Welcome back to TV Relo. This is another bonus episode featuring a quick chat with Holy Molly's favorite pirate, Ian Dixon Dicker, as we came to know him, landed in Australia with long hair, an accent, and more than a few opinions, but with a sense of humor and charisma that certainly outweighed any negatives. He was the so called nasty judge on Channel ten's Australian Idol, but resonated so deeply with audiences he quickly became one of the most
sought after television personalities over the last twenty years. It's probably a good point to mention my admiration for this man, as I certainly appreciate his raw, unfiltered points of view, especially in a world where people don't often tell you
their truth. Today we will talk about Holy Molly and why he said yes to dressing as a pirate for the newest show on Channel seven, but will also have an honest conversation about television and I'll find out if Channel seven has actually asked him to return to the upcoming reboot of Australian Idol in twenty twenty two. I'd like to welcome to the podcast The One and Only Ian Dixon.
It's funny. I'm not knocking myself when I sign a c great celebrity.
He's got about as much chance of winning this competition as I have of playing cricket for England.
I've got more ambition now than I've had in about twenty five years. Tell me about Dad I Dia. What do we know about it? What they've got a nostalgia for is the body count and the blood on the walls. I was actually one of the most famous people on TV at one point. If you present me with a TV show that's ludicrous, I'm going to be interested.
That's why I bought my idol.
Judge decided that he would start his own music festival. No guarantee that because it was an iconic television show eighteen years ago that he's going to do the business. Now.
How are you, mate?
Are you well? I'm really well. Yeah, I'm about to turn fifty eight and feeling every single one of those years at the moment.
And look it's still working, which is amazing.
It's funny. I've kind of found my level now. Ben dressing up as a pirate and chipping golf balls over a shark infestive ball. That's kind of me, and it's good. It's only taken me eighteen years to realize my worth for Australian television. But I look at that sounds snippy, it's not at all. I've realized that I had a really, really good long run on television for someone with no discernible talents really, you know, apart from you know, maybe
a quick tongue and honesty and a certain energy. I didn't you know, I don't sing, I don't dance, I don't act, but I've had a crack at all of those things. But yeah, look, I've realized that they kept me around for a long time, probably you know, a few years longer than I probably deserved. So I had no problem with the fact that the phone stopped bringing with regards to television, and I kind of changed my
life anyway. Mel and I left Sydney, moved to a small dairy town in southeast Queensland and life got a lot simpler. And then I ended up just kind of stumbling back into rock and roll. And I don't know how this happened. I was meant to be playing golf and bowls and making sour though, But now I'm in the office six days a week and we've got live shows up and we've managed six bands, So yeah, I should be slowing down. But actually, do you know what, I've got more ambition now than I've had in about
twenty five years. And I think when I was pretty successful on television, that's the one thing I realized it deprived me of, was my ambition. Everything was too easy and too rosy, and I just stopped being hungry. So I guess I'm grateful I've come around to that, even at the age of fifty eight.
You know, you talk about being a failed celebrity, being the C grade celebrity, which I always think is really quite strange. And I also think it's a bit of a laugh because you've actually been on nearly every show in the country. Are you just trying to mock yourself before others mock you? Is that just a part of who you are?
Oh? Of course, Celebrity is such an embarrassing word anyway, you know, it emasculates it and makes it bulletproof if you are give it the prefixed C grade celebrity an unseemly swelling of the ego, and we all forfell to it when we are on television and it is you know, it does give you a certain buzz and it's it is kind of addictive. But at the same time, you and I both entered television as part of the new wave of ordinary people that were allowed onto our screens
through reality television. And when I grew up addicted to television, I loved it. But when I grew up watching television, people on TV were celebrities, they were stars, and people like you and I were not allowed anywhere need TV screens unless we'd done something really bad on the news and were interviewed, or we were a contestant on a game show that was the only only available avenue for
us to be on TV screens. Then all of a sudden, it was deemed a great idea, probably through Big Brother in the UK or Holland as it was where it started saying that there's a massive vein that can be mined in real people being put in very unusual, high
pressure situations. So yeah, we were allowed onto TV, and I think as such, the idea of celebrity has been diminished somewhat, you know, I mean, I remember people being popped out of reality shows and even my show Australian Idol, having been in the public eye for a year and a half writing autobiographies, that to me feels faintally ridiculous. And that's what I guess. I always have that in my mind when I rail against the idea of celebrity and in the grand scheme of things, I think C
grade is a good level of self awareness. You know, Nicole Kidman is an A grader, Keith Urban's an A grader. I would say, you know, right now, maybe Guy Sebastian, he's probably be But I'd have to put myself under guy right now, and I'm happy to be under guy. I never thought i'd say that.
We'll ask his wife if he's okay with that first time.
So look, I know it's funny to grade yourself, but I think it's good to be. It's good to have some level of awareness. It's funny. I'm not knocking myself when I sign a C great celebrity. I'm kind of proud at that level. I think, you know, it's okay. I still get people still look at me and go, oh, you're you're that touchdown guy. Aren't you going well near enough?
Yeah, it's amazing how people's brains in Australia sometimes curdle because then they get things like that mixed up. I mean, Mark Holden's obviously the touchdown guy from that show. And I have people come up to me and ask me what it was like to be in Big Brother with Sarah Marie And I was on Big Brother, you know, like seven years after her. But people they change it in their minds.
Yeah, it's a big blomonge for them. And look that's fine. I mean, look that's our fault. I mean, you know, we ended up as an industry put in the same show on the same channel four nights a week, you know, I mean, how are they going to pick their way through that? I mean, imagine the absolute opposite of that is Faulty Terrors that only ever made twelve episode and
it's one of the giants. It's one of the absolute monoliths of TV history, and they made twelve episodes and you can pick every single one of those episodes and lines from within them. But we've created these big, blobby monsters that exist on our channels four nights a week because we think that's what we need to give the public. Plus all the other platforms. You know, it's no wonder that their brains are scrambled about.
What we've delivered, oh one hundred percent. You know what's interesting about you turning up on Channel seven for Holly Molly is everyone's like, oh, this coincidentally is happening at the same time as Australian Idol coming back and being on seven.
Mister Dixon, Hello that do you know what, Courtney?
If the drag scene was in a state of nine one one, I reckon you're the chick to save it.
I really do, and I think you're going to rule the drag scene. The question here is whether you can rule the pop scene.
You'd be forgiven for thinking it's a tease for you coming back to the show. But you've, you know, publicly come out and said, you who don't really want to go back to that show unless you were really tied to it being able to manage the person that comes out of that show. Don't you think you coming back to that format and promising to then want to manage these people afterwards seems like a more realistic show.
Well it does to me, but I don't think that's where television is these days. I think television is risk averse. And also when I first was on Australian Idol, there was no social media, and social media now is a twenty four hour war on flaws, so any person saying anything negative about anyone would be there'd be a flame war, you know. So I think that they like to manage.
I think the networks love to manage the to and fro that he said, she said between celebrity judges, and just keep it corraled in the studio in a controlled environment. I don't really think they want some lad math like banging off about someone and just having cancel. Culture come not on the door. Look regardless of anything. I don't know. I don't even know if it is coming back. It certainly seems to have dropped off all of the up fronts,
so I don't know if they've had second thoughts. I mean, to be honest, they should have second thoughts because there's no guarantee that because it was an iconic television show eighteen years ago, that it's going to do the business now. I mean, we all remember what happened with Hayate Saturday.
When that came back. They did a two hour special on Saturday night and it absolutely rated its tits off and everyone went whoa full series, and I think it had a really great first episode and then was on the nose. No one watched it for the rest of the series, and everyone in the network had wavy line smiles like the ABC logo, and we're really happy when it ended. There's absolutely no guarantee the idol would work if he came back.
I think though, that the nostalgia factor is obviously a draw card, and I think that's why James Warburton's like, you know, let's bring this show back. Nostalgia certainly can bring people back there, but if you stupefy the audience in any way, they drop off and hey, hey it's Saturday. As an example of that was brought back is hey hey it's Wednesday, and you know you're already changing the
way in which the audiences interact with it. I think nostalgia works for an element, and yes, you could bring it back and have them there on day not you know, on the first night out, But then to keep them there you have to be smarter these days. And that's where I think something that you said in the media, which I thought was powerful, was the fact that you
know you'd want to manage these people afterwards. And getting back to that, these shows we've been seen like you were there right on the ground floor, and that was that no one was following these people up and helping them have a music career. They kind of the show was over and all of a sudden they were gone. But I think modernizing it these days, you need to be there and say, well, we're in for the long haul. We're not just here to get the ratings and sell the advertising.
Well, that's a big call. Even back eighteen years ago, it was really tough call to try and get Grundy as they were then the TV production company, to give us the time and space to make these contestants stars. And I'm really proud the BMG Records at the time as a whole. Everyone in the company brought into the idea that we were going to launch one of these guys out of the cannon into the marketing and have
records selling releases, and we did. But that was the fact that we all we had to fight long and hard in the schedule to get these guys out of TV land and to write and record backing tracks for songs that some of them were never going to release, we took a real leap of faith and as a result, Guy's single was the fastest selling single of all time and Guys Album was the fastest selling album of all time,
and that still holds. And eighteen years on, he's a superstar, and so is Shannon, and you know, we got Ricky Lee, we got Jess Malboy. Lots of careers have come out of this show, and I think that's because because of the record company as much as the production company. But look, I don't know if they've got the patience for this anymore. Ben.
The one thing you talk about nostalgia, I hear what you're saying, but big portion of Australian idols allure was the fact that we traveled around the country and saw all these nutjobs turning up singing when they can't go and with my heart will take me I've got yeah, Michael, yep.
I'm not being rude, but that voice should come with a government warning. Was that serious attempt at being Australian idol.
They're not going to do that anymore, and so we're not going to end up with all these amazing characters who weren't that great at singing. But we're lovable idiots on the TV and fodder for some ritual humiliation. That's what everyone is really nostalgic about, because with that that you're not going to get to those big moments with climb every mountain and what about me? You're not Otherwise it's just a shiny floor sceneing show that means nothing,
you know, It's just like the rest. So if they're brave enough to bring back the ritual slaughter of innocence in places like Dubbo and Bunderberg, great, I think it's got a chance. But if they're going to sanitize it and just keep it squeaky clean, no one has a nostalgia for that because they can still get that now. What they've got a nostalgia for is the body count and the blood on the walls.
I was talking to paul Anie last week and paul Annie was saying that it was the rawness you know, which is obviously connecting to what you're saying. She was like, if the show comes back and it's to work, it is that it's less about the staging spectacular that you might see on the voice or you and the ability to make it feel like you from home could be those people. I think that's you know, I guess that's
the magic of reality television. Anthony Klea was an interesting one coming into series two because you know, obviously he was probably one of the best singers that was ever on the show, but you know he was struggling with his sexuality. Did you ever offer any advice to him at the time about you know, at that time, you probably couldn't be gay on television, you know, did you offer him advice.
That's not true or you you absolutely could be gay on television. Look, I was I probably went a little hard. We all knew Anthony was gay, right, and I remember saying to him, Look, mate, we're going to be your record company, and we can help you have the life you want to live and shag who you want and keep a public persona for your career if that's what you choose, if you want to keep it quiet. But it's good that we know because you know, you wouldn't
be the first person for us to do it. I mean, virtually every boy band ever was got one gay member. It's a rule. Every boy band's got one ugly one and one gay one, and that's the way it goes. So it's like it's not like it's not like it's our first fucking rodeo. But but he said, he was going, how very dare you? I am not gay? And look, he was a shame. But yeah, we gave him that option, but he wasn't ready for it. And look, do you know what, at the end of the day, it's not
it's not my job to out someone. I was trying to reach out. But the fact is that Anthony, I think, had a different set of challenges for his coming out. He had a quite a conservative Italian family with an old nonna that probably, you know, he would have felt very self conscious about people come to this realization in their own time. And look, and I know I've got enough gay mates, many many gay mates. A lot of
them look down on guys that won't come out. And I know there's a militancy and there's there's a real militant faction in the in the gay world. You know about guys who come to come to this late. But you've got to give everyone a chance to live their own life and get to where they want to be at their time. So you know what, we did reach out. I was probably a bit forceful on a couple of times with Anthony, and that's probably something I should not
have done. You know, it's no one's business. Really. I thought I was being helpful, but Anthony really, you know, needed and deserved the opportunity to get to who he was in his time frame, not mine.
You know, you and mel as in your wife sitting there watching Anthony and Tim do those YouTube videos now where they're miming to things. Have you seen any of that?
No, I haven't seen any of those, actually, But I love because Tim, Tim's a matter of ours as well. Me and my partner David, We used to manage Tim as well. Tim's a really unusual gay guy. Tim's a real knock about, sort of Campbelltown guy, you know, he's a real sort of Westy and he's real sort of knock about. And I never would have put those two together in a million years. I never would have thought they'd be. But they've turned out as one of most fabulously successful power couples, you know.
You know, going back to sort of the how it all started with you with being sort of villainous, do you think that honesty still comes across as being the villain?
I don't see an awful lot of honesty on television, so I'm not really able to answer that. Certainly, in reality television, I see people performing a script very very well. The villains in Married at First Sight are the classics these days. They're the people that you love to hate these days, I would say. But even then, Look, do you know in Australian Idol two we had people turning up to audition knowing the script. You're never going to have the wonder of the first series ever again, Yeah,
everybody knows. I like on My Kitchen Rules or Married at First Sight, everybody knows what you need to do to be that person. I mean, look at you were an odd one because you were a little bit of a little bit of a villain, weren't you. Well you were, but a lot of it, you know what there was. You know, we loved you because you know, there was a sharp tongue, cattiness and an honesty in what you did on Big Brother that really spoke to me. For me,
I felt that was eminently watchable. But there was a sight of me that I still felt that you knew what you were doing, but I didn't feel it was not genuine. I just thought it was clever and smart, and I don't know that these days it's just as long as you've got the big fish lips and the big iron makeup and you can give a bitchy look, you're in. You know, it doesn't take an awful lot to be an arshole on television these days? Is it when we were lads. When we're lads, we really actually work.
But I think it's about being authentic. And I think that's maybe why people are turning away from television in some ways, is that if you aren't being authentic on television, people are wise to it, so they switch off. Where I think you can be a good person or a bad person, but as long as you're being authentic, audiences
will connect to you. And the closer that we've come to making TV look like Ruth Bereford's latest film and making it all so tight and squeaky clean, we lose that opportunity to feel seen on screen.
I think, Look, I think you're right for me. It's if you head for the humanity in any situation, then it's going to be watchable and compelling and most the problem there for free to air television is most humanity is nuanced and complicated, and that doesn't always work for television.
If you've got a really smart producer and set of editors who understand how to create that narrative and retain the authenticity, you know, you can show those nuances and those complexities and those gray areas where most of us live. But unfortunately a lot of lazy producers just regard reality as life with all the boring bits taken out as they perceive it. You know, they just give us this either massive sugar hit or a see splash of acid, nothing in between. And I don't think people live life
like that. So yeah, I think when you've got great, smart producers you understand how to portray a nuance, that's when it gets really interesting.
No, I don't necessarily know if we do, but I think that'll be the problem with worrying about the ratings for tomorrow versus whether or not people are going to still watch free to wear television in years to come. You might continue to chase those ratings for the short term, but whether or not that's going to pay off in the long term, I think it's going to be the is where I see the problem. But you know, that could be just me. Have they actually asked that's the question.
I don't think anyone's asked you so has seven wrung you and said would you come back and do Australian idol?
No?
No, because that's the one thing that I'm like. You know, so many people were talking about it coming back and they were like, would March come back? With Mark Holton come back? And I had actually interviewed a few with executive producers who you know, could be working on this show, and I was like, it's really interesting. I think if they need to have one nostalgic person brought back, I think it'll be you. And I hope you say yes.
It's very kind of you to say that. And as I said, I would consider it, but the only reason for me to do it would be was if I was going to work with the winner, because I still think the most powerful sentiment that I could on Idle was I'm not saying you couldn't make money out of your voice. It's just that I can't make money out of your voice, and that in that really mundane sentence,
it shows that's what we're about. You know, there's a lot of weekend singers out there who are fabulous and if that's all they ever want good on yet, but it takes something really special, you know. I always work with artists with three criteria in mind likability, ambition, and talent in that order, and you get to see all three of those on a process like idle, you know, because when someone walks in a room, you get a
sense of their likability, you can smell it. With regards to their ambition, you start to get an idea over the different rounds as to whether they can apply themselves and whether they've got the the real gumption to give it a go. And then finally you discover whether they have any real raw talent, you know. And I think most of those guys who've who've done well, you know, follow that code pretty closely. Yeah.
Absolutely, How did Holy Moly come about? How did they get in contact with you about this show?
My manager David rang me up and said there's a TV show. They want you to dress as a pirate and play golf. And I went, sure, you haven't heard of what the TV show is yet, And I said, well, I don't need to know. That's perfect because it's ludicrous if you present me with a TV show that's from
the outset ludicrous. I'm going to be interested. The ones that I'm going to be worried about and allman are about are those ones where you've got to pretend, the ones where you've got to pretend you really give a shit about what's happening, and and's't. It's like sex with no strings, Holy Molly, it's just good fun. And and you know you're not going to have to phone anyone the next day and tell them why there's not going to be a second date. It's perfect.
Are they already asking you about the second series? Because in America they call it Holy Molly, the sequel.
Holy Molly too, the sequel colon, the special colon on Hiss Part one and two? Exclamation point?
Are you going to dust off the pirate outfit and come back and do it all over again?
Oh?
I might have to get it dry cleaned myself. And now were giving it a bit of a workover on Valentine's Night. So no, I think I don't even know if there will be a second series. It looks it looks kind of expensive. Look if they did, yeah, why not? Why they will not? It's you know, it's it's what It was literally very short shoot for me and a short drive. It was in Brisbane.
Do you think we're still as fascinated with celebrity as much as we used to be? I mean, do you think that we've diluted that? Do you think we're going to still see people going into the jungle and eating crocodile's legs and or running around Pitt Street Mall on Celebrity Apprentice. Do you think the fascination with celebrity is still as potent as what.
It used to be? No, I think I think we've completely watered down that concept. I think I think people need to actually achieve something now. People need to actually, I'm not all of that needs to be nourishing or constructive. You can do something absolutely horrendous, but you've got to do something. I think. I don't really think you can just be anymore. Can't just you can't just light up
the screen and expect that to travel. I think you've actually got to produce something wonderful or horrendous, but you've got to produce something. Well.
It's just been so fantastic to be able to have this chat with you. It's so amazing. Thank you so much for being able to chat about this and good luck with Holy Molly.
Thank you lovely to see Benny, and I'll give you a little squeeze when I see you in real life