It's in the news today, but it was actually on TV Reload, the podcast.
Last deep their line Welcome back to TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris and this is your podcast to get all the insight goss on the popular TV shows you may be watching from around the world. Undeniably, our TV sets are a major part of our home entertainment and very little is known about how our favorite shows
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of this show as I possibly can. On today's podcast, I have this week's booted castaways from Australian Survivor Heroes Versus Villains and what a shock to see Simon Me and Nina Twine snuff their torches and join the final jury council. With only two episodes left and a finale upon us. There is a lot to unpack with these guys. Simon was an underdog the whole way through the competition, and with so much support from fans and multiple storylines going on, I simply can't wait to hear what Simon
has to say. Simon will talk about his ability to keep going while all the odds were against him. We will talk about Simon's frustrations with George and how he kept his cool, and Simon will also openly discuss his alpha male status and why he isn't afraid to cry. Nina will then join me to discuss her family ties to Survivor and what her mom thought of her time
back on the show. Nina will talk about her alliances and why she is frustrated with some of the things we didn't see from her earlier work on the Original Heroes Tribe. I'll even find out what Nina thought might have happened in Blood Versus Water had she not been injured. Plus, we will get plenty of exclusives from behind the scenes from both Simon and Nina, including some interesting takes on the seventh week of Australian Survivor Heroes Versus Villains which
you could now catch up on on ten play. Anyway, let's bring Simon into the podcast. I'm a huge Simon fan and I hope you enjoy his insights into the way in which his journey evolved on the most exciting series of Australian Survivor yet. I just want to say, what a crazy ride this series has been for you compared to last time.
Yeah, just a crazy place that I found myself in. To make it as far as I did in the way that I did is just blown my mind.
How have you felt watching it back?
I'm exhausted. I am well and truly exhausted because that rollercoaster that I was on. I felt every and relived every moment that I did out there. I had some huge highs and some huge lows. Everything I tried to do. Everything I touched turned to ash, Like it was just so heartbreaking, like I couldn't get anything right, but I didn't stop trying. I definitely found out how resilient I was.
I think it's really powerful and I think it's really important to never give up. I think that inspires us all to like when things keep going to shit, you just got to keep trying new things.
And I really feel for like my poor mother and like everyone else who's really been in my corner from the start, because it has not been easy for him to watch it all back. But it is so important. Like at the end of the days, it is a game, and it's just a game, but I love it so much and it means so much to me. And I was never just going to roll over and die. And you still have to have some fun like on the way through, so you have to be resilient, you have
to kind of just come up with another plan. I just had to keep going. I had to find a way to keep going. And like I had nothing that like a grab, that was any like any consistency. It was all just literally just falling through my fingertips. It was hilarious to you to watch it all back, but it's like, when is something going to go right for me? But it's almost made it to the final five and it ends up being a non a limits like it's just such a I don't know. It just goes to
show that it wasn't meant to be. But at the same time, it was someone out there was looking out for me.
How does Season one Simon Me compare to Season two, will you go back and be like, I'm never watching Brains versus broad again, Like, what's the relationship you've got mentally with both seasons.
Yeah, I've never watched Braun back again. I just wind my Oh. I watched it through once. It was great. I just find it, like it's so cringe worthy just watching watching myself on TV in general, and I know, like, and it's funny, like some of the stuff that came out of my mouth and the edit that I got. You know, I'd played this game even if it wasn't on TV, and it wasn't you know, it wasn't recorded
and broadcast to the nation. So yeah, it's it's a funny thing to be a part of, and you know, to watch because I see this person and this character and I want them to succeed. I want the best for them, and it's really hard watching them fail and you know, fall to the ground, flood on their face with their hands tied behind their back, but seeing that person like get up and keep trying, like I'm really
proud of that person at the same time. So yeah, I'm proud of what I did and what I achieved and just did it in a way that I never thought it would have been possible.
Well, I had tears in my eyes when you were eliminated. I didn't see it coming. It was always in my vision board that you would be there, right, and I kept vision boarding it to the point where I believed my own lies and I was like, Simon will be in the finale. And then when you left, I literally was sitting there on the couch with tears in my eyes, and my best friend, who doesn't watch the show, looked at me and was like, do you think you're too invested in this show?
Yeah? It was just like it was just crazy, Like, you know, you manage to keep scraping through and keep on getting by, and yeah, it got to the point where I was I believe that if I could just scrape through a couple more than I have a real crack at winning this thing.
People want to go back on this show.
So did you have a postgame conversation last time and did they say to you, mate, we're going to reinvest in this story.
There wasn't. There wasn't a direct one. But one of the best things that probably could have happened to me was to go home with two lights. Just a really easy storyline for people to be like, hey, he's the guy who went home with two idols and you know he didn't make merge and now he's got back for revenge. It just it felt like it was going to happen, Like I didn't even need to manifest it into reality.
So on a long enough scale of time that would have come to fruition, which is which you can't say for everyone. So that's kind of really cool there, and it just timing's kind of worked out, and you know, the season was there, and opportunity to be a villain like that was just just fun. So I threw myself into it and the rest is history.
What did you try and do differently this time around? Because I don't know if you've listened to my podcast, but I've sort of said a few things about it, and I'm like, Simon doesn't really feel to me like he's trying to do anything that different, Like he's still bossing everyone around at the start, and.
It's hard to take control.
I mean, are you literally just turning up on this show doing the exact same thing and hoping it sticks better. What's your relationship with that? Do you feel like you're trying to do things differently.
I tried to do some things differently, but I some things I didn't like. I still played with passion. I still played with my heart on my sleeve. And you leant into the game and made the most of the experience. The big thing for me coming in was like just setting things up. I needed the tribe voting unanimously at the start. I worked over time to make that happen. I didn't really care who was going home as long
as it was on the returning. At the start, I just needed to kind of like get in with everyone, like I don't feel like I was. I was like embossy like as as such, Like I wanted to make people feel empowered and included, and I made sure I had it like a personal relationship with everyone, and they did end up end up seeing that where it's like, you know, you look like I am, and they'll look the way I do, and you you know, everyone's pushing
you into that leadership position. And when you've got a job to do, like when you're making the shelter and it's like, oh, this guy's played before, this guy's a chippy, and everyone else is running off and doing having you know, stratchats from day one, it's like, just get in and get it done. Like those cards are up in your hand. You just got to play with it, deal with it.
So everyone automatically thought I was the leader. Geordie's pushing me into that position as well, and you just you just have to like try to bring people up and bring them along with you and make them feeling included as best you can. So yeah, like I did a couple of little like different things there, but like when the tribe I was on, I didn't have a lot of options, Like it just was was forced that way, and you just have to do what you can to
the best of your ability. It set me up well enough to have it all fall apart in my hands, So I think the cookie idol might have had something to do with that as well.
Well.
Non negotiable was you know, leaving with any idols like just cannot do that. But I felt like with that cookie idol, they do you feel like this as well? Do you feel like they've kind of set you up? Because you know, you have to really think about the fact that it didn't come with instructions. It was fair to believe it was an idol, and it was fair to see that, it was fair to say that you were going.
To find it.
Do you think that they knew that you had a strange past relationship with idols and set you up to have a bit of a I guess a cafuckus with that whole thing. Ah, yes, in a word, o't a word, so yeah so in a word.
Aha. Look, but I do feel like you know that was that was meant to happen, And I kind of like, you know, you're wishing, you're always hoping you find an idol, but like God was haunting me in the back of my mind. But let's just say I feel like I was helped over the line with the survivor gods because I definitely had questions around what is this, like the green official emblem, that had to be something important, Like that's not just a clue, Like that's got to be
something more. If you had found it in the rice or the beans like Ben did, like one hundred percent, I reckon like there's something else to it there, but you're not having any paperwork and nothing, you know, nothing there, but still finding in a reward there was enough things to kind of put me on the fence and get
me excited about that there's still enough red flags. But then I just had enough of a nudge in the right direction to then be like, Okay, it is what it is, this is happening, and all my questions were put to rest and we were on from there and got it made for some entertaining TV, didn't it, Because oh my god, what you can't You can't script that, just watch it all happen around me. I just couldn't believe it, Like it was so crazy.
I called it Shakespearean because like, you're right, you couldn't have scripted that. But talking about scripting things, my favorite Simon moment, favorite for you for the season was you
rewording your Batman quote. I just thought that was so good because in my mind, if you've been on reality TV, no matter who you are, and you'll lie to yourself about this, but you always think I'll go back the first time around, you don't really know reality television, and then you go back and watch it and it all seems like you could probably control things a little bit better. Yeah, what was your relationship with scripting some things? Because some of your quotes are phenomenal and.
Yeah, it came out really well.
Were you thinking that before going into the show, that you're going to script things in your own mind and come out with these one liners.
Look, there are little bits and pieces. Yeah, like I know that, you know, you got to lean into the theme, right, Like heroes, it's such a fun theme. It's being villains, like it's permission to have fun with that. In my opening interview, I gave that you that one liner saying, you know in Survivor and for me, it's like you
start as a villain. So I flipped it on purpose, like the game of Survivor, you know, you either die villain or you live long enough to see something come a hero because the hero always wins, and you know, so that's always. And then like in my opening chat, the producer actually asked me to flip it around the other way. Can we get both lines? So that was
like before the game started and stuff like that. And then like just in that moment, I actually I heard George, like George would edit himself all the time, just out there like in the middle of the senses, just stop and go again. And it's like I just had this realization. It's like we are not like making TV at times like that. And then like, let screw it up that line,
and you know, I was excited. I was excited to say it, like you know it kind of like the timing felt right, and yeah, we actually we had a moment where the audio was kind of was lost and we you know, did that that kind of happened. Happened again, but like just at that moment was there and like it just it happened, and like as soon as I screwed it up, I'm like, oh my god, you know, you know what, I'll just do it again. I'll just go for it again and think that they'll edit it out.
And god, it was just one of like the comedic gold pieces that like stayed in there, and like it was just you know that all the kerfuffles that left in that made my characters so enjoyable. And you know, I think that kind of it's a little bit endearing because you know, I was trying so hard and you see you fail, Like it is a nice kind of new balance to see, I don't know, to see like the alpha male like not just have all the success all the time. So that's kind of like a nice little balance there.
Well, speaking about being the alpha male, then you would cry did you get a lot of feedback on that from the online community, because inside the show it felt like people are like, oh my god, it's Simon crying.
Where the audience loved it.
This game means something to me, Like I care about it and you've got nothing else like stimulating you and like you the only twenty four people who get a crack at that. Just be in it, be invested, Like you've given up so much to be there, how are you not? And like, yeah, I am an emotional person. I do wear my heart on my sleeve. And look, one comment I read on Reddit was like, once you see, once you realize that Simon is just a nerd stuck in a jock's body, you will never watch the show
the same way. And I've never felt more understood.
This is an amazing quality. I think that you have. That kind of stuff was all a part of how you endeared yourself to the audience.
And you know what, that's just me, Like I wear my heart on my sleeve. I am, I am passionate, I am emotional. I do cry quite a lot in my in my real, real, real life. And I think it's important to be in touch with your emotions and yeah. It kind of breaks down a few stereotypes as well, like being someone being an awful looking male, like it is important to being in touch with that. It's just it's who I am. So that was not ever a ploy, Like it's it's raw.
No, you can't fake that. I mean, I get it.
You can't fake that.
Yeah, I can't fake that.
If you watch people cry on reality TV, when they're trying to cry, there's never any tears where with you. It was a very authentic moment, and that's where reality TV works the best, is when you're connecting to something on television that you genuinely believe that you're getting that fly in the wall moment.
There's an additional scene on templay that got uploaded last night and it's like, you know, Simon Simon says, I was like it's Simon as well, that we're just living in it, and Liz gives a confessional where she's kind of like a little bit shocked that like Simon's won this immunity challenge and he's crying. She's like she just
like didn't get it, and like I get it. If you're not like you know, you don't come out as a you know, as a first timer, you know, you haven't watched a bunch of before, it doesn't mean as
much to you. She was very confused by why I was so emotional about winning an immunity necklace, and but she didn't have the context about what it means to have this once in a lifetime opportunity and what it means to be there, and what it meant to me and my journey growing up as a as a kid watching Suvivor, Like I watched the US ones as a kid, and you know, as a ten year old, I loved the challenges. That's why I fell in love with it, and I came to fall in love with a strategy,
the social side of things. So that was just such a wholesome moment for me. But if you don't understand that,
you don't kind of get it there. And so like I really having that opportunity and being a fan, I always felt like I've got to make the most of being out there and represent all the people on the couch who have applied or wanted to go at this game, and to appreciate it in the moment because like all these new players and you know, you go out there, they have a new appreciation for it, but only after
the fact. It's like, this is your moment. Now we are here, now, do not waste this, And that's why you come out and so many people like, yeah, I'd love to return. I can't wait to return, being like you just missed your opportunity, Like that was that was it?
Yeah, But you know, I'm not a psychologist. I'm going to try and step around this as best I can. As much as you represented the alpha male, you then showed a sensitivity that is related to being female, and then that was the opposite for Liz, Like I think the same thing happened where she's this beautiful woman, but
then she had some alpha male tendencies about her. It's just packaging things up differently and showing how far we've come in twenty twenty three that what you see is not always what you get.
And I think that's a beautiful part of the game, is right. You get a you get such a cross section of society and people from such different backgrounds and views on it all like it it's really incredible. And I've been blown away by Liz and the fact that she could be so blunt, so sharp and just call a spade a spade and tell her tell us how it was, and complain about food and complain about me and her. Oh you can play about other people but just be so blunt and thought about it and be
able to get away with it. And it's just like it's just such a weird dynamic, and the dynamic of people changes every time, because that in twenty sixteen Liz would have been like a first boot, but you know it, it changes so much the people that are out there, and how like you know that cross section of society when they come together, like you kind of a predicted And that's just kind of the magic of the show and of reality TV, right, Like it makes it special when you come.
I mean, Survivors.
Still it's owning some of the fibers of reality television still twenty years later. There's very few shows that we have in reality TV that are pre filmed, prepackaged and put together, but still on the essence of it being the real realities of what you're watching. I feel like with this show, we are still being given the truth behind who you will are and a truth behind how it all came down.
Yeah, I know, I do believe that. I think they've done a great job of editing this season and pointing all together. It's just been it's been awesome to see and look, I think that in terms of BLA I can speak on my journey, like it was really hard watching me at the start and being dehumanized a little bit, like the real me wasn't really shown. But like I believe that on a long enough period of time, you can't hide the real you. So the person that the sigmon that you see at the end the same sign
that I was out there the whole time. It's the same sign that everyone hated at the start, and then even I was watching him like he let us a flog, you know. So it's like when you over that, like, I'm glad I was able to develop my develop my character and have that story told and it kind of completes you there. So the fact that I was able to have that and have that shown like that was
that was really cool. And they do a good job of being able to communicate that and not everyone does it, but as a whole, I think the Survivor and the crew have done such a good job of bringing that to life.
I love you on social media because I feel like you are still the sign and that we see on television. So often do we watch shows where we then follow them as well, and then we see a different side to them. They're very different where I feel like what you're tweeting and what you're posting on Instagram all feels like it's connected to the narrative of who you are and it makes us go, oh, he is that guy.
But you did tweet this one thing with JLP on Twitter where you said, you know, waiting to tell people that this was all planned and this is a strategy. I was playing to the bottom. I can't remember I'm paraphrasing here with that.
Yeah, yeah, but what did.
You mean by that? I mean, what were you waiting to tell Australia that wasn't being shown, you know at that time and to.
The start of that, like I, you know, I had to lean in, Like when when your carriage is getting ragged through the mard, you have to have some fun with it, and you know, you got to take the piss out of yourself. That's kind of a bit of like a you know, that's the endearing thing you bring
yourself back down to size. The jail peachweek was like I felt like it was being you know, kind of being kicked a little bit when I was when I was down and not being able to like show my side of the story where like, you know, yeah, I didn't have a lot of control, and you know, yes I was on the bottom, but like I was actively playing to the bottom at that stage, like coming into Merge, I, you know, I chose to withdraw from conversations, to let them all run off and do their thing and stuff.
So I I wanted to manage my threat level and to do that, I pushed myself to have no agency and it was really hard to not like run out and be part of those conversations, but it was important for me to actually it enabled me to matge it, to manage my threat level and get and put myself in a position where like I'm in halfway through Merge, I'm a big challenge threat, but I'm not a threat at all in this game, and everyone on the jury
is agreeing and barracking for me to win. Like it was such a unique position for me, and it's hard not explaining some of those things at the time, and when it's like, you know, you just like this lovable himbo as it's kind of coming across like you you want to defend some of the things that you kind of do and have done. Yeah, you know at the time, it's just frustrating, but yeah, it is what it is.
And that's kind of the part, like you know, you get to play that game and you do forego control and you just have to know rather the lightning at times, and yeah, it's hard, but it is what it is.
Well, Sean was saying to me when I asked him about this, because you know, as he was eliminated, that was when the tweet came out, and he said, well, I don't really know whether that's true because why would anyone play to the bottom. And then I want to throw something on top of that to sort of push that a little bit to the side of bearing that in mind, and that is that is there any truth
that maybe there wasn't that much strategy. But now when you look back and this happens in real life, this happens to me as well, where I'll be like, I had no idea what I was doing, but then when I looked back, it looked like I always planned that.
So I'm just going to say that's what it is.
Yeah, So that there's definitely like like like little bits and pieces of it, Like I as soon as we got to merge, I'm like managed for a level pull back, pull back, But like every time I tried to do something, I wanted to be part of something, so like I was, I wanted it to change and I wanted it to blow right open and part of the whole, like but it never never worked for me. So it's like, as I kept, look, if you try to take a step and keep going back to the bottom, like it wasn't
the worst thing. So I'd like be I'd have to pick my avenue about where I take my next step. But you know, when you hit your head, try to try to try to get off the floor, like it's always tough. Yeah, Like there's definitely a little bit of like a retrospective. I guess you're looking back being but you notice that trend. It's like, okay, well that's not working for me. But I was on the Vigilantes, but I was still on the in the bottom there. I never wanted to take control of an alliance like I
wanted to like join the bottom. So it was you know, it wasn't like I was trying to like put myself in the premiere position because it just was it's never going to happen, So like I just just enough to be able to get through to like scrape in to be like you guys battle it out above me. But you know, it really helped me manage my threat level there. So yeah, and look at it worked.
Then I think as well that there's another way of looking at that, and that is that you know, was it a strategy to always be in the bottom or did you just have no choice?
Yeah? It was. Look, I had no choice. It was made. My decision was made for me. With the Cookie Idol being a fake idol, I burnt trust with everyone. I burnt trust a little heroes, and I ended up in that position. So when I ended up down there and no one trusted me, I played that up. So you know, I'm like, this is where I am now, and I wasn't. I didn't want to go like back up. I'm like, I want to like, let's let's keep this on the
bottom for now. So like, yeah, my bed was made, and I had to live with the consequences of my actions or the Cookie Idol as it crumbled my way. And that's that's where I was that's where I ended up at Merged when no one won. You wanted a bar of me, and I was, yeah, just on the bottom.
I think we have to just briefly talk about the most famous tribal council in the history of survivor from around the world, and that I show down with you and George.
It was such an iconic moment of television. You know.
I think a lot of people were saying, you know, how did you not knock George out? Because there's two ways to look at any story, but it did sort of look like he was really antagon you in that situation. How do you I mean, it just seems like that relationship that you have with George could be really toxic at times. Were you always able to say this is just a game, this is just a game, or were there times where you were thinking, I'm really going to have to tell this man that this is not okay.
It was really hard, and I felt like I was actually on the defense of the whole time, like I had to be reactive to the way that George was acting and coming at me like I did. I felt like I didn't have an option, and so it was the second pilot the question.
I just I just feel like, you know, he was definitely antagonizing you, min you his lines back to you and he's antagonizing of you was beautiful television. It was poetry, like he's so good at it, so good at it, so like, I absolutely I'm not taking him to task on that. I'm just talking about you and the universe because I could Mom was antagonizing me like that that I would be so close to just being like I'm
going to push this guy over. I feel like the producer is going to have to come and come and grab me because I lose my mind, Like how do you say stay separated and stay in the game without letting it become too personal and wanting to knock this person out for sure?
And look, it's really hard. At the end of the day, I love this game and I knew what I needed to do to get through, and it is just a game.
And as frustrated as you can be at times, like when you feel it boiling up inside you, you have to remind yourself that it is just a game and that I didn't want to let a toxic relationship ruin this experience for me, Like so I knew I needed to be the bigger person even when I was being antagonized consistently, and I just had to let it flow like water off the duck's back because I love this game, and if I left with the sour taste in my
mouth or like withdrew from everything, like, I wouldn't want that, and it can be hard to patch all that together. But I just need to let it go so I can still have fun and still be part of this community and this game which I love so much, because otherwise, yeah, I would have lost my call and completely pulled back from it, and it's not where I wanted to end up. So some things are just some things are bigger than the game, and at the end of the day, it
is just a game, very real game. But like, yeah, you just had got to find a way to cope with it.
Well, people kept seeing you out with George or you kept posting photos as well socially with George, and so I think there was a real confusion from everyone because everyone was like, oh, well, those two they don't like each other, and then you would post you two laughing and having a good time. You know, was that really surreal for people that you saw in the real world seeing you two hanging out.
Yeah, it really was and very confusing, but it also adds like that's the human element to it. Like at the end of the day, George loves this game just as much as I do, and despite all our differences, that is something that we will always share in common, and we will always be bonded by being on not one, but two seasons together. So like this, George will follow
this game in my experience will always be tied. So I need, you know, it's it's important for me to just to ensure that like I can, like I'm okay with it, Like with what happens in the game. What happens in the game happens in the game. I will only ever judge someone by how they treat people in the in the real world. And George is a nightmare to play with, like and he's so good of what he did, and you've got to full credit to him.
But like you know, I will only judge him by what we see in the in the outside world, and he's been been quite supportive and checked in on me from time to time. So yeah, I'm impressed by the real George on the outside.
What if we missed in this finale. I know, Simon finale is a devastation for me and for audiences. What were you mentally preparing and what did you foresee happening had you not been eliminated?
Yeah, the best final pitch since Christy Bennett in twenty sixteen. It would have been It would have been huge and it would have been special. I try not to think about it too much now because I know that I could have won, and I knew that I had the narrative to be able to win, and I actually think I could have beaten George, believe it or not, Like it's actually crazy that that those words are etten coming
out of my mouth. But I think with George's during management, I don't think he's you know, he's played the best social game. Then I think he's chosen TV moments over social relationships. And I mean, look that it's very entertaining and very good, but like when someone's telling you, you know you've made another like a dumb move or you're the worst player in Survivor history, like you can't do you really want to reward someone like that half a million dollars? So you know, I.
Had the end if he's left with.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm maybe a bit bold by saying this, but if George is left with Jerry and Matt, then I think George can win because with Jerry and Matt, did they you know? I think the trouble Council be like, well, did Jerry and Matt really do as much in this game as George? Where had it been a you and George finale, I think that and a showdown between the two of you, I think you would have won because you are right, you did play the social game better and you still gave us
the TV moment. You can still give TV moments in shows like this without completely destroying your game.
He gets it, and yeah, I agree, Yeah, there's there's there's a way to do it in a way to you know, to do it tackley and tastely. At times, I think that it would have been interesting and well and like, it will be interesting to see how it all kind of comes out in the end. And yeah, it's gonna be a real battle of head versus heart. But if someone can get up there and pitch about why they can stand on their own two feet outside of you know, outside of George then you know, they'll
they'll they'll put up a compelling a compelling argument. But like when I was out there, I wasn't privileged to the inner workings of it all. But like if they if someone can prove it, then yeah, we'll just have to wait and see if they can. If that's an to sway the jury.
When you came out of the show, not what you know now, but like that moment where your torch is snuffed, did you think was most likely to win?
Oh?
I didn't. I didn't know at the time. Like you just got to come into terms that it's not you. So I just hoped it was Nina. I hope that she would be like, you know, like the last freedom fighter to you know, to take down George and you know, just to be the last one to overcome being on the bottom for so long. And you know, it's just frustrating when there's a lot there was a lot of talk for so much about from you know, Jerry, mattin Liz about doing something and making these moves, but then
it just never acting on. It's just frustrating there. So you know, Nina, you shared a couple of things to her resume ready, like you're a Hailey vote under a belt like she tried, She'd done different things, and there's no doubt that George is by the best strategic game ever. But I hope that you know Ninick and works in magic and get her way through to the to the end from here.
And then we talked about at the start about being a returning player, and and I felt like I knew for a fact that your story wasn't finished. How do you feel about this now?
You know? Do you feel like your story is finished? I mean, of course you would go back.
I don't even need to ask you that question, But do you feel like your story has finished with Australian Survivor?
I think, for now like it has. I have closed a chapter which is which is wholesome. You know, it's nice to be able to get to that point because I feel like after Brains be Brawl and going home with two idols, like it wasn't done, but for now it's a really nice way to close it all off. Like you know, I came sixth I got a car, I got an edit, I left nothing out there and
I left. Ultimately, I wanted to leave a mark on this game and come away with a couple of friends, and I think I've done that so I can very much so sleep easily at night knowing that you know my day. My time should have ended on day sixteen, and here I was twenty something thirty some days later, like a pretty special Simon.
I want to thank the Survivor gods for your efforts this season. You were so fantastic and honestly, I don't think anyone could have come across any better. Thank you so much for chatting with me today and unpacking some of this. It's just been so amazing.
Oh, Benny, it's it's been great. Been looking forward to this one. So yeah, thank you for your support, and yeah, it's good to good to have you behind you know the magic that is Survivor.
A hell of a good chat with Simon. I thought his takes on the whole series were typically Simon, and I couldn't have asked for more. Anyway, Let's bring Nina into the podcast. I'm really excited to chat with her for the first time about blood versus Water.
And heroes versus villains. Hi, Nina, how are you hey?
I'm good, Thank you, how are you well?
Thanks for coming onto the show and unpacking your time on the series. How has Heroes Versus Villains.
Gone for you?
It's been amazing. I'm having I had such a great time, continuing to have a great time being able to see everyone outside of the show. So it was a great experience and it continues for me, which is awesome.
You know, I've been following you guys. What is the deal with all of the Australians survive contestants? You guys will look like one big giant family.
I don't know what it is. I guess everybody just gets along. But I also think it's like a part of the Australian culture.
You know.
In the States version, we're like going in. Everybody else is like can I get to know you a little bit? And I think that for me that's really good for my game because I love relationships in general. I'm a people person. I love to talk, but it also gives me the chance to get to know other people and let them get to.
Know me well.
Growing up in the Survivor world, I can you know, I feel that this show is in your DNA. Does knowing the game inside out actually help? Or is the show so unpredictable that no amount of inside knowledge can really help you.
I think it's I don't want to sound corny, but genuinely fifty to fifty because there's times up until last night, I made a rooky mistake not realizing thinking I am genuinely fighting for my life. I am done, I'm going home. What's the last thing that I can do? Not realizing what was actually happening. But that's the tricky part of
the game. That's what you don't know. But there's so many other parts that got me to that point that my knowledge of the game helped me with, whether it's a puzzle challenge that I'm just like, Oh, I love practicing puzzles. I've done this before with my mom and the family at home, to the social cues and things that my mom taught me about or that I learned from her, just watching her interactions with people that got me further in the game. And then the game is
so unpredictable. You don't know what people are actually thinking. All you can do is sit back, watch their actions, their moves. And my perspective, which is so important in the game, was I am completely done. There's nothing else I can do except fight, and that's what I did. I stand by it because every single person that night, including myself, did what they thought was best for their game just didn't line up with what I thought was best.
When I was watching you last night, I was thinking to myself, this is the season of Survivor that we kind of expected to get from you, you know, last year, and then you know you hurt yourself and you had to come out of the competition.
You know, what do you think looking back?
Do you think if you hadn't hurt yourself, do you think you would have gotten as far in last year's series.
I'm going to entertain you because I sometimes like it's hard for me to do like that hindsight thing because I don't want to think about like what I missed out on. But genuinely, yes, I had quite a few people as well tell me, dang, I wish you were still there because you could have had it in the bag for one reason or another. But I genuinely I
know I would have made merged at the least. Anything after that might have been dicey, because I felt like some people were just on this straight and narrow path, which we also see a little bit in this season, and I would have again tried my best to switch things up. I just think that at least in my last season I would have had a little bit more relationships and ends with people that would have allowed them
to feel a little more comfortable making those moves. Where unfortunately, being the final five, Jerry and Matt didn't really have super super strong relationships with them. I tried, but it just didn't work out. Maybe I was too little, too late. Where last time I at least had relationships with almost every single person from the OgH Water and a few of the new Blood tribe, and I had some decent relationships with them that I could at least have to end with other people.
Was it always locked that you would come back? I mean, that was the question I had for you. I mean they definitely said, you know, you've hurt yourself, would love to see you back on the show. But you know, at what point did you find out that you would be a part of heroes Versus Villains?
I didn't know one hundred percent until I think two months before I actually like flew out. Of course, I was always hopeful, which is why I continued to do my best at exercising rehability take myself as quickly as possible just in case. But in all honesty, I didn't hold my breath. I mean I was filling out job applications and redoing my resume, getting ready to leave because I went to retail just to kind of hold myself over, to give myself time to process and like rehabilitate and relax.
Then they call and I'm like, oh my god, is this actually happening? Like I thought you guys were just kind of entertaining me, making me feel better, But they were serious, and I'm glad that they were.
I think the question that everyone wants to know, you know, out of the Survivor universe at the moment, is what did your mom think of your time on the show.
Oh she's so proud, so happy. She's just astonished in a way, like she expected me to do well. But you know, once you see it, then you believe it. I got my little wind that she didn't get, so I got to do a little bit that she never got to. Also, of course making the jury, which was awesome, But she overall was like, you know what you did, And maybe not exactly the same way, but she was like, you did what I would have done, I think to myself, and she has before I'm going home, I'm gonna stir
some shit up and I'm gonna try. And that's what I did.
I want to know about the pressure, because you know, I'm putting myself into your shoes the whole way through this season watching you, and I'm thinking, where does the most amount of pressure come from? Is it your fans? Is it your mom? Is it the pressure that you put on yourself? What was the pressure and where was it coming from?
Always myself? Always, always, always, I don't know why, but I tend to be able, even in just a few moments, to distance myself from anything that I cannot control. I can't control what my mom says or thinks, what fans say or think. I can't control a lot of aspects of the game or other people in the game. What I can't control is myself. So I have a lot of internal thoughts. I mean, you see me at travel colousm I'm like, like just thinking, you know, so most
of the pressure comes from myself. I think, Please, don't f this up. Okay, put the emotion to the side. Let's be logical. What have you seen, what have you heard? What have you felt? From other people? And take that and run with it. So far, it had worked every single time until last night. But of course we're forty four days in. I'm seeing collar phones and things everywhere. I'm hungry, I'm tired, I'm frustrated. I'm so frustrated because
one should have went home, went to isolation. Two should have went home, but switched my vote, which which you know caused the time, didn't go home. So now I'm like, oh my god, I've been trying and trying and trying. This is not going anywhere. Nice Nina is gone. Me Nina's coming out, but maybe nice eness should have stuck around, right.
It's so hard to work out though, But you made a very good point, and that is that when you're in a situation that is unusual, being that you know this show is unusual, it's you know, a long time to be in there. You are hungry, you are tired, and you're not thinking straight. So you can't exactly expect because the audience are watching it, and the audience are watching it going oh, well, this is.
What I do.
But they're in the comfort of their home, and you know the pressure that you guys are on too. It means that your decision making ability must be compromised, considering.
My mom did the show, and I've heard the backstories, and I'm like, oh my god, they never showed that. That is such an important aspect. I always remind myself anytime somebody has questions, I'm more than happy to answer to explain what I can. But I also remind myself they're not there. When I meet other survivors or people from any other show, I'm like, can you tell me? Was there more to that? And ninety nine point nine ninety nine or nine percent of the time, there is
so love answering questions, love being open to discussions. But I also remind myself, you're on the couch. You're seeing what I never ever knew. I'm watching the show, seeing things, and it's been you know, a little bit of time. No one told me that I saw something Simon said, and I'm like, I'm coming to your home shortly. You didn't think you should tell me that you know what
I'm saying. So there's a lot of things that I have no idea about, never had an idea about, that the fans are seeing for the first time and thinking, oh that you know, look at the conversation, right, I'm like I was nowhere near that conversation. Guys, don't forget it. I'm paranoid. I'm over here running around with so and so trying to make sure things are happening on this side. I don't have ten heads. I'm not able to duplicate myself,
so it's a little bit frustrating. But most most people, once you tell them a little bit, they're like, oh my god, I totally did it. And that's what I really try to get people to understand, and it's very refreshing when they do.
I have to ask you, you know, what was the most shocking thing watching it back as a TV show that you didn't say and that you didn't know.
So just because it happened. We have so many episodes and I've been traveling, so just because it happened last night, genuinely did not think George was even considering doing anything with me. And then, oh my god, there was one that I was really shocked by. It had something to do with Simon and Haley had having a private chat that I had no clue about that was before the shango, and I'm sorry that I can't remember exactly what the words were, but I was like Oh my god, they
were conspiring. I knew they were closed, but I didn't realize they were that close. So again, loved Haley really, really genuinely wanted to work with her. But I'm glad that I didn't make the decision I made because I didn't realize her and Simon were way closer than I ever thought.
You know, they might be getting ahead of myself by asking this question, But has there been a lot of interest in you doing other versions from around the world, because, like, you was so great on this series and you have this background, you have this history, this family tie to this series. Has there been interest from other versions of Surviva for you to do them?
No, not from them fans of course, which I'm loving. I'm like, yes, tell them, tell them to call me please. Don't watch the last night's episode, but tell them to call me please, Like I'm trying. I would love to because Australia Survior has done so much for me in filling this hole in my heart hearing you know what your parent has done their entire life and always wanting to have that experience. I now had that experience. I had it across the water with some amazing people. Everybody
has accent. So I'm like, oh my god, I love this and they welcomed me with open arms. But at the same time, I'm an American and I haven't even done the American version. You know what I'm saying, like, I would love, love, love to do it, and by all means any other country, please, I'll be your first American. I'd love to do it.
How did it come about for you? I mean, did they bring your mom last year to do last year's series and then they said to her, can you bring a family member? I mean, like, how did this show come about? Had your mom reached out to the Astralian version and put a hand up.
My understanding is because I was at work. I remember this. She got a call from somebody saying, hey, somebody else is trying to reach you, but you know, she doesn't answer numbers that she doesn't know. Got the call, she was like, ooh, you guys are really physical, and as you know, my mom is not known for being very physical, and she was like, I don't know about that. And they're like, I mean you might be able to bring
somebody with you. I don't know. You know, they can't confirm or deny anything, and her Survivor brain is like blood versus water or some kind of teen like they're doing something with partners. She called myself while I was at work and said answer the phone and hung up, and I'm like, I see Australian. I'm thinking to answer the phone for Australia. I had no idea to like, Hey, this is so and so from Survivor Australian. I'm like, hello, Like what are you talking about? So that was amazing.
They loved me. She had my aunt as well talks in but they preferred me. Sorry Auntie, but yeah, that's how it came about. They just admired her, admired her legacy, wanted to bring her along, and she got to bring me along. And I'm so glad that she put me forward that I was her first option.
I love it. I've always wanted to know that.
So it's really exciting to be able to ask you specifically and get the real story. There has to have been a lot that we didn't say early in the show, because you know, the villains kept going to tribal council. You know, what is something that you felt like we missed from your story because a lot of the other people that have come on the podcast so far have actually mentioned you and said, you know, there are some relationships that Nana was able to form and storylines that
happened for her that you know, we're never shown. You know, what is something that you feel like we really missed out on saying it would have.
Been a lot to show. Don't get me wrong, but my way of building relationships and the ones that I've built and how they interconnected because I'm like, okay, day one, connect with Sean Haley Flick. We are attorneys, we're a minority. Try and chat to Sam. You know, see how that's going. And that was from the jump. Then I start connecting with some of the newbies. Here's Ben, Ben and Haley are okay. So there's two people right there. Here's Matt. Matt and I get along really well. We actually had
a secret alliance that of course never gets shown. He's in with the Metre. That's amazing. So here's two avenues. Then I get with David completely and utterly my number one. He is the core, like one of the core. Meet Trey. So not only do I have him as my number one, I have Matt as a backup to tell me something if they choose to not tell me so I'm aware. Then I have Haley over here on the complete other side getting to know these people, and I'm trying to
also get to know them a little bit. Then we have Flick. Flick is really close with Paige, and I never like created a really really close bond with her, but I have Flick to kind of bring us together. I had multiple conversations where you see page I actually get upset about the whole challenge thing. Flick brought us into that conversation. I'm so glad she did, because here's a vulnerable person, unfortunately, but vulnerability creates an opening. And
then there was one other thing, Jarnie. We started connecting just a little bit because unfortunately, you had a cast member who a lot of people weren't getting along with, but she was, which was great. And because of that, I had a lot of open discussions with her, like, hey, maybe you should start thinking about how that relationship might hinder you or might benefit you. So yeah, I had a lot of relationships built where I would I would be able to double check a lot of stories.
Is there a person that you feel that maybe you made an alliance with or maybe just a genuine friendship with that you know, you were disappointed to see was sent home too early, Like was this someone that you felt deserved more time on the show?
David one thousand percent because he I hate that you didn't get to see a little bit more of him when I tell you he thought about things so clearly. And maybe I'm being a little bit like biased because he was very open with me, But I also value that I don't I don't want to say it like that. When I see some serious potential in someone, I'm like full, like I'm all in. I want to know what you're thinking,
what you're talking about, and why. And he was actually very open about that, and so we were able to bond not only over the game but life and just get along and laugh and felt very nice to have somebody that I would consider a friend, you know, in the game like that and outside of the game. But yeah, I really really wish not only did you get to see a little bit more of his thought process, is because he's a part of the metri and that's all
you get. He is so smart and a lot of people really did enjoy his presence, and I feel like he went home way too soon.
Well, I was looking back at your gameplay and writting it all down and you know, creating my notes, and I really want to know, did you spend time rate thinking that message in a bottle from Higley to Sam?
Yeah? I did. In our honesty, I believe her right, But I'm sitting there and I'm trying to be analytical. I can't soundboard off of Haley anymore. I need to do this myself. And the fact is she flipped. She didn't really talk to us. She based on previous conversations,
was very adamant and animated about certain things. So when I'm sitting there next time she's like this, Yeah, you should do this, I'm like, that's weird, Like you're not actually, you know, like really coming out there like you normally do. Not only that she knows I was coming for her. So if she sees an opportunity to blindside me, and she's gonna take it, and what better way than to
fool me. She didn't know I had the idol. And what's funny is it literally was like sitting right here, And that's why when I'm talking to her, I'm like this and I'm like, we're back, but I'm thinking to myself. I want to believe her, but my heart is believing her, my mind isn't. Then I go to the boys and I'm like, dude, I don't know. I feel like she's telling the truth. And they're adding on top of Nna, but don't forget this, this that we were coming after her.
Why wouldn't she get rid of us? Why wouldn't she do this? She would be lying also, you know, of the three of us, Sam, like you would think she'd come after Sean, you know, like it was kind of one of those. And so my heart then just kind of sank and I was like, oh my god, I think she's trying to fool me. Last part of the thought process was me panicking at tribal like what do I actually do? And I got taken out by injury last time. I don't want to play an idol for
somebody else and send myself home. I feel like that would almost be more devastating. So I said, you know what self preservation, Sam said, Nina, seriously, play it for yourself. Sean Saidnina, play it for yourself. We are okay with that, which is really important for my relationship with them. Sean will go last and he can make, you know, kind of the final call. But I get why he did it too. He has a family back home that he's
fighting for, you know what I'm saying. So it was frustrating watching back, but hindsight is always twenty twenty.
It's one of my moments of the series that really shocked me. I was like, why are they playing these idols? But as you said earlier, you know, we at home don't really know everything that's happened. We haven't seen every interaction, every you know, facial gesture that someone's given you to make you believe a certain thing. You know, there's so many things happening on the beach, which means that us as an audience, we can't completely understand the threat that
you must have felt to play that idol. But at the same time, I was like, Nina, do not play the idol? Why are you doing this?
As I was on the plane on the.
Way here, like this, look you know it is it is what it is?
You know?
Interesting? I was reading on the fan forums last night.
A lot of people are saying now that whilst George has been really celebrated through the game, it seems like people are getting a lot of George fatigue. Do you think that the show has had too much George storyline?
I think that every story that has been told should have been told. I would not even for me, but for anyone. I would have loved a few more perspectives, just so you can kind of get the full picture of why certain things happen the way they happen. But based on the way the show is going, production made the right choice. They're doing what needs to be done for the show. He has a really good perspective, or
really analytical one, a very strategic one. But yeah, I do kind of wish you got a few more people, just for the sake of every single person who was out there deserved to be out there, and I think their voices should have been heard just a little bit more. But when I mean even I'm watching George's confessionals and I'm like, holy crap, you know, like I'm entertained as well. But there's sometimes even me, I'm messaging people like why
was that? Why did you say that? And I feel like there's just a few little gaps that could have been filled.
Was there ever going to be a chance that you could have played at your case and won the game with your resume? How do you made it to the final three?
I genuinely, even based on the chats that I've had, I know I would have gotten at least one vote. Depending on who I'm against, of course I would have at least gotten one too, maybe even three votes. And if you ever watched like my Jury Villa entrance, like you'll see they were like, Mina, we were rooting for you. And I think my pitch would have been those relationships. Because one thing that you don't see is every time I talk to someone and I told them like a
full story, a truth, and I mean the truth. At the end of the chat, I would say, if you choose not to work with me, you made that decision, not me, and you can cross check everything I'm saying, so you know who's the liars and who's on your side. And like Flick made a very good point when I entered the jury village, she was like, girl, you told me everything. Like I appreciate that. You don't know how much that means to me. So I would have definitely
played on that. Now hypothetically, say I'm next to George. He has these huge moves, he did all these things and he had really good relationships, but he still burned bridges. I can at least have the relationship story, the fighting from the bottom and never giving up, always making sure you guys were on my side, and letting you know I was on yours. So I would have definitely gone for more of the emotion and the fact of don't forget that I never pushed you to the side, even George,
you know, like that would be my pitch. Whether it would work or not, I don't know, but I definitely think I would have at least gotten one vote, which would be nice.
Then well, not what you know now, but you know what you knew what you thought coming out of the competition?
Who did you think was going to win? With the fall that we've gone, Like.
If they went to the final, the finale.
Yeah, we walking out at this point of the competition, who are you thinking is going to win?
Looking at it from a strategic standpoint, George, hands down. I mean there, no matter how you feel about him, you cannot just credit what he has done and continues to do. And then I look at Liz and I feel she's a very independent person who has her own thoughts, who is able to step from behind George, not as if she ever was. She was always next to him. But come from that and say this is what I want to do and we're going to do it. She was never, ever, ever scared for that. Matt and Jerry
they're there for a reason. They're still playing the game and they're doing a good job. If they weren't, they would.
Have been gone.
But from what I saw, from what I felt, I don't feel like they have a story that they can tell that really pulls them out of George's shadow. But I'm also excited because I'm watching the show seeing things that I don't know. I want to hear. Whoever makes it their pitch, Matt and Jerry might have some really really good stories that I didn't even realize they had.
Are they going to win everyone's I mean out of Liz, Matt and Jerry. If one of them takes George out and he doesn't make the final whoever takes George out surely is going to get the Jerry's vote, right.
Not necessarily, I don't know how, So I think it's all about how they frame it. If you're like I had to wait to the last minute because of X y Z, then of course, Like me, I'm gonna be like, well, why do you wait so long? You know what I'm saying, you better answer properly.
But I think everybody, as long as you own what you've done, explain it in some way, shape or form that we can understand. Because at this point in time, I think we're all returneys on the bench, right, So you're gonna have.
To make sure Yeah, yeah, so you're gonna really especially if it's like the newbies, you're really gonna have to tell us from a strategic standpoint why you did what you did and then hopefully we'll understand.
But if not, Sorry I got confused.
I was like, yeah, so, yeah, the returneys are all in the jury, is what you're saying. Yeah, right, Because we have Liz, Jerry and Matt. Their all newbies, you know, and then you have George.
So at this point in time, me entering into the jury the law, I'm like, oh, ever makes it to the end, they got to think about who they're pitching to because at this point all of us are returnees, Like you got to start thinking, even George himself, he knows how to pitch.
Or you have to.
Remember who you're talking to Nina.
I am obsessed with you. I think you are so fantastic and even talking to you today, I love how well you can explain yourself. You are so well at being able to articulate yourself.
You've been fantastic to.
Watch on the show, and I really am rooting to watch you in another series.
America. First, come on, thank you.
I appreciate that.
Thanks for the chats that, I really appreciate it.
Yeah, no problem, Thank you for having me