WATCH ME DIE-Bill Kimberlin

with them before they are executed. From the moment they are placed on suicide watch until the moment they are pronounced dead right in front of them, Kimberlin will walk you through the twisted and complex execution process in the state of Ohio. Watch Me Die presents an unbiased look at the realities of death Row in Ohio and America as a whole. This book is much more than an

argument about the death penalty. Instead, Kimberlin exposes the harsh truth of what it's like to be on death row, counting the days until your own execution, as told to him by those who have lived it with no physical or mental restraints. Kimberland's conversations earn the trust of many high level and violent offenders. He shares with the reader. These unfiltered and honest thoughts from people staring in the

face of death. Their writings, their artwork, and their own words will put the reader in the room with these dangerous killers. Nothing is off limits, and there is nothing to shield Kimberland from the same hands that have taken countless lives, leaving Kimberland himself asking will this be my last trip to death Row? In this newly revised edition of Watch Me Die, Bill Kimberland takes the reader on a more intimate journey into death Row than ever before.

This edition includes where are They Now? Section, updating the reader on which inmates have faced their execution, which inmates are still counting their days, and who else has asked Kimberland to watch them die. The book they're featuring this evening is Watch Me Die. Last Words from Death Row with my special guests, journalist and author Bill Kimberland. Welcome to the program, and thank you again once again for this interview. Bill Kimberland, welcome back.

contained in this book Watch Me Die. Last words from Death Row.

It kind of brings people up to speed as to where Ohio sits with the death penalty, the controversy is going on those that are facing up and coming executions and my interactions with them as well.

And then the book goes on to talk about different inmates and different chapters on the basic background of what brought them to death row, the murders that they had committed. Every one of them in the book have confessed to me their murders as well as some other ones. So none of these individuals that were executed or that will be executed, have ever maintained that they were innocent by

any means. And then there's other chapters that go into the actual death row protocols, the processes, the methods, the fact that here in the United States, since we still have the death penalty, a lot of states are either revising their protocol or their methods. In Ohio's is one of them. Other states have abolished them altogether. Some states

like California have putten the moratorium on them. So there's other champions that discuss that, and then it winds up talking about those that are facing their own demise on Ohio's execution table and or firing squad, because now that's what we're looking to implement in the state of Ohio, either lethal gas or the firing squad if in fact, we can no longer obtain the lethal drugs used to put these individuals to death.

capital punishment. Well, I'd been fortunate enough to travel to a lot of different countries, so I knew a lot about the drug laws. My family and I I've grown up around guns hunted all my life in you know, Canada, the US, all over uh. So I felt comfortable teaching on that. I had counseled various females that have went

through the abortion process, so I felt comfortable there. But every time the discussion came up about capital punishment, I felt that I just wasn't knowledgeable enough to speak as an educator on that topic. So when I started researching it, I found out that the overwhelming majority of people out there had never been to death row, let alone witnessed

an execution. So one of my really good friends is a common police call judge, and he gave me the name of the Attorney General's office number in the name of the Attorney General of Ohio at the time, so I gave them a call to see if I could, I don't know, be placed on a lottery to go see an execution or whatever. I did. That's how naive I was. And after they hung up on me and I called back, they, you know, they felt bad for me because they had never really had that question posed

to them before. So they were able to explain to me that in the Ohio Revised Code, it outlines exactly who can and cannot witness an execution, so only three people are on each side, the dependent side and then on the prosecution state side. Victims are allowed to witness an execution. But they said, we'll send you the Ohio Advice Code. If you find any loopholes, we'll send you also the list of inmates scheduled Tony and good luck.

So they sent me that information. I researched it. I penned a few letters to these guys, and next thing you know, I'm on death row, which I only ever intended to go one or two times, just so I could teach about it and say that I'd been there experienced at firsthand. It wasn't book knowledge only, and I would feel comfortable doing it. And lo and behold, here we are today, and I'm still doing it.

the vending machines. There's microwaves there. We can heat up sandwiches or pieces or whatever, candy, whatever they want, and we can discuss freely everything and anything. Very rarely are there guards around. They'll, you know, they'll come by. They'll take pictures of us together if we so desire. As it gets closer to the execution than one of the inmates, I was with him for eight hours, just right alone there on Death Row, up and down freely, walking and

talking for you know, eight hours straight. We got to order meals delivered to the prison and everything else. So

it's it's not like you see on TV. They do like to present to the media and to the public watching it that it's a very safe and secure environment, but when you're there one on one, it's nothing could be further from the truth, because like I've had inmates, and I think it's outlined in the last chapter the book, one Innate in particular, he flat out told me that, you know, the guards will let anybody come into death Row to visit. We decide if you get to go

home or not, because it's their house. So that's, uh, you know that rings true. It's a there's a there's a lot of respect that I give these guys and they in turn expect me, and uh so then I've been able to do it for years and years now because I've never disrespected him and I've never sold any of them out.

I even explain it? He was very He was not your normal person by any means that you can imagine at all. He only looked forward to his execution. He's the only person I've ever come across it couldn't wait to be executed. And he just knew he could not live in society and he hated prison. So what he did was told the guards at one time that the gangs were after him, so he needed to be put in protective custody. They said, fine, Newton, will take you

to PC protective custody. He said, I'm walking down PC. They're trying to figure out who's going to be my selling. He said, I was looking for somebody a week and young that would be easy to kill. He said, so I spotted somebody, he said. I told the guard that dude and I we were bunkies before U sell me with him and the guards I find whatever. And this

guy was short term. He was set to be released within the year, and he said that night he told him he's like you and I were going to have sex tonight, and the guy said, no, last I don't think so it s that's not what I do. And Newton told me that's exactly what he needed to hear. So when the guy went to sleep, he took the band out of his sweatpants, the rope, and he strangled him, which he thought strangled him to death, but he said it didn't happen that easy. And then he even asked me,

have you ever strangled him by to death? You realize how hard it is. I'm like, no, I got to be honest with you. I've never strangled anyone to death, and he said, well, let me tell you it's hard. He said next saying, I know this guy's gasping, so I just started beating and when I started beating him, the blood went everywhere. When the blood started going everywhere, it just turned him on sexually. So he killed him and stripped down, masturbated all over him, and then ate

his dinner. I ate a pair and waited the guards to show up the next morning, and they did. And of course you're sitting there thinking, because you have to keep a straight face, you don't want these guys thinking that you're judging them. And I'm thinking, okay, is he really telling me the truth or e bellishing? Because again

I'm new with this. And the next thing I know, after his execution, he signed his case file over to me, and I have the videos from the prison of the pictures of the scene and everything, and sure enough he was not exaggerating at all.

in the case major comes walking in. Of course, Chris Newton was chewing tobacco at the time, and he looks right at Newton and he says, Newton, you realize that I can write you up for that, right And he of course he interrupted us talking, which Chris did not appreciate, so he just stopped dead in his tracks and he

looked right at him. He's like, yeah, and you do realize that I'm scheduled to die in a couple of days and I will kill you right now, So help me God if you don't get the hell out of here, because I have nothing to lose and everything the game, because I've hated you since day one. And the guy just looked at me and he says he's all yours and turned and left. I'm like, well, geez, thanks.

and witness their execution. So tell us more about some of the inmates that you did meet and some of the things that you noticed that were characteristic of all of these people regardless.

made on death rope. Then all of a sudden they consider me a stand up guy, so then they reach out to me, And then in turn, what I've realized over the years is what it takes is a lot of time and patience with these individuals. So I might interview these guys for weeks and months before I ever even get into what they actually did or how many murders they committed or anything like that, because I've found that the least amount of questions you ask, the more

they'll tell you. And so the next thing, you know, they'll start confessing other murders to me. A couple of them have, anyways working with another serial killer right now who's working on some maps to locations in the state of Ohio, and I think he's convicted of three or five already right now. So they'll start divulging this information to me without me even really asking, because they know that I'm not going out there trying to sell their

information or anything. So yeah, it's it's been different in that aspect as well, because I would have never expected that in my entire life that these killers, whom I kind of describe as dangerously normal because they don't have serial killer tattooed on their forehead. They don't have you know, they don't. They don't appear other than somebody like Chris Newton. They don't normally appear to be bad people, but they really really are. I mean, somebody like Samuel Little, who

is suspected of killing ninety three. He started out in Ohio and he reached out to me, did not look like a bad person at all, but based on what he's done.

up with cartoons. And I did is this letter from a guy that I had never heard of before introducing himself to me, saying that he didn't want to interfere with the person I had been talking to until after his execution, but however he had heard about me, and if I really wanted to talk to somebody who was a real natural born killer, meaning he thinks he was born this way, if I can handle it, come and see him. Not too many people have been able to handle him though, just so you know, And that's how

he put it in the letter. So of course that intrigued me, and I went and I visited with William Sap and we have been in constant communication since, and he is probably still to this day, the most evil, vile killer that I've ever come face to face with, and I've come in contact with countless numbers.

I'm like, I don't think anything. I had never sat down and discussed anything with him. Plus, I don't like to normally talk to the guards a whole lot because if the inmates see you talking to the guards, and that looks very suspicious, which could be very unhealthy for me. So we sat down, we were eating and drinking and talking about the weather and politics everything. So then I

just threw it out there. I said, hey, I hear you're good for like seventy and again he just stopped it very flat affect, and he said, what who told you that? I said, you know, word is if you're good for like seventy murders, that's true. And he's like, no, not at all. He's like, I killed fifty people if I would have killed seventy, And where I would own up to that? He said, because anybody that's ever taken

a human life, they never forget that person. And I can prove to you that I killed fifty people no more. He's like, when you kill a human being, he'll never forget their face. You'll never forget doing it. I enjoy doing it. I remember everything about him. I've kept things from them, he said. And I never really killed everybody that I raped. I said, well, what would determine whether

you killed the person or not? He said, if they started praying to God, or if they told me something like you can't kill me because I have kids and I have a husband, then you're dead automatically. He said, don't ever tell me no, and don't ever pray to God. He's like, there's plenty of people I raped and I let go. I even asked him one time, if I were to bring his children he has two kids, in to see him because he has not seen them since he's been on death room, what would you say to him?

And he stopped, looked me dead in the eyes. He said, I wouldn't say anything. He said, I'd probably kill them. He said why, He said, they should have never had my last name. He said, I regretted that since they won, I should have killed them to begin with. So if they ever came in here, he said, I'd probably kill him. And that's his own kids.

let's bring some closure to some families. And he had supplied me with some maps for one in Ohio to in Florida and again I'm working with different agencies and

things like that. It was determined that they felt that these were legitimate maps, that he was not lying, but based on the fact that they were prostitutes and there there just wasn't the funds budgeted for looking for individuals like this, that they just born interested in searching for them, which I found totally repulsive and I actually couldn't believe it. I've heard that from other people before that agencies would say that, and I just never gave any credibility to it.

But that is the very fact that sometimes they just don't care.

And I compared the hated wins to the drawings which were years later, everything was completely consistent with the first ones, and then he refused to give me any more until these bodies were dug up and located because he just he's like, if you're not going to worry about the first three, why would you worry about the other you know, forty plus. So that was kind of disheartening. But I'm hoping that, you know, with my communication with him still to this day, at some point in time, that he'll

disclose those locations to me. So at some point some families could have some closure in their lives.

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to ZipRecruiter dot com slash murder. ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire. In this new revised edition, you talk of other inmates, fascinating inmates that are as you say, no serial killer, no killer on death row. No two are the same, and they're individuals. They may share some characteristics, but no two are the same. But you have a section where are They Now? Inmates that you had been

dealing with that were scheduled for for execution. Some of had those people had asked you to witness their death. So let's talk about a little bit about some of those people that you write about in this revised edition, and before we talk about the nitty gritty of what happened, what you are able to offer these people at the last moments of their life. Tell us about some of the people where are they now?

And then of course there's a Cleveland Jackson who was implicated in drug deal gone bad. I think there was five people shot him. He and his brother shot. One of them happened to be a small baby as well. David Allen is another one whom killed an elderly couple. I believe Charles Lorraine is another one that killed I think his minister that was ministering to him in a prison stent once before when he had gotten out and

he had gotten him some work. So these individuals have all asked me in writing to be there for them to witness their execution when that the dates are set. Some of them are now set. But you know, Ohio right now is on an a moratorium of executions. The governor has ceased executions until a new method can be voted on, at least while he's governor. So so yeah, I continue to see these individuals and correspond and communicate with them letters, emails, in person, everything, because they do

have access to a lot of different media outlets. So they will email me sometimes a couple of times a week. They'll write, they'll place phone calls. They have video visits as well, especially because of COVID and things like that. So yeah, they sometimes they could be pretty needy. They are constantly reaching out to me. They'll send me art.

I think I have over one thousand, five hundred pieces of art laying around now, all from death row some which is really good, other is horrible, whether it's made with human blood or semen or whatever, and they'll send me. So, yeah, it's kind of crazy.

So they were nice enough not to turn me away at the gate, but instead walking me over to the prison housing where they had closed there and let me pick out prison clothes I guess, and then they sent me on their way back to condemned Roe there. But once you're in California's death row, when you visit the person even though you're loud to eat and drink out of the vending machine, they lock you in a cell

or a cage with that person. So it's maybe eight by eight cage sell that you're pad locked in, just the two of you with a little table and chairs, and that's how you visit there. So if anything would have happened, and there's like twenty nine or thirty of them, you know, rows of them that other visitors are in different cages at the same time. So with one or two guards walking around, something were to happen by the time they got there and tried to unlock the gate

and everything, who knows what would transpire. So that one is definitely a lot different than the state of Ohio's, whereas the state of Florida. Around that right now we go in there, there might be twenty five twenty eight inmates all at once in the same room, all death row. Everybody's free to walk around, sit at tables. They have a canteen area so you can go up and you can get everything from ice cream, sandwiches to you know, burgers, cheeseburgers,

pizza in it. You can warm up. They have everything, their popcorn and you can play board games, cards, You can do whatever you want. There so huge difference between the different states, like that when you're talking being locked in a cage with no movement to up walking around with twenty five inmates, all that are condemned to die.

and any victims family members that wanted to attend. You know, two more of them, so there's three on that side. You never come into contact with them, but when I'm in the waiting area, I see them going over first. You can hear them because it's a very small The death chamber is very small, just a small partition that separates those three from the three of us, whoever it is,

so you can hear them talking and everything. And to answer you quick on why and me, I think it just boils down to the fact that they they're hoping that they won't be forgotten, that I'll either write about them or I'll publish their art or anything along those lines to keep their name out there. So it's self

serving on their part as well. Some of them will ask me to attend their executions so they can also learn about the process because it's not a very transparent process and they're not told a whole lot leading up to it. So they'll ask me, since I've witnessed them, you know, what's it going to be like? What do they do? Things of that nature. So you know, there's different reasons, but for the most part, they just they don't want to be forgotten.

bodily fluid are very good. But he'll hide those in between and the other ones around the back of those, and he sends those to me at least once a month. I usually get six or seven different paintings every month. So yeah, he's a he's a character. But he's very much uh a sexual obedient and and really uh fantasizes and focuses on anything sexual when it comes to his artwork or his letters, his communication style everything. So he's

he's he's a very unique individual. When when when it comes down to that too as well, you.

but she offered him sex for payment. He agreed to it. Next thing you know, he just goes down this rab hole of all of his sexual adventures with men, with women, with groups and again a very very deviant sexual individual, which is what led him to commit his murderers as well.

for twenty eight years. More often than not, the victim's family members have passed on before this ever happens and they're forced to relive it. A lot of my guys that I've dealt with want to keep appealing their cases in order to drag the family through that each and every time they revictimize them. So they get enjoyment from that. And in the meantime, they can also order you know, art materials, they can do clicklists or whatever for you know,

whatever grocery stores offer. You know, they can get full quarterly packages a year. They can get you know, tennis shoes and socks and pants and things like that. So they're you know, they have tablets, they have TVs that they can order, earbuds, you name it. They have a

lot of access to it. That's the reason why they email me every day and write me and send me this art and Everything's because they have access to all these materials that people on the outside typically don't think of when they when they hear about a person being put on death row. Oh, they're thinking, Okay, they're locked down twenty three hours a day, and you know they might get out an hour or a day or something.

These guys are out and about more often than you realize, and they have a lot of amenities.

this is my opinion and strictly an opinion. I think they would. They want to have that notch on their belt saying that they got a conviction for a death penalty case. And in reality, they don't take into consideration the victims' family members and walk them through the process of Oh, by the way, plan on spending the next couple of decades reliving reliving this as the person fights for appeals and goes in front of the clemency board

and everything else where. If you were to have just locked that person away for life without parole, allow those family members to grieve eventually forget about them and not live in fear knowing that they'll never get out, and next thing you know, they have lived a better quality of life. But instead, the way the politics runs because our prosecutors are all elected officials, so they want to look tough on crime, and it's it's unfortunate and it's but it's the truth.

There are there are inmates that that further exacerbate the situation by doing things at those appeals or doing something in public or saying something through attorney. So it's the least there's there's so much that could happen waiting for that final resolution, which would be the death penalty to be carry doubt correct.

over and over while they're on death row. And it's it's it's really sad because I've I've known people personally and I've been to sentences where an inmate from my hometown was sentenced to die, and you know, I could see the grief in the and the frustration on both sides because I happen to know both the victims family and the defender family, which put me in an awkward situation. And I've refused to speak to him on death row

just because of that. But I look now and I see that, you know, he's still thriving on death row and the majority of that family has already passed away.

this serial killer. He didn't always go out to kill people, but he did like to rob places, and a lot of times what he would do is if it was a female working, he would strip them down after he would rob them, and he would unscrew a light bulb and he would insert it into them and then kick it so it would explode inside of him, which was just crazy and insane to me. Yes, and he didn't think anything of it. So then we're having a last meal,

the one that delivered to the prison. You know, I think we ordered like eighty dollars worth of Italian food. It was delivered walking up and down like christ Kimberlyn. They're really going to kill me this time in three days,

aren't they. I'm like, yeah, you know, I believe this is going to happen, Fred, And he's like, well, I was thinking, you know, if if I killed another person like right now, they can't kill me, right, They have to try me, so they have to give me a stay and then go through a trial that will buy me a lot of years, right. And I'm looking around.

There's no guards, there's no nobody, just me and him on death row alone, and I'm like, man, what is this kind of getting that, so I quick thought of something, you know where and how. I have no idea, but I said, listen, they're gonna they're still gonna put you to death. They're gonna try and obstend you. You're gonna be found guilty. It's gonna bring more embarrassment to your family.

So you know, skip that out of your mind. He's like, wow, thanks, Kimberlin, that I knew I had you here for a reason. You know, I'm sitting there thinking, you know what that reason is, But I'm just glad I came up with that. So, yeah, he was different.

show you their true psychopathic nature. He's us, He's ready for the Some of the witnesses, which are victims, family members, people that were or survivors. What does he do? What does he display to them?

you know, Jewish, anybody else. So fast forward too and he and he has shot I think five people at the Cleveland State University. Fast forward twenty eight years later, come time for his execution. At this time, he's already undergone a complete transformation. He now goes by Francis Anne. He has a African American minister in prison, he wants

to have gender reassignment surgery. He comes out as being totally gay, all of this, and I'm thinking, how does a person goes through this transformation, you know, where you hate every single thing he stood for now, so I visit him, I go to him at his in the death cell, which is located right next to the death chamber, and he appeared to be very remorse at that time.

He was very soft spoken, he was very polite, thanked me for coming, you know, apologize because it was a four hour drive and I had such a long drive back home. I mean, just a complete gentleman at that time. And I asked him if he was remorseful, and he said he was, and things like that. The guard taps him on the shoulder, tells me it's time to go. So I had to go around the other side and take my spot in the execution chamber and they bring

him out. You know, they strapped him to the table, they do the ivs and everything like that, and then of course you're allowed the last statement to make. They asked him if he had a final statement, and he had this all written out. He said sure, So the warden held the microphone up to him and the next thing you know, he's reciting all of this stuff in German, which again shows you that he had no remorse whatsoever, because at the time he thought he wanted to be

Adolf Hiller. So then the victim's family and some of the victims that survived the shooting. It was just it was just horrible because they were wanting to go through the glass and put him to death themselves. You know, it just sparked so much rage. Twenty eight years later, Yeah, incredible.

criminal thinking that they do. And at the same time it's really desensitized me in the fact that I have dealt with so many convicted murderers that have killed so many innocent people. The numbers countless, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of innocent lives from just the people that I've dealt with over the years, that when a new inmate writes me from state or Federal death Row The first thing I think of is, Okay, how many people

did this guy kill or does this girl kill? And if it's like two or three, then I think to myself, why do I want to waste my time? And I should never think that way, because a human life is so valuable no matter what, and here I am desensitized to the number of victims. So that's a horrible thing that I have to live with that I have to

constantly remind myself and work on as well. That's why it kind of bothers me when I see people wanting to become pen pals with you know, death row inmates, or want to you know, get to know them more, and I don't think they realize what it does to you and to be able to expose your family to this, you know, my whole house is nothing but death sometimes because of the male that sits around that I don't open right away because I have to step back from it,

you know, or the artwork and things like that. So it's it's a daunting task, but one that I'm not ready to give up on yet because I do think that there's a lot more to learn out there, especially when it comes to hopefully solving some cold cases, locating some bodies and bring in some closure to families out there that you know definitely deserve it.

have killed you know, countless people. I've sat down with them, I've had dinner with them and talked to them face to face on what they've done, wives they've done it, and I'm hoping to incorporate all of that, as well as their writings and art and things of that nature into the books so people can see not through the media's eyes, but firsthand, what these individuals are really like, what they hide behind, what they try to come across as and hopefully opening people's eyes up to what real

serial killers and mass murders are really like.