the broadcaster commissioned, and just make the best version of it.
And that's all you can do.
Stay true to yourself, I think, and stay true to the original idea. I think my last question that I ask everybody is interesting because I normally ask this to one person, but kind of put this together. Is there a funny story from behind the scenes of the two of you working together, something funny that happened behind the scenes of making television that stays in your mind that you tell people as like a funny anecdote.
There was one moment, and it was Paul and I together where we were actually screen testing Mark Burris for The Apprentice. We knew he had the goods, but we wanted to get it on tape to prove that, you know, he could command the boardroom and he had the sort of the presence of that boss.
So we had him, you know, at this boardroom set.
We had all these kind of cast members who were playing the roles, and he was, you know, really articulating all things you loved and things you didn't like.
And then literally we hear this bang.
Behind him and we're on this like I would say, forty story building and then you hear you hear a bang behind him in shot and then you hear it.
And there's a window wash out literally in shot behind him like squeezing.
On such capsules, yeah, on some suction cap ones on his knees, in his hands.
And the thing was Boris didn't break. So there, right, this is his test audition. He's ripped into people in the room. This guy is just going behind him like Spider Man just with this.
And like you, I mean, they didn't turn around and go you're fired.
But yeah, so, I mean that's an amusing story. And I listen, I think you know, being on the set of Holy Moly is just amusing into itself. I mean, I remember the first time we stepped onto the set in the US.
It's like this theme.
Park and you have Holy Moly testers. So you have these like brave individual souls who throw themselves into windmills and throw themselves off poles.
Because they love minigolf.
I still don't actually know why, but like just being a part of those worlds and seeing those super funny and super fun.
Like it's a pretty weird job, isn't it. One minute fashion show? It makes you beating people up with windmills.
Well, I just want to say to the two of you, you're both doing such an amazing job. I think it's so impressive to be able to see original ideas coming out, and I think that's something that the two of you can hang your hat on, is bringing original ideas and original content and making them exciting for television. So congratulations with that, and I just want to say thank you so much for taking part it's heavy reload and being able to share some of these stories.
No, thank you, and then you know, I think it's great what you're doing, you know, interviewing people in the business, and and so thank you.
It's been a pleasure. Thanks Ben, it's been fun.