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You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that have written about them Gaesy Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host journalist and author Dan.
Zufanski, Good Evening. In March twenty fifteen, Denise Hoskins and her boyfriend Aaron Quinn awoke from a sound sleep into a nightmare. Our men bound and drug them, then abducted Denise war not to call the police or Denise would be killed. Aarin, agonized about what to do, finally put his trust in law enforcement and dialed nine to one one. But instead of searching for Denise, the police accused Aaron of a murder. His story, they told them, was just unbelievable.
When Denise was released alive, the police turned their fire on her, dubbing her the real life gone girl who had faked their own kidnapping. In Victim f Aaron and Denise recount the horrific ordeal that almost cost them everything. Like too many victims of sexual violence. They were dismissed, disbelieved, and dragged through the mud with no one to rely on accept each other. They took on the victim, blaming harassment, misogyny, and abusive power running rife in the criminal justice system.
Their story is, in the end, a love story, but one that sheds necessary light on sexual assault and the abuse by law enforcement that all too frequently compounds crime victims suffering. Book they were featuring this evening is Victim f from crime victims to suspects to Survivors with my special guests, authors Denise Huskins and Aaron Quinn. Welcome to the program and thank you so much for this interview. Denise Huskins and Aaron.
Quinn, Hi, thank you for having us.
Thank you so much. This is extraordinary and heart wrenching story. Let's start off with I know that this book is credited to yourself as authors, but also Nicole Wisen's the Egan and people of the program listeners might know her from my interview with her discussing her book Chasing Cosby and also her podcast. Can you tell us Nicole wisenes Egan's role in this book? Please?
Yeah, I mean she is a great retour us to have and helping us, help guiding us in the writing process. We wrote the book from both my perspective and Aaron's perspective, as well as interleaving some third person perspectives of our family and what was going on the media and law enforcement.
So she was just a really great advocate to have in helping us really share the truth of what happened through our voices, because a lot of our story had been hijacked by the media and with the lives that the police put out.
You start off this book with talking about a little just a little bit about your background before this incredible event in twenty fourteen, our pardon me, this incredible event. Let's talk about Aaron. When you first met Denise, what year and tell us a little bit about your your move from move to northern California.
I was working neurological rehab as a physical therapist in the city of Lehou where I met Denise in the summer of twenty fourteen. During that time, or prior to the Antonise, I had broken up with my ex fiance due to her infidelity. So when we met, I was in a tough situations really from that past relationship, but we immediately connected just for our love for therapy, and we have similar families and just became a very easy conversation.
So we quickly fell in love, and up to that point of the home invasion, we had time to reach across the roads of our relationship as I needed to move forward for our past my X and so we ended up having a very emotional talk that night. We sided that we were going we we're gone commit each other, and we went to bed around midnight. We're content on the starting over, and then then all this chaos happened.
Around three am that morning. You write what happened while you were asleep? What happened to rouse you from your sleep? Both of you?
Yeah? So I I was in a deep sleep and was woken too a strange man's voice repeating phrases over and over. Wake up. This is a robbery. We are not here to hurt you. At first, I just I thought it was a nightmare. But when my eyes popped open, I stopped flashing white light against the wall and multiple red scanning, so we knew that they were armed and there was a few people in there. I was instructed to tie up Aaron and its ties were left at the edge of the bed. I tied him up. I
was then tied up in the closet. We were given blocked out swim goggles to blindfold us, and headphones that played these pre recorded messages of instruction. We were eventually forced to take a sedative and as a night went on, things just got worse and worse, and we realized it's not a robbery. And I was told that I would be taken for forty eight hours where Aaron would have to complete some tasks for my return.
What was part of the these intruders instructions were not instructions, but some of the things that they said in terms of monitoring you.
The kin efforts had set up constraints to force my compliance. Though One of them was playing a mirroring app on my phone which would allow them to see and I text my visits or outgoing calls. They also had set up my house up a home prison where they have put a camera that would give them by speed what I was doing, and I needed to stay within the confines of that camera's view. The threats were if I
went to the police, they would kill Denise. If I didn't comply, they would hurt den eath or just as important, they would hurt my family as they knew where my parents had lived.
They also said that they talked about your ex girlfriend Jennifer. What was it that they asked regarding Jennifer and niece.
Yes, there was a moment at the beginning of the home invasions. I were in my master closet, but they eventually separated the two of us, and at one moment, the person that we called a voice came back to the closet and asked me if if Denise and my ex Jennifer look alike, and they gave out a long, guttural sigh and I said yes, they both have long
blonde hair. He replied that this was intended for my ex and they got the wrong intel and they needed to side what they're going to do next, which we had hoped maybe they would just leave because they hadn't seen their faces, they had covertly got in, and because
it wasn't intended for Denise, maybe they'll less go. Unfortunately, they came back and told me that they were going to take Denise for forty eight hours because they leads would be good practice for their group, which was a black market operation that could get people personal and financial debts, for people to hire for personal and financial debts. So they were going to take deneth practice their protocols, and I would need to pay money than the seventeen thousand dollars to get hurt back.
And how did they make these arrangements? What were their planned arrangements to be able to get this money?
Yeah, so the kin Evers had been stocking me for at least half a year. Part of reason once they said they confused Denise and my ex was that months ago they had found a piece of mail addressed to my ex fiancee who and that tells us that they had been my house long before, because then they all
had stopped at least half a year before this. They actually knew my final ancel records, they knew where I bank, they knew my social Security number, and so at this point I had about twenty thousand in my bank account at the time, and so they wanted two payments of eighty five hundred to maintain or to stay under the mandated that will reporting limit. In turn, I think it's a fairly smart design because they wanted it to be
a self contained, forty eight hour event. You know, obviously if they asked for any amount of money, I would be given them to get Denise back. But if they asked for a couple of million dollars, one I don't have it, and two that would require a lot more paperwork. So internity, they wanted something quick, access to the money and then get away with it.
Did they talk about their operation whatsoever?
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead, Yeah, I.
Was just going to say. And when I was in captivity, that's when the man who was with me during that forty eight hours, he would describe what that organization was. And the same thing Aaron said about it being a black market startup company that someone could hire to spell
personal or financial debts. They said, they've done this before, and you know, they are really sophisticated in technology and the psychological effects of victims, and so you know, they even after the release, will know with the victim appears to be wanting to speak to the police, and have taken measures to prevent that from happening, like threatening a family member. And I mean there's a lot of things along the way that just indicated how well thought out
and planned this was. It is quite obvious that they knew what they were doing, and that they would follow through with any of.
Those stretchs with this with Denise going to be kidnapped and separated from you, and you even heard the car startup, and you say even the trunk being closed. How did they How did this group tell you that they were going to plan for you to comply? What were those assurances for them that you would comply with their orders? Well, they took Denise for this forty eight hours.
So they had installed a mirroring app on my phone that would allow them to see my text messages and phone calls them. Then they also had installed a camera that would allow them to see me within my home. I was instructed to keep the blind shot if anyone tried to come to my house and they redirect them. And they were also going to monitor me when I went to the bank. So they had taken Denise in my car, but they had told me that they would
transfer her to a different car in the morning. They would give me instruction on where to find my car. We found out later that they actually they had a high powered drone and they had put red tape on top of my car that would allow them to follow me with a drone. As I went to the bank.
Now, given the warnings that they gave you not to contact police and that you were being monitored, do you believe that they were watching you constantly? What did you decide to do and why?
As one of the perpetrators brought me down to my living area where I was supposed to stay for forty eight hours, as we're crossing the kitchen tile, electronic dunge sound coming from the corner, and I knew right away if that sound kept going for forty eight hours that
I would lose my mind. And I asked them if it would continue to make that noise the entire time, and then he made a mistake of saying that they weren't allowed to get into my router, or they weren't they were unable to get into my router and turn they were loading the camera through Wi Fi and by the morning that pounds just stop once the camera's fully loaded. However, I had passed out with the dude seative after they
had taken denise. Eventually, they will stay awake by eleven thirty that morning, and the camera continued to make that noise whenever I moved. Finally, the kidnappers as they community came through text messers and emails said that I would drop the money off Tuesday night and they would turn Denise Wednesday morning. And I started thinking that if I came with the money, they would take me as well and kill us both and the camera continue to make
that noise. So maybe it wasn't operating fully and I needed to risk gain help because I can't trust these guys anymore. And that's when I I thought nine one one wasn't an option because I could still probably see what if I was making phone calls. So I called my brother, who's an FBI special agent, and I made a decision add to lie some how. My brother's supposed to come over and maybe avoid any serious hanson Denise. My brother told me to call nine one one because
they needed to. We needed the full force of law enforcement behind behind us to help find Denise, and unfortunately the police made everything worse.
Yes, you you write about that. Immediately after you tell your story to police, you know, you recognize that they are believing and accusing you of killing Denise, and they're talking in that way, I aren't they.
Please for accusatory. From basically the start, I always knew that they would look at me as a suspect.
They should.
I'm the last person to see Denise. I didn't realize that I was going to be the only suspect. And they stripped me down, put me in prison clothes, took pictures of me naked, kept me in a terrogation room with no clock, no access to the bathroom without them watching, separate from my family. And so for the next eighteen hours, a I aggressively interrogated me, saying that the story I
was saying was too bizarre to be believable. And they know I killed Denise, and I can either say it's an accident, or if I keep denying it, they'll paint me as a cold, calculated monster.
And meanwhile, you are absolutely concerned about Denise and also feeling guilty that you've made this decision to call police, contrary to what the abductors had cautioned you not to do.
I knew once I called the police at the clock was ticking. I mean, the clock was already taken. Once you took then took her in my car. Sous in this impossible situation of trying to convince the police to investigate and try to save her while they're aggressively going after me, So I can't alienate them because I need their help. But also I don't want to be in that room being psychologically tortured as well, and the difficult
describe unless you've been in there. But they are trained professionals trying to get a confession because they were convinced that I had killed her. There was no other option and turn we found out later that they they had evidence and phone calls that will let him to Deneath that day, but they ignored.
All of it. Now, Denise, while Aaron is worried, and Aaron is in now being questioned like he's a suspect, take us to what happens to you you're on this car ride. Tell us how they keep you unaware of where you are and not able to identify your what you call the voice the person that has abducted you. Tell us about your ordeal and what happens when you get to the location.
Yeah, so, I when I was placed in the trunk of the car, I was still blindfolded and bound. Also the saidatives we were forced to take for starting to kick in. They had me in the trunk of a car for hours to where my body became numb and I was in and out of consciousness. So I you know, by the time we got to the location where we were at, I knew, you know, it had been hours, but but couldn't be sure how many. Anytime in that next two days, uh, that the voice would come in.
I had to be blindfolded, so I never saw him, you know, but he, uh the first day, had said because this wasn't meant for me, they didn't have any information on me to hold against me, and so it was decided that one of them him would have to have sex with me and it would have to be recorded, so that way, in the event of my release, if they thought I was going to speak to the police,
they would release it on the internet. And again because that it needed to look to my consensual and that first assault, I still have these blacked out swim goggles on and thought this is not going to look consensual. And of course the next day he said it, you know,
the video footage wasn't good enough or believable enough. For the next time, he taped my eyes shut and said I had to perform in a way that made it seem like we were a couple, and I had to get a kiss, and he had to do I had to do and say things God, and so I did because I one didn't want it to happen again. And too, they had complete power over me, so I knew it was going to happen one way or another, and I was just trying to minimize the violence and the trauma
of it all. But you know, in the end, he did release me. By the end of that forty eight hours, he told me that Aaron had gone to the police and the media was reporting it. But it didn't scare them, to scare them or worry them. They thought it would be good pr for the group that they're able to, you know, fulfill this this quote unquote mission without harming
the victim. And yeah, I mean, and I mean the whole time in today's captivity, I kept telling him, I believe that you're gonna kill me, and I was making peace of the end of my life. And so I was. I was in shock that he actually did follow through with releasing me.
You were finally released, and you didn't know even though he kept assuring you that they were not to hurt you, they he would not hurt you. He had those assurances that you would not be heard you were finally released. We won't go into the circumstances when you were released and how the police get to you right away, but suffice to say that when you speak to police now that they had accused Aaron of this, of your kidnap and murder, now that police realize that you are free,
you recount your story to them. What is their response to your story once you've been released.
Yeah, Well, it was clear later on because the second day of captivity, I was forced to record a proof of life. And by the way, when I was still in captivity, the way that the police spoke to my family and the text questions that they had, they even mentioned the gone girl thing, it was clear just because I was alive that they believed that this was a hoax. So before even me being released, it was clear that
was a decision. I was released in my hometown in Huntington Beach, California, and I spoke to the local police within an hour or so. I was at a neighbor of my dad and I told them about the home invasion and the kidnapping, and the whole time I'm speaking to them, I'm worried about what might be released publicly, as especially as media was gathering outside, because before I was let go, the voice had said, you know, you're going to have to speak to the police, and went
to the police. You can tell them about what happened, except you can't say that any one of us is in the military or anything about the sexual assaults. And so I had that kind of way over me as I was speaking to Huntington Beach Police at the end of it. The first contact that I had with a Vallet Hoe Police detective Matt Mustard, he told a family
member that he basically he didn't believe me. He was going to be offering me immunity and he was going to offer it to me and Aaron, whoever took it first, would get it.
And so.
That was the indication that I needed a criminal defense attorney to help protect me.
What about the FBI's involvement in this? I talked about Valletjo PD and Matt Mustard, But how do the how and why did the FBI get involved and who do you both get to speak to in that regard?
During my interrogation, I was told that because of the adult connecting for ransom, that the FBI would be involved, and this was maybe twelve hours after I had gone to the Blehoe police.
They asked at.
One point for me to take up polygraph to eliminate me as a suspect, which I agreed to mainly I think because I was sleep deprived and traumatize. A special agent, Peter French, administered a polygraph, which he said I had failed miserably and again went on the fact I killed the niece. Later on, a couple other FBI agents get involved and one of them ends up question Denise but doesn't question me. I'll let her take up from here.
Yeah. So once I obtained a criminal defense attorney, we decided that I was going to go in for questioning because that was the only way to potentially capture these terrorists and I didn't want this to happen to anyone else. And I was told by my defense attorney, you know, the FBI is going to be involved, and I thought, okay, great, you know, maybe this is just a bad decision making from local police department. The FBI has a lot of resources,
Aaron's brothers an FBI agent, it would be great. But they treated me the same way and threatened me with prosecution, and that lead FBI agent who questioned me. At the end of the questioning told my attorney was ninety nine percent sure I was lying, and that my attorney should watch the movie Gone Girl. It would help explain a lot. About six or so weeks later, as Aaron and I are talking and going, you know, why were we questioned
by different people? And I couldn't remember the guy's name, And when we discovered what his name was, Aaron remembered that his ex who was the intended targe of this kidnapping, had had a prior relationship with the lead at the iagent and it was never disclosed to eid In one of us.
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Now you've mentioned this Jennifer Aaron's Aaron, your ex Jennifer had dated an FBI agent, and then you just mentioned denisus mentioned that she was interviewed by n FBI agent and didn't put two and two together till later tell us about Dave Sesma and more about this seeming conflict of interest, and then you talk about your lawyer, Denise
making a formal complaint to the FBI about this. So tell us about what happens with this complaint and this investigation now that there's someone else to look at seriously.
I mean, we finding this out, We're like, well, this is I mean, this is outrageous, you know, I mean, at the very least, this is this conflict of interest could potentially bias his investigation. And it was clear for months after the kidnapping that their sites were only on
Aaron and me. And so we tell this to the federal prosecutor to let him know, and then yeah, I just sent attorney rights the Department of Justice, and we're trying to get people to realize that we need new investigators on this case if if they ever have a chance in catching these criminals. And it was essentially all ignored and dismissed or saying, you know, it's not our problem. And in the meantime, the kidnappers were free to hurt
more people. And in fact, the one who held me captain and rape me was then caught just a few months after my kidnapping by a different police department for terrorizing another family. And it was just really devastating to find out that the only way that the truth came out was because they were free to attack other people.
You write about your s s art, your sexual assault exam, and your treatment by staff and police regarding your allegation that you were sexually assaulted. Tell us a little bit about this ordeal of yours.
Yeah.
Well, once I've spoke to my criminal defense attorney and told them how I was threatened not to mention the sexual assaults, he had said, you know, if you speak to police, you have to let them know you can't let these these people have power over you. And the first thing we need to do is get you to the hospital. So when he was calling the police to try to get an exam scheduled right away. Their response was,
you know, how do we know she was raped? And you know, we'll wait to set up the exam until she comes in and talks to us, and that I needed to keep my clothes on and not shower, not wash my hands or brush my teeth, and I had to essentially wait another twenty four hours. I had to go in and and prove to them that the exam was worth setting up. And the whole time, you know, I'm terrified that the decision to talk to the police is going to not just hurt me, but my family,
because my family was threatened and too. I had told them that based on the defenseless position I was in, I didn't fight. I didn't they weren't violent, quote unquote violent assaults. And I the whole time I'm in the exam, you know, my legs open and being examined. Internally, I'm wondering, you know, is my body going to betray me? Should I have fought and made this more obvious that it's a rape? And sure enough later and the FBI Affidavid
for the rest of Matthew Moeller. It says in the affid David that there was no signs of non consensual sex, which again discounts the fact that I was raped. I do want to say though, that the nurses who did perform the start exam were really kind and respectful and they I didn't ever feel judgment or biased from them. I mean, they were really helpful. So it wasn't necessarily the staff, but it was law enforcement that that really revictimized me.
Talking about revictimization, Aaron, I'll ask you first right away, when you were released from questioning, what was the media response? Tell us a little bit about the police press conferences that they that they had they held. Tell us about the media response and what the police said in those at those media conferences.
Yeah, Sin Denise was released Wednesday morning and spoke to the local police at Hunton Beach them was offered community to say the whole thing was made up. During that time period, I was also offered by the police community to say the whole thing was made up as well.
And then later that night, so by nine point thirty that night, you know, just less than twelve hours after Denise was released and without gaining speaking to her directly, the Voho Police with Lieutenant Kane Park when and held a press conference and he declared the whole thing a wild goose shape and that we had waste of valuable resources from the community and still feared into the community,
and that we owed the public apology. And unfortunately the media just ran with that statement and didn't question law enforcements portrayal and repeated there and not repeated but amplified their false claims, and in turn, Denise was labeled the real life gone girl, that the case went international news and our reputations were destroyed in an instant. And if it wasn't for the fact that Matthew Moore attacked another family and the Dublin Police did their job, our reputations
would never been restored. And again when the real tragedy is another family got attacked. Though police misconduct makes the public unsafe. Now it hurts the victims, but also hurts the community as a whole.
What we haven't spoken about and I guess we won't have full time to explore, But it's the police pressure on you and Denise when they talk about this offer immunity. Only one of you is going to get it all along this time you have When Denise speaks about finally attorney Doug Roboport believing her story. That's what you have for an extended period of time. Only family believes your story. Almost everyone else believes that this is a concocted story, don't they.
Yeah, we're fortunate that we have the financial means to hire lawyers like Doug Rappaport and Dan Russo and Amy Morton. We spent about one hundred and forty thousand dollars on criminal defense attorneys and we weren't even charged with the crime.
Fortunately for us, they really advocate for us and believed our account, partly because if I are, details of the home invasion matched perfectly, and for two people that come up with that crazy of a story that matches would be almost impossible, and that's something law enforcement should have known as well. So during this time we had a great safety unit as far as our family and our close friends who believed us, but otherwise our jobs were
looking to fire us. We kind of worked this because the trauma, but even if we wanted to, we weren't able to, and we just were kind of nomad, just with each other and our family in real desperate situation, trying to figure out how we're ever going to get out of this deep and dark hole.
How did the attorney wrap for fair with the FDI making the complaint about Dave Seesma and this magnificent conflict of interest being able to interview Denise made. What comes of this investigation that he tries to bring to the FBI to investigate their own.
Really nothing comes of it. That was you know, the difficult part about all of this is you can kind of wrap your head around people who are motivated to cause harm and terrorize, but you think, you know, there's law enforcement that's going to help help you that you can turn to and just step by step, every bit of the way, it was just one blow after another after another. It's just this great disappointment, especially knowing how
good law enforcement can be. You know, Aaron's brothers an FBI agent, and his colleagues that he work with, you know, they do incredible work and they're really intelligent, and so it was just deeply disappointing that that all of this occurred and then there's no accountability. There was nothing changed.
It was the same investigators on the case throughout, and so we as victims who have really no power to investigate, are just sitting there going Okay, I guess this is what we're this is what we're stuck with.
Doing this. What is the status of your relationship. I know that you were separated for a firm amount of time and that you had that difficult conversation before this home invasion ever occurred. What was your relationship like during this ordeal?
I mean, our bond just grew stronger, you know. We our connection when we first met and first started hanging out was just it was instant. I mean, if you think of what a soulmate is and could be, I've we've felt that with each other, you know. So we are perhaps in a rare position of going through a trauma like this where we were able to work through it.
And a big part of that, too, is that we never blamed each other for any of it, and we've have a unique understanding for what each other is going through as far as PTSD and you know, having our names and reputations being dragged through the mud. We also have really strong, you know, family support and a core group of friends that I think all of that combined helped help strengthen our relationship.
Let's talk about this home invasion in South Lake Tahoe. Give us some of the details that you were well, that you were aware of. This is in Dublin, California.
Then, so, in the middle of the night, a intruder came into house, the family's home in Dublin and had a similar m o of wakem to go with a red laser site. This time, however, the intruder said your daughter is safe to the father and was close enough that the father decided to fight back, where in our scenario the kidnappers that zip tied on the bed instead
ten to fifteen feet away. During that struggle, the wife was able to get her phone and call nine one one, and the home invader fled, but he left his personal cell phone, which the police were able to track to Matthew Moeller and then Ki Molar and South Lake Tahoe, which matched the location of where Denise was held. And in South Lake Tahoe they found evidence that connected him
to our crime as well. So my laptop was there Denise's The address where the ki nappers dropped Denise off was in the cards jup yet and they eventually found the recordings of the sexual assault at in at South Lake Tahoe home.
What was the conversation like, once the FBI realized that what you would both had said was the absolute truth, what was that conversation? Like?
The FBI didn't contact us til about three weeks after this Dublin evasion, and it was I think more than a week after they knew that Moeller had was connected to our crime. They basically told us that they ran with this case and there was no way to solve it. We found out later that the knappers had been calling my phone and they had tried to angulate these three phone calls to South Lake Tahoe within two hundred square meters of the house. So they had its evidence for
months and that on it and did nothing. And unfortunately, there haven't been accountability or their you know, the conflict of interest and their sheer lack of basic police work. And so we're as these said, we were left with the same vestigators who said I killed her, and the same bestgaters of the hoaster, and they haven't they really haven't course corrected.
What was the media response to this new information clashed with the information that they've been releasing for all this time.
Well, you know, for the most part, the media coverage changed in our favor Uh, and I mean, I don't know. I guess in a way, it was a lot of blame to the Valeo police. How could they have messed this up? There was also a lot of responsibility from the media that they could have asked the appropriate questions early on and could have minimized some of the the trauma that we had gone through. But at least now things were shifted in our favor and the truth was out.
Yet still, you know, you plant that seed of doubt, and there's certain people in the public that still blamed us, and in particular me, you know, thought I might have still been involved in some way, or said that I was shady, or you know, still reached out and sent hateful messages. In time, that's gotten less and less, But yeah, I mean there's still people who refused to accept that they were wrong about their belief of us.
Our civil attorneys ascribed to a verbal tattoo, and I think that's an accurate portrayal of what happened.
Before. We talk about that civil action, legal action. What about Matthew Mahler's plea deal? What about his legal situation? How was it dealt with?
So he played guilty to federal crime and has received a forty year sentence. Currently, he's also being charge at the state level, which is a pending case. I think for us, we know that he is a dangerous individual or we just don't want him to hurt anyone else. Again, maybe more importantly, we were able to speak at the victim statement and actually be able to have our voices heard through us, not through our attorneys or through the media.
And that was an empowering situation. And let Jeans talked about her experience during a victim statement.
I mean for me to finally look, you know, my captor and rapist and the eye, uh, because anytime I was with him, I was blindfolded, and you know, he did what he wanted with my body in my life. So for me to see him face to face and have him really see me, and it was empowering. And not only him, but we had you know, the whole courtroom was full of our friends and our family, and then also a lot of reporters who had initially been reporting the lives that the police gave. So it was
helpful to to have everyone see ces. You know, we weren't just a story or a headline. We're real people that were suffering.
What about the idea of the civil of a civil lawsuit? Tell us about that?
So we end up doing the City of Lejo and Detective Muttern and King Park and the Chief for defamation and false imprisonment, whether violation due process. You know, Fortunately, we would like to have seen some sort of change within this department, but they haven't shown any interest in policing themselves or holding themselves accountable, and you know, public attention and civil lawsuits are a way to create pressure
and change. We were able to reach a settlement for two point five million with the city in twenty eighteen. But even during this civil process that the Layhill kept doubling down on that it was just too bizarre of a story to believed, or what they said, Denisan act like a victim, despite saying depositions that they're trained that no victims act the same, and the detective Monster lies in a foreign statement as well, saying that he refused to
talk to police, which was categorically untrue. So they they have continued this lack of accountability, that the city councils continue to inflate and protect them, and unfortunately that the lay Hill police have a terrible relationship with the community and poor track record, and we're helping, maybe even pressure from the book and that they will make something improved because the community deserves better and the good officers within there and that department deserved better as well.
How did they explain that Dave Sesma was able to question denise? Did they ever answer that?
All right? No? And on top of that, my brother had sent did an internal affairs report and the response was that agent Sesma just close his relationship with the prosecutor, and the prosecutor deemed it wasn't important, even though that is not actually the process. Jess No needed to actually disclose it to supervisor, although he is an acting supervisor for his regional agency at the time, so we don't know if he We haven't been shown that he disclosed
it in a sort of proper manner. And unfortunately he's also been promoted during this time period as well.
Jus wow, was there any official word from Jennifer about any of this? No.
I think some of the problems are what happens our case is where there's a lot of questions with how answers. That's not unique to victims. You know, many people have the trauma happened to them, and then you can't find as desperate as you want to find answers, you're not going to be there. So for us, it's more about moving forward with the pillars that are important to us, and that would be our relationship. We were married in
twenty eighteen. We have a beautiful daughter who was born exactly five years to the day of Denise's release, and we're able to get back to being physical therapists and helping people, which is hard of reason why we fell in love with each other in the first place. And we're hoping that the book will be another way to help at larger scale.
And what about your work at this Kaiser clinic and what about the job that you were about to start and again as a therapist, Denise? What about that work? What about that future?
Yeah?
I mean I was at Kaiser in Balletje to specialize in the neurological population. So I was there for a nine month residency and that was literally just finishing up that week that I was kidnapped. But there was a job opening in a nearby town that I could potentially transfer to and stay in the Kaiser system because there was also another fellowship of training that was going to be a year and a half long that I was
applying to as well. So basically all, you know, everything just went away and I was eventually able to There was one exam left for the residency I was in. I was finally able to schedule it, but I wasn't allowed to go into the hospital to take it. I took it out in essentially a trailer next to the hospital, but I completed it. It took me a year to build up the courage to try to start working again. I was afraid that people would see me as a liar and hoaxter and wouldn't trust me with their care.
You know, we literally put our hands on people to help promote healing and rehabilitation, and who would trust me if they think of me like that? But you know, we both were able to to start working in a different way, and we moved out of town and so now we're back to doing what we love. And in some ways, the trauma, you know, the kidnapping and the
assaults have helped me dive deeper with some of my patients. Uh, not only the physical trauma that they endure, but the emotional psychological component and how that affects the body.
And what is the message that you have both of you, Aaron and Denise, For people that read this book, what is the overall message? What would you like to impart the people that read this book.
I think above anything, there is hope, you know, I mean, you could go through the unimaginable where you know you're dealing with trauma and at some points you feel like, I mean, I'm never going to get past us, this is hopeless. There is still hope. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. And if you're still struggling, I think us sharing our story and hearing from other survivors, it really does help give you strength to keep fighting.
Anything that you would like to impart Aaron from this story.
Yeah, the other part of what we liked why we told it from our point of view, from this point view myself, to walk people through our experience as victims
and as we say, transition to survivors. I hope as people read this book, maybe they before they pause a break on rushing to judgment when they see a story or they see a headline, because you don't really know the whole story, and I think there's an opportunity now with social media to send real hurt and hate to people with very little consequences, with the person typing out, who's going through something bad? And you don't need to throw stones. It's okay to they I don't know, it's
okay to pause. And we're hoping that we provide a little empathy and compassion to this world through by sharing our experience.
Yes, it certainly is a fantastic example of again not rushing to judgment, especially considering this dramatic end to the story with the smaller being convicted and having all this evidence right at that crime scene too. It really must have been hard for you to realize that it took that that event, It took that extraordinary effort and that extraordinary event to be able to prove your innocence.
Finally, Yeah, we're in many ways, we're actually the fortunate ones. They're estimated over two hundred thousand innocent people in prison in the US system. There are many mythcaracters of justice. We were fortunate that ours actually was turned around within months and seven years or decades orherever. But I did take a massive break and some luck and quality police work from Dublin and from detective misty and without her
our I don't know where we would be. And uh, they're awful police work by the FBI and Lahook Police, but on Yasta and there's great work by Detective Carolussu And she is a real hero of ours and was at our wedding and at our baby shower and we're very lucky to have her in our lives.
Yeah, incredible, You right too, that she wasn't she was a brand new detective, wasn't even going to be a detective to the next day, So it was incredible the extraordinary effort that she did do in this case. Yeah.
Absolutely.
I want to thank you both for coming on and talking about victim F from crime Victims to suspects to survivors. Can you tell us if there's a Facebook page or where they might find out more information about this book and this case.
Yeah, there's a Facebook page under the same title of victim F and they also find more about us and where to perch the book at victimth dot com.
Yes, thank you so much, Denise Huskins and Aaron Quinn. This has been extraordinarily compelling interview. Thank you so much. Victim F from crime Victims to suspects to survivors Denise Huskins and Aaron Quinn. Thank you so much for this interview and you have a great evening. Good night, thank you, thank you, thank you. Good night.