It's in the news today, but it was actually on TV Reload the podcast last week.
I'm right, how would I describe a television set.
Oh Man from a headline grabbing point.
Of view, the hack producer from me says one hundred percent put him in.
Welcome back guys to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris, and on this podcast I go behind the scenes with the biggest players in television.
Yeah, great questions.
The show's about the game. There's a lot of great television out there in Australia.
But I've also got to go behind the scenes with writers. The truth is, when I started writing it, it wasn't had nothing to do with the news and casting agents they.
Know from a casting point of view what they need.
And editors because that's what we do as editors where storytellers them. Not to forget some incredible executive producers who are making some of the best TV content in Australia.
I have been on the program since the beginning and it's kind of in my DNA.
So thanks for joining me each week and I hope the podcast continues to give you real insight into the magic of television today. On the podcast, I have Kevin Carlin, who has had an amazing career in television with directing some of Australia's most iconic scripted drama and comedy, but also recently he has just finished the last two episodes of the iconic television series Wentworth on Foxtel. Today, we'll
find out how we got started in Australian television. We'll go behind the scenes for the very last time on Wentworth, which has its series finale on Tuesday at eight point thirty on Foxtel. Fans of the show will delight in all the exclusive stories with some of the actors and characters who we will bid farewell for the last time this week, including reminiscing over some of the actors and character stories like b Smith, who in my world is one of the most iconic characters in the series, played
by Daniel Kormack. Kevin Carlin might not be a household name like some of the actors that he has directed, but with a resume as long as his, I guarantee you you've seen more shows that he's directed that even James Cameron and possibly Steven Spielberg think blue heelers, grasses greener, packed to the rafters, winners and losers Sea Change, But what was more exciting to me was his work back in the day on shows like Big Girls, Blouse and
Fast Forward. I absolutely love Kevin's ideas on storytelling and his passion for Australian content being made in this country. And if you like a good story told, well then today you will love this chat. However, let's get started with today's episode. I'd like to welcome Kevin Carlin to this week's TV reload.
It's about the gathering of shots and who's done, what we're and how it's going to come together. Were Worth the new season. We weren't slave to the idea of remaking Prisoner. If I'm such a monster, why didn't you stop me? The basis was reimagining it.
This is Queen Bee kif top on now.
Where she went to, what she did with that character is just historic television. Up this show, it's his baby in a lot of ways. That is the joy of doing what I do is a up close front seat to these amazing actors.
Hi, Kevin, how are.
You very well? Thank you Ben Well.
Congratulations on the success of Wentworth. What an iconic show to be a part of for so long. Yeah.
Look, had you told me at the start in twenty twelve that this is where we'd end up, I would have taken that every day of the week. It's just been an incredible.
Right absolutely, I mean, and it's resonated with Australian audiences so clearly.
And I don't think when we started back in twenty twelve would ever imagine that we would have captured the imagination of so many people away that we have. But here we are, now looking, here we are Episode one hundred. What a nice way to finish.
How did you get started working in television.
When I was a teenager? Made of mine? Well earlier he'd been left a Super eight camera and sort of grew up in a area where there was no expectations that that would necessarily follow through to any sort of career. Well, he from about nine to ten started making little films and during our teen years we made them and then we rushed down to the chemist and put the film into the chemist and get it out and have a look at it. He ended up going to work for
Channel seven when he was nineteen or twenty. He sat for a video assistant sort of role. He got that. I think he was one of hundreds of applicants and I was out of work. We wanted to get one of our Super eight films out of the chemist. I had no money. I went across to see him who was working that day, and someone said, do you know anyone that wants to work? And he pointed to the moon.
He said him so because I owed him money. And so I ended up pulling in sets at Channel seven in nineteen seventy five, I think it was, yeah, And so look, it was just by accident that I started working there. I left, came back a few years later, and I was actually going to enroll to go to the do media studies out at Rusden, but I got a job as a stage hand atanels them at that stage and just work through the renks very quickly, so I never got to do that. Course.
I like the fact that your mate wanted the cash and needed to put your work.
He was sick of lending me money. Yeah, so he got me some casual labor that actually led into careers. So I'm internally thankful to Tim.
Well, we might get back into your career as we go into the interview a little bit further, but can you go back and tell me how and when wentworth How this project came across your desk.
I think see I was over see, I was in Malaysia and we're just holidaying and I've got a phone call from Joe Porter saying that there's a show that they've got which is the reimagining of Prisoner, and would I be interested in being the setup director? And I knew Prisoner and you just know that is an idea. Is a really strong idea because you've got the capacity to investigate so many things about life, death, survival, freedom, liberty.
So the stakes are very high on the platform in that idea, there was no brain for me to say, I'd love to talk Joe when we get back. And of course the chance to work with Joe Porter, who I'd worked with before on All Saints and set up always greener with it.
Put a great relationship to have. I mean, she has one of the best reputations in the business. People love to work with her, and she has worked on just as many iconic shows as as you. Pretty much.
The other thing is she's a mate working with a really creative person. But also it's a great environment that you're working in.
You know, that's the most common thing about the opportunity to talk to people like yourself is talking about this industry, and that is it always comes back to having a genuine friendship with your collaborators. And all these shows that are very successful, I think the root of it comes from a very strong relationship between the content creators.
I think you're absolutely right, Ben, because it's this massive jigsaw puzzle that you're putting together, and you know, you get one or two of the elements out of whack and it'll sink. You get a few of them that work, and I think that that's when you get your successes. And also just you're working in such a heated environment or a stressful environment a lot of the time and
for long, long hours. If you're butting heads with someone or you're not seeing the world as they see it and you don't like them, you know, twelve hours a day is a long time.
It's pretty painful. What was your relationship with the source material? How did you feel about Prisoner? Did you watch it?
To tell you the truth, I wasn't a watcher of Prisoner, probably just when it was made and where I was at in life and time. I wasn't its target audience. So The only thing is, like most people, it was a phenomenon and I was aware of it, but I hadn't watched an episode of it. I think.
Now, Francesca, I do run this prison, and nobody, especially you, challenges me and gets away with it.
There's three ways that can end. Someone gets released, backs down, nds up dead.
In making this, which is sort of liberating in a way that I wasn't, one of the things is we weren't slave to the idea of remaking prisoner was the basis was reimagining it and so a group of women in a modern context thrown into jail, what's it like? And that's why it was just so compelling an idea that first episode that we did, which was wanted to actually see it through the eyes of a hairdresser, which is sort of emblematic of anyone going into jail for
the first time and the experience of that. One of the things is absolutely wanted to see it through Bee Smith's eyes and just oppressive with the camera and oppressive with just the environment. So the Menuchi I that stood out to her was trying to access a world that she is seeing for the first time, trying to make an audience member feel as though that they're going into prison for the first time, and so as an idea that's sort of compelling, what would happen to me? What
would I do? And also the bigger things that you're left to investigate prison, the nature of power, the corrosive nature of power farm sort of I deer to it. There's also for me. It was built on a few thematic pillars, that being one of them. The other what we do to survive in a harsh environment as humans? You know, what will we do and the things that we do that force us us to survive, how it incrementally changes us over time? And that was an idea
that you know, we really wanted to play with. And I thought that what happens if you do you incrementally change? And do you ever cross the rubicon and that you can never go back? Do you become a different person? And the third and probably the most fundamental pillar, thematic pillar that sort of tracked all the way through as the others do also, but was the nature of family and our ability or our want and our need to
create family wherever we go. And so that is rit large in Wentworth and you know, we get to the final episode and still, you know, the family, it's all it's wacky manifestations, is still incredibly solid and the thing that drives us through to the end.
I just think, has there ever been a show that has continued to be just as successful with the reshuffling of a cast. Writers were really clever about the way in which characters came and went, And I think it comes down to something you just explained. These characters were intertwined in a way that it was forever evolving, like we all are with our need and desire to be a part of family.
I think you spot on there, and I think that what you've also said there in relation to the writing department in a massy gardner who's a script producer. But John Ridley and people tyed just what they brought to the table all the time, the way that they were able to regenerate the show. As you say, you know, it's losing key characters, you know, I know when it was decided that we exhausted all the avenues that the Smith could go down and she'd reached she'd dust, don't
it all? You know Daniel cormack Man just where she went to what she did with that character is just historic television. Getting back to your point about the writers and being able to regenerate story with new characters and people still tuning in. I think one of the gifts that the writers have actually given the show is the quality of writing. I thought you can always judge a
show by the quality of actors that attracts. And you just look at the list of people who have been through Wentworth and it's the who's who were acting in Australia.
Well, Sigrid Thornton.
You know when you see sitting at one table, Pamela Rade as he brought a leopurcell, Katrina Molosovich, k to Atkinson, you know secret you just you go man, and you know. In the early days, that first cast that we had, I think that that was one of the main reasons for the success of the show was the casting of that first episode, and it was terrific that they weren't necessarily Foxtel or Free Mental, weren't after names, are after
great character act That's what we landed. And I think it was the force of that cast that allowed us to go where we went.
And it's there for us as an audience. You know, it's oh so digestive. It's so addictive. I mean, I remember introducing the series to my mother in law and we still to this day, we still go as she's in Bendigot We go to Bendigo and she says, have you brought the Wentworth?
So the violence and the sex and didn't freak her out.
Not at all. My mum wouldn't have watched a single moment.
That's funny talking about Danielle and talking about one of those themes that I was touched on before, which was what we do to survive and the things that we do is it irrevocably changes. And I don't know whether you saw season two where she shot Brayden, which I remember going across to her place over two days of a weekend. We must have spent twelve hours just workshopping that six minute scene. It wasn't about the nuts and bolts. It was about the psychology of what she was doing.
And in that moment, could the hairdresser that went into jail pull that trigger and blow Jaden away? And if she could, who did she become in that moment? And that forever changed the character of v Smith in Wentworth.
She pulled that trigger just there's so many moments. I think for her, what was your fondest memory from working on the very first series of the show.
There's a couple of things that stand out. One is there, and it's because it's captured a photograph of kad Atkinson and myself standing there holding the first slate, and to now look back on that, we never imagined where we're going to go. I think what's interesting about this is that you know, Moser character is a female, and we get.
To do a lot of stuff that would be traditionally a male role.
So it's really exciting to be able to do that, and to have a whole group of women of all ages and sizes and ethnicity together that have such.
Great stories to tell. It's interesting. I remember I hadn't worked with Susie Porter before and she came into my office and with just to speak a little bit about you know, basically was a meeting et and talk, and I just said to her, we haven't worked together before, what do you like from a director? And she said, I've never been asked that question before. But I suppose I don't need to be loaded up with backstory. I don't need to know that I was traumatized as a kid.
What I want is basically too much, too little, too Hollywood, and what the essence of the scene is about. And I think each actor works in a different way and process is in a different way, and it's just the ability to tap into that and you provide the support for them. It's nothing special, it's just common sense.
Well, without giving anything away, I just watched the second last episode last night, and Susie was so amazing in this episode. I just am in awe of that ability to tap into a character like that. I've met Susie before, She's not that character at all, but just an amazing And you've got to direct that second last episode.
That is the joy ben of doing what I do is that up close front seat to these amazing actors that do things wildly beyond your expectations. And Susie's one of those actors that does it. And the extraordinary thing it's seemingly effortless with her craft and ability that the way that she actually gets to where she needs to go, it's it's quite incredible. You know.
The series change from using a very significant color grade of teal, almost a very gritty green that was there for the first few seasons. What was the decision or why why did you choose to lose that?
Look, it was about just refreshing. There wasn't because the show was, you know, changing, and you know, principal characters were changing, just to just psychologically inform the audience that we've taken in a slightly different direction so that they're not necessarily looking at the same show that as they were in the past. But it's it's nothing more than that.
Right, And then the series nearly wrapped up a few seasons back. Do you think that the series finale that may have been might have looked very different if that had been in fact the series finale? I mean I wondered whether or not you added Joan Ferguson's reveal later down post production once the show had been greenlit again.
Yeah, Look, it would have been a totally totally different ending had we finished it when it was first anticipated that it would. And yet there was always discussion about where Joan Ferguson sat in that landscape.
Can you remember anything that we didn't get to see that may have happened in that finale?
One of the things was is they'll still be smarting over this? We had a couple of the prisoner women, the old prisoner women, waving goodbye from the yard to Ruby as she walked down, which we actually filmed three characters from the original Prisoner we put it in prison Wow, and they waved goodbye to Ruby walking down the cage corridor to freedom.
You're right, Okay, I guess this is going to be a really difficult question for you, But do you have a favorite character looking back at the series retrospectively? Now?
You know, obviously, you know from the very start what Daniel Kormack did was amazing. And I'm sure Nicole won't mind me saying this. Nicole and I in that first episode we didn't hit it off. We've butted heads a couple of times. And when I was about to do episode nine and ten of that, Nicole came to me. She said she was the adult in this. She said, we didn't get along too well in that first one.
Did we we get along fine outside of work? And I said, no, you're absolutely right, and she said we both agreed, let's put it behind us and start again. I misread it. And the thing is, I was the one that was at faulton sort of put up a Wall just said basically, I remember the day that can
you just do it? That was the note because we're having discussion about it, and she just did it, and there was tension between us, but not overt but she was the adult in the room that came back to me and just said that didn't go too well, did it. I said, no.
My name's Kate Atkinson and I play Deputy Governor via ben it Vera in all seriousness, is a woman who has always felt alone.
Kate Atkinson. I remember saying to her after the first episode that just I could run a camera on her face and she could give me tell me what the scene was about without saying a word.
I can honestly say she would have to be Australia's most iconic and most brilliant character actors of all time. And the nuances that Kate has on her face are just unbelievable.
You know, every moment of every scene she's invested in and she gives you a read on what it is.
But her Facebook is all differently as well, Like you could see that she I don't know how she'll do it, but like you know, sometimes just the flickering lip, yeah, just the lip or even the wins, just anything. The nuances to that she manages to articulate by just doing very small and very subtle things, allows you as an audience to feel exactly what that character is going through.
She will interrogate every moment of every scene too, so that's not so well.
I'd spoken to Katrina on TV Reload a few weeks back, and she mentioned that you reached out to her in the very early days about the possibility of being in the show before casting it even happened. Did you ever imagine that Boomer would go on to become one of the most loved legacy characters of the series.
Well, yes, I did imagine that. It doesn't surprise me. Cat and I go back and I just I love her work and I love what she brings. The thing is to bring so much humanity into an environment that lacks so much humanity was one of the conduits that her character was able to achieve. But the thing is, yes, I did say to her, there's this small part, I would love you to audition for it. Because she wasn't
part of the main cast in that first series. She was regarded as guest cast who were not guest casting. But she became main cast in the second series, which didn't surprise me at all because, as I say that, she's such a fine actress. Also, she's incredibly brave with her emotions and she you know, she puts it all out there. She certainly does well she does, and often she'll see me walking towards her and she'll say, let's less less scratching.
I was talking to her about things that she added to the character and what the writers added to the character, and she was like, you know, Brendan Favola they added, and the biscuits Monte Carlo's. But she was like, but the scratching I put in, you know, the constant fidgeting and readjusting herself. You know, she said, I put that in.
But she has fashioned just an iconic character that will stand the test of time and televisual history. Well.
I spoke with some of the other actresses who said that you were brilliant at being able to conjure performances out of them, that you knew how to set the scene and really allow them to immerse themselves in the moment. How would you do that?
I think I start off from the point of not being too prescriptive about what you want from the performance, because what you'll do is sometimes negate the goal that they intuitively are going to bring to that moment. So having a talk about what the essence of the scene is, about what you're hoping to get out of it, and then when you past well, they just go and do it.
And then you can just usually just let the first take be what they've brought to it, and then the second take or the third take you'll just shape it. But if it's totally off the mark, you'll have another
discussion about it. And as I said, going back to Sussie Porter, just finding out what an actor wants from a director I think is important because they all work a little bit differently, and there's some people you know that if you too many load up with too many notes, that they'll hit those notes and sacrifice the rest of a performance.
Well, the final series is probably the most gruesome, which is hard to believe for people who've watched it from the start. Did you guys get a green light to turn it up?
And I don't know whether anyone actually requested a green The writer the subverses bunch right, it's more violent than the others.
It's so much more violent and like the second episode where at the end of that series we saw Kate Box kill.
Martin dussel dous character Sheila.
Sheila, Yes, oh my gosh. You know, I can only ever in my home remember getting up and walking out of a room ever happening to me once and it was that scene. And I've watched all kinds of horror gruesomeness, and I remember standing in the hallway looking throughout my partner who's still watching the screen, and I said, is it over?
And he went, no, Yeah, the thing is. I look back and I just think, you know, the gruesome stabbing of Sonya in the in the shower, the stabbing of Jenko Ali in the sh out don't go for a shower? Is no soaring off hands, fingers hands.
Put the hands in the press, be like, uh, you know, I'm just going to say.
So many Ali plying off a finger.
What about kas Proctor? Kas Proctor was the one I didn't even see it coming, and you it had been set up so beautifully, like you could hear the music. There was such an iconic change. You just had this counseling session with the psychologist. I should have been smarter, I should have known it was going to happen, but I didn't, and it just so gruesome.
No, that was hard to watch. That was funny. Sometimes you forget what you've done because it's so mathematical equation shooting action. It's about the gathering of shots and who's done, what we're and how it's going to come together. But when you see it back, it sometimes terrifies me.
I'm going, well, I'm glad to hear that, you know, because I think if we heard that you were like, oh, that's amazing, Oh, it'd be like, yes.
I'm sorry. I think I might fall into that case spot from time to time. But you know, the person that we didn't speak about before too is a Pamela Raye. Just to have a front seat to her performances is quite extraordinary. She's a beautiful person and also a beautiful person to direct. She's so collaborative, right and you know then so open to talk and feedback and notes and just but also once again, just such a forensic mind.
The way that she's pulled apart a script and then reconstructed it, it's quite extraordinary.
Why do you think we were so scared of the freak? You know, like I know that Pamela did a brilliant job, but why was that character so terrifying?
What's interesting, you know, you give the situations and the things that she was actually capable of, that the way that Ferguson did it with the so emotionless, you know, the emotions of a psychopath, which was so disengaged. I think that that has something to do with someone that can commit these horrendous acts without any great investment except the fact that they've achieved what they set out to do.
It's such a loved character as well. What is wrong with us in society? I think, you know, we've really decided to love the villains as time has gone on. I guess we've always had your Hannibal Lecter's and your Darth Vaders, and you know, the likable villain. But Joan Ferguson, people love that character and she's positively evil psychopathic.
Yeah, it's one of those characters that people love to hate, isn't it. I know that I had this very very cut, muscled up cartoner working at my place and he was a bloke, a real bloke, but he saw a photo of Wentworth on the study wall and he goes he pointed to Ferguson, he said, she scares the shit out of me.
At that point, do you say I'm responsible for that TV show?
She scares the shit out of me too.
That's the correct human response, Kevin. You know, the show never lost the talent factor, always bringing in more actors who gave career best I'm going to say career best performances. Were you shocked to see Jane Hall play the role of Anne so well?
No, I wasn't shocked. I have to say I didn't know what to expect because I hadn't worked with Jane. I don't think ever. We'd maybe cross paths once or twice, and I wasn't overly familiar with her work. But boy did she deliver. So really really happy with where I got to. But I wasn't shocked because I had I didn't really know. But the thing is, isn't it fantastic that there is a vehicle out there for great actors
like Jane to actually show what she's capable of. And that's what Wentworth was was this show that actually had these fantastic dynamic parts for women, and just they kept on coming, and so we kept on needing great actors to come in and do those roles, and for Jane to come in and not to fire expectations because the expectations were there, but to have that platform to show us what she could do. It's fantastic.
I've just come from a meeting with the Minister. This Slammer dot com fiasco is causing a shit storm. I've decided to offer a bonus month's wages to whichever officer finds that came up.
One of the things that they wanted from a very start, Penny and Joe were very big on this was diversity. This is going back twenty twelve. They wanted diversity in cast. They weren't necessarily after names, even though that big names did come onto the show. Now, that wasn't the major driving force or idea behind It was about to get diversity and great characters in there. Well.
Fox tells a really good part of our landscape of Australian television, and there is a real respect and an old school mentality which I think comes from Brian in the sense that it's worth taking the time to actually do the work. At the start and even talking about the Real Housewives, they were given the luxury of seven months to cast those women on that show. I mean, it has a lot to do with the crews that
put them together. But if you don't get the mix of talent right and the mix of characters right, you know, shows don't lift. And Foxtel somehow has understood that and respected it, and I think that's why the trade off and the payoff for some of these shows is so good.
Well, the thing is companies like foxtell that are actually going to produce and particularly from my point of view, to invest in drama the way they have, and I hope they continue to do so because one of the things that they've been able to do is make dramas that aren't slave to the normal commercial realities.
Scripted drama is very important in Australia in general, and scripted drama is actually my favorite part of storytelling that we have in this country, and it always has been. It's very strange. I remember at times it's been not popular to like Australia content, you know, Australian films, I don't want to watch that or whatever. I was enamored with Australian story and the way in which we told it right from an early age. I love our storytelling
I love our unique ability to do so. But I also love Foxtel and the streaming services now that are now expanding different ways for us to get commission stories like this, and I hope and I said to Brian as well, please tell me with Wentworth finishing that you've recommissioned all of those amazing writers and directors, content creators and put them into another show.
I just couldn't agree more with what you had to say in relation to Australian drama. We need more of it.
One hundred percent. And we're only getting to the point now with all of these streaming services where we're stepping outside of the colloquial ability to tell Australian story that we can tell stories very well without it having to be about Australia. And I think for a while we dipped into a very dark period where it's like we can only tell stories about you know, drugs and gangsters.
Where I think we're now coming out of that a little bit and we're able to tell stories about the everyday Australian certainly.
And I think thirdly, yeah, and.
That's why there's streaming platforms and things like Foxtel are just so important.
Put the streaming platforms and be good with the internationals to have the same rules regulations that apply overseas, particularly in countries like France where a certain percentage of budgets have to be put aside for local production. And I know that we're on the way to doing that here, but it'll be good to see that eventuate.
Yeah, well, I think the government does need to get onto that. I mean, it's such a hard thing at the moment getting you know, everything, getting the economy back on the road after something like COVID. But the arts is so important that we should protect because it is so imperative to our own mental health to be able to have this kind of escapism. But it's also very imperative to our own mental health to be able to see ourselves on screen in show.
Absolutely, very few other countries in the world would not understand the importance of seeing our own restoring our own stories reflected back to us.
I think it's so important. I wanted to ask you whether or not there are any strange similarities between directing thriller and comedy.
Absolutely, And you know, just thinking about it, is that what I learned from comedy was such that's such a great advantage when I come to directing drama because I learned quite a bit off Ted Emery, who was the initial he started up Fast Forward. Yeah, and I was the associate director on that with him. But about the clarity of the idea, the essence of the idea, and being able to strip back a joke to its essence, what is it, unclutter it, then launch it, conceal it,
then reveal it. And that is drama. You know, you conceal and reveal and you try not to telegraph where you're going, but first of all, to know where you're going, you need to know the essence of what it is that you're prosecuting. Absolutely, so comedy is a great teacher.
Well, we can't really make shows like Big Girls, Blouse and Fast Forward as much as we used to with you know, councel culture and all of this. Do you think it's become harder to make comedies in twenty twenty one?
It probably is, just due to what you were saying about cancer culture and being unable to go to certain places. But I don't think that that necessarily precludes great sketch comedy is still being made. Maybe you know the format of sketch comedy is moved on and it might look pass but every now and then, and I'm just trying to think of examples that you just see someone that just smashes about the ballpark with a breath of fresh air and sketch comedy.
I love all of the sketch comedy that you've worked on. Your back catalog of sketch comedy is next level. It is all my favorite things to watch. The other thing I was going to say to you is one of my best friends and I we quote the lines from Big Girls Blouse, probably more so than any other TV show whenever we see each other. And so it was actually really funny and I said out loud to my partner, sweet sweet, gary Sweet when gary sweet turned up sweet.
Well, that scene that brings back flooding memories about we were in this building in the city where we had four days to shoot all the stuff that was going to be done in the magazine office the series. Yeah, the first day was bumping in and we needed to leave half a day to bump out, such was the budget up During that scene, I think Magda is renowned for a corpsey that she gets the giggles and can't stop. And it was during that scene that it hit and we had to be we had to vacate, get out
of there. We had a deadline, and we were hitting that deadline. She couldn't get through the scene without laughing, and she blamed it on Gina and Jane. She said they were making her laugh. So we end up putting a petition between them and they would deliver their lines. And she got halfway through and once again started giggling, and I just I was about to do my block,
except I was giggling too, because it's infectious. And I said, Magda, we've got to get out of her, and she said, don't get mad at me, and then so we started again and it happened again, and then she said, it's then behind the behind the petition, they're giggling, and we pulled the petitioning. Isn't that a weirdly infectious thing when someone's got the giggles? Yep, no matter what, you can't.
But you pair that with being told not to giggle, and I guarantee you that's a recipe for disaster.
Well, and then I'm trying to call and action.
Well, it's just so amazing, you know what would you say though, has changed the most in making TV these days compared to when you started and were making shows like Big Girls Blouse.
One of the major things is the way you actually use locations and just you know, there's in and it's about safety a lot of it, which is great, you know, just you think the things that you did, Like I would to record a scene in a car, what you would do is you would put the actors in the front of the car, the camera whether it's a side mound or a cameraman in the backseat, and the director and the sound that record us would lie in the boot of the car with earphones and you would drive
around town. And we did this with Big Girl's Flowers. I remember I would be locked in the boot of the car driving down Dandy Nongrad and we didn't have trail there. Actually, looking back, it was probably illegal then.
I mean, you didn't have to receipt belt back in those days. I'm pretty sure, but I still don't think you're allowed to be in the boot of a car driving.
But that was the same day, is that we were filming in Chapel Street a scene and it was in a shop I remember. But anyway, what I did. I saw a tram coming, and I got magged to get out and get a shoe caught in the tram track and just run up the tram track. Do you remember that shot? Yeah, that was just made up on the he comes a tramp, just walk across the road and get your heel caught in that. And then the tram
started dinging its bell and cheek. So that was totally unscripted, unplanned, and just happened.
So icon of I mean, I always think of the ladies at lunch. They're always a good one. But I loved the Michael Douglas thing. And I'm pretty sure Michael dougl.
Excuse me, madam, have you ever felt the edge to stalk and ravager? Man, here's Michael Douglass, Cherry Stone.
Who would you most like to stalk and ravage.
Everyone?
This? My wife still does that, Michael Douglas amazing.
Well that that's good to know. That's probably why you're still loving life. But I just think it's so that those moments, but also the performances of Jane Turner and everybody as they convincingly turned to the camera and said the reasons why they loved Michael Douglas just so well executed.
Yeah, well it looks such gifted performers. Once again, this is what I feel. You know, I've been treated to upfront, front row seats to these amazing performers who and you know, the three of them are so vastly different to like, Magda has got a brain like a small planet in the million ideas, Gina just knows comedy backwards and just livers and Jane she so quirky, and the three of them bring it to be just an extraordinary combination.
Well, you've worked on some pretty iconic shows and some of them are even resurfacing. You know, you've got packed to the rafters. Now is back to the rafters? I mean, I don't know if you've watched the new series. That's no, I haven't debut.
I have.
I watched it all, and I was going to ask you what did you think of Julie and Dave Rafter having marital problems at this point? Because I could imagine you would feel connected to a lot of these iconic characters. Are they having marital problems they're separated?
Oh no, no, don't tell me that. No, Kevin, it's terrible, cannot be that cannot be those gorgeous people.
Yeah, bevern Lee when he came back and said, you know we're going to do this story, you know, he said, what are we going to do to make this story relevant today? And yeah, Dave's living somewhere high up in the New South Wales and she's living in Sydney. They're not even living together, and it's and it's looking pretty grim.
No, no, no, that can't lasts. That's so sad. They're so good together. We need to do something about this. Man. We need some sort of online petition.
We'll have to bring a different network. It's Amazon Prime Video that we need to get in contact with and say, how have you allowed this?
This? It's wrong?
Are there any other shows that you've ever been asked to come back and work on that have you know that they're thinking about rebooting or that you've turned down?
No? No, I can't think of any that there. I do remember, not that I was asked for, but I were playing with this idea many many years ago, buying all the old homicide scripts. Right this is in the early two thousand's one channel we're thinking about buying all the old homicide scripts and redoing them that's not a good idea.
I'd probably watch it, but many wouldn't. Well, I'm going to just we'll get to the end of this and I guess there's no other way to finish this chat considering that Wentworth finale is just about to happen in a couple of days. For people listening to this podcast, have any advice you know, for the viewers and for those diehard fans leading up to watching that final episode.
Just have a blanket because you might have to pull it over your head from time to time. Make sure you've got an edge of the seat to sit on because you will be on the edge of the sleep for most of the most of the EPI sets, and also bring a hanky. If you're an avid fan, there'll be tears, maybe of joy, maybe not. Have a look.
You'll find out well, just like the rest of Australia, I've still got one episode left to watch and the only question I have for you is will we see anyone reprising their role in the finale? Could we possibly see two of my favorites is Frankie and Maxine? Are there any chances that we will get to see a glimpse of some iconic characters.
Yes and no. It depends and I'll explain off I'll fear what that means.
Yes and no meaning I can't answer that question. Thank you very much for playing.
But no, no, no, no, no that you asked that question. Don't mean to be circurit us when I say yes and no. But it does come back on itself that do you see these people? Well, yes and no. I love it.
My last question I always asked my guests before they go, is what is an amazing story from behind the scenes that where's an audience might appreciate.
A memory that stands out is that I had this thing rigged up called a duney can, which was to capture Frankie vomiting into the toilet. So it's rigged below the toilet's see and Boomer Captain Melossovitch was sitting in one of the cubicles, and the scene was Frankie races in and throws be his head down the toilet and gets to vomit into the toilet. Boomer, who was sitting there on the duney Captain Losovitch just looked at me very nervously, very nervously, and said, what's that camera for?
But I might answer that question again. I don't know whether you can use that.
No, I can use that. I just think it's it's very It leads us to understand the trust that you have. And I've spoken to so many women who've worked on this show, from producers to writers to the actors, and everyone talks of you so fondly and has a great relationship with you. And I think that that is about trust. So I think for Kat, she really has to trust you for you to put a camera like that on a toilet.
Get anywhere near a curb bottom, which.
I think is pretty damn amazing. Well, I just want to say thank you so much for being able to join us today and to unpack Wentworth. What a phenomenal ride, what a phenomenal show, and also what a fantastic job that you've been able to have working on this And I think you've really left your mark. So you must be very proud.
Oh look, thank you for those words, Ben, and I am very proud of what we've managed to achieve. As I said before, you know, it's a big bloody jigsaw puzzle. Unless you have all the pieces, you won't make a good picture.