Welcome back to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris and on this podcast I'll be going behind the scenes with the biggest players in television. Today's episode is a bonus midweek special to coincide with the launch of Mister in Between series three. Yep May twenty six, at eight thirty on Foxtel, you can start the final series of one of Australia's most original characters, Ray Shuesmith. He's a hit man,
but the twist really lies in the characters likability. I saw the character's first incarnation as a short film called The Magician at the sink Hilda Film Festival in two thousand and four, which was nearly twenty years ago. The story resonated with Joel Edgerton's brother, Nash Edgerton, who was
one of Australia's best storytellers. Nash believed in this wildly successful story from the ground floor, and since then we have seen a feature film and then this wildly successful current FX series which is in its third but sadly final series. The show is quite violent, but the heart and soul of the story is like nothing you've seen before.
I have the creator, writer and star Scott Ryan with us to discuss the origins of Mister in between violence and Cinema, why the show is coming to an end, and he will reveal if he is sad about this final chapter for his iconic character. I absolutely loved this chat, and I hope you do too, So I'd like to welcome Scott Ryan and you so this week's TV Reload Bonus episode.
I just started tracking down every book ever written about hitman, and you don't understand is ye as bad people at the The thing I like about guys like Ray is they don't hear the consequences a.
Story about a hit man who's just trying to show the world that your job doesn't to fight you.
I think we've all at some point wanted to hit somebody.
And the actor goes to Scott Ryan.
There's so many people out there watching the show who understand what it's like to go out and kill people.
But the beauty of it is you're just watching a man make one choice after the other and kind of emphasizing with it.
To be honest with you, I think we did amorized violence as a society.
How are you made to you?
Well, yeah, good mate yourself.
Yeah, I'm actually really excited to be having this chat with you. I have to say that Mister in Between has had a real cult following. There are those that know how good it is and those that don't, but anyone who's watched the show has really loved it. How have you processed the popularity of the show.
Well, look, when you make anything, you want other people to like it. That's number one. You know, if you make something and people respond to it positively, you feel vindicated. Those thousands of hours that I spent doing that, not sleeping properly, not eating properly, and everything else that goes into it, do you feel like, well, it was worth it. So yeah, it's great.
What were you the most inspired by growing up watching TV?
I mean, you know, you look at Happy Days, Gilligan's Island, Lost in Space. Yeah, lots and lots of stuff, And then I guess they got older. I got into Sein Fowl, Curby Your Enthusiasm, and in a lot of ways, this show is kind of a lot like curbyr. Enthusiasm, except that instead of the show being about a comedian Larry David, it's about a hit man really, and his responses to people are probably just a little different. To Larry David's responses.
Rather than sort of yelling at people, he just tends to kill them or beat them up.
Well you play. I mean, this guy is so likable. He's the likable hit man. He's kind of the anti hero in a way, which made me think about all the roughest people that I've met in my life, and I want to ask you, why are so many bad guys so charming?
The thing is with bad guys as opposed to nice guys, or however you want to put it, bad guys are not really I think what keeps a lot of us in check is fear of consequences. I think we've all at some point wanted to hit somebody. Yeah, if we're all honest, you know there are people that we have wanted to punch in the face. Why don't we because we're scared they're going to punch us back, or we're scared that if we do some damage, we're going to go to jail. Whereas the thing I like about guys
like Ray is they don't fear the consequences so much. Okay, I'm going to hear you, and that's it. And so I think fear keeps a lot of us in society. You know, whether it's fear of getting hurt, or fear of going to jail, or fear of the consequences, whatever they may be, actually keeps a lot of people in check. And there's something about watching these people do what we all would like to do. Every now and then we're
living vicariously. They're doing the things that we would like to do to some extent, you know, That's what it is, I think. I mean, that's why I enjoy watching these sort of characters, you know, because they're living that life that I kind of would like to. Well.
In school, I just wanted to share this with you that, you know, there was a couple of rough guys in my year level and they really protected me because for whatever reason, they thought I was funny. But it made me think about is it good to have a few characters like Ray in your back pocket?
Oh? Look, at least one everybody should have a Ray character in their life. At least one. I've got a Ray character in my life. It's good to have people that. I mean, You've got to be careful, you know, because if somebody annoys you, you can't really tell them, you know, you can't get them go, oh, this person they did this, they did that, and ah, you know, because the problem is they'll go and do something about it. They might
take just not whoever that person was. I'll have a nasty accident, they'll trip over, and yeah, you got to be careful to some degree, I've learned.
How did you come up with the story originally? I mean, this character has been now alive for twenty years nearly, you know, two thousand and four for us the first time audience has met him, but for you probably longer. But how did you come up with this story?
Well? I was I read a book called Contract Killer years ago and it was about an American hit man and it was basically a biography and he was just talking about his life and how he got into it and stuff, and I just I was fascinated by the character. You know, I had to well, I wanted to make a feature. I had no money, and I thought, well, why don't I do mocumentary breake docco about this character.
But he's not American, He's Australian, and let's follow him and just watch his sort of day to day life. And that's basically where the character Race Hu Smith came afternoon, sir, are you Ray Shu Smith? I don't answer questions. Can I help you? We're looking for a ras Shoe Smith? Does he live here? I don't answer questions.
Okay?
Is there somebody here who can answer questions? I don't answer questions. Okay, I don't really know how to respond to that, Sir.
What sort of research do you do? I mean you said that you read this book and sort of that was the inception, but you know, at the point where you're trying to make this real life, So what sort of research did you do?
Well? Basically, I just started tracking down every book ever written about Hitmenn, whether it was biographical or whatever, you know, true crime, a lot of mafia stuff, and anything where there was any kind of mention of a hit man. I read it and made notes, a lot, a lot
of notes. You know, this is the other and you know, I known people in alive who you could say are a little bit dodgy, spoke to them, and then, of course, you know that's the work side of it, but then with the personal side of it, you're talking to other people. I mean a lot of the stuff in the show that relates to Ray and Britney is based on experiences. The nash the director had with his daughter, who plays my daughter in the show, sounds like a myth, Hospark.
It's like a like a tradition. So he is reel, No, it's not.
So where did presents come from? So why do you lie about that?
Good question? I mean, I don't even know whether I will say anything comes from the sex talk and all that sort of stuff that all came from just talking to him. He was telling me these stories. And you know the Christmas scene with the guy getting you know, taking his daughter's present, that actually happened to his daughter. You know, somebody took her present that she really wanted
during a secret Sannah. That's the inspiration for that. You know, a whole bunch of stuff has come from different people's experience as friends of mine. You know, I've had conversations with people. I mean, there was a conversation in season two where Ray and Gary are sitting around the fire and they're talking about Kalamari. I was, you know, I had that conversation with Justin Rosneyak who plays Gary in his kitchen, and I said, oh mate, this is probably
gonna end up in the show. I don't think he believed me, and then a year later we're sitting around the fire doing it in front of a camera. Yeah.
I think that's the best thing about your work, though, is that there is I mean, you're bringing real life conversations into these characters, into these stories. I mean, I like that about Australian drama in particularly especially in Australian scripted drama, is where you feel like, these conversations are those real human moments that we have with one another, and that's when you resonate as an.
Audi earlier, because yeah, it helps you hook in. And it's especially difficult with a character like this because there's so many people out there watching the show who understand what it's like to go out and kill people. I mean, if he was an accountant, there's lots of accountants who could relate, but because of what he does, people can't relate. So you've got to have that dialogue there so that
people can relate to him. People can go what you, I've had a conversation just like that and I feel exactly the same way as he feels, and that gets the audience to them to be able to relate to this person and go, oh okay, yeah, I kind of know people like this or I'm kind of like that that hooks you in. I mean, the whole conceit of the show is I wanted people to see what this guy's life is like, but I also wanted to like him and to also get people to sort of, I guess,
be less judgmental of other people. Just because somebody does this for a living doesn't mean they're necessarily evil, you know. And everybody has good qualities, Even people who are evil have good qualities, even people who do bad things, even bad guys, you know. And I've met some bad guys in my time, when I found them to be the most dangerous people I've ever met, are also the most nicest, respectful, honest, and loyal people I've ever met.
It's so true, though, But you know what's interesting is I have to confess to you my favorite characters in television and film have always been flawed characters, people who are almost a little bit villainous.
Because they're more interesting.
They are more interesting. But I think for me it's more relatable, and I in my own life am more trustworthy with people who are upfront about their flaws and own their flaws instead of are that, because I'd much prefer to be friends with someone who's honest and bad about who they are than these people who pretend to be good. The more perfect someone tries to present themselves to me, the more likely I'm going to run away because I'll be like, they're the ones you've got to worry about.
That, That's exactly true. The people in this life give you have to watch out for the phonies. People got to watch out for the people who pretend to be something but they're really not. You know, those are the people who are most evil.
Who could be bothered trying to pretend to be someone that they're not. To be honest with you, To be.
Honest with you, I think everybody is a little phony to some degree. I don't think anybody is one hundred percent of authentic. The amount of work it takes to be phony, it's like you're acting all the time. It's like you've created this character and then acting that person out in real life to be somebody or not. And that must be incredibly tiring, because I know how tiring is to act a camera. That I have to do that every day when there's no cameras must be incredibly
difficult and keeping track of all the lies? What lie did I tell? How am I going to tell this lie? How am I going to come up? Is anybody going to find out the lies that I've told? All that kind of stuff must be It's just incredibly hard work, and I can't I feel sorry for anybody with a disease of phoniness.
Has this character evolved in a way that's quite surprising?
I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean when I created the show, I kind of had a sense of where it was going to go. You know that it was going to be more of a character study than the film was, and we're going to get to see what it's like for, you know, to live this kind of double life for this guy, and so yeah, I kind of always knew where I wanted it to go.
And if you had to describe each season by overall theme, like I felt like, you know, you've been telling it an evolution. Is there a way you could describe each season?
Well, I mean season one is about a guy who is very good at his job and he's basically bulletproof. If I wrote all that again season two, the audience would be like, well that was good season one, but is that it? So Season two was more about getting deeper into the character. Why is this guy doing this?
And who is he? You know, let's look at that and let's have some cracks to start appearing and starting to see the flaws in this person and a little more and then you know, taking it into season three, we've said all that up. You know, we know he's good at this, and that we know he's got flaws, We know your cracks, we know where he why he is, what he is to some degree. Let's really see if we can really get this guy to just crack, if we can finally get this guy to just go ah and we do.
Is there any concern that you might be glamorizing violence at all when you're telling this story.
Look, I think, to be honest with you, I think we do glamorize violence as a society. You look at guys who go after war and they heroically kill twenty people. What do we do We give him a medal, you know, give him the medal of honor, or we give him this, or we make a movie about you know, this guy and what he did, and we do glorify it. We
turn these people into heroes, and so we should. If you go and risk your life to fight for your country so that guys like you and I can be free to live the lives that we want to live, and you're prepared to go and die, we should glorify that. Yeah. Absolutely, you know, I don't have a problem with law refine violence because violence is a part of life, and it's a necessary part of life. But by the same token, we shouldn't glorify it all. Some violence is just not on.
You know, there's a line that you shouldn't cross.
I needed to ask you this because this has been plaguing me for years. But in the first episode of series one, there is this spectacular fall in the opening sequence. It's unbelievable. How the hell was that done.
We had the guy on a rig, so you know, he's got a harness and he's got a cap and we've got a rig there and you basically just paint all that stuff out posts so you can't see it. But basically, yeah, I really pushed him. I really pushed him off those stairs.
How would you describe the passion of those Edguton boys Like I remember in Lockdown I stumbled across I think it was sixty minutes. I can't remember, but it was like a tell all about the two boys and the trajectory of their careers and the place in which it started with their passion for film. But how would you describe working with those boys and Nash particularly, I.
Guess the word I would say is they're very, very driven. Definitely very driven and very hard working people, both of them.
And then after your journey, because this is a really important question for you at this point, but are you ready to say goodbye to this character?
Most definitely. I mean, it's been over twenty years for me, and yeah, I'm ready to go and play a romantic lead in a big budget romantic comedy in the US. Now.
I will be sad to see the story finish, but I also am so excited to see what you do next. One question I always ask my guests before they go, what is an amazing story from behind the scenes that we as an audience would appreciate.
One of the gutsiest things I've ever seen, actually in my life was one of the actors in season three who I won't name, who had a bit of an issue with heights and all that kind of stuff. She was put in a situation where you know, she was off the ground and was completely terrified to do this particular scene. I gave her the out. I said, look, if you really don't want to do it, but she's like, no, no, no, no,
I'll do it. And she was, you know, in tears and completely terrified, handshaking, and still went through with it. That's one of the gutsiest things I've ever said. Anybody do it. Be that terrified, but have that much courage to go and do it anyway. And you know, it's tough. I mean, it's you know, you have plenty of fun, but it's also a tough gig and you definitely suffer
for your art. But at the end of the day, you know, if you can look back on it and look at the product and go, well, you know, I'm proud of it, I'm happy with it, then it's all worth it. I'd hate to suffer through something and then look at at the end and go, oh my god, it's a pile of shit, you know, like that. I think that'd be one of the worst things I've managine. So luckily I'm not faced with that dilemma.
Just to wrap this up, I just want to say you have just done such an incredible job with his story, and I think as an audience member, I'm so proud of you and I can't wait to see what it is that could you do next. And thank you for bringing such rich storytelling to Australia but to the world, you know, being on Fax, having it been seen in America. It's something that I think you should be really proud of. So I want to say thanks for that.
It was good to talk to you man. I have to say, if everybody's questions were this good, it'd make my it'd make my job of kind of getting the show out there a lot, a lot more enjoyable. So thank you.