It's in the news today, but it was actually on TV Reload, the podcast last week thatdline. Welcome back guys to TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris, and on this podcast I go behind the scenes with the biggest players in television. Each episode you will get a front row seat with content makers like executive producers, writers, editors, and casting agents lost the talent that we see on
our screens. TV Reload reloads the shows that we're all currently watching and gives you a better insight into our television industry and our streaming services. Today on the podcast, I have my final guest of the year. Thank you so much for listening. It is one of my favorite actors ever, a household name and an award winning TV and film actress. It's none other than Claudia Carven. Claudia started out in films working with the likes of Gary
McDonald and Judy Davis. Growing up in front of the cameras. We saw her work in The Big Steel and The Heartbreak Kid, but it was her role as Alex Christiansen in the television series Secret Life of Us that had audiences mesmerized. It was a great turn of events working with the writers like Judy mccrosson and Christopher Lee, and the series saw her collaborate for the first time with
John Edwards, a genius storyteller and producer. John Edwards encourage Claudia to work as a director and a producer, and they soon collaborated on a TV series called Love My Way, which was a series for Foxtel that still has a massive cult following even though they only did three seasons. That series is one of the most powerful, impactful and inspired stories ever brought to the small screen and we
will get a chance to talk about that today. With shows like Time of Our Lives, Puberty, Blues, The Other Guy and Spirited, we've been gifted a catalog of characters, each as real as the next. Today we will talk about all of her roles in these iconic shows. We will get a backstage pass to reasons and rationales of most of her legendary performances. The new series Bump is out on Boxing Day on STAN Australia, which is their
best series yet and I promise you that. However, let's get started on today's episode as I welcome Claudia Carfon to the podcast TV Reload.
That is what acting is acting, is listening and responding.
Maybe it'll be different to how you thought it would be, but you'll make her work.
I love Alex and I love working with deb Mailman and Samuel Johnson.
I share a flat with Alex, and we're pretty much opposites.
I'm very confident that Franky from Love My Way is living a beautiful life and she's feeling strong and loved somewhere. Hey, Mammie had me in a hospital. Heay. Name is Francesca Page and she's an excellent mum and an excellent painters man. Tonally, it's the same show, but we moved into different territories.
Please welcome Claudia Carvin on, but.
We empower our actors.
Hi, Claudia Carvin, how are you?
I'm very well. How are you?
I'm doing so well. I'm so happy to be chatting with you after doing two hundred and five episodes of this podcast. No disrespect to any of my other guests. This is the kram Della Creme for me.
Oh that's too nice, that's way too kind.
Well, you consistently and have been one of my favorite actors, and no matter what role that you've played, I've always been genuinely mesmerized by the way in which you make your characters seem real.
Well, that's a lovely, lovely review. I think the sort of responsibility that comes with performing is that you do want to, you know, pay homage to us as humans and as fallible people and to humanity in general. I guess you sort of don't want to present the sort of fake version of life. Really is my sort of motivation anyway, and that's my instinct. That's why I really
love watching documentaries. I love watching people when they're not when things aren't scripted, and I actually watch a lot more documentaries than I do drama.
I think the reason for doing that, though, is, I mean, you're studying real people. What you're trying to tap into is the nuances of real people.
That's right, And yeah, that's that's me. I'm just always studying, always working.
I think of all the characters, I think of all the characters something that you have in common. And it was funny yesterday I watched a whole chunk of Secret Life of Us. I watched a whole chunk of Love my Way, and all of these women that you play was so extraordinarily different. But the one thing that you had in common with all of them was that you made them curious, you made them intelligent, and I think that's the currency of your performance.
Ah, that's really lovely. Oh wow, Well, I think I just set out to make them feel layered and as you say, nuanced and in the moment and aware of their environments, and you know, and blinded by certain things as well. There's always blind spots in us. But intelligence is great because I don't know, you know, you never know if that's that's a lovely thing to get feedback on.
I think curious is really interesting because you make them always seem in Ga and I you know, I remember meeting you at the Logis and this was such an odd moment and you kind of looked at me like, oh god, this guy's crazy. But I was telling you that if ever I felt like nervous or worried, I would pretend to be Claudia Carbon and I would do this in the doctors. So like, you know, you go to the doctors in my twenties and you'd be like,
I don't want to talk about this awkwardness. So I would slip into you know you, and you were like, I don't know if I've got that many nuances like what are you doing? It sounds so ridiculous. That's why I'm so glad.
I'm totally I totally remember this conversation. Now, that was the bizarrest thing anyone has ever said to me on a red carpet. Yeah, I can't work at I don't know what my idiosynthesies are and how anyone would recognize them will repeat them. But that is hilarious and so beautiful. I love that. I think you said it was something to do with the hesitations or the pauses or whatever. Anyway, I shouldn't analyze what I do, because no, it is.
That's exactly what it is. It's but it's also you're listening. And obviously I don't know you as a person, so I'm only going by the performances that you've had and with these characters, no matter who they were, and as I said, they're all vastly different people. But you could see your characters listening, and that's a form of intelligence because you're making sure you listen to what people are saying.
That is what acting is. Acting is listening and responding. That is what it is, and that's when you you know, in the early days when you start acting, they say action and all you can hear is the blood pumping in your ear drums, that's all you can hear. You can hardly breathe, and you're swept away in this sort of panic and you're just getting through the scene. That's what happens when you're younger and before you sort of just once you realize, actually, all I have to do
is be here and listen and receive. And I can't listen and receive if my blood pressure is going crazy and I can hardly breathe. And it calms you down and it centers you because you're putting all your energy into the other person. You're not thinking about yourself and what you're doing. And it's great to take that into life as well. It makes life a lot easier to get through, and you know, you avoid those sort of anxious as often as possibly, sort of avoid that sort
of panic or anxiety in your own life. But did you watch the actors this year? Yes? How funny was Chris Hemsworth's speech about how he ripped off Russell Crow and he built a whole career pretending to be Russell Grow and doing the deep voice with gravitas. And then Barry was on set with Russell Crowe playing Zeus and he's like, Russell Crows probably thinking why is this guy playing Russell Chrome? So funny?
That is the strangest thing that you're saying that Because that was what I didn't want to do today, and because I've been ripping you for a good part of twenty five years, maybe longer, I just was like, what happens if while I'm talking to you today, I start doing you back to you?
So basically you're having a Chris Hemsworth moment. That's pretty good.
This is my Chris Hemsworth moment.
That's gorgeous. It's so funny.
Of all the characters that you've played, though, I still think about most of them, and I still feel as though they would still exist, do you think about them? Do you think about a lot of these characters you've played and wonder what they would be doing now?
Oh wow, what a beautiful question. Frankie. I'm very confident that Frankie from Love My Way is living a beautiful life and she's feeling strong and loved. Somewhere. Alex is probably running a hospital by now, total perfectionist she's probably just killing it. Probably internationally, she's probably running some scientific medical health company somewhere or platform or something saving people's lives. Caroline from Time in My Lives is probably She's probably been scheduled by now.
I'm just hoping she's still with Tommy Little what was that character's name again. He was so hot in that show. I remember watching that show thinking because he was relatively unknown to me when he was in that series, and you guys just had really good chemistry, and I just thought he was so sexy. So I'm hoping Caroline's there.
I think he would have. I think he would have woke up one morning and gone, I think I need to get out of this relationship.
She was kind of a gross character at times, so I mean, she exists in the real world and we meet that woman. I mean, we've all met that woman, but she kind of was a very different person to who you'd played before because she was so unlikable, That's.
Right, which is why I took the role. In the end. I mean, it was Amanda Higgs and Judy m Across and the beautiful Crap team from Secret Life of Us, so I had a great relationship with them. And they offered me the role of Caroline. They sent the scripts through and I was like, oh, this is oedious, She's ogius and I was like, oh, no, I don't think so. I don't think I want to play this role. Sorry, And then I was sort of then a couple of days and I was like, I cannot stop thinking about
that woman and why does she behave like that? And yes, you're right, they exist in real life and you come across them and you can't get away from them quick enough. They just sort of sap your energy somehow. But then I was like, I want to. I want to understand that woman, and I want to make sense of those scenes and I want to I want to investigate that attitude to life and what is it like to live in that headspace? So I was like, actually, can I take the role. I have not put it to someone
else yet, have you? I want to. I want this character to surprise me, and I want to try and find the empathy or are crazy like that?
But you did? I think you did put things into that woman as time went on of that show into series two, and I felt like, if we had a series three, I think you did humanize this Karen woman. Do you know she was a Karen before we'd call them Karen's. Do you know what I mean? Anyway, we like people are probably not as familiar with that show as I am. I've rewatched that show so many times that my partner of thirteen years he comes home and he's like again again, and I'm like, I will rewatch that one.
But it was an interesting show and that it's sort of you weren't really aware of the power of that show when you read it, because I felt like, well, this is just life, this is what we're all living. So it didn't feel that extraordinary to me, and then you watch it on screen, you go, oh wow, why am I crying all the time? How is this so powerful?
Until you see your life reflected back at you and what you're living in this period of parenting where the rules are so specific and so generational, Until you see it reflected back at you, you can't sort of process it. And I found it incredibly powerful and moving that show. I thought it was so sad that the ABC didn't order it for a third season. And you know, I also loved working with my one of my oldest and bestest friends, Justine Clark.
What I was going to ask you, though, is about stepping back with Secret Life of Us. You know, that was a really interesting move for you in two thousand because you were really known for your movie roles. I was wanting to know, you know, why did you say yes to that show? Because you know, now it's really common for movie actors to be on television. It's like you were ahead of your time, but that wasn't the
case in two thousand. So what was it about Secret Life of Us that made you go, oh, I'm going to make the move.
Yeah, that's right. It was a really big decision and I'd only done TV long running TV once before and it was a train wreck. It was a Louis Auers series for the ABC when I was in year eleven, with Kate Fitzpatrick and Nel Schofield and Paul Chub and had all the recipe for being a great show, but it just tanked. And it was just immoralizing to be stuck on a show that just was not getting an audience and no one was watching it, And so I
sort of vowed to never do that again. And then yeah, the Secret Love of Us script came along, and my Robin Gardner, who'd been constantly saying, no, you're never doing TV, No, you're never doing TV. That's you know, she's she recommended that I do this, and I was like, oh, this is a change of tune. And I was a bit skeptical. And then I read the script and I asked to speak to Amanda and Judy because I was like, I don't understand. I mean, I was like twenty I think
I was twenty eight or something like that. I was like, I don't understand, Like, how can this really smart, successful doctor be so crap with men, you know, be so useless in relationships because at that stage, you didn't see characters on screen that were sort of contradictory. They just didn't exist. Like TV writing has evolved to such an extraordinary degree, so I think it's such a sort of
naive question. Now it's like, well, why would you want to see a doctor on television who's also smashing it in relationships? And this is perfect communicator with the opposite set. So they sort of explained that to him and I was like, oh, yeah, okay, that's sort of interesting. And then I just I didn't sign on for a long
period of time. I just said lookol again hilariously naively, I just said to John Edwards, oh, look, I think I'll just do four episodes and then I'll see if I want to keep going, which now I'm a producer, that's just impossible. And I've often said to John it's like, how did you agree to that? And he's like, oh, we just took a punt. We sort of knew you'd love it and you'd stay on, and so they did. They took a punt, and I loved it. I loved it. I loved Alex and I loved working with dev Mailman.
I mean, she's just one of She's a national treasure and just an extraordinary actress. And Samuel Johnson, who's just he's like a young Ben Mendelson. He's such a live while so beautiful to act opposite. So it was just a gift, and it was like really interesting because it's it was a solid long jobs. So as an actor, it was like six months work. You feel like a real person having a real job, you know, going to
work every week. And the audience response was like I never I'd never had a you know, I had never had a response like that. We go, oh wow, the work we're doing, people are actually watching it and talking about it. You go, oh, this is why we at because we would like people to entertain people and actually resonate with an audience. And it happened.
So people were flying over to live in Sint Kilda from England, Like that's what, that's the phenomenon. I'm a Melbourne person and I spend at that particular point of my life that I was the same age as those characters, so we were in Sint Kilda living that life.
Did you resent us? Did you feel annoyed that we were ruining Saint Kilda a bit? Because it sort of it did go through a major gentrification, didn't it after the show? Like they even had it on the real estate for sale come and live the Secret Life of Sint Kilda stuff?
Because I love television so much. For me, it just electrified the experience and I enjoyed the whole Oh well, this is kind of what we'd be doing for on Secret Life of Us. But I did have other friends who weren't television obsessed like me and did feel like it was a bit of an intrusion of their secret world.
And that's what they felt like it was because sink Kilda is sort of where the super rich met the super poor of the time, and I think that's why the show electrified like it was even when it came back on I don't know if you read about this, but when it came back on Netflix, all these young people were watching it, and I was so shocked about it because they if you rewatch Secret Life of Us,
there's no phones. Like there's an episode where Samuel comes home as Evan to look for you and he has to go to all of the places where you may be because he can't just call you on the phone and he just keeps turning up at the fubah and he's like, as Alex come back in here. By Now, that would just never happen. Now. Younger people would be thinking, what is wrong? Why is any on his phone? Why is any on his Apple phone?
It's quite romantic. Yeah, I know a lot of people have watched it. It's really stood the test of time. I was like, oh no, I did so much bad acting in those first few episodes, like oh no no. But I had a little flick through it and it's beautiful and it's a beautiful show.
Have you gone back and watched episodes of it, have.
You, Yes, Yeah, I did. I did. It was so bizarre. Yeah, such a time walk, Yes, and you sort of get a little bit more objectivity because of the time that's passed. Yeah. I really appreciated the writing and some of the most amazing directors cut their teeth on that show, like Kate Shortland,
who's gone on to didn't she direct a Marvel film recently? Yeah, and then Tony McNamara was on that and he went on to do the great and the favorite you know, extraordinarily talented people who were just starting out in not for years.
The way in which the writing was so snappy for Secret Life of Us at that particular time was unbelievable. That show was in aging people in a way that has never happened since. I mean, why haven't they made a show about twenty somethings living in an apartment building like that since then? I mean, there's been nothing with that writing. And as successful as Secret Life of Us was of that time.
Was was Wonderland a bit in that sort of territory.
I didn't know Wonderland was, Like the writing just wasn't at that same level, Like it just wasn't and everyone wanted Wonderland to be, you know, the next Secret Life of Us, but nothing has ever been done like Secreal Life of Us. Those characters were given a lot to do. They tackled things that I think producers might worry if that subject matter is, if you're allowed to tackle that sort of stuff on television, you know they'd be worried.
Yeah, well, it's interesting, I think given the time period, and also because I know Amanda hit so Well and Christopher Lee Now and Judy mccrosson and John Edwards now are the four core team that were the four creators. And now I know I've created shows and I've produced shows, so I sort of can detect. I can sort of see that you could sort of pull apart the engine, I guess. And so when I went back and watched Secret Life of Us, I was like, oh wow, Oh
I can hear Amanda Higgs's voice and that storyline. Oh I could hear Judy maccosson's voice and her influence over that show. It was just so clear. You know, I don't know if you have met Judy macrossen or interviewed her, but she's one of those people that just has no filter. There is no small talk. She just goes straight to the heart of the matter. She says the most outrageous things. She'll sort of say out loud what you might you know,
keep in your head. And it's that bravery and that you know, when you set that tone in a story room, when you're talking like that, then other people start talking like that, and that's when the good, intimate and truthful and authentic personal stories come out and you put them through the TV filter, and then they make great television, great great episodes, great characters.
I thought it was also clever because it provoked conversation amongst everyone that watched it. You know, I think it allowed you to see these people talking about things. I mean, September eleven happened, and they you know, the characters were talking about September eleventh. And then I think afterwards, you know, hearing these fictitional characters talk about it with integrity and
intelligence and even politics. You know, that was even tackled in a way that I thought was well ahead of its time, and I don't think that's ever been done. I mean, there's some dialogue I saw yesterday where one of the characters, Jason says, you know, no one admits to voting for John Howard, and I thought, well, that's you know, that's a bold decision to make in television, because you may alienate your audience by having someone make
such a stance. But then afterwards, I remember sitting around talking about it at the time and being like, well, did you vote for John Howard? No one admitted to it?
Correct, Yeah, I mean my character Alex talked about Palestine. You know, like no one's brave to talk enough to talk about Palestine. It just doesn't happen. So that was pretty incredible.
Yeah, and then Jason's partner Aleis Gana, Yes, she ends up saying horrific things after Alex talks about Palestine. I don't know if you remember that.
Why they become a target in the first place.
Don't tell me talking about israelis the Palestinians are terrorists.
You don't really expect the US to support them doing what your Palestinians have And anyway, that's exactly my point. The US totally support is Russia and they always have.
But I remember being like, how is this on television? But these people really exist, and you know, there are ignorant people in real life that would say that kind of stuff. I mean, I don't think we're supposed to like her character. I think that was on purpose. But anyway, we're delving way too deep into Love My Way is one. It's my favorite TV show of all time. Nothing's ever touched it. I never forget watching that show for the
first time. There was four fictitious characters in you know, these characters in the first season who were so flawed they were kind of almost a bit unlikable. I don't know, how did you feel working on that show, you know, because this was your first time co creating, co producing, you know, were you trying to do something particularly different with Love my Way that hadn't been done on television before.
Well, the genesis of that is that I directed a block of Secret Love of Us and Ammanda and John let me do that, which was incredible. And then John took me aside and said, do you want to create a show with me? And he's sort of pitched, you know, how about we do a spinoff show you and Rex Alex and Rex. I'm like, no, I don't feel like doing that. Then we were sort of like some sort of crime show. And then I was like, what I really want to do is I want to do something
in Sydney. I don't want it to be in a studio. I wanted to be all on location. So I want to put all my sort of film values into TV. So it's we treat it like it as a film. We're not going to treat it like it's TV, which means the production values. You want to have more sort of mizen scene you want to have, you know, you want to be able to see people walking out out
the window. You want to see people walking around the park, or you want some wind or that makes a big difference to the feeling and also acting in those environments. And it has been Sydney, and I wanted to be around being in your thirties and the legacy of past relationships because I was a stepmother at the time, you know,
dealing with flip families. And then John put together an amazing writers room that had Brendan Carroll and Jacqueline Persky, Piana Siries, Tourny, mac Namara Loofox, incredible voices and you know, all the facets of human nature were in that room. And I guess we were just all very strong minded and we just wanted everything to be authentic. And my greatest fear when we were making it was is this just sort of middle class naval gazing? Is this going to be the moor And show? And no one will
watch it? And so the only comfort was like, wow, well it is sort of our lives and it is what we think and how we feel, so we'll just go with this. But yeah, it might just be naval gazing. So I was pleasantly surprised that people sort of responded to those, you know, authentic voices. We all sort of were vulnerable and stripped ourselves bare, I guess, and put everything up there and yeah, unlikable, and then it's you know, gets studied at the aft RS, the scripts get studied
and we won some award. I don't know, ten years after it was when it was made, and it still gets sort of talked about. But it was during the time where HBO had just launched, and so there were shows like The Sopranos, and that was the beginning of you know, a lot of the writers in Hollywood had
realized they'd lost all their power. They would get a production up and then there's script would be overwrited by a famous director or a famous actor or both and the writer would just be sort of a third class citizen. So what happened in the genesis of storytelling is all the writers gravitated to HBO and similar platforms because the shows were being run by writers and the writers were being respected. And that's what we did on Love My Way.
It was very rightle led and writer respected, and that's that's when you get good story.
Well, Frankie was so well crafted. I mean she was. She couldn't have been any more of a different character to Alex from Secret Life of Us. And you know, both Frankie and Alex are different to you, you know, Claudia Carvin. But you know what was it that you enjoyed the most about playing this woman? About playing Frankie?
See, yeah, see I find that really weird. I look at Alex and go, that is me. And I look at Frankie and go that is me. And you're going, oh, but they're so different. Oh, I see them as the same person. I mean, yeah, I think almost every job I do, I like my character and bump, I go, well that's me. I pretty feel like sort of every job I do, go yep, I'm just playing myself.
This is my version of it.
You know.
I'm just one punter that watches your work, you know, so this is my opinion of it. So I can't speak for everybody, but I could not think of Alex and Frankie being like they were just worlds apart. I mean, I kind of imagine Frankie, Alex and Caroline even sitting together having a conversation like they would hate each other.
They totally can. I just think it's that's what human beings are. We have all those people inside us, all of them, and that's why, you know, you can empathize with people and connect with people, and they all exist in us. We got them all in there.
I mean I watched those shows and thought, oh, I can relate to Alex, And when I watched Frankie, I was like, I can relate to it. So I mean, yes, they are relatable, and I think you're right, all those characters are in us. I just felt like they were vastly different. But was it harder to get networks to understand a show like that, you know, because the subject matter was quite bleak at times?
No, not at all. We had a wonderful woman called Kim Vettra who was looking after us. She was our commissioner, and she totally got us. In fact, I would credit her with pushing the time further. Like I remember Jack Lon Percy coming into the room and we'd already created the show and we were up to episode six and she walked in and she said, oh, I think we should kill Lou, and we all just bawled our eyes out.
And it was sort of weird because I was like, oh, wow, we're just plotting this episode where Lou was doing a family tree school project. Oh, starting to feel emotional. Oh, this is just so awful, and I sort of I was like, yeah, okay, we all went yeah, that sort of makes sense, you know, structurally, to pull the lynchpin out from this world. She is the one that's uniting all these people, so what happens when you pull her out?
So it made sense on a narrative level, But me the actor in the room, in the back of my mind, I was like, yes, I'll agree to this, but I know Kim will come in and she'll say absolutely not. So that's good. It'll never have to happen. I'll never have to do this. And then Kim Vetra came into the room and she was like Yep. She just totally Baptist. And then it was like, Oh, no, we're going to have to do this. This is just awful.
I've been living in the same apartment for twenty four years in Melbourne and so everything I can remember, and I lost my father, father to sudden death, and that happened at the same time as that show happened, and so I tapped into that piece of television much harder than I think even most people would have. But I would these characters dealing with grief in a way that
was so relatable to me that I felt seen. And I think that's where television is at its best, is when we feel seen on screen, when we relate, and that particular series of that show resonated with me in a way like no other television ever had.
Yeah, I've made a new friend. She lives in Bali, and she just because she's Australian, great Australian, and she used to just catch up on Australian shows and she didn't know anything about Love my Way, no one had told her anything about it. She watched it and then she just saw her life unfold in front of her.
She's single mother with a sixteen year old daughter who had died in the same way, blue eyed, and I was, oh my god, I'm so sorry, and she said it was great and she just used to do what Frankie would do, Like she said, I do what she does. Like sometimes people come up and ask how my daughter isn't I as pretend she saw live, but she's studying at UNI and we've formed a really strong bond, and she says, to me, know what I went through.
I know this sounds like I think because of the type of actress that you are, for you to be able to go to that place so convincingly, there's almost a part of you that must have gone through it. Do you know what I mean? Like, we all know that you didn't have that experience and that's not your real daughter, but I think there's no way you could have played that part as well as you did without seriously, at some way convincing yourself that that had happened. So she's not too far off.
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's a little bit uncomfortable, but yeah, what I did was I spoke to counselors at hospitals and talked about the moment when you are told given this news, and I did a bit of research, but then I found this incredible slim book that was called something like twenty Tips for Grieving Parents something like that. Honestly, before I do a scene, I just open it up and it was like, day twenty five, this is what you're going to do today, Day fifty, this is what
you're going to do today. Day it's your child's birthday. You just had to read one page of that and you're there. Okay, I'm in that headspace. It was an extraordinary book. I've still got it. It just took you there.
The reason why we've talked about it and we've gone into it as deep as we have is because grief is not something people talk about very easily. And I think that show allowed people to be seen and allowed people to feel normal. You know. I think people going through a lot of that time saw that show and felt like, oh, I'm not alone. You know, this weird behavior that I'm doing at the time must be real because it's being put on screen like this. Why do
you think that show finished after three seasons? I mean I felt like I needed another. I felt like I really needed a season four of that show more than I needed another series of Secret Life of Us or more than I needed another series of Time Time of Our Lives. Why did you guys not go into a season four?
Ah, yeah, that's an interesting question. Well, jack Lin Perski moved overseas because her husband Rowan Woods got a film over there. I can't remember what was so, and she was, you know, one of the core team, so she wasn't involved in series three, but it was tricky her not being around. And also I gave birth to Albi at the beginning of series three, so we made it a
shorter run. And then I just I don't know, I just think we all felt like we've just run out of ideas, you know, Like I think TV is at its worst when it becomes business, where it's like, great, we've got this brand. Let's just keep generating content, shall we, and keep getting those checks. That's when TV's at its worst in my opinion. And we just couldn't none of us could really find where we wanted to go.
So you are right though, I mean, the second series of Whiteloaders to me was stronger than the first series of white Loaders. Not sure if you've watched any of it, I'm starting it.
Yeah, I've done the first episode it's brilliant.
But then the second series for that's better than the first I think, And that's very rare because most of the time people go, great, this is a hit, rush it in, you know, where the second series of Whitelatus doesn't seem like there's anything rushed about it. It actually feels like the first season's a prequel to it.
Yeah. I think you've just got to be really honest about with yourself and just make sure you're doing things for the right reasons. Our third series of Bump is coming out on Boxing Day, and we delivered that in about April and Stan weren't sure whether they wanted a fourth series, and so all year I've pretty much just been cruising around and having a lovely quiet time. I haven't done much work, and I've sort of thought, oh,
it's sort of great. We're not doing a Bump for not really sure where we'd take it or what we do or say. And now we're developing Bump four. And because we have that breathing time, it allowed us to go, actually, we really want to do this and say this. It's we're galvanized and we have a really strong theme and stories that we genuinely want to tell and feel passionately about. But we had that breathing space, which was great. We didn't have to just go straight in and start churning it out.
Season three. I've watched all of it, so I've been very lucky to have seen the whole thing. And I watched it over two days because you know, I wanted to watch it the way Australia is going to get to watch it, binge it. I really enjoyed season three the most.
I think that I'm so happy you said that, because it is so dangerous to just pump out stuff, and that's what everyone felt, were all the cast and.
All the crew. They read the series three scripts and like these are the best scripts. And I was just saying to Kelsey, that is so unusual that we were still managing to come up with true and relevant story by the third series, because usually you started to starting to run out of ideas or things becoming a bit contrived, like how do we convincingly, you know, intertwine these people's
lives and generate drama. It's really it gets harder. And that's why I just feel so proud of us that we got to series three and reinvented the world and kept it alive. Tonally, it's the same show, but we moved into different territory. It was like time travel. It was so exciting and same with series four. We feel like we're covering genuinely new territory and yet we don't sort of have to shoehorn the stories into the world in a sort of a contrived way.
Well, I think that you made some really bold choices with season three, and I think that might have been hard in the writer's room to think, oh, can we do this? Is this kind of jumping the shark. But
everything lands, Everything works really well. And what's interesting to me about Bump and of how I felt about when it was promoted for series one, was that it looks really different for you and John Edwards like it looked a little different, but yet by the time I watched the very first episode of season one of bub, I was like, there's the grit, there's the reality. There's the real world that you guys have been creating for decades now,
and it is in this show. However, in a third season, it's kind of where most seasons have their worst season, you're at your best and I think all of the actors could not be any better.
I mean, I think what makes it so different is it's half hours. It's the first time John and I have done half hours, and that really does change things. It changes the way you tell stories. Oh, I'm so glad to get that feedback. That's fabulous, that's so great.
And I'm doing my best to hold my timee because I don't want anyone to hear anything about this series. I think that the fans of the show need to come back and be surprised, and I think new audiences if they're listening to this right now. I might be bold by saying this, but I don't even feel like
you need to see season one or season two. You can just pick up this show at season three because it's just as vibrant and the characters are just so accessible that you can tap in at this point and it will.
Be well, you know, I don't want to take up anymore of people's time is necessary, because they should be walking in the sunshine and swimming and dancing, not sitting in front of a screen. So I'm with you. Stan probably would prefer people to go back and watch series one and two.
I just think if you watch season three. You will go back and watch series one and two afterwards. I just think there's an entry point, there's a really clear entry point. But what is it about your work in collaboration with John and Dan that makes these shows so electric? Like no one else is doing it. It's almost inked to you that you understand Australian culture in a way that no one else in Australia is telling those stories. What is it? I don't know. How are you doing this?
Oh? Well, I think it's a little bit like what Judy Mcrosson did on Secret Life of Us. You sort of create an atmosphere in the story room where people unlock things and people don't offer up inauthentic ideas or you get quite raw. I'd say that's probably it. I think John Edwards is quite unusual and that he's really he really gives people a lot of permission to play. He doesn't try and control things.
Yeah, well, I think that you understand so the social conscience of Australia. I think that's what it is to me, like no other storyteller.
That's great. I mean, that's what we're aspiring to do. So that's really lovely to hear that that's really great.
Do you remember fifteen years ago doing like a presentation's on YouTube where you talk about the importance of the writers and the importance of the actors and those people working together, and you were very passionately talking about it.
The writers and the actors, two very creative people are quarantine from each other. Potentially, what you could do is think about sitting, putting aside four to five hours or whatever whatever you've got for the actors to meet or actor whoever you think is appropriate to be with the writer and with the present, and go through that script scene by saying, yeah, I did watch a bit of
that sometime. I sort of I was cringing in horror because I you know, it was early days and I wasn't really I really wasn't that authorized to speak like that, to be honest. And I don't think that template works for everyone. It doesn't work for every actor, and it doesn't work for every producer, and it certainly doesn't work for every writer. But it works the way we do it and the way we collaborate and the atmosphere that we create. But I mean, you know, on Bump, we
empower our actors. We use Kirstin McGregor to cast, and we cast actors who are smart and good people and professionals and passionate. And then you, you know, because I'm a producer on set as well, in those downtime moments, you talk to those actors about how do you feel about that scene? How do you feel about your character doing this? Do you want to pictu us an idea for your character? Do you want to name your mum? Yes,
I want to give her my grandmother's name. So that is that cross pollination of making sure those actors feel empowered and feel seen and heard, because so often as an actor you're just just told to do stuff and told to wear stuff and you know it's not doesn't fit the character, but no one's you know, it's an expedient medium, so you don't have a lot of time to go around and check in with all the actors
about does this feel real to you? And a lot of actors are not going to rock the boat and be unpopular or be difficult and inverted commas, so you know they'll be professional and do it. But when you get asked, actors very rarely disappoint you. They they're smart and they have good instincts and they should be invited to contribute creatively, but not all actors want to and not all actors are good at it, So it's just a manner of managing.
Well, whatever's happening is unbelievable because even with these younger people, you know that you've been able to alight in this series. They're all phenomenal. Like all of these young people in this show, the show wouldn't work if you didn't have that level being matched by the adult actors in this I mean, your daughter is so brilliant.
Natalie Morris, She's she's utterly superb. I love that girl so much. When I met her over Zoom, I was like, oh my god. You know she was reading the same books I was reading at that same age. We've got so many things in common, and go to the theater with her tonight. We spend a lot of time together off screen. We go for bushwalks, we do yoga, we go for swims. Like that's a genuine connection there, that's real chemistry. Like I utterly adore Natalie.
Her performance has a lot of your mannerisms, Like you know, it's did you both work on that together or is that the work being done by you creating that relationship. I mean, obviously the connections there and you're genuinely friends, but what is coming across on screen is a mother daughter relationship that is it's so authentical, it's so real.
Well, that's full credit to Natalie. That is full credit to her. And she's a really really intelligent performer and highly aware, highly observant, highly tuned in. You know, she's a daughter of she grew up in Canberra in the bush. She's got one of four siblings and her dad's a GP. She just has this solid base and this increditious. She's so perceptive and yes, she did something in the scene.
It was so funny. I was watching her on set and I was like, oh, I love that little moment where you did that, and she went, I was copying what you did in that of the scene because I'm your daughter. And I was like, oh, wow, you are just like you're so evolved. She's so clever.
That's so brilliant, Like she's doing that so well. And Carlos is amazing, everyone is amazing. I think the comedy in this series is also is there, you know, and it's effortlessly there and it's not funny. The same way that Love My Way was funny. It's not funny like that. It's not funny like a sitcom. But you are genuinely laughing out loud and enjoying this show.
Well that's I mean, that's how we are in the writer's room. And we've got We've also got Nick Coyle. I have to give a lot of credit to Nick Coyle. He's he wrote two episodes of series three and he came into the Bump story room just for series three and he did change the climate of the room. Like he's we just like we want to have fun. How
can we have the most fun with this scene? How can we give this actor the most you know, like the most absurd thing to play that they're going to enjoy going to work that day.
I have to ask you one last question, because it's the same question goes on all of my podcasts. We'll do it, smash it out, but what is something from behind the scenes, something that the viewers won't know or won't see, kind of like a behind the scene secret of the makings of Bump.
Oh, I mean there's so many like for instance, the baby we had twenty different babies, so you just like have a different baby in every scene. I mean people may have noticed that once you tune into it, it's really annoying. I mean there was all a behind the scenes COVID stuff which you can't see on screen. You know, we went out, we wanted one of the first productions to go out in COVID, the first wave. Then we went out. Second series was just tuned into Delta, and
our third series was totally tuned into Omicron. So we were just smashed series after series. In fact, Series three was the worst out of them all. We were literally it was like collecting water with a sieve. So you are like, oh, okay, so we don't have that actor today because they have COVID. Oh right, so we don't have this location now because you know it's in a lockdown suburb or the amount of last minute scrabbling that was happening behind the scenes of series three would blow
your mind. And yet what's so curious is you lose something that we all loved and we all created in the room and you have to kill it and then you go, oh, okay, so we'll do this. So you've just got to sort of just keep reinterpreting it and you know, trying to stay creative with the problem solving, and I think we did. But yeah, that behind the scenes scrabbling was going on.
The world will be a different world while you're shooting season four, so that like it's a lot has changed, and so I think that the entire experience will be different. Yet again, who knows. Maybe then it'll be a really crap season because you know, all of that, all of it right, taken out of it, and so the yeah gets taken out but obviously obviously not. Claudia. I am so thankful for the generosity of your time to be
talking to me this morning. You are the most amazing television and film actor in Australia and I will be in your audience for a very long time. So good luck with everything and thank you.
I plan to keep working up until the day before I die, so you.
Know, okay, look after yourself.
Thank you, said bye.