Oh yeah, it's that time again, always time to make that change. I am Nina Turner here with the wonderful, incredible doctor Cornell West. You are listening to Truth Time, Doc. We're gonna explore some things today. So we know that the Trump administration is pushing to try to really erase the history of black people in this country and by extension, other marginalized folks. But this may be proven difficult for
him to do. For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction, and there are a lot of folks on the community side and also on the academic side or doing things differently, maybe not directly through their institutions, but in communities. And that is really how black folks actually
learned from one another and lifted our respective history. Black artists, black educators, black leaders, black activists, black people are finding ways to learn more about our history and in some ways what they meant for evil may actually turn out for good. And then why the gala celebration for black dandyism matters? For this moment, our style, our swag always matters. We are the most emulated people on the face of the planet. Before we get to those topics and many more,
the doctor is in the house, doctor Wes. What is on your heart, your soul and your mind.
My dear sister, I'm full of joy. Anytime I'm in conversation with you, you're gonna talk about black style and dandyism, and yes, we're gonna talk about how it is I erase Black history. There have been efforts for four hundred years to do that, and every effort has failed. And one of the reasons why it has failed is because we are living history. You can't wipe out living history. History is not in a book. History is not in
a library or museum. History is when you see jamar All walking with style, and Letitia's smiling and you see a sparkle in her face, singing a song, writing a poem, or herself loving her children. That's what history is. And so let us first call in the question this claim about omnipotencey somehow people have the power to erase history. No, not at all. But at the same time, it means that we need a spiritual awakening and a more renaissance so that we live our history in such a way
that people will know it can never be erased. And what is spiritual reckoning awakening? What is moral renaissance. It is an explosion of self love, self respect, self regard. It is an explosion of self determination and self defense. It is an explosion of grace and ignity being enacted and in body in the black world every day, every moment. And so anytime I hear this talk about, well, they banned another book, God ain't banned the book. But they
ain't banned our energy. They haven't banned our fire. They haven't banned our determination. They haven't banned our vision, they haven't banned our love of our now. If we our sells no longer a living history grounded in the best of our visions, the best of our efforts and self determination, then we can end up consenting to the waning of
a black history. You can have a lot of Black folk around but have no connection to the best of their history, and they end up being spiritual zombies, just fitting in and assimilated and amalgamated into a white mainstream, such that Martin Luther King Jr. And Fentny Neuhama and Nina
Simone and others are far God can completely overlooked. That's the kind of focus we need to have in terms of a spiritual awakening, moral renaissance with political courage to tell the truth not of white supremacy, but about predator capitalist processes.
With oh, I'm with it. Spiritual awakening, moral renaissance coupled with political courage, and you're right.
You know.
Fred Hampton said something to the effect you could try to kill the revolutionary, but you can never kill the revolution. And that's pretty much what you're saying. Unless we give up and give in and give out, that's when it's over. But just having some leader that wants to be an authoritarian to try to dictate what's taught formally, that ain't gonna change it.
That's exactly right, that's exactly right. And let us be honest. I mean, they talk about banning these books, and they wrong, and we got to fight it. But then we got to raise the question, you know, when's the last time we took our children to the library and read them a book. When's the last time we've immersed ourselves in books. We ourselves have to be enactments of the history. We're not spectators of something in the past. That's not what
history is. History is lived in the present, and the pastness of the present makes the present what it is, and there is no future unless the best of our history is inside of us in the present to authorize a better future. That's yeah, time, all past, present and future.
We always live, especially us as a people based on the past, the president in the future. You cannot uncop for any of those. They're all connected like that. That quilt is there, all them pieces coming together and the enactment of history that in some ways when I said, what they meant for evil is gonna turn off for good.
Black people are more in tuned now, and maybe we will start to do collectively and communally the things that we should have always done, which is to never lose our connection to the past, the present, and the future, to begin to be the teachers and the you know, the griots in our own community and not waiting for somebody to do it formally in a classroom. That part right there. Listen when we come forward, doctor West, and
I are going to continue. You're listening to truth time you because you can't be true to anybody else unless you're true to you first. That spiritual awakening, that moral renaissance wrapped in political courage. Do you think the fact that the Trump administration is going so hard centering an
anti black sament. I mean, there's no doubt about that as they try to roll the teaching of black history, the true teaching of America's history, that other marginalized communities are getting swept up in that there's a loss of a sense of the good, the bad, and the ugly. But on the other side of that, the positive nature in this pain point that there's in other words, there's promise in this problem. And it is a problem to try to rewrite history.
Oh, and you're making a powerful point. It may be that the vicious attack on us and our history will lead us to wake up more quickly and therefore to intensify our own And it's interesting you think about woke and all these attacks on woke. You know, you want to say the folk, so are you in defense of sleepwalking?
How when you say that?
Nil? Are you this in defense of the Austrich keeping his or her head in the sand? Is that? Is? That? Is that what people mean when they attack woke. Now we can understand that they may be critical of certain practices associated with WOKE because if if you know, you don't want to be you know, mistreating folk and so forth. No, that's wrong, there's no doubt about that. But if it's a matter of the question for truth and people have no interest in the truth, therefore their anti woke and
their anti truth. Oh wait a minute. When Martin King and the others talk about it's time to wake up, they were saying, it's time to acknowledge your living in a racist society that's been lynching and degrading and enslaving black people for two hundred and some years. And if you don't wake up, you're gonna lose your society. That's what Martin was saying. So, folks know, I can't stand being woke. I want to go back to sleep. So you want to go back to the denial. Oh so
what are we talking about. Let's be very clear in this regard, and I think that we have to continually say that over and over and over again.
And that you're making many critical points. The main one are you in defense of sleepwalking? So because you're right, just very simply, what is the opposite not being woke is being sleep absolutely On the other hand, you know, just reminding our audience how the terminology of being woke was co opted by neo liberals, bastardized by them, because that is not originally for the Black vernacular, for the
Black experience. Woke mint, keep your head on a swivel, woke miant, don't get caught asleep as you're laying out, because your very life might be in danger. But let me go in there and read it, you know, just kind of how it's laid out here. Woke is an adjective derived from African American English you since the nineteen thirties or earlier, to to refer to awareness or racial
prejudice and discrimination, often in the construction stay woke. The term acquired political connotations by the nineteen seventies and gain further popularities in the two thousands. So for Black people, woke has always meant you got to have a consciousness about your surroundings, to stay physically safe first and foremost, in a more broad sense, to be woke, to be aware of where you are physically, mentally, and spiritually in
these United States of America. And it is unfortunate that Neil liberals then used it to expand in other territories that it was never meant from the black vernacular standpoint, and thereby given an opening for these conservatives and these anti woke people by any any measure to co opt it and to use it in a negative way. Again, Black folks being sacrificed on the altar once again at the hands of neoliberals and used by these conservative maga people.
M No, no, you broke it down. You broke it down. That the woke emerged in the black context. That had to do with shattering callousness, shattering indifference, and chattering cowardliness. It had to do with unleashing us for truth.
That's right, that's right. And I gotta tell you, I am I'm disturbed, you know, I'm really upset that it's being used in this way and because people who did not respect us on either side of this have found a way to make this a negative term. It was meant for black people to stay alive literally literally, mentally, physically, and spiritually and all of a sudd and being woke, even if you understand it in a more expansive way, it is all of a sudden, all of a sudden,
something bad. There's something disturbing about that.
And of course even the right wing, though they find themselves in a double buying because they say, okay that we're going to fight this wokeness, we're anti woke, which means the way they are saying, we need to be woke about anti wokeness. So it's just another form of wokeness anyway. And the question then becomes, well if if, if you're woke or anti woke, what are you woke about? And what are your anti woke about?
That's it.
That becomes a question that sounds like a logical paradox, but it's just a matter of concrete reality. Either you acknowledge people suffering, you acknowledge their humanity, and you think something ought to be done about it, or you're in denial about it and you don't think anything should be done. Whatever should be done, should be done fairly, should be done justly across the board, but something must.
Be done, Something must be done, and something so beautiful as being woke. You know, even if I put the attachment to black culture and black consciousness in the parking lot for just a minute, they ain't gonna stay there long. To your point, do you want to sleep walk? Another point to be made is what though inherently is wrong with being woke?
Though seriously, now I must admit, you know, when the younger generation talked about me being woke about fifteen years ago, and I said, well, as an older brother, I'm not gonna suffer from insomnia, which means I ain't gonna take a nap. I'm gonna get me some sleep. I got to stay fortified. That's always been my slogan. Stay forty five, I stay. Everybody need taking that and go sleep. Sometimes folks stay woke for twenty five years. They not highly
reliable comrades. They may sleep on you right in the middle of battle because you ain't got no they've been woke for too long. Get some sleep, mother, mother, shut your mouth.
So so we need some highly fortified comrade in some senses. You know, even in the art world, which you always bring up music so beautifully. You know sister Rika Baidu, you know her track Master Teacher. You know feature the words by Georgia and the Modre is wildly credited with reintroducing the whole notion of stay woke to the modern lexicon.
We're making some major points here. Dot woke has always or wokeness has always been a part of the consciousness of black people because we had to so whatever our ancestors was calling it in the eighteenth century, the seventeenth century, the sixteenth century. It was always some version of the notion of wokeness. But in terms of modern day they're saying, you know, the Legal Defense Fund put out that. Rikabaydu's her track from two thousand and eight Master Teacher is
widely credited with reintroducing stay woke to the modern lexicon. However, Watson believed it was by DU's use of the phrase on Twitter while advocating for the freedom of Russian feminist protesters that ultimately helped propel woke in a twenty first century way around the globe.
No, that's real, and Eric Abadu, she's got the spirited Nina Simone in her and she recognizes that to stay woke is to always be forty five, be for truth telling, be ready for courageous witness, be ready for fighting and resisting. And when you are fighting, you got to not just be woke. You need powers of discernment that part ABSOLUTELYSS or not just matter woke. You need to get your eyes together and you got to feel deeply. You got to get your heart together, and you got to fight sincerely.
You got to get your soul together so that you know woke is just that first step toward Efesian six and Ephesian six. Ain't just stay woke, it's put on the whole arm. I see, Grandmama got it more right than almost everybody I know. She go back to her Bible. I go back to my Bible to say, put on the whole arm. And I think Erica do would agreed, and of course I think Nina Simone would agreed too.
Yeah, so that you are able to withstand the wives of the of the devil, of the enemy, of the of the of the spirits of opposite that want to take people down, I mean, that's it, Doc. And so now, to some extent, not to some extent, we know that woke now is being used in a very negative accoonnotation. They use it to stand in for diversity, equity inclusion, is used to stand in for Black Lives Matter, is
used to stand in for critical race theory. You know, you name it, and all of those things add up to one thing, anti black.
Well in a way that that kind of focus on us means that we still constitute the threat that we're not inconsequential. You see, if you're inconsequential, people ain't nobody praying attention to you. Ain't nobody even can, and whether you there are not. But if they targeting you at the highest levels of government, trying to erase your history, trying to break your spirit, trying to undermine your fire, all that means is that they still fear you, even
if it's a form of hatred. It's still a matter of we're trying to control you, trying to subjugate you. They understand that black people at our best, with love in our heart and commitment to freedom and our soul, yes, we do constitute a threat to lies. We constitute a threat to crimes, We constitute a threat to oppression. So in a funny kind of way, it's a compliment.
Yeah, that part die. We are relevant. We are more relevant than what we understand. And it is true that we are, especially from a popular culture standpoint, the most
emulated people on the planet. Nobody even close. Now, I said from a popular culture standpoint, and I can also add in from a social political liberation context, we are the most emulated people on the face of the planet because as marginalized people fight for their dignity and justice, they almost always look to the fight of black people for liberation at various times in our sojourn on this soil.
That's true, that's true. I mean the challenge has always been that the genius in our music and our styles, the genius in our art is so difficult to translate into institutional capacity for freedom, and it's so difficult to translate into the same level of courageous political leadership. If we had political leaders who were as free as Erika Badu, we'd have been free long time ago.
Yes, sir, four.
Political leaders who are half as free as Nina Samon on a Curtis Mayfield. We would have been more free a long time ago. Now, that's not to say that we don't have any political leaders who are free. We do have a few. But we got whole lot of musicians, We got a whole lot of folk with style and smile who are free in terms of their art and in terms of their style. But we don't have it in political leadership or an institutional form and capacity. That's the challenge that we have.
It's a very big challenge. Shot. And to add to that, what we must be concerned about is the manipulation of the term woke and to use it in such a
detrimental way impacts policy. I mean, you have people like Governor DeSantis, as you probably remember, and all these other Republicans that have lots of power, criminalizing in many ways woke and they're proud to be anti woke and that how then does that translate into public policy that impacts not only the African American community but the entire nation writ large. We don't want no wark policies. Well, it's
wanting people to have health care or woke policy. Not wanting people to put insulin on credit cards or ration their insulin. Is that a wok policy? Wanting people to have a living wage? Oh, I guess that's walk policy too. So what started off to be meant for evil for just solely black people, whenever the system comes after black people, it ain't for too long before they're coming after everybody.
Else, or at least poor and working poor.
In working class absolutely always and sometimes poor and working class people from other ethnic or racial groups, even though race is a social construct. But that in the parking lot, they don't always realize that black people continue to be the canary in the coal mine. When we come forward, we will continue this conversation. You're listening to Truth Time with Doctor Cornell West and Nina Turner. I guess we're
staying for Yeah, well we'll stay right here. But yeah, the fact that some people don't recognize that attacks on black people in this way, they think it's just about us until it comes knocking at their door.
Exactly right, Yeah, right, And that's part of the end callousness that we were talking about to see.
Yeah, very much, very much, very callous. Absolutely, just the lack of humanity. You know, it's quite disturbing, and you and I will be wrestling with this for a long time. We've been wrestling with it before our Magnificent show and we continue to wrestle with it because the level of hatred that it takes to have a whole system bend to ensure that one group of people does not rise.
That is quite quite chilling, Doc, very very chilling. Listen, you're listening the Truth Time with Doctor Cornell West and yours truly. When we come forward, we'll try this again. We're gonna continue this conversation as we are. Love and truth is the place that doctor West and I hang out a lot. We are loving it Doc about this time.
You know what we do? We go to our live chat on the tube, and we are so thankful to our viewers, our audience, for the folks who are on here on a regular basis building strong community, not just with us, Doc, but one to another. So I'm about to get this party started. Mister Morris Phillip's good afternoon, Senator Turner and doctor West. Thank you for your courage, and we thank him for his courage as well. Doc.
That's y.
Yeah, we got h Dorvilius. Good afternoon, Doctor West. Morris Phillips again, Doctor West, you must be talking about Burkina Fasco Africa self determination. Did I pronounce his name properly? Okay, So there are two questions in there while we're on him, Doc, let me just go on and jump to that Blessed Peacemaker is in that same lane. Senator Turner, please ask doctor West and give us your insights too about Trey
or Burkina Fasco. Please. The US is wanting to take out yet another African leader working for his people, and we got quite a few questions that in that vein that and that's Blessed Peacemaker, by the way.
Maker really has a has a fine focus on what is going on not just in Africa, but that particular part of Africa, because you know, the going back to the Berlin Compass of eighteen eighty three and to scramble for Africa and in colonial and imperial attempt to subsume not just African lands, but African leaders under their aeges, under their authority, and it goes on to this day. People think that the struggle against imperialism was over because
we now have African leaders over African nations. Know that's not true. You can have African leaders who themselves are subordinate to imperial powers and the people are still yearning for self determination, especially poor and working people are yearning
for self determination. And the use of Africaan as a strategy of the American Empire to expand and extend US imperial power in Africa over its resources, land, and peoples is something that you and I have talked about on this show and it's something that is it's that we
need to zero in on. And in the particular instance that they have, we have another African leader who was so easily subordinating himself to US imperial interests in order to suppress the authentic and genuine yearnings of the self determination of an African people.
Yeah, and even some that we touched on a little bit and yesterday's show about in Rwanda wanting to get some of the contracts to lock up other people's people, you know, immigrants, and so you're gonna ship them not only just to El Salvador, but you're gonna ship these people all the way to Rwanda on the continent of Africa. I mean, what kind of sickness geopolitical sickness.
Oh no, but it takes you back to the nineteenth century, takes you back to the nineteenth century and in some ways to the eighteenth century. Remember, Australia itself was founded by convicts who were pushed out of Britain and were
used as settlers to subordinate indigenous peoples in Australia. The very state of Georgia in the United States has the same history, so that you can see history repeating it not in close imitation, because it's different historical circumstances now than it was in the eighteenth and nineteenth century, but it is repeating itself in terms of the domination.
Yeah, the pattern remains the same as ra Yeah, go ahead and teach teacher. So Morris Phillips and Blessed Peacemaker hope that gets closer. We got h Doorvilius again, Hello, how are you, Senator Nina Turner? I am mighty fine, h Dervilius, and I hope you are mighty fine as well. We got b bill of pat On bullies. Turns out White Washington doesn't actually make you clean.
Ooh that's pop.
Ain't that deep? Go ahead and be bail and b Bell says, good afternoon, fam. B Bell is really doing that thing a piece. And grace my kb LA peeps all of that, all the love. And then the inner conversation between everybody with one another, just not directed towards us, Doctor West. We got Darryl Evans Hi, Doctor West and Senator Nina Turner, hope you both are well and we
are hoping the same thing for you. And then Blessed Peacemaker has a recommendation for a book if anyone wants to get woke about the US Empire, check out the New Confessions of an Economic Hitman and the Jarkata Method. Doctor West, have you read either of those?
No, I haven't read those books. We just get educated all the time.
There we are. This is reciprocal. It's not just so again, those two recommendations are the New Confessions of an Economic Hitman and the jar Kata Method. Yeah, we're gonna check those out. Blessed Peacemaker, thank you so much for that. And then Daniel Samir Kirn doctor West got me busting up. Me too, Daniel all the time, Me too, Oh pro proster John. I miss Nina's glasses. I'm gonna have to bring them back, y'all. Sometimes people don't even recognize me
sometimes not without my glasses. A lot of people because I've worn them for so long. That's their preference. That's how they know it's really really me. So I gotta bring my.
Glasses back, put them back on.
Definitely, so much, so much, so much so, doctor oh Ronnie Thomas. Anti black is a real situation we face daily here in America, a topic that is overdue. And I thank you all for your service in telling the truth.
No, weigh in it together.
We are, and I mean we wish it were not true, honestly we do. And they acting like we want this to be true. We don't, but it is true and we got to keep raising it up. Tears, Alan Duncan peace and blessings, leaders and peace and blessings back to you, all of that good stuff. So, Doc, you know, we are in a deep moment, you know, for our lifetime.
And of course there are generations that have spanned several decades where they're able to take a glimpse at times when in their childhood and young adulthood to what is happening now. And then we got generations who never experienced anything like this before. Again, Gen X is the first generation that did not have to live under legalized It's still happening in fact the facto, but not in dejure legalized segregation, and because of the Civil Rights you know,
Civil Rights Act and also the Voting Rights Act. But that's not that long ago. That those are people who are under the age of sixty. That puts a finer point on what you and I talk about on the regular basis in terms of understanding the impact of anti blackness, the impact of trying to stop black people from having full liberation, and how it has serious consequences for everybody and one of the reasons why we need to continue to lift up that history. You're listening The Truth Time
with doctor Cordnell West and Nina Turner. When we come forward, Doctor West, thoughts on all of that God and thank God for each and every one of you. If you missed any part of today's show or shows in the past, please download the KBLA app. You gotta do that for us and all the amazing shows. You know, our dear brother Jesse Jackson, it comes up right after us, So
make sure that you stay in the house. Just a few more comments that really feed into you know, the more that not only just the Trump administration, but even some governors before President Trump got his second chance at this White House, we're trying to minimize the history of black people. I think the more that folks like the Santis and others push back against our history, the more we want to make sure that more people learn about it. In other words, when you think everything is okay, you
just kind of la laid back. But when you're under attack, it provokes a certain type of response. And I think that response is for not just only the African American community, but people who understand what is happening here to say, oh no, not on our watch. We're gonna teach it regardless it might be in my friends' basement, big mama's basement, the basement of a church or mosque. But this history will be.
Taught absolutely in the end. It has to do with truth and justice. You see that. We wanna teach the truth. Let's tell the truth about the country and its own weak will to truth when it comes to black people being treated justly.
Yeah. Always fear of and.
The denial of justice go hand in hand.
That's a word Doctor preaches all day long. We got makial doctor Wes Cinner Turner. Have you already discussed allegations against Smokey Robinson. No, we have not. That is not this kind of show. We not doing that. But I wanted to make sure that I read that because I want our viewers to know we will take the hard questions. I have not been keeping up with those allegations either, and it doesn't fit with the mode of this show.
But thank you for raising that. P Black three. The Berlin conference was in eighteen eighty four to eighteen eighty five, not in eighteen eighty three.
Cool. Appreciate that, correct and pray for me.
Yeah all, I love that. Please, anytime if Doctor West and I mistakenly get something wrong, let us know we ain't too proud we receive it, so thank you for that. And then we have oh, we have miss Gibbs. I think it's just Shonda, just Chandra Gibbs ask absolutely you two beautiful souls, Doctor West. We share a mutual friend, my pastor, doctor Stanley tobert.
Ooh, the one and onlys stan let Old Bard, PhD, Union Flotical Seminary, the last student of the Great James Cohne, the founder of Black Liberation Theology and his church right there on no man d in l A. And he's also a distinguished professor at Pepperdine University with my beloved and I heat graduated leader. Hey, PhD is another player, but yeah, Stanley's special brother. He really really you know, brother Stanley.
I do, I do. We're not close, but I definitely know of his greatness.
Absolutely, yeah, this generation he really.
Oh, thank you Sister Gibbs for bringing that out. We appreciate that so much. And so Doc. What kind of encouragement though, can we? I mean, we are always always concentrating on encouraging people in this moment really to keep on keeping on despite what the powers that be ultimately try to do to deter us and the teaching of American history and all of its forms is important for our growth, you know, as a not just as a people,
as a black people, but also as a country. You gotta know from whence you came, as James Baldwin so eloquently laid out, to be able to know exactly where we're gonna go. Doc, hold that thought, you're listening the truth. Time with doctor Cornet wasn't needed. When we come forward, the doctor will speak. I want to combine two things we got Blessed Peacemaker in here. One of the things Blessed Peacemakers said, African Americans and Africans are facing the
same evils. It's really important we all understand each other and love one another. Solidarity and kinship teachings get us understanding one to another. So as you respond to that. But he also is saying that some things we need to put some clarity on. He wants us to revisit trayor that Rwanda's Kagamin or Kagami, I'm not sure and pronouncing his name right, but Rwanda's one of Randa's leaders.
Was horrible that there's a mix up between this leader with Burkina Fasco's Treyor who is a real Pan Africanist like Patrice Lamumba. So he's saying that there's a kind of mix up there between those leaders.
Well, I'll tell you, Lamooma sets some of the highest standards in terms of his truth telling and in terms of his seeking justice for his people. And anybody who comes close to the standards of Lamomba deserves our support and deserves our affirmation.
Okay. And one more point, Doc Blessed Peacemaker saying that the Burkina Fasco's tray Or is the real Pan Africanness in the tradition of Lamomba.
Yeah, no, I think that's That's what I think our brother is saying. And all I'm saying is is that when you talk about Lamomba, who sets such high standards, if the brother who he's talking about comes anywhere near Lamomba, that brother warns our support. Yeah.
Amen to that. And the point he made Doc about you know, the kinship and understanding our collective really from a disporat desperadic the Black diaspora lens that we have to get understanding one for another, have solidarity one from another, and that teach ins is a way to help us cultivate that.
Oh, he's absolutely right, absolutely right. You. Solidarity has got to cut across national boundaries, got to cut across country lines, no doubt about that.
Why is that so hard? Though? It seems hard people for some people to grasp that.
I think it's hard for all of us because all of us in our local context have so much to deal with, so much. They have to deal with the local context and then make the connection of local contexts in other countries and be honest in the solidarity and still be rooted in your local struggle and your own community and context. It's difficult, but it's imperative.
Difficult, but imperative. Well, Doc, listen, we didn't talk that thing today. You talked about spiritual awakening, a moral, a moral, a political courage, spiritual awakening and a moral.
What was that Renaissance?
Renaissance all renaissance? We need that today, And Doc, my goodness, we didn't get the dandyism. But the cliff notes version is baby. Our style is all. It's all that. That's all you need to know. We're go look at it. They have some fine suits and things or doctor West, I cannot believe it. It's our time again. We want our folks to live on purpose, live out their purpose, understand their purpose, but above all, understand that titles are good for purpose is better. Until next time,