Good a mate, How are you today?
I'm good, thanks and Bennett's a terrific pleasure to be with you on this podcast. And I must admit I'm only a recent devatee to TV Reload. I've thoroughly enjoyed what I've heard and it's terrific to get all the insights from so many different people across the industry on both sides of the camera.
Well, I mean, it's so exciting to have you on TV Reload. Everyone in the Australian television world knows who you are and everyone in Australia has been watching your work in one way or another, so it's quite exciting to be able to have you here. But how did you get started in the industry?
Look, I think I always had a great love of wanting to entertain people and that goes back to my school days really. But at the end of the day, I love putting on a show and I think that that really started back in those days at school. And when I left school, I really wanted to get into television and at the time I was successful in getting an opportunity with the ABC as a specialist trainer and my dad, whilst he was very encouraging in my career.
Wasn't sure that television was going to be a very secure industry for me, but he certainly encouraged me to take the position with the ABC, but also wanted me to pursue a tertiary education. And so for the first twelve months I was working at ABC Television in Sydney and I was studying part time a business degree. And after twelve months, I just thought, look, my passion was really was really wanting to be in entertainment full time. So I took the decision to my dad insisted on
I get a degree. So I took the decision to leave the ABC and I went to university full time.
And it was the first year of the communications degree at what is now known as the University of Technology in Sydney, and the first holiday job I had and my semester break was working at a factory in Sydney literally midnight to dawn for White Wings catching Himself Flower And after four weeks, I thought there's got to be a better way to make a dollar as I'm going through UNI, and so I reached out to the guys that I used to organize the movies when I was
at school. I used to organize surf movies and show them. And I contacted the distributors of those surf movies and I said, look, I'm looking for some work during the holiday periods whilst I'm at UNI. If there's any opportunities,
please keep me in mind. And sure enough, there was an opportunity that came up or showing surf movies down the New South Wales South coast, and so I took that opportunity and literally every semester break for three years, I would load up a comedy van with two sixteen millimeter projectors, a blue bucket poster is a staple gun, and I would travel from town to town showing surf movies from the southern suburbs of Sydney all the way down to the Victorian border, and then over the summer
breaks I would extend that tour.
To go across another board.
I would show movies all through regional Victoria, South Australia and West Australia up to Geralden. Did that for three years, and at that stage surf movies were the rage and surfers would flock to the local town hall and pay their five dollars and watch the latest movie from some of the great surf filmmakers from the US, and that's
where I really learned the trade. That's where I despite all the wonderful things that happened through a university degree, I really think the university of life for me was showing those surf movies and learning how to promote and how to market and standing in the back of those town halls and watching two hundred and three hundred people really get a thrill out of watching a movie that you were showing. And I think that's when I knew
that entertainment was going to be my destiny. And so when I completed my degree, I was convinced that I wanted to be in the entertainment game full time. I wasn't quite sure where that would take me. So my first job out of UNI was working for David Elfick and Film Noise in a company called Palm Beach Pictures,
and they were very successful Australian filmmakers. At the time, Phil was just launching his career, David Elphick was establishing himself as a major player and some of the features that Palm Beach Pictures produced included news Front, which I think to this day is still regarded as one of
the great Australian motion pictures. I guess the theme that was constant for me was my involvement in professional surfing, either showing surf movies or now working at a company like Palm Beach Pitches, and so an opportunity came up then to get more involved in professional surfing, which I did as from a filmmaker's perspective, and that led me through a long story I owned board or listeners, but it led me to my first real, I guess, professional job,
which was actually in radio, and I was promotions and publicity manager for a radio station in Sydney which was then the number one rock station to SM and I was there for five years, and you know that two SM was a citadel of rock and roll, and I learned so much and that's when I guess my first mentor came into my life amazing legendary radio kingmaker by the name of John Brennan, and he really had a
profound influence on my career. And I learned a lot about radio from Breno and I had five fantastic years at two a SM. This is a very long answer to a real short question, Ben.
Sorry, no, I'm fascinated. Just to let you know, I'm from a family of storytellers and nobody, nobody in our family ever told a short story. So and the funny thing was, I would always go and sit at the table with all of the adults as a kid and listen to my grandparents and my parents and basically anyone that was capable of telling a story, and just loved it. I loved hearing people's story. I love hearing anybody talk
about something that they feel really passionate about. I mean, I can hear that in the way you're telling your story just now. It might seem like a long answer, but I think it's fascinating for me to understand and for listeners to understand that you've really been on the
ground floor. You've watched audiences watch entertainment. You've watched how they've absorbed it, and all of these things that you've picked up along the way, and all the things you've heard from mentors have allowed you to be where you are. And for a lot of people out there, you know, people be like, oh, well, you know you've been at Foxtel for so long, and what's the backstory to that? Like, how did you get there, and I think people need to realize that you've got to do the hard yards,
which from this, that's what you're telling me. You know, you're telling me that you've got to go out there and email these people, ask if the work is there, and then prove yourself.
Absolutely.
I think that, you know, connecting with audiences, they're respected of the medium radio, television, film. Connecting with audience is paramount to anyone's success.
But all me, it goes back to being in a town halls and.
Showing movies to people and seeing the enjoyment of that brings. I think, you know, when you go back to the origins of the Traveling Picture show Man, it.
Goes back to those days.
And in radio, what I loved about IDEO was that I know was promotions manage the radio station. So I spent a lot of time in prime ovns, going around the beaches, going through the suburbs.
Really mixing with audiences.
And it still continues to this day with the fms and promotional vehicles that go out and about, and I think that for me is so key. You've got to know your audience irrespective of what the radio format is. Unless you can connect with those audiences, You're never going to really be successful in that arena. And that's what I've taken through to television, and I wouldn't have enjoyed any.
Of the success that I've had in television.
I've had those foundation years in radio and before that showing those surf movies, and even in television. One of the early lessons I learned was the importance of connecting with audiences fundamentally on a level that you could really connect and talk to people. And that's not sitting behind a reversed glass mirror while a research group's going on, and you've got to talk to people and ask them.
And when I was at Channel ten, and I was at Channel ten through the eighties through what was a successful decade for that network, and two of the programmers, Tom Warn and John Stevens used to literally doorknock. Tom Warn, who was one of the most successful television programmers in the history of Australian television, would literally doorknock up and
down the street. John Stevens would sit on his favorite stool at the bar at Balmain League's Club in Sydney and talk to blue collar workers about what they watched on television. The night before and that helped inform those two programmers about the science of creating successful shows for Ten. And I think all of that's important when you consider the fragmentation of video today in twenty twenty one.
I think that people these days, you know, people in positions like yourself, need to understand that a little bit more. You know, need to understand that going out there and talking to the community and understanding the community is.
Vital, absolutely, and that holds true to this day.
And so then I know that you went from Ten and then you got into Foxtel, So how did Foxtel happen for you?
So I, as I mentioned, I was at Ten through the eighties and it was a fantastic time to be working in Australian television, particularly Ten. Ten gets such a rough run, I think unfairly if you look back at the history of that network. The Ten network has a proud tradition of great Australian television and particularly Australian television drama.
I guess some of the younger people listening to this podcast might be aware, but certainly during the eighties the signature quality Australian stories were on the Ten network, largely through Kennedy Miller production company, responsible for series such as Vietnam, Bangkok, Hillton, Dirt Water Dynasty, the Cawra Breakout. It was an amazing
time for the Ten Network. It was also the decade, of course, most famously where Channel ten acquired Neighbors, which was on the seven network at the time and was very successful on HSV in Melbourne but not a success in Sydney on ATM and so seven walked away from the show and at the time Channel ten was running Mash five nights a week at seven o'clock for the
undeenth time. I remember the day that the boss of the ten network at the time came in, instead, we're going to pick up Neighbors, and we controversially took the show from the seven network to the Ten network. And I was head of publicity for ten at the time and we had a lot of fun we sticking it
up the opposition when we pinched Neighbors. One of the stories that I look back ben with great fondness was I organized a couple of large semi trailers to be parked outside the Channel seven studios in Sydney at Epping and I had the construction team at ten and build what looked like some of the some of the insides of the homes from Ramsey Street, and I brought the past up and we put them on the back of these trucks and we did a live cross to Good
Morning Australia and the trucks had these banners saying we're moving neighbors to a new home. And the Channel seven security guard was none the wiser. I think he probably lost his job over it. And so after that run of ten, I really wanted to go out on my own and do my own thing, and in nineteen ninety I left ten to start up my own consultancy and my first client was the boss of what was the
opposition for many years, Channel nine. So Stam Chisholm, legendary figure around the nine network, and said, I'm starting a new role with News Corporation in the UK starting up satellite television and I think.
We could do with some help.
So that really was an invitation for me to move to the UK and be part of the foundation to start Sky. So I went over there in nineteen ninety and we launched it as incredibly exciting as you can imagine, and so we created satellite television and Sky was born twenty four multi channels. It was a breathtaking change for British television viewers and that was an incredible time. And you know, of course Rupert Murdoch was very hands on with Sky in those days. So my path to Foxtel
really came about through that time at Sky. And after three years at Sky, I was then moved to Hong Kong when News Corporate quiet Star TV, and I was involved with Star and launched Channel V, the music channel as it was then, through Asia. So that was like launching a music channel in fifty three countries, which for a kid from suburban Sydney was extraordinary and pretty daunting impressive. So after Star, of course the next move was Australia and then and.
Then here we are. I mean, the main reason I wanted to chat with you is that you know, you're the man in hard of increasing folks tells Australian produced entertainment, which is quite an impressive job. What's the importance in your mind of creating Australian made shows and having ourselves be seen on screen.
I think people like me are in very very privileged positions. It's incumbent on us to ensure that we reflect our national identity and that we tap into the national conversation, or if we don't tap into the national conversation, then we should we should start on. And I think Australian storytelling is so important and I'm a big advocate.
For telling our stories.
I don't see how we can pass on our identity to the generations to come unless we're accurately reflecting the sort of Australia we're living in. I think that still holds two. I think that Australians still, by and large want to watch Australian stories. We want to see the best that the US and Britain and other parts of the world have to offer.
But we have to tell our stories about our people. You know. The one point of difference that Foxtel has with all.
Of the competition we have in the payworld is that we're an Australian company and that we commission Australian stories. And if those stories happen to get picked up by other parts of the world, that's great, but that shouldn't be the driving force. We shouldn't be driven by whether a show is seen in one hundred and fifty three countries like wentworth Is. Although that's a wonderful accolade to
have to talk about. That shouldn't be the driver. The driver should be whether we're making television that connects with our Australian audiences.
Yeah. Well, I think it's important for us to be able to be seen on screen. I think young people as well need to be seen on screen. You know, younger people are finding entertainment on different streaming services, but Foxtel really is a portal that I think is still viable for people to see themselves on screen. Yeah.
Look, I think that the interesting thing for me Ben in those formative years of Foxtel, we were the like you know, to use the expression, we were the last cab on the rank in that we would producers. It would come to us with show ideas and they were all the shows that had been rejected by seven nineteen in the public broadcasters, and we were just getting kind of getting what are we missing here? Why are we getting all the shows to the others to rejected? Why
can't we make our own mark? And there was a significant turning point I think for us when we commissioned Love My Way, it's.
My favorite show of all time. It was so amazing that you guys had picked that up, because I think in lots of ways, the other networks wouldn't have taken something that saw such flawed characters, you know, and showed people being real. I think it was an ability that Foxdelle could offer that show and that show's creators that no other network could have done.
Thank you, Yes, I mean all creditors, John Edwards and Claudia Carbon and Brendan Powell and Asher I'm an incredible team behind that show. I think that what surprised them when we commissioned the show was in all the creative sessions and all the writing rooms, just kept telling them to go further. And you know, they, like a lot of producers, they had worked in the commercial sector where there are so many guidelines about what you can and
can't do on television. We just told them to throw the rule book out and go hard and be provocative. We were the Challenger brand, as you can imagine, at the time, and we wanted to make an impact and the only way we could do that meaningfully was to give them complete creative license. And we talked to producers as about why they love working for Netflix, and they'll tell you that it's because they're given creative autonomy. I'd like to think that's what we gave those producers with
Love my Way. It's all about you've got to if you're going to engage with the creative community, you have to allow their creative vision to go to the screen. Network notes are important, but you know, if you're going to commission the show, you're commissioning someone's vision. It's like telling an author to write a book and then trying to edit what they write. You just don't do that, and you don't do it. You don't do it with television drama. And I think that's why I Love my Way work.
Thanks to my were friends. Well, I think it's worth a try. If he killed himself and he's a.
Coward, no, no, no, they've got a million dollars.
He was a drunk and a gambler and he calls them nothing.
But pay So is this chicken bult to the family cult?
This is disgusting.
What's bumped my family? That's the most important thing to me.
Now.
I love to hear me. I'm not you fank out mother, aren't you? Oh? I's not supposed to me. But what about these kids growing up? Without a famcun.
I knew you wouldn't understand, mate, because you never screw up to you, it's in human.
I think that really changed the game.
That show changed the game certainly for us, and I would like to think for Australian writers and producers and that passion that went into that show back then is still very much alive today with all of our commissioners here at the company that Love My Way is such a reference point.
You know, I was talking to Samantha Strauss on this podcast only a few weeks ago, and you know she was inspired by Love my Way. You know, that kind of writing had allowed her to sort of think outside the box and then go hard. And I watched all of in the end in one sitting, the end, sorry,
not in the end, the end. I watched it all in one sitting, and I just was blown away by how far we'd even come from Love my Way, because there was things that was happening in this new show that was groundbreaking all over again.
And certainly if you were remaking Love my Way today, you would have a lot more diversely the characters, and you would and you should be showing the modern face of Australia and I think we've been somewhat not so much with the public broadcast, but I think in the commercial world, I don't think we've accurately reflected the modern face of Australia, and I think that's important that we do. And I think we also have to be telling stories
that are resonating with younger Australians. And I mean, I think I think Australians have a lot of choice with what they watch. I think, you know, I think it's our responsibility to ensure that we're delivering stories that bring them back to Fox Sell.
Yeah, absolutely, and not to move away from scripted reality and the importance of Foxtail's show The End. Do you think we'll get a second series of that series? Do you think Samantha Strauss will come back and do another series event?
Look, I'd like to. It really depends on the story. It all comes back to story then, and there's no doubting that Samantha Strows is an exceptional writer. And if anyone can nail a great hip story, it's it's Sam. So if the story is there, we will absolutely would absolutely love to continue doing it.
I'll be there for it. That's for sure, who would you say is Foxtel's biggest competitor now?
I think any paying subscription platform is obvious. Is the obvious answer to that? To that question, I think things have changed a lot in the last few years. Free to wear television to me is very much focused around competition reality, and you know that their sweet spot is six pm to nine pm, and after that they've kind of conceded that people go to pay services. So I don't think we're really competing there in free toowear television.
Competition reality is not something that we necessarily spend a lot of time on because seven, nine and ten do it so well in our lifestyle genre. We like to think that what separates us from free to wear television is that our lifestyle shows in particular are informative, inspirational as well as entertaining, So we tend to dial down the idea of competition and dial up inspiration and I think that comes through in shows like Selling Houses, Love It.
A List, Yeah, definitely, bake off. It's the joy of that endeavor.
So competition is the consumer and how they spend their disposable income, and they've got so many choices now as to how they spend that money. Every week there's another app being launched that represents competition for Foxtail, and I think that makes us sharper. And going back to what I spoke of before, I think the Australian flavor of our content and our commissioning is more important now than ever because I think that there's so many good shows
on a number of services. You can pick any one of the streaming services and you can list off four or five must see TV shows and that includes Foxtail.
So what's going to separate us? What's going to differentiate us? It has to be.
Those shows that can see on Fox tell that you can't see anywhere else.
What about free to wear television? Though, I mean you touched on something. Then about these competition based reality shows taking up that sweet spot and the audience numbers have decreased. What do you see happening with Free to Wear in that regard? Do you think that they're can have to get better in the ways in which they tell those competition based reality TV shows or do you think they need to move away from them.
Free to wear television it's all about live eyeballs. That's where the revenue is for them. I mean the end of the day, their business model is based on how many people are watching a show at any given time so that they can deliver an against number two ad agencies who will buy that time for their clients. So it's all about live viewing for free TV. It's not about that necessarily for the subscription universe. So for free TV news, sport, competition reality requires live viewing, and for
that reason then I don't see the model changing. I think the interesting observation is the sort of competition reality in that you still have to have narrative to take audiences from one night to the next, which is why I Married at First Side is such a roaring success because it's what I would call light scripted people. You know, people aren't really from scripts, but there's certainly a narrative that keeps people their night after night after night. You
don't have that same requirement with Holy Mole. You don't have that same requirement with some of the other shows like Ultimate Tag et cetera. So I think the sort of competition reality is important. You know, certainly you know teen success off Bachelor and Bachelor at and a Celebrity. I mean, there's narrative that takes the audiences over that six week story arc that keeps people there. So competition
reality is what works for free to wear television. It's the type of competition reality that I think differentiates the winners from the losers.
You know, in hindsight, do you think that our television industry could have been faster adopting to digital?
Well, you can't repeat history, and the Australian television industry is the most competitive in the world, I think, given our scale. I mean, we just don't have the population of other English speaking territories like the United States. You know, when you think of the population size of Australia and the amount of television we have, I think television's evolved
as it has. A lot of the major players have sunk a lot of money into technology, so I think it's happened organically for all the right reasons, you know. I think that we have an industry that we should be very proud of.
We have three.
Successful commercial networks, we have two public broadcasters who I think both serve their audience as well with their charter and we've got a subscription television industry of which Foxtel is absolutely.
The pioneer product.
And now there are other competitors in market that stands up to being amongst the best in the world. And you know, I've been fortunate enough to travel around the world a lot and.
Watch television in very many markets, and I'm very proud of the fox Tail product.
I think it's I think that we have absolutely sought out the best television from around the world. And it's an interesting time that we're living in.
Having Binge for drama and sort of Kao for sport help Foxtel's subscriptions.
Well, there are two very different products with distinct personalities and catering for a completely different segment. Ko and Binge have not capitalized Foxtail in the way which you might find surprising. But people who have Binge have Binge because they are of a segment where Binge is are more affordable product. They are probably surfing between streaming services a lot more than a Foxtel customer would do. The Foxtel customer.
This is anecdotal, but I can tell you that we have a very loyal customer base and they love the technology of Foxtail. They love the convenience of the IQ, they love the ability to press pause, rewind, watch, on demand, you know, to use a pizza analogy. Foxtel is all you can eat, So there's something there for everyone in the household. And it's a family product. Foxtail, whether it be sport or news, or lifestyle or entertainment, movies, boxtellers,
the complete package. Those people for Binge, they're buying a pure entertainment product. Those who are buying Kore buying a pure sports product. The strategy, which is I think a very sound one, is to diversify our business to meet changing marketplace that are looking for alternatives. And both Ko and Binge have been incredible success stories.
Well you know, at the moment, I am obsessed with Binge. I went to a screening of Mayor of Eastown in Melbourne, a screening of the first two episodes, and I knew nothing about the series. I went in with my best friend and we were absolutely blown away. I think it's probably Kate Winslet's best role today, which is a really hard thing to say because she has just a back catalog of endless work that's just a masterclass. But Mayor
of Eastown for Binge. I'm anyone listening to this go and get Bin straight away, just for this show, like, it's just so addictive. What episode are you up to in Mayor of Eastown?
My money up to episode three. But Mayor of Eastown has blowness away in terms of performance numbers. It's so close to doing the sort of numbers that The Undoing did, and The Undoing has been the most successful drama outside of Game of Thrones, the most successful drama launch ever in the history of Foxtown. And Mayor of Eastown is going to becoming a very very close sect quite extraordinary, And I agree with you, Ben, I think Kate Winslet's is going to win every award.
I just from the very moment this character emerged on screen, it wasn't Kate Winslett, you know, it was somebody who you know. Just the mannerisms, with everything that Mayor does through this show is just so relatable in this kind of attractive but repulsive way. It's magnificent television. And I just keep thinking about how far we've come from having characters and stories that you used to only see in the cinema now being accessible and available on programs like bingch It's unbelievable.
I think certainly the pandemic changed a lot of things forever, and we always knew that there was great storytelling on television through the supplies like HBO. But I think that the pandemic has certainly convinced a lot of people that you don't have to go to the cinema have a great story. I think cinema will always have its place, and it's a fantastic experience, big screen experience for that.
But the way we're getting big screen TV's at home now and it's just changed dramatically in terms of our in terms of our viewing habits.
I think there needs to be a binge cinema because watching the first two episodes of Mayor of Eastown in the cinema was amazing, and I just think there should be a binge cinema. I wonder if something like that can happen. I mean, I know you're saying people are having home cinemas and having big screens, but that communal experience of being in a cinema and watching this sort of event television. I wonder if there's a place for that.
Well, it might take you back to those days of showing movies in those.
Town halls exactly right, you know, did HBO and Binge like, you know, did that come along at the right time for Foxtel. I mean, when did that deal start to evolve.
It's no secret that there was a very competitive hitch happening with one of the other players in the market. And so you know, we've got an amazing head of content at Foxtel, Amandalaying our head of Content and commercial and is an amazing negotiator.
That was a hard fought.
Win to retain HBO and in the new deal we have with Wornermedia, we have all of the HBO and HBO Max products. So we knew it was an important deal to get because not only would it continue the great legacy that we had with HBO for Foxtel, but it would also provide us with exceptional content and HBO Max or Binge and HBO Max in the US and Binge here in Australia very much aimed at the same segment.
So you know, females eighteen to four b that's kind of the target group HBO Max and the target group her Binge.
Yeah. Absolutely, Now I need to talk Housewives. I'm loving the new cast. By the way, I was lucky enough to be there with you for the launch in Melbourne. It was just such a magnificent day. I was just so good to be able to see these women who were so impressive. But I want to ask, you know, how did it go with gene Leana when she gave you the news that she wouldn't be returning to Real Housewives. I remember on the day you might have said something
like you'd gone out to a lunch. How did Gina's exit from that show go down with you?
Look? It was it was tough news to receive that.
She indicated to the producer's match box that she didn't want to continue. Very early on when the border, when the border restrictions were lifted, I took one of the first flights to Melbourne to meet with Gina and we had a really terrific afternoon talking about her life and how things have changed for her through the pandemic.
And I came away from that meeting.
You know, you come away from meetings like that with talent sometimes when you know that they've made the right decision for them and for their happiness. And I knew after that meeting that there was no way of convincing her to stay with the show. She rediscovered her love and passion for the law. The pandemic had provided an opportunity for her to continue her legal practice virtually, and she really got a lot of great personal reward from that. And you know, she just said to me that she
just didn't want to be a celebrity anymore. And when you hear it from someone like Gina, who's an intelligent woman who really does have a great empathy for people and for the people she represents in legal matters, I related to that. And for me then it wasn't so much about can I talk her around? It was about how are we going to evolve the show without her? And that really became for me over the summer of twenty twenty one, the conundrum how.
Do we move forward?
And I went back to Gina and Lydia on a number of occasions and thought, you know, can we do it be special together? Can we get you back of a handover? But Gina had moved on, and she'd moved on emotionally and in every way. So look, I think you've just got to really you've got to trust the producers that you surround yourself with that the show will
survive without the individual. And how many times have we seen that on Australian television over many, many years, we've got so many countless examples of where talent have left shows and the shows have continued to great success. And the most recent example, of course is Master Chef. So it was not so much about having remorse for Gina not doing the show. It was about how can we recast it so that we've got some really fantastic, compelling new characters for people to relate to.
Did she say to you when she walked away, good luck with your deck of cards? When she walked away from that meeting, good.
Luck with your deck of cards, because that's all you've got is a deck of cards.
That are back to Topple And no. No.
In fact, Gina gave me a lot of very valuable actually on the show, and she said to me, and we talked about why Melbourne was such a great success and why Sydney didn't work, and she had very I think informed views that I took from her about why one work why one didn't, And the overriding theme that came through from those discussions was importance of humor. And she said, you know, you've got to keep it real, but keep the humor there.
Brian that's important.
As for the show, all I can tell you is where three weeks in and the fireworks are already started.
And I'm excited for the new cast.
It's great to have Janet and Jackie and Gamble back.
I think fans of.
The show will love those three Janets of shitst by her own edition. But the new girls, I think, I think they're going to give a fantastic insight into what it means to be a real housewife of Melbourne in twenty twenty one. The world has changed, the world has moved on, and I think in the same way, the goggle Box is very reflective of the conversations that are happening around Australia about what we watch on television.
I'm certain that Real Housewives.
Will also, I think, be fairly accurate representation how people are living their lives post COVID.
Oh absolutely. You know, what do you think went wrong with that Sydney version? In your mind? And Sydney didn't get played in America? You know it was at the end of the relationship between Australian housewives being played in America? Or does Melbourne still get to be played overseas on Bravo.
Melbourne's Housewives and Melbourne still plays very successfully on Bravo. Sydney Housewives did not get picked up by Bravo, and I think, you.
Know, look, you've got to be honest.
We got the casting wrong and chemistry is so important when it comes to these kind of shows. I think the mistake was that the Sydney women felt like they had to perform to a certain way and that it wasn't authentic, lacked authenticity, and I think they were just being aggressive with each other for the of being aggressive, and it came across as too nasty. And you know,
audiences are Australian audiences. They're very honest with their assessment and they're appraisal of what they watch on television.
And it just didn't gel.
So no reboot of Sydney happening anytime soon.
Housewives of Melbourne is our is the show that they're putting all our focus into. It's the most successful and enduring franchise and I see it running for many years to come.
You know, I thought Joel Creesy was really great at hosting that Melbourne Media launch just a few weeks ago. Is there any chance that he might replace Alex Perry.
I'm a huge fan of Joel Creasy. In fact, I caught up with he and his manager last week. You know, the thing that I will say is this, that you talk to people about what we lack on Australian television. Everyone will tell you it's a primetime show that is a fantastic vehicle for our talent, whether they be musicians, actors, celebrities, sports people.
The promoter will.
Tell you that the only vehicle they have when they've got touring acts is the breakfast shows or the Project. And I think we are desperately in need of a weekly prime time variety show and if there's one person who should host it, it's Joel Creasy.
I think we need to see more young TV hosts and I think what's interesting about Joel not already in that role is that, you know, maybe there is a bit of a step still to go to having an LGBTI host. I mean, in America there's Allen DeGeneres or Andy Cohen. You know, both of those are very prominent LGBTI personalities hosting shows. And in Australia don't necessarily know if we've seen that.
No, we haven't, and we tend to categorize or pigeonhole people. So we go, Okay, you're funny, so we're putting you in a funny show. But we've never actually said you're funny, and you're smart, and you're a great conversationalist and you're a great interviewer. Let's create something different.
Yeah, I think so. And I think Joel Creasy has some what's interesting about him is he has some social intelligence that is not seen in other presenters and other interviewers. And I think that we've for so long just said you're a comedian, you know, And I think we need to delve a little bit deeper with some of the talent that we have in this country who are more capable.
I agree, And you know, again, you know that's where Channel thirty one was so important.
Platform, wasn't it?
Oh?
Absolutely, and so many others.
So we have to absolutely as an industry ensure that we have an opportunity for incubation and for ideas, and we have to take risks. You know, so much of television is safe, but we need to take some risks and let some things fail. You know, someone told me once at eighty percent of television is failure we need to be braver. We need to be bolder. And look, it's been very unusual time the last two years. The networks have been hurting commercially. Money's not as free as
it once was. But I don't think we should ever step away from being bold, and we should never step away from being experimental, and certainly never step away from being boring.
Absolutely here here to that. Absolutely Can I bribe you at all to keep Wentworth on television? You know, we have talked about the last two seasons. It's promoted as the last two seasons. We've seen the first part of that and there's going to be this final series that will be happening in the back end of this year. Can I bribe you in any means, in any way to keep that show on television.
I appreciate your devotion to the show.
It's certainly computed that the history of Australian television. I'm proud of that Wentworth will be up there as one of the signature series that have come out of this country. I think it's played its last hard. I think it's best to go out on top. I think that we really explored so many stories that I'd like to tie a nice bow on the box and have other stories to tell. And it's my hope that Fox can continue to work with the creative team behind Wentworth on an
exciting new drama out of Victoria. And we're certainly well advanced in those discussions. So you I'd like to convince you to transfer your love and devotion to something new that we'll have on screen soon.
Oh. Absolutely, And then would be remissive me not to ask you this question, but Game of Thrones fans the anticipation for this upcoming prequel, House of the Dragon, has that been cemented in for Foxtail? Have you locked that show? Locked that show in?
That's absolutely going to be, if not the most important launch of twenty twenty two, it will certainly be up there. But that's absolutely in our arsenal. We have a long term output arrangement with HBO and the Game of Thrones franchise and House of Dragon. As this prequel will be known, we'll absolutely spearhead our program offering for twenty twenty two.
Well, people are very excited about that. You know, another show that is so a part of Foxtel and has been kicking on now. I think it's on its like thirteenth series is goggle Box, which you've been very instrumental with working on that show the whole way through. Did you expect that show to be as popular as it is?
No, I didn't, to be honest.
In fact, when I was attending mip in Khan, the show had been on an air in the UK, I think it was about two years and the commercial networks here all took a look at it. But won't surprise you Ben that their view was, well, why would we commission a show where we were going to include content from our opposition?
Kind of When I got that sense from being at the market.
I thought, well, you know what, seven nine to ten might not do this show because they don't want to promote shows from another network, But I think this is the kind of show that we'll get a lot of talk ability in Australia because it felt to me like it was a show that very much played down the middle.
You could reflect.
We talked before in this podcast about the changing face of Australia and diversity on screen. I knew that in casting goggle Box, we could very quickly, I think, show what contemporary Australian family life or home life is life and have some fun at doing it, and you know, because where Foxtel, we can take some license and we can go hard and we can be controversial, and the networks aren't going to really worry that we're lifting content from them because you know, we are not in one
hundred percent of harms. And so for me, it was a gamble. I thought of we'd maybe get two or three seasons out of it. I had no idea that it would run this long. And it's been an incredible success story for us. And as you know, we on sell the show to ten and it's one of their top rating shows every week. And I think Shane, who produced the show for us, are a David McDonald who's an extraordinary producer. You know, I think they get it
just right. It's a show that we spend a lot of time on because of casting and crafting each week, and the selection of shows that the families look at is really carefully considered. For me, the segments at work most effectively are those that really encourage a debate in the household, and that would be a compelling documentary, or a news and current affairs show, or a great movie that people can reminisce with it's got such an authenticity about it, goggle Box, and I'm happy to share with you.
We haven't announced it, but I'm happy to share with you that we will be doing a celebrity edition of goggle Box in an upcoming season and we're having a lot of fun pasting that.
Oh wow, everyone's been talking about it, but there's the official confirmation while we talk about that. I think Anthony Clear and Tim Campbell would be very good on that show. I don't know those boys personally, but I watched them doing that mimicking stuff and I just think that they'd be great.
I think there's a great formatt in the lips and I've told them that. And yes, Anthony and Tim are absolutely on our wide card the celebrity Gogglebots.
You know what's interesting about goggle Box as well as we've seen faces popular face on that show come and go, do you yourself get attached the families? And is there a family that or a household that you now miss that's gone?
No, because I think that I think it's healthy for the show to always review the households. And you know, look, it's a big imposition on them, to be frank, it's a lot of time that they have to devote to watching television and reviewing television, and I think it's like any great ensemble piece bend you know, you can interchange, and so do we miss.
I mean, of.
Course there are people who have a deep affection for the Goggle Bops, but it's.
A big country. There are a lot of people who love watching television.
I don't think there's any shortage of opportunities to cast the show.
Moving into the future.
I think when you look at the makeup of the current households of Goggle Bops, I think it's a very interesting and reflection of Australia in twenty twenty one. I don't see the show in any way waning just goes from strength to strength. I had Shine in the office here yesterday. We were talking about it and you asked me, Am, I surprise. They are more surprised. I mean, here's a show that lasted one season in the United States. It was called The People's Couch and it was on Bravo
and it just failed dismally. So it's fantastic that here we are fourteen seasons in and it's still as strong as ever. I think there's something in the fact that we don't run it four nights a week, forty weeks of a year.
How do you respond to rumors about foxtowl? I know that you like to keep up with the industry gossip and you keep your finger on the pulse. But when you hear something that's completely off tap, you know, how do you deal with that? Do you just ignore it or do you try and respond to it in the public.
Being an ex publicist, I always believe in having open conversations with press and with journalists, and I always engage with journos. I always take their calls. If I can't answer something honestly, I'll say I can't answer the quest uestion, or I can't address the question. If they report something that's inaccurate or false about Foxtell, I'm the first person to defend the organization, and I you know, there are all sorts of the years that people have about our business,
and it's not just out but every business. I don't think that ignoring a question from a journalist serves in the organization. Journalists are there to do a job, and you should answer a question honestly. You should and if you can't answer the question, you should say you can't answer the question.
Having an opening conversation is a sign of intelligence.
I think yeah.
As I say, I think being in PR for as long as I was, you've got to have a respectful relationship with the journals, and you've got to have a respectful relationship with your competitors. And we've talked podcast about my mentors, and I identified John Brennan and Sam Chisholm and amongst them. But Sam was always full of great one liners and I learned so much from him, particularly
at Sky. But one of his most famous lines Ben was compete by day, dying by night, and I've always taken that on board and I think that's a very healthy position to have. And I'm very happy to say that in this industry. I have very strong cordial relations with all of the players in Australian television and whether they be in Free TV or our colleagues at STAN
or Amazon or Netflix. Yes, we inverted commas compete by day, but we also get together socially, and I think that's important for the health of the industry because at the end of the day, we're all doing our job to entertain Australians, in form Australians, and the best thing we can do is the best job we can do for our respective organizations. And I think if we all do that, the win it will be the consumer.
What's a funny story? And this is something I ask everybody, but what's a funny story that you can tell from behind this scenes of Foxtel over the years? You know something when someone goes, oh, what do you do for work? And you'll tell them what you do. Is there something that you've been privy to a bit of a funny story, bit of a funny anecdote I guess from working at Foxtel over the years.
I'll tell you the one that got away.
During our very first few years, we had a half hour magazine show called in Fashion and Series one was hosted by Hugh Jackman and Melissa Foyer. But what is a little known fact is that the guy who replaced him as the co host was Keith Ledger. He did four episodes of the show and he phoned me up and asked to come to see me.
And he came to my.
Office at Foxtel we were then based down at Darling Harbor in Sydney, and said to me, I've just been offered a movie from Disney and I'd like to take it, but I've got this twelve month contract with you, and I'm hoping you'll let me out of the contract. And how can you turn around to a young Australian kid who has been given an opportunity to go to Hollywood? And so I spoke with his manager and said that Heath wants to stop doing in fashion and I'm not going to stand it his way, so I'm happy to
let him go. He went to LA and did there's the ten things I knew about you?
I know what ten things I hate about you?
Yep, Yeah, And there you go.
And I've still got as we're sitting here doing this podcast, I've got a rack of TV shows, great TV moments and Foxtail's twenty five years and amongst them is in Fashion with Hugh Jackman, in Fashion with Heath Ledger. And I don't think a lot of people know that. You know, in the archives of Foxtel, amongst everything here, you know Beauty and the Beast, Australia's Next Top Model, Project, Runway
with Chrissy Hines, you name it. Are sitting these this little magazine show about fashion with a News Corp journalist in the SA Joya and her co host being two of the greatest male stars able to come out of the country.
Our biggest exports. Had you said to him, no, you've got to finish this show, we may never have been able to appreciate all that Heath Ledger was.
There is funny moments, right, I mean, I'm sure every network in the world has stories like them.
Oh that's a good one though. The one that got away Heath Ledger absolutely amazing. I just want to say thank you so much for taking the time to have this chat. I commend you for always looking for original content. I feel confident that you will continue to bring us some original content here in Australia and we can all be reflected on screen, which I think is really powerful. So thank you so much for being able to join us today.
Thanks very much, Ben, I really enjoyed the chat.